From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Apr 1 00:37:05 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2014 17:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Filter arrangement - was- Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140331092227.GA31837@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140331092227.GA31837@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > Parallel arrangements have their place, e.g. for multiband > compressors used for mastering. Regarding these you should > be aware that such processing makes nonsense of whatever > careful EQ you have done before. Multiband compression > amounts an EQ that is changing all the time, and you usually > have no idea of what exactly it is doing. If the mixing and > mastering are done by the same person (as they usually are > in our context), everything done in mastering could have > been done better during the mix, e.g. by compressing tracks > instead of the mix. I have found this out from experience (already)... It didn't take very long :) The good thing is that the project I wrecked with overall changes has enough other defects in it to make it worth while redoing from scratch. I am looking forward to trying out Ardour 3 to do drum tracks from pads (my only choice right now). While I have been playing for a long time, my experience in recording is very recent. The cure is practice. I was quite a fan of midi when all I had was a few tracks of audio (I started on 4 and 8 track) and putting TC on one track allowed me to add lots of other tracks with a sequencer. It was fun, but I was just playing around. I am more serious now, if not truely professional. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 01:01:53 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 03:01:53 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Happy birthday Fons :) - Was: Filter arrangement - was- Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140331213224.GA18937@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140331092227.GA31837@linuxaudio.org> <1396266539.568.3.camel@archlinux> <20140331143323.GD21111@linuxaudio.org> <20140331192019.54d4e3ab@debian> <20140331213224.GA18937@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1396314113.2845.52.camel@archlinux> All the best! Ralf From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 01:09:28 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 03:09:28 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <201403311003.26792.zotz@100jamz.com> <20140331194945.2d100826@debian> Message-ID: <1396314568.2845.58.camel@archlinux> On Mon, 2014-03-31 at 23:15 +0400, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > I, however, recognize your scenario all too well. There's no night > where I do not go to sleep without praying to lord to deliver me from > the dark ages of linux audio where I needed to do extra jack > connection plumbing and manually restoring presets :) Full ACK :) I write scripts to start my sessions, but there anyway is the need to do a few settings manually after running the scripts :(. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 01:18:12 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 03:18:12 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140331210328.GA5080@gjcp.net> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <201403311003.26792.zotz@100jamz.com> <20140331194945.2d100826@debian> <20140331210328.GA5080@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <1396315092.2845.64.camel@archlinux> On Mon, 2014-03-31 at 22:03 +0100, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > This is exactly why I gave up using computers for music. A friend of me broke a window, by kicking his Apple out. I liked my C64 and Atari ST + click sync (C64) and SMPTE sync (Ataris ST) + analog gear for audio recordings. A demagnetiser and a little bit of alcohol was needed to maintain the analog gear. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 01:53:49 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 03:53:49 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Filter arrangement - was- Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <20140331092227.GA31837@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1396317229.2845.76.camel@archlinux> On Mon, 2014-03-31 at 17:37 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > multiband compressors used for mastering > I have found this out from experience (already) :) However, multiband compressor usage for the stereo sum isn't the enemy, it's nice when producing pop music and hard rock. _But_ indeed good usage of EQs for the tracks (even without compression at this stage) makes a stereo sum compressor useless and the result is much more satisfying. As Fons already pointed out, you don't know what's going on, you don't have control about it, OTOH I've seen a lot of mastering folks taking drugs at the wrong time, at some point even humans doing a good EQ job for the tracks are as useful/useless as a multiband compressor is for the stereo sum. From simonzwise at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 02:19:22 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 13:19:22 +1100 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140331132206.GA11734@tal> References: <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <533957AF.3040503@woh.rr.com> <1396268486.568.22.camel@archlinux> <20140331132206.GA11734@tal> Message-ID: <533A222A.5050106@gmail.com> On 01/04/14 00:22, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 02:21:26PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> Music has less to do with the skills to use a computer or the skills >> about music theory and skills to play an instrument. Creativity is >> independent of those skills. Creativity, tools and toolmaking are tied very closely together. You want to make stuff (anything ... music, a good meal, a picture ...) you'll most probably want tools and then want to learn how to use them well. And a bit of theory, some understanding of the medium you are using, doesn't hurt either. Finally to communicate with others there is the matter of language, a shared vocabulary, a shared set of references, a body of work already in existence to build on. Understanding and using this is also part of theory. Simon. From simonzwise at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 02:25:19 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 13:25:19 +1100 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <533A238F.8000104@gmail.com> On 01/04/14 01:48, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 6:33 PM, James Harkins wrote: > >> Well, in that case, it's a good thing I didn't read your message before I >> started... making music with SuperCollider tonight :-p This one's in 4/4 >> time, even. > > Er, isn't it just a matter of taste? :) > > Gordon basically summarized (in a rather arguable manner) a point that > we've discussed time and time again: if Linux audio is for geeks or > for full-time musicians. and effectively asserted that there is no overlap. That assertion is bullshit. Simon From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 02:42:13 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 04:42:13 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533A222A.5050106@gmail.com> References: <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <533957AF.3040503@woh.rr.com> <1396268486.568.22.camel@archlinux> <20140331132206.GA11734@tal> <533A222A.5050106@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1396320133.2845.93.camel@archlinux> On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 13:19 +1100, Simon Wise wrote: > On 01/04/14 00:22, Chris Bannister wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 02:21:26PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >> Music has less to do with the skills to use a computer or the skills > >> about music theory and skills to play an instrument. Creativity is > >> independent of those skills. > > Creativity, tools and toolmaking are tied very closely together. You want to > make stuff (anything ... music, a good meal, a picture ...) you'll most probably > want tools and then want to learn how to use them well. And a bit of theory, > some understanding of the medium you are using, doesn't hurt either. Finally to > communicate with others there is the matter of language, a shared vocabulary, a > shared set of references, a body of work already in existence to build on. > Understanding and using this is also part of theory. There's the need to distinguish what abilities are needed at what stage of _making_ music. You can't take drugs when doing a mastering, but drugs might have pleasant results when making pop/rock music, likely bad results for classic music. Regarding to the used vocabulary, did I mention that I like Spencer Tracy films? "Inherit the Wind", OWTTE "use that kind of language people are intuitive able to understand correctly". IOW take care about the audience. "Tracy drank heavily during his years with Fox, and gained a reputation as an alcoholic." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spencer_Tracy Seemingly he used drugs at the right time, but not when doing his job. Resume: What is the target group? What and how important is your message assumed there should be a message? When producing your _own_ music you can do what ever you want to do, but when recording and mastering the art of somebody else you need to care about the intention of this/those artist/s. There isn't a reference! You need to be empathetic! From simonzwise at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 02:48:52 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 13:48:52 +1100 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396320133.2845.93.camel@archlinux> References: <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <533957AF.3040503@woh.rr.com> <1396268486.568.22.camel@archlinux> <20140331132206.GA11734@tal> <533A222A.5050106@gmail.com> <1396320133.2845.93.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <533A2914.9070505@gmail.com> On 01/04/14 13:42, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Resume: What is the target group? What and how important is your message > assumed there should be a message? if you are making it for someone else to listen to, you are saying something, even if without intention because you do not understand what it is you are saying. if you are not making it for someone else to listen to, I'm not convinced it is music ... but that is much more debatable, and that debate is only about the definition we are using for words like art and music. Simon From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 02:59:41 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 04:59:41 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [off-list] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533A2914.9070505@gmail.com> References: <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <533957AF.3040503@woh.rr.com> <1396268486.568.22.camel@archlinux> <20140331132206.GA11734@tal> <533A222A.5050106@gmail.com> <1396320133.2845.93.camel@archlinux> <533A2914.9070505@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1396321181.2845.101.camel@archlinux> On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 13:48 +1100, Simon Wise wrote: > if you are not making it for someone else to listen to, I'm not > convinced it is music ... but that is much more debatable, and that > debate is only about the definition we are using for words like art > and music. Good point! Often in my life I made/produced music just for myself, indeed, it perhaps isn't music by definition. When doing a job as engineer, I seldom did it just for the money only, usually I liked the artwork of the people I recorded. When you get paid to compose, you're trapped ;) ... what to do is decided by pure and clean ambivalence. From cbannister at slingshot.co.nz Tue Apr 1 03:02:41 2014 From: cbannister at slingshot.co.nz (Chris Bannister) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 16:02:41 +1300 Subject: [LAU] Filter arrangement - was- Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140331192019.54d4e3ab@debian> References: <20140331092227.GA31837@linuxaudio.org> <1396266539.568.3.camel@archlinux> <20140331143323.GD21111@linuxaudio.org> <20140331192019.54d4e3ab@debian> Message-ID: <20140401030240.GC25733@tal> On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 07:20:19PM +0100, Will Godfrey wrote: > On Mon, 31 Mar 2014 14:33:23 +0000 > Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 01:48:59PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > > > J?rn, Fons, was there the need to reply detailed today? Tomorrow is the > > > first of April and it would have been nice to wait with detailed > > > explanations until tomorrow and to correct them the day after tomorrow. > > > > Because tomorrow is my birthday, but of course nobody will believe that. > > > > Ciao, > > > But were you born before midday? :) I think that's a myth, perpetuated by teachers so that they didn't have to deal with childish pranks for the whole day, after all it is called April Fools Day not April Fools morning. Also you have time zone differences to consider. BTW, your shoe laces are undone! -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 03:03:55 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 05:03:55 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [off-list] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396321181.2845.101.camel@archlinux> References: <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <533957AF.3040503@woh.rr.com> <1396268486.568.22.camel@archlinux> <20140331132206.GA11734@tal> <533A222A.5050106@gmail.com> <1396320133.2845.93.camel@archlinux> <533A2914.9070505@gmail.com> <1396321181.2845.101.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <1396321435.2845.104.camel@archlinux> Regarding to the [off-list], my apologise, it was well-intentioned to sent it to the list, but my first thought was to sent it off-list. From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Tue Apr 1 06:56:43 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 09:56:43 +0300 Subject: [LAU] JACK on PicUntu devices (mini-pcs) In-Reply-To: References: <51489af29fbe6345d1d5864d42dea53b.squirrel@ssl.ovenwerks.net> Message-ID: What kinds of buffer/period size settings have you panda-people been able to achieve on your systems? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lorenzofsutton at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 11:19:10 2014 From: lorenzofsutton at gmail.com (Lorenzo Sutton) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 13:19:10 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <201403311003.26792.zotz@100jamz.com> Message-ID: <533AA0AE.60501@gmail.com> On 31/03/2014 16:23, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > Make a simple test. Try doing the most basic thing in existing DAWs on > Linux, including Bitwig -- getting sound out of a MIDI track -- Aren't DAWs supposed to be Digital Audio Workstations, i.e. dealing with digital audio material? I guess you mean a Midi Sequencer... MIDI is just a communication protocol to exchange 'musically-meaningful' data between digital instruments, thus it makes sense that you don't play it out of the box. Anyway... and > count steps, then multiply it by 20 tracks to get a better idea of > boring work you need to do every time (Hint: A3 will win, because I > specifically bugged Paul about it). With e.g. Rosegarden + Qsynth: [*] 1. In qsynth select a GM compatible (or GS) SoundFont (e.g. Fluidsynth one available on most major distros) 2a. Connect Roesegarden's default midi out to Qsynth's midi in [**] 2b. Connect Qsynth audio out to your system out device input in jack [***] 3. In Rosegarden press play button. 4. Enjoy your MIDI-sounding masterpiece :-) Ciao Lorenzo. [*] Assuming JACK is running, which is a precondition for the two software to be running. [**] Assuming the default midi out for individual tracks hasn't explicitly been changed to something else, e.g. a softsynth. But by default Rosegarden will use 'General Midi out' for new tracks or for imported midi files [***] Qsynth can actually be configured to autoconnect to jack Output. In this case this passage isn't necessary From pshirkey at boosthardware.com Tue Apr 1 13:24:02 2014 From: pshirkey at boosthardware.com (Patrick Shirkey) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 00:24:02 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LAU] music from image metadata In-Reply-To: <5339EF77.80504@residuum.org> References: <55034.86.107.254.57.1396257066.squirrel@boosthardware.com> <5339EF77.80504@residuum.org> Message-ID: <52961.86.107.254.57.1396358642.squirrel@boosthardware.com> On Tue, April 1, 2014 9:43 am, Thomas Mayer wrote: > Hi, > > On 31.03.2014 11:11, Patrick Shirkey wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Can anyone think of a way to automate the creation of a music track from >> the metadata embedded in an image track? > > I haven't worked with metadata yet, but did some experiments in > sonification. Here is what I would do: > > Analyse the format of EXIF data. What is actually encoded? Apparently it is a selfie taken by one of the passengers on flight 370. So it appears to be someone sitting in a dark room wearing a black hood over their head. > What is > varying from image to image, camera to camera? Try to get a fair sample > size to see the data. > > Try to convert the data to numbers, that can be interpreted as notes, > frequency, duration, volume. If not all parameters can be set, then use > some sane defaults. > > My guess is, that there is to little data to really interpret in EXIF, > and that data is to disparate to create a melody: > I suppose I could translate it into ascii and then use that. I vaguely recall that someone has written an ascii to audio tool. However I am wondering if anyone knows of a tool to translate binary metadata into audio. The json parser you wrote looks interesting but I'm thinking of the something like the opposite of synaetheasia which turns audio into visual data. > To take the example from Wikipedia > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchangeable_image_file_format#Example), > how many notes can you create from the data to create a melody using an > algorithm, that you can explain to users in just a few sentences? > > If not all data can be made to create a melody, then create one note > from each image and use series of images, a slideshow of sorts. > > You could combine that with converting the images to sound, interpreting > the y-axis as frequency and x-axis as time, similar to "Sheet music" by > Johannes Kreidler: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdbpJmsaNAw > > An example for Twitter sonification is included in my Pd extension > PuREST JSON: http://ix.residuum.org/pd/purest_json.html > > Here's an example, that uses the returned data from a search, including > a description on the algorithm to generate the sound: > https://soundcloud.com/residuum/twitter-sonification > It's an interesting piece. Quite soothing in it's own way. Did you select specific instruments/noises or did you let it automate that process too? Do you have others in that style? -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd From jamshark70 at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 13:40:27 2014 From: jamshark70 at gmail.com (James Harkins) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 13:40:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> Message-ID: Alexandre Prokoudine writes: > > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 6:33 PM, James Harkins wrote: > > > Well, in that case, it's a good thing I didn't read your message before I > > started... making music with SuperCollider tonight :-p This one's in 4/4 > > time, even. > > Er, isn't it just a matter of taste? :) > > Gordon basically summarized (in a rather arguable manner) a point that > we've discussed time and time again: if Linux audio is for geeks or > for full-time musicians. I don't see it. Surely, if he had wanted to make that point, he could have said it plainly? I'm interested in music that seems like it's repeating but doesn't actually repeat loops exactly. Even when I was using DAWs, I was doing that (painfully). In SC, instead of tweaking MIDI notes and rhythms by hand, I can develop constraints that generate notes and rhythms that always vary, but maintain some sense of coherence. Like, the other night I was fixing some mistakes in a chord player that: - Chooses 16th-note time points within the bar, according to some rules that make it less likely to have chords in successive 16ths; - Chooses the top note of the chord mainly by stepwise motion; - Weights the remaining scale degrees to have a higher probability of choosing the third and fifth above the current bass note, medium probability of the seventh and ninth, and lower probability of the fourth and sixth (since these can change the chord function). The resulting chords actually do sound like they fit in the harmonic context, and it can keep going like that, without ever looping. That's one way that SC is the best tool for me to make the kinds of evolving processes I like to hear. The point being that this sort of geekery a/ comes directly from a musical impulse (I can hear if the implementation isn't doing what I heard in my head) and b/ is grounded in a musical understanding of harmony (in fact, it models part of my thought process when I'm writing harmony by hand). But never mind that -- if I were writing dots on paper and debating whether to use interlocking woodwind voicing or not, THAT sort of geekery would be perfectly musical, but the fact that this particular music geekery is in SC means that it's... what was the phrase? "Autistic savant computer genius" territory. I don't know Bitwig, so I have no basis to evaluate Robin's assertion that it's a "toy." If he had said DAWs are toys compared to SC, I'd call that idiotic -- but he said that of only one DAW which is relatively new and may not be full-featured yet. I understand the wish to evangelize on behalf of under-appreciated software (you should see me rub LilyPond in Finale users' noses), but I would not claim SC to be inherently better than other electronic music workflows (e.g. DAWs). But to claim, as Gordon did, that there is not even one single musical impulse for which a domain-specific programming language is an appropriate tool? Just... wow, seriously? Oh! I just remembered, it's April 1. Silly me, Gordon must have been joking! Carry on, then. hjh From alexandre.prokoudine at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 13:56:48 2014 From: alexandre.prokoudine at gmail.com (Alexandre Prokoudine) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 17:56:48 +0400 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533AA0AE.60501@gmail.com> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <201403311003.26792.zotz@100jamz.com> <533AA0AE.60501@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: >> Make a simple test. Try doing the most basic thing in existing DAWs on >> Linux, including Bitwig -- getting sound out of a MIDI track -- > > Aren't DAWs supposed to be Digital Audio Workstations, i.e. dealing with > digital audio material? I guess you mean a Midi Sequencer... Aren't trains supposed to be steam-powered? :) > MIDI is just a communication protocol to exchange 'musically-meaningful' > data between digital instruments, thus it makes sense that you don't play it > out of the box. It does make sense? Oh, you live and learn :) >> count steps, then multiply it by 20 tracks to get a better idea of >> boring work you need to do every time (Hint: A3 will win, because I >> specifically bugged Paul about it). > > > With e.g. Rosegarden + Qsynth: [*] > > 1. In qsynth select a GM compatible (or GS) SoundFont (e.g. Fluidsynth one > available on most major distros) > 2a. Connect Roesegarden's default midi out to Qsynth's midi in [**] > 2b. Connect Qsynth audio out to your system out device input in jack [***] > 3. In Rosegarden press play button. > 4. Enjoy your MIDI-sounding masterpiece :-) > > Ciao > Lorenzo. > [*] Assuming JACK is running, which is a precondition for the two software > to be running. > [**] Assuming the default midi out for individual tracks hasn't explicitly > been changed to something else, e.g. a softsynth. But by default Rosegarden > will use 'General Midi out' for new tracks or for imported midi files > [***] Qsynth can actually be configured to autoconnect to jack Output. In > this case this passage isn't necessary Yes, this is what I more or less expected to read :) Alexandre From zotz at 100jamz.com Tue Apr 1 14:15:53 2014 From: zotz at 100jamz.com (drew Roberts) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 10:15:53 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Filter arrangement - was- Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140401030240.GC25733@tal> References: <20140331192019.54d4e3ab@debian> <20140401030240.GC25733@tal> Message-ID: <201404011015.54094.zotz@100jamz.com> On Monday 31 March 2014 23:02:41 Chris Bannister wrote: > BTW, your shoe laces are undone! What's that in the corner? -- This is drew's personal email account and is not related to Tribune Radio Ltd. From edogawa at aon.at Tue Apr 1 15:08:28 2014 From: edogawa at aon.at (Edgar Aichinger) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 17:08:28 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331175505.71f4ef69@eeyore> Message-ID: <6559519.Lq3qoXgv71@edhp> Am Montag, 31. M?rz 2014, 12:13:50 schrieb Egor Sanin: > On 3/31/14, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > >> "Someone who makes pleasant sounds in an organized fashion, using > >> basically anything." > > > > Now that's interesting. Why exactly does it need to be pleasant sound, > > and what do you mean by that? Pleasant to whom? > > > > I think my definition would be even more general: "Someone who makes > > sound on purpose." > > Maybe an even more extreme definition is needed: "Someone who makes > > sound." > > On those dreary, sluggish mornings when life forcefully drags you out > from under that impossibly comfortable blanket, the sound of coffee > beens being ground to that perfect consistency, followed by the sound > of water, permeated by live-giving oils and solids, pouring into a cup > is music to my ears. I will say: "Barrista, you are a musician!" https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/42502696/photos/2014-04-01%2017.02.18.jpg That's the perfect occasion to present my niece's laundry artwork ;) Edgar From guido-scholz at gmx.net Tue Apr 1 16:45:55 2014 From: guido-scholz at gmx.net (Guido Scholz) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 18:45:55 +0200 Subject: [LAU] AlsaModularSynth (ams) 2.1.1 released Message-ID: <20140401164555.GA16867@traun.gscholz.bayernline.de> Dear all, AlsaModularSynth (ams) is a MIDI controlled realtime modular synthesizer and effect processor with support for LADSPA and JACK. This is a "my birthday" bug fix release also providing some enhancements: ams-2.1.1 (2014-04-01) Fixed Bugs o Fix crash on loading patches with missing LADSPA libraries. New Features o SIGTERM handler. o NSM support (programmed by Roy Vegard Ovesen) o Mouse hover port highlighting. o Full screen mode view (F11). General Changes o German translation update. o Some internal cleanups. Website: http://alsamodular.sourceforge.net/ Project page: https://sourceforge.net/projects/alsamodular/ Files: https://sourceforge.net/projects/alsamodular/files/ Enjoy! Guido Scholz -- http://wie-im-flug.net/ http://www.lug-burghausen.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From federicogalland at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 18:24:35 2014 From: federicogalland at gmail.com (F Tux) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 15:24:35 -0300 Subject: [LAU] AlsaModularSynth (ams) 2.1.1 released In-Reply-To: <20140401164555.GA16867@traun.gscholz.bayernline.de> References: <20140401164555.GA16867@traun.gscholz.bayernline.de> Message-ID: Good news. This is one of the finest pieces of software we have on linux. Good to know it's active. cheers! On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 1:45 PM, Guido Scholz wrote: > Dear all, > > AlsaModularSynth (ams) is a MIDI controlled realtime modular synthesizer > and effect processor with support for LADSPA and JACK. > > This is a "my birthday" bug fix release also providing some > enhancements: > > > ams-2.1.1 (2014-04-01) > > Fixed Bugs > o Fix crash on loading patches with missing LADSPA libraries. > > New Features > o SIGTERM handler. > o NSM support (programmed by Roy Vegard Ovesen) > o Mouse hover port highlighting. > o Full screen mode view (F11). > > General Changes > o German translation update. > o Some internal cleanups. > > Website: > http://alsamodular.sourceforge.net/ > > Project page: > https://sourceforge.net/projects/alsamodular/ > > Files: > https://sourceforge.net/projects/alsamodular/files/ > > > Enjoy! > > Guido Scholz > > -- > http://wie-im-flug.net/ > http://www.lug-burghausen.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nachoen79 at hotmail.com Tue Apr 1 18:38:56 2014 From: nachoen79 at hotmail.com (Nacho -) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 20:38:56 +0200 Subject: [LAU] AlsaModularSynth (ams) 2.1.1 released In-Reply-To: References: <20140401164555.GA16867@traun.gscholz.bayernline.de>, Message-ID: I agree. I'm a fan of modular synthesizers (analog and virtual) and ams sounds great for me. Thanks a lot! Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 15:24:35 -0300 From: federicogalland at gmail.com To: alsamodular-user at lists.sourceforge.net; linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org; linux-audio-announce at lists.linuxaudio.org Subject: Re: [LAU] AlsaModularSynth (ams) 2.1.1 released Good news. This is one of the finest pieces of software we have on linux. Good to know it's active. cheers! On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 1:45 PM, Guido Scholz wrote: Dear all, AlsaModularSynth (ams) is a MIDI controlled realtime modular synthesizer and effect processor with support for LADSPA and JACK. This is a "my birthday" bug fix release also providing some enhancements: ams-2.1.1 (2014-04-01) Fixed Bugs o Fix crash on loading patches with missing LADSPA libraries. New Features o SIGTERM handler. o NSM support (programmed by Roy Vegard Ovesen) o Mouse hover port highlighting. o Full screen mode view (F11). General Changes o German translation update. o Some internal cleanups. Website: http://alsamodular.sourceforge.net/ Project page: https://sourceforge.net/projects/alsamodular/ Files: https://sourceforge.net/projects/alsamodular/files/ Enjoy! Guido Scholz -- http://wie-im-flug.net/ http://www.lug-burghausen.org/ _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From p8rpp at aol.com Tue Apr 1 19:57:50 2014 From: p8rpp at aol.com (Peter P.) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 15:57:50 -0400 Subject: [LAU] paustretch_stereo.py and 24bit files? Message-ID: <20140401195750.GA965@aol.de> Dear Paul, thank you for the command line version of paulstretch! Iterestingly when I load a 24bit wav file into the GUI version, it gets accepted (at what point in the processing is its wordlength reduce by the way?). When I try to run paulstretch_stereo.py with any non-16bit wav file It refuses to work, giving the error below. Is there a reason the GUI version accepts these files and the python version does not? I need to batch-process a large number of files, so the command-line version would come in super handy. I can always reduce the wordlength of the files myself before the processing, I just thought i'd ask :) Thank you again for these wonderful tools! best, Peter Here's the error: paulstretch_stereo.py -s 4 -w 0.22097 24bitInfile.wav outfile.wav Paul's Extreme Sound Stretch (Paulstretch) - Python version 20110222 by Nasca Octavian PAUL, Targu Mures, Romania stretch amount = 4.0 window size = 0.22097 seconds /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/scipy/io/wavfile.py:147: WavFileWarning: Chunk (non-data) not understood, skipping it. WavFileWarning) Error loading wav: 24bitInfile.wav Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/local/bin/paulstretch_stereo.py", line 149, in (samplerate,smp)=load_wav(args[0]) TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not iterable From zettberlin at linuxuse.de Tue Apr 1 20:29:39 2014 From: zettberlin at linuxuse.de (Hartmut Noack) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 22:29:39 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <533B21B3.4060703@linuxuse.de> Am 31.03.2014 12:38, schrieb Harry van Haaren: > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > >> But Csound and Supercollider are not suitable for making music. They're >> fine if you're some kind of autistic savant computer genius, but utterly >> fucking useless if you're a musician. >> > > Lets keep "Use-case" in mind. > > Bitwig contributes in to certain use case, for making music (geared towards > electronic styles, although not solely those). It works most easy when you are out for 4/4 stuff structured as common in pop. But: 1.) play a few tracks free jazz or 12-tone style compositions and apply some evil fantasy regarding sound and you have something that would be considered "avantgarde" with bitwig the same as easy. 2.) with some basic effort you can turn the clip-matrix into a tool to compose music more or less the same as singular as you can with Csound and the likes Yet to me it is in fact too easy. I'll stick with Ardour3, for I use the in-track editing of regions most of the time and the tracks in Bitwig are meant for recording music played by people, who learned how to stay exactly in sync with a sequencer and to place loops on them that are tailored for regular music. > > CSound & SuperCollider contribute to a very different use-case. > > Linux audio in general does not (IMO) offer a whole lot for the use-case of > electro / radio styles of music, with software geared at ease of production > of such music for musicians. Its a techie environment. > > My 2 cents :) -Harry > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > From zettberlin at linuxuse.de Tue Apr 1 20:42:16 2014 From: zettberlin at linuxuse.de (Hartmut Noack) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 22:42:16 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <533B24A8.1060403@linuxuse.de> Am 31.03.2014 13:26, schrieb Fons Adriaensen: > On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 11:33:02AM +0100, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: > >> On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 12:23:15PM +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: >> >>> only for some kind of music. >>> >>> Bitwig is just a toy compared to for example Csound and Supercollider. >>> >> >> But Csound and Supercollider are not suitable for >> making music. They're fine if you're some kind of >> autistic savant computer genius, but utterly fucking >> useless if you're a musician. > > Define musician. > > The people who are able to use Csound and Supercollider > can do it because they have invested time and effort in > learning to do it. As has anyone who can play whatever > instrument in a passable way (doesn't matter if it is > a violin or a bass guitar). As has a composer who can > arrange a song and write a score for it without needing > a battery of synths to know how it will sound, or to > check if his harmony is right. > > And no matter how you turn it, learning to do something > difficult has beneficial side effects, apart from the > primary result. Completely correct. > > Your 'musician' seems to be one for whom everything > has to be prepared before and easy, so the only thing > that remains to be done is some clicking on a screen. Bitwig allows people, who like to do it that way, to get "good" sounding 4/4-pop very easy, that is true. But to make outstanding music whith it is easy also. Given, the kids know, how to write/play it, they do not need to think much about the interface. The real interesting thing for musicians with an attitude that may recommend Csound or the likes also is hidden in the uncomparable automation-features of Bitwig. These are indeed remarkable, you can automize single notes in MIDI-chords and use most advanced OSC-gear with it.... On the surface it may be toyish and I am sure, it will make bazillions of wannabes produce boring replications of oldish clisches but in the hands of someone, who knows, what he/she is out for it is a powerfull tool also. > And then think him/herself a musician just as the > kids wasting their time with shoot-and-kill games > imagine they are soldiers. > > Your 'musician' is in fact just cannon fodder for > an industry that is about making fast money and little > else. And he wouldn't even be able to exist without > the efforts of those who can rightly call themselves > musicians and be proud of it. > > > Ciao, > From zettberlin at linuxuse.de Tue Apr 1 20:57:44 2014 From: zettberlin at linuxuse.de (Hartmut Noack) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 22:57:44 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> Am 31.03.2014 23:03, schrieb Len Ovens: > > On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >> Music isn't a competition about smartness. > > I think that is what was being said. Music today seems to be no longer > about communicating anything at all... merely soundiing somewhat pleasant, > or showing off some vocal (or other) gymnastics seems to be most of it. I dont see that. I think, that today music is in the best shape I experienced since I taped the radio shows in memoriam John Lennon back in 1981. There are more great recordings released every month than I can listen to let alone buy them and some of the best music I ever heared was made and released by 30-somethings and younger in the last 10 years Rose Kemp made some of the best rock-albums ever, Anthony Haggarty gives Pop a grandezza and intensity that easily challenges the best works by Roxy Music or David Bowie, Arcade Fire, PJ Harvey etc etc etc And the most interesting thing: I wanted to see a avantgarde-noise band by the name of Nadja in Berlin this summer but alas: when I arrived at the club it was sold out. Young people buy tickets to see musicians perform music that is lightyears from any conventional standard. Nadja make even the early Einst?rzende Neubauten sound like top-40 pop and the thrive doing it... If you want to make outstanding music, there never was a better time.... > Actually communicating what is in the artists heart is rare and too hard > for a money making organization to quantify, so they have gone for what is > quantifiable: Take a song that is already a hit, use a producer that we > know makes us money, get someone with a strong voice who can hit all the > notes and doesn't care too much what they sing so long as they get paid. > > "Music" making tools that help that process are going to be what sw makers > are going to look to for their bread and butter. It may be possible to > make actual music with those tools too... > > -- > Len Ovens > www.ovenwerks.net > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 21:00:55 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 23:00:55 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533B21B3.4060703@linuxuse.de> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533B21B3.4060703@linuxuse.de> Message-ID: <1396386055.592.27.camel@archlinux> On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 22:29 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > 1.) play a few tracks free jazz or 12-tone style compositions and apply > some evil fantasy regarding sound and you have something that would be > considered "avantgarde" with bitwig the same as easy. MIDI wasn't made to play Ornette Coleman compositions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNbD1JIH344 And what's called (Free) Jazz nowadays usually has nothing to do with music. They even call Mike Patton a Jazz or at least an avant garde musician, for my taste he isn't a musician at all. MIDI was made to produce pop music and Linux MIDI sequencers have several weak points, that other MIDI sequencers don't have. 12-tone is something different, but you likely will use hard disk recording and less MIDI for 12-tone music too. > It works most easy when you are out for 4/4 stuff structured as common > in pop. And common for many, if not most Jazz compositions too. However, you can use MIDI for 7/8 as good as for 4/4. Perhaps you used the wrong sequencers or I didn't notice that your post is just an April Fools' joke. From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 1 21:02:05 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 21:02:05 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533B24A8.1060403@linuxuse.de> References: <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <533B24A8.1060403@linuxuse.de> Message-ID: <20140401210205.GA27222@linuxaudio.org> On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 10:42:16PM +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > On the surface it may be toyish and I am sure, it will make bazillions > of wannabes produce boring replications of oldish clisches but in the > hands of someone, who knows, what he/she is out for it is a powerfull > tool also. I agree. But then almost everything, in the right hands, has the same potential. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From zettberlin at linuxuse.de Tue Apr 1 21:03:18 2014 From: zettberlin at linuxuse.de (Hartmut Noack) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 23:03:18 +0200 Subject: [LAU] AlsaModularSynth (ams) 2.1.1 released In-Reply-To: <20140401164555.GA16867@traun.gscholz.bayernline.de> References: <20140401164555.GA16867@traun.gscholz.bayernline.de> Message-ID: <533B2996.2090608@linuxuse.de> Am 01.04.2014 18:45, schrieb Guido Scholz: > Dear all, > > AlsaModularSynth (ams) is a MIDI controlled realtime modular synthesizer > and effect processor with support for LADSPA and JACK. > > This is a "my birthday" bug fix release also providing some > enhancements: > > > ams-2.1.1 (2014-04-01) Builds and runs perfectly here(Kubuntu 12.10), thanks a lot for keeping the great beast alive! > > Fixed Bugs > o Fix crash on loading patches with missing LADSPA libraries. > > New Features > o SIGTERM handler. > o NSM support (programmed by Roy Vegard Ovesen) > o Mouse hover port highlighting. > o Full screen mode view (F11). > > General Changes > o German translation update. > o Some internal cleanups. > > Website: > http://alsamodular.sourceforge.net/ > > Project page: > https://sourceforge.net/projects/alsamodular/ > > Files: > https://sourceforge.net/projects/alsamodular/files/ > > > Enjoy! > > Guido Scholz > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > From zettberlin at linuxuse.de Tue Apr 1 21:06:47 2014 From: zettberlin at linuxuse.de (Hartmut Noack) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 23:06:47 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140401210205.GA27222@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <533B24A8.1060403@linuxuse.de> <20140401210205.GA27222@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <533B2A67.6000000@linuxuse.de> Am 01.04.2014 23:02, schrieb Fons Adriaensen: > On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 10:42:16PM +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > >> On the surface it may be toyish and I am sure, it will make bazillions >> of wannabes produce boring replications of oldish clisches but in the >> hands of someone, who knows, what he/she is out for it is a powerfull >> tool also. > > I agree. But then almost everything, in the right hands, > has the same potential. Of course, but there are other "commercial" low-cost "DAWs" out there, that are really dumbed down and support only the combination of "standard" 4/4-blocks to click a "hit" in no-time without effort. Bitwig is not one of those, it has a lot of opportunities under the hood. > > Ciao, > From p8rpp at aol.com Tue Apr 1 21:08:26 2014 From: p8rpp at aol.com (Peter P.) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 17:08:26 -0400 Subject: [LAU] paustretch jack routing, audiofile bug, and truncated outfile Message-ID: <20140401210826.GB965@aol.de> Hi Paul, dear list, in both the debian packed version of paulstretch 2.2-1 and the latest git checkout, its jack version will automatically connect only the first output of the application to all available audio out devices, also for stereo files. When compiled without jack support, its playback at least on my box here doesn't start, throwing: "AInputS::seek 0 0 590601 - possible audiofile bug (it always seeks to the end of the file)" When rendering the stretched soundfile to disk the end of the file gets truncated abruptly. Compared to the python/command-line version of paulstretch it gets cut off 1.463 seconds earlier Is there anything I could do to get around these problems? Thank you Paul and list for providing this beautiful software and a great community support. best, P From zettberlin at linuxuse.de Tue Apr 1 21:09:23 2014 From: zettberlin at linuxuse.de (Hartmut Noack) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 23:09:23 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396386055.592.27.camel@archlinux> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533B21B3.4060703@linuxuse.de> <1396386055.592.27.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <533B2B03.2000607@linuxuse.de> Am 01.04.2014 23:00, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 22:29 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> 1.) play a few tracks free jazz or 12-tone style compositions and >> apply some evil fantasy regarding sound and you have something >> that would be considered "avantgarde" with bitwig the same as >> easy. > > MIDI wasn't made to play Ornette Coleman compositions. That is one of the reasons, the Bitwig-devs hate MIDI from the heart and have replaced it internally with a format based on OSC. In fact, Bitwig is not even a real MIDI-sequencer, it is a OSC-sequencer that can translate incoming MIDI and send/store it. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNbD1JIH344 > > And what's called (Free) Jazz nowadays usually has nothing to do > with music. They even call Mike Patton a Jazz or at least an avant > garde musician, for my taste he isn't a musician at all. MIDI was > made to produce pop music and Linux MIDI sequencers have several > weak points, that other MIDI sequencers don't have. 12-tone is > something different, but you likely will use hard disk recording > and less MIDI for 12-tone music too. > >> It works most easy when you are out for 4/4 stuff structured as >> common in pop. > > And common for many, if not most Jazz compositions too. However, > you can use MIDI for 7/8 as good as for 4/4. Perhaps you used the > wrong sequencers or I didn't notice that your post is just an April > Fools' joke. > > _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user > mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > From thomas at residuum.org Tue Apr 1 21:15:58 2014 From: thomas at residuum.org (Thomas Mayer) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 23:15:58 +0200 Subject: [LAU] music from image metadata In-Reply-To: <52961.86.107.254.57.1396358642.squirrel@boosthardware.com> References: <55034.86.107.254.57.1396257066.squirrel@boosthardware.com> <5339EF77.80504@residuum.org> <52961.86.107.254.57.1396358642.squirrel@boosthardware.com> Message-ID: <533B2C8E.2080709@residuum.org> Hi, On 01.04.2014 15:24, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > I suppose I could translate it into ascii and then use that. I vaguely > recall that someone has written an ascii to audio tool. Use exiftool, as described in one of the links, I have provided. The Debian package is called libimage-exiftool-perl. Running exiftool -a -u -g1 outputs 4kB of text. >> Here's an example, that uses the returned data from a search, including >> a description on the algorithm to generate the sound: >> https://soundcloud.com/residuum/twitter-sonification >> > > It's an interesting piece. Quite soothing in it's own way. Did you select > specific instruments/noises or did you let it automate that process too? Have you read the description for the piece? It is described quite clearly: | This is not musically interesting, but only showing a way to sonify | data, tweets are processed and sonified in the following way: | - content is splitted into ASCII values, and each value creates a | sound of 1/10 s length. | - non-printable characters make a pause, all others are mapped to the | respective MIDI value (! = 1, " = 2, ... A = 33, B = 34, etc.), and | then used to drive a sine oscillator | - the longer the username, the louder the sound. > Do you have others in that style? No, not really. I have made a tool for sonifying stock markets and bitcoin market prices, but nothing fancy and only varying small parameters: http://www.residuum.org/moneytalks.html https://github.com/residuum/Money-Talks https://github.com/residuum/PuRestJson/tree/master/examples Hth, Thomas -- "Chaney was aware that anything, however small, can get the eye of the media if it's repulsive enough." (Robert Anton Wilson - The Universe Next Door) http://www.residuum.org/ From zettberlin at linuxuse.de Tue Apr 1 21:25:08 2014 From: zettberlin at linuxuse.de (Hartmut Noack) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 23:25:08 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396386055.592.27.camel@archlinux> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533B21B3.4060703@linuxuse.de> <1396386055.592.27.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <533B2EB4.9070107@linuxuse.de> Am 01.04.2014 23:00, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 22:29 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> 1.) play a few tracks free jazz or 12-tone style compositions and apply >> some evil fantasy regarding sound and you have something that would be >> considered "avantgarde" with bitwig the same as easy. > > MIDI wasn't made to play Ornette Coleman compositions. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNbD1JIH344 > > And what's called (Free) Jazz nowadays usually has nothing to do with > music. They even call Mike Patton a Jazz or at least an avant garde > musician, for my taste he isn't a musician at all. MIDI was made to > produce pop music and Linux MIDI sequencers have several weak points, > that other MIDI sequencers don't have. 12-tone is something different, > but you likely will use hard disk recording and less MIDI for 12-tone > music too. Of course you would play it and record to hard disk and that was what I meant. Could it be, that some people in fact think, that Bitwig is MIDI-only? It is not even really MIDI but OSC as I mentined before and of course it is a full-featured HD-recorder too (though not as strongly optimized for HD-recording as Ardour) > >> It works most easy when you are out for 4/4 stuff structured as common >> in pop. > > And common for many, if not most Jazz compositions too. However, you can > use MIDI for 7/8 as good as for 4/4. Perhaps you used the wrong > sequencers or I didn't notice that your post is just an April Fools' > joke. Or perhaps you did not have a look upon the program yourself or maybe have lost the ability to thing a bit like Hannibal Lecter. I said it is *most easy* to work with *standard* 4/4 loops in Bitwig, and *not* that that is the only thing you can do. And it is so, because Bitwig comes with a Gigabyte of sampled loops, that are exactly that: standardized 4/4 segments for popular mainstream electronica. > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > From p8rpp at aol.com Tue Apr 1 21:33:19 2014 From: p8rpp at aol.com (Peter P.) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 17:33:19 -0400 Subject: [LAU] paustretch jack routing, audiofile bug, and truncated outfile In-Reply-To: <20140401210826.GB965@aol.de> References: <20140401210826.GB965@aol.de> Message-ID: <20140401213318.GC965@aol.de> * Peter P. [2014-04-01 17:08]: > Hi Paul, dear list, > > in both the debian packed version of paulstretch 2.2-1 and the latest > git checkout, its jack version will automatically connect only the > first output of the application to all available audio out devices, > also for stereo files. > > When compiled without jack support, its playback at least on my box > here doesn't start, throwing: > "AInputS::seek 0 0 590601 - possible audiofile bug (it always seeks to the end of the file)" > > When rendering the stretched soundfile to disk the end of the file > gets truncated abruptly. Compared to the python/command-line version > of paulstretch it gets cut off 1.463 seconds earlier (follow-up to myself). Apparently this is a sampling rate problem. My infile.wav is 48kHz and it seems that if there is already a jackd running at 44.1kHz the rendered soundfile's length does not match its contents. best, P From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 21:34:42 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 23:34:42 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533B2EB4.9070107@linuxuse.de> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533B21B3.4060703@linuxuse.de> <1396386055.592.27.camel@archlinux> <533B2EB4.9070107@linuxuse.de> Message-ID: <1396388082.592.36.camel@archlinux> On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 23:25 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: [snip] My fault, I misinterpreted your words, because I'm focused to Linux MIDI issues at the moment. JFTR I use MIDI to make simple pop music, if I make other music, I use hard disk recording. From zettberlin at linuxuse.de Tue Apr 1 21:44:41 2014 From: zettberlin at linuxuse.de (Hartmut Noack) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 23:44:41 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396388082.592.36.camel@archlinux> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533B21B3.4060703@linuxuse.de> <1396386055.592.27.camel@archlinux> <533B2EB4.9070107@linuxuse.de> <1396388082.592.36.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <533B3349.3000501@linuxuse.de> Am 01.04.2014 23:34, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 23:25 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > [snip] > > My fault, I misinterpreted your words, because I'm focused to Linux MIDI > issues at the moment. JFTR I use MIDI to make simple pop music, if I > make other music, I use hard disk recording. So do I, also, because I am too lazy to learn, how to make some more than just basic stuff on MIDI-tracks ;-) > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 1 21:47:16 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 21:47:16 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> Message-ID: <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 10:57:44PM +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Am 31.03.2014 23:03, schrieb Len Ovens: > > > > On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > >> Music isn't a competition about smartness. > > > > I think that is what was being said. Music today seems to be no longer > > about communicating anything at all... merely soundiing somewhat pleasant, > > or showing off some vocal (or other) gymnastics seems to be most of it. > > I dont see that. I think, that today music is in the best shape I > experienced since I taped the radio shows in memoriam John Lennon back > in 1981. There's a daily program on RAI radio 3 (the cultural channel here in Italy) called 'alza il volume' or in plain English 'pump up the volume'. It keeps a look on the 'non mainstream' music scene. Much of what it outputs is just entertaining and at times plainly boring, but every now and then there will be some real gems. And most of those gems are very probably produced using software such as Bitwig, and would not exists without it. So in that sense you are certainly right, this *is* an interesting time for music production, at no time before there was such a range of tools available as we have today. But at the same time there's an incredible number of people who are using these tools but absolutely fail to produce anything that stands out, to put it mildly. If music is about 'communicating' anything, it should probably (IMHO) first communicate itself. There's nothing more boring than an artist trying to communicate his or her very personal feelings, be they sorrow or anger. The very least you need is a wider context that is relevant to others, and the music (or any form of art) that will most strongly communicate anything but itself will be the one that in which the creator himself disappears completely. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From alexandre.prokoudine at gmail.com Tue Apr 1 21:49:46 2014 From: alexandre.prokoudine at gmail.com (Alexandre Prokoudine) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 01:49:46 +0400 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533B2B03.2000607@linuxuse.de> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533B21B3.4060703@linuxuse.de> <1396386055.592.27.camel@archlinux> <533B2B03.2000607@linuxuse.de> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:09 AM, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> MIDI wasn't made to play Ornette Coleman compositions. > > That is one of the reasons, the Bitwig-devs hate MIDI from the heart > and have replaced it internally with a format based on OSC. In fact, > Bitwig is not even a real MIDI-sequencer, it is a OSC-sequencer that > can translate incoming MIDI and send/store it. Out of professional curiosity, where does one find out more of these intimate details? :) Alexandre From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 21:56:56 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 23:56:56 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1396389416.592.39.camel@archlinux> On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 21:47 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > There's nothing more boring than an artist trying to communicate his > or her very personal feelings _Issues_ with personal feelings belong to the couch doctor, but _real_ emotions are needed to make good music. What's your point? From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 22:06:31 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 00:06:31 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396389416.592.39.camel@archlinux> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396389416.592.39.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <1396389991.592.41.camel@archlinux> On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 23:56 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 21:47 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > There's nothing more boring than an artist trying to communicate his > > or her very personal feelings > > _Issues_ with personal feelings belong to the couch doctor, but _real_ > emotions are needed to make good music. > > What's your point? PS: Chain gang music or slave music? Is it bad music for your taste? From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 1 22:08:52 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 22:08:52 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396389416.592.39.camel@archlinux> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396389416.592.39.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <20140401220852.GC27222@linuxaudio.org> On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 11:56:56PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 21:47 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > There's nothing more boring than an artist trying to communicate his > > or her very personal feelings > > _Issues_ with personal feelings belong to the couch doctor, but _real_ > emotions are needed to make good music. Real emotions are needed to have a life at all, even if you're not an artist. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 22:18:23 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 00:18:23 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140401220852.GC27222@linuxaudio.org> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396389416.592.39.camel@archlinux> <20140401220852.GC27222@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1396390703.592.45.camel@archlinux> On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 22:08 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 11:56:56PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 21:47 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > There's nothing more boring than an artist trying to communicate his > > > or her very personal feelings > > > > _Issues_ with personal feelings belong to the couch doctor, but _real_ > > emotions are needed to make good music. > > Real emotions are needed to have a life at all, even if > you're not an artist. And how do you rate the music of a coal miner with an IQ much lower than yours, without a musical education, but with an emotional message? Resp. "Chain gang music or slave music?" How do you rate their music? From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 1 22:37:50 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 22:37:50 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396390703.592.45.camel@archlinux> References: <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396389416.592.39.camel@archlinux> <20140401220852.GC27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396390703.592.45.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <20140401223750.GD27222@linuxaudio.org> On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 12:18:23AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > And how do you rate the music of a coal miner with an IQ much lower than > yours, without a musical education, but with an emotional message? Depends entirely on the music, and on nothing else. > Resp. "Chain gang music or slave music?" How do you rate their music? The injustice of putting prisoners in chain gangs or people in slavery has nothing to do with personal emotions. It's injustice tout court, and reducing it to melo won't help to free the world from it. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 22:50:57 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 00:50:57 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140401223750.GD27222@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396389416.592.39.camel@archlinux> <20140401220852.GC27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396390703.592.45.camel@archlinux> <20140401223750.GD27222@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1396392657.592.51.camel@archlinux> On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 22:37 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 12:18:23AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > And how do you rate the music of a coal miner with an IQ much lower than > > yours, without a musical education, but with an emotional message? > > Depends entirely on the music, and on nothing else. For my taste this is a good reply :). > > Resp. "Chain gang music or slave music?" How do you rate their music? > > The injustice of putting prisoners in chain gangs or people in > slavery has nothing to do with personal emotions. It's injustice > tout court, and reducing it to melo won't help to free the world > from it. For my taste this is a bad reply :p. Just for entertainment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51A1rhLqS_E A chain gang like song, packaged into some ugly modern music like style. No music I like, but it anyway has got some charm. PS: I wonder if it might be a chain gang song sample? From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 1 23:28:06 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 01:28:06 +0200 Subject: [LAU] OT Message-ID: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> Since the Bitwig thread moved from a software to musical point of view debate, every Rock musician of my age (born in 1966) in Germany knows Radio Birdman, but too funny, in Australia it seems to be a less known band. Musicians note: A prophet has no honor in his own country! :D From gurusonic at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 00:09:35 2014 From: gurusonic at gmail.com (Roger) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 11:09:35 +1100 Subject: [LAU] OT In-Reply-To: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <533B553F.8050703@gmail.com> On 02/04/14 10:28, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Since the Bitwig thread moved from a software to musical point of view > debate, every Rock musician of my age (born in 1966) in Germany knows > Radio Birdman, but too funny, in Australia it seems to be a less known > band. Totally untrue. Everyone with a taste for rock music here in Australia knows Radio Birdman. They have legendary status. From djdualcore at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 01:55:36 2014 From: djdualcore at gmail.com (Neil) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2014 20:55:36 -0500 Subject: [LAU] a little remix In-Reply-To: <5339C3FD.6040408@woh.rr.com> References: <5338E53B.1060703@woh.rr.com> <20140331200448.58d617ec@debian> <5339C236.4050109@gmail.com> <5339C3FD.6040408@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: Dave's was the radio edit. This is either the album version or the 7" mix. https://soundcloud.com/dj-dual-core/dave-phillips-i-received-a Now we need people to step forward with extended, 6:00+, mixes for the 12" and CD single. On Mon, Mar 31, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Dave Phillips wrote: > > On 03/31/2014 03:29 PM, Ricardus Vincente wrote: > >> On 03/31/2014 03:04 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: >> >> Dave Phillips wrote: >>> >>> Greetings, >>>> >>>> https://soundcloud.com/davephillips69/i-received-a-letter >>>> >>>> 1'49" of downloadable CC-licensed all-original mashed-up words and >>>> music, IIRC. