[LAD] palm pre [was Re: [ANNOUNCE] Safe real-time on thedesktop by default; Desktop/audio RT developers, read this!]

Wed Jun 24 12:05:36 UTC 2009

I dunno if you're a coder too, but those words you wrote are the words 
of a user :).

By the way I'm a fan of extremes, I like KDE (only with KWin) ex 3.5.9 
and Ion2, but actually I'm running GNOME and this also has is advantages 
and disadvantages.

Do you agree that a dual or multi boot might be the best solution to fit 
to all needs?

I would interpret your mail this way. You didn't blame any sound server, 
but you make out for which usage you are fine with which sound server. 
Am I wrong?

The 'palm pre' thread is uncoupled from the origin thread, that's why I 
guess it's okay to speak about user needs here, nobody will disturb any 
technical expert knowledge discussion at the original thread.

By the way, an rt-audio distro like 64 Studio often works OOB for 
rt-audio too, not for my hardware, but it is made to fit to many 
hardware combinations.

Thank you for reporting your experiences.

Cheers,
Ralf

James Warden wrote:
> Just a small comment, and then I shut up:
>
> the great thing about linux is its flexibility. I have a few boxes at home doing different things:
> - a multimedia server based on mythtv, NFS and samba
> - a powerful DAW running an RT patched kernel
> - a couple of laptops for AOB (any other business)
>
> For the AOB laptops, it was nice not to do anything once I installed the distro. Things worked OOB, and that was it.
>
> For the DAW or multimedia server, that was another story ... but simply because customized systems require, well, customization. The all-in-one distro is and I think will remain a utopia. 
>
> This said, I recently upgraded my DAW to KDE 4.2 (was 3.5.9 before upgrade) and that automatically installed pulseaudio. I had already fiddled around with pulseaudio about a year ago due to my using VirtualBox (another story). I found pulse's features kinda cool and I quickly understood it was not meant as a replacement or alternative to Jack.  
>
> As of today, my DAW has pulseaudio installed. But all I had to do was:
> - open the KDE system settings 
> - disable ALL sound stuff I could find
>
> So basically, KDE offered me the possibility to not interact at all with the sound layer. It was obviously not a default setting but it was just a few clicks away.
>
> So let me be straight: it should remain like that. 
>
> On average, a user installing e.g. KDE will expect desktop sounds to work (sound notifications, mp3 players, DVD playback, what-not). That's not what I want in my DAW at all but being myself an old linux "power user", I knew that it would do that (experience with artsd). I mean,  how could the KDE installation possibly know that it was to be running on a DAW ?! :D 
> I am glad the desktop config interface allowed me to configure it the way I wanted (no extra special services in the background, no sound system other than what I want for my DAW).  
>
> Now, if things were to change (no longer the possibility to configure e.g. KDE the way I want), I would definitely feel pissed-off and complain on some mailing lists. But let's be also clear: pulseaudio is definitely NOT the worst things that could happen. It works fine on my laptops, I don't need to do anything about it and that's what it was intended for: a generic and multifeatured desktop sound system. But desktops are also used in other contexts (e.g. DAW) and it would really be wise to keep desktop components _optional_ (not only sound system but also visual effects, etc). That's just simple wisdom and i suggest we keep it that way. The same applies to jack. It is a highly specialized tool and should remain so.
>
>
> OK, time to disappear from this discussion.
>
> Cheers,
> J.
>
>
> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf at alice-dsl.net> wrote:
>
>   
>> From: Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf at alice-dsl.net>
>> Subject: Re: [LAD] palm pre [was Re: [ANNOUNCE] Safe real-time on thedesktop by default; Desktop/audio RT developers, read this!]
>> To: "james morris" <james at jwm-art.net>
>> Cc: linux-audio-dev at lists.linuxaudio.org
>> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 6:45 AM
>> james morris wrote:
>>     
>>> On 24/6/2009, "Patrick Shirkey" <pshirkey at boosthardware.com>
>>>       
>> wrote:
>>     
>>>    
>>>       
>>>> It would be helpful if things that could make a
>>>>         
>> big impact will
>>     
>>>> continued to be discussed within the LAD
>>>>         
>> community. However this is a
>>     
>>>> difficult situation. No matter if the discussions
>>>>         
>> are starting prior to
>>     
>>>> implementation or post implementation the general
>>>>         
>> direction of the
>>     
>>>> arguments tend to be quite emotional.
>>>>
>>>> Is it just because audio guys have a bit more
>>>>         
>> artistic temperament than
>>     
>>>> most other developers?
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>> I don't think this adds much to what has been stated
>>>       
>> by Fons and others,
>>     
>>> but perhaps it explains a little?
>>>
>>> I'm not a hardcore audio developer like most of the
>>>       
>> guys here, but I've
>>     
>>> been making audio/music/noise, and coding, since the
>>>       
>> days of 486sx25s
>>     
>>> and windows 3.1. Back then, and for many years after,
>>>       
>> it was a real
>>     
>>> concern to be able to disable as many irrelevant (to
>>>       
>> audio) processes in
>>     
>>> the system as possible (as I'm sure you're aware).
>>>
>>> Now I have a pretty capable system, but when I want to
>>>       
>> run RT audio apps
>>     
>>> I still want to disable as many irrelevant processes
>>>       
>> on the system as I
>>     
>>> can.
>>>
>>> For this reason I really dislike the big monolithic
>>>       
>> desktop environments.
>>     
>>> There are several applications tied into them (some
>>>       
>> serious, plain
>>     
>>> useful, or just fun) which I'd love to have working
>>>       
>> but which force me
>>     
>>> to install all sorts of software I really don't want
>>>       
>> or need - along
>>     
>>> with all sorts of processes running in the
>>>       
>> background.
>>     
>>> So it feels a bit freedom eroding. The choice seems to
>>>       
>> be between a
>>     
>>> system which 'just works' but which wastes system
>>>       
>> resources on things
>>     
>>> I don't want, or a system which I have to spend hours
>>>       
>> setting up,
>>     
>>> constantly have to deal with the idiosyncrasies of,
>>>       
>> but which is as fast
>>     
>>> and powerful as it could be.
>>>
>>> The notions of old, to raise the potential for system
>>>       
>> resources to be
>>     
>>> only used for the job at hand (ie audio) are still
>>>       
>> strongly rooted and
>>     
>>> people don't like it when they feel their freedom to
>>>       
>> use systems in
>>     
>>> this way is threatened by forcing them to install
>>>       
>> software and have
>>     
>>> running processes they don't want.
>>>
>>> James.
>>>       
>> I guess (if needed) separating rt and bread-and-butter
>> Linux by having a 
>> dual-boot is an acceptable solution. A user with nearly no
>> knowledge 
>> could install a comfortable distro for the everyday desktop
>> environment 
>> and another for real-time usage. Even if somebody don't
>> have any trouble 
>> with his Linux install, he might wish to have a safe Linux
>> for 
>> productions and another Linux to have fun and fun sometimes
>> means to 
>> risk things, you won't risk for a installation that needs
>> to be stable 
>> all the time, that's why a dual-boot has also an advantage,
>> if there 
>> will be a joint venture for distro/ desktop developers and
>> rt 
>> hardliners. I have a bad mobo and for rt e.g. I need to set
>> irq priority 
>> for especially the one port where the MIDI is connected to.
>> I don't 
>> think things like that should be done by the desktop
>> environment. This 
>> seems to be impossible.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux-audio-dev mailing list
>> Linux-audio-dev at lists.linuxaudio.org
>> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>>
>>     
>
>
>       
> _______________________________________________
> Linux-audio-dev mailing list
> Linux-audio-dev at lists.linuxaudio.org
> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
>
>   

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