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> >>>> dp >>>> >>> Why remix this? You already had the ultimate mix of this song. :-P >> >> :-P >> >> Rich... >> > > I wanted the harmonies. > > Bada-boom ! > > Btw, I failed to note that it's also non-GMO 100% USDA-certified organic. > > dp > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -- DJ Dual Core's Blog http://oldmixtapes.blogspot.com/ Order without government; Peace without violence. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tim at quitte.de Wed Apr 2 06:48:32 2014 From: tim at quitte.de (Tim Goetze) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 08:48:32 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: [Fons Adriaensen] >If music is about 'communicating' anything, it should probably >(IMHO) first communicate itself. There's nothing more boring >than an artist trying to communicate his or her very personal >feelings, be they sorrow or anger. The very least you need is >a wider context that is relevant to others, and the music (or >any form of art) that will most strongly communicate anything >but itself will be the one that in which the creator himself >disappears completely. To quote Miles Davis, "I think people want to hear music and think what they want to think." (I think this is especially true for live performances. I -- like probably most of us -- hold dear a couple of recordings exactly because they so strongly express a particular emotion or state of mind.) Cheers, Tim From zettberlin at linuxuse.de Wed Apr 2 06:59:03 2014 From: zettberlin at linuxuse.de (Hartmut Noack) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 08:59:03 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533B21B3.4060703@linuxuse.de> <1396386055.592.27.camel@archlinux> <533B2B03.2000607@linuxuse.de> Message-ID: <533BB537.7050409@linuxuse.de> Am 01.04.2014 23:49, schrieb Alexandre Prokoudine: > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 1:09 AM, Hartmut Noack wrote: > >>> MIDI wasn't made to play Ornette Coleman compositions. >> >> That is one of the reasons, the Bitwig-devs hate MIDI from the heart >> and have replaced it internally with a format based on OSC. In fact, >> Bitwig is not even a real MIDI-sequencer, it is a OSC-sequencer that >> can translate incoming MIDI and send/store it. > > Out of professional curiosity, where does one find out more of these > intimate details? :) Try to ask them ;-) In the interview last year the devs told me at length, that they are eager to replace MIDI with something better and described OSC as the basis of their approach to achieve that but they where not that specific *how* they do it. In the interface you can see, that they try to avoid the term "MIDI", you create an "Instrument Track" and you connect "Controllers", only at the farest side of the system, where your connected keyboard lives, a list offers a thing that is called "Generic MIDI-keyboard", (and it does not work, btw)... Bitwig has a API for writing controller interfaces in some Java Script dialect. In the interview I got the impression, that this is used to connect OSC-gear, now I think, that they use such "translators" for MIDI-keyboards also, since I hear, that some people use popular MIDI-Keyboards/controllers with good results, while I do not get a single note from my puny Behringer UMX.... guess, there is no interface-preset for this one.... BTW: I got version 1.0.5 today, still no change regarding the Keyboard. best regards HZN > > Alexandre > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > From zettberlin at linuxuse.de Wed Apr 2 07:21:55 2014 From: zettberlin at linuxuse.de (Hartmut Noack) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 09:21:55 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> Am 01.04.2014 23:47, schrieb Fons Adriaensen: > On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 10:57:44PM +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > >> Am 31.03.2014 23:03, schrieb Len Ovens: >>> >>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>> >>>> Music isn't a competition about smartness. >>> >>> I think that is what was being said. Music today seems to be no longer >>> about communicating anything at all... merely soundiing somewhat pleasant, >>> or showing off some vocal (or other) gymnastics seems to be most of it. >> >> I dont see that. I think, that today music is in the best shape I >> experienced since I taped the radio shows in memoriam John Lennon back >> in 1981. > > There's a daily program on RAI radio 3 (the cultural channel here > in Italy) called 'alza il volume' or in plain English 'pump up the > volume'. It keeps a look on the 'non mainstream' music scene. Much > of what it outputs is just entertaining and at times plainly boring, > but every now and then there will be some real gems. And most of > those gems are very probably produced using software such as Bitwig, I think, where the attitude of a musician reaches the point of "I know, what to do and I will do it just right." the choice to tools becomes liquid again: there are some great recodings today that are made on antique 4-Track tapes, Portishead use a hardware HD-recorder from the 90ies, most will use Pro Tools though... > and would not exists without it. So in that sense you are certainly > right, this *is* an interesting time for music production, at no > time before there was such a range of tools available as we have > today. But at the same time there's an incredible number of people > who are using these tools but absolutely fail to produce anything > that stands out, to put it mildly. > > If music is about 'communicating' anything, it should probably > (IMHO) first communicate itself. Absolutely! I want to hear music, that speaks for itself, before I accept thoughts and feelings transported by it. Anyway it is all about individuality plus love for music, both combined will almost automatically reject any boring standardisation and enable the artist to produce something worth listening to with *any* tool that offers the needed flexibility to fit the vision. > There's nothing more boring > than an artist trying to communicate his or her very personal > feelings, be they sorrow or anger. The very least you need is > a wider context that is relevant to others, and the music (or > any form of art) that will most strongly communicate anything > but itself will be the one that in which the creator himself > disappears completely. Rock/Pop music is performance art, the "Rockstar" is a role, that is played by someone, who happens to sing/play at the same time. The result is not music in the sense of Bach or Mahler but still relevant art if done right. best regards HZN > > Ciao, > From lorenzofsutton at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 07:23:17 2014 From: lorenzofsutton at gmail.com (Lorenzo Sutton) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 09:23:17 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <201403311003.26792.zotz@100jamz.com> <533AA0AE.60501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <533BBAE5.3040304@gmail.com> On 01/04/2014 15:56, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > [...] > >>> count steps, then multiply it by 20 tracks to get a better idea of >>> boring work you need to do every time (Hint: A3 will win, because I >>> specifically bugged Paul about it). >> >> >> With e.g. Rosegarden + Qsynth: [*] >> >> 1. In qsynth select a GM compatible (or GS) SoundFont (e.g. Fluidsynth one >> available on most major distros) >> 2a. Connect Roesegarden's default midi out to Qsynth's midi in [**] >> 2b. Connect Qsynth audio out to your system out device input in jack [***] >> 3. In Rosegarden press play button. >> 4. Enjoy your MIDI-sounding masterpiece :-) >> >> Ciao >> Lorenzo. >> [*] Assuming JACK is running, which is a precondition for the two software >> to be running. >> [**] Assuming the default midi out for individual tracks hasn't explicitly >> been changed to something else, e.g. a softsynth. But by default Rosegarden >> will use 'General Midi out' for new tracks or for imported midi files >> [***] Qsynth can actually be configured to autoconnect to jack Output. In >> this case this passage isn't necessary > > Yes, this is what I more or less expected to read :) So? Is it really _that_ complicated? How exactly would you like it to be? Lorenzo. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Apr 2 07:25:04 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 09:25:04 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 08:48 +0200, Tim Goetze wrote: > [Fons Adriaensen] > >If music is about 'communicating' anything, it should probably > >(IMHO) first communicate itself. There's nothing more boring > >than an artist trying to communicate his or her very personal > >feelings, be they sorrow or anger. The very least you need is > >a wider context that is relevant to others, and the music (or > >any form of art) that will most strongly communicate anything > >but itself will be the one that in which the creator himself > >disappears completely. > > To quote Miles Davis, "I think people want to hear music and think > what they want to think." > > (I think this is especially true for live performances. I -- like > probably most of us -- hold dear a couple of recordings exactly > because they so strongly express a particular emotion or state of > mind.) "Ausdruck befreit vom Sinn" (translated something like "Expression freed from any statement") - more or less the words of Christoph Schlingensief I can't agree with this as something good, it's evil, music is alive when there is a statement, when there are emotions by the artist who makes the music. Music made without personal feelings is a lie, a long time before we got scripted reality television, humans already made music comparable to scripted reality. It's even better to make music with emotions that belong to the couch doctor, than to follow Fons ideology. Sure, the musician must be able to stand the feedback of the audience. Take a look at old Black Flag videos, Henry Rollins has been laughed at. They double up with laughter, years later the same people who made jokes about him, became Fans of Rollins Band. There's no need for music to describe reality, but even fantasy stories without political or psychopathological statement needs true emotions. If the creator disappears completely, how should the music get alive? From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Apr 2 07:33:12 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 09:33:12 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> Message-ID: <1396423992.594.34.camel@archlinux> On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 09:21 +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Portishead use a hardware HD-recorder from the > 90ies Likely because Portishead is from the 90ies ;). From tim at quitte.de Wed Apr 2 08:17:46 2014 From: tim at quitte.de (Tim Goetze) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 10:17:46 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: [Ralf Mardorf] >On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 08:48 +0200, Tim Goetze wrote: >> To quote Miles Davis, "I think people want to hear music and think >> what they want to think." >> >> (I think this is especially true for live performances. I -- like >> probably most of us -- hold dear a couple of recordings exactly >> because they so strongly express a particular emotion or state of >> mind.) > >"Ausdruck befreit vom Sinn" (translated something like "Expression freed >from any statement") - more or less the words of Christoph Schlingensief > >I can't agree with this as something good, it's evil, music is alive >when there is a statement, when there are emotions by the artist who >makes the music. > >Music made without personal feelings is a lie, a long time before we got >scripted reality television, humans already made music comparable to >scripted reality. I think you misunderstand the point I was trying to make. Of course music is nothing without life. But the problems come with trying to burden the music with personal emotion. A musical performance, I think, will only really work when you give yourself up to the music itself and leave whatever is troubling or exalting you outside because it will only keep from reaching true flow. (Once you're there, your personal truth will come shining through anyway, if you don't mind me putting that in a slightly esoteric way. And notwithstanding, I don't think there's anything wrong with playing an exalted, sad or even angry song when the time is right, of course.) Cheers, Tim From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Wed Apr 2 08:18:33 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2014 22:18:33 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> Message-ID: <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/01/2014 09:21 PM, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Am 01.04.2014 23:47, schrieb Fons Adriaensen: >> On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 10:57:44PM +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> >>> Am 31.03.2014 23:03, schrieb Len Ovens: >>>> >>>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>>> >>>>> Music isn't a competition about smartness. >>>> >>>> I think that is what was being said. Music today seems to be no longer >>>> about communicating anything at all... merely soundiing somewhat pleasant, >>>> or showing off some vocal (or other) gymnastics seems to be most of it. >>> >>> I dont see that. I think, that today music is in the best shape I >>> experienced since I taped the radio shows in memoriam John Lennon back >>> in 1981. >> >> There's a daily program on RAI radio 3 (the cultural channel here >> in Italy) called 'alza il volume' or in plain English 'pump up the >> volume'. It keeps a look on the 'non mainstream' music scene. Much >> of what it outputs is just entertaining and at times plainly boring, >> but every now and then there will be some real gems. And most of >> those gems are very probably produced using software such as Bitwig, > > I think, where the attitude of a musician reaches the point of "I know, > what to do and I will do it just right." the choice to tools becomes > liquid again: there are some great recodings today that are made on > antique 4-Track tapes, Portishead use a hardware HD-recorder from the > 90ies, most will use Pro Tools though... > > >> and would not exists without it. So in that sense you are certainly >> right, this *is* an interesting time for music production, at no >> time before there was such a range of tools available as we have >> today. But at the same time there's an incredible number of people >> who are using these tools but absolutely fail to produce anything >> that stands out, to put it mildly. >> >> If music is about 'communicating' anything, it should probably >> (IMHO) first communicate itself. > > Absolutely! I want to hear music, that speaks for itself, before I > accept thoughts and feelings transported by it. Anyway it is all about > individuality plus love for music, both combined will almost > automatically reject any boring standardisation and enable the artist to > produce something worth listening to with *any* tool that offers the > needed flexibility to fit the vision. > >> There's nothing more boring >> than an artist trying to communicate his or her very personal >> feelings, be they sorrow or anger. The very least you need is >> a wider context that is relevant to others, and the music (or >> any form of art) that will most strongly communicate anything >> but itself will be the one that in which the creator himself >> disappears completely. > > Rock/Pop music is performance art, the "Rockstar" is a role, that is > played by someone, who happens to sing/play at the same time. The result > is not music in the sense of Bach or Mahler but still relevant art if > done right. But Bach and Mahler and many (if not most) of what we now consider "classical and/or/great" musicians wrote for the same reason: to write something that people would pay money for. In Bach's day, the only people who had the money were far fewer than today's horde of music listeners. In that sense, the composer was performance art; Mozart, for example. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Apr 2 08:32:40 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 10:32:40 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <1396427560.594.37.camel@archlinux> On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 22:18 -1000, david wrote: > But Bach and Mahler and many (if not most) of what we now consider > "classical and/or/great" musicians wrote for the same reason: to write > something that people would pay money for. I've got the impression that Franz Schubert's intention to make music wasn't the money. I even have the impression that Ozzy Osborne's reason to make music isn't the money. From allcoms at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 08:37:18 2014 From: allcoms at gmail.com (Dan MacDonald) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 09:37:18 +0100 Subject: [LAU] [LAA] AlsaModularSynth (ams) 2.1.1 released In-Reply-To: <20140401164555.GA16867@traun.gscholz.bayernline.de> References: <20140401164555.GA16867@traun.gscholz.bayernline.de> Message-ID: Happy birthday Guido & thanks for the new AMS release! On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Guido Scholz wrote: > Dear all, > > AlsaModularSynth (ams) is a MIDI controlled realtime modular synthesizer > and effect processor with support for LADSPA and JACK. > > This is a "my birthday" bug fix release also providing some > enhancements: > > > ams-2.1.1 (2014-04-01) > > Fixed Bugs > o Fix crash on loading patches with missing LADSPA libraries. > > New Features > o SIGTERM handler. > o NSM support (programmed by Roy Vegard Ovesen) > o Mouse hover port highlighting. > o Full screen mode view (F11). > > General Changes > o German translation update. > o Some internal cleanups. > > Website: > http://alsamodular.sourceforge.net/ > > Project page: > https://sourceforge.net/projects/alsamodular/ > > Files: > https://sourceforge.net/projects/alsamodular/files/ > > > Enjoy! > > Guido Scholz > > -- > http://wie-im-flug.net/ > http://www.lug-burghausen.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-announce mailing list > Linux-audio-announce at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-announce > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fons at linuxaudio.org Wed Apr 2 08:42:53 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 08:42:53 +0000 Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <20140402084253.GA30920@linuxaudio.org> On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 09:25:04AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I can't agree with this as something good, it's evil, music is alive > when there is a statement, when there are emotions by the artist who > makes the music. Every few weeks on R3 here there is a live transmission of some opera from the NY Met. Last year we had Verdi's 'La Traviata'. Usually you can hear the American radio presenter talking over the final applause. Instead of commenting on the performance (as do the Italian presenters) she went something like '... and so the poor girl dies in the arms of her lover bla bla bla bla'. If this is the way in which the American audience understands La Traviata then there is some cause for concern. One level up from the melo would be to say that the opera (and the novel it is based on) is a denunciation of 19th century bourgeois moral hypocrisy. This is the interpretation offered by many of today's directors. Verdi must have had his share of that, having lived together but unmarried with la Streppina for some years, something not tolerated in the society of his time. But is that why he wrote the opera ? I doubt it very much. The are some very strong emotions in La Traviata, and they are expressed by the music, but they are certainly not Verdi's, neither those of the performers. The belong to the characters portrayed, and those are fiction, repeat fiction. They are also presented in a context that easily trancends the strictly personal. It's this that allows the work to have appeal beyond the level of tearjerking. And of course the music itself. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From david at olofson.net Wed Apr 2 08:50:27 2014 From: david at olofson.net (David Olofson) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 10:50:27 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396427560.594.37.camel@archlinux> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <1396427560.594.37.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Tue, 2014-04-01 at 22:18 -1000, david wrote: >> But Bach and Mahler and many (if not most) of what we now consider >> "classical and/or/great" musicians wrote for the same reason: to write >> something that people would pay money for. > > I've got the impression that Franz Schubert's intention to make music > wasn't the money. I even have the impression that Ozzy Osborne's reason > to make music isn't the money. I don't think there is necessarily a conflict between what a musician wants to do, and what lots of people want to hear, and are potentially willing to pay for. Could it be that some are just lucky enough to be able to do what they really want to do, and still find a viable market for it? -- //David Olofson - Consultant, Developer, Artist, Open Source Advocate .--- Games, examples, libraries, scripting, sound, music, graphics ---. | http://consulting.olofson.net http://olofsonarcade.com | '---------------------------------------------------------------------' From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Apr 2 09:12:58 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 11:12:58 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140402084253.GA30920@linuxaudio.org> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> <20140402084253.GA30920@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1396429978.594.48.camel@archlinux> On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 08:42 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > The are some very strong emotions in La Traviata, and they are > expressed by the music, but they are certainly not Verdi's, > neither those of the performers. A story of a song or opera might be fictional and the composer and musicians might never have been in the situation the story is about, but they have a stock of experiences and emotions they could and should use. Peter Ustinov once claimed that he dislikes method acting, he claimed that he is (was) an actor, he doesn't need to feel what the character he plays feels, he is able to fake the emotion without feeling it. IMO there are many method actors who are much, much better than Peter Ustinov ever was. IMO we can notice if an artists does use a stock of experiences and emotions when making art or if he just use craftsmanship to fake emotions. From zettberlin at linuxuse.de Wed Apr 2 09:23:09 2014 From: zettberlin at linuxuse.de (Hartmut Noack) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 11:23:09 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <533BD6FD.1030704@linuxuse.de> Am 02.04.2014 10:18, schrieb david: > On 04/01/2014 09:21 PM, Hartmut Noack wrote: >> Am 01.04.2014 23:47, schrieb Fons Adriaensen: >>> On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 10:57:44PM +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: >>> >>>> Am 31.03.2014 23:03, schrieb Len Ovens: >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Music isn't a competition about smartness. >>>>> >>>>> I think that is what was being said. Music today seems to be no longer >>>>> about communicating anything at all... merely soundiing somewhat pleasant, >>>>> or showing off some vocal (or other) gymnastics seems to be most of it. >>>> >>>> I dont see that. I think, that today music is in the best shape I >>>> experienced since I taped the radio shows in memoriam John Lennon back >>>> in 1981. >>> >>> There's a daily program on RAI radio 3 (the cultural channel here >>> in Italy) called 'alza il volume' or in plain English 'pump up the >>> volume'. It keeps a look on the 'non mainstream' music scene. Much >>> of what it outputs is just entertaining and at times plainly boring, >>> but every now and then there will be some real gems. And most of >>> those gems are very probably produced using software such as Bitwig, >> >> I think, where the attitude of a musician reaches the point of "I know, >> what to do and I will do it just right." the choice to tools becomes >> liquid again: there are some great recodings today that are made on >> antique 4-Track tapes, Portishead use a hardware HD-recorder from the >> 90ies, most will use Pro Tools though... >> >> >>> and would not exists without it. So in that sense you are certainly >>> right, this *is* an interesting time for music production, at no >>> time before there was such a range of tools available as we have >>> today. But at the same time there's an incredible number of people >>> who are using these tools but absolutely fail to produce anything >>> that stands out, to put it mildly. >>> >>> If music is about 'communicating' anything, it should probably >>> (IMHO) first communicate itself. >> >> Absolutely! I want to hear music, that speaks for itself, before I >> accept thoughts and feelings transported by it. Anyway it is all about >> individuality plus love for music, both combined will almost >> automatically reject any boring standardisation and enable the artist to >> produce something worth listening to with *any* tool that offers the >> needed flexibility to fit the vision. >> >>> There's nothing more boring >>> than an artist trying to communicate his or her very personal >>> feelings, be they sorrow or anger. The very least you need is >>> a wider context that is relevant to others, and the music (or >>> any form of art) that will most strongly communicate anything >>> but itself will be the one that in which the creator himself >>> disappears completely. >> >> Rock/Pop music is performance art, the "Rockstar" is a role, that is >> played by someone, who happens to sing/play at the same time. The result >> is not music in the sense of Bach or Mahler but still relevant art if >> done right. > > But Bach and Mahler and many (if not most) of what we now consider > "classical and/or/great" musicians wrote for the same reason: to write > something that people would pay money for. No, they wrote the music to become famous enough to get a well-paid job. Some tunes they where paid for directly but that was: "Oh, I am lucky enough to have this famous Gustav Mahler being kind enough to write music for my humble orchestra." And there was no producer, who controlled and influenced the writing and if the work would not be asuccess, it may have had impact on the the fame of the composer but not the payment directly. Bach wrote some of his now most famous(and influential) works for the drawer as some kind of theoretical research on contrapunctus etc The art of the fuge was seldom performed in his day for a small circle,of specialists. > In Bach's day, the only > people who had the money were far fewer than today's horde of music > listeners. In that sense, the composer was performance art; Mozart, for > example. > From louigi.verona at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 09:36:18 2014 From: louigi.verona at gmail.com (Louigi Verona) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 13:36:18 +0400 Subject: [LAU] Wav loop points In-Reply-To: References: <51339.188.25.30.135.1355227393.squirrel@boosthardware.com> Message-ID: Hey fellas! This is an old thread and I apologiza for bringing it up, but has anyone incorporated this into any of their software? Are you planning to? L.V. On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 1:34 PM, Louigi Verona wrote: > Just tried setting up the above-mentioned SOFTSTR3 in Petri-Foo manually. > Note that you need to have X-Fade turned to 0, otherwise the end of the > loop gets "eaten" by it and you won't be able to set the loop correctly. > That means that if you automatically read smp chunk, you need to adjust > the amount of X-Fade or turn it completely off. > > For example, say the end loop point is 210220 and whole file is 210300. If > X-Fade is set to its default value of 100, then the farthest available loop > point will be 210300-100=210200. > So we either just set X-Fade to 0 or else we can set it to > 210300-210220=80. > > L.V. > -- Louigi Verona http://www.louigiverona.ru/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Apr 2 09:39:05 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 11:39:05 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396429978.594.48.camel@archlinux> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> <20140402084253.GA30920@linuxaudio.org> <1396429978.594.48.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <1396431545.594.56.camel@archlinux> On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 11:12 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 08:42 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > The are some very strong emotions in La Traviata, and they are > > expressed by the music, but they are certainly not Verdi's, > > neither those of the performers. > > A story of a song or opera might be fictional and the composer and > musicians might never have been in the situation the story is about, but > they have a stock of experiences and emotions they could and should use. > Peter Ustinov once claimed that he dislikes method acting, he claimed > that he is (was) an actor, he doesn't need to feel what the character he > plays feels, he is able to fake the emotion without feeling it. IMO > there are many method actors who are much, much better than Peter > Ustinov ever was. IMO we can notice if an artists does use a stock of > experiences and emotions when making art or if he just use craftsmanship > to fake emotions. PS: You also could play a musical character, if you dislike the character you play and you make this the emotion that should be transported, instead of the emotion the character should feel. Btw. music often should cause fun and not transport political statements, however, if you sing The Wild Rover it might be less entertaining when you're living Straight Edge. Btw. you first claim that music should speak for itself, there shouldn't be the need to know the background and then you're terrified when an American reporter nowadays doesn't understand oldish European music ;). From fons at linuxaudio.org Wed Apr 2 09:48:10 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 09:48:10 +0000 Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396429978.594.48.camel@archlinux> References: <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> <20140402084253.GA30920@linuxaudio.org> <1396429978.594.48.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <20140402094810.GB30920@linuxaudio.org> On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 11:12:58AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Peter Ustinov once claimed that he dislikes method acting, Considering that some form of method acting is what most American actors today are using, why is more than 99% of all acting I see in American movies and TV so utterly unrealistic and boring ? Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Apr 2 10:05:36 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 12:05:36 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140402094810.GB30920@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> <20140402084253.GA30920@linuxaudio.org> <1396429978.594.48.camel@archlinux> <20140402094810.GB30920@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1396433136.594.68.camel@archlinux> On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 09:48 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 11:12:58AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > Peter Ustinov once claimed that he dislikes method acting, > > Considering that some form of method acting is what most > American actors today are using, why is more than 99% of > all acting I see in American movies and TV so utterly > unrealistic and boring ? Because they learned method acting, but they only visited acting schools payed by their parents, they never had a real live, so they don't have a stock of experiences and usually they care about the money and play characters for weak stories. JFTR even many good stories aren't realistic, they are fictional. However, why doesn't listen Fons and Ralf to Justin Bieber? IMO the difference between operas and a Justin Bieber song is that the opera is made by emotions (and musical know-how, but there is good emotional music, e.g. a lot of Rock'n'Roll made without theoretical musical know-how too). JFTR the Wiki claims that Justin Bieber is also an actor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Bieber . https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/01/Believe_Tour_13,_2012.jpg/431px-Believe_Tour_13,_2012.jpg Taking a look at his filmography, I'm only willing to watch The Simpsons, likely he didn't play the role, I suspect it's a painted character. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Apr 2 10:20:26 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 12:20:26 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140402094810.GB30920@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> <20140402084253.GA30920@linuxaudio.org> <1396429978.594.48.camel@archlinux> <20140402094810.GB30920@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1396434026.594.75.camel@archlinux> On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 09:48 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > why is more than 99% of all acting I see in American movies and TV so > utterly [...] boring ? I have to strike a blow for American movies, there are some people, e.g. Jim Jarmusch, Joel Coen, Ethan Coen and a few others making diverting films. Nobody is forced to watch some Pixar crap, just to claim Linux is used by professionals ;). From simonzwise at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 10:54:21 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 21:54:21 +1100 Subject: [LAU] OT In-Reply-To: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> On 02/04/14 10:28, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Since the Bitwig thread moved from a software to musical point of view > debate, every Rock musician of my age (born in 1966) in Germany knows > Radio Birdman, but too funny, in Australia it seems to be a less known > band. > > Musicians note: A prophet has no honor in his own country! :D not at all ... they were very well known and respected ... I'm a bit older, and was part of a student radio station in Sydney around 1980. Simon From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Apr 2 10:55:36 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 12:55:36 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396434026.594.75.camel@archlinux> References: <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> <20140402084253.GA30920@linuxaudio.org> <1396429978.594.48.camel@archlinux> <20140402094810.GB30920@linuxaudio.org> <1396434026.594.75.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <1396436136.594.85.camel@archlinux> On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 12:20 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 09:48 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > why is more than 99% of all acting I see in American movies and TV so > > utterly [...] boring ? > > I have to strike a blow for American movies, there are some people, e.g. > Jim Jarmusch, Joel Coen, Ethan Coen and a few others making diverting > films. Nobody is forced to watch some Pixar crap, just to claim Linux is > used by professionals ;). Some of the "few" others are Tony Richardson for The Hotel New Hampshire (1984), David Lynch for The Elephant Man (1980), John Sturges for Bad Day at Black Rock (1955), King Vidor for Northwest Passage (1940), George Stevens for Giant (1956), Richard Brooks for Cat on a Hot Tin Roof (1958), Jack Arnold for all his superb B-movies. Richard Wallace etc. pp. From simonzwise at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 11:02:29 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 22:02:29 +1100 Subject: [LAU] OT In-Reply-To: <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> On 02/04/14 21:54, Simon Wise wrote: > On 02/04/14 10:28, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> Since the Bitwig thread moved from a software to musical point of view >> debate, every Rock musician of my age (born in 1966) in Germany knows >> Radio Birdman, but too funny, in Australia it seems to be a less known >> band. >> >> Musicians note: A prophet has no honor in his own country! :D > > not at all ... they were very well known and respected ... I'm a bit older, and > was part of a student radio station in Sydney around 1980. > we recorded a lot of local stuff, and at one stage broadcast a series looking at the history of the local live scene (basically interviews and recordings covering a large slab of the 70s scene here), a big part of that at the time was very influenced by radio birdman, a lot had moved down from brisbane a few years earlier. I went searching for a copy once, but couldn't find one. Simon From simonzwise at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 11:12:56 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 22:12:56 +1100 Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396429978.594.48.camel@archlinux> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> <20140402084253.GA30920@linuxaudio.org> <1396429978.594.48.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <533BF0B8.4000003@gmail.com> On 02/04/14 20:12, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 08:42 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: >> The are some very strong emotions in La Traviata, and they are >> expressed by the music, but they are certainly not Verdi's, >> neither those of the performers. > > A story of a song or opera might be fictional and the composer and > musicians might never have been in the situation the story is about, but > they have a stock of experiences and emotions they could and should use. > Peter Ustinov once claimed that he dislikes method acting, he claimed > that he is (was) an actor, he doesn't need to feel what the character he > plays feels, he is able to fake the emotion without feeling it. IMO > there are many method actors who are much, much better than Peter > Ustinov ever was. IMO we can notice if an artists does use a stock of > experiences and emotions when making art or if he just use craftsmanship > to fake emotions. you might find reading a little of other methods is interesting, and there is plenty written in German. especially about your comments above. Simon > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > From simonzwise at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 11:14:21 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 22:14:21 +1100 Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396434026.594.75.camel@archlinux> References: <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> <20140402084253.GA30920@linuxaudio.org> <1396429978.594.48.camel@archlinux> <20140402094810.GB30920@linuxaudio.org> <1396434026.594.75.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <533BF10D.7050907@gmail.com> On 02/04/14 21:20, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 09:48 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: >> why is more than 99% of all acting I see in American movies and TV so >> utterly [...] boring ? > > I have to strike a blow for American movies, there are some people, e.g. > Jim Jarmusch, Joel Coen, Ethan Coen and a few others making diverting > films. Nobody is forced to watch some Pixar crap, just to claim Linux is > used by professionals ;). and a lot of that is quite some distance from method acting. Simon From simonzwise at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 11:20:15 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 22:20:15 +1100 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> >> >> Rock/Pop music is performance art, the "Rockstar" is a role, that is >> played by someone, who happens to sing/play at the same time. The result >> is not music in the sense of Bach or Mahler but still relevant art if >> done right. > > But Bach and Mahler and many (if not most) of what we now consider "classical > and/or/great" musicians wrote for the same reason: to write something that > people would pay money for. In Bach's day, the only people who had the money > were far fewer than today's horde of music listeners. In that sense, the > composer was performance art; Mozart, for example. any opera especially, big stagey spectaculars to pull in the box office. That a just continued a very very old tradition, but its only one part of music. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Apr 2 11:28:52 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 13:28:52 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533BF10D.7050907@gmail.com> References: <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> <20140402084253.GA30920@linuxaudio.org> <1396429978.594.48.camel@archlinux> <20140402094810.GB30920@linuxaudio.org> <1396434026.594.75.camel@archlinux> <533BF10D.7050907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1396438132.594.100.camel@archlinux> On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 22:14 +1100, Simon Wise wrote: > On 02/04/14 21:20, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 09:48 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > >> why is more than 99% of all acting I see in American movies and TV so > >> utterly [...] boring ? > > > > I have to strike a blow for American movies, there are some people, e.g. > > Jim Jarmusch, Joel Coen, Ethan Coen and a few others making diverting > > films. Nobody is forced to watch some Pixar crap, just to claim Linux is > > used by professionals ;). > > and a lot of that is quite some distance from method acting. Yes, but then the emotion that is transported is irony, because the nice stories became completely grotesque. From alexandre.prokoudine at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 12:01:35 2014 From: alexandre.prokoudine at gmail.com (Alexandre Prokoudine) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 16:01:35 +0400 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533BBAE5.3040304@gmail.com> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <201403311003.26792.zotz@100jamz.com> <533AA0AE.60501@gmail.com> <533BBAE5.3040304@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: >>> [*] Assuming JACK is running, which is a precondition for the two >>> software >>> to be running. >>> [**] Assuming the default midi out for individual tracks hasn't >>> explicitly >>> been changed to something else, e.g. a softsynth. But by default >>> Rosegarden >>> will use 'General Midi out' for new tracks or for imported midi files >>> [***] Qsynth can actually be configured to autoconnect to jack Output. In >>> this case this passage isn't necessary >> >> Yes, this is what I more or less expected to read :) > > So? Is it really _that_ complicated? How exactly would you like it to be? In Ardour 3: in the Add Track dialog select an instrument from a dropdown list. That is all. It works just fine for Pianoteq, TAL NoiseMaker, Calf's synths, Loomer Aspect etc. Also, the audio outputs of tracks are automatically routed to the master bus, so you don't do any jack plumbing to make a bounce unless you specifically want to process some of the data via an extra audio bus. Alexandre From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Wed Apr 2 12:47:20 2014 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 08:47:20 -0400 Subject: [LAU] regarding "quick & efficient" Message-ID: <533C06D8.1000601@woh.rr.com> Greetings, Reading an interview with Philippe Leroux in the Computer Music Journal, when asked about spending 20 months on a 20-minute piece he replied : "I try to spend as much time as I can with each piece before letting it go into the world, so to speak. That allows me to re-read, to correct, to refine the details, to add little things that enrich the musical discourse in a manner that allows for as many levels of perception of the work as possible during the process of composing. I like to have a profound understanding of the piece; it is a daily two-way communication that I sustain with it. That allows me to get to compositional levels that are just not possible when you compose something fast. Then again, having said that, in the real world, some works are written a lot faster than that." Best, dp From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Apr 2 12:56:58 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 14:56:58 +0200 Subject: [LAU] regarding "quick & efficient" In-Reply-To: <533C06D8.1000601@woh.rr.com> References: <533C06D8.1000601@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <1396443418.594.129.camel@archlinux> On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 08:47 -0400, Dave Phillips wrote: > Greetings, > > Reading an interview with Philippe Leroux in the Computer Music Journal, > when asked about spending 20 months on a 20-minute piece he replied : > > "I try to spend as much time as I can with each piece before letting it > go into the world, so to speak. That allows me to re-read, to correct, > to refine the details, to add little things that enrich the musical > discourse in a manner that allows for as many levels of perception of > the work as possible during the process of composing. I like to have a > profound understanding of the piece; it is a daily two-way communication > that I sustain with it. That allows me to get to compositional levels > that are just not possible when you compose something fast. Then again, > having said that, in the real world, some works are written a lot faster > than that." :) In the end it's emotional ambivalence that does the fine tuning ;). From Mathias.Krause at xse.de Wed Apr 2 13:15:33 2014 From: Mathias.Krause at xse.de (Krause, Mathias) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 13:15:33 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Musician who uses sooperlooper In-Reply-To: References: <533278CD.3060606@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <74BB536895EF064DB2A9580AD0E95B752CF76E2A@XSRWWSEX01.xse.local> On 26 Mar 2014 07:51, "david" wrote: > > I don't know if he uses the Linux or Mac OS X version: Article mentions Max/MSP, so OsX. Still cool to know SL is being used by him. Cheers, -Harry I think it's the same here: http://blog.sebastian-arnold.net/ even if I think to remember that has been a Linux machine some time before... - Mathias From lorenzofsutton at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 15:19:56 2014 From: lorenzofsutton at gmail.com (Lorenzo Sutton) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 17:19:56 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <201403311003.26792.zotz@100jamz.com> <533AA0AE.60501@gmail.com> <533BBAE5.3040304@gmail.com> Message-ID: <533C2A9C.8060006@gmail.com> On 02/04/2014 14:01, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote: > >>>> [*] Assuming JACK is running, which is a precondition for the two >>>> software >>>> to be running. >>>> [**] Assuming the default midi out for individual tracks hasn't >>>> explicitly >>>> been changed to something else, e.g. a softsynth. But by default >>>> Rosegarden >>>> will use 'General Midi out' for new tracks or for imported midi files >>>> [***] Qsynth can actually be configured to autoconnect to jack Output. In >>>> this case this passage isn't necessary >>> >>> Yes, this is what I more or less expected to read :) >> >> So? Is it really _that_ complicated? How exactly would you like it to be? > > In Ardour 3: in the Add Track dialog select an instrument from a > dropdown list. That is all. > > It works just fine for Pianoteq, TAL NoiseMaker, Calf's synths, Loomer > Aspect etc. Then I misunderstood. I though you meant e.g. importing a midi file and having it play (all tracks) as quickly as possible. If we're talking about per-track syths, you can very easily do that in Rosegarden as well with a dropdown ;-) Lorenzo > > Also, the audio outputs of tracks are automatically routed to the > master bus, so you don't do any jack plumbing to make a bounce unless > you specifically want to process some of the data via an extra audio > bus. > > Alexandre > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > From robin at gareus.org Wed Apr 2 15:50:29 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 17:50:29 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> Message-ID: <533C31C5.7060408@gareus.org> On 04/01/2014 03:40 PM, James Harkins wrote: > Alexandre Prokoudine writes: [..] >> >> Gordon basically summarized (in a rather arguable manner) a point that >> we've discussed time and time again: if Linux audio is for geeks or >> for full-time musicians. apples vs oranges. If you're a casual blues guitarist, linux audio is about as useful to you as a Bassoon :) [.. description of an algorithmic composition ..] > > The point being that this sort of geekery a/ comes directly from a musical > impulse (I can hear if the implementation isn't doing what I heard in my head) > and b/ is grounded in a musical understanding of harmony (in fact, it models > part of my thought process when I'm writing harmony by hand). But never mind > that -- Actually, I do mind. This is a very nice real-world example. You have an idea, managed to describe it using abstract concepts which in turn can be formulated in a language which - in this case - is interpreted by a computer. There's nothing *geeky* about it at all. > if I were writing dots on paper and debating whether to use > interlocking woodwind voicing or not, THAT sort of geekery would be perfectly > musical, but the fact that this particular music geekery is in SC means that > it's... what was the phrase? "Autistic savant computer genius" territory. exactly. In some cases can do away with pen and papers, too. Just shout the idea to the musicians next to you during a jam-session in whatever language they understand. I still find it hard to accept that creative people prefer a point-and-drool user interface to express and realize their ideas. > I don't know Bitwig, so I have no basis to evaluate Robin's assertion that > it's a "toy." I chose the word 'toy' carefully. You can have fun with toys, play with toys and use them creatively. However, toys are usually limiting, limited and often unreliable. Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for the Bitwig team to pull this off this project. Anyway back on subject. I think what we learned in this thread is that the expectations of many [potential] linux audio users does not match the idea that many developers have in mind. Now, that's a bold provocative statement, but there you go. 2c, robin From james at jwm-art.net Wed Apr 2 15:55:49 2014 From: james at jwm-art.net (James Morris) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 15:55:49 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533C31C5.7060408@gareus.org> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533C31C5.7060408@gareus.org> Message-ID: <20140402155549.70bffb40@Scrapyard.lan> On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 17:50:29 +0200 Robin Gareus wrote: > Anyway back on subject. > > I think what we learned in this thread is that the expectations of > many [potential] linux audio users does not match the idea that many > developers have in mind. > Also, we learn some people think their snobbish opinions about music matter. From cannam at all-day-breakfast.com Wed Apr 2 16:01:46 2014 From: cannam at all-day-breakfast.com (Chris Cannam) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 17:01:46 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1396454506.10989.101929065.2F2AA2F1@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Mon, Mar 31, 2014, at 03:02 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > Moreover, not producing any sound by default from MIDI data is exactly > the problem that Rosegarden specifically had to address in the _FAQ_ Certainly the biggest problem for new users of Rosegarden. And it's a situation where a project planned cooperatively can find itself at an evolutionary disadvantage. In a company with a proprietary product this would inevitably come to a head: there would be a meeting, called for the purpose of resolving the problem of making sure sound came out by default. It might not be a very effective meeting but everyone there would be clear that this problem had to be solved or there would be no product. And the solution might not be a very good one, likely it wouldn't be at all elegant, but the sound would eventually get made. In a project with a single core developer who is also the "prototype" user, a similar process (without the meeting) might happen. Such questions often get resolved by the developer deciding they really didn't care to do anything about it, but that could be OK anyway -- it would be reflected in the way the program was presented to the world -- it's "for people like me", developers who don't care about that detail. Rosegarden found itself in an unhappy middle ground. It was very much supposed to be accessible to new users, and its developers cared very much that it didn't make any sound by default. But no solution seemed to be available that was really workable for everything else that the developers cared about. For example, a default track used General MIDI program names and no GM soundfont was available under a suitable licence. The question of whether a track played out through the MIDI interface or through a synth plugin was baked into that track, and taking a MIDI track and playing it through a plugin would make an awkward technical and user-interface compromise. Synth plugins in Rosegarden require JACK, and we had as many users who were cross about the difficulty of getting JACK running as we did who were cross about the lack of sound by default. (That last point perhaps just illustrates the dangers of listening to your users -- people who couldn't make the thing make any noise did not become users.) I've been away from the coalface for a bit; it might be interesting to take stock and see whether there is a more obvious right way to do it by now. I suspect it would start by canning the ALSA MIDI support and going JACK-only, since ALSA MIDI support contributes much of the complexity of Rosegarden's sequencer code, but I don't really know. Like any developer who worked too long on a project, I sometimes dream of tearing apart Rosegarden to its component blocks and rebuilding it more neatly -- but I will surely never do it. Chris From robin at gareus.org Wed Apr 2 16:01:53 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 18:01:53 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140402155549.70bffb40@Scrapyard.lan> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533C31C5.7060408@gareus.org> <20140402155549.70bffb40@Scrapyard.lan> Message-ID: <533C3471.3060704@gareus.org> On 04/02/2014 05:55 PM, James Morris wrote: > On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 17:50:29 +0200 > Robin Gareus wrote: > >> Anyway back on subject. >> >> I think what we learned in this thread is that the expectations of >> many [potential] linux audio users does not match the idea that many >> developers have in mind. >> > > Also, we learn some people think their snobbish opinions about music > matter. > We might be able to do something about the former, the latter is much harder. best, robin From sakrecoer at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 16:17:13 2014 From: sakrecoer at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Set_Hallstr=C3=B6m?=) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 18:17:13 +0200 Subject: [LAU] OT In-Reply-To: <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> Message-ID: > > On 02/04/14 10:28, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> >>> Since the Bitwig thread moved from a software to musical point of view >>> debate, every Rock musician of my age (born in 1966) in Germany knows >>> Radio Birdman, but too funny, in Australia it seems to be a less known >>> band. >>> >>> Musicians note: A prophet has no honor in his own country! :D >> >> I was hopeing this thread was about a linux editor for the OctaTrack.... Nah well.... :D I thought prophets had no honour on their own planet: don't they have to die first? As for Radio Birdman, i'm swedish and my next planned action is to find out who they are :) Bring it on gogol! Peace! -- Set Hallstr?m AKA reSet Sakrecoer http://sakrecoer.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linux at alextone.info Wed Apr 2 16:30:27 2014 From: linux at alextone.info (Alex) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 18:30:27 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533C3471.3060704@gareus.org> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533C31C5.7060408@gareus.org> <20140402155549.70bffb40@Scrapyard.lan> <533C3471.3060704@gareus.org> Message-ID: <533C3B23.4030408@alextone.info> On 04/02/2014 06:01 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: > On 04/02/2014 05:55 PM, James Morris wrote: >> On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 17:50:29 +0200 >> Robin Gareus wrote: >> >>> Anyway back on subject. >>> >>> I think what we learned in this thread is that the expectations of >>> many [potential] linux audio users does not match the idea that many >>> developers have in mind. >>> >> Also, we learn some people think their snobbish opinions about music >> matter. >> > We might be able to do something about the former, the latter is much > harder. > > best, > robin > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user I was reminded some time ago, by a developer, that LA is made up of devs choosing to scratch a particular itch, and they have the right to do that without having to answer to anyone. It was at that point that i took a step back, examined what i already have as an LA user, picked out what i could use in my particular use case, and discarded my efforts to present my use case, and offer user help with tutorials, wikis, etc.. to the rest, whose apps i don't use. It was a good reminder at the right time. I'm no longer trying to contribute my user experience to LA almost full time, which i did for over 5 years, with the personal and altruistic intent of widening potential user base. I came to realize that many devs don't want or need a bigger userbase, as their intent is not to chase users, but write code that suits themselves, be it for academic interest, personal use, enjoyment, whatever. I learned that my many years of "mainstream" user experience using commercial apps is not a desired commodity by all devs, in fact it's quite the contrary, as many LA devs seek new and exciting ways of designing their apps, and the way interested users might interact. It's their call, not mine, in other words. I finally "get it" about the user/dev relationship from most devs POV, and have tempered my user expectations accordingly. In fact, i don't expect anything anymore. If it works for me, then terrific, and i have done/will contribute to specific projects financially or with my time and effort while my user case is relevant. I have a lot more of my increasingly valuable time (as i get older) to pursue my own goals, rather than work for hours a day on "contributing", simply for assuming my experience is desired, or wanted by the majority of LA devs. I can only apologise to those devs who felt i was wasting their time, and missing their particular design point, or application design intent, over these last ten years. Lesson finally learnt. Alex. From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Wed Apr 2 16:36:24 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 18:36:24 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533C3471.3060704@gareus.org> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533C31C5.7060408@gareus.org> <20140402155549.70bffb40@Scrapyard.lan> <533C3471.3060704@gareus.org> Message-ID: >> I think what we learned in this thread is that the expectations of >> many [potential] linux audio users does not match the idea that many >> developers have in mind. That's not the whole story. Some developers have other goals then users of that project, ok. Users can complain or request features, which devs decline or ignore. But it's more often the case that a software project offers you a feature and it turns out that it doesn't work in itself or not in the ecosystem of linuxaudio. That ecosystem is often the problem, e.g. plugin not working in a certain host, or in modular environment, one bad behaving client is killing the chain. We could try to make this part better. On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 6:01 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: > On 04/02/2014 05:55 PM, James Morris wrote: > > On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 17:50:29 +0200 > > Robin Gareus wrote: > > > >> Anyway back on subject. > >> > >> I think what we learned in this thread is that the expectations of > >> many [potential] linux audio users does not match the idea that many > >> developers have in mind. > >> > > > > Also, we learn some people think their snobbish opinions about music > > matter. > > > > We might be able to do something about the former, the latter is much > harder. > > best, > robin > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zettberlin at linuxuse.de Wed Apr 2 17:11:47 2014 From: zettberlin at linuxuse.de (Hartmut Noack) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 19:11:47 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533C31C5.7060408@gareus.org> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533C31C5.7060408@gareus.org> Message-ID: <533C44D3.4080108@linuxuse.de> Am 02.04.2014 17:50, schrieb Robin Gareus: > On 04/01/2014 03:40 PM, James Harkins wrote: >> Alexandre Prokoudine writes: > [..] >>> >>> Gordon basically summarized (in a rather arguable manner) a point that >>> we've discussed time and time again: if Linux audio is for geeks or >>> for full-time musicians. > > apples vs oranges. If you're a casual blues guitarist, linux audio is > about as useful to you as a Bassoon :) > > > [.. description of an algorithmic composition ..] >> >> The point being that this sort of geekery a/ comes directly from a musical >> impulse (I can hear if the implementation isn't doing what I heard in my head) >> and b/ is grounded in a musical understanding of harmony (in fact, it models >> part of my thought process when I'm writing harmony by hand). But never mind >> that -- > > Actually, I do mind. > > This is a very nice real-world example. You have an idea, managed to > describe it using abstract concepts which in turn can be formulated in a > language which - in this case - is interpreted by a computer. There's > nothing *geeky* about it at all. > >> if I were writing dots on paper and debating whether to use >> interlocking woodwind voicing or not, THAT sort of geekery would be perfectly >> musical, but the fact that this particular music geekery is in SC means that >> it's... what was the phrase? "Autistic savant computer genius" territory. > > exactly. > > In some cases can do away with pen and papers, too. Just shout the idea > to the musicians next to you during a jam-session in whatever language > they understand. > > I still find it hard to accept that creative people prefer a > point-and-drool user interface to express and realize their ideas. > > > >> I don't know Bitwig, so I have no basis to evaluate Robin's assertion that >> it's a "toy." > > I chose the word 'toy' carefully. You can have fun with toys, play with > toys and use them creatively. However, toys are usually limiting, > limited and often unreliable. Bitwig is not that limited. In fact it has more opportunities under the hood than most musicians will even search for. Of course it can happen, that a musician does not find one or more opportunities in it, that he/she would like to have. I do not find a opportunity to edit and arrange samples as flexible and convenient as I find it in Ardour but I see opportunities for working with loops and automatisation that surpass Ardour. Yet I do not need those as much as the former named editing features, so I see, that Bitwig can do a lot but still choose Ardour for it suits *me* better(plus: I am a zealot, I use free software excluselively...). Others will find the MIDI/Automatisation features more attractive. In any case: Music should not follow tools, to limit possibilities can be a sane choice but to make music in a certain way, because a tool favours that way, is questionable at best. If a musician with a strong vision uses Bitwig (or Ardour or CSound), he/she will find the ways in the software, that support his/her vision. And what LA can learn from Bitwig is IMHO: make a concept, implement it to the full, make it stable, reliable and give it a understandable interface. As easy as possible, but not easier.... > > Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for the Bitwig team to > pull this off this project. > > > Anyway back on subject. > > I think what we learned in this thread is that the expectations of many > [potential] linux audio users does not match the idea that many > developers have in mind. This may or may not be true. It at all, then the free audio scene who writes software for Linux has a tendency towards some more individuality than usual. But if the individual pattern between the dev and the musician match(for me this would be Ardour, Guitarix, AMS, Seq24 and some others), the musician gets exactly what he/she wants, even more perfectly than any marketing-crew could find out for Steinberg... > > Now, that's a bold provocative statement, but there you go. > > 2c, > robin > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Wed Apr 2 17:46:06 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 18:46:06 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it (slightly O/T) In-Reply-To: <1396454506.10989.101929065.2F2AA2F1@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <1396454506.10989.101929065.2F2AA2F1@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20140402184606.359cf8b9@debian> On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 17:01:46 +0100 Chris Cannam wrote: > I've been away from the coalface for a bit; it might be interesting to > take stock and see whether there is a more obvious right way to do it by > now. I suspect it would start by canning the ALSA MIDI support and going > JACK-only, since ALSA MIDI support contributes much of the complexity of > Rosegarden's sequencer code, but I don't really know. Like any developer > who worked too long on a project, I sometimes dream of tearing apart > Rosegarden to its component blocks and rebuilding it more neatly -- but > I will surely never do it. > > > Chris Hi Chris, Nice to see you here again - and talking about Rosegarden after so long! This MIDI issue strikes a chord with me. As a new and (very) green dev for yoshimi, functionality that I want to add, looks comparatively straightforward with JACK, but a right can of worms with ALSA MIDI :( -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Wed Apr 2 17:52:37 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 18:52:37 +0100 Subject: [LAU] regarding "quick & efficient" In-Reply-To: <533C06D8.1000601@woh.rr.com> References: <533C06D8.1000601@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <20140402185237.5bd8ccce@debian> On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 08:47:20 -0400 Dave Phillips wrote: > Greetings, > > Reading an interview with Philippe Leroux in the Computer Music Journal, > when asked about spending 20 months on a 20-minute piece he replied : > > "I try to spend as much time as I can with each piece before letting it > go into the world, so to speak. That allows me to re-read, to correct, > to refine the details, to add little things that enrich the musical > discourse in a manner that allows for as many levels of perception of > the work as possible during the process of composing. I like to have a > profound understanding of the piece; it is a daily two-way communication > that I sustain with it. That allows me to get to compositional levels > that are just not possible when you compose something fast. Then again, > having said that, in the real world, some works are written a lot faster > than that." > > Best, > > dp Months? MONTHS!!! Some of my stuff has taken years to (maybe) complete :) -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Apr 2 17:59:28 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 19:59:28 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533C3471.3060704@gareus.org> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533C31C5.7060408@gareus.org> <20140402155549.70bffb40@Scrapyard.lan> <533C3471.3060704@gareus.org> Message-ID: <1396461568.594.136.camel@archlinux> On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 18:01 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > On 04/02/2014 05:55 PM, James Morris wrote: > > On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 17:50:29 +0200 > > Robin Gareus wrote: > > > >> Anyway back on subject. > >> > >> I think what we learned in this thread is that the expectations of > >> many [potential] linux audio users does not match the idea that many > >> developers have in mind. > >> > > > > Also, we learn some people think their snobbish opinions about music > > matter. > > > > We might be able to do something about the former, the latter is much > harder. Our opinions about music (snobbish or not snobbish) determine the different work-flows we have got. Ignoring opinions about music does cause the lack. You can not fix technical issues by ignoring the cause and by calling the people who use the software snobs. ;) From cannam at all-day-breakfast.com Wed Apr 2 21:25:08 2014 From: cannam at all-day-breakfast.com (Chris Cannam) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 22:25:08 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it (slightly O/T) In-Reply-To: <20140402184606.359cf8b9@debian> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <1396454506.10989.101929065.2F2AA2F1@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20140402184606.359cf8b9@debian> Message-ID: <1396473908.22895.102060529.621E4109@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Wed, Apr 2, 2014, at 06:46 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > Nice to see you here again - and talking about Rosegarden after so long! I never quite left. I did think of submitting a piece to the Linux Audio Conference about what we did with Rosegarden (and surrounding activities) and where it went wrong. Of course, much of it went very right -- Rosegarden is still widely used and actively maintained even though none of the early team are really involved any more -- but the wrong stuff is more fun. I didn't though, not this year. But I am going to LAC! At least, some of it. Having not managed to show up there since 2008, I find it quite exciting. Chris From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Wed Apr 2 21:34:00 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 22:34:00 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it (slightly O/T) In-Reply-To: <1396473908.22895.102060529.621E4109@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <1396454506.10989.101929065.2F2AA2F1@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20140402184606.359cf8b9@debian> <1396473908.22895.102060529.621E4109@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20140402223400.75c1227d@debian> On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 22:25:08 +0100 Chris Cannam wrote: > > But I am going to LAC! At least, some of it. Having not managed to show > up there since 2008, I find it quite exciting. > > > Chris We might get a chance for a chat then ... unless you see me first :) -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From murks at tuxfamily.org Wed Apr 2 23:17:24 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 01:17:24 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [OT] Re: Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <1396423504.594.32.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <20140403011724.79f4c32d@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Wed, 02 Apr 2014 09:25:04 +0200 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 08:48 +0200, Tim Goetze wrote: > > [Fons Adriaensen] > > >If music is about 'communicating' anything, it should probably > > >(IMHO) first communicate itself. There's nothing more boring > > >than an artist trying to communicate his or her very personal > > >feelings, be they sorrow or anger. The very least you need is > > >a wider context that is relevant to others, and the music (or > > >any form of art) that will most strongly communicate anything > > >but itself will be the one that in which the creator himself > > >disappears completely. > > > > To quote Miles Davis, "I think people want to hear music and think > > what they want to think." > > > > (I think this is especially true for live performances. I -- like > > probably most of us -- hold dear a couple of recordings exactly > > because they so strongly express a particular emotion or state of > > mind.) > > "Ausdruck befreit vom Sinn" (translated something like "Expression > freed from any statement") - more or less the words of Christoph > Schlingensief > > I can't agree with this as something good, it's evil, music is alive > when there is a statement, when there are emotions by the artist who > makes the music. > > Music made without personal feelings is a lie, a long time before we > got scripted reality television, humans already made music comparable > to scripted reality. > > It's even better to make music with emotions that belong to the couch > doctor, than to follow Fons ideology. Sure, the musician must be able > to stand the feedback of the audience. Take a look at old Black Flag > videos, Henry Rollins has been laughed at. They double up with > laughter, years later the same people who made jokes about him, > became Fans of Rollins Band. > > There's no need for music to describe reality, but even fantasy > stories without political or psychopathological statement needs true > emotions. > > If the creator disappears completely, how should the music get alive? Well, have fun with 'good' and 'evil'... How, pray tell, would you know what the feelings of the composer or performer was when you hear a recording? Which one matters? I'd say that this is something you can't tell, good luck with that approach. Regards, Philipp From gurusonic at gmail.com Thu Apr 3 00:17:04 2014 From: gurusonic at gmail.com (Roger) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2014 11:17:04 +1100 Subject: [LAU] OT In-Reply-To: References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <533CA880.6040906@gmail.com> On 03/04/14 03:17, Set Hallstr?m wrote: Nah well.... :D I thought prophets had no honour on their own planet: don't they have to die first? As for Radio Birdman, i'm swedish and my next planned action is to find out who they are :) Bring it on gogol! > Think Stooges or Ramones, but better! Well sometimes. ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Jjg-5ouaI Cheers mates Roger From gurusonic at gmail.com Thu Apr 3 00:34:10 2014 From: gurusonic at gmail.com (Roger) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2014 11:34:10 +1100 Subject: [LAU] Aussie Rock - (was OT) In-Reply-To: References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <533CAC82.1080605@gmail.com> Nah well.... :D I thought prophets had no honour on their own planet: don't they have to die first? > As for Radio Birdman, i'm swedish and my next planned action is to > find out who they are :) Bring it on gogol! > > Peace! PS. while we're on Aussie rock, check out the Cosmic Psychos - great raw rock band still going after nearly 30 years. I had the pleasure of doing their FOH sound for many years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsDGuL_ruuE And another band I did FOH sound for, The Mark of Cain. Driving, intense, awesome! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kp0if5O19T4 Roger From len at ovenwerks.net Thu Apr 3 00:58:26 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2014 17:58:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533C31C5.7060408@gareus.org> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <533C31C5.7060408@gareus.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 Apr 2014, Robin Gareus wrote: > On 04/01/2014 03:40 PM, James Harkins wrote: >> Alexandre Prokoudine writes: > [..] >>> >>> Gordon basically summarized (in a rather arguable manner) a point that >>> we've discussed time and time again: if Linux audio is for geeks or >>> for full-time musicians. > > apples vs oranges. If you're a casual blues guitarist, linux audio is > about as useful to you as a Bassoon :) Apples vs. penguins? :P Not meant to only reflect on this quote, but other comments too. If you're a casual blues guitarist, any computer OS/sw combination might be less useful than a bassoon. Computer music in general assumes some level of computer literacy. I personally find myself lost on a windows system (worse on an apple) till I "figure it out". Many people who use Linux start on an Apple or Windows system and move for some reason. I have never used either for my personal computing... I started on a sinclair, TI, Atari mega (where I learned about midi)... I learned enough about drdos6 to run a BBS which moved to OS/2 (2.*) because a friend who was using windows had to set a timer to kill his windows machine every day so he could go on holidays... Ya, windows 3.1. About 1993 or 4 I was looking at adding ethernet to OS/2 and figured out it would cost more for the drivers than I had paid for the OS and someone suggested Linux where I have been every since. I grew up on a Linux where any install included rolling a kernel that actually worked with my HW and where most computing was done CLI and X was started once in a while for the very few GUI programs around at the time. (slackware as happens) Linux/Gnu has come a long way since. Anyway, I have a skewed idea of how things should work... at least if you are used to a mac... and not saying one is better than the other either, just Linux is right for me. Anyway, all that to say... I had difficulty getting bitwig to make noise. It was not intuitive for me, I don't know that it was a lot harder than the first time I tried qtractor (ardour was midiless at the time), but, I am used to a tape studio both by my long ago broadcast training and work (which I have forgotten most of) but also from 8 track/hw sequencer years. The idea of having to connect an output to a sound module makes more sense to me than expecting the sequencer to make noice (nothing about right or wrong, just my personal expectations). Bitwig for me: - can't be run on my 32bit music machine. - has too much stuff which makes what I want hard to find - I found it difficult to use, but I am at the bottom of the learning curve, That would change quickly from some of the other comments in this thread. - could not see a running jack server - would not connect to alsa though it could see it. - Did work with pulse... and lots of xruns if I moved the mouse etc. Not a great first impression, but, having used Ardour and other DAWs, I can at least sort of see where it is going. I could learn it and make it work. It is more useful to me right off than LMMS, for example. I could, if it was what I had and no other choice, do anything I have done so far on it. I would have to learn it, but if it was what I had, I would learn it pretty quick. I am not saying any of my problems were bitwig's fault, in fact I expect they are all mine. In all honesty, I expect I would be quite happy using bitwig connected to alsa directly for almost all of my use cases. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 3 04:59:10 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 18:59:10 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396454506.10989.101929065.2F2AA2F1@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <533817DB.9090503@gmail.com> <53394213.5080701@gareus.org> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <1396454506.10989.101929065.2F2AA2F1@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <533CEA9E.507@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/02/2014 06:01 AM, Chris Cannam wrote: > For example, a default track used General MIDI program names and no GM > soundfont was available under a suitable licence. You mean the Fluid R3 sound font license prevents Linux audio apps from using it? -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 3 05:26:25 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 19:26:25 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> Message-ID: <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/02/2014 01:20 AM, Simon Wise wrote: > >>> >>> Rock/Pop music is performance art, the "Rockstar" is a role, that is >>> played by someone, who happens to sing/play at the same time. The result >>> is not music in the sense of Bach or Mahler but still relevant art if >>> done right. >> >> But Bach and Mahler and many (if not most) of what we now consider >> "classical >> and/or/great" musicians wrote for the same reason: to write something >> that >> people would pay money for. In Bach's day, the only people who had the >> money >> were far fewer than today's horde of music listeners. In that sense, the >> composer was performance art; Mozart, for example. > > any opera especially, big stagey spectaculars to pull in the box office. > That a just continued a very very old tradition, but its only one part > of music. Who knows, maybe 300-400 years from know, today's rock operas will be high opera! Complete with the fat lady singing and scholarly musicologists writing dissertations on the use of pinball machines as musical instruments... -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 3 05:35:11 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2014 19:35:11 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533BD6FD.1030704@linuxuse.de> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BD6FD.1030704@linuxuse.de> Message-ID: <533CF30F.60605@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/01/2014 11:23 PM, Hartmut Noack wrote: > Am 02.04.2014 10:18, schrieb david: >> On 04/01/2014 09:21 PM, Hartmut Noack wrote: >>> Am 01.04.2014 23:47, schrieb Fons Adriaensen: >>>> On Tue, Apr 01, 2014 at 10:57:44PM +0200, Hartmut Noack wrote: >>>> >>>>> Am 31.03.2014 23:03, schrieb Len Ovens: >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 31 Mar 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Music isn't a competition about smartness. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think that is what was being said. Music today seems to be no longer >>>>>> about communicating anything at all... merely soundiing somewhat pleasant, >>>>>> or showing off some vocal (or other) gymnastics seems to be most of it. >>>>> >>>>> I dont see that. I think, that today music is in the best shape I >>>>> experienced since I taped the radio shows in memoriam John Lennon back >>>>> in 1981. >>>> >>>> There's a daily program on RAI radio 3 (the cultural channel here >>>> in Italy) called 'alza il volume' or in plain English 'pump up the >>>> volume'. It keeps a look on the 'non mainstream' music scene. Much >>>> of what it outputs is just entertaining and at times plainly boring, >>>> but every now and then there will be some real gems. And most of >>>> those gems are very probably produced using software such as Bitwig, >>> >>> I think, where the attitude of a musician reaches the point of "I know, >>> what to do and I will do it just right." the choice to tools becomes >>> liquid again: there are some great recodings today that are made on >>> antique 4-Track tapes, Portishead use a hardware HD-recorder from the >>> 90ies, most will use Pro Tools though... >>> >>> >>>> and would not exists without it. So in that sense you are certainly >>>> right, this *is* an interesting time for music production, at no >>>> time before there was such a range of tools available as we have >>>> today. But at the same time there's an incredible number of people >>>> who are using these tools but absolutely fail to produce anything >>>> that stands out, to put it mildly. >>>> >>>> If music is about 'communicating' anything, it should probably >>>> (IMHO) first communicate itself. >>> >>> Absolutely! I want to hear music, that speaks for itself, before I >>> accept thoughts and feelings transported by it. Anyway it is all about >>> individuality plus love for music, both combined will almost >>> automatically reject any boring standardisation and enable the artist to >>> produce something worth listening to with *any* tool that offers the >>> needed flexibility to fit the vision. >>> >>>> There's nothing more boring >>>> than an artist trying to communicate his or her very personal >>>> feelings, be they sorrow or anger. The very least you need is >>>> a wider context that is relevant to others, and the music (or >>>> any form of art) that will most strongly communicate anything >>>> but itself will be the one that in which the creator himself >>>> disappears completely. >>> >>> Rock/Pop music is performance art, the "Rockstar" is a role, that is >>> played by someone, who happens to sing/play at the same time. The result >>> is not music in the sense of Bach or Mahler but still relevant art if >>> done right. >> >> But Bach and Mahler and many (if not most) of what we now consider >> "classical and/or/great" musicians wrote for the same reason: to write >> something that people would pay money for. > > No, they wrote the music to become famous enough to get a well-paid job. > Some tunes they where paid for directly but that was: "Oh, I am lucky > enough to have this famous Gustav Mahler being kind enough to write > music for my humble orchestra." And there was no producer, who > controlled and influenced the writing and if the work would not be > asuccess, it may have had impact on the the fame of the composer but not > the payment directly. > > Bach wrote some of his now most famous(and influential) works for the > drawer as some kind of theoretical research on contrapunctus etc The art > of the fuge was seldom performed in his day for a small circle,of > specialists. Another thing: in those days, the composer was usually the conductor, too. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From blablack at gmail.com Thu Apr 3 13:56:55 2014 From: blablack at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Aur=E9lien_Leblond?=) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 14:56:55 +0100 Subject: [LAU] What I learned from Bitwig Message-ID: I used Bitwig demo for 30 minutes - from the video presentations I found it looks like a tool that could really fit my workflow (I hope by saying that I'm not going to start another massive discussion about what is a real musician or not...). I just hope that these 2 cents would show why I decided to try the demo, why I didn't stick with it (and spent the 300 EURO) and why I wish I could have. --== Why I tried the demo - because there are lots of videos of it on Youtube! ==-- Trying software takes time - as Fons and others mentionned before, using music software to see if they fit what I want takes time and effort... And I admit, I'm lazy...and I like to spend my time at other things than trying software for hours to realise it is not what I want... So I checked demos on Youtube... In 10 minutes I can see a summary of what it can do, how is the workflow, how it sounds and I make a decision if I'm going to try it or not (please please not judgement here, and I can't really be the only one!). A colleague of mine who is an amateur musician (Windows) as well told me the last software he bought, he chose it because it had more Youtube tutorials than others (again, we can judge all we want that process, but that's the way people roll...). I have started to do that with ams-lv2 and other plugins that I have have worked on... 5-10 minutes video on youtube, takes me 2 to 3 hours to do (and I'm sure I'm going to get faster at it... or hope anyway) but I had a few friends comment that it gave them a good idea as to what can be done with Ingen and that they would like to try it (I'm sure with a gentle push I'll get one to install GNU Linux and try the audio suite!). So yeah... my first 0.66 cents... we should make more videos/demos/tutorials of our tools/workflow/sound to show case. --== Why I didn't stick with it - wait...what??? no jack transport!!! ==-- I can do without LADSPA.... I can do without LV2 if I know it's coming... but no jack transport...nope...sorry...need that... I knew Jack is powerful... I knew it by using it, I knew it because other musicians who used it on my machine were impressed. And now I know it even more because I can't live with it for more than 5 minutes! I use Hydrogen, Seq24 and other tools I sync through Jack way too much... So yeah... Jack is awesome... All Hail to Jack! --== Why I wish I could use it - GOD this thing is simple ==-- I'm not ashamed to say it - when I record/play/compose music, I want to focus on the music, not the software! After a few minutes in Bitwig, I had a few synths running in midi,etc... Despite my second point about Jack, one thing that always annoyed me is the connections between software... Hydrogen Snare going to Ingen for sound processing while the rest goes through Rackarrack for more processing and then recording that back... takes a lot of connection to setup! And if one of those app crash, I'm back to recreate every connection. (Now, I can see you behind your screens "HEY WE HAVE TOOLS FOR THAT"... keep reading...) So I thought to myself "Damn, Bitwig is easy and slick and intuitive..." And then I thought a bit more "there must be a solution for that"... I checked on Google... Cool Gladish, that looks like what I want... Let's check on Youtube a demo....ah....none (except one in Spanish... a language I don't speak)... So back to my first point there! Now since then I have installed Gladish and tried it out and after 20-30 minutes found out that's what I need. DISCLAIMER - This is only my opinion... And YES, I do admit it, I'm lazy... Being a musician is not my job... It's a hobby... That I do after long day of work... But then again... I'm probably not wrong by saying that a lot of musician user base is in that case... From tim at klingt.org Thu Apr 3 15:56:28 2014 From: tim at klingt.org (Tim Blechmann) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2014 17:56:28 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: >>> Rui, Harry and many other developers care a lot about user feedback >>> too :). That's the good thing when using Linux audio. The chance to talk >>> to the developers of proprietary software is virtually zero. >> >> in this regard, you may want to distinguish between a company of 50000 >> people like yamaha (steinberg), 3000 people like avid (protools) and >> companies like bitwig or cockos (each having about 3 developers). > > Ok, true and while some companies don't care about the averaged > customer, they care if you call them when working for another company. > When I worked for Brauner I could call some companies and they listened > to me, but they won't listen to me, when I call them privately. That's > not bad at all, since if you call company B while working for company A > the averaged user will benefit too. But if you talk to companies there > always is a communication chain, while for Linux audio we usually can > directly get in contact with the developers, that's a nice advantage. well, it is nice being able to talk to a dev, but it does not necessarily help: e.g. i once contacted a developer of some ladspa plugins that the filters get unstable, getting the wonderful answer like: i just implemented some textbook formular, i don't know what this kind of filter is and have no understanding about DSP ... of course he did not care about fixing bugs or making sure that fixes will make it into distributions ... tim From hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com Thu Apr 3 18:47:57 2014 From: hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com (Russell Hanaghan) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 11:47:57 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Album recording layout... Message-ID: <124BF637-A677-448C-B0FC-AA1D09502C88@gmail.com> Hi! Looking for input on how you lay out your recorded material for an album in Ardour / Mixbus. Eg; 1 song per session? All tunes in same session? Snapshots? Oh, just one polite request should anyone choose to reply; stay on topic!! :) the bitwig ramblings are a good example. Thnx ~ Russell From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 3 19:34:01 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2014 09:34:01 -1000 Subject: [LAU] What I learned from Bitwig In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <533DB7A9.6000305@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/03/2014 03:56 AM, Aur?lien Leblond wrote: > I used Bitwig demo for 30 minutes - from the video presentations I > found it looks like a tool that could really fit my workflow (I hope > by saying that I'm not going to start another massive discussion about > what is a real musician or not...). > > I just hope that these 2 cents would show why I decided to try the > demo, why I didn't stick with it (and spent the 300 EURO) and why I wish I > could have. > > > --== Why I tried the demo - because there are lots of videos of it on > Youtube! ==-- > > Trying software takes time - as Fons and others mentionned before, > using music software to see if they fit what I want takes time and > effort... And I admit, I'm lazy...and I like to spend my time at other > things than trying software for hours to realise it is not what I > want... So I checked demos on Youtube... In 10 minutes I can see a > summary of what it can do, how is the workflow, how it sounds and I > make a decision if I'm going to try it or not (please please not > judgement here, and I can't really be the only one!). > A colleague of mine who is an amateur musician (Windows) as well told > me the last software he bought, he chose it because it had more > Youtube tutorials than others (again, we can judge all we want that > process, but that's the way people roll...). > > I have started to do that with ams-lv2 and other plugins that I have > have worked on... 5-10 minutes video on youtube, takes me 2 to 3 hours > to do (and I'm sure I'm going to get faster at it... or hope anyway) > but I had a few friends comment that it gave them a good idea as to > what can be done with Ingen and that they would like to try it (I'm > sure with a gentle push I'll get one to install GNU Linux and try the > audio suite!). > > So yeah... my first 0.66 cents... we should make more > videos/demos/tutorials of our tools/workflow/sound to show case. About learning via videos: Demos, OK. But how to do something specific with it? I've used products at my office that think online help should all be video. What a waste of time! I learn much faster from good documentation (another Achille's heel for a lot of Linux software. I'd rather have good documentation. On my shiny new Haswell laptop, I can either have JACK running and do audio, or listen to the soundtrack of a YT video. In both cases, the only way the YT video runs is if I click on the video window and constantly move it around. Something to do with the "not-quite-there-yet" Haswell graphics support, I guess. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From bjb-linux-audio-user at deus.net Thu Apr 3 21:46:22 2014 From: bjb-linux-audio-user at deus.net (Ben Bell) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 22:46:22 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Album recording layout... In-Reply-To: <124BF637-A677-448C-B0FC-AA1D09502C88@gmail.com> References: <124BF637-A677-448C-B0FC-AA1D09502C88@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140403214637.D88E262046@lists.linuxaudio.org> On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 11:47:57AM -0700, Russell Hanaghan wrote: > Looking for input on how you lay out your recorded material for an album in > Ardour / Mixbus. Eg; 1 song per session? All tunes in same session? In a nutshell, I go with separate projects for each song and mix down with no fades, trimming or mastering, then import (link, not copy) those individual tracks into separate project for arranging into an album. This may be a bit of an overkill for some people, but the music I tend to record is very much intended to be presented as a full album with segues and a flow, so making too many decisions at song mixdown is too limiting. Conversely, there's too many parts and too much complexity to have the entire album in a single project. In fact, for the next album (when I finally finish this one), I'm thinking of going one step further and, when I've finished composing and recording, stem-exporting all the parts into a fresh project for mixing from scratch to get a bit more perspective on it. bjb From idragosani at gmail.com Thu Apr 3 22:24:32 2014 From: idragosani at gmail.com (Brett McCoy) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 18:24:32 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Album recording layout... In-Reply-To: <20140403214637.D88E262046@lists.linuxaudio.org> References: <124BF637-A677-448C-B0FC-AA1D09502C88@gmail.com> <20140403214637.D88E262046@lists.linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 5:46 PM, Ben Bell wrote: On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 11:47:57AM -0700, Russell Hanaghan wrote: > > Looking for input on how you lay out your recorded material for an album > in > > Ardour / Mixbus. Eg; 1 song per session? All tunes in same session? > > In a nutshell, I go with separate projects for each song and mix down with > no fades, trimming or mastering, then import (link, not copy) those > individual > tracks into separate project for arranging into an album. > > This may be a bit of an overkill for some people, but the music I tend to > record is very much intended to be presented as a full album with segues > and a flow, so making too many decisions at song mixdown is too limiting. > > Conversely, there's too many parts and too much complexity to have the > entire album in a single project. In fact, for the next album (when I > finally finish this one), I'm thinking of going one step further and, when > I've finished composing and recording, stem-exporting all the parts into > a fresh project for mixing from scratch to get a bit more perspective on > it. > > That's the way I do it, too. In fact, for some songs that are long and comples and I am going full on prog (or different movements of something symphonic), I will record a bridge/extended instrumental section as a separate session also and assemble it in a timeline with the rest of the mixed tracks to prepare for mastering. The real key to putting together an album is to plan out ahead of time as much as you can. I will create a quick MIDI mockups for a lot of stuff, just to get the parts worked out, tempos where I like them, etc., so when it comes time to record, I can focus on the music rather than trying to arrange on the fly. Of course, happy mistakes happen and you might stumble upon new ideas while mixing, as well. -- Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world." -- Jelaleddin Rumi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From djdualcore at gmail.com Thu Apr 3 23:05:48 2014 From: djdualcore at gmail.com (Neil) Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 18:05:48 -0500 Subject: [LAU] REX2 format support on Linux Message-ID: Back when I was working on a Mac I bought a lot of REX2 drum loops. Is anyone aware of any Linux software that can play and or convert REX2? I know I can run Windows apps in Wine, but I don't want to. I'm looking for a native Linux application, utility, plugin, etc.. Neil -- DJ Dual Core's Blog http://oldmixtapes.blogspot.com/ Order without government; Peace without violence. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simonzwise at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 02:13:17 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2014 13:13:17 +1100 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> On 04/04/14 02:56, Tim Blechmann wrote: > well, it is nice being able to talk to a dev, but it does not > necessarily help: e.g. i once contacted a developer of some ladspa > plugins that the filters get unstable, getting the wonderful answer > like: i just implemented some textbook formular, i don't know what this > kind of filter is and have no understanding about DSP ... of course he > did not care about fixing bugs or making sure that fixes will make it > into distributions ... Where anyone can publish anything of course the user needs to do a fair bit of work filtering the worthwhile from the useless. That takes quite a lot of commitment and time as well as a deeper understanding the field. It is much easier to let someone else choose for you (perhaps pay them to do it), they'll give you something ready to use for the situations they are catering for. But then you are stuck with their notion of what is worthwhile, and whatever other agenda they have (e.g. extracting ongoing profits from their users). I'll put the time in to learn and choose myself, but it isn't quick or easy, just the way I prefer to work, as much because it leads to that deeper understanding of the field as anything else. Simon From sakrecoer at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 05:04:47 2014 From: sakrecoer at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Set_Hallstr=C3=B6m?=) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 07:04:47 +0200 Subject: [LAU] OT In-Reply-To: <533CA880.6040906@gmail.com> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <533CA880.6040906@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 2:17 AM, Roger wrote: > > >> Think Stooges or Ramones, but better! Well sometimes. ;) > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5Jjg-5ouaI > > Cheers mates > Roger > > Thanks Roger! I like the one you picked!!! Whats the name of the theme they pop in the middle again? Your description is pertinent! I added them to my "worthy rock" list :D good stuff! -- Set Hallstr?m AKA reSet Sakrecoer http://sakrecoer.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sakrecoer at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 05:19:28 2014 From: sakrecoer at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Set_Hallstr=C3=B6m?=) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 07:19:28 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Album recording layout... In-Reply-To: <124BF637-A677-448C-B0FC-AA1D09502C88@gmail.com> References: <124BF637-A677-448C-B0FC-AA1D09502C88@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi, I use Ardour. One project per track. Once all these are arranged mixed and exported to an "album master folder" (which in addition to the project fodlers also contain everything usefull to the record, such as album art and text material), i use another ardour project for the mastering with JAMin. Hope this is helpfull to someone. -- Set Hallstr?m AKA reSet Sakrecoer http://sakrecoer.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbannister at slingshot.co.nz Fri Apr 4 06:26:24 2014 From: cbannister at slingshot.co.nz (Chris Bannister) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 19:26:24 +1300 Subject: [LAU] OT In-Reply-To: <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 10:02:29PM +1100, Simon Wise wrote: > On 02/04/14 21:54, Simon Wise wrote: > >On 02/04/14 10:28, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >>Since the Bitwig thread moved from a software to musical point of view > >>debate, every Rock musician of my age (born in 1966) in Germany knows > >>Radio Birdman, but too funny, in Australia it seems to be a less known > >>band. > >> > >>Musicians note: A prophet has no honor in his own country! :D > > > >not at all ... they were very well known and respected ... I'm a bit older, and > >was part of a student radio station in Sydney around 1980. > > > > we recorded a lot of local stuff, and at one stage broadcast a series > looking at the history of the local live scene (basically interviews and > recordings covering a large slab of the 70s scene here), a big part of that > at the time was very influenced by radio birdman, a lot had moved down from > brisbane a few years earlier. Remember that "Crowded House" is a New Zealand Band! :) -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X From harryhaaren at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 07:04:26 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 08:04:26 +0100 Subject: [LAU] REX2 format support on Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: AFAIK its not an open standard: id like to support them in Luppp, but there is no way to load them (that I'm aware of...) HTH, -Harry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alexandre.prokoudine at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 07:15:58 2014 From: alexandre.prokoudine at gmail.com (Alexandre Prokoudine) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 11:15:58 +0400 Subject: [LAU] REX2 format support on Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 11:04 AM, Harry van Haaren wrote: > AFAIK its not an open standard: Yup, it's not. > id like to support them in Luppp, but there > is no way to load them (that I'm aware of...) There's some initial support for those in libsndfile, and we (re-lab) tried to parse more. See the current code: https://gitorious.org/re-lab/tools/source/4abfe2217b7bc0049f627c027a7987ac60181805:oletoy/rx2.py But some chunks appear to be encrypted, so there's still more work to do. Alexandre From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Fri Apr 4 08:15:29 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2014 22:15:29 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140404075833.GE26381@tal> References: <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404075833.GE26381@tal> Message-ID: <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/03/2014 09:58 PM, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 07:26:25PM -1000, david wrote: >> Who knows, maybe 300-400 years from know, today's rock operas will be high >> opera! Complete with the fat lady singing and scholarly musicologists >> writing dissertations on the use of pinball machines as musical >> instruments... > > Ummm, it has already been done! Tommy. :) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who's_Tommy > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfZQLXs72Lo Thanks, only that's a musical, not an opera. ;-) Of course, at the rate that English has been changing over the last 800-1000 years, by then our idea of English will probably be incomprehensible to whoever's alive then ... My guitar instructor in high school was lead guitarist in one of the local bands of the time. He wrote a rock opera and performed it with his band to get his Masters degree in Communications. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Fri Apr 4 08:23:56 2014 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 09:23:56 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> References: <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <20140404082356.GA29715@gjcp.net> On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 10:15:29PM -1000, david wrote: > On 04/03/2014 09:58 PM, Chris Bannister wrote: > >On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 07:26:25PM -1000, david wrote: > >>Who knows, maybe 300-400 years from know, today's rock operas will be high > >>opera! Complete with the fat lady singing and scholarly musicologists > >>writing dissertations on the use of pinball machines as musical > >>instruments... > > > >Ummm, it has already been done! Tommy. :) > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who's_Tommy > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfZQLXs72Lo > > Thanks, only that's a musical, not an opera. ;-) It's been a while since I've seen it, but isn't Tommy continuously musical with no (or very minimal) spoken dialogue, thereby making it an opera as distinct from a musical which would have spoken dialogue interspersed with songs sung by the cast? -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ From tim at klingt.org Fri Apr 4 08:58:17 2014 From: tim at klingt.org (Tim Blechmann) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2014 10:58:17 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> Message-ID: >> well, it is nice being able to talk to a dev, but it does not >> necessarily help: e.g. i once contacted a developer of some ladspa >> plugins that the filters get unstable, getting the wonderful answer >> like: i just implemented some textbook formular, i don't know what this >> kind of filter is and have no understanding about DSP ... of course he >> did not care about fixing bugs or making sure that fixes will make it >> into distributions ... > > Where anyone can publish anything of course the user needs to do a fair > bit of work filtering the worthwhile from the useless. replace 'useless' by 'broken' ... if you use have an unstable filter in your fx chain, you could either destroy your speakers or even worse: your ears. > That takes quite > a lot of commitment and time as well as a deeper understanding the > field. It is much easier to let someone else choose for you (perhaps pay > them to do it), they'll give you something ready to use for the > situations they are catering for. But then you are stuck with their > notion of what is worthwhile, and whatever other agenda they have (e.g. > extracting ongoing profits from their users). I'll put the time in to > learn and choose myself, but it isn't quick or easy, just the way I > prefer to work, as much because it leads to that deeper understanding of > the field as anything else. From fons at linuxaudio.org Fri Apr 4 09:59:21 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 09:59:21 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 10:58:17AM +0200, Tim Blechmann wrote: > > Where anyone can publish anything of course the user needs to do a fair > > bit of work filtering the worthwhile from the useless. > > replace 'useless' by 'broken' ... if you use have an unstable filter in > your fx chain, you could either destroy your speakers or even worse: > your ears. or someone else's speakers or ears. And having to do 'a fair bit of work' separating the crap from the usable isn't going to improve a potential user's workflow either, nor his first impression of what Linux Audio has to offer. It's not just filters oscillating. I've seen delay lines blow up, compressors going to infinite gain, and all sorts of things producing loud bangs when connected, activated or coonfigured. And those are just the potentially destructive 'features', we are not even discussing basic processing quality. Yet all this stuff gets distributed, listed on helpful websites (look ! hundreds of plugins !), and nobody feels the need to weed out the crap. Wonder why some people don't take Linux Audio seriously ? Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 10:31:08 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea.grammostola) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2014 12:31:08 +0200 Subject: [LAU] List of good linux plugins (was Bitwig: what we can learn from it) In-Reply-To: <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> References: <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <533E89EC.3070806@gmail.com> On 04/04/2014 11:59 AM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > Yet all this stuff gets distributed, listed on helpful websites > (look ! hundreds of plugins !), and nobody feels the need to > weed out the crap. Wonder why some people don't take Linux > Audio seriously ? Fons, could you make a list of plugins on Linux which are good in your opinion? Would be a handy starting list for users like me. Thanks in advance, \r From simonzwise at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 10:35:05 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2014 21:35:05 +1100 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> References: <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <533E8AD9.4060906@gmail.com> On 04/04/14 20:59, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 10:58:17AM +0200, Tim Blechmann wrote: > >>> Where anyone can publish anything of course the user needs to do a fair >>> bit of work filtering the worthwhile from the useless. >> >> replace 'useless' by 'broken' ... if you use have an unstable filter in >> your fx chain, you could either destroy your speakers or even worse: >> your ears. > > or someone else's speakers or ears. > > And having to do 'a fair bit of work' separating the crap from the > usable isn't going to improve a potential user's workflow either, > nor his first impression of what Linux Audio has to offer. > > It's not just filters oscillating. I've seen delay lines blow > up, compressors going to infinite gain, and all sorts of things > producing loud bangs when connected, activated or coonfigured. > And those are just the potentially destructive 'features', we > are not even discussing basic processing quality. > > Yet all this stuff gets distributed, listed on helpful websites > (look ! hundreds of plugins !), and nobody feels the need to > weed out the crap. Wonder why some people don't take Linux > Audio seriously ? there is a certain amount of weeding done, there have been media focussed distributions, and parts of distributions ... but no-one is in a position to stop rubbish being published. A walled garden is OK if it happens to have everything you need, you can afford the upkeep and you aren't the type of person who always wonders what else is possible. But linux audio as a whole can never be that ... a tightly controlled DAW could, and it could run on linux, but paying the gardeners isn't always so easy, and for some the wild places are more interesting anyway. Simon From cbannister at slingshot.co.nz Fri Apr 4 10:50:58 2014 From: cbannister at slingshot.co.nz (Chris Bannister) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 23:50:58 +1300 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> References: <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404075833.GE26381@tal> <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <20140404105057.GD30132@tal> On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 10:15:29PM -1000, david wrote: > On 04/03/2014 09:58 PM, Chris Bannister wrote: > >On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 07:26:25PM -1000, david wrote: > >>Who knows, maybe 300-400 years from know, today's rock operas will be high > >>opera! Complete with the fat lady singing and scholarly musicologists > >>writing dissertations on the use of pinball machines as musical > >>instruments... > > > >Ummm, it has already been done! Tommy. :) > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who's_Tommy > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfZQLXs72Lo > > Thanks, only that's a musical, not an opera. ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_(album) '... Tommy was the first musical work to be billed overtly as a rock opera.' *AND* he played pinball! Although, perhaps, not as an instrument. :) -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X From f111110101011 at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 13:32:17 2014 From: f111110101011 at gmail.com (0 1) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2014 15:32:17 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Jack+Debian RT] Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted Message-ID: <533EB461.7020904@gmail.com> Hello, I've been using a realtime kernel some time ago. I hadn't a very intensive use of it so I didn't even notice if its configuration was very right or wrong, it seemed fine, but I ended up uninstalling it and doing fine without. As of now I'm running Debian Jessie, and lately I've been trying the latest kernel Debian from their repos (currently, from wheezy-backports). However, JACK can't seem to get to work with realtime. Here is part of the log: 14:11:39.082 JACK d?marre... 14:11:39.083 /usr/bin/jackd -r -dalsa -r44100 -p512 -n2 -D -Chw:Pro,0 -Phw:Pro,0 Cannot connect to server socket err = Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started 14:11:39.110 JACK a ?t? d?marrer avec le PID=3903. Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted (1) Retrying messagebuffer thread without RT scheduling Messagebuffer not realtime; consider enabling RT scheduling for user no message buffer overruns Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted (1) Retrying messagebuffer thread without RT scheduling Messagebuffer not realtime; consider enabling RT scheduling for user no message buffer overruns Gtk-Message: (for origin information, set GTK_DEBUG): failed to retrieve property `GtkRange::activate-slider' of type `gboolean' from rc file value "((GString*) 0x1cb8c40)" of type `GString' Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted (1) Retrying messagebuffer thread without RT scheduling Messagebuffer not realtime; consider enabling RT scheduling for user no message buffer overruns jackdmp 1.9.10 Here is the content of /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf # Provided by the jackd package. # # Changes to this file will be preserved. # # If you want to enable/disable realtime permissions, run # # dpkg-reconfigure -p high jackd @audio - rtprio 95 @audio - memlock unlimited #@audio - nice -19 Note: the dpkg-reconfigure is "wrong" since in my case I use "jackd2". Content of /etc/default/rtirq: (...) # IRQ thread service names # (space separated list, from higher to lower priority). RTIRQ_NAME_LIST="rtc snd usb i8042" # Highest priority. RTIRQ_PRIO_HIGH=90 # Priority decrease step. RTIRQ_PRIO_DECR=5 # Lowest priority. RTIRQ_PRIO_LOW=51 # Whether to reset all IRQ threads to SCHED_OTHER. RTIRQ_RESET_ALL=0 # On kernel configurations that support it, # which services should be NOT threaded # (space separated list). RTIRQ_NON_THREADED="rtc snd" # Process names which will be forced to the # highest realtime priority range (99-91) # (space separated list, from highest to lower priority). # RTIRQ_HIGH_LIST="timer" Results of a few commands, $ uname -a Linux cacacomp 3.12-1-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 3.12.9-1+rt1 (2014-02-20) x86_64 GNU/Linux $ cat /boot/config-3.12-1-rt-amd64 | grep PREEMPT CONFIG_TREE_PREEMPT_RCU=y CONFIG_PREEMPT_RCU=y CONFIG_PREEMPT_NOTIFIERS=y CONFIG_PREEMPT=y CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT_BASE=y CONFIG_HAVE_PREEMPT_LAZY=y CONFIG_PREEMPT_LAZY=y # CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE is not set # CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY is not set # CONFIG_PREEMPT__LL is not set # CONFIG_PREEMPT_RTB is not set CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT_FULL=y CONFIG_PREEMPT_COUNT=y CONFIG_DEBUG_PREEMPT=y # CONFIG_PREEMPT_TRACER is not set $ cat /boot/config-3.12-1-rt-amd64 | grep _RT_ CONFIG_RT_MUTEXES=y CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT_BASE=y CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT_FULL=y # CONFIG_DEBUG_RT_MUTEXES is not set # CONFIG_RT_MUTEX_TESTER is not set # lsusb Bus 002 Device 003: ID 5986:0315 Acer, Inc Bus 002 Device 004: ID 0763:2012 Midiman M-Audio Fast Track Pro Bus 002 Device 002: ID 8087:0024 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub Bus 001 Device 002: ID 8087:0024 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub => I have a M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB card. # grep CONFIG_RT_GROUP_SCHED /boot/config-3.12-1-rt-amd64 # (empty, this string isn't in my kernel config file) I realize I didn't tick "realtime" in qjackctl, so I start it again but JACK log is the same: 15:12:46.782 JACK d?marre... 15:12:46.783 /usr/bin/jackd -v -dalsa -r44100 -p512 -n2 -D -Chw:Pro,0 -Phw:Pro,0 Cannot connect to server socket err = Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type Cannot connect to server request channel jack server is not running or cannot be started 15:12:46.797 JACK a ?t? d?marrer avec le PID=7290. Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted (1) Retrying messagebuffer thread without RT scheduling Messagebuffer not realtime; consider enabling RT scheduling for user no message buffer overruns Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted (1) Retrying messagebuffer thread without RT scheduling Messagebuffer not realtime; consider enabling RT scheduling for user no message buffer overruns Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted (1) Retrying messagebuffer thread without RT scheduling Messagebuffer not realtime; consider enabling RT scheduling for user no message buffer overruns jackdmp 1.9.10 ... There are very few references of this specific error message I found on the web, but none seem to be related with my case. # service rtirq status PID CLS RTPRIO NI PRI %CPU STAT COMMAND 45 FF 90 - 130 0.0 S irq/8-rtc0 556 FF 85 - 125 0.0 S irq/43-snd_hda_ 429 FF 80 - 120 0.0 S irq/16-ehci_hcd 430 FF 79 - 119 5.3 S irq/23-ehci_hcd 44 FF 75 - 115 0.0 S irq/1-i8042 43 FF 74 - 114 0.6 S irq/12-i8042 30 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/9-acpi 128 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/40-ahci 424 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/41-mei_me 431 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/16-mmc0 456 FF 50 - 90 0.6 S irq/18-rtl_pci 499 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/16-jmb38x_m 522 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/42-i915 2675 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/44-eth0 3 FF 1 - 41 0.0 S ksoftirqd/0 19 FF 1 - 41 0.0 S ksoftirqd/1 $ ./realTimeConfigQuickScan.pl == GUI-enabled checks == Checking if you are root... no - good Checking filesystem 'noatime' parameter... not found - warning /boot does not have the 'noatime' parameter set For more information, see http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration#filesystems Checking CPU Governors... CPU 0: 'powersave' CPU 1: 'powersave' - not good Set CPU Governors to 'performance' with 'cpufreq-set -c -g performance' See also: http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=844 Checking swappiness... 60 - not good ** vm.swappiness is larger than 10 set it with '/sbin/sysctl -w vm.swappiness=10' See also: http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=452&start=30#p8916 Checking for resource-intensive background processes... none found - good Checking checking sysctl inotify max_user_watches... < 524288 - not good increase max_user_watches by adding 'fs.inotify.max_user_watches = 524288' to /etc/sysctl.conf and rebooting For more information, see http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration#sysctlconf Checking access to the high precision event timer... readable - good Checking access to the real-time clock... readable - good Checking whether you're in the 'audio' group... yes - good Checking for multiple 'audio' groups... no - good chrt: failed to set pid 0's policy: Op?ration non permise Checking the ability to prioritize processes with chrt... no - not good Could not assign a 80 rtprio value. Set up limits.conf. For more information, see http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration#limitsconfaudioconf Checking kernel support for high resolution timers... found - good Kernel with Real-Time Preemption... found - good Checking if kernel system timer is set to 1000 hz... not found - not good Try setting CONFIG_HZ to 1000 Checking kernel support for tickless timer... not found - not good Try enabling tickless timer support (CONFIG_NO_HZ) == Other checks == Checking filesystem types... ok. not found. ** Warning: no tmpfs partition mounted on /tmp For more information, see: - http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration#tmpfs - http://lowlatency.linuxaudio.org ** Set $SOUND_CARD_IRQ to the IRQ of your soundcard to enable more checks. Find your sound card's IRQ by looking at '/proc/interrupts' and lspci. So, I'd like to know what prevents Jack from getting RT priorities. And that's about all. I'm stuck. Hope you guys see where is the problem more than I do and can point my to some direction. Regards, 01 From sakrecoer at gmail.com Fri Apr 4 16:26:47 2014 From: sakrecoer at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Set_Hallstr=C3=B6m?=) Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 18:26:47 +0200 Subject: [LAU] OT In-Reply-To: <533E9839.6010104@gmail.com> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <533CA880.6040906@gmail.com> <533E9839.6010104@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Roger wrote: > > It's the theme from TV show "Hawaii 5-0" . Steve and Danno were the top > cops. > > Right On!!!! Speaking in of cops, getting it back to the ontopic OT, _it_ reminds me of esperanto, and how certain human values are supposed to be universal language. I wish we could all make music with linux. Because my sisters and brothers would be free. But what really matters to me is the freesom of my sisters and brothers musicality. Have a delicious weekend, -- Set Hallstr?m AKA reSet Sakrecoer http://sakrecoer.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Fri Apr 4 18:51:05 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2014 08:51:05 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140404105057.GD30132@tal> References: <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404075833.GE26381@tal> <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404105057.GD30132@tal> Message-ID: <533EFF19.5060703@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/04/2014 12:50 AM, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Thu, Apr 03, 2014 at 10:15:29PM -1000, david wrote: >> On 04/03/2014 09:58 PM, Chris Bannister wrote: >>> On Wed, Apr 02, 2014 at 07:26:25PM -1000, david wrote: >>>> Who knows, maybe 300-400 years from know, today's rock operas will be high >>>> opera! Complete with the fat lady singing and scholarly musicologists >>>> writing dissertations on the use of pinball machines as musical >>>> instruments... >>> >>> Ummm, it has already been done! Tommy. :) >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Who's_Tommy >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfZQLXs72Lo >> >> Thanks, only that's a musical, not an opera. ;-) > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_(album) > '... Tommy was the first musical work to be billed overtly as a rock > opera.' > > *AND* he played pinball! Although, perhaps, not as an instrument. :) I think they used pinball machine sounds as part of things. Have any musicologists turned their scholarly eyes in the direction of "Tommy"? -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From nettings at stackingdwarves.net Fri Apr 4 22:07:53 2014 From: nettings at stackingdwarves.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rn_Nettingsmeier?=) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 00:07:53 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Album recording layout... In-Reply-To: References: <124BF637-A677-448C-B0FC-AA1D09502C88@gmail.com> Message-ID: <533F2D39.5020308@stackingdwarves.net> On 04/04/2014 07:19 AM, Set Hallstr?m wrote: > Hi, > > I use Ardour. One project per track. Once all these are arranged mixed > and exported to an "album master folder" (which in addition to the > project fodlers also contain everything usefull to the record, such as > album art and text material), i use another ardour project for the > mastering with JAMin. > > Hope this is helpfull to someone. same here, with one exception: my "mastering" session has one track per final track for the cd. makes it very easy to apply per-track eq and dynamics (if necessary), and global stuff (limiting or eq) goes into the master bus. all tracks are on their final places in the timeline, with no overlaps except if a crossfade is required. -- J?rn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister f?r Veranstaltungstechnik (B?hne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net From temps.jo at gmail.com Sat Apr 5 01:02:03 2014 From: temps.jo at gmail.com (pierre jocelyn andre) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 03:02:03 +0200 Subject: [LAU] lm3jo , DNA format In-Reply-To: References: <20140322222609.6dabfe23@Scrapyard.lan> <532E132A.4040100@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: Hi, I stopped the library 8 bytes And I gave a name to the library 14 bytes BAUL, BAUL is a audio library built on 14 bytes Each case 14 * 256 possible case creates a different acoustic form. I placed the BAUL in the latest version of LM3JO sources and project is presented in French here http://www.linuxmao.org/lm3jo Cordially 2014-03-23 0:31 GMT+01:00 pierre jocelyn andre : > thank you, for answers. > My project is to build an audio format for linux. > Audio format built on modeling > > The new version brings a better piano touch. > The new version brings a little more dna codes, and one of its modes of > operation ( library of 8 bytes ) > > > the project is presented in French here > http://www.linuxmao.org/lm3jo > > I placed on wikimedia some new sounds (200KB ogg) that are 3 bytes audio > format dna > > cordially > > > 2014-03-22 23:48 GMT+01:00 david : > > On 03/22/2014 12:26 PM, James Morris wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 22 Mar 2014 23:07:36 +0100 >>> pierre jocelyn andre wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I announced the release of version 1.1.1-9 lm3jo >>>> sources are here: >>>> >>>> http://www.letime.net/vocale/paquet_deb/sources.lm3jo_deb.tar.gz >>>> deb 386 is >>>> http://www.letime.net/vocale/paquet_deb/lm3jo.deb >>>> >>> >>> >>> Please take a look at other software release announcements for examples >>> of how to announce a software release properly. >>> >>> At a minimum you should provide the following information: >>> >>> * the basics of what the software does >>> * where to find more information about the software >>> * where to download it >>> >>> You might also supply information about what changes have been made in >>> the new release. >>> >>> In the instance creating a library of 8-byte audio built on DNA >>>> format. Or 256 x 256 x 256 x 256 x 256 x 256 x 256 x 256 possible >>>> melodies with 8 bytes >>>> >>> >>> Without knowing what the software does, that entire statement is >>> pretty meaningless. >>> >>> regards, >>> James. >>> >> >> I took it to mean he was distributing a library of 8-byte audio in DNA >> format. Not necessarily software. >> >> -- >> David W. Jones >> gnome at hawaii.rr.com >> authenticity, honesty, community >> http://dancingtreefrog.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux-audio-user mailing list >> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org >> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harryhaaren at gmail.com Sat Apr 5 09:01:43 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 11:01:43 +0200 Subject: [LAU] List of good linux plugins (was Bitwig: what we can learn from it) In-Reply-To: <533E89EC.3070806@gmail.com> References: <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> <533E89EC.3070806@gmail.com> Message-ID: On 04/04/2014 11:59 AM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > Yet all this stuff gets distributed, listed on helpful websites > (look ! hundreds of plugins !), and nobody feels the need to > weed out the crap. Wonder why some people don't take Linux > Audio seriously ? > This is actually the reason I started writing the OpenAV ArtyFX [1] suite of plugins: a consistency and a quality that when you load a plugin you know how it will work, both in signal processing and in the user-interface to control it. There are some important daily plugins missing (a compressor and limiter come to mind), but fear not, they're in development at the moment. If you (the linux-audio-user) desire any specific plugin that doesn't yet exist (for linux audio), email me and we can discuss it's creation. Cheers, -Harry [1] http://openavproductions.com/artyfx -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From unaudio at gmail.com Sat Apr 5 09:32:12 2014 From: unaudio at gmail.com (Vytautas Jancauskas) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 12:32:12 +0300 Subject: [LAU] A spectral delay VST plug-in for Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I added 32 bit Linux version and Windows versions of the plug-in. It also should run about 3 times faster now. On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 1:24 AM, Vytautas Jancauskas wrote: > Here is a link to a public beta of my new VST plug-in, a spectral delay > effect - http://lanternfishaudio.wordpress.com/downloads/. It is only > available on Linux for the time being and the GUI will stop loading in > 2014.07.01 but audio processing part will still work. After that time > either the beta period will be extended, the plug-in released commercially > or if there is not enough interest as open source. There is a manual > explaining how to use or install it. It is still in fairly early stages of > developments but should be usable for most users with decent hosts. > > It will work on Renoise and Ardour 3 and does not work on Qtractor 0.5.11 > which reports it's sampling rate as 0 which, while a perfectly respectable > number, is not a valid sampling rate IMO. > -- "Cheshire-Puss," she began, "would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?" "That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat. "I don't care much where--" said Alice. "Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Sat Apr 5 09:44:17 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea.grammostola) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 11:44:17 +0200 Subject: [LAU] How far is Ardour3 with MIDI? (Bitwig: what we can learn from it) In-Reply-To: <533EFF19.5060703@hawaii.rr.com> References: <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404075833.GE26381@tal> <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404105057.GD30132@tal> <533EFF19.5060703@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <533FD071.6000404@gmail.com> Hi, Wondering how far is A3 with MIDI. When I read the Internet it seems to have quirks/bugs/crashes. As a musician you like to work with a tool in which you can (easily) finish a musical project. How is the situation now and what are the goals in near future? Regards, \r From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Sat Apr 5 09:50:04 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea.grammostola) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 11:50:04 +0200 Subject: [LAU] How far is Ardour3 with MIDI? (Bitwig: what we can learn from it) In-Reply-To: <533FD071.6000404@gmail.com> References: <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404075833.GE26381@tal> <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404105057.GD30132@tal> <533EFF19.5060703@hawaii.rr.com> <533FD071.6000404@gmail.com> Message-ID: <533FD1CC.1060705@gmail.com> On 04/05/2014 11:44 AM, rosea.grammostola wrote: > Hi, > > Wondering how far is A3 with MIDI. When I read the Internet it seems > to have quirks/bugs/crashes. As a musician you like to work with a > tool in which you can (easily) finish a musical project. > How is the situation now and what are the goals in near future? > > Regards, > \r Sorry, but took me 3 minuts to crash (ardour-3.5.357~dfsg-1:5009): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: Attempt to add property gtkmm__CustomObject_GnomeCanvasLineSet::y2 after class was initialised Segmentation fault From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Sat Apr 5 09:58:57 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea.grammostola) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 11:58:57 +0200 Subject: [LAU] How far is Ardour3 with MIDI? (Bitwig: what we can learn from it) In-Reply-To: <533FD1CC.1060705@gmail.com> References: <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404075833.GE26381@tal> <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404105057.GD30132@tal> <533EFF19.5060703@hawaii.rr.com> <533FD071.6000404@gmail.com> <533FD1CC.1060705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <533FD3E1.9060804@gmail.com> On 04/05/2014 11:50 AM, rosea.grammostola wrote: > Sorry, but took me 3 minuts to crash > > (ardour-3.5.357~dfsg-1:5009): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: Attempt to add > property gtkmm__CustomObject_GnomeCanvasLineSet::y2 after class was > initialised > Segmentation fault On a positive note, I like the MIDI editing track and the fact that is has JACK MIDI and logical JACK routing possibilities per track (in contrary to Qtractor). \r From robin at gareus.org Sat Apr 5 10:08:13 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 12:08:13 +0200 Subject: [LAU] How far is Ardour3 with MIDI? (Bitwig: what we can learn from it) In-Reply-To: <533FD3E1.9060804@gmail.com> References: <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404075833.GE26381@tal> <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404105057.GD30132@tal> <533EFF19.5060703@hawaii.rr.com> <533FD071.6000404@gmail.com> <533FD1CC.1060705@gmail.com> <533FD3E1.9060804@gmail.com> Message-ID: <533FD60D.2090802@gareus.org> On 04/05/2014 11:58 AM, rosea.grammostola wrote: > On 04/05/2014 11:50 AM, rosea.grammostola wrote: >> Sorry, but took me 3 minuts to crash >> >> (ardour-3.5.357~dfsg-1:5009): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: Attempt to add >> property gtkmm__CustomObject_GnomeCanvasLineSet::y2 after class was >> initialised That's a bug in gtkmm, unrelated to the crash. There's already a bug already filed on it, but it doesn't cause a problem and hence it did not attract anyone's attention. >> Segmentation fault http://ardour.org/debugging_ardour The current state of MIDI Tracks in Ardour3 still leaves lots to be desired. Midi will return to the center of attention after 3.6 is released. > On a positive note, I like the MIDI editing track and the fact that is > has JACK MIDI and logical JACK routing possibilities per track (in > contrary to Qtractor). > > > \r > From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Sat Apr 5 10:14:21 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea.grammostola) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 12:14:21 +0200 Subject: [LAU] How far is Ardour3 with MIDI? (Bitwig: what we can learn from it) In-Reply-To: <533FD60D.2090802@gareus.org> References: <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404075833.GE26381@tal> <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404105057.GD30132@tal> <533EFF19.5060703@hawaii.rr.com> <533FD071.6000404@gmail.com> <533FD1CC.1060705@gmail.com> <533FD3E1.9060804@gmail.com> <533FD60D.2090802@gareus.org> Message-ID: <533FD77D.50700@gmail.com> On 04/05/2014 12:08 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: > The current state of MIDI Tracks in Ardour3 still leaves lots to be > desired. Midi will return to the center of attention after 3.6 is released. Any idea when 3.6 will be released? From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Sat Apr 5 10:56:40 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 13:56:40 +0300 Subject: [LAU] How far is Ardour3 with MIDI? (Bitwig: what we can learn from it) In-Reply-To: <533FD77D.50700@gmail.com> References: <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404075833.GE26381@tal> <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404105057.GD30132@tal> <533EFF19.5060703@hawaii.rr.com> <533FD071.6000404@gmail.com> <533FD1CC.1060705@gmail.com> <533FD3E1.9060804@gmail.com> <533FD60D.2090802@gareus.org> <533FD77D.50700@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 1:14 PM, rosea.grammostola < rosea.grammostola at gmail.com> wrote: > On 04/05/2014 12:08 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: > >> The current state of MIDI Tracks in Ardour3 still leaves lots to be >> desired. Midi will return to the center of attention after 3.6 is >> released. >> > Any idea when 3.6 will be released? No. Still working on the main new stuff there, fixing bugs. Also away in Kyiv at present working on an ardour-related commercial project. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Sat Apr 5 11:03:28 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea.grammostola) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 13:03:28 +0200 Subject: [LAU] How far is Ardour3 with MIDI? (Bitwig: what we can learn from it) In-Reply-To: References: <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404075833.GE26381@tal> <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404105057.GD30132@tal> <533EFF19.5060703@hawaii.rr.com> <533FD071.6000404@gmail.com> <533FD1CC.1060705@gmail.com> <533FD3E1.9060804@gmail.com> <533FD60D.2090802@gareus.org> <533FD77D.50700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <533FE300.5060803@gmail.com> On 04/05/2014 12:56 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > > > > On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 1:14 PM, rosea.grammostola > > wrote: > > On 04/05/2014 12:08 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: > > The current state of MIDI Tracks in Ardour3 still leaves lots > to be > desired. Midi will return to the center of attention after 3.6 > is released. > > Any idea when 3.6 will be released? > > > No. Still working on the main new stuff there, fixing bugs. Also away > in Kyiv at present working on an ardour-related commercial project. > Hm Interesting times to be in Kyiv... You've to find a commercial partner who is interested in MIDI mainly... :) Good MIDI sequencers are very rare on Linux. \r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pshirkey at boosthardware.com Sat Apr 5 12:50:04 2014 From: pshirkey at boosthardware.com (Patrick Shirkey) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 23:50:04 +1100 (EST) Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> References: <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <53048.86.107.254.57.1396702204.squirrel@boosthardware.com> On Fri, April 4, 2014 8:59 pm, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 10:58:17AM +0200, Tim Blechmann wrote: > >> > Where anyone can publish anything of course the user needs to do a >> fair >> > bit of work filtering the worthwhile from the useless. >> >> replace 'useless' by 'broken' ... if you use have an unstable filter in >> your fx chain, you could either destroy your speakers or even worse: >> your ears. > > or someone else's speakers or ears. > > And having to do 'a fair bit of work' separating the crap from the > usable isn't going to improve a potential user's workflow either, > nor his first impression of what Linux Audio has to offer. > It's the same on every platform. Look at the Android play store for example. Android being the most popular OS on the planet. > It's not just filters oscillating. I've seen delay lines blow > up, compressors going to infinite gain, and all sorts of things > producing loud bangs when connected, activated or coonfigured. > And those are just the potentially destructive 'features', we > are not even discussing basic processing quality. > > Yet all this stuff gets distributed, listed on helpful websites > (look ! hundreds of plugins !), and nobody feels the need to > weed out the crap. Wonder why some people don't take Linux > Audio seriously ? > That's a strange argument to make. As far as I know there is no one paying anyone to curate the penultimate collection of perfectly working open source plugins. However there are several people who go to very great lengths to weed out the crap and produce very high quality Multimedia Distros or collections as a result, yourself included. Seems like you are putting your own hard work down or at least making it appear as though you think your work is irrelevant to the discussion. You also dissed several other audio plugin developers in the process. We all know where you were going with the comment but you have cast the net pretty damn wide with this one. Almost like you are asking for punishment. -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd From idragosani at gmail.com Sat Apr 5 12:53:07 2014 From: idragosani at gmail.com (Brett McCoy) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 08:53:07 -0400 Subject: [LAU] How far is Ardour3 with MIDI? (Bitwig: what we can learn from it) In-Reply-To: <533FD071.6000404@gmail.com> References: <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404075833.GE26381@tal> <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404105057.GD30132@tal> <533EFF19.5060703@hawaii.rr.com> <533FD071.6000404@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 5:44 AM, rosea.grammostola < rosea.grammostola at gmail.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Wondering how far is A3 with MIDI. When I read the Internet it seems to > have quirks/bugs/crashes. As a musician you like to work with a tool in > which you can (easily) finish a musical project. > How is the situation now and what are the goals in near future? > I use Ardour3 MIDI all of the time. It's not perfect yet but, coupled with the video timeline, is excellent for film scoring. I even abandoned Rosegarden in favor of using Ardour3 for MIDI, especially because Rosegarden's CC automation is very buggy and next to useless. -- Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world." -- Jelaleddin Rumi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From f111110101011 at gmail.com Sat Apr 5 14:08:29 2014 From: f111110101011 at gmail.com (0 1) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 16:08:29 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Jack+Debian RT] Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted In-Reply-To: <533EB461.7020904@gmail.com> References: <533EB461.7020904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <53400E5D.10804@gmail.com> I solved my main problems, it was related to my X Session Manager (slim). The problem was running, from an X Terminal: chrt 70 echo foo ... gave some "failed to set pid 0's policy: Op?ration non permise" error. The same command ran from a VT console (CTRL+ALT+F1) didn't show this error message. I hence installed lightdm instead of slim and it solved the issue. Other optimizations were made with: /etc/sysctl.d/realtime.conf dev.hpet.max-user-freq = 3072 fs.inotify.max_user_watches = 524288 kernel.hung_task_timeout_secs = 0 kernel.shmmax = 0x7fffffff vm.swappiness = 10 And: /etc/udev/rules.d/10-realtime.rules KERNEL=="hpet", MODE="0660", GROUP="audio" KERNEL=="rtc0", MODE="0660", GROUP="audio" Now the result of the perl script looks much nicer: ./realTimeConfigQuickScan.pl == GUI-enabled checks == Checking if you are root... no - good Checking filesystem 'noatime' parameter... not found - warning /boot does not have the 'noatime' parameter set For more information, see http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration#filesystems Checking CPU Governors... CPU 0: 'performance' CPU 1: 'performance' - good Checking swappiness... 10 - good Checking for resource-intensive background processes... none found - good Checking checking sysctl inotify max_user_watches... >= 524288 - good Checking access to the high precision event timer... readable - good Checking access to the real-time clock... readable - good Checking whether you're in the 'audio' group... yes - good Checking for multiple 'audio' groups... no - good Checking the ability to prioritize processes with chrt... yes - good Checking kernel support for high resolution timers... found - good Kernel with Real-Time Preemption... found - good Checking if kernel system timer is set to 1000 hz... not found - not good Try setting CONFIG_HZ to 1000 Checking kernel support for tickless timer... not found - not good Try enabling tickless timer support (CONFIG_NO_HZ) == Other checks == Checking filesystem types... ok. not found. ** Warning: no tmpfs partition mounted on /tmp For more information, see: - http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration#tmpfs - http://lowlatency.linuxaudio.org ** Set $SOUND_CARD_IRQ to the IRQ of your soundcard to enable more checks. Find your sound card's IRQ by looking at '/proc/interrupts' and lspci. I'm still experiencing Xruns however, and may have to dig further. Regards, 01 Le 04/04/2014 15:32, 0 1 a ?crit : > Hello, > > I've been using a realtime kernel some time ago. I hadn't a very > intensive use of it so I didn't even notice if its configuration was > very right or wrong, it seemed fine, but I ended up uninstalling it > and doing fine without. > > As of now I'm running Debian Jessie, and lately I've been trying the > latest kernel Debian from their repos (currently, from wheezy-backports). > > However, JACK can't seem to get to work with realtime. Here is part of > the log: > > > > 14:11:39.082 JACK d?marre... > 14:11:39.083 /usr/bin/jackd -r -dalsa -r44100 -p512 -n2 -D -Chw:Pro,0 > -Phw:Pro,0 > Cannot connect to server socket err = Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type > Cannot connect to server request channel > jack server is not running or cannot be started > 14:11:39.110 JACK a ?t? d?marrer avec le PID=3903. > Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted (1) > Retrying messagebuffer thread without RT scheduling > Messagebuffer not realtime; consider enabling RT scheduling for user > no message buffer overruns > Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted (1) > Retrying messagebuffer thread without RT scheduling > Messagebuffer not realtime; consider enabling RT scheduling for user > no message buffer overruns > Gtk-Message: (for origin information, set GTK_DEBUG): failed to > retrieve property `GtkRange::activate-slider' of type `gboolean' from > rc file value "((GString*) 0x1cb8c40)" of type `GString' > Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted (1) > Retrying messagebuffer thread without RT scheduling > Messagebuffer not realtime; consider enabling RT scheduling for user > no message buffer overruns > jackdmp 1.9.10 > > > > > Here is the content of /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf > > # Provided by the jackd package. > # > # Changes to this file will be preserved. > # > # If you want to enable/disable realtime permissions, run > # > # dpkg-reconfigure -p high jackd > > @audio - rtprio 95 > @audio - memlock unlimited > #@audio - nice -19 > > Note: the dpkg-reconfigure is "wrong" since in my case I use "jackd2". > > > > Content of /etc/default/rtirq: > (...) > # IRQ thread service names > # (space separated list, from higher to lower priority). > RTIRQ_NAME_LIST="rtc snd usb i8042" > > # Highest priority. > RTIRQ_PRIO_HIGH=90 > > # Priority decrease step. > RTIRQ_PRIO_DECR=5 > > # Lowest priority. > RTIRQ_PRIO_LOW=51 > > # Whether to reset all IRQ threads to SCHED_OTHER. > RTIRQ_RESET_ALL=0 > > # On kernel configurations that support it, > # which services should be NOT threaded > # (space separated list). > RTIRQ_NON_THREADED="rtc snd" > > # Process names which will be forced to the > # highest realtime priority range (99-91) > # (space separated list, from highest to lower priority). > # RTIRQ_HIGH_LIST="timer" > > > > Results of a few commands, > > $ uname -a > Linux cacacomp 3.12-1-rt-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 3.12.9-1+rt1 > (2014-02-20) x86_64 GNU/Linux > > > $ cat /boot/config-3.12-1-rt-amd64 | grep PREEMPT > CONFIG_TREE_PREEMPT_RCU=y > CONFIG_PREEMPT_RCU=y > CONFIG_PREEMPT_NOTIFIERS=y > CONFIG_PREEMPT=y > CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT_BASE=y > CONFIG_HAVE_PREEMPT_LAZY=y > CONFIG_PREEMPT_LAZY=y > # CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE is not set > # CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY is not set > # CONFIG_PREEMPT__LL is not set > # CONFIG_PREEMPT_RTB is not set > CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT_FULL=y > CONFIG_PREEMPT_COUNT=y > CONFIG_DEBUG_PREEMPT=y > # CONFIG_PREEMPT_TRACER is not set > > > > $ cat /boot/config-3.12-1-rt-amd64 | grep _RT_ > CONFIG_RT_MUTEXES=y > CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT_BASE=y > CONFIG_PREEMPT_RT_FULL=y > # CONFIG_DEBUG_RT_MUTEXES is not set > # CONFIG_RT_MUTEX_TESTER is not set > > > > # lsusb > Bus 002 Device 003: ID 5986:0315 Acer, Inc > Bus 002 Device 004: ID 0763:2012 Midiman M-Audio Fast Track Pro > Bus 002 Device 002: ID 8087:0024 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub > Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub > Bus 001 Device 002: ID 8087:0024 Intel Corp. Integrated Rate Matching Hub > Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub > > => I have a M-Audio Fast Track Pro USB card. > > > > # grep CONFIG_RT_GROUP_SCHED /boot/config-3.12-1-rt-amd64 > # > (empty, this string isn't in my kernel config file) > > > > I realize I didn't tick "realtime" in qjackctl, so I start it again > but JACK log is the same: > > 15:12:46.782 JACK d?marre... > 15:12:46.783 /usr/bin/jackd -v -dalsa -r44100 -p512 -n2 -D -Chw:Pro,0 > -Phw:Pro,0 > Cannot connect to server socket err = Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type > Cannot connect to server request channel > jack server is not running or cannot be started > 15:12:46.797 JACK a ?t? d?marrer avec le PID=7290. > Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted (1) > Retrying messagebuffer thread without RT scheduling > Messagebuffer not realtime; consider enabling RT scheduling for user > no message buffer overruns > Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted (1) > Retrying messagebuffer thread without RT scheduling > Messagebuffer not realtime; consider enabling RT scheduling for user > no message buffer overruns > Cannot create RT messagebuffer thread: Operation not permitted (1) > Retrying messagebuffer thread without RT scheduling > Messagebuffer not realtime; consider enabling RT scheduling for user > no message buffer overruns > jackdmp 1.9.10 > ... > > There are very few references of this specific error message I found > on the web, but none seem to be related with my case. > > > > # service rtirq status > > PID CLS RTPRIO NI PRI %CPU STAT COMMAND > 45 FF 90 - 130 0.0 S irq/8-rtc0 > 556 FF 85 - 125 0.0 S irq/43-snd_hda_ > 429 FF 80 - 120 0.0 S irq/16-ehci_hcd > 430 FF 79 - 119 5.3 S irq/23-ehci_hcd > 44 FF 75 - 115 0.0 S irq/1-i8042 > 43 FF 74 - 114 0.6 S irq/12-i8042 > 30 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/9-acpi > 128 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/40-ahci > 424 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/41-mei_me > 431 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/16-mmc0 > 456 FF 50 - 90 0.6 S irq/18-rtl_pci > 499 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/16-jmb38x_m > 522 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/42-i915 > 2675 FF 50 - 90 0.0 S irq/44-eth0 > 3 FF 1 - 41 0.0 S ksoftirqd/0 > 19 FF 1 - 41 0.0 S ksoftirqd/1 > > $ ./realTimeConfigQuickScan.pl > == GUI-enabled checks == > Checking if you are root... no - good > Checking filesystem 'noatime' parameter... not found - warning > /boot does not have the 'noatime' parameter set > For more information, see > http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration#filesystems > Checking CPU Governors... CPU 0: 'powersave' CPU 1: 'powersave' - not > good > Set CPU Governors to 'performance' with 'cpufreq-set -c -g > performance' > See also: http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=844 > Checking swappiness... 60 - not good > ** vm.swappiness is larger than 10 > set it with '/sbin/sysctl -w vm.swappiness=10' > See also: > http://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=452&start=30#p8916 > Checking for resource-intensive background processes... none found - good > Checking checking sysctl inotify max_user_watches... < 524288 - not good > increase max_user_watches by adding 'fs.inotify.max_user_watches = > 524288' to /etc/sysctl.conf and rebooting > For more information, see > http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration#sysctlconf > Checking access to the high precision event timer... readable - good > Checking access to the real-time clock... readable - good > Checking whether you're in the 'audio' group... yes - good > Checking for multiple 'audio' groups... no - good > chrt: failed to set pid 0's policy: Op?ration non permise > Checking the ability to prioritize processes with chrt... no - not good > Could not assign a 80 rtprio value. Set up limits.conf. > For more information, see > http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration#limitsconfaudioconf > Checking kernel support for high resolution timers... found - good > Kernel with Real-Time Preemption... found - good > Checking if kernel system timer is set to 1000 hz... not found - not good > Try setting CONFIG_HZ to 1000 > > Checking kernel support for tickless timer... not found - not good > Try enabling tickless timer support (CONFIG_NO_HZ) > > == Other checks == > Checking filesystem types... ok. > not found. > ** Warning: no tmpfs partition mounted on /tmp > For more information, see: > - http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration#tmpfs > - http://lowlatency.linuxaudio.org > ** Set $SOUND_CARD_IRQ to the IRQ of your soundcard to enable more > checks. > Find your sound card's IRQ by looking at '/proc/interrupts' and lspci. > > > > > > So, I'd like to know what prevents Jack from getting RT priorities. > And that's about all. I'm stuck. Hope you guys see where is the > problem more than I do and can point my to some direction. > > Regards, > > 01 From fons at linuxaudio.org Sat Apr 5 14:18:36 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 14:18:36 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <53048.86.107.254.57.1396702204.squirrel@boosthardware.com> References: <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> <53048.86.107.254.57.1396702204.squirrel@boosthardware.com> Message-ID: <20140405141836.GA11400@linuxaudio.org> On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 11:50:04PM +1100, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > On Fri, April 4, 2014 8:59 pm, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > It's not just filters oscillating. I've seen delay lines blow > > up, compressors going to infinite gain, and all sorts of things > > producing loud bangs when connected, activated or coonfigured. > > And those are just the potentially destructive 'features', we > > are not even discussing basic processing quality. > > > > Yet all this stuff gets distributed, listed on helpful websites > > (look ! hundreds of plugins !), and nobody feels the need to > > weed out the crap. Wonder why some people don't take Linux > > Audio seriously ? > > > > That's a strange argument to make. As far as I know there is no one paying > anyone to curate the penultimate collection of perfectly working open > source plugins. The sites and collections do exist even if no-one is paying for them. If their curators don't care about the quality of the stuff they list that is their choice. > You also dissed several other audio plugin developers in the process. We > all know where you were going with the comment but you have cast the net > pretty damn wide with this one. Almost like you are asking for punishment. I didn't mention any names. The only time when I have done so is on the dpl1 and at1 pages of my website. I could add a few if I wanted. E.g. a four band parametric EQ of which only the first section works, that can produce a peak of +30 dB when you set if for a -10 dB shelf, and that has some other problems as well. I wonder if the author ever tested it. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sat Apr 5 17:30:17 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 19:30:17 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140331103302.GA2641@gjcp.net> <20140331112645.GA26586@linuxaudio.org> <201403311509.50956.gerhard.zintel@web.de> <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <1396719017.591.14.camel@archlinux> On Wed, 2014-04-02 at 19:26 -1000, david wrote: > Who knows, maybe 300-400 years from know, today's rock operas will be > high opera! Complete with the fat lady singing and scholarly > musicologists writing dissertations on the use of pinball machines as > musical instruments... I dislike Pinball Wizard, but like Pete Townshend and to be honest, e.g. The War of the Worlds has some nice songs, but IMO it isn't good as a complete classical opus. Rock musicians shouldn't try to make "concept album" or "operas". The oldish, classical operas tend to be crap and and all "modern rock" operas usually are crap?. Musicians (especially Rock and Jazz folks) usually don's stick on banal things long enough to make an opus out of it, this is a task for the people how are boring and stiff as a poker. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sat Apr 5 17:35:42 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 19:35:42 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5336A119.3080502@gmail.com> <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <1396719342.591.18.camel@archlinux> On Thu, 2014-04-03 at 17:56 +0200, Tim Blechmann wrote: > >>> Rui, Harry and many other developers care a lot about user feedback > >>> too :). That's the good thing when using Linux audio. The chance to talk > >>> to the developers of proprietary software is virtually zero. > >> > >> in this regard, you may want to distinguish between a company of 50000 > >> people like yamaha (steinberg), 3000 people like avid (protools) and > >> companies like bitwig or cockos (each having about 3 developers). > > > > Ok, true and while some companies don't care about the averaged > > customer, they care if you call them when working for another company. > > When I worked for Brauner I could call some companies and they listened > > to me, but they won't listen to me, when I call them privately. That's > > not bad at all, since if you call company B while working for company A > > the averaged user will benefit too. But if you talk to companies there > > always is a communication chain, while for Linux audio we usually can > > directly get in contact with the developers, that's a nice advantage. > > well, it is nice being able to talk to a dev, but it does not > necessarily help: e.g. i once contacted a developer of some ladspa > plugins that the filters get unstable, getting the wonderful answer > like: i just implemented some textbook formular, i don't know what this > kind of filter is and have no understanding about DSP ... of course he > did not care about fixing bugs or making sure that fixes will make it > into distributions ... Hobby vs professional, the problem with Linux is, that one way is to install all available plugs and another way is to install plugs you know, that will be ok for your needs. IOW meta-packages could cause serious issues ;). From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sat Apr 5 17:39:56 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 19:39:56 +0200 Subject: [LAU] OT In-Reply-To: <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> Message-ID: <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> On Fri, 2014-04-04 at 19:26 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: > Remember that "Crowded House" is a New Zealand Band! :) They made some good music, but you can't listen to a complete album of them, there's the need to skip several songs :p. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sat Apr 5 17:43:30 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 19:43:30 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> References: <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1396719810.591.24.camel@archlinux> On Fri, 2014-04-04 at 09:59 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Fri, Apr 04, 2014 at 10:58:17AM +0200, Tim Blechmann wrote: > > > > Where anyone can publish anything of course the user needs to do a fair > > > bit of work filtering the worthwhile from the useless. > > > > replace 'useless' by 'broken' ... if you use have an unstable filter in > > your fx chain, you could either destroy your speakers or even worse: > > your ears. > > or someone else's speakers or ears. > > And having to do 'a fair bit of work' separating the crap from the > usable isn't going to improve a potential user's workflow either, > nor his first impression of what Linux Audio has to offer. > > It's not just filters oscillating. I've seen delay lines blow > up, compressors going to infinite gain, and all sorts of things > producing loud bangs when connected, activated or coonfigured. > And those are just the potentially destructive 'features', we > are not even discussing basic processing quality. > > Yet all this stuff gets distributed, listed on helpful websites > (look ! hundreds of plugins !), and nobody feels the need to > weed out the crap. Wonder why some people don't take Linux > Audio seriously ? As already replied earlier, meta-packages, resp. packages that include several effects are a PITA for this kind of software. Each effect should get it's own package. From len at ovenwerks.net Sat Apr 5 18:07:50 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 11:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396719810.591.24.camel@archlinux> References: <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> <1396719810.591.24.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Apr 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > As already replied earlier, meta-packages, resp. packages that include > several effects are a PITA for this kind of software. Each effect should > get it's own package. A developer who is doing packaging is not coding/maintaining. Ardour has delt with this by incluing a lot of extra stuff in their package and making it install "anywhere". Two packages does Linux (32 and 64). I expect it was still a lot of work just to do packaging... my very limited experience with packaging has been that it has taken pretty much as much of my time energy and resources to package as to do what was in the package... and it was only one kind of package for one version of distro. There are some people who just package other people's SW. To make the most of their time it is not unusual to make one package with more than one sub-package in it. There are not enough people who enjoy or are willing to do packaging to change this reality. Personally, I am getting to the point where I want to spend my time on what is important to me, making music. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sat Apr 5 18:29:16 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 20:29:16 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> <1396719810.591.24.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <1396722556.591.30.camel@archlinux> On Sat, 2014-04-05 at 11:07 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > On Sat, 5 Apr 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > As already replied earlier, meta-packages, resp. packages that include > > several effects are a PITA for this kind of software. Each effect should > > get it's own package. > > A developer who is doing packaging is not coding/maintaining. Ardour has > delt with this by incluing a lot of extra stuff in their package and > making it install "anywhere". Two packages does Linux (32 and 64). I > expect it was still a lot of work just to do packaging... my very limited > experience with packaging has been that it has taken pretty much as much > of my time energy and resources to package as to do what was in the > package... and it was only one kind of package for one version of distro. > There are some people who just package other people's SW. To make the most > of their time it is not unusual to make one package with more than one > sub-package in it. There are not enough people who enjoy or are willing to > do packaging to change this reality. > > Personally, I am getting to the point where I want to spend my time on > what is important to me, making music. I several times "planed" to become an *buntu/Debian and Arch audio packager, but I'm now certain to never ever become the maintainer of any official package for any distro, since there are too many barriers for my taste. From len at ovenwerks.net Sat Apr 5 18:39:27 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 2014 11:39:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396722556.591.30.camel@archlinux> References: <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> <1396719810.591.24.camel@archlinux> <1396722556.591.30.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Apr 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I several times "planed" to become an *buntu/Debian and Arch audio > packager, but I'm now certain to never ever become the maintainer of any > official package for any distro, since there are too many barriers for > my taste. In general for any one distro, packaging means having three or more versions of that distro running on your machine. In ubuntu terms, last LTS, last release, and next release. Yes there are tools to automate this, but bugs do happen (packaging bugs where libs don't align, etc. not original SW bugs) Yes it is a lot of work. I don't blame you. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Sat Apr 5 18:49:52 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea.grammostola) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 20:49:52 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: References: <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> <533E153D.9020509@gmail.com> <20140404095921.GC28135@linuxaudio.org> <1396719810.591.24.camel@archlinux> <1396722556.591.30.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <53405050.9060104@gmail.com> Hm you can make a simple beat with non-sequencer and Carla (in NSM) too :) http://ubuntuone.com/67nrp9TZsbsV9sQ89FodRi For more complex stuff you could load the midi files in bitwig It doesn't seems to be hard to get something interesting. It's harder to create something in your head and put that in the midi-sequencer From philcm at gnu.org Sat Apr 5 21:49:13 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Philippe Coatmeur) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 22:49:13 +0100 Subject: [LAU] In search of a Linux Drum synth plugin Message-ID: <53407A59.3060403@gnu.org> Hello everybody I mainly read the ML and apologize in advance for the annoyance of such a dumb question, but I have been in search of a good synthesis-only percussive sound generation solution for so long I cannot remember. When I play with the latest sunvox, that I use on mobile platforms (Meego / Harmattan and Maemo) and hear the wonders that Alex made with the kicker and DrumSynth module, I really wonder how come are there no such thing as a solid (Native, ideally LV2, but realistically DSSI) drumsynth plugin? Or maybe I'm missing something? I would really like to. Phil -- Philippe Coatmeur * http://opensimo.org/play * http://opensimo.org/adamweb/ * https://github.com/xaccrocheur From atte at youmail.dk Sun Apr 6 07:19:17 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 09:19:17 +0200 Subject: [LAU] In search of a Linux Drum synth plugin In-Reply-To: <53407A59.3060403@gnu.org> References: <53407A59.3060403@gnu.org> Message-ID: <5340FFF5.7060701@youmail.dk> On 04/05/2014 11:49 PM, Philippe Coatmeur wrote: > I mainly read the ML and apologize in advance for the annoyance of such > a dumb question, but I have been in search of a good synthesis-only > percussive sound generation solution for so long I cannot remember. http://smack.berlios.de/ Not sure how alive that is, though... -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From self at thorstenwilms.com Sun Apr 6 08:03:13 2014 From: self at thorstenwilms.com (Thorsten Wilms) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 10:03:13 +0200 Subject: [LAU] In search of a Linux Drum synth plugin In-Reply-To: <5340FFF5.7060701@youmail.dk> References: <53407A59.3060403@gnu.org> <5340FFF5.7060701@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <53410A41.80706@thorstenwilms.com> On 04/06/2014 09:19 AM, Atte wrote: > http://smack.berlios.de/ > > Not sure how alive that is, though... Dead. I think we had that topic before, but I can't find the thread anymore. The author of Smack, Loki, has stopped doing anything Linux-Audio related years ago. BerliOS closed down in 2011. Smack uses Om, so deprecated there gotta be a hipster among hipsters using it. The successor Ingen uses a very different file format, so you can't load Om patches there. I think Ingen's author still would like to convert the Om patches, but that has low priority, so nobody should wait for it. -- Thorsten Wilms thorwil's design for free software: http://thorwil.wordpress.com/ From jeremy at autostatic.com Sun Apr 6 08:52:05 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 10:52:05 +0200 Subject: [LAU] In search of a Linux Drum synth plugin In-Reply-To: <53407A59.3060403@gnu.org> References: <53407A59.3060403@gnu.org> Message-ID: <534115B5.3090701@autostatic.com> On 04/05/2014 11:49 PM, Philippe Coatmeur wrote: > Hello everybody > > I mainly read the ML and apologize in advance for the annoyance of such > a dumb question, but I have been in search of a good synthesis-only > percussive sound generation solution for so long I cannot remember. > > When I play with the latest sunvox, that I use on mobile platforms > (Meego / Harmattan and Maemo) and hear the wonders that Alex made with > the kicker and DrumSynth module, I really wonder how come are there no > such thing as a solid (Native, ideally LV2, but realistically DSSI) > drumsynth plugin? Or maybe I'm missing something? > I would really like to. > > Phil > Hello Phil, Check Distrho, it contains the DrumSynth plugin ported to LinuxVST and LV2: http://distrho.sourceforge.net/ports.php DrumSynth is part of the Juced Plugins: http://www.anticore.org/jucetice/?page_id=7 Another option is to use LMMS which can load .ds files too and has a Kicker synth. Bye, Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From cbannister at slingshot.co.nz Sun Apr 6 09:33:49 2014 From: cbannister at slingshot.co.nz (Chris Bannister) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 21:33:49 +1200 Subject: [LAU] Bitwig: what we can learn from it In-Reply-To: <1396719342.591.18.camel@archlinux> References: <20140329162926.GE4434@linuxaudio.org> <5337386B.5070902@gmail.com> <533786DA.4020208@gmail.com> <53380C3E.5040808@alextone.info> <1396182567.995.9.camel@archlinux> <1396184009.995.21.camel@archlinux> <1396719342.591.18.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <20140406093349.GE11691@tal> On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 07:35:42PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > well, it is nice being able to talk to a dev, but it does not > > necessarily help: e.g. i once contacted a developer of some ladspa > > plugins that the filters get unstable, getting the wonderful answer > > like: i just implemented some textbook formular, i don't know what this > > kind of filter is and have no understanding about DSP ... of course he > > did not care about fixing bugs or making sure that fixes will make it > > into distributions ... > > Hobby vs professional, the problem with Linux is, that one way is to You can't blame linux if somebody doesn't have a clue. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X From cbannister at slingshot.co.nz Sun Apr 6 09:57:39 2014 From: cbannister at slingshot.co.nz (Chris Bannister) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 21:57:39 +1200 Subject: [LAU] OT In-Reply-To: <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 07:39:56PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Fri, 2014-04-04 at 19:26 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: > > Remember that "Crowded House" is a New Zealand Band! :) > > They made some good music, but you can't listen to a complete album of > them, there's the need to skip several songs :p. I agree, with you on that one. I prefer Split Enz?, which had Neil Finn's older brother, Tim. Great stage show! ? Also from New Zealand. :) Don't get the impression Australia haven't any talented musicians of their own, they most certainly have. :) -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 6 13:19:35 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 15:19:35 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> Message-ID: <1396790375.1568.8.camel@archlinux> On Sun, 2014-04-06 at 21:57 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 07:39:56PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Fri, 2014-04-04 at 19:26 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: > > > Remember that "Crowded House" is a New Zealand Band! :) > > > > They made some good music, but you can't listen to a complete album of > > them, there's the need to skip several songs :p. > > I agree, with you on that one. OT, but it might help some people to become real Rock musicians. Pretentious, snobbish? I don't care! I mentioned Radio Birdman, I'm able to listen to all of their music, even when they cover The Stooges, a band I can't take. Crowed House are a good band, making good music, but they don't have a chance to compare to cult rock, as played by e.g. Radio Birdman. This is completely different music. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 6 13:28:27 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 15:28:27 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> Message-ID: <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> On Sun, 2014-04-06 at 21:57 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 07:39:56PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Fri, 2014-04-04 at 19:26 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: > > > Remember that "Crowded House" is a New Zealand Band! :) > > > > They made some good music, but you can't listen to a complete album of > > them, there's the need to skip several songs :p. > > I agree, with you on that one. I prefer Split Enz?, which had Neil Finn's > older brother, Tim. Great stage show! > > ? Also from New Zealand. :) Don't get the impression Australia haven't > any talented musicians of their own, they most certainly have. :) PS: You might like H?sker D?. I don't any of their recordings, but it's nice "soft" rock, very good music. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 6 13:29:47 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 15:29:47 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <1396790987.1568.11.camel@archlinux> On Sun, 2014-04-06 at 15:28 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 2014-04-06 at 21:57 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 07:39:56PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > On Fri, 2014-04-04 at 19:26 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: > > > > Remember that "Crowded House" is a New Zealand Band! :) > > > > > > They made some good music, but you can't listen to a complete album of > > > them, there's the need to skip several songs :p. > > > > I agree, with you on that one. I prefer Split Enz?, which had Neil Finn's > > older brother, Tim. Great stage show! > > > > ? Also from New Zealand. :) Don't get the impression Australia haven't > > any talented musicians of their own, they most certainly have. :) > > PS: You might like H?sker D?. I don't any of their recordings, but it's ^^^ own > nice "soft" rock, very good music. From gurusonic at gmail.com Sun Apr 6 13:54:25 2014 From: gurusonic at gmail.com (Roger) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 23:54:25 +1000 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <1396790987.1568.11.camel@archlinux> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <1396790987.1568.11.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <53415C91.5010207@gmail.com> On 06/04/14 23:29, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 2014-04-06 at 15:28 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> On Sun, 2014-04-06 at 21:57 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote: >>> On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 07:39:56PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>>> On Fri, 2014-04-04 at 19:26 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: >>>>> Remember that "Crowded House" is a New Zealand Band! :) >>>> They made some good music, but you can't listen to a complete album of >>>> them, there's the need to skip several songs :p. >>> I agree, with you on that one. I prefer Split Enz?, which had Neil Finn's >>> older brother, Tim. Great stage show! >>> >>> ? Also from New Zealand. :) Don't get the impression Australia haven't >>> any talented musicians of their own, they most certainly have. :) New Zealand != Australia ! >> PS: You might like H?sker D?. I don't any of their recordings, but it's > ^^^ own >> nice "soft" rock, very good music Cosmic Psychos are nice too. ;) They are very Australian. From grib at billgribble.com Sun Apr 6 13:59:07 2014 From: grib at billgribble.com (Bill Gribble) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 09:59:07 -0400 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> On 04/06/2014 09:28 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > PS: You might like H?sker D?. I don't any of their recordings, but > it's nice "soft" rock, very good music. Be careful here! HD fans largely disown the latter part of their output which matches your description. "Classic" Husker Du was a loud, noisy early-80s Minneapolis hardcore band. Thanks, Bill Gribble From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 6 14:00:03 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 16:00:03 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <53415C91.5010207@gmail.com> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <1396790987.1568.11.camel@archlinux> <53415C91.5010207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1396792803.1568.14.camel@archlinux> On Sun, 2014-04-06 at 23:54 +1000, Roger wrote: > On 06/04/14 23:29, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Sun, 2014-04-06 at 15:28 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >> On Sun, 2014-04-06 at 21:57 +1200, Chris Bannister wrote: > >>> On Sat, Apr 05, 2014 at 07:39:56PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >>>> On Fri, 2014-04-04 at 19:26 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: > >>>>> Remember that "Crowded House" is a New Zealand Band! :) > >>>> They made some good music, but you can't listen to a complete album of > >>>> them, there's the need to skip several songs :p. > >>> I agree, with you on that one. I prefer Split Enz?, which had Neil Finn's > >>> older brother, Tim. Great stage show! > >>> > >>> ? Also from New Zealand. :) Don't get the impression Australia haven't > >>> any talented musicians of their own, they most certainly have. :) > New Zealand != Australia ! > >> PS: You might like H?sker D?. I don't any of their recordings, but it's > > ^^^ own > >> nice "soft" rock, very good music > Cosmic Psychos are nice too. ;) They are very Australian. I suspect we will be band from this list soon (if we won't shut up), however, it's nice for me to meed some Rock'n'Roll fans on this list :). From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 6 14:09:40 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 16:09:40 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> Message-ID: <1396793380.1568.20.camel@archlinux> Bill, there are quotation marks On Sun, 2014-04-06 at 09:59 -0400, Bill Gribble wrote: > On 04/06/2014 09:28 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > PS: You might like H?sker D?. I don't any of their recordings, but > > it's nice "soft" rock, very good music. here ^ ^ > Be careful here! HD fans largely disown the latter part of their output > which matches your description. "Classic" Husker Du was a loud, noisy > early-80s Minneapolis hardcore band. You likely are able to distinguish e.g. H?sker D? from the The Acc?sed or even the "Rock for Light" from the Bad Brains ;). From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 6 14:30:50 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 16:30:50 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> Message-ID: <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> PPS: JFTR For my taste Ant?nio Carlos Jobim, Arnold Sch?nberg, "Winter Journey" from Schubert are Rock'n'Roll, resp. 80s Punk-Rock/Wave" too, most of the interpretations are just crap. From brummer- at web.de Sun Apr 6 14:51:47 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 16:51:47 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <53416A03.1020208@web.de> Am 06.04.2014 16:30, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > PPS: ..... & 6 messages in one hour, pffff, come one ralf don't give up, gime 4 more. ;-) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 6 17:50:36 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 19:50:36 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <53416A03.1020208@web.de> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> Message-ID: <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> On Sun, 2014-04-06 at 16:51 +0200, hermann meyer wrote: > Am 06.04.2014 16:30, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > > PPS: ..... > & 6 messages in one hour, pffff, come one ralf don't give up, gime 4 > more. ;-) Hi Hermann, hopefully one more is enough?! Some Linux musicians for my taste are as much musicians, as people who wear skateboard-shoos are skaters. You only need to take a look at the Ollie hole protection provided by those hip shoes they wear, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ollie_(skateboarding) . Or another analogy, its like wearing motorcycle boots, when even not owning a license to drive a motorcycle. IOW, the people who are or were musicians are the idiots, if they make remarks about what could be improved for Linux audio and those who are just loud moth hobby musicians, members of some audio society, protected by high school jobs, but never jumped into the real shark tank, know everything better, than those who are/were real musicians. Ok, don't care for productive criticism and keep opinions like classical music is the only music, or like Red Hot Chili Peppers and Metallica are Rock musicians. From that point of view Linux audio is perfect. _But_ some people aren't interested in producing classical music or Pseudo-Rock music, what should they/we do, when every hint they/we give is ignored and called snobbish? Thank you for reading and hopefully not ignoring the content, Ralf From djdualcore at gmail.com Sun Apr 6 18:58:48 2014 From: djdualcore at gmail.com (Neil) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 13:58:48 -0500 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 6, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Bill Gribble wrote: > On 04/06/2014 09:28 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >> PS: You might like H?sker D?. I don't any of their recordings, but it's >> nice "soft" rock, very good music. >> > > Be careful here! HD fans largely disown the latter part of their output > which matches your description. "Classic" Husker Du was a loud, noisy > early-80s Minneapolis hardcore band. There is a great book about Husker Du by Andrew Earles, Husker Du: The Story of the Noise-Pop Pioneers Who Launched Modern Rock. I blogged about it and some other rock bio books here, http://oldmixtapes.blogspot.com/2013/02/as-you-may-have-read-in-previous-post-i.html . Among the things I love about Husker Du (there are many) is that while they sometimes seem to repeat themselves within a album, they do not repeat themselves between albums. They constantly changed and did every new thing with the passion of their earliest "too fast to dance too loud to listen" music, even when it included acoustic guitars or keys. Compare this to The Ramones. I have nothing but love for them, too, but the fact is they only had one trick and that's all they did until they retired. Good trick! But just the one. "Baby I Love You" and "Needles and Pins" don't count. That was wasn't The Ramones. That was Phil Specter with a gun to the head of The Ramones. Neil -- DJ Dual Core's Blog http://oldmixtapes.blogspot.com/ Order without government; Peace without violence. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 6 19:10:03 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2014 21:10:03 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> Message-ID: <1396811403.1568.51.camel@archlinux> On Sun, 2014-04-06 at 13:58 -0500, Neil wrote: > They constantly changed and did every new thing with the passion of > their earliest "too fast to dance too loud to listen" music, even when > it included acoustic guitars or keys. :) That's while I mentioned them, when Chris mentioned Crowded House, while the OT topic was Radio Birdman. H?sker D? were rocking as Radio Birdman (in a slightly different style), but had some acoustic moments, as Crowded House had, for sure more often had, than Radio Birdman played non-electrified guitars. I know it's OT, but perhaps the people who post the links to their music made with Linux on this list and those who comment those music, want to listen to old school Rock music and learn a little bit from it too. From james at jwm-art.net Sun Apr 6 20:26:51 2014 From: james at jwm-art.net (James Morris) Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2014 20:26:51 +0000 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 19:50:36 +0200 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Ok, don't care for productive criticism and keep opinions like > classical music is the only music, or like Red Hot Chili Peppers and > Metallica are Rock musicians. From that point of view Linux audio is > perfect. _But_ some people aren't interested in producing classical > music or Pseudo-Rock music, what should they/we do, when every hint > they/we give is ignored and called snobbish? Your gibbering ramblings make me want to defend Justin Bieber. > Thank you for reading and hopefully not ignoring the content, > Ralf Anyone know of an Android email client that can send Ralf's posts to the bin just like Claws-Mail does? Regards, James. From james at jwm-art.net Mon Apr 7 00:07:52 2014 From: james at jwm-art.net (James Morris) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 00:07:52 +0000 Subject: [LAU] wav composer not toilet non-release Message-ID: <20140407000752.1e3946fd@Scrapyard.lan> Hello, After an intensive development of my ten year old project Wav Composer Not toilet, from September 2013 up to the new year, I was intending to make a new release in February, and then March, and then... Unfortunately an official release has not materialized so I'm just saying here is the code, do what the kcuff you like with it. -=-=-=-=-=-= What? Wav Composer Not Toilet is a text based non-professional non-realtime non-interactive modular audio synthesis, sampler, and sequencer by a hobbyist developer scratching an itch which has eased off for now. -=-=-=-=-=-= What's new? The main focus of recent development was intended to create greater flexibility for the user in how modules and 'data objects' are specified within a file. This flexibility allows: * arbitrary ordering of items * optional items * optional groups of items * multiple choice items * self connection of optional inputs This is available in the master branch and can be built like so: git clone https://github.com/jwm-art-net/wcnt.git cd wcnt sed -i 's/DEFS=-ggdb/#DEFS=-ggdb/' Makefile make make examples (the sed command above will remove debugging info that should be removed in a release). After running `make examples` look in the examples/ directory to see what wcnt has done. Wav Composer Not Toilet is hardcoded to use a limited selection of LADSPA plugins and no others, these are: * Bode Frequency Shifter * C* PlateX2 * DC Offset Remover * Fast Lookahead Limiter * Glame Low and High pass filters (+ Butterworth versions) * Single Band Parametric EQ The examples will fail to complete if these are not available. They reside in the C* (formerly Caps) and SWH LADSPA plugin suites. However, in the custom_names branch on github a generic LADSPA module is available which allows specification of arbitrary LADSPA plugins. It is working to a basic extent but unfinished. Carry on. char*s James Morris From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Apr 7 01:22:22 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 03:22:22 +0200 Subject: [LAU] wav composer not toilet non-release In-Reply-To: <20140407000752.1e3946fd@Scrapyard.lan> References: <20140407000752.1e3946fd@Scrapyard.lan> Message-ID: <1396833742.1568.59.camel@archlinux> On Mon, 2014-04-07 at 00:07 +0000, James Morris wrote: > make examples Makefile:56: recipe for target 'examples/drums-tz-01b.wav' failed make: *** [examples/drums-tz-01b.wav] Error 255 I listened to bass01.wav and fox02.wav, for my taste the produced "music" is strange. I looked at the wc files of those wav files. Is there an explanation of the "near english synth definition psuedo-language"? What is it good for? I guess I'm missing something. From cbannister at slingshot.co.nz Mon Apr 7 05:58:52 2014 From: cbannister at slingshot.co.nz (Chris Bannister) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 17:58:52 +1200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <53415C91.5010207@gmail.com> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <1396790987.1568.11.camel@archlinux> <53415C91.5010207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140407055852.GE6561@tal> On Sun, Apr 06, 2014 at 11:54:25PM +1000, Roger wrote: > New Zealand != Australia ! pavlova *cough* *cough* :) > Cosmic Psychos are nice too. ;) They are very Australian. Thanks, I will check them out. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X From laurence.capelin at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 06:21:00 2014 From: laurence.capelin at gmail.com (laurence) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 14:21:00 +0800 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> Message-ID: On 7 April 2014 04:26, James Morris wrote: >Anyone know of an Android email client that can send Ralf's posts to >the bin just like Claws-Mail does? I have only recently joined this list, but I'm already irritated by Mr. Mardorf's opinionated rambling. In fact, it was the first thing that really stood out on this list (ostensibly about linux audio)! I was thinking of unsubscribing in order to return to what I customarily call sanity, but, of course... I can just filter the posts! Thanks, James, for pointing me in the right direction with your comment! :) Unfortunately, I am unable to advise you regarding an android client, however. Regards, Laurence -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From unaudio at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 07:43:55 2014 From: unaudio at gmail.com (unaudio at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 07:43:55 +0000 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> Message-ID: <556221342-1396856632-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-596870675-@b12.c7.bise7.blackberry> The ratio of people who are in to boring generic rock music to people who are not must be like 1000 times higher here than in general population. I wonder what is that about. I feel like in a cakewalk support forum in the 90's sometimes. I?si?sta BlackBerry? pa?tu i? Bit?s -----Original Message----- From: laurence Sender: linux-audio-user-bounces at lists.linuxaudio.org Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 14:21:00 To: James Morris Cc: linux-audio-user Subject: Re: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user From listac at nebelschwaden.de Sat Apr 5 11:43:01 2014 From: listac at nebelschwaden.de (Ede Wolf) Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2014 13:43:01 +0200 Subject: [LAU] How far is Ardour3 with MIDI? (Bitwig: what we can learn from it) In-Reply-To: <533FE300.5060803@gmail.com> References: <1396272125.568.38.camel@archlinux> <533B2848.2090506@linuxuse.de> <20140401214716.GB27222@linuxaudio.org> <533BBA93.4020708@linuxuse.de> <533BC7D9.6090106@hawaii.rr.com> <533BF26F.4090407@gmail.com> <533CF101.8090004@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404075833.GE26381@tal> <533E6A21.4000609@hawaii.rr.com> <20140404105057.GD30132@tal> <533EFF19.5060703@hawaii.rr.com> <533FD071.6000404@gmail.com> <533FD1CC.1060705@gmail.com> <533FD3E1.9060804@gmail.com> <533FD60D.2090802@gareus.org> <533FD77D.50700@gmail.com> <533FE300.5060803@gmail.com> Message-ID: <533FEC45.1000609@nebelschwaden.de> Maybe a bit OT: While I do not know ardour, what MIDI features are you missing that others like rosegarden/muse/qtractor... are not providing? Just out of curiosity, as I am missing a goog step sequencer, even though qmidiarp may be getting there someday, as it has potential for a true killer app. > You've to find a commercial partner who is interested in MIDI mainly... > :) Good MIDI sequencers are very rare on Linux. > > \r From sakrecoer at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 08:26:00 2014 From: sakrecoer at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Set_Hallstr=C3=B6m?=) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 10:26:00 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <556221342-1396856632-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-596870675-@b12.c7.bise7.blackberry> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> <556221342-1396856632-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-596870675-@b12.c7.bise7.blackberry> Message-ID: K9-mail on android. This said, you people are missunderstanding Ralf. In terms of actual production, he is an outstanding knowledge base you do not want to filter out. To get as off-topic as i can in this Off Topic thread. The best filter is your eyes. Except it's few off-topic threads, as far as i use it, Linux Audio Userlist is primarly about audio. I recommend reading and interating with this list that way, because it is a public list of knowledge-storing that is archived. Have delicious week ya all. -- Set Hallstr?m AKA reSet Sakrecoer http://sakrecoer.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gurusonic at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 08:42:08 2014 From: gurusonic at gmail.com (Roger) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 18:42:08 +1000 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <556221342-1396856632-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-596870675-@b12.c7.bise7.blackberry> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> <556221342-1396856632-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-596870675-@b12.c7.bise7.blackberry> Message-ID: <534264E0.9050802@gmail.com> On 07/04/14 17:43, unaudio at gmail.com wrote: > The ratio of people who are in to boring generic rock music to people who are not must be like 1000 times higher here than in general population. I wonder what is that about. I feel like in a cakewalk support forum in the 90's sometimes. You can't say that. This is an equal opportunity list. Just about every imaginable genre has time in the limelight, and everyone can like or hate whichever takes their fancy. Actually, I hate genres. I like some country, some reggae, some hard rock, some classical, some EDM and house music, but dislike some examples of the same genres. Roger From alf at mellomrommet.no Mon Apr 7 10:26:30 2014 From: alf at mellomrommet.no (Alf Haakon Lund) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 12:26:30 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> <556221342-1396856632-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-596870675-@b12.c7.bise7.blackberry> Message-ID: <53427D56.1070805@mellomrommet.no> On 07. april 2014 10:26, Set Hallstr?m wrote: > K9-mail on android. > > This said, you people are missunderstanding Ralf. In terms of actual > production, he is an outstanding knowledge base you do not want to filter > out. > > To get as off-topic as i can in this Off Topic thread. The best filter is > your eyes. Except it's few off-topic threads, as far as i use it, Linux > Audio Userlist is primarly about audio. I recommend reading and interating > with this list that way, because it is a public list of knowledge-storing > that is archived. > > Have delicious week ya all. "the best filter is your eyes" +1 ! From list at nilsgey.de Mon Apr 7 12:39:59 2014 From: list at nilsgey.de (Nils) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 14:39:59 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <53427D56.1070805@mellomrommet.no> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> <556221342-1396856632-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-596870675-@b12.c7.bise7.blackberry> <53427D56.1070805@mellomrommet.no> Message-ID: <53429C9F.70107@nilsgey.de> On 07.04.2014 12:26, Alf Haakon Lund wrote: > > > On 07. april 2014 10:26, Set Hallstr?m wrote: >> To get as off-topic as i can in this Off Topic thread. The best >> filter is >> your eyes. > > "the best filter is your eyes" +1 ! Actually it is the brain. From sakrecoer at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 10:47:52 2014 From: sakrecoer at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Set_Hallstr=C3=B6m?=) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 12:47:52 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <53429C9F.70107@nilsgey.de> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> <556221342-1396856632-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-596870675-@b12.c7.bise7.blackberry> <53427D56.1070805@mellomrommet.no> <53429C9F.70107@nilsgey.de> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Nils wrote: > > On 07.04.2014 12:26, Alf Haakon Lund wrote: > >> >> >> On 07. april 2014 10:26, Set Hallstr?m wrote: >> >>> To get as off-topic as i can in this Off Topic thread. The best filter is >>> your eyes. >>> >> >> "the best filter is your eyes" +1 ! >> > > Actually it is the brain. > > hahahah!!! :) true, althou i am tempted to question how that applies to zombies.... but i won't because i'm affraid anyone involved in this conversation (including me) could take that personaly :D -- Set Hallstr?m AKA reSet Sakrecoer http://sakrecoer.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zotz at 100jamz.com Mon Apr 7 11:18:37 2014 From: zotz at 100jamz.com (drew Roberts) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 07:18:37 -0400 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <53429C9F.70107@nilsgey.de> Message-ID: <201404070718.37939.zotz@100jamz.com> On Monday 07 April 2014 06:47:52 Set Hallstr?m wrote: > how that applies to > zombies.... back to back, belly to belly... -- This is drew's personal email account and is not related to Tribune Radio Ltd. From laurence.capelin at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 11:26:46 2014 From: laurence.capelin at gmail.com (laurence) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 19:26:46 +0800 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> <556221342-1396856632-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-596870675-@b12.c7.bise7.blackberry> <53427D56.1070805@mellomrommet.no> <53429C9F.70107@nilsgey.de> Message-ID: Ha! I suppose I'm basically a zombie on this list. :) Point taken, anyhow. On 7 April 2014 18:47, Set Hallstr?m wrote: > > > > On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 2:39 PM, Nils wrote: > >> >> On 07.04.2014 12:26, Alf Haakon Lund wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 07. april 2014 10:26, Set Hallstr?m wrote: >>> >>>> To get as off-topic as i can in this Off Topic thread. The best filter >>>> is >>>> your eyes. >>>> >>> >>> "the best filter is your eyes" +1 ! >>> >> >> Actually it is the brain. >> >> > hahahah!!! :) true, althou i am tempted to question how that applies to > zombies.... but i won't because i'm affraid anyone involved in this > conversation (including me) could take that personaly :D > > > -- > Set Hallstr?m > AKA > reSet Sakrecoer > http://sakrecoer.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbannister at slingshot.co.nz Mon Apr 7 11:33:55 2014 From: cbannister at slingshot.co.nz (Chris Bannister) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 23:33:55 +1200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <53429C9F.70107@nilsgey.de> References: <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> <556221342-1396856632-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-596870675-@b12.c7.bise7.blackberry> <53427D56.1070805@mellomrommet.no> <53429C9F.70107@nilsgey.de> Message-ID: <20140407113354.GA13197@tal> On Mon, Apr 07, 2014 at 02:39:59PM +0200, Nils wrote: > > On 07.04.2014 12:26, Alf Haakon Lund wrote: > > > > > >On 07. april 2014 10:26, Set Hallstr?m wrote: > >>To get as off-topic as i can in this Off Topic thread. The best filter > >>is > >>your eyes. > > > >"the best filter is your eyes" +1 ! > > Actually it is the brain. I think the difference is moot: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_the_retina_part_of_the_brain -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X From silvain at freeshell.de Mon Apr 7 13:20:27 2014 From: silvain at freeshell.de (F. Silvain) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 15:20:27 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] wav composer not toilet non-release In-Reply-To: <20140407000752.1e3946fd@Scrapyard.lan> References: <20140407000752.1e3946fd@Scrapyard.lan> Message-ID: <1404071518410.7720@freeshell.de> James Morris, Apr 7 2014: > Hello, > > > After an intensive development of my ten year old project Wav Composer > Not toilet, from September 2013 up to the new year, I was intending to > make a new release in February, and then March, and then... ... Hey James, thank you for this tool. I compiled it and listened to a few of the examples. Unfortunately wcnt doesn't find my Plate2x2 although it is properly installed. I'll continue the experiments as soon as my schedule allows. :) Ta-ta ---- Ffanci * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain From olijaun at yahoo.com Mon Apr 7 14:07:15 2014 From: olijaun at yahoo.com (Oliver Jaun) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 07:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] In search of a Linux Drum synth plugin In-Reply-To: <534115B5.3090701@autostatic.com> References: <53407A59.3060403@gnu.org> <534115B5.3090701@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <1396879635.43073.YahooMailNeo@web163403.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Hi I asked the question some time ago: here is the thread http://linuxaudio.org/mailarchive/lau/2012/12/29/195393 The most promising was http://deliriumdecrypted.blogspot.ru/2012/11/stegosaurus-lv2-analogue-style.html but unfortunately there seems to be no release yet... Regards Oliver On Sunday, April 6, 2014 10:52 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: On 04/05/2014 11:49 PM, Philippe Coatmeur wrote: > Hello everybody > > I mainly read the ML and apologize in advance for the annoyance of such > a dumb question, but I have been in search of a good synthesis-only > percussive sound generation solution for so long I cannot remember. > > When I play with the latest sunvox, that I use on mobile platforms > (Meego / Harmattan and Maemo) and hear the wonders that Alex made with > the kicker and DrumSynth module, I really wonder how come are there no > such thing as a solid (Native, ideally LV2, but realistically DSSI) > drumsynth plugin? Or maybe I'm missing something? > I would really like to. > > Phil > Hello Phil, Check Distrho, it contains the DrumSynth plugin ported to LinuxVST and LV2: http://distrho.sourceforge.net/ports.php DrumSynth is part of the Juced Plugins: http://www.anticore.org/jucetice/?page_id=7 Another option is to use LMMS which can load .ds files too and has a Kicker synth. Bye, Jeremy _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Mon Apr 7 16:35:49 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 17:35:49 +0100 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <534264E0.9050802@gmail.com> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> <556221342-1396856632-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-596870675-@b12.c7.bise7.blackberry> <534264E0.9050802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140407173549.1b36905a@debian> On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 18:42:08 +1000 Roger wrote: >> Actually, I hate genres. I like some country, some reggae, some hard > rock, some classical, some EDM and house music, but dislike some > examples of the same genres. > > Roger Well said! -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From rncbc at rncbc.org Mon Apr 7 16:35:35 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 17:35:35 +0100 Subject: [LAU] [ANN] Vee One Suite 0.4.1 - A proto-beta bis release! Message-ID: <5342D3D7.2060502@rncbc.org> The Vee One Suite of (maybe not so anymore) old-school specialized instruments gets an update to a new bis encore... the changes for this second proto-beta release are: - once so called 'Noise' wave-shapes are now being made a lot more deterministic, read idempotent ;). - fully alias-free/band-limited wavetable oscillators are now in place, making it a better virtual-analog synthesizer (esp. for running sample-rates below 96KHz; synthv1 [1] only). - late optimizations to basic wave-table oscillators. - make sure the LV2 plugin back-end always builds first, before its respective LV2 UI front-end client. all still available in dual form: - a pure stand-alone JACK client with JACK-session, NSM (Non Session management) and both JACK MIDI and ALSA MIDI input support; - a LV2 instrument plugin. all made free and open-source Linux Audio software, distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL) version 2 or later. and there they are: [1] synthv1 - an old-school polyphonic synthesizer synthv1 is an old-school all-digital 4-oscillator subtractive polyphonic synthesizer with stereo fx. LV2 URI: http://synthv1.sourceforge.net/lv2 website: http://synthv1.sourceforge.net downloads: http://sourceforge.net/projects/synthv1/files - source tarball: http://download.sourceforge.net/synthv1/synthv1-0.4.1.tar.gz - source package: http://download.sourceforge.net/synthv1/synthv1-0.4.1-15.rncbc.suse131.src.rpm - binary packages: http://download.sourceforge.net/synthv1/synthv1-0.4.1-15.rncbc.suse131.i586.rpm http://download.sourceforge.net/synthv1/synthv1-0.4.1-15.rncbc.suse131.x86_84.rpm [2] samplv1 - an old-school polyphonic sampler samplv1 is an(other) old-school all-digital polyphonic sampler synthesizer with stereo fx. LV2 URI: http://samplv1.sourceforge.net/lv2 website: http://samplv1.sourceforge.net downloads: http://sourceforge.net/projects/samplv1/files - source tarball: http://download.sourceforge.net/samplv1/samplv1-0.4.1.tar.gz - source package: http://download.sourceforge.net/samplv1/samplv1-0.4.1-15.rncbc.suse131.src.rpm - binary packages: http://download.sourceforge.net/samplv1/samplv1-0.4.1-15.rncbc.suse131.i586.rpm http://download.sourceforge.net/samplv1/samplv1-0.4.1-15.rncbc.suse131.x86_84.rpm [3] drumkv1 - an old-school drum-kit sampler drumkv1 is (yet) an(other) old-school all-digital drum-kit sampler synthesizer with stereo fx. LV2 URI: http://drumkv1.sourceforge.net/lv2 website: http://drumkv1.sourceforge.net downloads: http://sourceforge.net/projects/drumkv1/files - source tarball: http://download.sourceforge.net/drumkv1/drumkv1-0.4.1.tar.gz - source package: http://download.sourceforge.net/drumkv1/drumkv1-0.4.1-11.rncbc.suse131.src.rpm - binary packages: http://download.sourceforge.net/drumkv1/drumkv1-0.4.1-11.rncbc.suse131.i586.rpm http://download.sourceforge.net/drumkv1/drumkv1-0.4.1-11.rncbc.suse131.x86_84.rpm see also: http://www.rncbc.org/drupal/node/775 enjoy && again, have fun! -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc at rncbc.org From janina at rednote.net Mon Apr 7 18:57:03 2014 From: janina at rednote.net (Janina Sajka) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 14:57:03 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Music Editors for Blind Users? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140407185703.GA8185@concerto.rednote.net> Paul Davis writes: > Your post was very long and my response will not directly address what you > wrote. I am quoting something I wrote a couple of years ago about > interfaces for this blind people. It makes a single but I think critical > point. > > ------------- > > years ago someone paid me to do a text-based UI for ardour. it was centered > on very efficient use of the keyboard and using a screen-reader. > > the code probably still exists. i don't think it was very successful, > partly for the reasons identified in the text you sent. but i think there > is a more important reason. > > working with audio tends to involve the use of the screen to act as a kind > of memory. there are a ton of parameters in play, and its a huge barrier if > you constantly need to remember what they are all set to. the 2d expanse of > the screen represents a kind of 2nd level cache of this information, where > a sighted person can simply glance around and discover what they need to > know about the current state of things. > > reproducing this functionality without the information-dense medium that > the screen represents is a HUGE challenge. i've thought about it on and off > every since the "ksi" interface for ardour was done. i have no ideas on how > anyone could make progress on this. i think its a very interesting, very, > very hard problem. i have no time to work on it. > If you are in a position to rely on the screen, you have no reason to become adept at remembering all those details. The converse also holds. It's the same learning a score to play from memory, vs knowing that you will always be able to rely on a printed score on the music stand, i.e. it's not about the ability to see, but about the operational sassumptions. Concert pianists (and other concert soloists) memorize concertos. Chamber players tend to play from scores, as do vocal accompanyists. PS: The problems I had with the keyboard interface to Ardour was that it didn't work in any packaged version I was able to install. Ideally, any such command input overlay would persist as the underlying application is versioned up. But, as I recall, your work was outside of any a11y supporting framework, so was probably bound encounter problems. > as a practical note, if someone wants to do something like this, it would > obviously be quite likely that basing their efforts on an open source tool > is likely to offer a lot of possibilities that are simply not available > when using closed source tools. > Well, the blind musicians community appears to be pretty happy with Avid products just now, specifically ProTools v. 11 and up. It's regretable that desktop F/OSS has underperformed for AT users, especially as the successful API-based approach was first developed on F/OSS. Linux might have enjoyed "first out of the box a11y support" on the desktop, but never got it quite together, so that bragging point went to Apple. Then there's the pulseaudio travesty which was foisted into Linux without a11y requirements considerations. One could go on and on. Janina > ----------------- > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -- Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 sip:janina at asterisk.rednote.net Email: janina at rednote.net Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/ From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Apr 7 19:09:00 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 09:09:00 -1000 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <534264E0.9050802@gmail.com> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> <556221342-1396856632-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-596870675-@b12.c7.bise7.blackberry> <534264E0.9050802@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5342F7CC.9050004@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/06/2014 10:42 PM, Roger wrote: > On 07/04/14 17:43, unaudio at gmail.com wrote: >> The ratio of people who are in to boring generic rock music to people >> who are not must be like 1000 times higher here than in general >> population. I wonder what is that about. I feel like in a cakewalk >> support forum in the 90's sometimes. > You can't say that. This is an equal opportunity list. Just about every > imaginable genre has time in the limelight, and everyone can like or > hate whichever takes their fancy. > Actually, I hate genres. I like some country, some reggae, some hard > rock, some classical, some EDM and house music, but dislike some > examples of the same genres. I'm another who doesn't like genres (in books or music). Genres are sales and marketing tools invented by book/music sellers, not authors or musicians. I like a range of things in both fields of art. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From fons at linuxaudio.org Mon Apr 7 20:32:50 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 20:32:50 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Music Editors for Blind Users? In-Reply-To: <20140407185703.GA8185@concerto.rednote.net> References: <20140407185703.GA8185@concerto.rednote.net> Message-ID: <20140407203250.GC558@linuxaudio.org> On Mon, Apr 07, 2014 at 02:57:03PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > If you are in a position to rely on the screen, you have no reason to > become adept at remembering all those details. The converse also holds. I've seen blind people cut and splice tape, and very accurately. It depends probably on the kind of editing you want to do. If it isn't too complex (such as moving fragments in time AND between tracks at the same time while keeping those tracks aligned), it surely can be done without having the visual representation. The real problem here is probably that the type of editing operations that Ardour supports are more visual than logical. Things like 3-pt and 4-pt editing can be done easily without having a visual representation - I've done a lot of that. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Mon Apr 7 21:55:56 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 00:55:56 +0300 Subject: [LAU] Music Editors for Blind Users? In-Reply-To: <20140407203250.GC558@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140407185703.GA8185@concerto.rednote.net> <20140407203250.GC558@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Mon, Apr 07, 2014 at 02:57:03PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > > > If you are in a position to rely on the screen, you have no reason to > > become adept at remembering all those details. The converse also holds. > > [... ] > > It depends probably on the kind of editing you want to do. > If it isn't too complex (such as moving fragments in time > AND between tracks at the same time while keeping those > tracks aligned), it surely can be done without having the > visual representation. > > actually i wasn't thinking of editing as much as mixing. you can remember the solo, mute, gain, and FX state of a moderately sized session in your head without a visual reminder? editing is actually easier for many cases precisely for the reasons you outlined. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From simonzwise at gmail.com Mon Apr 7 22:49:01 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 08:49:01 +1000 Subject: [LAU] Music Editors for Blind Users? In-Reply-To: References: <20140407185703.GA8185@concerto.rednote.net> <20140407203250.GC558@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <53432B5D.40305@gmail.com> On 08/04/14 07:55, Paul Davis wrote: > On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 11:32 PM, Fons Adriaensenwrote: > >> On Mon, Apr 07, 2014 at 02:57:03PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: >> >>> If you are in a position to rely on the screen, you have no reason to >>> become adept at remembering all those details. The converse also holds. >> >> [... ] > > >> >> It depends probably on the kind of editing you want to do. >> If it isn't too complex (such as moving fragments in time >> AND between tracks at the same time while keeping those >> tracks aligned), it surely can be done without having the >> visual representation. >> >> > actually i wasn't thinking of editing as much as mixing. you can remember > the solo, mute, gain, and FX state of a moderately sized session in your > head without a visual reminder? it depends on what you are practiced at, in a different but related field ... plotting lighting cues in a theatre ... it is very common to be the designer and have someone else operating the desk, then keeping large sets of channel numbers and existing states in your head makes it a lot quicker and easier to communicate as you walk around the space. Casual observers find this dialogue very strange. Interestingly operating audio you often look down at the desk, operating lights the effect is visual and not looking at the desk is important. > > editing is actually easier for many cases precisely for the reasons you > outlined. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user From fons at linuxaudio.org Mon Apr 7 23:58:27 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2014 23:58:27 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Music Editors for Blind Users? In-Reply-To: References: <20140407185703.GA8185@concerto.rednote.net> <20140407203250.GC558@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <20140407235827.GD558@linuxaudio.org> On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 12:55:56AM +0300, Paul Davis wrote: > actually i wasn't thinking of editing as much as mixing. you can remember > the solo, mute, gain, and FX state of a moderately sized session in your > head without a visual reminder? Sure. As can every audio engineer who has done his share of live mixing. Of course on a 'real' mixer some settings are visible, but if you depend on that you'll be in trouble before you know it - at least if you're dealing with 30+ channels. Much of that depends on ergonomic design of the mixer, which is what sets the real top class apart from the rest. In my experience Neve was the best at that - you could reach for any control and have the right one every time, even when the the only lights were the level meters and a candle or two, as was often the case. I *do* remember the first time I had to do anything on this scale 'on air' - it was quite scary. Studio 1 in Brussels, big band, 20 or so players + solos, Harrison console, live broadcast and 24-track recording. All levels carefully set before turned out wrong because the band had been drinking between the rehearsal and the concert, and they were 'in the mood'. But after a few times you get your grips on the situation and you can relax. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Tue Apr 8 05:03:09 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 08:03:09 +0300 Subject: [LAU] Music Editors for Blind Users? In-Reply-To: <53432B5D.40305@gmail.com> References: <20140407185703.GA8185@concerto.rednote.net> <20140407203250.GC558@linuxaudio.org> <53432B5D.40305@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 1:49 AM, Simon Wise wrote: > > it depends on what you are practiced at, in a different but related field > ... plotting lighting cues in a theatre ... it is very common to be the > designer and have someone else operating the desk, then keeping large sets > of channel numbers and existing states in your head makes it a lot quicker > and easier to communicate as you walk around the space. Casual observers > find this dialogue very strange. Interestingly operating audio you often > look down at the desk, operating lights the effect is visual and not > looking at the desk is important. > Understood, but I'm not sure of the relevance of this observation/behaviour to a situation where the lights themselves function as a "visual memory/display" of the current state. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Tue Apr 8 05:18:51 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 08:18:51 +0300 Subject: [LAU] Music Editors for Blind Users? In-Reply-To: <20140407235827.GD558@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140407185703.GA8185@concerto.rednote.net> <20140407203250.GC558@linuxaudio.org> <20140407235827.GD558@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 2:58 AM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 12:55:56AM +0300, Paul Davis wrote: > > > actually i wasn't thinking of editing as much as mixing. you can remember > > the solo, mute, gain, and FX state of a moderately sized session in your > > head without a visual reminder? > > Sure. As can every audio engineer who has done his share of > live mixing. This doesn't fit with what I've seen in live mixing situations. I understand the importance of the ergonomics, but I would suggest that if you were using the best designed mixer and it was altered in one small way, my question above would remain rhetorically on target. The modification would be to (a) remove all value indicators from the mixer (b) replace all the knobs with "endless v-pots". Even in live sound, engineers are making constant visual inspection of the mixer controls and state displays. I don't doubt that it is *possible* to get so good at the job that you really could memorize the entire state of the console, and I certainly do not doubt the importance of ergonomic design, but I strongly suspect that most people continue to rely on the state of the mixer as represented by the visual state to avoid having to actually perform this full memorization. In addition, live sound and the editing+mixing workflow are two different things, related by a common set of concepts and tools. This is easily demonstrated by the existence of consoles built specifically for live sound. Certainly one could make a studio console work, but the workflow is sufficiently differentiated that people have pressed for changes to make things easier. I think this discussion has reminded me also of why I think this applies to editing as well. Although it is true that things like 4- and 3-point edit ops can be performed without visual feedback, my original point was that the visual aspects of a DAW or NLE act as a kind of memory for the user, not as a means of enabling operations. What matters about the DAW display is not that it allows you to perform an edit, but that it shows you very easily "what is where". To be honest, I think that if I were a blind user and needed to edit, I would probably be looking at tools that used the same kind of workflow as RTCmix or something similar. A fully text-based representation of the operations/mix that can be easily manipulated without any visual presentation. RTCmix has the downside that (if I recall correctly) it can only play back the entire mix, but I would have thought that this sort of thing would be a better starting point for a "music editor for blind users" than Ardour. Finally, to the Janina, I would note that Ardour KSI was created early in Ardour's life when we barely had an edittor at all. The interface allowed control of the mixer and not of editing operations. And as for why it did not participate in any a11y standards: the blind user who paid me to develop it did not like them and wanted something radically different. --p > Of course on a 'real' mixer some settings are > visible, but if you depend on that you'll be in trouble before > you know it - at least if you're dealing with 30+ channels. > Much of that depends on ergonomic design of the mixer, which > is what sets the real top class apart from the rest. In my > experience Neve was the best at that - you could reach for > any control and have the right one every time, even when the > the only lights were the level meters and a candle or two, > as was often the case. > > I *do* remember the first time I had to do anything on this > scale 'on air' - it was quite scary. Studio 1 in Brussels, > big band, 20 or so players + solos, Harrison console, live > broadcast and 24-track recording. All levels carefully set > before turned out wrong because the band had been drinking > between the rehearsal and the concert, and they were 'in > the mood'. But after a few times you get your grips on the > situation and you can relax. > > Ciao, > > -- > FA > > A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. > It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris > and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Tue Apr 8 05:31:18 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 19:31:18 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Wearable musical gloves Message-ID: <534389A6.1010603@hawaii.rr.com> Saw this earlier today: http://www.techrepublic.com/article/wearable-mi-mu-gloves-the-next-big-breakthrough-in-music/ The Kickstarter project has a long ways to go to make its funding goal. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From cmetzler at speakeasy.net Tue Apr 8 05:44:38 2014 From: cmetzler at speakeasy.net (Chris Metzler) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 01:44:38 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors Message-ID: <20140408014438.4e7c13af@stax> In the past, I've sorta DIY'd my home machines -- sorta because it's been more integration than building. Most of the parts would come from some vendor like Newegg; but the processor+cooling/motherboard/memory would come from the now long-departed Monarch Computer. The part of building that scared me was doing a good job coupling the heatsink to the processor; Monarch sold processor/motherboard combos where they'd taken care of that, and tested the combo to make sure it was happy before sending it to you. And their prices were good and they were reliable. So, I'd do a little research on motherboards, pick a couple of candidates, then google to see whether other folks were using those motherboards with Linux and what experiences they were having. And if it all looked good, I'd order it all and do the final integration, and I've never had any problems, including with Linux/hardware compatibility. However, it's been quite a while since I did this the last time, mainly because the machine I have now has done me pretty good. But I'm ready to replace my machine, and apparently two things have happened since the last time: - Monarch became an unreliable company, then went bust; - I became insanely busy all the time, and less motivated (but not completely unmotivated) to build. So, I'm looking to find out about hardware vendors. Specifically, I want to know about: 1. folks selling fully-built machines with Linux in mind, so that there'll be no real worries about any hardware compatibility issues; 2. folks selling motherboard/processor combos that they test before shipping to the customer, like Monarch did back when they were still around and reliable. In case it matters, I tend to go for as souped-up a home machine as I can, and then ride it for a long time. The machine I end up with will be used for Linux audio, with an Audiofire 8 interface that'll connect to the machine by Firewire. So obviously it's going to need to have low latencies in mind. It'll also get used for gaming, and for code development for scientific computing. I dunno whether it's even an option anymore, but having one legacy PCI slot around would be nice, but isn't a dealbreaker if that's just too obsolete. Any suggestions on vendors to look at, or sources of information on build options (I used to start at Tom's Hardware and Anandtech years ago; dunno if they're still the best choices), would all be greatly appreciated. Thanks much! -c -- Chris Metzler cmetzler at speakeasy.snip-me.net (remove "snip-me." to email) "As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pshirkey at boosthardware.com Tue Apr 8 06:59:54 2014 From: pshirkey at boosthardware.com (Patrick Shirkey) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 16:59:54 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: <20140408014438.4e7c13af@stax> References: <20140408014438.4e7c13af@stax> Message-ID: <55067.86.107.254.57.1396940394.squirrel@boosthardware.com> On Tue, April 8, 2014 3:44 pm, Chris Metzler wrote: > > In the past, I've sorta DIY'd my home machines -- sorta because it's > been more integration than building. Most of the parts would come from > some vendor like Newegg; but the processor+cooling/motherboard/memory > would come from the now long-departed Monarch Computer. The part of > building that scared me was doing a good job coupling the heatsink to > the processor; Monarch sold processor/motherboard combos where they'd > taken care of that, and tested the combo to make sure it was happy > before sending it to you. And their prices were good and they were > reliable. So, I'd do a little research on motherboards, pick a couple > of candidates, then google to see whether other folks were using those > motherboards with Linux and what experiences they were having. And if > it all looked good, I'd order it all and do the final integration, and > I've never had any problems, including with Linux/hardware > compatibility. > > However, it's been quite a while since I did this the last time, mainly > because the machine I have now has done me pretty good. But I'm ready > to replace my machine, and apparently two things have happened since > the last time: > > - Monarch became an unreliable company, then went bust; > > - I became insanely busy all the time, and less motivated (but not > completely unmotivated) to build. > > So, I'm looking to find out about hardware vendors. Specifically, I > want to know about: > > 1. folks selling fully-built machines with Linux in mind, so that > there'll be no real worries about any hardware compatibility issues; > > 2. folks selling motherboard/processor combos that they test before > shipping to the customer, like Monarch did back when they were still > around and reliable. > > In case it matters, I tend to go for as souped-up a home machine as I > can, and then ride it for a long time. The machine I end up with will > be used for Linux audio, with an Audiofire 8 interface that'll connect > to the machine by Firewire. So obviously it's going to need to have low > latencies in mind. It'll also get used for gaming, and for code > development for scientific computing. I dunno whether it's even an > option anymore, but having one legacy PCI slot around would be nice, > but isn't a dealbreaker if that's just too obsolete. > > Any suggestions on vendors to look at, or sources of information on > build options (I used to start at Tom's Hardware and Anandtech years > ago; dunno if they're still the best choices), would all be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks much! > I have found the Intel NUC range is well supported by Intel and has the power to do the job. They have a dedicated support channel and were able to quickly roll out firmware updates based on my feedback. Another option is an ASUS mini-itx board in a Shuttle case. If you go that route you will also be able to install an ATI or NVidia GPU and leverage the power of openCL support in ffmpeg. If you want a well supported board then you should probably stay away from AMD. They are getting worse not better. But if you do choose AMD the fusion chips offer reasonable performance vs cost/power consumption. Just don't expect any real support from AMD. Even the open source drivers are developed by NVidia devs in their spare time. If you just want a decent low cost machine that gives you all the power you need then the NUC's are hard to beat. Gigabyte are also competing with the same form factor but I haven't tested their offering yet. It looks like they are using the reference design for the NUC though so it should be well supported. FYI, several LAD's have also looked into the various Android devices that are on the market. I have found that the ARM Chips are just not powerful enough for serious professional work but they are very good at handling specific use cases especially for things like fx boxes or dedicated machines running specific low latency tasks. If you are interested in visual multimedia the difference between the graphics on an ARM board versus the NUC or a dedicated ATI/NVIdia GPU is a non starter. The ARM boards are not pbscene but the quality difference is noticeable. I have found the low end NUCs can handle full screen 1080p at around 25 fps for a modern 3d engine which allows to capture almost decent 1080p video but a more powerful GPU can handle 200FPS on the same engine. If you are into gaming the low end NUC's will allow you to play but you will want a more powerful model to have the optimum experience. In that case I recommend looking into the i3/i5 models. You can get a pcie card for firewire support. Failing all of the above a new ultrabook might give you performance and mobility but the price difference is substantial. -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 8 08:50:29 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 08:50:29 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Music Editors for Blind Users? In-Reply-To: References: <20140407185703.GA8185@concerto.rednote.net> <20140407203250.GC558@linuxaudio.org> <20140407235827.GD558@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <20140408085028.GA17953@linuxaudio.org> On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 12:55:56AM +0300, Paul Davis wrote: > This doesn't fit with what I've seen in live mixing situations. I > understand the importance of the ergonomics, but I would suggest that if > you were using the best designed mixer and it was altered in one small way, > my question above would remain rhetorically on target. > modification would be to (a) remove all value indicators from the mixer > (b) replace all the knobs with "endless v-pots". It would no longer be 'the best designed mixer'. You need to see values when setting things up. With a bit of experience you know e.g. what sort of EQ will be needed for a particular channel, and being able to prepare such things or set them very quickly without too much trial and error makes all the difference. If you need half the sound- check or rehearsal time to do that there's a problem. Once the show is running you typically only make small changes. What is important then is being able to find all controls quicly without having to search for them, and preferably without having to take your eyes from the stage for longer than a split second. Which is where the ergonomics come in. Of course it's reassuring to be able to see all settings. But you don't need to see all of them all the time, what matters is how and how quickly you get acces to them. > In addition, live sound and the editing+mixing workflow are two different > things, related by a common set of concepts and tools. This is easily > demonstrated by the existence of consoles built specifically for live > sound. Certainly one could make a studio console work, but the workflow is > sufficiently differentiated that people have pressed for changes to make > things easier. That is very clear today, when a DAW is used not just to record and mix (by a sound engineer) but to actually 'compose' a piece (by a musician), and the whole workflow is essentially based on random acess on the time axis. In the 'tape' days there was much less difference between 'live' and 'studio' work. The mixers we used (Neve, Harrison, SSL) where all 'studio' ones, and they were perfectly suited to this kind of work. Consoles like Digico are different because they are build for PA which has its own requirements. But I wouldn't want to use those to mix a live broadcast. > ... > To be honest, I think that if I were a blind user and needed to edit, I > would probably be looking at tools that used the same kind of workflow as > RTCmix or something similar. A fully text-based representation of the > operations/mix that can be easily manipulated without any visual > presentation. RTCmix has the downside that (if I recall correctly) it can > only play back the entire mix, but I would have thought that this sort of > thing would be a better starting point for a "music editor for blind users" > than Ardour. It will all depend on the type of editing that is required. Blind users could easily edit tape, and also use the early generation of hard disk recorders before these developed into full-featured DAWs. These couldn't do the sort of thing a DAW can do today, but for some types of work they were actually better. Ciaom, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From simonzwise at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 09:10:36 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 19:10:36 +1000 Subject: [LAU] Music Editors for Blind Users? In-Reply-To: References: <20140407185703.GA8185@concerto.rednote.net> <20140407203250.GC558@linuxaudio.org> <53432B5D.40305@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5343BD0C.8030406@gmail.com> On 08/04/14 15:03, Paul Davis wrote: > On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 1:49 AM, Simon Wise wrote: > >> >> it depends on what you are practiced at, in a different but related field >> ... plotting lighting cues in a theatre ... it is very common to be the >> designer and have someone else operating the desk, then keeping large sets >> of channel numbers and existing states in your head makes it a lot quicker >> and easier to communicate as you walk around the space. Casual observers >> find this dialogue very strange. Interestingly operating audio you often >> look down at the desk, operating lights the effect is visual and not >> looking at the desk is important. >> > > Understood, but I'm not sure of the relevance of this observation/behaviour > to a situation where the lights themselves function as a "visual > memory/display" of the current state. > no more than the sound does, you can hear what's playing just as easily ... it is not easier to know which light needs tweaking on a stage than which instrument in a mix, and no more obvious which channel to adjust from the look than which channel to adjust from the sound. Simon From james at jwm-art.net Tue Apr 8 09:08:53 2014 From: james at jwm-art.net (James Morris) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 09:08:53 +0000 Subject: [LAU] wav composer not toilet non-release In-Reply-To: <1396833742.1568.59.camel@archlinux> References: <20140407000752.1e3946fd@Scrapyard.lan> <1396833742.1568.59.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <20140408090853.12f8072d@Scrapyard.lan> On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 03:22:22 +0200 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Mon, 2014-04-07 at 00:07 +0000, James Morris wrote: > > make examples > > Makefile:56: recipe for target 'examples/drums-tz-01b.wav' failed > make: *** [examples/drums-tz-01b.wav] Error 255 I've updated the examples, do a `git checkout` and try `make examples` again. > > I listened to bass01.wav and fox02.wav, for my taste the produced > "music" is strange. I looked at the wc files of those wav files. Is > there an explanation of the "near english synth definition > psuedo-language"? What is it good for? I guess I'm missing something. If the examples work this time round, you'll hopefully get a better idea - but I'll wager you'll find it even more 'strange'. Cheers, james. From james at jwm-art.net Tue Apr 8 09:10:39 2014 From: james at jwm-art.net (James Morris) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 09:10:39 +0000 Subject: [LAU] wav composer not toilet non-release In-Reply-To: <20140408090853.12f8072d@Scrapyard.lan> References: <20140407000752.1e3946fd@Scrapyard.lan> <1396833742.1568.59.camel@archlinux> <20140408090853.12f8072d@Scrapyard.lan> Message-ID: <20140408091039.1f606285@Scrapyard.lan> > > > make examples > > > > Makefile:56: recipe for target 'examples/drums-tz-01b.wav' failed > > make: *** [examples/drums-tz-01b.wav] Error 255 > > I've updated the examples, do a `git checkout` and try `make > examples` again. Sorry, `git pull` is what I meant. From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 8 09:22:11 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 09:22:11 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Music Editors for Blind Users? In-Reply-To: <5343BD0C.8030406@gmail.com> References: <20140407185703.GA8185@concerto.rednote.net> <20140407203250.GC558@linuxaudio.org> <53432B5D.40305@gmail.com> <5343BD0C.8030406@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140408092211.GC17953@linuxaudio.org> On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 07:10:36PM +1000, Simon Wise wrote: > no more than the sound does, you can hear what's playing just as > easily ... it is not easier to know which light needs tweaking on a > stage than which instrument in a mix, and no more obvious which > channel to adjust from the look than which channel to adjust from > the sound. Based on my very limited experience in controlling lights I'd say it's even more difficult. If what you see is the combined effect of many lights it's not obvious at all what is the contribution of each individual one. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From james at jwm-art.net Tue Apr 8 09:45:09 2014 From: james at jwm-art.net (James Morris) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 09:45:09 +0000 Subject: [LAU] wav composer not toilet non-release In-Reply-To: <1396833742.1568.59.camel@archlinux> References: <20140407000752.1e3946fd@Scrapyard.lan> <1396833742.1568.59.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <20140408094509.039ca1ed@Scrapyard.lan> On Mon, 07 Apr 2014 03:22:22 +0200 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I listened to bass01.wav and fox02.wav, for my taste the produced > "music" is strange. I looked at the wc files of those wav files. Is > there an explanation of the "near english synth definition > psuedo-language"? What is it good for? I guess I'm missing something. I haven't updated the sourceforge website for years and haven't had time to. There's some very outdated help and explanations there - but a lot has changed. There's also the command line help just run `./wcnt --help` for an overview. `wcnt -mh` (module help) will give a list of modules, add -v to it to show the same list with an additional short description of each. `wcnt -mh adder` will show help for the adder module. Again, -v will give short information about the inputs and parameters. I've design the output provided for the module (and data-object) help to be copy-and-pasted into a text file - with hopefully obvious changes for the user to make. The verbose module help can get very confusing unfortunately. A case in point is for the adsr which is designed to have a (multi-staged) upper and lower shape which can be modulated by velocity or whatever. This is where the flexibility I mentioned comes into play. It allows you to specify a single shape to save time/typing/verbosity (as well as omit parameters and inputs where not needed). It still looks a bit messy, and you definitely want a lot of terminal real-estate to display it. Multi-choice items are shown with a (Cn) after them, where n is the number of the choice. Mostly a case of choosing one or the other choices. A choice can have multiple items. Group items are shown with a (Gn), where n is simply to seperate one group from another where they follow on from one another. You must either ommit _all_ items in a group or specify all. Optional items are marked (o), and mandatory items marked (*). The adsr can be as simple as: adsr aeg1 envelope section name attack time 15.0 level 1.0 section name decay time 35.0 level 0.8 section name release time 25.0 level 0.0 envelope in_note_on_trig seq1 out_note_on_trig zero_retrigger off sustain_state on in_note_off_trig seq1 out_note_off_trig aeg1 But it might take a while to get that from the verbose module help, and the non-verbose module help doesn't give any indication of that at all. The adsr is one of the more complex modules however. James. From simonzwise at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 09:56:49 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 19:56:49 +1000 Subject: [LAU] Music Editors for Blind Users? In-Reply-To: <20140408092211.GC17953@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140407185703.GA8185@concerto.rednote.net> <20140407203250.GC558@linuxaudio.org> <53432B5D.40305@gmail.com> <5343BD0C.8030406@gmail.com> <20140408092211.GC17953@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <5343C7E1.1080102@gmail.com> On 08/04/14 19:22, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 08, 2014 at 07:10:36PM +1000, Simon Wise wrote: > >> no more than the sound does, you can hear what's playing just as >> easily ... it is not easier to know which light needs tweaking on a >> stage than which instrument in a mix, and no more obvious which >> channel to adjust from the look than which channel to adjust from >> the sound. > > Based on my very limited experience in controlling lights I'd > say it's even more difficult. If what you see is the combined > effect of many lights it's not obvious at all what is the > contribution of each individual one. just as with a sound rig ... if you have selected, placed and focussed them carefully in the first place, if you have in mind how you built the scene, if you have planned the kinds of presets you have recorded, and if you have done it many times before, and know what each instrument could do and what light looks like on a body or in a space ... then you can see what is going on, and know what needs changing. Otherwise it is very difficult. I started with sound, but for many years did a lot more lighting than sound. Simon From czhenry at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 20:58:42 2014 From: czhenry at gmail.com (Charles Z Henry) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 15:58:42 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: <55067.86.107.254.57.1396940394.squirrel@boosthardware.com> References: <20140408014438.4e7c13af@stax> <55067.86.107.254.57.1396940394.squirrel@boosthardware.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 1:59 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > > On Tue, April 8, 2014 3:44 pm, Chris Metzler wrote: >> >> In the past, I've sorta DIY'd my home machines -- sorta because it's >> been more integration than building. Most of the parts would come from >> some vendor like Newegg; but the processor+cooling/motherboard/memory >> would come from the now long-departed Monarch Computer. The part of >> building that scared me was doing a good job coupling the heatsink to >> the processor; Monarch sold processor/motherboard combos where they'd >> taken care of that, and tested the combo to make sure it was happy >> before sending it to you. Don't worry too much. Attaching the CPU and heatsink is not difficult and poses no serious risks. Use only an amount of thermal grease about the size of a grain of cooked rice and don't spread. > If you want a well supported board then you should probably stay away from > AMD. They are getting worse not better. But if you do choose AMD the > fusion chips offer reasonable performance vs cost/power consumption. Just > don't expect any real support from AMD. Even the open source drivers are > developed by NVidia devs in their spare time. I've been curious about building an AMD APU system. For those who don't know about the recently released APU's: AMD's Kaveri line features a shared memory architecture for CPU and GPU, which eliminates data transfer (and the need for code that explicitly pins memory for the GPU). It's a very interesting step forward for General Purpose Graphical Processing Unit (GPGPU) computing using OpenCL, as it eliminates the single biggest bottleneck for GPGPU. Only the first two Kaveri chips have been released so far, and the benchmarks have been underwhelming. Still, keep an eye out. The OpenCL libraries are provided by AMD with their proprietary driver--this is always the case, as OpenCL is an open standard, not an open source project. From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Apr 8 21:34:36 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 14:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: <20140408014438.4e7c13af@stax> References: <20140408014438.4e7c13af@stax> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2014, Chris Metzler wrote: > So, I'm looking to find out about hardware vendors. Specifically, I > want to know about: > > 1. folks selling fully-built machines with Linux in mind, so that > there'll be no real worries about any hardware compatibility issues; > > 2. folks selling motherboard/processor combos that they test before > shipping to the customer, like Monarch did back when they were still > around and reliable. > > In case it matters, I tend to go for as souped-up a home machine as I > can, and then ride it for a long time. The machine I end up with will > be used for Linux audio, with an Audiofire 8 interface that'll connect > to the machine by Firewire. So obviously it's going to need to have low > latencies in mind. It'll also get used for gaming, and for code > development for scientific computing. I dunno whether it's even an > option anymore, but having one legacy PCI slot around would be nice, > but isn't a dealbreaker if that's just too obsolete. I am certainly not an expert, but I have learned a few things and tend to build all my machines rather than buy. The first thing to point out is that gaming and low latency are two very different needs. Gaming is well supported, but low latency is not (in any OS). When looking at a cpu for low latency, the cheaper cpu with no hyperthreading will give better low latency all else being equal. Most all in one cpu/gpu/etc chips are not good for low latency (unless something new is any better) because these kind of cpus the extra stuff on the chip steals time from the cpu outside of the OS knowledge/control. I can't remember where right now, but there is a real time site that has latency results for a lot of mother board cpu combinations, I think I actually got it from someone on this list. PCI slots seem to have become a problem, they seem to be PCIe bridged slots on most new MB. A flexable BIOS can be very helpful for getting good low latency performance. Expect to run your CPU at a lower speed than full for audio work. This can be set on the fly so speed can be ondemand for gaming and set to 70-80% full speed for audio. Many people just set performance mode for audio, but this may make things too hot and the cpu temp sensor may change the cpu speed on you in the middle of your best take giving a glitch. I have found that even running my MB at half speed I get better latency/no xruns as compaired to the faster ondemand setting. The main thing is to force a single speed for audio while not creating too much heat. The MB/CPU manufactures seem to have learned a lot from the overclocking crowd and most new MB effectively over clock all the time and regulate the speed by temperature. We don't want to do that for audio. Intel GPUs are open but nvidia seem to perform better and Linux drivers are available. The choice here is how close you want to stick to all open SW. I have not heard anything to recomend AMD GPUs and so I have no experience with them either. The intel video on the atom boards are not open and poorly supported, but I didn't think you were buying one of these anyway even though their low latency performance is quite good. (can be anyway) Firewire ports don't come on MB that I have seen, Make sure you can get an interface that will fit whatever MB you want to use. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From lau at dadacafe.org Tue Apr 8 21:59:35 2014 From: lau at dadacafe.org (Tilo Kremer) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 23:59:35 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: References: <20140408014438.4e7c13af@stax> <55067.86.107.254.57.1396940394.squirrel@boosthardware.com> Message-ID: <53447147.60505@dadacafe.org> Hello, On 04/08/2014 10:58 PM, Charles Z Henry wrote: > > Don't worry too much. Attaching the CPU and heatsink is not difficult > and poses no serious risks. Use only an amount of thermal grease > about the size of a grain of cooked rice and don't spread. unless ingested. If the thermal grease contains beryllium oxide keep in mind that it is toxic. hth, tee From djdualcore at gmail.com Tue Apr 8 23:00:27 2014 From: djdualcore at gmail.com (Neil) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 18:00:27 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: References: <20140408014438.4e7c13af@stax> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 8, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > I have not heard anything to recomend AMD GPUs and so I have no experience > with them either. My daily driver is a six-month-old AMD based HP laptop. I regret it every day. Driver support (both Free and proprietary) for this chipset (Richland series) stinks. Last time I tried a newer driver than the one in Mint repository I had to reinstall the OS. Neil -- DJ Dual Core's Blog http://oldmixtapes.blogspot.com/ Order without government; Peace without violence. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kevinc at cosgroves.us Wed Apr 9 00:30:33 2014 From: kevinc at cosgroves.us (Kevin Cosgrove) Date: Tue, 08 Apr 2014 17:30:33 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> > On Tue, 8 Apr 2014, Chris Metzler wrote: > > So, I'm looking to find out about hardware vendors. Specifically, I > > want to know about: > > > > 1. folks selling fully-built machines with Linux in mind, so that > > there'll be no real worries about any hardware compatibility issues; Almost 2 yrs ago I got a custom configured machine from http://www.endpcnoise.com/ that's been running very nicely. They installed Ubuntu on it. -- Kevin From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Apr 9 01:43:08 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 2014 18:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Apr 2014, Kevin Cosgrove wrote: >> On Tue, 8 Apr 2014, Chris Metzler wrote: >>> So, I'm looking to find out about hardware vendors. Specifically, I >>> want to know about: >>> >>> 1. folks selling fully-built machines with Linux in mind, so that >>> there'll be no real worries about any hardware compatibility issues; > > Almost 2 yrs ago I got a custom configured machine from > http://www.endpcnoise.com/ that's been running very nicely. > They installed Ubuntu on it. Those all look nice. Which video card did you use? They look to sell all ATI video cards and don't mention what the "onboard video" interface is. How well does it (the video) work with Linux? Video is something I am trying to grasp as to what my needs are. The reality is that I don't need huge video performance. I don't do gaming, I do browsing and music. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From pshirkey at boosthardware.com Wed Apr 9 08:22:25 2014 From: pshirkey at boosthardware.com (Patrick Shirkey) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 18:22:25 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: <55149.86.107.254.57.1397031745.squirrel@boosthardware.com> On Wed, April 9, 2014 11:43 am, Len Ovens wrote: > On Tue, 8 Apr 2014, Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > >>> On Tue, 8 Apr 2014, Chris Metzler wrote: >>>> So, I'm looking to find out about hardware vendors. Specifically, I >>>> want to know about: >>>> >>>> 1. folks selling fully-built machines with Linux in mind, so that >>>> there'll be no real worries about any hardware compatibility issues; >> >> Almost 2 yrs ago I got a custom configured machine from >> http://www.endpcnoise.com/ that's been running very nicely. >> They installed Ubuntu on it. > > Those all look nice. Which video card did you use? They look to sell all > ATI video cards and don't mention what the "onboard video" interface is. > How well does it (the video) work with Linux? > > Video is something I am trying to grasp as to what my needs are. The > reality is that I don't need huge video performance. I don't do gaming, I > do browsing and music. > If you don't want the extra power of the cuda cores on a dedicated highend GPU from NVidia or ATI which can give impressive performance gains for doing things like transcoding then you can live very comfortably with a more energy conscious intel gpu onboard and the open source drivers. I can run 1080p with most of the opengl API supported with an onboard hd4000 equivalent https://01.org/linuxgraphics/ - Also make sure to check if the BIOS supports so called "legacy BIOS" unless you are comfortable having to add a fat32 partition to install the UEFI rootkit and spyware on your machine to give the NSA direct access to your backdoor. Some people care about that kind of thing. -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd From listac at nebelschwaden.de Wed Apr 9 09:57:34 2014 From: listac at nebelschwaden.de (Ede Wolf) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2014 11:57:34 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: References: <20140408014438.4e7c13af@stax> Message-ID: <5345198E.8020701@nebelschwaden.de> > Expect to run your CPU at a lower speed than full for audio work. This > can be set on the fly so speed can be ondemand for gaming and set to > 70-80% full speed for audio. Many people just set performance mode for > audio, but this may make things too hot and the cpu temp sensor may > change the cpu speed on you in the middle of your best take giving a > glitch. This is interesting, as the kernel help for the performance governor states: "This cpufreq governor sets the frequency statically to the highest available CPU frequency." Who or what process may still downscale the freq? Or is it CPU internal? And in latter case may that be an indicator that your cooling isn't sufficient? From unaudio at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 12:02:49 2014 From: unaudio at gmail.com (Vytautas Jancauskas) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 15:02:49 +0300 Subject: [LAU] A port of Obxd to Linux Message-ID: I have ported Obxd ( http://www.kvraudio.com/product/obxd---virtual-analog-synthesizer-by-datsounds) to Linux, I will release proper binaries for x86 and amd64 later but if you are very eager you can get it here https://github.com/orbitfold/Obxd and compile by going to Builds/Linux and running make CONFIG=Release then copy the .so from Builds/Linux/build to your vst folder. It's a pretty fucking sweet synth although very inefficient, but maybe we can do something about that. -- "Cheshire-Puss," she began, "would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?" "That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat. "I don't care much where--" said Alice. "Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Apr 9 13:08:55 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 06:08:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: <5345198E.8020701@nebelschwaden.de> References: <20140408014438.4e7c13af@stax> <5345198E.8020701@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Apr 2014, Ede Wolf wrote: > This is interesting, as the kernel help for the performance governor states: > > "This cpufreq governor sets the frequency statically to the highest > available CPU frequency." Yup, setting the governor to "performance" sets it to full speed. > Who or what process may still downscale the freq? Or is it CPU internal? And CPU/MB chipset internal. > in latter case may that be an indicator that your cooling isn't sufficient? That is correct too. Those who run portable applications on a lap top are the most likely to run into this. The hardware is just not designed to run full out all the time. The lap top is also more sensitive to dust for this reason. A desktop machine needs to be kept clean as well. GPUs are actually worse. There are lots of "fix you lap top by remelting the solder on the GPU" tutorials out there. The gpu can run hot enough to melt the solder connecting it to the MB. I don't know how much of a problem that is for audio work where the GPU is not so busy as a game that is doing whole screen updates/calculations all the time. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From listac at nebelschwaden.de Wed Apr 9 13:52:12 2014 From: listac at nebelschwaden.de (Ede Wolf) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2014 15:52:12 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: References: <20140408014438.4e7c13af@stax> <5345198E.8020701@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: <5345508C.4030007@nebelschwaden.de> Thanks for clearing this up. Until know I was under the impression, that performance would keep the frequency stable even if the cooler itself changes it aggregation state to liquid. Will watch out for this, good to know. Am 09.04.2014 15:08, schrieb Len Ovens: > > On Wed, 9 Apr 2014, Ede Wolf wrote: > >> This is interesting, as the kernel help for the performance governor >> states: >> >> "This cpufreq governor sets the frequency statically to the highest >> available CPU frequency." > > Yup, setting the governor to "performance" sets it to full speed. > >> Who or what process may still downscale the freq? Or is it CPU >> internal? And > > CPU/MB chipset internal. > >> in latter case may that be an indicator that your cooling isn't >> sufficient? > > That is correct too. Those who run portable applications on a lap top > are the most likely to run into this. The hardware is just not designed > to run full out all the time. The lap top is also more sensitive to dust > for this reason. A desktop machine needs to be kept clean as well. > > GPUs are actually worse. There are lots of "fix you lap top by remelting > the solder on the GPU" tutorials out there. The gpu can run hot enough > to melt the solder connecting it to the MB. I don't know how much of a > problem that is for audio work where the GPU is not so busy as a game > that is doing whole screen updates/calculations all the time. > > -- > Len Ovens > www.ovenwerks.net > > From luke.hart at birchleys.eu Wed Apr 9 14:41:06 2014 From: luke.hart at birchleys.eu (Luke Hart) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2014 15:41:06 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: References: <20140408014438.4e7c13af@stax> <5345198E.8020701@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: <53455C02.9050907@birchleys.eu> On 09/04/2014 14:08, Len Ovens wrote: > > On Wed, 9 Apr 2014, Ede Wolf wrote: > >> This is interesting, as the kernel help for the performance governor >> states: >> >> "This cpufreq governor sets the frequency statically to the highest >> available CPU frequency." > > Yup, setting the governor to "performance" sets it to full speed. > >> Who or what process may still downscale the freq? Or is it CPU >> internal? And > > CPU/MB chipset internal. > >> in latter case may that be an indicator that your cooling isn't >> sufficient? > > That is correct too. Those who run portable applications on a lap top > are the most likely to run into this. The hardware is just not > designed to run full out all the time. The lap top is also more > sensitive to dust for this reason. A desktop machine needs to be kept > clean as well. Just because the CPU is running at full speed doesn't mean it is generating the maximum amount of heat. If there's nothing for the processor to do (no user task or housekeeping) linux will execute the HLT instruction that puts the processor to sleep until the next interrupt. So heat may not be an issue unless you are running lots of audio processing. Of course the i[357] processors will change the clock speed in response to a wider range of factors, including workload, no. of active cores, current and power consumption (Turbo boost, http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/turbo-boost/turbo-boost-technology.html). Luke From kevinc at cosgroves.us Wed Apr 9 15:18:41 2014 From: kevinc at cosgroves.us (Kevin Cosgrove) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2014 08:18:41 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20140409151841.19AC5BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> On 8 April 2014 at 18:43, Len Ovens wrote: > On Tue, 8 Apr 2014, Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > > >> On Tue, 8 Apr 2014, Chris Metzler wrote: > >>> So, I'm looking to find out about hardware vendors. Specifically, I > >>> want to know about: > >>> > >>> 1. folks selling fully-built machines with Linux in mind, so that > >>> there'll be no real worries about any hardware compatibility issues; > > > > Almost 2 yrs ago I got a custom configured machine from > > http://www.endpcnoise.com/ that's been running very nicely. > > They installed Ubuntu on it. > > Those all look nice. Which video card did you use? They look to sell all > ATI video cards and don't mention what the "onboard video" interface is. > How well does it (the video) work with Linux? > > Video is something I am trying to grasp as to what my needs are. The > reality is that I don't need huge video performance. I don't do gaming, I > do browsing and music. I got an inexpensive nVidia card, one without a fan so that it would be silent. I don't do gaming. I do watch videos. I do run with two monitors. It's been a fine card. -- Kevin From falktx at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 15:47:35 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2014 16:47:35 +0100 Subject: [LAU] A port of Obxd to Linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53456B97.3050907@gmail.com> On 04/09/2014 01:02 PM, Vytautas Jancauskas wrote: > I have ported Obxd > (http://www.kvraudio.com/product/obxd---virtual-analog-synthesizer-by-datsounds) > to Linux, I will release proper binaries for x86 and amd64 later but > if you are very eager you can get it here > https://github.com/orbitfold/Obxd and compile by going to Builds/Linux > and running make CONFIG=Release then copy the .so from > Builds/Linux/build to your vst folder. It's a pretty fucking sweet > synth although very inefficient, but maybe we can do something about that. I (kinda) already did that. I took the obxd source and put it in a distrho-like source package, which makes it easy to build and provides LV2 versions. see https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-debian/+archive/plugins/+sourcepub/4042841/+listing-archive-extra From unaudio at gmail.com Wed Apr 9 15:56:05 2014 From: unaudio at gmail.com (Vytautas Jancauskas) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 18:56:05 +0300 Subject: [LAU] A port of Obxd to Linux In-Reply-To: <53456B97.3050907@gmail.com> References: <53456B97.3050907@gmail.com> Message-ID: I see. It does need profiling and optimization though. Because as is it consumes ridiculous amounts of CPU. On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Filipe Coelho wrote: > On 04/09/2014 01:02 PM, Vytautas Jancauskas wrote: > >> I have ported Obxd (http://www.kvraudio.com/ >> product/obxd---virtual-analog-synthesizer-by-datsounds) to Linux, I will >> release proper binaries for x86 and amd64 later but if you are very eager >> you can get it here https://github.com/orbitfold/Obxd and compile by >> going to Builds/Linux and running make CONFIG=Release then copy the .so >> from Builds/Linux/build to your vst folder. It's a pretty fucking sweet >> synth although very inefficient, but maybe we can do something about that. >> > > I (kinda) already did that. > > I took the obxd source and put it in a distrho-like source package, which > makes it easy to build and provides LV2 versions. > see https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-debian/+archive/ > plugins/+sourcepub/4042841/+listing-archive-extra > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -- "Cheshire-Puss," she began, "would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?" "That depends a good deal on where you want to get to," said the Cat. "I don't care much where--" said Alice. "Then it doesn't matter which way you go," said the Cat. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Apr 9 21:47:53 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2014 14:47:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Advice needed: hardware vendors In-Reply-To: <53455C02.9050907@birchleys.eu> References: <20140408014438.4e7c13af@stax> <5345198E.8020701@nebelschwaden.de> <53455C02.9050907@birchleys.eu> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Apr 2014, Luke Hart wrote: >> That is correct too. Those who run portable applications on a lap top are >> the most likely to run into this. The hardware is just not designed to run >> full out all the time. The lap top is also more sensitive to dust for this >> reason. A desktop machine needs to be kept clean as well. > Just because the CPU is running at full speed doesn't mean it is generating > the maximum amount of heat. If there's nothing for the processor to do (no > user task or housekeeping) linux will execute the HLT instruction that puts > the processor to sleep until the next interrupt. So heat may not be an issue > unless you are running lots of audio processing. Yup. I have not had this problem myself, but I generally record audio only with no soft synths. My low cpu usage should be obvious when I can get good low latency on an atom netbook running half speed at 800Mhz :) But I have run at full speed for long periods of time with no problem too. > Of course the i[357] > processors will change the clock speed in response to a wider range of > factors, including workload, no. of active cores, current and power > consumption (Turbo boost, > http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/turbo-boost/turbo-boost-technology.html). That action appears to be switchable. The page says the speed will only over clock if the OS asks for more than the non-boosted speed. Some of intel's MB will let you turn off the speed switching for heat too (the xeon server boards) but you void the warranty :) Having a flexable Bios is helpful. Using this kind of boost technology is probably not what we want for audio processing. Speed changes are very fast and should not be noticed by the OS or affect latency (even ondemand should be ok) yet I and others have noticed xruns that go away on a solid speed even if that speed is slower. Fast CPUs do not mean good low latency. in fact there seems to be a move away from known latency towards greatest throughput at any cost. Often part of that cost is in latency bumps. There are some low latency technologies out there, but they are not geared towards audio, but rather stock market servers and therefore network access. Looking at the intel low latency products (xeon e5 and e7) there are some things that look useful to the audio world if there is an audio interface that can make use of it. For example the ability to take incoming data directly to the cpu cache rather than to system memory first. Boost speed is still used in this low latency environment too... This leads me to wonder if the xrun at speed switch is not something that could be fixed with a better audio (or other) driver. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From ico at vt.edu Fri Apr 11 21:19:57 2014 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2014 17:19:57 -0400 Subject: [LAU] is Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 supported in Linux? Message-ID: <000c01cf55cb$caba9020$602fb060$@vt.edu> All, I guess the subject says it all. Anyone had any luck using it? -- Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. Associate Professor Composition, Music Technology Director, DISIS Interactive Sound & Intermedia Studio Director, L2Ork Linux Laptop Orchestra Head, ICAT IMPACT Studio Virginia Tech School of Performing Arts - 0141 Blacksburg, VA 24061 (540) 231-6139 (540) 231-5034 (fax) ico at vt.edu http://disis.music.vt.edu http://l2ork.music.vt.edu From ico at vt.edu Fri Apr 11 21:21:12 2014 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Ico Bukvic) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2014 17:21:12 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Anyone has any experience using Presonus 1818VSL Audiobox? Message-ID: <000d01cf55cb$f775d390$e6617ab0$@vt.edu> If so, any feedback on its quality/durability/Linux support would be most appreciated. Many thanks! ico From robin at gareus.org Fri Apr 11 22:19:10 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2014 00:19:10 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Anyone has any experience using Presonus 1818VSL Audiobox? In-Reply-To: <000d01cf55cb$f775d390$e6617ab0$@vt.edu> References: <000d01cf55cb$f775d390$e6617ab0$@vt.edu> Message-ID: <53486A5E.5070004@gareus.org> On 04/11/2014 11:21 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > If so, any feedback on its quality/durability/Linux support would be most > appreciated. > > Many thanks! > > ico > Ico, Please search the list archive. It's a recurring question. Also see http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/hardware_support#presonus_-_1818vsl_usb2 tldr: it works very well under Linux, it's durable (runs here since > 2 years almost continuously powered on) and it has a sturdy metal body. Quality wise its preamps beat the ones from the UA-25 and Scarlett 18i6 by a margin of a few dBs of noise-floor (measured with jnoisemeter, 200Ohm termination), but let me get back to you with precise numbers after Fons' measurement workshop at the LAC. The analog gain dials of the 1818VSL do latch and there's no drift. ciao, robin From ico at vt.edu Fri Apr 11 23:11:15 2014 From: ico at vt.edu (Ivica Bukvic) Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2014 19:11:15 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Anyone has any experience using Presonus 1818VSL Audiobox? In-Reply-To: <53486A5E.5070004@gareus.org> References: <000d01cf55cb$f775d390$e6617ab0$@vt.edu> <53486A5E.5070004@gareus.org> Message-ID: Cool! Many thanks! On Apr 11, 2014 6:19 PM, "Robin Gareus" wrote: > > On 04/11/2014 11:21 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > If so, any feedback on its quality/durability/Linux support would be most > > appreciated. > > > > Many thanks! > > > > ico > > > Ico, > > Please search the list archive. It's a recurring question. Also see > http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/hardware_support#presonus_-_1818vsl_usb2 > > tldr: it works very well under Linux, it's durable (runs here since > 2 > years almost continuously powered on) and it has a sturdy metal body. > > Quality wise its preamps beat the ones from the UA-25 and Scarlett 18i6 > by a margin of a few dBs of noise-floor (measured with jnoisemeter, > 200Ohm termination), but let me get back to you with precise numbers > after Fons' measurement workshop at the LAC. The analog gain dials of > the 1818VSL do latch and there's no drift. > > ciao, > robin > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joelz at pobox.com Sat Apr 12 21:29:46 2014 From: joelz at pobox.com (Joel Roth) Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2014 11:29:46 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Announcing Nama release v1.113 - "Claassen's Crucible" Message-ID: <20140412212946.GA22557@sprite> Nama is a multitrack recording application based on Kai Vehmanen's Ecasound with text and graphic interfaces. It can work with ALSA or JACK. Although many Nama users end up building from github,[1] this release to CPAN[2] allows prospective users to install it with a simple incantation[3]. We're naming this release to honor our brother Julien,[4] whose tireless testing, bug reports, feature requests and documentation-writing have helped make Nama what it is today. :-) I'd also like to shout a thanks to newer users who've contributed, especially Rapha?l Mouneyres, who suggested improvements to the track record/play settings and text-mode display, along with many reports and suggestions. The following are recent features, new and improved: ## Hyphens in Commands Nama now accepts hyphens in command names: Both "find_effect" and "find-effect" are acceptable (in addition to the usual shortcut "fe".) ## Hot keys The hotkey mode supports arbitrary bindings. The default mapping provides for changing the selected track, effect, parameter, stepsize and increment/decrement. You switch from command mode to hotkey mode with "#" and back to command mode with ESC. ## Sequences Sequences have been implemented as a special type of bus that plays its member clips (tracks) one after another, and allows for spacing or overlap between clips. ## Submixes These can be used to provide each musician with her own mix for live monitoring, and can use either the raw track source or the effects-processed track output. ## Track Modes Track modes have been revised to REC/MON/PLAY/OFF, set by the corresponding commands (in lower case). Note that "off" (do not route track audio streams) is distinct from "mute" (silence track audio output.) MON: + use track source setting as track input REC: + use track source setting as track input + record audio file to disk PLAY: + use audio file from disk as track input OFF: + do not route track audio I/O By default, REC, PLAY and MON settings route track audio output for monitoring. ## Improved Track Listing The example below shows a simple setup for recording two audio files: sax_1.wav and synth_1.wav. The signals are routed to the Main bus (the default), which outputs to soundcard channels 1/2. All files recorded in the same take get the same version number. No. Name Status Source Destination Vol Pan ========================================================================= 1 Master MON Main bus 1/2 0 50 2 Mixdown OFF -- -- -- -- 3 sax REC v1 1 Main 0 50 4 synth REC v1 bristol Main 0 50 ## Project management using Git Each project has a git repository in which Nama stores the entire project history.[5] Nama automatically promotes each named snapshot into a branch. This allows users to follow multiple approaches to a project and return to any previous version. Within each project we use a save / get pattern similar to managing project state as files or snapshots. Users benefit from version control technology without having to study git or learn special commands. ## GUI Amazingly, the plain-jane Tk GUI still works, providing functions of a basic harddisk recorder. Since all diagnostics appear on the terminal (which is also available for commands), the user is never slowed down by having to close an information window or dialog box. ## MIDI Nama provides rudimentary MIDI support via Midish, starting a Midish process when configured with midish_enable: 1 in .namarc. Midish commands can be issued at any time. For convenience, Nama issues a save-to-file command to Midish on exit. ## Preliminary OSC Support This is a thin wrapper that accepts Nama commands as OSC packets, and returns the results. ## Underlying Code There have been many improvements. Support for multiples engines has been added, which will in future allow for monitor outputs to be kept "live" continuously. (Currently Ecasound must be reconfigured when changing routes for playing or recording audio.) Effects code has been coverted to OO style, which is easier to read and will allow for a change in underlying data structure in future. Effects support was one of the first parts of Nama to be written and was the last still written in procedural style. ## Future Live monitoring support was mentioned above. Latency compensation is awaiting improvements the underlying JACK interface library.[6] MIDI tracks are planned. Thanks to the Linux audio community and Nama users for your support. Cheers, Joel 1. http://github.com/bolangi/nama 2. A distributed hosting system for perl libraries, and acronym for Comprehensive Perl Archive Network http://cpan.org Perl was/is a hotbed for testing culture. Modules I upload get built (smoke-tested) on many different architectures, and are provided a bug-tracking system. 3. cpanm Audio::Nama + Installs into $HOME/perl5 by default with no special permissions required + However, you may need to install cpanm (c.f. App::cpanminus) sudo cpan Audio::Nama + Installs under /usr/local/perl5 by default 4. http://juliencoder.de 5. All information relating to sound of the project except for the audio files is stored in the file State.json. Project data *not* under version control such as track or version comments, effect chains, and effect profiles is stored in Aux.json, which can be blown away without affecting the audio output. 6. https://github.com/navicore/Jacks -- Joel Roth, Nama Animator From rustompmody at gmail.com Sun Apr 13 13:13:57 2014 From: rustompmody at gmail.com (Rustom Mody) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 18:43:57 +0530 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396794650.1568.26.camel@archlinux> <53416A03.1020208@web.de> <1396806636.1568.43.camel@archlinux> <20140406202651.7d29ab05@Scrapyard.lan> Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 1:56 AM, James Morris wrote: > On Sun, 06 Apr 2014 19:50:36 +0200 > Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > Ok, don't care for productive criticism and keep opinions like > > classical music is the only music, or like Red Hot Chili Peppers and > > Metallica are Rock musicians. From that point of view Linux audio is > > perfect. _But_ some people aren't interested in producing classical > > music or Pseudo-Rock music, what should they/we do, when every hint > > they/we give is ignored and called snobbish? > > Your gibbering ramblings make me want to defend Justin Bieber. > > > Thank you for reading and hopefully not ignoring the content, > > Ralf > > Anyone know of an Android email client that can send Ralf's posts to > the bin just like Claws-Mail does? > I believe that Ralf has given me good answers to some linux-related questions (JFTR) Music-wise I guess there's not too much overlap in our choices -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From victor at svictor.net Sun Apr 13 16:00:42 2014 From: victor at svictor.net (Victor) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 18:00:42 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: OT In-Reply-To: <1396811403.1568.51.camel@archlinux> References: <1396394886.592.60.camel@archlinux> <533BEC5D.5000509@gmail.com> <533BEE45.8070001@gmail.com> <20140404062623.GA14911@tal> <1396719596.591.21.camel@archlinux> <20140406095738.GF11691@tal> <1396790907.1568.10.camel@archlinux> <53415DAB.6000709@billgribble.com> <1396811403.1568.51.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <534AB4AA.2070901@svictor.net> On 06/04/14 21:10, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I know it's OT, but perhaps the people who post the links to their music > made with Linux on this list and those who comment those music, want to > listen to old school Rock music and learn a little bit from it too. True that! I didn't know about Radio Birdman (possibly cauze I'm 10 years younger :-) It was a nice discovery for today! There's a feeling of "clever independence" in that music, which is not so far from the values I'd associate with free software. So not completely OT from my point of view. Thanks for sharing! Victor From abonnements at revolwear.com Sun Apr 13 16:26:57 2014 From: abonnements at revolwear.com (Max) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 01:26:57 +0900 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack Message-ID: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm running PulseAudio on top of Jack and I'm satisfied with the experience http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/WalkThrough/User/PulseOnJack One exception is that i need to restart PulseAudio (pulseaudio -k) and the application using it (for ex. Chromium or Firefox) after every suspend. Is there a way to solve this little annoyance? m. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlNKutEACgkQ3EB7kzgMM6IOxACghhcVBhU7l0hW2IeyMse8Wq03 itgAn3E20JTwz9WPO7goBqbL5IYEJx+f =7oMq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 13 16:46:59 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 18:46:59 +0200 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> Message-ID: <1397407619.609.68.camel@archlinux> On Mon, 2014-04-14 at 01:26 +0900, Max wrote: > I'm running PulseAudio on top of Jack and I'm satisfied with the > experience > http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/WalkThrough/User/PulseOnJack > One exception is that i need to restart PulseAudio (pulseaudio -k) and > the application using it (for ex. Chromium or Firefox) after every > suspend. Is there a way to solve this little annoyance? AFAIK jack can't be used if you suspend/hibernate. I might be mistaken. IMO you anyway should get rid of PA, resp. decide to use PA or jack, depending too your needs. I can't see an advantage in using both at the same time. http://jackaudio.org/routing_flash http://jackaudio.org/gstreamer_via_jack etc. pp. http://jackaudio.org/faq I don't care about it, when using a browser I don't make audio productions and when making audio productions, I don't use a browser, so I simply use jack for audio productions and ALSA when surfing. From harryhaaren at gmail.com Sun Apr 13 16:55:42 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 17:55:42 +0100 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> Message-ID: (Auto-)Run a script after resume for suspend, little bit of ps / bash magic to restore browsers if it was running? Removing PA as Ralf suggests is not the route I advise: it requires a lot of changes to get rid of PA (and package manager headaches).. Hath, -Harry PS sent from a phone, excuse typos and no-quote reply.. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 13 17:05:37 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 19:05:37 +0200 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> Message-ID: <1397408737.609.78.camel@archlinux> On Sun, 2014-04-13 at 17:55 +0100, Harry van Haaren wrote: > Removing PA as Ralf suggests is not the route I advise: it requires a > lot of changes to get rid of PA (and package manager headaches).. Yesno, it depends to the used WM/DE. I even don't use Xfce anymore, but switched to JWM. However, AFAIK even Xfce doesn't come with hard dependencies to PA, AFAIK just bloated DEs like GNOME ship with unneeded dependencies like a hard dependency to PA. From grib at billgribble.com Sun Apr 13 17:07:07 2014 From: grib at billgribble.com (Bill Gribble) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 13:07:07 -0400 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: <1397407619.609.68.camel@archlinux> References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> <1397407619.609.68.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <5FEE1117-A2D0-4545-8257-32F664CC2B93@billgribble.com> > On Apr 13, 2014, at 12:46, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > AFAIK jack can't be used if you suspend/hibernate. I might be mistaken. You're mistaken :) I have had some problems with FireWire and suspend in the past, but lately no trouble with builtin or usb audio. Haven't really used FW in 6-8 months so it may be better too. > > IMO you anyway should get rid of PA, resp. decide to use PA or jack, > depending too your needs. I can't see an advantage in using both at the > same time. It can be pretty convenient to have both working when you want to play some files for reference using whatever music player you want, or some random desktop AV stuff, or open music in a browser without worrying about Jack support in apps or a fragile pipeline like the gstreamer jack endpoints. Or record a screencast, where you are screencasting audio-producing apps, using an external mic for narration and recording the audio into Ardour. I think of the split as "I let pulse manage desktop audio, Jack does the real work." Thanks, Bill Gribble From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Sun Apr 13 17:43:12 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 07:43:12 -1000 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: <1397408737.609.78.camel@archlinux> References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> <1397408737.609.78.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <534ACCB0.5020701@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/13/2014 07:05 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 2014-04-13 at 17:55 +0100, Harry van Haaren wrote: >> Removing PA as Ralf suggests is not the route I advise: it requires a >> lot of changes to get rid of PA (and package manager headaches).. > > Yesno, it depends to the used WM/DE. I even don't use Xfce anymore, but > switched to JWM. However, AFAIK even Xfce doesn't come with hard > dependencies to PA, AFAIK just bloated DEs like GNOME ship with unneeded > dependencies like a hard dependency to PA. And KDE. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 13 17:43:15 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 19:43:15 +0200 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: <5FEE1117-A2D0-4545-8257-32F664CC2B93@billgribble.com> References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> <1397407619.609.68.camel@archlinux> <5FEE1117-A2D0-4545-8257-32F664CC2B93@billgribble.com> Message-ID: <1397410995.609.83.camel@archlinux> On Sun, 2014-04-13 at 13:07 -0400, Bill Gribble wrote: > > IMO you anyway should get rid of PA, resp. decide to use PA or jack, > > depending too your needs. I can't see an advantage in using both at > > the same time. > > It can be pretty convenient to have both working when you want to > [...] Perhaps, but there might be alternative solutions available too. Regards, Ralf PS regarding to the "package manager headaches" Harry mentioned: At least building dummy packages for Debian, *buntus and Arch isn't rocket science. I'm willing to help to build dummy packages for this distros and likely other members from this list can help to build dummy packages for other distros, or e.g. help to disable PA. From silvain at freeshell.de Sun Apr 13 18:14:27 2014 From: silvain at freeshell.de (F. Silvain) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 20:14:27 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] Announcing Nama release v1.113 - "Claassen's Crucible" In-Reply-To: <20140412212946.GA22557@sprite> References: <20140412212946.GA22557@sprite> Message-ID: <1404132012350.12845@freeshell.de> Hey Joel, this is wonderful news! I noticed the updates to the git repo and wondered, what all that was about. Thank you for the heads-up and the new release! Ta-ta ---- Ffanci * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain From len at ovenwerks.net Sun Apr 13 21:24:41 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 14:24:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Apr 2014, Max wrote: > I'm running PulseAudio on top of Jack and I'm satisfied with the > experience > http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/WalkThrough/User/PulseOnJack > One exception is that i need to restart PulseAudio (pulseaudio -k) and > the application using it (for ex. Chromium or Firefox) after every > suspend. Is there a way to solve this little annoyance? First thing is to make sure you have a current PA as there has been a lot of work on it in the past few years. Things that didn't work or not right in 2012 have been fixed and work now. [edit, this does not seem to be fixed lp:#1232295 is not closed] I don't personally know about suspend because I don't happen to need/use it. Once PA gets restarted though, I don't think there is much you can do about chromium/firefox although just reloading the page should bring it back because the pulse port is not opened by gstream until/unless the web page needs it. It should be the same with many other desktop apps (which is why PA-jack is so useful). Many of them shut the port just with a pause and certainly with a stop/play (but that would loose the place you were if part way through a movie). This page: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio#No_sound_after_resume_from_suspend Suggests that pulseaudio -k is not the best thing to do and that using pasuspender will not break running applications like the browser. The script on the same page will only work if you have systemd running the system... so not debian or derivatives (just yet). It sounds like jackdbus has made it through the suspend ok anyway. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From listac at nebelschwaden.de Sun Apr 13 21:53:03 2014 From: listac at nebelschwaden.de (Ede Wolf) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 23:53:03 +0200 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: <534ACCB0.5020701@hawaii.rr.com> References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> <1397408737.609.78.camel@archlinux> <534ACCB0.5020701@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <534B073F.3010505@nebelschwaden.de> > And KDE. > I am happily running KDE (and xfce on another machine) without pulseaudio even installed on any system. Neither any gstreamer stuff (not true for xfce, unfortunately) at all. Happy with alsa, jack and KDE - and I have not been missing anything the last years. So, as usual, bloat is likely to be a more distribution specific issue, with package maintainers having to try to please anyone and therefore enable each and every option instead of having a clear line or focus. Not sure for gnome though, others may comment here. From ivan_521521 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 13 21:56:23 2014 From: ivan_521521 at yahoo.com (Ivan K) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 14:56:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] OT? Downloaded youtube videos with subtitles Message-ID: <1397426183.88285.YahooMailNeo@web122602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> ? I was very excited to find a video of the complete Tristan and Isolde on YouTube recently, complete with English subtitles. I used the youtube-dl utility to grab the video, but when I began playing the copy on my hard-drive with totem, to my horror, the English subtitles were not there! To repeat, the subtitles are on youtube.com but not in the .webm file that I downloaded with youtube-dl. Can someone coach me how to download a version with the English subtitles? Or are there subtitles in my downloaded version and totem is just not playing them? Thank you for your help. P.S. On the totem menu under View, there is a command called Subtitles but this prompts me for another file. Is there a subtitle file in addition to the video file that I need to download from youtube? Thanks again. From david.jo.adler at gmail.com Sun Apr 13 22:34:51 2014 From: david.jo.adler at gmail.com (david.jo.adler) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 00:34:51 +0200 Subject: [LAU] OT? Downloaded youtube videos with subtitles In-Reply-To: <1397426183.88285.YahooMailNeo@web122602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1397426183.88285.YahooMailNeo@web122602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 4/13/14, Ivan K wrote: > > I was very excited to find a video of the complete > Tristan and Isolde on YouTube recently, complete with > English subtitles. > > I used the youtube-dl utility to grab the video, but > when I began playing the copy on my hard-drive with > totem, to my horror, the English subtitles were > not there! To repeat, the subtitles are on > youtube.com but not in the .webm file that I > downloaded with youtube-dl. > > Can someone coach me how to download a version > with the English subtitles? Take a look at 'youtube-dl --help' or 'man youtube-dl', specifically at the 'Subtitle Options' section. $ youtube-dl --list-subs $ youtube-dl --write-sub --sub-lang en The latter command will produce two files, the video and an .srt file containing the English subtitles. best, -d From ivan_521521 at yahoo.com Sun Apr 13 23:04:43 2014 From: ivan_521521 at yahoo.com (Ivan K) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 16:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] OT? Downloaded youtube videos with subtitles In-Reply-To: References: <1397426183.88285.YahooMailNeo@web122602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1397430283.83880.YahooMailNeo@web122604.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> That was the ticket.? Thanks! david.jo.adler wrote: > > Take a look at 'youtube-dl --help' or 'man youtube-dl', specifically > at the 'Subtitle Options' section. > > $ youtube-dl --list-subs > > $ youtube-dl --write-sub --sub-lang en > > The latter command will produce two files, the video and an .srt file > containing the English subtitles. From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Apr 14 01:06:46 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 18:06:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: Further to choosing mother boards and processors: There are current (released Q1 2014) CPUs in the Xeon and i5 (i5 has turbo) lines (atom too, for a good headless system - with 8 cores?) that come without Intel? Turbo Boost Technology or Intel? Hyper-Threading Technology. Better yet, they are cheaper too. I don't know how easy they are to come by though. See: http://ark.intel.com/search/advanced/?s=t&TBTVersion=No&HyperThreading=false So for an audio system start with the chip and find out what socket you need, then go looking for a matching MB. I don't know what the difference is between the i5 and xeon once the extras have been stripped off. But at least the chip price is pretty much dead even. The new atoms have an intel hd graphics proc for easier access to drivers than the older ones. The big problem with the atom is the MB tend to small with only one pci(e) slot. Both the atom and the xeon seem to be addressed towards server use and are know to have reasonable low latency performance. I too will be looking at updating my music computer (P4 single core 5 PCI slots, 2.5G ram, USB 2, etc, etc, but good latency). I would realy like to stay away from having to use a USB or FW audio IF. In fact I would like to be able to continue to use my delta 66 for as long as I can before I spend more money :) The list of PCIe audio IFs is pretty small and the music stores don't seem to want to stock them... I guess musicians don't know how to open a computer. The audio science ASI 554* boards are kind of expensive (8 i/o ~ $1000), but the same could be said for RME stuff... about the same price (by the time an adat box is added). The computer is going to be the cheap part in any case. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Apr 14 04:50:37 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 18:50:37 -1000 Subject: [LAU] OT? Downloaded youtube videos with subtitles In-Reply-To: <1397430283.83880.YahooMailNeo@web122604.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1397426183.88285.YahooMailNeo@web122602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1397430283.83880.YahooMailNeo@web122604.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <534B691D.6030305@hawaii.rr.com> And thank you both! I never new youtube-dl had that capability. On 04/13/2014 01:04 PM, Ivan K wrote: > That was the ticket. Thanks! > > david.jo.adler wrote: >> >> Take a look at 'youtube-dl --help' or 'man youtube-dl', specifically >> at the 'Subtitle Options' section. >> >> $ youtube-dl --list-subs >> >> $ youtube-dl --write-sub --sub-lang en >> >> The latter command will produce two files, the video and an .srt file >> containing the English subtitles. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Apr 14 05:31:34 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 19:31:34 -1000 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: <534B073F.3010505@nebelschwaden.de> References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> <1397408737.609.78.camel@archlinux> <534ACCB0.5020701@hawaii.rr.com> <534B073F.3010505@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: <534B72B6.3020300@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/13/2014 11:53 AM, Ede Wolf wrote: > >> And KDE. > > I am happily running KDE (and xfce on another machine) without > pulseaudio even installed on any system. Neither any gstreamer stuff > (not true for xfce, unfortunately) at all. Happy with alsa, jack and KDE > - and I have not been missing anything the last years. So, as usual, > bloat is likely to be a more distribution specific issue, with package > maintainers having to try to please anyone and therefore enable each and > every option instead of having a clear line or focus. Did you install KDE yourself, or was it part of the distro you used? I use XFCE, it has no dependencies on Pulse. I have Pulse on one XFCE, IIRC, it was something some Gnome app depended on. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Apr 14 05:35:54 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2014 19:35:54 -1000 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> Message-ID: <534B73BA.8080104@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/13/2014 11:24 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > > On Mon, 14 Apr 2014, Max wrote: > >> I'm running PulseAudio on top of Jack and I'm satisfied with the >> experience >> http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/WalkThrough/User/PulseOnJack >> One exception is that i need to restart PulseAudio (pulseaudio -k) and >> the application using it (for ex. Chromium or Firefox) after every >> suspend. Is there a way to solve this little annoyance? > > First thing is to make sure you have a current PA as there has been a > lot of work on it in the past few years. Things that didn't work or not > right in 2012 have been fixed and work now. [edit, this does not seem to > be fixed lp:#1232295 is not closed] I don't personally know about > suspend because I don't happen to need/use it. Once PA gets restarted > though, I don't think there is much you can do about chromium/firefox > although just reloading the page should bring it back because the pulse > port is not opened by gstream until/unless the web page needs it. It > should be the same with many other desktop apps (which is why PA-jack is > so useful). Many of them shut the port just with a pause and certainly > with a stop/play (but that would loose the place you were if part way > through a movie). This page: > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio#No_sound_after_resume_from_suspend > > Suggests that pulseaudio -k is not the best thing to do and that using > pasuspender will not break running applications like the browser. The > script on the same page will only work if you have systemd running the > system... so not debian or derivatives (just yet). > > It sounds like jackdbus has made it through the suspend ok anyway. IIRC, older Firefox versions used to not let go of the audio system (if Flash was installed) until you closed Firefox. I have a friend who up to a few years ago had a script he ran (after closing Firefox) to kill the remaining Flash process that it would leave behind. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From listac at nebelschwaden.de Mon Apr 14 12:00:22 2014 From: listac at nebelschwaden.de (Ede Wolf) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 14:00:22 +0200 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: <534B72B6.3020300@hawaii.rr.com> References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> <1397408737.609.78.camel@archlinux> <534ACCB0.5020701@hawaii.rr.com> <534B073F.3010505@nebelschwaden.de> <534B72B6.3020300@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <534BCDD6.7060004@nebelschwaden.de> > Did you install KDE yourself, or was it part of the distro you used? > > I use XFCE, it has no dependencies on Pulse. > > I have Pulse on one XFCE, IIRC, it was something some Gnome app depended > on. Part of the distro, but source based (gentoo) for KDE; arch for the xfce box From kevinc at cosgroves.us Mon Apr 14 17:53:30 2014 From: kevinc at cosgroves.us (Kevin Cosgrove) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 10:53:30 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Mackie Control "Universal" vs. "Pro" Message-ID: <20140414175330.D6DE0BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Hello, I have an opportunity to buy a used Mackie Control Universal. Info at these links. http://www.mackie.com/products/mcu/mcu_support.html http://www.zzounds.com/item--MACCONTROLUNI But, I'm wondering if the non-Pro version, Mackie Control Universal will work as well with Ardour as the Pro version. Does anyone know? Ardour's manual says that the Pro version works well. My main reason for wanting the unit is my presumption that it has the ability for me to "touch" edit automation. This is something which my BCF2000 can't do. I've been scouring the web for documentation to tell me if it has this ability. But, so far I haven't found anything, not even in the MCU manual. Anyone know that as well? Thanks folks.... -- Kevin From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Apr 14 18:14:14 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 08:14:14 -1000 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: <534BCDD6.7060004@nebelschwaden.de> References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> <1397408737.609.78.camel@archlinux> <534ACCB0.5020701@hawaii.rr.com> <534B073F.3010505@nebelschwaden.de> <534B72B6.3020300@hawaii.rr.com> <534BCDD6.7060004@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: <534C2576.7020806@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/14/2014 02:00 AM, Ede Wolf wrote: > >> Did you install KDE yourself, or was it part of the distro you used? >> >> I use XFCE, it has no dependencies on Pulse. >> >> I have Pulse on one XFCE, IIRC, it was something some Gnome app depended >> on. > > Part of the distro, but source based (gentoo) for KDE; arch for the xfce > box Ah, thanks. Both give you much more control over things. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From jeb at ponderworthy.com Tue Apr 15 03:27:13 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E. Brickman) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2014 20:27:13 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Super performance incl. low latency with zita-a2j Message-ID: <14563671915.7653497409663252997.7951871916961957469@ponderworthy.com> I read about zita-ajbridge: http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linuxaudio/zita-ajbridge-doc/quickguide.html Set Jack to use its dummy driver, and then (in background) run zita-a2j for output and/or zita-j2a for input, and then ignore the 'system' input and output ports and use the Zita ports. I went from 5.33ms to 1.33ms latency, and from occasional xruns to zero, and even with that my jackd usage percent is cut in half! Shocking. And that's three Yoshimis simultaneously. :-) I am tempted to giggle, but I am happier than that!!! The only partial catch was MIDI; without the ALSA driver for Jack, one does not have Jack MIDI :-) Unless, of course, one uses a2jmidid, so that's what I'm doing. With such a small Jack period, the extra period for a2jmidid is not an issue. Just had to report, and congratulate, and thank, everyone involved!!!!! Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Tue Apr 15 04:17:58 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 07:17:58 +0300 Subject: [LAU] Super performance incl. low latency with zita-a2j In-Reply-To: <14563671915.7653497409663252997.7951871916961957469@ponderworthy.com> References: <14563671915.7653497409663252997.7951871916961957469@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Jonathan E. Brickman wrote: > I read about zita-ajbridge: > [...] > The only partial catch was MIDI; without the ALSA driver for Jack, one > does not have Jack MIDI :-) Unless, of course, one uses a2jmidid, so > that's what I'm doing. With such a small Jack period, the extra period for > a2jmidid is not an issue. > the latest version of JACK 1 has the zita-a2j/j2a tools available as builtin clients, a2jmidi available as a builtin "slave" driver, and reduces MIDI latency even further, just FYI. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 15 11:09:08 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 11:09:08 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Super performance incl. low latency with zita-a2j In-Reply-To: <14563671915.7653497409663252997.7951871916961957469@ponderworthy.com> References: <14563671915.7653497409663252997.7951871916961957469@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <20140415110908.GA13502@linuxaudio.org> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 08:27:13PM -0700, Jonathan E. Brickman wrote: > I read about zita-ajbridge: > > http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linuxaudio/zita-ajbridge-doc/quickguide.html > > Set Jack to use its dummy driver, and then (in background) run zita-a2j > for output and/or zita-j2a for input, and then ignore the 'system' input > and output ports and use the Zita ports. I went from 5.33ms to 1.33ms latency, > and from occasional xruns to zero, and even with that my jackd usage percent > is cut in half! Shocking. Hmm... What parameters are you using for Jack and zita-x2y ? I have some difficulty in believing that 1.33 ms latency. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From jeb at ponderworthy.com Tue Apr 15 12:21:35 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E. Brickman) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 05:21:35 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Super performance incl. low latency with zita-a2j In-Reply-To: References: <14563671915.7653497409663252997.7951871916961957469@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <145655493f2.5705378314584885102.-5794201850646809534@ponderworthy.com> Paul, I should have guessed :-) Any idea how best to identify it under Arch Linux -- perhaps the 'git' version of jack2? J.E.B. ---- On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:17:58 -0700 Paul Davis<paul at linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote ---- On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Jonathan E. Brickman <jeb at ponderworthy.com> wrote: I read about zita-ajbridge: [...] The only partial catch was MIDI; without the ALSA driver for Jack, one does not have Jack MIDI :-) Unless, of course, one uses a2jmidid, so that's what I'm doing. With such a small Jack period, the extra period for a2jmidid is not an issue. the latest version of JACK 1 has the zita-a2j/j2a tools available as builtin clients, a2jmidi available as a builtin "slave" driver, and reduces MIDI latency even further, just FYI. Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harryhaaren at gmail.com Tue Apr 15 12:26:00 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 13:26:00 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Super performance incl. low latency with zita-a2j In-Reply-To: <145655493f2.5705378314584885102.-5794201850646809534@ponderworthy.com> References: <14563671915.7653497409663252997.7951871916961957469@ponderworthy.com> <145655493f2.5705378314584885102.-5794201850646809534@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 1:21 PM, Jonathan E. Brickman wrote: > Any idea how best to identify it under Arch Linux See output of pacman -Ss jack "jack" -> jack1 "jack2" -> jack2 HTH, -Harry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 15 12:28:30 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 12:28:30 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Super performance incl. low latency with zita-a2j In-Reply-To: <145655493f2.5705378314584885102.-5794201850646809534@ponderworthy.com> References: <14563671915.7653497409663252997.7951871916961957469@ponderworthy.com> <145655493f2.5705378314584885102.-5794201850646809534@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <20140415122829.GE13502@linuxaudio.org> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 05:21:35AM -0700, Jonathan E. Brickman wrote: > Paul, I should have guessed :-) Any idea how best to identify it under Arch Linux -- perhaps the 'git' version of jack2? The standard Arch Jack package. This is Jack1 0.124.1, Jack2 doesn't have zita-x2y built-in. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From jeb at ponderworthy.com Tue Apr 15 12:50:12 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E. Brickman) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 05:50:12 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Super performance incl. low latency with zita-a2j In-Reply-To: References: <14563671915.7653497409663252997.7951871916961957469@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <14565700b82.4651659666063482390.6565713415274518124@ponderworthy.com> Wow, Jack1! http://jackaudio.org/node/67 J.E.B. ---- On Mon, 14 Apr 2014 21:17:58 -0700 Paul Davis <paul at linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote ---- On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Jonathan E. Brickman <jeb at ponderworthy.com> wrote: I read about zita-ajbridge: [...] The only partial catch was MIDI; without the ALSA driver for Jack, one does not have Jack MIDI :-) Unless, of course, one uses a2jmidid, so that's what I'm doing. With such a small Jack period, the extra period for a2jmidid is not an issue. the latest version of JACK 1 has the zita-a2j/j2a tools available as builtin clients, a2jmidi available as a builtin "slave" driver, and reduces MIDI latency even further, just FYI. Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Apr 15 13:17:03 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 06:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Apr 2014, James Mckernon wrote: > On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > I would realy like to stay away from having to use a USB or FW > audio IF. In fact I would like to be able to continue to use my > delta 66 for as long as I can before I spend more money :) ?The > > Thanks for the useful info in your post. Just to be clear on this part: are > you saying you don't want to switch to USB/FW solely because you want to > keep using your delta 66, or because you have some definite preference for > PCIe over USB/FW devices? If the latter, I wonder why? USB in audio is limited. Getting clear USB ports interupt wise is not easy. Audio can not be on a hub or share it's usb with anything else, but many new MB have no mouse or kb port so the USB is already being used for that much. The real reason though, is latency. With the pci the latency can be 1/4 what it can be in USB or FW. That is the lowest seeting jack for USB or FW is 64/2, but I can run the d66 at 16/2 with no problem on a well tuned system. This does make a difference for live work. I know that 64/2 seems like very good latency (it is) but remember that the card then adds another ms in each direction as well as the stage distances on top of that. That is the time it takes the sound to reach my ear after going through the computer as a processor and then through the air to my ear. Maybe that is still not worth worrying about... but even with 30 feet of cord and no digital delay, I can hear the delay from my playing to the sound reaching my ear. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Tue Apr 15 15:01:49 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 17:01:49 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers Message-ID: Hi, Playing with Radium a bit, so far so good. But how do you Tracker-guys add chords to your music? \r -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mista.tapas at gmx.net Tue Apr 15 15:39:14 2014 From: mista.tapas at gmx.net (Florian Paul Schmidt) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 17:39:14 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 15.04.2014 17:01, rosea grammostola wrote: > Hi, > > Playing with Radium a bit, so far so good. But how do you > Tracker-guys add chords to your music? > > \r > > > > _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user > mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > Several tracks routed to the same instrument.. Renoise actually even has support for multiple tracks per "track" ;D so you can record polyphonic stuff.. FS -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTTVKeAAoJEA5f4Coltk8ZxFYH/j8nu/Jn7oJs0xyCZtFcXrzu 4VJGezszk4s4Z0oieuM4qkZzEhfeFVyxyvvdRTO6cYNlIrpmdZ68apRf8HOqsVkO IR3z36MQrbGsYnwyDuY0Mvu1vdWJawqlK9bxM/lafyBEiqKB2eBUU142MV+UrHtJ vR2rWeLQTBBwK7xEWrAlWIsDQSsIVYT3QIq/5gM8VCMNBzZFjVmGTpjyDXch39Wq dcekLMbUW6md5MdclIIgbUDvl8sQlkBq+sgW0OE7V+aXDx9zzV+ViDPXjyObxh1V zs60njdh0kXYWFjPq87+AlYo3/vxeTjWmc9KqOgeuSjzkoHeDRPmJomK9GhZQZc= =x/cY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Tue Apr 15 19:29:02 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 21:29:02 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> Message-ID: Ok doesnt sound like chords are a strong point of trackers ;) On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Florian Paul Schmidt wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On 15.04.2014 17:01, rosea grammostola wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Playing with Radium a bit, so far so good. But how do you > > Tracker-guys add chords to your music? > > > > \r > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user > > mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > > > Several tracks routed to the same instrument.. Renoise actually even > has support for multiple tracks per "track" ;D so you can record > polyphonic stuff.. > > FS > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1 > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTTVKeAAoJEA5f4Coltk8ZxFYH/j8nu/Jn7oJs0xyCZtFcXrzu > 4VJGezszk4s4Z0oieuM4qkZzEhfeFVyxyvvdRTO6cYNlIrpmdZ68apRf8HOqsVkO > IR3z36MQrbGsYnwyDuY0Mvu1vdWJawqlK9bxM/lafyBEiqKB2eBUU142MV+UrHtJ > vR2rWeLQTBBwK7xEWrAlWIsDQSsIVYT3QIq/5gM8VCMNBzZFjVmGTpjyDXch39Wq > dcekLMbUW6md5MdclIIgbUDvl8sQlkBq+sgW0OE7V+aXDx9zzV+ViDPXjyObxh1V > zs60njdh0kXYWFjPq87+AlYo3/vxeTjWmc9KqOgeuSjzkoHeDRPmJomK9GhZQZc= > =x/cY > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wrl at illest.net Tue Apr 15 20:21:56 2014 From: wrl at illest.net (William Light) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 22:21:56 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> Message-ID: <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> on the contrary! once you get the hang of it, it's no different than using a piano roll editor. and, as a bonus, you can make polyphonic chords glide into each other, controlling the start and end notes of each poly glide. -w On Tue, 15 Apr 2014, at 21:29, rosea grammostola wrote: > Ok doesnt sound like chords are a strong point of trackers ;) > > > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Florian Paul Schmidt > wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 15.04.2014 17:01, rosea grammostola wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Playing with Radium a bit, so far so good. But how do you > > > Tracker-guys add chords to your music? > > > > > > \r > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user > > > mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > > > > > > Several tracks routed to the same instrument.. Renoise actually even > > has support for multiple tracks per "track" ;D so you can record > > polyphonic stuff.. > > > > FS > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1 > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ > > > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTTVKeAAoJEA5f4Coltk8ZxFYH/j8nu/Jn7oJs0xyCZtFcXrzu > > 4VJGezszk4s4Z0oieuM4qkZzEhfeFVyxyvvdRTO6cYNlIrpmdZ68apRf8HOqsVkO > > IR3z36MQrbGsYnwyDuY0Mvu1vdWJawqlK9bxM/lafyBEiqKB2eBUU142MV+UrHtJ > > vR2rWeLQTBBwK7xEWrAlWIsDQSsIVYT3QIq/5gM8VCMNBzZFjVmGTpjyDXch39Wq > > dcekLMbUW6md5MdclIIgbUDvl8sQlkBq+sgW0OE7V+aXDx9zzV+ViDPXjyObxh1V > > zs60njdh0kXYWFjPq87+AlYo3/vxeTjWmc9KqOgeuSjzkoHeDRPmJomK9GhZQZc= > > =x/cY > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > > Linux-audio-user mailing list > > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user From philcm at gnu.org Wed Apr 16 02:08:02 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Philippe Coatmeur) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 03:08:02 +0100 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <534DE602.7000808@gnu.org> On 04/15/2014 04:01 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > Hi, > > Playing with Radium a bit, so far so good. But how do you Tracker-guys > add chords to your music? Well, we just put a single note on a track, and another note on another track, and bam, chord :) I must say, I'm really impressed by Radium . The Pd integration is almost seamless and very powerful, and the interface is quite snappy. BTW, there is an issue with the main windowpane , resizing aggressively (ie beyond the boundaries of the "maximized" viewport) on "small" (1280 x 1024 minus vertical dock here) so I was thinking maybe somebody here would have an idea about how to manage such a setup : ------------------------------------- | pattern | mixer / inst | <= Both W & H variable | editor | matrix | | | | | | | ------------------------------------- | instrument parameters | <= Variable W only ------------------------------------- | status bar | ------------------------------------- <= Fixed W & H So that whatever frantic things happen in those various panes, the main window *never* resizes..? Phil -- Philippe Coatmeur +212 (0)6 10 64 73 72 +212 (0)5 37 78 55 46 * http://opensimo.org/adamweb/ * https://github.com/xaccrocheur * http://opensimo.org/play -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Wed Apr 16 06:39:07 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 20:39:07 -1000 Subject: [LAU] 10 artists who used tech to make better music Message-ID: <534E258B.2040209@hawaii.rr.com> http://www.techrepublic.com/pictures/10-tech-savvy-musicians/ Note: May not work in Firefox. It didn't work in FF for Windows at work even after I allowed all scripts to run. Other folk complained in the comments about it not working in Firefox. Don't know if it works in Chrome or Konqueror. It works in Qupzilla but gives an SSL certificate error every time you click on it. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Wed Apr 16 07:10:28 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 21:10:28 -1000 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <534E2CE4.906@hawaii.rr.com> Well, I HATE piano roll editors, so I guess I'll pass. Thanks, Rosea, Florian and William! On 04/15/2014 10:21 AM, William Light wrote: > on the contrary! once you get the hang of it, it's no different than > using a piano roll editor. and, as a bonus, you can make polyphonic > chords glide into each other, controlling the start and end notes of > each poly glide. > > -w > > On Tue, 15 Apr 2014, at 21:29, rosea grammostola wrote: >> Ok doesnt sound like chords are a strong point of trackers ;) >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Florian Paul Schmidt >> wrote: >> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> On 15.04.2014 17:01, rosea grammostola wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Playing with Radium a bit, so far so good. But how do you >>>> Tracker-guys add chords to your music? >>>> >>>> \r -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Wed Apr 16 07:19:30 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 21:19:30 -1000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/15/2014 03:17 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Apr 2014, James Mckernon wrote: > >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Len Ovens wrote: >> I would realy like to stay away from having to use a USB or FW >> audio IF. In fact I would like to be able to continue to use my >> delta 66 for as long as I can before I spend more money :) The >> >> Thanks for the useful info in your post. Just to be clear on this >> part: are >> you saying you don't want to switch to USB/FW solely because you want to >> keep using your delta 66, or because you have some definite preference >> for >> PCIe over USB/FW devices? If the latter, I wonder why? > > USB in audio is limited. Getting clear USB ports interupt wise is not > easy. Audio can not be on a hub or share it's usb with anything else, > but many new MB have no mouse or kb port so the USB is already being > used for that much. The real reason though, is latency. With the pci the > latency can be 1/4 what it can be in USB or FW. That is the lowest > seeting jack for USB or FW is 64/2, but I can run the d66 at 16/2 with > no problem on a well tuned system. This does make a difference for live > work. I know that 64/2 seems like very good latency (it is) but remember > that the card then adds another ms in each direction as well as the > stage distances on top of that. That is the time it takes the sound to > reach my ear after going through the computer as a processor and then > through the air to my ear. Maybe that is still not worth worrying > about... but even with 30 feet of cord and no digital delay, I can hear > the delay from my playing to the sound reaching my ear. Interesting. What is the difference between speed of sound in air and the speed of electricity through a cable? I think the lowest I've had my UCA-202 (USB 1.1) card work at was around ~3msec latency (on a USB2 port) with a Debian RT kernel just fooling around (no other RT optimizations on this 2.4GHz i7 laptop). I've had Yoshimi problems when latency gets too low on my stock kernel. And when I first tried Zyn, it had problems at much higher latencies than Yoshimi did at the time. But I haven't done much music stuff with my new laptop. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From k.s.matheussen at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 07:27:42 2014 From: k.s.matheussen at gmail.com (Kjetil Matheussen) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:27:42 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Linux-audio-user Digest, Vol 86, Issue 12 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: rosea grammostola: > > Hi, > > Playing with Radium a bit, so far so good. But how do you Tracker-guys add > chords to your music? > > Hi, I don't know whether you are only asking about trackers in general, or if you are asking about Radium as well (which may, or may not, be a tracker). But at least in Radium, you add polyphonic notes by holding left shift while adding notes. But to be honest, I've never used this feature myself. I always use several monophonic tracks instead. It's a nice feature when importing midi files though. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k.s.matheussen at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 07:31:13 2014 From: k.s.matheussen at gmail.com (Kjetil Matheussen) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:31:13 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 9:27 AM, Kjetil Matheussen wrote: > rosea grammostola: > >> > > >> > Hi, >> >> Playing with Radium a bit, so far so good. But how do you Tracker-guys add >> chords to your music? >> >> > Hi, I don't know whether you are only asking about trackers > in general, or if you are asking about Radium as well (which > may, or may not, be a tracker). > > But at least in Radium, you add polyphonic notes by holding > left shift while adding notes. > > But to be honest, I've never used this feature myself. I always > use several monophonic tracks instead. It's a nice feature > when importing midi files though. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Wed Apr 16 07:46:06 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 21:46:06 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Anyone used a Firewire-to-USB3 or ESATA adapter? Message-ID: <534E353E.7070303@hawaii.rr.com> My church has a 16-channel Presonus Firewire device that we're not currently using because (1) my laptop has no Firewire connector (the dead old one did), and (2) our sound tech's laptop has Windows 7 on it and apparently there's no Windows 7 device driver for his Firewire PC Card adapter. So I thought, maybe a Firewire<->USB adaptor would work. All we used the Presonus for is recording individual channels. Now I just record 2 channels of essentially-mono output from our mixing board, but I very much miss the ability to clean up and EQ individual instruments and mix them better (the volunteer sound people who frequently run our mixing board don't exactly have the greatest ears, plus the acoustics in our rented location aren't the best). My laptop has USB2 and USB3, plus an ESATA port. I see Amazon has a selection: Firewire to USB http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A172282%2Ck%3Afirewire%20to%20usb%20adapter Amazon doesn't seem to show a Firewire-ESATA adaptor. For desktop folk, they list this PCIe card (2 external ESATA, 2 external Firewire800/1394B, 1 internal 1394B, runs TI XIO2213 chipset): http://www.amazon.com/NitroAV-Fusion-FireWire800-Professional-Adapter/dp/B0055PG0KE/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1397633174&sr=1-6&keywords=firewire+to+esata+adapter Unfair: There's an Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter! I guess that will be enough to keep Firewire alive in the pro audio world. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From looplog at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 07:47:03 2014 From: looplog at gmail.com (michael noble) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 16:47:03 +0900 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534E2CE4.906@hawaii.rr.com> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E2CE4.906@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 4:10 PM, david wrote: > Well, I HATE piano roll editors, so I guess I'll pass. Interestingly, I'm no fan of trackers or piano roll editors, but I've always liked radium's interface. There's something unique about it. So maybe keep an open mind (I know, what a drag...) and give it a try. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Wed Apr 16 08:04:45 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2014 22:04:45 -1000 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E2CE4.906@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <534E399D.9090708@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/15/2014 09:47 PM, michael noble wrote: > On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 4:10 PM, david wrote: > > Well, I HATE piano roll editors, so I guess I'll pass. > > Interestingly, I'm no fan of trackers or piano roll editors, but I've > always liked radium's interface. There's something unique about it. So > maybe keep an open mind (I know, what a drag...) and give it a try. Eh, I'll stick with Rosegarden's score editor. I'm too old to change my preferred way of looking at music. For the record, I don't like Rosegarden's piano roll editor, either, so it's nothing specifically against Radium or other programs that use piano roll editors. It's just me. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From simonzwise at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 08:20:00 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 18:20:00 +1000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <534E3D30.3080309@gmail.com> On 16/04/14 17:19, david wrote: > > Interesting. What is the difference between speed of sound in air and the speed > of electricity through a cable? sound is about 3ms per metre (330 m/s) in air ... in a room, talking about sound, there is no significant delay for the signal in the cable ... from Sydney to Hawaii via copper or fibre yes, considering phase differences for RGB video signals in a building yes, talking about timing on a circuit board or a bus while syncing gigahertz clocks yes, but for sound within a building the speed over copper may as well be infinite. I was shown a rather nice artwork that used high resolution radar (resolutions around 1 centimetre I think) to get positions (it was made in a university robotics department that had such things!). The way those work is very interesting ... the frequencies are way to high to digitise, so the electronics has to be all analogue ... the 'circuitry' is basically plumbing ... gold lined tubes and chambers using resonances and such to measure delays and phase differences. At those frequencies the speed of light becomes a dominant consideration. Simon From simonzwise at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 08:39:47 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 18:39:47 +1000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <534E3D30.3080309@gmail.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <534E3D30.3080309@gmail.com> Message-ID: <534E41D3.5080706@gmail.com> On 16/04/14 18:20, Simon Wise wrote: > On 16/04/14 17:19, david wrote: > >> >> Interesting. What is the difference between speed of sound in air and the speed >> of electricity through a cable? > > sound is about 3ms per metre (330 m/s) in air > > ... in a room, talking about sound, there is no significant delay for the signal > in the cable ... from Sydney to Hawaii via copper or fibre yes, considering > phase differences for RGB video signals in a building yes, talking about timing > on a circuit board or a bus while syncing gigahertz clocks yes, but for sound > within a building the speed over copper may as well be infinite. > > > I was shown a rather nice artwork that used high resolution radar (resolutions > around 1 centimetre I think) to get positions (it was made in a university > robotics department that had such things!). The way those work is very > interesting ... the frequencies are way to high to digitise, so the electronics > has to be all analogue ... the 'circuitry' is basically plumbing ... gold lined > tubes and chambers using resonances and such to measure delays and phase > differences. At those frequencies the speed of light becomes a dominant > consideration. and there are stories around of ridiculously expensive delay units for very short delays (paid for by US military budgets) and australians replacing them with a much more reliable, and almost free, solution using some switches and a circuit board with loops of 1, 2, 4, 8, ... etc centimetres each, but it's the usual way to do that sort of delay. Simon From clemens at ladisch.de Wed Apr 16 09:46:25 2014 From: clemens at ladisch.de (Clemens Ladisch) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 11:46:25 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Anyone used a Firewire-to-USB3 or ESATA adapter? In-Reply-To: <534E353E.7070303@hawaii.rr.com> References: <534E353E.7070303@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <534E5171.9090204@ladisch.de> david wrote: > there's no Windows 7 device driver for his Firewire PC Card adapter. All FireWire controllers use the same driver interface (OHCI), and that driver ships with Windows. If there is a problem, it is with the PC Card controller driver. > So I thought, maybe a Firewire<->USB adaptor would work. These are completely different protocols; they cannot be mapped to each other. > I see Amazon has a selection: > > Firewire to USB > > http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A172282%2Ck%3Afirewire%20to%20usb%20adapter These do not work (see the reviews) unless your computer also has a FireWire controller that is connected to the USB jack. > Unfair: There's an Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter! Thunderbolt is just a PCIe bus. Regards, Clemens From atte at youmail.dk Wed Apr 16 10:16:49 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 12:16:49 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> On 04/15/2014 10:21 PM, William Light wrote: > on the contrary! once you get the hang of it, it's no different than > using a piano roll editor. and, as a bonus, you can make polyphonic > chords glide into each other, controlling the start and end notes of > each poly glide. Agreed, trackers are very powerful, also in this aspect. However trying to figure out which note off goes with what note on a polyphonic track in renoise, especially if it's something that been played by a real person, is not really my idea of fun. I've been using renoise for years, and this (good handling of midi recordings) is one of the (many) reasons I'm currently looking for another DAW... -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From unaudio at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 10:53:00 2014 From: unaudio at gmail.com (Vytautas Jancauskas) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:53:00 +0300 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Atte wrote: > > Agreed, trackers are very powerful, also in this aspect. > > However trying to figure out which note off goes with what note on a > polyphonic track in renoise, especially if it's something that been played > by a real person, is not really my idea of fun. > > I've been using renoise for years, and this (good handling of midi > recordings) is one of the (many) reasons I'm currently looking for another > DAW... > > What are the many other reasons? Although I don't completely understand the first problem either... Trackers are most suited for the kind of music you would buy an MPC for I guess. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atte at youmail.dk Wed Apr 16 11:33:43 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:43 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> On 04/16/2014 12:53 PM, Vytautas Jancauskas wrote: > What are the many other reasons? From the top of my head: * No support for sustain pedal on renoise native instruments (and no interest in adding it) * Doesn't work well with lot's of long samples * X-fade loop broken, no interest in fixing, I even posted a python script to show how it's done without magic * New version is a step in a direction I don't like * "remove unused samples" feature removed * loop editor removed * don't get the new instrument design > Although I don't completely understand > the first problem either... Trackers are most suited for the kind of > music you would buy an MPC for I guess. True. In '09 when I started using renoise, the options were quite limited. Renoise was the only stable, well rounded music software I could find. I always felt that the tracker interface counter-productive and backwards (although it has it's strong points). So you could say that I lived with and learned to work with/agains the tracker part of renoise until now. Today it's different, there are quite a few options. -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 11:42:01 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:42:01 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> Message-ID: @Atte, what is the next DAW(s) you're using? How does Radium compare to Renoise? On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Atte wrote: > On 04/16/2014 12:53 PM, Vytautas Jancauskas wrote: > > What are the many other reasons? >> > > From the top of my head: > * No support for sustain pedal on renoise native instruments (and no > interest in adding it) > * Doesn't work well with lot's of long samples > * X-fade loop broken, no interest in fixing, I even posted a python script > to show how it's done without magic > * New version is a step in a direction I don't like > * "remove unused samples" feature removed > * loop editor removed > * don't get the new instrument design > > > Although I don't completely understand >> the first problem either... Trackers are most suited for the kind of >> music you would buy an MPC for I guess. >> > > True. In '09 when I started using renoise, the options were quite limited. > Renoise was the only stable, well rounded music software I could find. I > always felt that the tracker interface counter-productive and backwards > (although it has it's strong points). So you could say that I lived with > and learned to work with/agains the tracker part of renoise until now. > > Today it's different, there are quite a few options. > > > -- > Atte > > http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gheskett at wdtv.com Wed Apr 16 12:54:27 2014 From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 08:54:27 -0400 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <201404160854.27333.gheskett@wdtv.com> On Wednesday 16 April 2014 08:44:15 david did opine: > On 04/15/2014 03:17 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > > On Tue, 15 Apr 2014, James Mckernon wrote: > >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > >> I would realy like to stay away from having to use a USB or FW > >> audio IF. In fact I would like to be able to continue to use my > >> delta 66 for as long as I can before I spend more money :) The > >> > >> Thanks for the useful info in your post. Just to be clear on this > >> part: are > >> you saying you don't want to switch to USB/FW solely because you want > >> to keep using your delta 66, or because you have some definite > >> preference for > >> PCIe over USB/FW devices? If the latter, I wonder why? > > > > USB in audio is limited. Getting clear USB ports interrupt wise is not > > easy. Audio can not be on a hub or share it's usb with anything else, > > but many new MB have no mouse or kb port so the USB is already being > > used for that much. The real reason though, is latency. With the pci > > the latency can be 1/4 what it can be in USB or FW. That is the > > lowest seeting jack for USB or FW is 64/2, but I can run the d66 at > > 16/2 with no problem on a well tuned system. This does make a > > difference for live work. I know that 64/2 seems like very good > > latency (it is) but remember that the card then adds another ms in > > each direction as well as the stage distances on top of that. That is > > the time it takes the sound to reach my ear after going through the > > computer as a processor and then through the air to my ear. Maybe > > that is still not worth worrying about... but even with 30 feet of > > cord and no digital delay, I can hear the delay from my playing to > > the sound reaching my ear. > > Interesting. What is the difference between speed of sound in air and > the speed of electricity through a cable? Sound is nominally 720 miles per hour. Rather leisurely IOW. A perfect cable is C speed, 258 times faster. But cable (coaxial) actually range in speeds between 66% of C for home usable cables, to around 98% of C for 9" diameter high power broadcast stuff, C being 186,272 miles per second in a vacuum. Thats 298,035.2 kilometers per second for the metric folks here. > I think the lowest I've had my UCA-202 (USB 1.1) card work at was around > ~3msec latency (on a USB2 port) with a Debian RT kernel just fooling > around (no other RT optimizations on this 2.4GHz i7 laptop). I've had > Yoshimi problems when latency gets too low on my stock kernel. And when > I first tried Zyn, it had problems at much higher latencies than Yoshimi > did at the time. > > But I haven't done much music stuff with my new laptop. Cheers, Gene -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS From atte at youmail.dk Wed Apr 16 13:05:50 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 15:05:50 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> On 04/16/2014 01:42 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > @Atte, what is the next DAW(s) you're using? Well the first I tried was NON, but for various reasons that didn't fit the bill. I've been trying out reaper for about three weeks now, it seems very promising so far. Flexible, fast and robust. > How does Radium compare to Renoise? It's not as well rounded (yet), but the embedded PD is a huge plus. -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From gheskett at wdtv.com Wed Apr 16 13:06:15 2014 From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:06:15 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Anyone used a Firewire-to-USB3 or ESATA adapter? In-Reply-To: <534E353E.7070303@hawaii.rr.com> References: <534E353E.7070303@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <201404160906.15573.gheskett@wdtv.com> On Wednesday 16 April 2014 08:55:55 david did opine: > My church has a 16-channel Presonus Firewire device that we're not > currently using because (1) my laptop has no Firewire connector (the > dead old one did), and (2) our sound tech's laptop has Windows 7 on it > and apparently there's no Windows 7 device driver for his Firewire PC > Card adapter. > > So I thought, maybe a Firewire<->USB adaptor would work. All we used the > Presonus for is recording individual channels. Now I just record 2 > channels of essentially-mono output from our mixing board, but I very > much miss the ability to clean up and EQ individual instruments and mix > them better (the volunteer sound people who frequently run our mixing > board don't exactly have the greatest ears, plus the acoustics in our > rented location aren't the best). > > My laptop has USB2 and USB3, plus an ESATA port. > > I see Amazon has a selection: > > Firewire to USB > > http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A172282%2Ck%3Afirewire%20to > %20usb%20adapter > > Amazon doesn't seem to show a Firewire-ESATA adaptor. > > For desktop folk, they list this PCIe card (2 external ESATA, 2 external > Firewire800/1394B, 1 internal 1394B, runs TI XIO2213 chipset): > > http://www.amazon.com/NitroAV-Fusion-FireWire800-Professional-Adapter/dp > /B0055PG0KE/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1397633174&sr=1-6&keywo > rds=firewire+to+esata+adapter > > Unfair: There's an Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter! I guess that > will be enough to keep Firewire alive in the pro audio world. Apple owns the patent rights to firewire. Went thru all the motions of publishing the specs, waited for it to take off, then decided they needed a per port royalty fee that was more than the hardware cost. Firewire disappeared almost overnight. I have some firewire stuff, a Sony Digital Hi-8 Handy-Cam. But when I built this machine back in 2008, a quad core phenom on an almost $300 ASUS motherboard, I had to go find a firewire card to put in it before I could use kino to take in the camera, edit out the worst of my shakes, and make dvd's out of it for all the parties involved in that wedding (and a couple more since). So that tells you that as far as the motherboard makers were concerned, firewire had priced itself out of the market already 6 years ago. Cheers, Gene -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 13:12:44 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 15:12:44 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> Message-ID: @Atte, Reaper on Linux? On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Atte wrote: > On 04/16/2014 01:42 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > > @Atte, what is the next DAW(s) you're using? >> > > Well the first I tried was NON, but for various reasons that didn't fit > the bill. > > I've been trying out reaper for about three weeks now, it seems very > promising so far. Flexible, fast and robust. > > > How does Radium compare to Renoise? >> > > It's not as well rounded (yet), but the embedded PD is a huge plus. > > > -- > Atte > > http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gheskett at wdtv.com Wed Apr 16 13:20:51 2014 From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:20:51 -0400 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <534E3D30.3080309@gmail.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <534E3D30.3080309@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201404160920.51723.gheskett@wdtv.com> On Wednesday 16 April 2014 09:09:06 Simon Wise did opine: > On 16/04/14 17:19, david wrote: > > Interesting. What is the difference between speed of sound in air and > > the speed of electricity through a cable? > > sound is about 3ms per metre (330 m/s) in air > > ... in a room, talking about sound, there is no significant delay for > the signal in the cable ... from Sydney to Hawaii via copper or fibre > yes, considering phase differences for RGB video signals in a building > yes, talking about timing on a circuit board or a bus while syncing > gigahertz clocks yes, but for sound within a building the speed over > copper may as well be infinite. > > > I was shown a rather nice artwork that used high resolution radar > (resolutions around 1 centimetre I think) to get positions (it was made > in a university robotics department that had such things!). The way > those work is very interesting ... the frequencies are way to high to > digitise, so the electronics has to be all analogue ... the 'circuitry' > is basically plumbing ... gold lined tubes and chambers using > resonances and such to measure delays and phase differences. At those > frequencies the speed of light becomes a dominant consideration. > > > Simon We have a gismo thats basically much simpler than all that plumbing, to use when checking a cable for damage, called a Time Domain Reflectometer. The pro versions using a tunnel diode switch as a pulse generator, can tell you theres a bullethole in the line 883.6' out from where you are hooked up. I've made homemade versions using a pulse generator and a fast oscilloscope to measure the echo delay, punched some buttons on a good calculator and then told the tower crew where to open it up and replace a burned up connector bullet and/or the teflon disk holding it centered in the line. It got the job done so I figured it was good enough for the girls I go with. :) > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user Cheers, Gene -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Apr 16 13:17:39 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 06:17:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Apr 2014, david wrote: > Interesting. What is the difference between speed of sound in air and the > speed of electricity through a cable? I was talking about through air. I can only play as fast as I can hear and at thirty feet or so from the sound source, my instrument sounds delayed from the rest of the band because I hear their sound that much later and play my part that much later. I don't normally play at that distance, but ten feet is pretty standard. > I think the lowest I've had my UCA-202 (USB 1.1) card work at was around > ~3msec latency (on a USB2 port) with a Debian RT kernel just fooling around > (no other RT optimizations on this 2.4GHz i7 laptop). I've had Yoshimi > problems when latency gets too low on my stock kernel. And when I first > tried Zyn, it had problems at much higher latencies than Yoshimi did at the > time. Is that measured round trip? Or one way through the jack part? What sample rate? (I'm using 48k) I can get qjackctl so it says I have .6ms latency. But I think that is one way, 1.2ms ... then add ~1 ms each way just to get through the sound card monitor mixing and maybe a bit more and I have already three and a half ms. Then I am some distance away from my monitor too. Perhaps with a newer faster CPU I could run at 96k and work with a FW device and get the same results. USB is very handy for many things but for sound it takes some playing around to get a clean low latency set up. However, it looks like I can still get lots of MB with PCI slots in them. I will probaly do that. Hopefully with three PCI slots I can get one that is irq clean. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From atte at youmail.dk Wed Apr 16 13:37:21 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 15:37:21 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> On 04/16/2014 03:12 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > @Atte, Reaper on Linux? Yeah, through wine... -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From idragosani at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 13:40:14 2014 From: idragosani at gmail.com (Brett McCoy) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:40:14 -0400 Subject: [LAU] 10 artists who used tech to make better music In-Reply-To: <534E258B.2040209@hawaii.rr.com> References: <534E258B.2040209@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: Works fine in Chrome on Linux On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 2:39 AM, david wrote: > http://www.techrepublic.com/pictures/10-tech-savvy-musicians/ > > Note: May not work in Firefox. It didn't work in FF for Windows at work > even after I allowed all scripts to run. Other folk complained in the > comments about it not working in Firefox. Don't know if it works in Chrome > or Konqueror. It works in Qupzilla but gives an SSL certificate error every > time you click on it. > > -- > David W. Jones > gnome at hawaii.rr.com > authenticity, honesty, community > http://dancingtreefrog.com > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -- Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world." -- Jelaleddin Rumi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 13:42:09 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 15:42:09 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> Message-ID: What did you miss in NON? I expected you to jump on the Bitwig-train tbh :) On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Atte wrote: > On 04/16/2014 03:12 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > > @Atte, Reaper on Linux? >> > > Yeah, through wine... > > > -- > Atte > > http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atte at youmail.dk Wed Apr 16 18:26:37 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 20:26:37 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> On 04/16/2014 03:42 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > What did you miss in NON? I'd rather not this turns into critique of specific FLOSS software. > I expected you to jump on the Bitwig-train tbh :) Yeah, tried it quickly, a few quirks, seems slow, no midi in IIRC. I might return later when the dust have settled... -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From carlo.ratm at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 18:37:34 2014 From: carlo.ratm at gmail.com (Carlo Ascani) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 20:37:34 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Music made in Linux - A song from an hobbyst Message-ID: Hi, I have just uploaded a song made entirely in Linux. The links: on bandcamp - https://lotfi.bandcamp.com/track/fulci direct download - http://carlorat.me/download/fulci.flac I have uploaded the full Ardour 3 project on bitbucket, it contains all the stems without processing. https://bitbucket.org/carloratm/fulci/src Please, feel free to open it and remix! All audio data is under a Creative Commons By Share-Alike license (see COPYING) And now, just a couple of words about the song with some credits: - the original idea was composed using Renoise - the speech you can hear is Lucio Fulci, an Italian director - the bass is played and recorded by Lorenzo Cecchi on linux - the analogue drums was played by me and recorded on linux by Lorenzo Cecchi - the piano was played by frate (http://amanitaphalloides.bandcamp.com/) - the mixing has been done by me, using Ardour 3. I am in no way a professionist neither an expert. I did it just for fun, I hope you enoy it. -- Carlo Ascani | carlorat.me skype: carloratm From silvain at freeshell.de Wed Apr 16 18:52:43 2014 From: silvain at freeshell.de (F. Silvain) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 20:52:43 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] Music made in Linux - A song from an hobbyst In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1404162049490.5742@freeshell.de> Carlo Ascani, Apr 16 2014: > Hi, > > I have just uploaded a song made entirely in Linux. > The links: > > on bandcamp - https://lotfi.bandcamp.com/track/fulci > direct download - http://carlorat.me/download/fulci.flac Hey Carlo! Thanks for sharing. I find the mix bass-heavy. Especially in the beginning the bass sounds muddy. Later on I like it much better. The rhythm is quite intriguing. Did you use a real analogue drum machine or are those sounds from a software synth? Also what tool did you use for the effect sound? Thank you again. ... Ta-ta ---- Ffanci * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain From wrl at illest.net Wed Apr 16 19:57:33 2014 From: wrl at illest.net (William Light) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 21:57:33 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <1397678253.404.107296865.2D0621A3@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Wed, 16 Apr 2014, at 20:26, Atte wrote: > On 04/16/2014 03:42 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > > > What did you miss in NON? > > I'd rather not this turns into critique of specific FLOSS software. > > > I expected you to jump on the Bitwig-train tbh :) > > Yeah, tried it quickly, a few quirks, seems slow, no midi in IIRC. I > might return later when the dust have settled... midi in works fine over here. -w > -- > Atte > > http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user From atte at youmail.dk Wed Apr 16 20:12:23 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 22:12:23 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <1397678253.404.107296865.2D0621A3@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <1397678253.404.107296865.2D0621A3@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <534EE427.5060509@youmail.dk> On 04/16/2014 09:57 PM, William Light wrote: > midi in works fine over here. Ok, digging reaper, though... -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Wed Apr 16 20:40:11 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 22:40:11 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> Message-ID: "I'd rather not this turns into critique of specific FLOSS software." I think it's interesting to know why you end up using Windows software on Linux. Critique is not bad imho. On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 8:26 PM, Atte wrote: > On 04/16/2014 03:42 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > > What did you miss in NON? >> > > I'd rather not this turns into critique of specific FLOSS software. > > > I expected you to jump on the Bitwig-train tbh :) >> > > Yeah, tried it quickly, a few quirks, seems slow, no midi in IIRC. I might > return later when the dust have settled... > > > -- > Atte > > http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Apr 16 20:51:38 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:51:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <534E3D30.3080309@gmail.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <534E3D30.3080309@gmail.com> Message-ID: Speaking about USB audio IFs... It appears that the USB2 devices have problems with USB3 ports (Like the 1818vsl). See: https://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/33427.page I don't know if this has been fixed by Intel since Ivy. It appears to be a hardware problem with Intel's chipset where the only workaround is to remove the USB3 driver/kernel module and use all the USB3 ports as USB2 ports. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From wrl at illest.net Wed Apr 16 21:02:50 2014 From: wrl at illest.net (William Light) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 23:02:50 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534EE427.5060509@youmail.dk> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <1397678253.404.107296865.2D0621A3@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534EE427.5060509@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <1397682170.23659.107319561.6EBDD859@webmail.messagingengine.com> yeah, reaper's excellent. i run it in wine as well, though i don't use it as a main part of my workflow. honestly, the variety of time stretching and pitch shifting algorithms alone is worth the non-commercial license price. -w On Wed, 16 Apr 2014, at 22:12, Atte wrote: > On 04/16/2014 09:57 PM, William Light wrote: > > > midi in works fine over here. > > Ok, digging reaper, though... > > -- > Atte > > http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user From jeremy at autostatic.com Wed Apr 16 21:03:51 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 23:03:51 +0200 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <534E3D30.3080309@gmail.com> Message-ID: <534EF037.6020605@autostatic.com> On 04/16/2014 10:51 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > It appears that the USB2 devices have problems with USB3 ports (Like the > 1818vsl). So far I have little issues with my USB2 audio interface (not a 1818VSL) and the xhci driver. I've come across that thread too and it seems the issue is specific for the 1818VSL. I should really do some testing how the ehci and xhci drivers compare, at the moment I'm inclined to think either the USB3 host controllers I use or the xhci driver performs better with my interface than either USB2 controllers or the ehci driver. Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From atte at youmail.dk Wed Apr 16 21:42:01 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 23:42:01 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> On 04/16/2014 10:40 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > > "I'd rather not this turns into critique of specific FLOSS software." > > I think it's interesting to know why you end up using Windows software > on Linux. Critique is not bad imho. Ok, let me take it from another angle: I'd much prefer FLOSS, if that's not possible then a linux native commercial solution. So why am I considering reaper through wine? Because it offers me something that I found nowhere else. 1) I need something that'll work as a "traditional DAW" (real musicians generating audio tracks) *and* something to work with electronic music. Could be two different programs, would be nice if it was one. 2) I need something that I can rely on. Something that opens up just like I left it *every time*. 3) Although I find it attractive, the linux-way-of-small-tools-handling-a-small-part-of-a-larger-job doesn't really seem practical in audio *to me*. I prefer the old-fashion model of a host for different reasons: Better/tighter integration, one project-file (or project folder) and simpler/more safe upgrade path. 4) I need something that's well rounded (like renoise), but also allows me to experiment, even go cracy some times. As for reaper, I strongly encourage everyone here that hasn't tried it yet, to spend a few days in it. You might like it, you might hate it, but you'll sure have broadened your perspective! You get seamless timestretch (add marker and move it around to stretch), most commonly used effects included, recording in any format I ever heard of, an app taht is very light on the CPU and extremely configurable. And I just discovered JS, reapers native plugin format; write and debug your own plugins right from within reaper, took me bout an hour to write something that emulates renoise B0 (reverse playback) effect. And as a bonus, you get to choose from *alot* of free and (I'm sorry to say) pretty good vsts. Ever tried synth1? I hadn't, but wow, what an awesome synth! So as I said, I'd love to use FLOSS, I'd even be more than happy to lower my standards quite a bit. But the comparison is just not fair, at least from where I sit. Note that I haven't settled on reaper just yet (I did buy a license, though), and even if I do, I still consider myself a linux-audio-user. Did that answer your question? -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Apr 16 23:33:55 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 16:33:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <534EF037.6020605@autostatic.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <534E3D30.3080309@gmail.com> <534EF037.6020605@autostatic.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2014, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > On 04/16/2014 10:51 PM, Len Ovens wrote: >> It appears that the USB2 devices have problems with USB3 ports (Like the >> 1818vsl). > > So far I have little issues with my USB2 audio interface (not a 1818VSL) > and the xhci driver. I've come across that thread too and it seems the > issue is specific for the 1818VSL. It is specific to the Intel Ivy Bridge chipset USB3 implementation. So if your computer uses a different HW implementation you should be fine. For example a PCIe card with USB3 ports is ok or a MB that uses different HW. Intel admits the problem is there but will not fix it and feels that well written drivers will just ask the USB device for a resend of the missed packet !!!??? They say that nobody will notice the missing packet anyway??? I read this to mean "it is in the hardware now and there is no soft/firmware patch possible." One hopes the 4th gen chips are better designed. Thats what I am looking to buy. I don't have a USB2 device to try though. > I should really do some testing how the ehci and xhci drivers compare, > at the moment I'm inclined to think either the USB3 host controllers I > use or the xhci driver performs better with my interface than either > USB2 controllers or the ehci driver. That is at least good news. I suspect a HW difference in the host off the top of my head. I think the system pays more attention to them too. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From simonzwise at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 01:15:35 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 11:15:35 +1000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <201404160920.51723.gheskett@wdtv.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <534E3D30.3080309@gmail.com> <201404160920.51723.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: <534F2B37.5090609@gmail.com> On 16/04/14 23:20, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Wednesday 16 April 2014 09:09:06 Simon Wise did opine: >> I was shown a rather nice artwork that used high resolution radar >> (resolutions around 1 centimetre I think) to get positions (it was made >> in a university robotics department that had such things!). The way >> those work is very interesting ... the frequencies are way to high to >> digitise, so the electronics has to be all analogue ... the 'circuitry' >> is basically plumbing ... gold lined tubes and chambers using >> resonances and such to measure delays and phase differences. At those >> frequencies the speed of light becomes a dominant consideration. > > We have a gismo thats basically much simpler than all that plumbing, to use > when checking a cable for damage, called a Time Domain Reflectometer. The > pro versions using a tunnel diode switch as a pulse generator, can tell you > theres a bullethole in the line 883.6' out from where you are hooked up. > I've made homemade versions using a pulse generator and a fast oscilloscope > to measure the echo delay, punched some buttons on a good calculator and > then told the tower crew where to open it up and replace a burned up > connector bullet and/or the teflon disk holding it centered in the line. > It got the job done so I figured it was good enough for the girls I go > with. :) not at all convinced that a fast oscilloscope, a good calculator and the wet-ware connecting them are simpler than a bit of machined metal with gold plating, but certainly re-using existing gadgets beats making new ones. Simon From jeb at ponderworthy.com Thu Apr 17 01:53:05 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E. Brickman) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 18:53:05 -0700 Subject: [LAU] jack2 vs. jack1/zita vs. jack2+zita-a2j, performance differences Message-ID: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> Thought the below might be of interest to some. The last is the best :-) Hardware and clients identical, octo 4GHz, test load is one yoshimi with jack_keyboard driving by way of a passthrough mididings. ---------------------------- Item one is vanilla distro jack2, run like this: jack_control start jack_control ds alsa jack_control dps device hw:SB jack_control dps rate 48000 jack_control dps nperiods 2 jack_control dps period 128 jack_control dps midi-driver seq jack_control dps inchannels 2 jack_control dps outchannels 2 jack_control eps realtime true jack_control eps realtime-priority 50 jack_control eps clock-source 1 The above is as low in reported latency I could go, 5.33ms, using every optimization I know of via the Arch wiki and realtimeconfigquickscan and other sources. Running load-less, it gives me usage ranging 0.9 through 1.4%, usually hanging in at 1.3%. With the test load, it tends to sit at 10% and rise with stress. A few xruns every once in a while are inevitable, even when the test load is delivering only silence. Nice tone quality. ----------------------------- Item two is jack1-git, compiled with Zita libraries engaged, run like this: nohup schedtool -R -p 50 -e /usr/bin/jackd -A SB -R -c h -X alsa_midi -d dummy -r 48000 -p 32 & Reported latency is 2ms. Load-less, usage rating is 1.3% through 29%, usually hanging in at 1.4% or so. With the test load, it sits at 31.2% at silence. No xruns. But no actual sound came out :-) ----------------------------- Item three is jack1-git, Zita libraries present but not used, run like this: nohup schedtool -R -p 50 -e /usr/bin/jackd -R -c h -X alsa_midi -d dummy -r 48000 -p 32 & nohup schedtool -R -p 50 -e /usr/local/bin/zita-j2a -d hw:SB 2ms reported latency. Loadless usage is 20%. With test load, 25-33% at silence. No xruns. Distorted sound. ------------------------------ Item four is jack2 vanilla distro, run like this: jack_control start jack_control ds dummy jack_control dps rate 48000 jack_control dps nperiods 2 jack_control dps period 32 jack_control dps inchannels 2 jack_control dps outchannels 2 jack_control eps realtime true jack_control eps realtime-priority 50 jack_control eps clock-source 1 schedtool -R -p 50 -e /usr/bin/a2jmidid schedtool -R -p 50 -e /usr/local/bin/zita-j2a -d hw:SB 2ms reported latency. Loadless usage 3.8 to 4.3%. With triple test load (three Yoshimis which is actually SOP for this rig), 4.5-5.5% at silence. No xruns. Wonderful sound, and no xruns with that triple load being pushed. Will be starting rigorous testing at lower latencies soon, but I have an instrument which has to sing first :-) Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Apr 17 02:11:09 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 04:11:09 +0200 Subject: [LAU] jack2 vs. jack1/zita vs. jack2+zita-a2j, performance differences In-Reply-To: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> References: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <1397700669.13149.120.camel@archlinux> So you are only using Linux as a synth? Comparing of performance/used resources becomes interesting, if you care about complete MIDI/HDD recording productions, taking care if there is no MIDI jitter, if the sound isn't muddy. E.g. what kind of PADsynth interpolation do you use for your Yoshimi instances? IMO the kind of tests you're doing are meaningless, resp. you at least need to provide more information about your setup. Regards, Ralf From gheskett at wdtv.com Thu Apr 17 02:11:51 2014 From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 22:11:51 -0400 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <534F2B37.5090609@gmail.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <201404160920.51723.gheskett@wdtv.com> <534F2B37.5090609@gmail.com> Message-ID: <201404162211.51170.gheskett@wdtv.com> On Wednesday 16 April 2014 21:57:21 Simon Wise did opine: > On 16/04/14 23:20, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Wednesday 16 April 2014 09:09:06 Simon Wise did opine: > >> I was shown a rather nice artwork that used high resolution radar > >> (resolutions around 1 centimetre I think) to get positions (it was > >> made in a university robotics department that had such things!). The > >> way those work is very interesting ... the frequencies are way to > >> high to digitise, so the electronics has to be all analogue ... the > >> 'circuitry' is basically plumbing ... gold lined tubes and chambers > >> using resonances and such to measure delays and phase differences. > >> At those frequencies the speed of light becomes a dominant > >> consideration. > > > > We have a gismo thats basically much simpler than all that plumbing, > > to use when checking a cable for damage, called a Time Domain > > Reflectometer. The pro versions using a tunnel diode switch as a > > pulse generator, can tell you theres a bullethole in the line 883.6' > > out from where you are hooked up. I've made homemade versions using a > > pulse generator and a fast oscilloscope to measure the echo delay, > > punched some buttons on a good calculator and then told the tower > > crew where to open it up and replace a burned up connector bullet > > and/or the teflon disk holding it centered in the line. It got the > > job done so I figured it was good enough for the girls I go with. :) > > not at all convinced that a fast oscilloscope, a good calculator and the > wet-ware connecting them are simpler than a bit of machined metal with > gold plating, but certainly re-using existing gadgets beats making new > ones. > Either method requires that the operator have intimate knowledge of the characteristics of the transmission line being measured. That is considerably more important then the cost of the tool, particularly when the results are adequate for the job at hand. When you are off the air, the cash machine is broken, and that was at least 2 days quicker than getting a TDR overnighted from Vegas when the rental check had to be in Vegas before the instrument is pulled off the shelf to send it. A case of time vs money lost. We actually had to pull it apart and clean up about 80 feet below the burnup because the soot from the burnup settles on the disks below it, encouraging the next burnup. Eventually that 40 YO line did get a full rebuild with Andrews new screwed together inners. End of problem, and now its off the air as we moved the tx when we made the digital switchover. So if anyone needs a 450 foot stack of Stainless G5, with a RCA TF3-AL antenna on top of it, with the rebuilt 3.125" lines, talk to me. But your crew will have to take it down & ship it. > > Simon > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user Cheers, Gene -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Apr 17 02:32:28 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 04:32:28 +0200 Subject: [LAU] jack2 vs. jack1/zita vs. jack2+zita-a2j, performance differences In-Reply-To: <1397700669.13149.120.camel@archlinux> References: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> <1397700669.13149.120.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <1397701948.13149.126.camel@archlinux> PS: On Thu, 2014-04-17 at 04:11 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > E.g. what kind of PADsynth interpolation do you use for your Yoshimi > instances? IOW what's not available can't be optimized using an EQ, IOW you need the complete production chain to compare "quality" and "quality" isn't low latency only. "Quality" for my taste does include latency, but also time accuracy (for MIDI it's jitter), sound quality and a sane work-flow. Some unrealistic test-scenarios say big nothing about real usage. From simonzwise at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 02:39:00 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:39:00 +1000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <201404162211.51170.gheskett@wdtv.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <201404160920.51723.gheskett@wdtv.com> <534F2B37.5090609@gmail.com> <201404162211.51170.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: <534F3EC4.4090900@gmail.com> On 17/04/14 12:11, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Wednesday 16 April 2014 21:57:21 Simon Wise did opine: > >> On 16/04/14 23:20, Gene Heskett wrote: >>> On Wednesday 16 April 2014 09:09:06 Simon Wise did opine: >>>> I was shown a rather nice artwork that used high resolution radar >>>> (resolutions around 1 centimetre I think) to get positions (it was >>>> made in a university robotics department that had such things!). The >>>> way those work is very interesting ... the frequencies are way to >>>> high to digitise, so the electronics has to be all analogue ... the >>>> 'circuitry' is basically plumbing ... gold lined tubes and chambers >>>> using resonances and such to measure delays and phase differences. >>>> At those frequencies the speed of light becomes a dominant >>>> consideration. >>> >>> We have a gismo thats basically much simpler than all that plumbing, >>> to use when checking a cable for damage, called a Time Domain >>> Reflectometer. The pro versions using a tunnel diode switch as a >>> pulse generator, can tell you theres a bullethole in the line 883.6' >>> out from where you are hooked up. I've made homemade versions using a >>> pulse generator and a fast oscilloscope to measure the echo delay, >>> punched some buttons on a good calculator and then told the tower >>> crew where to open it up and replace a burned up connector bullet >>> and/or the teflon disk holding it centered in the line. It got the >>> job done so I figured it was good enough for the girls I go with. :) >> >> not at all convinced that a fast oscilloscope, a good calculator and the >> wet-ware connecting them are simpler than a bit of machined metal with >> gold plating, but certainly re-using existing gadgets beats making new >> ones. >> > Either method requires that the operator have intimate knowledge of the > characteristics of the transmission line being measured. That is > considerably more important then the cost of the tool, particularly when > the results are adequate for the job at hand. indeed, it is often so Simon From brummer- at web.de Thu Apr 17 05:57:51 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 07:57:51 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [LAA] Guitarix 0.29.0 released Message-ID: <534F6D5F.5020100@web.de> The Guitarix developers proudly present Guitarix release 0.29.0 For the uninitiated, Guitarix is a tube amplifier simulation for jack, with effect modules and an additional stereo effect chain. Among with a couple changes in the source and some bug-fixes, this relase comes with a couple of new plugs (gx & LV2), were most of them comes from our new Development Member Fedor Uporov. The Simulation plugs been developed with the new Analog Circuit Simulation Toolkit by Andreas Degert. new plugs: * Record Mono/Stereo (gx) * JCM800PRE (Preamp simulation) (gx) * GCB_95 (WahWah simulation) (gx) * Duck Delay Mono/Stereo (gx / LV2) * Reverse Delay (gx) * Graphic EQ (gx / LV2) * Ring Modulator Mono/Stereo (gx) * Plate Reverb (gx) * Panorama Enhancer (gx) * Bass Enhancer (gx) * BarkGraphicEQ (24band LV2) Please refer to our project page for more information: http://guitarix.sourceforge.net/ Download Site: http://sourceforge.net/projects/guitarix/ Forum: http://guitarix.sourceforge.net/forum/ Please consider visiting our forum or leaving a message on guitarix-developer at lists.sourceforge.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-announce mailing list Linux-audio-announce at lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-announce From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Thu Apr 17 06:37:00 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 02:37:00 -0400 Subject: [LAU] jack2 vs. jack1/zita vs. jack2+zita-a2j, performance differences In-Reply-To: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> References: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 9:53 PM, Jonathan E. Brickman wrote: > Thought the below might be of interest to some. The last is the best :-) > Hardware and clients identical, octo 4GHz, test load is one yoshimi with > jack_keyboard driving by way of a passthrough mididings. > > ------------------------------- > > Item two is jack1-git, compiled with Zita libraries engaged, run like this: > > nohup schedtool -R -p 50 -e /usr/bin/jackd -A SB -R -c h -X alsa_midi -d > dummy -r 48000 -p 32 & > > Reported latency is 2ms. Load-less, usage rating is 1.3% through 29%, > usually hanging in at 1.4% or so. With the test load, it sits at 31.2% at > silence. No xruns. But no actual sound came out :-) > Why are you using schedtool to run jackd ? In addition, I don't understand what this test is supposed to do. Why would you run jackd on the dummy device while using the zita bridge(s) to access an actual device? There is also no need to specify -R to jackd since it is the default. Where would you expect sound to come from? What is connected to the ports represented by the zita bridges? DSP load variance between1.3% and 29% under static conditions indicate problems with the setup. The value will never be precisely static but it should not vary by this much. Running 3 yoshimi instances at once is specifically a good test for the multi-processor abilities of jack2, since it can run them all in parallel (which jack1 does not do). It is one of the scenarios in which jack2's capabilities in this area are a real benefit. I really don't understand the goal here. Why not just run jack -d alsa -d hw:SB -r 48000 -p 32 ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From looplog at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 07:11:29 2014 From: looplog at gmail.com (michael noble) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 16:11:29 +0900 Subject: [LAU] jack2 vs. jack1/zita vs. jack2+zita-a2j, performance differences In-Reply-To: References: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > I really don't understand the goal here. I'm guessing the goal is to see if better performance in driving softsynths can be obtained by using zita-j2a to handle output rather than using jack directly interfacing with Alsa. I don't think it was intended to be a jack1/jack2 match off. To me it seems like an interesting experiment, and I hope Jonathan keeps up the tests, despite the so far only negative feedback. One of the fun things about being an ignorant user is to sometimes try stuff out just for the heck of it and find things even the original creator of something didn't intend. If people only followed rules, entire genres of music wouldn't likely exist, so I say bring on the experimentation. Which is not to say the tests can't be improved. Apart from criticisms already raised, from my limited knowledge it seems to essentially be comparing full-duplex performance of the jack alsa backend with single duplex performance of zita-j2a, which hardly seems fair. Another question I have is to whether zita is adding latency in addition to that reported by jack, which the tests don't seem to indicate. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Thu Apr 17 07:43:12 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 03:43:12 -0400 Subject: [LAU] jack2 vs. jack1/zita vs. jack2+zita-a2j, performance differences In-Reply-To: References: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 3:11 AM, michael noble wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 3:37 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > >> I really don't understand the goal here. > > > I'm guessing the goal is to see if better performance in driving > softsynths can be obtained by using zita-j2a to handle output rather than > using jack directly interfacing with Alsa. I don't think it was intended to > be a jack1/jack2 match off. To me it seems like an interesting experiment, > and I hope Jonathan keeps up the tests, despite the so far only negative > feedback. > > One of the fun things about being an ignorant user is to sometimes try > stuff out just for the heck of it and find things even the original creator > of something didn't intend. If people only followed rules, entire genres of > music wouldn't likely exist, so I say bring on the experimentation. > absolutely agreed. > > Which is not to say the tests can't be improved. Apart from criticisms > already raised, from my limited knowledge it seems to essentially be > comparing full-duplex performance of the jack alsa backend with single > duplex performance of zita-j2a, which hardly seems fair. Another question I > have is to whether zita is adding latency in addition to that reported by > jack, which the tests don't seem to indicate. > the zita internal client in jack1 can be configured to any latency settings, but the default (and optimal) setting matches those of the server. so in those tests using -A SB, the bridge follows the server configuration and adds no latency. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 07:54:37 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 09:54:37 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> Message-ID: Yes thanks. For the NON modular way, you don't need that many tools today, knowing that Carla hosts all plugin formats. With Non-Session-Manager you've everything in one session folder, just like in a DAW. Non-Timeline is reliable imo, you won't loose data with it. Too bad non-sequencer is not finished today and offers only a pattern based solution. Qtractor, Ardour, AMS, Zynaddsubfx, Carla etc. has NSM support. But you didn't choose Qtractor or Ardour either ... On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 11:42 PM, Atte wrote: > On 04/16/2014 10:40 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > >> >> "I'd rather not this turns into critique of specific FLOSS software." >> >> I think it's interesting to know why you end up using Windows software >> on Linux. Critique is not bad imho. >> > > Ok, let me take it from another angle: I'd much prefer FLOSS, if that's > not possible then a linux native commercial solution. So why am I > considering reaper through wine? Because it offers me something that I > found nowhere else. > > 1) I need something that'll work as a "traditional DAW" (real musicians > generating audio tracks) *and* something to work with electronic music. > Could be two different programs, would be nice if it was one. > > 2) I need something that I can rely on. Something that opens up just like > I left it *every time*. > > 3) Although I find it attractive, the linux-way-of-small-tools- > handling-a-small-part-of-a-larger-job doesn't really seem practical in > audio *to me*. I prefer the old-fashion model of a host for different > reasons: Better/tighter integration, one project-file (or project folder) > and simpler/more safe upgrade path. > > 4) I need something that's well rounded (like renoise), but also allows me > to experiment, even go cracy some times. > > As for reaper, I strongly encourage everyone here that hasn't tried it > yet, to spend a few days in it. You might like it, you might hate it, but > you'll sure have broadened your perspective! > > You get seamless timestretch (add marker and move it around to stretch), > most commonly used effects included, recording in any format I ever heard > of, an app taht is very light on the CPU and extremely configurable. And I > just discovered JS, reapers native plugin format; write and debug your own > plugins right from within reaper, took me bout an hour to write something > that emulates renoise B0 (reverse playback) effect. And as a bonus, you get > to choose from *alot* of free and (I'm sorry to say) pretty good vsts. Ever > tried synth1? I hadn't, but wow, what an awesome synth! > > So as I said, I'd love to use FLOSS, I'd even be more than happy to lower > my standards quite a bit. But the comparison is just not fair, at least > from where I sit. Note that I haven't settled on reaper just yet (I did buy > a license, though), and even if I do, I still consider myself a > linux-audio-user. > > Did that answer your question? > > > -- > Atte > > http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From looplog at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 08:23:12 2014 From: looplog at gmail.com (michael noble) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 17:23:12 +0900 Subject: [LAU] jack2 vs. jack1/zita vs. jack2+zita-a2j, performance differences In-Reply-To: References: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > so in those tests using -A SB, the bridge follows the server configuration > and adds no latency. Ah, reading the 0.124.0 release notes it also seems that -A SB is full-duplex, so perhaps a fair comparison after all? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 17 08:26:40 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 22:26:40 -1000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <534E3D30.3080309@gmail.com> <534EF037.6020605@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <534F9040.1010504@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/16/2014 01:33 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > On Wed, 16 Apr 2014, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > >> On 04/16/2014 10:51 PM, Len Ovens wrote: >>> It appears that the USB2 devices have problems with USB3 ports (Like the >>> 1818vsl). >> >> So far I have little issues with my USB2 audio interface (not a 1818VSL) >> and the xhci driver. I've come across that thread too and it seems the >> issue is specific for the 1818VSL. > > It is specific to the Intel Ivy Bridge chipset USB3 implementation. So > if your computer uses a different HW implementation you should be fine. > For example a PCIe card with USB3 ports is ok or a MB that uses > different HW. Intel admits the problem is there but will not fix it and > feels that well written drivers will just ask the USB device for a > resend of the missed packet !!!??? They say that nobody will notice the > missing packet anyway??? I read this to mean "it is in the hardware now > and there is no soft/firmware patch possible." One hopes the 4th gen > chips are better designed. Thats what I am looking to buy. I don't have > a USB2 device to try though. My laptop has a 4-th gen i7 Haswell chip. My USB 1.1 audio card works fine on any of the USB2 or 3 ports. My USB2 Canoscan desktop scanner, on the other hand, doesn't work on either variety of port on this laptop. It works just fine on the USB2 ports on my AMD-based desktop machine (Phenom IIx4 processor and AMD chipset). I found some comments saying the Canon wouldn't work on any USB3 ports, but I also found the closed-source commercial product VueScan which DOES work with the Canoscan on USB3 ports ... I suppose it's all related to the phases of the moon or something. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 17 08:28:30 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 22:28:30 -1000 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <534F90AE.3090602@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/16/2014 11:42 AM, Atte wrote: > On 04/16/2014 10:40 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: >> >> "I'd rather not this turns into critique of specific FLOSS software." >> >> I think it's interesting to know why you end up using Windows software >> on Linux. Critique is not bad imho. > > Ok, let me take it from another angle: I'd much prefer FLOSS, if that's > not possible then a linux native commercial solution. So why am I > considering reaper through wine? Because it offers me something that I > found nowhere else. > > 1) I need something that'll work as a "traditional DAW" (real musicians > generating audio tracks) *and* something to work with electronic music. > Could be two different programs, would be nice if it was one. Rosegarden? Although I wouldn't consider it a full replacement for your "traditional DAW". -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 17 08:50:45 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 22:50:45 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Anyone used a Firewire-to-USB3 or ESATA adapter? In-Reply-To: <201404160906.15573.gheskett@wdtv.com> References: <534E353E.7070303@hawaii.rr.com> <201404160906.15573.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: <534F95E5.2070401@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/16/2014 03:06 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: >> Unfair: There's an Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter! I guess that >> will be enough to keep Firewire alive in the pro audio world. > > Apple owns the patent rights to firewire. Went thru all the motions of > publishing the specs, waited for it to take off, then decided they needed a > per port royalty fee that was more than the hardware cost. Firewire > disappeared almost overnight. > > I have some firewire stuff, a Sony Digital Hi-8 Handy-Cam. But when I > built this machine back in 2008, a quad core phenom on an almost $300 ASUS > motherboard, I had to go find a firewire card to put in it before I could > use kino to take in the camera, edit out the worst of my shakes, and make > dvd's out of it for all the parties involved in that wedding (and a couple > more since). So that tells you that as far as the motherboard makers were > concerned, firewire had priced itself out of the market already 6 years > ago. That they did. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 17 08:53:24 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 22:53:24 -1000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <201404160854.27333.gheskett@wdtv.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <201404160854.27333.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: <534F9684.2000202@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/16/2014 02:54 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Wednesday 16 April 2014 08:44:15 david did opine: > >> On 04/15/2014 03:17 AM, Len Ovens wrote: >>> On Tue, 15 Apr 2014, James Mckernon wrote: >>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Len Ovens wrote: >>>> I would realy like to stay away from having to use a USB or FW >>>> audio IF. In fact I would like to be able to continue to use my >>>> delta 66 for as long as I can before I spend more money :) The >>>> >>>> Thanks for the useful info in your post. Just to be clear on this >>>> part: are >>>> you saying you don't want to switch to USB/FW solely because you want >>>> to keep using your delta 66, or because you have some definite >>>> preference for >>>> PCIe over USB/FW devices? If the latter, I wonder why? >>> >>> USB in audio is limited. Getting clear USB ports interrupt wise is not >>> easy. Audio can not be on a hub or share it's usb with anything else, >>> but many new MB have no mouse or kb port so the USB is already being >>> used for that much. The real reason though, is latency. With the pci >>> the latency can be 1/4 what it can be in USB or FW. That is the >>> lowest seeting jack for USB or FW is 64/2, but I can run the d66 at >>> 16/2 with no problem on a well tuned system. This does make a >>> difference for live work. I know that 64/2 seems like very good >>> latency (it is) but remember that the card then adds another ms in >>> each direction as well as the stage distances on top of that. That is >>> the time it takes the sound to reach my ear after going through the >>> computer as a processor and then through the air to my ear. Maybe >>> that is still not worth worrying about... but even with 30 feet of >>> cord and no digital delay, I can hear the delay from my playing to >>> the sound reaching my ear. >> >> Interesting. What is the difference between speed of sound in air and >> the speed of electricity through a cable? > > Sound is nominally 720 miles per hour. Rather leisurely IOW. > A perfect cable is C speed, 258 times faster. But cable (coaxial) actually > range in speeds between 66% of C for home usable cables, to around 98% of C > for 9" diameter high power broadcast stuff, C being 186,272 miles per > second in a vacuum. Thats 298,035.2 kilometers per second for the metric > folks here. Then running your sound from stage to backhouse sound board back to stage and hearing it through headphones would give no latency at all. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 17 08:56:22 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 22:56:22 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Anyone used a Firewire-to-USB3 or ESATA adapter? In-Reply-To: <534E5171.9090204@ladisch.de> References: <534E353E.7070303@hawaii.rr.com> <534E5171.9090204@ladisch.de> Message-ID: <534F9736.70508@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/15/2014 11:46 PM, Clemens Ladisch wrote: > david wrote: >> there's no Windows 7 device driver for his Firewire PC Card adapter. > > All FireWire controllers use the same driver interface (OHCI), and that > driver ships with Windows. > > If there is a problem, it is with the PC Card controller driver. Hmm, no, that's not what Windows 7 said about his Firewire PC card device. It said he needed to get and install a driver for it. And the vendor of the card said they weren't going to produce a Windows 7 driver for it. >> So I thought, maybe a Firewire<->USB adaptor would work. > > These are completely different protocols; they cannot be mapped to each > other. Yet there are a bunch of connectors that appear to do that, although probably not reliable enough for serious use. >> I see Amazon has a selection: >> >> Firewire to USB >> >> http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A172282%2Ck%3Afirewire%20to%20usb%20adapter > > These do not work (see the reviews) unless your computer also has > a FireWire controller that is connected to the USB jack. > >> Unfair: There's an Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter! > > Thunderbolt is just a PCIe bus. Then why not a Firewire<>ESATA adaptor? -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Thu Apr 17 09:16:29 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 05:16:29 -0400 Subject: [LAU] jack2 vs. jack1/zita vs. jack2+zita-a2j, performance differences In-Reply-To: References: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 4:23 AM, michael noble wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > >> so in those tests using -A SB, the bridge follows the server >> configuration and adds no latency. > > > Ah, reading the 0.124.0 release notes it also seems that -A SB is > full-duplex, so perhaps a fair comparison after all? > -A SB is full duplex. the final test was done with just zita-j2a which is just for playback. so not entirely fair. the correct test with jack1 would be to use -I SoundBlaster:zalsa_out/-dhw:SB which will use the internal zita bridge client for playback only. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fons at linuxaudio.org Thu Apr 17 09:33:53 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 09:33:53 +0000 Subject: [LAU] jack2 vs. jack1/zita vs. jack2+zita-a2j, performance differences In-Reply-To: References: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <20140417093353.GA10890@linuxaudio.org> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 04:11:29PM +0900, michael noble wrote: > Another question I > have is to whether zita is adding latency in addition to that reported by > jack, which the tests don't seem to indicate. Sure it does, for a number of reasons. First, the periods of the Jack backend and the alsa device are not synchronised and this requires buffering. Equal periods are *not* the optimum, on the contrary. Second, in a worst case scenario a2j could run near the end of a cycle and j2a near the start, this again requires buffering. Third, resampling adds latency as well since any output sample depends on 'future' input. The standalone versions of zita-x2y do report the correct latency on their ports (probably the built-ins do it as well). Of course this is not the value reported by tools such as qjackctl, which will just display the theoretical latency of the backend. A configuration using the dummy backend and zita-x2y will always have more latency than one using the same device with the same parameters directly in the backend. The use of schedtool to run either Jack or zita-ajbridge is questionable. Both set scheduling parameters on a per-thread basis, and elevating the priority of the main thread won't make them run better. It could even have an adverse effect if the main thread ends up at higher priority than those that really need it. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From fons at linuxaudio.org Thu Apr 17 09:54:42 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 09:54:42 +0000 Subject: [LAU] jack2 vs. jack1/zita vs. jack2+zita-a2j, performance differences In-Reply-To: References: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <20140417095442.GB10890@linuxaudio.org> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 02:37:00AM -0400, Paul Davis wrote: > I really don't understand the goal here. Why not just run jack -d alsa -d > hw:SB -r 48000 -p 32 ? One reason for using the bridges (reported in private mail by another user) is the ability to switch soundcards without having to stop Jack. According to that user this is really convenient in particular in combination with suspend resume. Which brings me to the real topic. Currently this is not possible with zita-ajbridge, and the reason is that libzita-alsa-pcmi doesn't support suspend/resume. The next update (being tested ATM) will. Then there is one remaining problem. Upon resume, zita-ajbridge detects 'excessive timing errors' and waits for 15 seconds to let the dust settle. This is essentially the same thing that occured with older Jack versions after free- wheeling. The reason is that the DLL is not properly reset after a resume and is using stale information. I had a quick look at the code, and AFAICS a resume is handled entirely within the backend, and the event is not propagated up to the engine. So solving this may require some non-trivial changes. It would actually make sense to have the DLL inside the backend instead of in the engine. The DLL state is coupled quite closely to that of the backend, and the required code is really minimal. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From gheskett at wdtv.com Thu Apr 17 10:13:03 2014 From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 06:13:03 -0400 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <534F9684.2000202@hawaii.rr.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <201404160854.27333.gheskett@wdtv.com> <534F9684.2000202@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <201404170613.03939.gheskett@wdtv.com> On Thursday 17 April 2014 06:09:56 david did opine: > On 04/16/2014 02:54 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Wednesday 16 April 2014 08:44:15 david did opine: > >> On 04/15/2014 03:17 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > >>> On Tue, 15 Apr 2014, James Mckernon wrote: > >>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > >>>> I would realy like to stay away from having to use a USB or > >>>> FW audio IF. In fact I would like to be able to continue to > >>>> use my delta 66 for as long as I can before I spend more > >>>> money :) The > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for the useful info in your post. Just to be clear on this > >>>> part: are > >>>> you saying you don't want to switch to USB/FW solely because you > >>>> want to keep using your delta 66, or because you have some > >>>> definite preference for > >>>> PCIe over USB/FW devices? If the latter, I wonder why? > >>> > >>> USB in audio is limited. Getting clear USB ports interrupt wise is > >>> not easy. Audio can not be on a hub or share it's usb with anything > >>> else, but many new MB have no mouse or kb port so the USB is > >>> already being used for that much. The real reason though, is > >>> latency. With the pci the latency can be 1/4 what it can be in USB > >>> or FW. That is the lowest seeting jack for USB or FW is 64/2, but I > >>> can run the d66 at 16/2 with no problem on a well tuned system. > >>> This does make a difference for live work. I know that 64/2 seems > >>> like very good latency (it is) but remember that the card then adds > >>> another ms in each direction as well as the stage distances on top > >>> of that. That is the time it takes the sound to reach my ear after > >>> going through the computer as a processor and then through the air > >>> to my ear. Maybe that is still not worth worrying about... but even > >>> with 30 feet of cord and no digital delay, I can hear the delay > >>> from my playing to the sound reaching my ear. > >> > >> Interesting. What is the difference between speed of sound in air and > >> the speed of electricity through a cable? > > > > Sound is nominally 720 miles per hour. Rather leisurely IOW. > > A perfect cable is C speed, 258 times faster. But cable (coaxial) > > actually range in speeds between 66% of C for home usable cables, to > > around 98% of C for 9" diameter high power broadcast stuff, C being > > 186,272 miles per second in a vacuum. Thats 298,035.2 kilometers per > > second for the metric folks here. > > Then running your sound from stage to backhouse sound board back to > stage and hearing it through headphones would give no latency at all. For an analogue board, small fraction of a millisecond, for a digital board, anybodies guess. A/D and D/A's are essentially pretty quick, but I'd still put most digital boards above a millisecond. Cheers, Gene -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS From fons at linuxaudio.org Thu Apr 17 10:35:41 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 10:35:41 +0000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <201404170613.03939.gheskett@wdtv.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <201404160854.27333.gheskett@wdtv.com> <534F9684.2000202@hawaii.rr.com> <201404170613.03939.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: <20140417103541.GC10890@linuxaudio.org> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 06:13:03AM -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > For an analogue board, small fraction of a millisecond, for a digital > board, anybodies guess. A/D and D/A's are essentially pretty quick, but I'd > still put most digital boards above a millisecond. It can be less. This is one of the reasons for using 96 kHz. If you let the anti-aliasing filters start to roll off well below the Nyquist rate they can be very short. The latency is essentially inversely proportional to the width of the transition band of the filters. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From carlo.ratm at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 10:37:30 2014 From: carlo.ratm at gmail.com (Carlo Ascani) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:37:30 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Fwd: Music made in Linux - A song from an hobbyst In-Reply-To: References: <1404162049490.5742@freeshell.de> Message-ID: 2014-04-16 20:52 GMT+02:00 F. Silvain : > Did you use a real analogue drum machine or are those sounds from a software > synth? Also what tool did you use for the effect sound? The electronic drums are samples played by hydrogen and processed by plugins (calf mostly). On the second part the real drum mixes with those electronic samples. I used mostly calf plugins (eqs, comps and reverbs), and a couple of effects from guitarix (distorsion and tube screamer) > Thank you again. That's a pleasure to share things with you guys! > ... > > Ta-ta > ---- > Ffanci > * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain -- Carlo Ascani | carlorat.me skype: carloratm -- Carlo Ascani | carlorat.me skype: carloratm From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Thu Apr 17 11:02:20 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kaza Kore) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 11:02:20 +0000 Subject: [LAU] M-Audio MTRACK Message-ID: Looking to buy a new USB audio interface in the next couple of days as am at a place where I will be staying for a little while (some of you may remember my previous post about the cards available on Amazon India as I'm currently travelling.) Well had a look at Ebay and come acros the M-Audio MTRACK. Sure it should be Linux compatible as it claims to be Class Compliant but I have a question about the headphone output which isn't answered specifically in the manual or FAQ. Can anybody confirm whether it is a duplicate of the Main output audio? Or if it is individually configurable at all? I suspect the former, but I have been happily surprised in the past, finding a headphone output to actually be a stereo output of its own, rather than a Master duplicate. Feel this very unlikely in the case but thought I would ask just in case anybody knows (or wants to warn me off for other reasons)... http://www.m-audio.com/images/global/manuals/M-Track_-_User_Guide_-_v1.1.pdf http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MTrack.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeb at ponderworthy.com Thu Apr 17 12:35:12 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E. Brickman) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 05:35:12 -0700 Subject: [LAU] jack2 vs. jack1/zita vs. jack2+zita-a2j, performance differences In-Reply-To: References: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <1456fac5707.5466136383191137513.7265950260226346464@ponderworthy.com> I'm guessing the goal is to see if better performance in driving softsynths can be obtained by using zita-j2a to handle output rather than using jack directly interfacing with Alsa. I don't think it was intended to be a jack1/jack2 match off. To me it seems like an interesting experiment, and I hope Jonathan keeps up the tests, despite the so far only negative feedback. One of the fun things about being an ignorant user is to sometimes try stuff out just for the heck of it and find things even the original creator of something didn't intend. If people only followed rules, entire genres of music wouldn't likely exist, so I say bring on the experimentation. absolutely agreed. And it is very accurate to call me an ignorant user of these tools !!! I do just make lots and lots of guesses, most of them wrong, try to diagnose and learn, and happily (and not unsurprisingly) end up with good working systems :-) I'll try simplex output jack1/Zita fairly soon, unless someone beats me to it! I haven't before simply because simplex has never made a difference for me in either vanilla Jack1 or Jack2, but I have to agree, Zita is enough of a game-changer to warrant such a test. Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clemens at ladisch.de Thu Apr 17 12:40:54 2014 From: clemens at ladisch.de (Clemens Ladisch) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 14:40:54 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Anyone used a Firewire-to-USB3 or ESATA adapter? In-Reply-To: <534F9736.70508@hawaii.rr.com> References: <534E353E.7070303@hawaii.rr.com> <534E5171.9090204@ladisch.de> <534F9736.70508@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <534FCBD6.6020508@ladisch.de> david wrote: > On 04/15/2014 11:46 PM, Clemens Ladisch wrote: >> david wrote: >>> there's no Windows 7 device driver for his Firewire PC Card adapter. >> >> All FireWire controllers use the same driver interface (OHCI), and that >> driver ships with Windows. >> >> If there is a problem, it is with the PC Card controller driver. > > Hmm, no, that's not what Windows 7 said about his Firewire PC card > device. It said he needed to get and install a driver for it. Internally, there's more than one device involved, and the actual FireWire controller is only the last one. What particular device did Windows complain about? >>> So I thought, maybe a Firewire<->USB adaptor would work. >> >> These are completely different protocols; they cannot be mapped to each >> other. > > Yet there are a bunch of connectors that appear to do that, although > probably not reliable enough for serious use. There is partial degree of reliability. Either the port has been constructed to be a FireWire port with a USB jack (where the adapter just maps the pins back), or it doesn't work at all. >>> Unfair: There's an Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter! >> >> Thunderbolt is just a PCIe bus. > > Then why not a Firewire<>ESATA adaptor? Because SATA is a completely different protocol. This could work only with FireWire hard disks. Regards, Clemens From atte at youmail.dk Thu Apr 17 13:05:57 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:05:57 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> On 04/17/2014 09:54 AM, rosea grammostola wrote: > But you didn't choose Qtractor or Ardour either Correct :-) Did you try reaper? -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 13:33:32 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 15:33:32 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> Message-ID: No I didn't. What I see is that NON and Carla are cool, but non-sequencer not ready and not lineair sequencing. Qtractor still lacks JACK Midi and bus routing is strange, Ardour 3 is still a long long wait for proper midi, that's all. :) On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Atte wrote: > On 04/17/2014 09:54 AM, rosea grammostola wrote: > > But you didn't choose Qtractor or Ardour either >> > > Correct :-) > > Did you try reaper? > > > -- > Atte > > http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atte at youmail.dk Thu Apr 17 14:03:57 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 16:03:57 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <534FDF4D.3020602@youmail.dk> On 04/17/2014 03:33 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > No I didn't. Do yourself a favor and try out reaper. The worst that can happen is that I learn something :-) > What I see is that NON and Carla are cool, but > non-sequencer not ready and not lineair sequencing. Qtractor still lacks > JACK Midi and bus routing is strange, Ardour 3 is still a long long wait > for proper midi, that's all. :) Then what are *you* using? -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From linux-audio at alvor.dk Thu Apr 17 14:50:04 2014 From: linux-audio at alvor.dk (Morten H) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 07:50:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] M-Audio Fast Track Pro: unreliable, distorted recording In-Reply-To: <53132417.2040305@parisson.com> References: <20140129024408.GA3961@ordinator> <52EA15A5.8070107@autostatic.com> <20140130141433.GB4676@ordinator> <5307D147.6030509@parisson.com> <53132417.2040305@parisson.com> Message-ID: <1397746204696-90563.post@n7.nabble.com> > yes, try: > CONFIG_USB_DYNAMIC_MINORS is not set > CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND is not set > Guillaume I have searched for a long time for other people who have this problem, and this is the only place I have found an exact description of what I am experiencing: Lewis Pike's problems with his M-Audio Fast Track Pro match mine almost exactly. When I connect the FTP in order to record (just ordinary S16_LE, 48000KHz, stereo), one of three things happen: Either it just works, or I get an accompanying hiss or crackling sound, following the recorded material in intensity, or I just get insane noise that drowns out everything. The three cases occur equally often more or less, but it's hard to tell. In the second case (the one with the crackling sound) I have tried dumping the recorded data to see if I could discover any pattern, and apparently the most and least significant bytes are always equal for all samples. This problem can occur at any time by the way, for example after a couple of successful recordings, suddenly I get one with the crackle problem. This is maybe the most annoying thing, the fact that I can't reconnect the FTP until it works, and then rely on it to continue working. I record with arecord, doing something like this: arecord -D hw:1,1 -d 3 -c 2 -r 48000 -f S16_LE test.wav After reading this thread, I tried loading the usb audio module with modprobe snd_usb_audio vid=0x0763 pid=0x2012 device_setup=0x03 enable=1 nrpacks=1 And then recorded something with arecord -D hw:1,1 -d 3 -c 2 -r 48000 -f S24_3BE -t raw test.raw And I get exactly the same result Lewis Pike described: Sometimes it works, and I get a perfect 24bit recording, and sometimes I just get loud white noise. I have checked the kernel options, but I don't have either CONFIG_USB_DYNAMIC_MINORS, or CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND enabled, though I can't find CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND at all in my kernel. I'm using kernel version 3.12.13 by the way. I really hope somebody can help with this, beause the FTP is completely useless to me as it is. Thanks in advance, Morten H?jer Denmark -- View this message in context: http://linux-audio.4202.n7.nabble.com/M-Audio-Fast-Track-Pro-unreliable-distorted-recording-tp89125p90563.html Sent from the linux-audio-user mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 15:34:39 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 17:34:39 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534FDF4D.3020602@youmail.dk> References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> <534FDF4D.3020602@youmail.dk> Message-ID: I love the idea of FLOSS software, especially for creative work like music. Most of the time I just do small pieces of music, to experiment and to test the software. One of my dreams is to compose music and I hope I'll be able to use Floss software then. I'm enthusiastic and idealistic about Floss software, Bitwig is nice, but I miss the idealistic feeling comparing to when I use NON :) Atm I try to focus on acoustic instruments, playing (double)bass in two bands now and I realize that I've still a lot to learn when it comes to music. Reaper via Wine, is almost against my Floss & technical principles ... I still believe in Floss software, if the devs could care more about the finishing touch and fluent integration between tools which makes a product really useful. I probably should blame myself for not giving up hope already ;) With Ardour3, NON, NSM, Carla, Radium, Supercollider, we should have enough tools to be able to produce music with Floss software right? But yeah, the difference is that a commercial tool like Bitwig gives you a more or less 'ready-to-go-product' whereas with Floss linuxaudio software you've to jump from workaround to workaround. But I don't give up hope yet! :) I'll give Reaper a shot, just to know what I can do with it. On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 4:03 PM, Atte wrote: > On 04/17/2014 03:33 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > >> No I didn't. >> > > Do yourself a favor and try out reaper. The worst that can happen is that > I learn something :-) > > > > What I see is that NON and Carla are cool, but >> non-sequencer not ready and not lineair sequencing. Qtractor still lacks >> JACK Midi and bus routing is strange, Ardour 3 is still a long long wait >> for proper midi, that's all. :) >> > > Then what are *you* using? > > > -- > Atte > > http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atte at youmail.dk Thu Apr 17 16:34:23 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:34:23 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> <534FDF4D.3020602@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <5350028F.9080409@youmail.dk> On 04/17/2014 05:34 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > Reaper via Wine, is almost against my Floss & technical principles Same here, with an emphasis on *almost*... > I'll give Reaper a shot, just to know what I can do with it. Do that! -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From idragosani at gmail.com Thu Apr 17 16:53:40 2014 From: idragosani at gmail.com (Brett McCoy) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:53:40 -0400 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net> <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> <534FDF4D.3020602@youmail.dk> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 11:34 AM, rosea grammostola < rosea.grammostola at gmail.com> wrote: > > With Ardour3, NON, NSM, Carla, Radium, Supercollider, we should have > enough tools to be able to produce music with Floss software right? But > yeah, the difference is that a commercial tool like Bitwig gives you a more > or less 'ready-to-go-product' whereas with Floss linuxaudio software you've > to jump from workaround to workaround. But I don't give up hope yet! :) > I don't know... Maybe it depends on the kind of music you are doing. I've been using Ardour2/3 (and Rosegarden, previously) for years to produce various symphonic scores and heavy metal recordings, among other things, without resorting to workarounds. The only thing I am missing on Linux are good orchestral sample sets (I have to use Windows for that, on a separate machine). There are some free ones but they just don't compare to what is available commercially. It's not a failing of Linux, though, it's a failing of producers who don't release for Linux. If Kontakt ever gets released on Linux, I will be dropping Windows in a heartbeat. FWIW, I like Reaper, too. I use it on Windows to host VST samplers like Kontakt or EWQL Play. As a recording & mixing environment, though, I far prefer Ardour (and Mixbus). -- Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world." -- Jelaleddin Rumi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lau at dadacafe.org Thu Apr 17 17:53:57 2014 From: lau at dadacafe.org (Tilo Kremer) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 19:53:57 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> <534FDF4D.3020602@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <53501535.90700@dadacafe.org> Hello, On 04/17/2014 05:34 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > I love the idea of FLOSS software, especially for creative work like music. > Most of the time I just do small pieces of music, to experiment and to test > the software. One of my dreams is to compose music and I hope I'll be able > to use Floss software then. I'm enthusiastic and idealistic about Floss > software, Bitwig is nice, but I miss the idealistic feeling comparing to > when I use NON :) Atm I try to focus on acoustic instruments, playing > (double)bass in two bands now and I realize that I've still a lot to learn > when it comes to music. I dreamt that dream 20 years ago, and while the oss software ecosystem has since vastly improved it still was not fitting the bill for me. I started to use a commercial midi daw which was included with a hardware mixer i bought, and soon after ditched most software altogether in favour of real (DIY and off-the-shelf) hardware. I still use pure data though. Bitwig looks interesting and i might give it a shot again when i won't have to code javascript to get my hardware connected. > Reaper via Wine, is almost against my Floss & technical principles ... I > still believe in Floss software, if the devs could care more about the > finishing touch and fluent integration between tools which makes a product > really useful. I probably should blame myself for not giving up hope > already ;) I wasn't so lucky getting emulated audio software to run well enough, and meanwhile would advise to not wasting time blaming, just use what works for you :) > from workaround to workaround. But I don't give up hope yet! :) the hope is still there, but being a diehard open source advocate was not very helpful to get me going musically. my 2cts, Tee From hanswil at notam02.no Thu Apr 17 19:58:01 2014 From: hanswil at notam02.no (Hans Wilmers) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 21:58:01 +0200 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <201404160854.27333.gheskett@wdtv.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <201404160854.27333.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: <53503249.3010002@notam02.no> On 04/16/2014 02:54 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: > > Sound is nominally 720 miles per hour. Rather leisurely IOW. > A perfect cable is C speed, 258 times faster. But cable (coaxial) actually > range in speeds between 66% of C for home usable cables, to around 98% of C > for 9" diameter high power broadcast stuff, C being 186,272 miles per > second in a vacuum. Thats 298,035.2 kilometers per second for the metric > folks here. > Just a tiny comment to the speed ratio: There is a missing factor seconds/hour. Light is travelling in the magnitude of one million faster than sound in air. / Hans From len at ovenwerks.net Thu Apr 17 19:53:17 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:53:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <534F954B.2070205@hawaii.rr.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <534F954B.2070205@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2014, david wrote: > On 04/16/2014 03:17 AM, Len Ovens wrote: >> I was talking about through air. I can only play as fast as I can hear >> and at thirty feet or so from the sound source, my instrument sounds >> delayed from the rest of the band because I hear their sound that much >> later and play my part that much later. I don't normally play at that >> distance, but ten feet is pretty standard. > > You're a few orders of magnitude better than me! I don't think I'd notice > that much difference. I used to play and try to adjust sound while practicing, so I had 50 feet or so of cable. By the time I got to the sound board it was getting hard to play. > I use headphone monitor. I find monitoring with headphones when playing bass is hard. I use a small amp tilted back about 10 feet ahead of me... so 13-14 feet to my ear I guess. Bass needs some space to work. My amp just gives me enough for me and the board can add whatever they want to the mains. I go a bit heavy on the high end for my monitor and the mains can roll that off for house sound. > That's my understanding, too. Things like staying away from USB mice and > keyboards, making sure the USB audio is the only device on that bus, yah? On that irq... same for pci(e) really even prioritizing shared irqs, lone irqs are still best. >> However, it looks like I can still get lots of MB with PCI slots in >> them. I will probaly do that. Hopefully with three PCI slots I can get >> one that is irq clean. > > My desktop has 2 PCIe slots; the other 4 are PCI. It also has 4 USB ports + > 2 more USB connector points on the mobo, 4 SATA connectors, an EIDE > connector, a floppy connector, plus the built-in audio and video and > Ethernet. I haven't checked to see what's sharing interrupts and what isn't. > I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't a bunch of shared interrupts! cat /proc/interrupts will tell you that quick enough. For some reason a lot of MB share irq16 with 3 or 4 things... worse one of those tings is often one of the PCI(e) slots. No need really as most modern MB have access to 48 plus irqs. My old board has 24 but 2-7 are unused (for hysterical reasons?) and 10 and 13 seem to be skipped too. I think 20 goes to my internal audio which I have turned off (AC97) so it doesn't show. I have noticed that on any of the MB I have checked or seen irq maps for that the internal audio always has it's own irq and quite often it is the highest one which in most systems these days has the most priority. I found this out because I had the card I was using for midi in the higher of the two slots and my audio below. I had trouble with xruns on the audio, but when I put the audio on the higher irq I had no more trouble. I know that in theory that shouldn't happen because there are two part to the irq drivers, a stub to answer the IRQ and save enough info to work and the other part that the os prioritizes and does all the work. So the os should be able to prioritize by the module name. I just know what I have found works best. I have heard the words "in a modern system" too many times. I think any system can do better audio if it is tuned/tweaked. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From len at ovenwerks.net Thu Apr 17 19:56:37 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 12:56:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <534F9684.2000202@hawaii.rr.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <201404160854.27333.gheskett@wdtv.com> <534F9684.2000202@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Apr 2014, david wrote: > Then running your sound from stage to backhouse sound board back to stage > and hearing it through headphones would give no latency at all. Nothing I can hear. This is very important becasue if there was noticable delay then stage sound would be ahead of the mains... might give some interesting filtering from being out of phase. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 17 20:17:55 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 10:17:55 -1000 Subject: [LAU] M-Audio Fast Track Pro: unreliable, distorted recording In-Reply-To: <1397746204696-90563.post@n7.nabble.com> References: <20140129024408.GA3961@ordinator> <52EA15A5.8070107@autostatic.com> <20140130141433.GB4676@ordinator> <5307D147.6030509@parisson.com> <53132417.2040305@parisson.com> <1397746204696-90563.post@n7.nabble.com> Message-ID: <535036F3.2020906@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/17/2014 04:50 AM, Morten H wrote: >> yes, try: >> CONFIG_USB_DYNAMIC_MINORS is not set >> CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND is not set >> Guillaume > > I have searched for a long time for other people who have this problem, and > this is the only place I have found an exact description of what I am > experiencing: > > Lewis Pike's problems with his M-Audio Fast Track Pro match mine almost > exactly. > > When I connect the FTP in order to record (just ordinary S16_LE, 48000KHz, > stereo), one of three things happen: Either it just works, or I get an > accompanying hiss or crackling sound, following the recorded material in > intensity, or I just get insane noise that drowns out everything. The three > cases occur equally often more or less, but it's hard to tell. > > In the second case (the one with the crackling sound) I have tried dumping > the recorded data to see if I could discover any pattern, and apparently the > most and least significant bytes are always equal for all samples. This > problem can occur at any time by the way, for example after a couple of > successful recordings, suddenly I get one with the crackle problem. This is > maybe the most annoying thing, the fact that I can't reconnect the FTP until > it works, and then rely on it to continue working. > > I record with arecord, doing something like this: arecord -D hw:1,1 -d 3 -c > 2 -r 48000 -f S16_LE test.wav > > After reading this thread, I tried loading the usb audio module with > modprobe snd_usb_audio vid=0x0763 pid=0x2012 device_setup=0x03 enable=1 > nrpacks=1 > > And then recorded something with arecord -D hw:1,1 -d 3 -c 2 -r 48000 -f > S24_3BE -t raw test.raw > > And I get exactly the same result Lewis Pike described: Sometimes it works, > and I get a perfect 24bit recording, and sometimes I just get loud white > noise. > > I have checked the kernel options, but I don't have either > CONFIG_USB_DYNAMIC_MINORS, or CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND enabled, though I can't > find CONFIG_USB_SUSPEND at all in my kernel. I'm using kernel version > 3.12.13 by the way. > > I really hope somebody can help with this, beause the FTP is completely > useless to me as it is. > > Thanks in advance, > Morten H?jer > Denmark Have you eliminated the possibility of intermittent hardware issues with the FTP? The symptoms suggest that to me. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 17 20:22:17 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 10:22:17 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Anyone used a Firewire-to-USB3 or ESATA adapter? In-Reply-To: <534FCBD6.6020508@ladisch.de> References: <534E353E.7070303@hawaii.rr.com> <534E5171.9090204@ladisch.de> <534F9736.70508@hawaii.rr.com> <534FCBD6.6020508@ladisch.de> Message-ID: <535037F9.2040309@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/17/2014 02:40 AM, Clemens Ladisch wrote: > david wrote: >> On 04/15/2014 11:46 PM, Clemens Ladisch wrote: >>> david wrote: >>>> there's no Windows 7 device driver for his Firewire PC Card adapter. >>> >>> All FireWire controllers use the same driver interface (OHCI), and that >>> driver ships with Windows. >>> >>> If there is a problem, it is with the PC Card controller driver. >> >> Hmm, no, that's not what Windows 7 said about his Firewire PC card >> device. It said he needed to get and install a driver for it. > > Internally, there's more than one device involved, and the actual > FireWire controller is only the last one. What particular device did > Windows complain about? I don't remember specifically now. That was well over a year ago. >>>> So I thought, maybe a Firewire<->USB adaptor would work. >>> >>> These are completely different protocols; they cannot be mapped to each >>> other. >> >> Yet there are a bunch of connectors that appear to do that, although >> probably not reliable enough for serious use. > > There is partial degree of reliability. Either the port has been > constructed to be a FireWire port with a USB jack (where the adapter > just maps the pins back), or it doesn't work at all. I noticed that most of the comments where they worked involved video cameras or storage devices, not audio devices. >>>> Unfair: There's an Apple Thunderbolt to FireWire Adapter! >>> >>> Thunderbolt is just a PCIe bus. >> >> Then why not a Firewire<>ESATA adaptor? > > Because SATA is a completely different protocol. This could work only > with FireWire hard disks. Thanks. Didn't know SATA/ESATA was limited to storage devices; thought it was more flexible. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 17 20:24:23 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 10:24:23 -1000 Subject: [LAU] jack2 vs. jack1/zita vs. jack2+zita-a2j, performance differences In-Reply-To: <1456fac5707.5466136383191137513.7265950260226346464@ponderworthy.com> References: <1456d2e37a9.-5305129809514735439.-5998594004799034532@ponderworthy.com> <1456fac5707.5466136383191137513.7265950260226346464@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <53503877.2090902@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/17/2014 02:35 AM, Jonathan E. Brickman wrote: > > I'm guessing the goal is to see if better performance in driving > softsynths can be obtained by using zita-j2a to handle output > rather than using jack directly interfacing with Alsa. I don't > think it was intended to be a jack1/jack2 match off. To me it > seems like an interesting experiment, and I hope Jonathan keeps > up the tests, despite the so far only negative feedback. > > One of the fun things about being an ignorant user is to > sometimes try stuff out just for the heck of it and find things > even the original creator of something didn't intend. If people > only followed rules, entire genres of music wouldn't likely > exist, so I say bring on the experimentation. > > > absolutely agreed. > > > And it is very accurate to call me an ignorant user of these tools !!! > I do just make lots and lots of guesses, most of them wrong, try to > diagnose and learn, and happily (and not unsurprisingly) end up with > good working systems :-) > > I'll try simplex output jack1/Zita fairly soon, unless someone beats me > to it! I haven't before simply because simplex has never made a > difference for me in either vanilla Jack1 or Jack2, but I have to agree, > Zita is enough of a game-changer to warrant such a test. It might be worth it. My UCA202 running on my old Celeron based laptop couldn't do duplex at all; both audio signals were noisy and low-volume. On my i7 laptop, it does duplex just fine. Using JACK2 in both cases. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 17 20:41:44 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 10:41:44 -1000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <201404170613.03939.gheskett@wdtv.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <201404160854.27333.gheskett@wdtv.com> <534F9684.2000202@hawaii.rr.com> <201404170613.03939.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: <53503C88.6030603@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/17/2014 12:13 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Thursday 17 April 2014 06:09:56 david did opine: > >> On 04/16/2014 02:54 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: >>> On Wednesday 16 April 2014 08:44:15 david did opine: >>>> On 04/15/2014 03:17 AM, Len Ovens wrote: >>>>> On Tue, 15 Apr 2014, James Mckernon wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Len Ovens > wrote: >>>>>> I would realy like to stay away from having to use a USB or >>>>>> FW audio IF. In fact I would like to be able to continue to >>>>>> use my delta 66 for as long as I can before I spend more >>>>>> money :) The >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the useful info in your post. Just to be clear on this >>>>>> part: are >>>>>> you saying you don't want to switch to USB/FW solely because you >>>>>> want to keep using your delta 66, or because you have some >>>>>> definite preference for >>>>>> PCIe over USB/FW devices? If the latter, I wonder why? >>>>> >>>>> USB in audio is limited. Getting clear USB ports interrupt wise is >>>>> not easy. Audio can not be on a hub or share it's usb with anything >>>>> else, but many new MB have no mouse or kb port so the USB is >>>>> already being used for that much. The real reason though, is >>>>> latency. With the pci the latency can be 1/4 what it can be in USB >>>>> or FW. That is the lowest seeting jack for USB or FW is 64/2, but I >>>>> can run the d66 at 16/2 with no problem on a well tuned system. >>>>> This does make a difference for live work. I know that 64/2 seems >>>>> like very good latency (it is) but remember that the card then adds >>>>> another ms in each direction as well as the stage distances on top >>>>> of that. That is the time it takes the sound to reach my ear after >>>>> going through the computer as a processor and then through the air >>>>> to my ear. Maybe that is still not worth worrying about... but even >>>>> with 30 feet of cord and no digital delay, I can hear the delay >>>>> from my playing to the sound reaching my ear. >>>> >>>> Interesting. What is the difference between speed of sound in air and >>>> the speed of electricity through a cable? >>> >>> Sound is nominally 720 miles per hour. Rather leisurely IOW. >>> A perfect cable is C speed, 258 times faster. But cable (coaxial) >>> actually range in speeds between 66% of C for home usable cables, to >>> around 98% of C for 9" diameter high power broadcast stuff, C being >>> 186,272 miles per second in a vacuum. Thats 298,035.2 kilometers per >>> second for the metric folks here. >> >> Then running your sound from stage to backhouse sound board back to >> stage and hearing it through headphones would give no latency at all. > > For an analogue board, small fraction of a millisecond, for a digital > board, anybodies guess. A/D and D/A's are essentially pretty quick, but I'd > still put most digital boards above a millisecond. That's interesting. We're looking into replacing the analog board with a digital one. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From len at ovenwerks.net Thu Apr 17 20:39:53 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <53503BAB.1060008@hawaii.rr.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <201404160854.27333.gheskett@wdtv.com> <534F9684.2000202@hawaii.rr.com> <53503BAB.1060008@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Apr 2014, david wrote: > On 04/17/2014 09:56 AM, Len Ovens wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, 16 Apr 2014, david wrote: >> >>> Then running your sound from stage to backhouse sound board back to >>> stage and hearing it through headphones would give no latency at all. >> >> Nothing I can hear. This is very important becasue if there was >> noticable delay then stage sound would be ahead of the mains... might >> give some interesting filtering from being out of phase. > > The mains are getting their signal via cable, so they're getting their > signal as quickly as the monitors on stage. The only change would be > physical distance from the different speakers, right? The difference I was thinking of is between a DIed guitar amp and mains as these and the bass amp (sometimes KB too) have traditionally been faced towards the audience. We also have some pretty loud vocalists who's unamplified voice can be heard in the house. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From gheskett at wdtv.com Thu Apr 17 22:16:16 2014 From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:16:16 -0400 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <53503249.3010002@notam02.no> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <201404160854.27333.gheskett@wdtv.com> <53503249.3010002@notam02.no> Message-ID: <201404171816.16158.gheskett@wdtv.com> On Thursday 17 April 2014 18:12:12 Hans Wilmers did opine: > On 04/16/2014 02:54 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: > > Sound is nominally 720 miles per hour. Rather leisurely IOW. > > A perfect cable is C speed, 258 times faster. But cable (coaxial) > > actually range in speeds between 66% of C for home usable cables, to > > around 98% of C for 9" diameter high power broadcast stuff, C being > > 186,272 miles per second in a vacuum. Thats 298,035.2 kilometers per > > second for the metric folks here. > > Just a tiny comment to the speed ratio: There is a missing factor > seconds/hour. Light is travelling in the magnitude of one million faster > than sound in air. > Gack! I hate it when I miss the obvious stuffs. So 258 or 259 *3600 for the speed ratio in round figures. Round figures light is 930,600 times faster than sound. Definitely my bad. Open reply, insert foot fresh from mouth. Duh! > / Hans > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user Cheers, Gene -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS From gheskett at wdtv.com Thu Apr 17 22:37:11 2014 From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:37:11 -0400 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <53503C88.6030603@hawaii.rr.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <201404170613.03939.gheskett@wdtv.com> <53503C88.6030603@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <201404171837.11237.gheskett@wdtv.com> On Thursday 17 April 2014 18:18:05 david did opine: > On 04/17/2014 12:13 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > > On Thursday 17 April 2014 06:09:56 david did opine: > >> On 04/16/2014 02:54 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: > >>> On Wednesday 16 April 2014 08:44:15 david did opine: > >>>> On 04/15/2014 03:17 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > >>>>> On Tue, 15 Apr 2014, James Mckernon wrote: > >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Len Ovens > > > > wrote: > >>>>>> I would realy like to stay away from having to use a USB > >>>>>> or FW audio IF. In fact I would like to be able to > >>>>>> continue to use my delta 66 for as long as I can before > >>>>>> I spend more money :) The > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thanks for the useful info in your post. Just to be clear on this > >>>>>> part: are > >>>>>> you saying you don't want to switch to USB/FW solely because you > >>>>>> want to keep using your delta 66, or because you have some > >>>>>> definite preference for > >>>>>> PCIe over USB/FW devices? If the latter, I wonder why? > >>>>> > >>>>> USB in audio is limited. Getting clear USB ports interrupt wise is > >>>>> not easy. Audio can not be on a hub or share it's usb with > >>>>> anything else, but many new MB have no mouse or kb port so the > >>>>> USB is already being used for that much. The real reason though, > >>>>> is latency. With the pci the latency can be 1/4 what it can be in > >>>>> USB or FW. That is the lowest seeting jack for USB or FW is 64/2, > >>>>> but I can run the d66 at 16/2 with no problem on a well tuned > >>>>> system. This does make a difference for live work. I know that > >>>>> 64/2 seems like very good latency (it is) but remember that the > >>>>> card then adds another ms in each direction as well as the stage > >>>>> distances on top of that. That is the time it takes the sound to > >>>>> reach my ear after going through the computer as a processor and > >>>>> then through the air to my ear. Maybe that is still not worth > >>>>> worrying about... but even with 30 feet of cord and no digital > >>>>> delay, I can hear the delay from my playing to the sound reaching > >>>>> my ear. > >>>> > >>>> Interesting. What is the difference between speed of sound in air > >>>> and the speed of electricity through a cable? > >>> > >>> Sound is nominally 720 miles per hour. Rather leisurely IOW. > >>> A perfect cable is C speed, 258 times faster. But cable (coaxial) > >>> actually range in speeds between 66% of C for home usable cables, to > >>> around 98% of C for 9" diameter high power broadcast stuff, C being > >>> 186,272 miles per second in a vacuum. Thats 298,035.2 kilometers > >>> per second for the metric folks here. > >> > >> Then running your sound from stage to backhouse sound board back to > >> stage and hearing it through headphones would give no latency at all. > > > > For an analogue board, small fraction of a millisecond, for a digital > > board, anybodies guess. A/D and D/A's are essentially pretty quick, > > but I'd still put most digital boards above a millisecond. > > That's interesting. We're looking into replacing the analog board with a > digital one. We replaced an old 12 stereo channel 48 input logitek analog board, couldn't keep ahead of replacing the CDS channel switches in it because it was full of 5532's and even with added fans, their life in that heat was about a year, with a 24 input Macky(SP?). Digital, programmable motorized gain pots, very low noise. But we had to shut the studio monitors off, the delay had our talent stumbling over their own shoelaces trying to read the teleprompter. I didn't have a way to measure it, other than a dual trace scope and hand claps which said 16 to 17 ms, but I'd have guessed around 20. Knowing what to expect, I still couldn't read the opening paragraph of a tv technology article without stumbling lots of times if the monitor was loud enough to sound like an echo. The TD can still talk in their ear, but no backfeed goes out that circuit, its killed when the mics go live. We have an even newer board now, 48 stereo wide SMPTE out, and I believe its considerable faster than the Macky was, but I don't think the studio monitors are used for anything but talkback during commercials yet. I've been retired since mid 2002, and haven't really tracked that stuff 100% since. Cheers, Gene -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Apr 17 23:35:53 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 13:35:53 -1000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <201404160854.27333.gheskett@wdtv.com> <534F9684.2000202@hawaii.rr.com> <53503BAB.1060008@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <53506559.8090602@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/17/2014 10:39 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Apr 2014, david wrote: > >> On 04/17/2014 09:56 AM, Len Ovens wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 16 Apr 2014, david wrote: >>> >>>> Then running your sound from stage to backhouse sound board back to >>>> stage and hearing it through headphones would give no latency at all. >>> >>> Nothing I can hear. This is very important becasue if there was >>> noticable delay then stage sound would be ahead of the mains... might >>> give some interesting filtering from being out of phase. >> >> The mains are getting their signal via cable, so they're getting their >> signal as quickly as the monitors on stage. The only change would be >> physical distance from the different speakers, right? > > The difference I was thinking of is between a DIed guitar amp and mains > as these and the bass amp (sometimes KB too) have traditionally been > faced towards the audience. Yah. Only our bassist occasionally uses an amp. Everyone else hears things thru the stage monitors or headphones. Reminds me of my days with 400w RMS bass amp right behind me when I was playing bass. I do miss that feeling! > We also have some pretty loud vocalists > who's unamplified voice can be heard in the house. We had a guest singer one time. She had sung professionally in stage musicals. Even without a mic, she matched the whole band in volume when she really let go! And one of our older sopranos (who had also sung professionaly, ages ago) used to be able to cut through anything, with or without mic. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From linux-audio at alvor.dk Fri Apr 18 01:04:51 2014 From: linux-audio at alvor.dk (Morten H) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:04:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] M-Audio Fast Track Pro: unreliable, distorted recording In-Reply-To: <535036F3.2020906@hawaii.rr.com> References: <20140129024408.GA3961@ordinator> <52EA15A5.8070107@autostatic.com> <20140130141433.GB4676@ordinator> <5307D147.6030509@parisson.com> <53132417.2040305@parisson.com> <1397746204696-90563.post@n7.nabble.com> <535036F3.2020906@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <1397783091625-90580.post@n7.nabble.com> david-602 wrote > Have you eliminated the possibility of intermittent hardware issues with > the FTP? The symptoms suggest that to me. I'm not sure what you mean. If you are suggesting that my FTP may be defective, that is of course a possibility. But firstly the issues I'm having correspond with the issues the original poster had, and secondly it works perfectly in windows with the m-audio driver. These two things put together suggest it is not a hardware problem with my FTP... At least they do to me :-) Morten -- View this message in context: http://linux-audio.4202.n7.nabble.com/M-Audio-Fast-Track-Pro-unreliable-distorted-recording-tp89125p90580.html Sent from the linux-audio-user mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Fri Apr 18 06:22:43 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 20:22:43 -1000 Subject: [LAU] M-Audio Fast Track Pro: unreliable, distorted recording In-Reply-To: <1397783091625-90580.post@n7.nabble.com> References: <20140129024408.GA3961@ordinator> <52EA15A5.8070107@autostatic.com> <20140130141433.GB4676@ordinator> <5307D147.6030509@parisson.com> <53132417.2040305@parisson.com> <1397746204696-90563.post@n7.nabble.com> <535036F3.2020906@hawaii.rr.com> <1397783091625-90580.post@n7.nabble.com> Message-ID: <5350C4B3.20903@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/17/2014 03:04 PM, Morten H wrote: > david-602 wrote >> Have you eliminated the possibility of intermittent hardware issues with >> the FTP? The symptoms suggest that to me. > > I'm not sure what you mean. If you are suggesting that my FTP may be > defective, that is of course a possibility. But firstly the issues I'm > having correspond with the issues the original poster had, and secondly it > works perfectly in windows with the m-audio driver. > > These two things put together suggest it is not a hardware problem with my > FTP... At least they do to me :-) > > Morten Well, intermittent means to me that it's just good enough that it works most of the time, or fails only under special conditions. But sounds like your card's probably OK. (Or there are things the Windows driver does with the hardware that the Linux driver doesn't - control register settings, work around for known-to-vendor-but-not-necessarily-documented quirk, like "Don't set bit 7 of this register".) Not that you have this problem, but I discovered that my powered external USB2 hub induces noise when my USB sound card runs through it. No noise at all when the card is connected directly. Probably my hub (a cheap one) has grounding issues. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Fri Apr 18 06:41:34 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 20:41:34 -1000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <201404171837.11237.gheskett@wdtv.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <201404170613.03939.gheskett@wdtv.com> <53503C88.6030603@hawaii.rr.com> <201404171837.11237.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: <5350C91E.7010208@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/17/2014 12:37 PM, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Thursday 17 April 2014 18:18:05 david did opine: > >> On 04/17/2014 12:13 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: >>> On Thursday 17 April 2014 06:09:56 david did opine: >>>> On 04/16/2014 02:54 AM, Gene Heskett wrote: >>>>> On Wednesday 16 April 2014 08:44:15 david did opine: >>>>>> On 04/15/2014 03:17 AM, Len Ovens wrote: >>>>>>> On Tue, 15 Apr 2014, James Mckernon wrote: >>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 2:06 AM, Len Ovens >>> >>> wrote: >>>>>>>> I would realy like to stay away from having to use a USB >>>>>>>> or FW audio IF. In fact I would like to be able to >>>>>>>> continue to use my delta 66 for as long as I can before >>>>>>>> I spend more money :) The >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for the useful info in your post. Just to be clear on this >>>>>>>> part: are >>>>>>>> you saying you don't want to switch to USB/FW solely because you >>>>>>>> want to keep using your delta 66, or because you have some >>>>>>>> definite preference for >>>>>>>> PCIe over USB/FW devices? If the latter, I wonder why? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> USB in audio is limited. Getting clear USB ports interrupt wise is >>>>>>> not easy. Audio can not be on a hub or share it's usb with >>>>>>> anything else, but many new MB have no mouse or kb port so the >>>>>>> USB is already being used for that much. The real reason though, >>>>>>> is latency. With the pci the latency can be 1/4 what it can be in >>>>>>> USB or FW. That is the lowest seeting jack for USB or FW is 64/2, >>>>>>> but I can run the d66 at 16/2 with no problem on a well tuned >>>>>>> system. This does make a difference for live work. I know that >>>>>>> 64/2 seems like very good latency (it is) but remember that the >>>>>>> card then adds another ms in each direction as well as the stage >>>>>>> distances on top of that. That is the time it takes the sound to >>>>>>> reach my ear after going through the computer as a processor and >>>>>>> then through the air to my ear. Maybe that is still not worth >>>>>>> worrying about... but even with 30 feet of cord and no digital >>>>>>> delay, I can hear the delay from my playing to the sound reaching >>>>>>> my ear. >>>>>> >>>>>> Interesting. What is the difference between speed of sound in air >>>>>> and the speed of electricity through a cable? >>>>> >>>>> Sound is nominally 720 miles per hour. Rather leisurely IOW. >>>>> A perfect cable is C speed, 258 times faster. But cable (coaxial) >>>>> actually range in speeds between 66% of C for home usable cables, to >>>>> around 98% of C for 9" diameter high power broadcast stuff, C being >>>>> 186,272 miles per second in a vacuum. Thats 298,035.2 kilometers >>>>> per second for the metric folks here. >>>> >>>> Then running your sound from stage to backhouse sound board back to >>>> stage and hearing it through headphones would give no latency at all. >>> >>> For an analogue board, small fraction of a millisecond, for a digital >>> board, anybodies guess. A/D and D/A's are essentially pretty quick, >>> but I'd still put most digital boards above a millisecond. >> >> That's interesting. We're looking into replacing the analog board with a >> digital one. > > We replaced an old 12 stereo channel 48 input logitek analog board, > couldn't keep ahead of replacing the CDS channel switches in it because it > was full of 5532's and even with added fans, their life in that heat was > about a year, with a 24 input Macky(SP?). Digital, programmable motorized > gain pots, very low noise. But we had to shut the studio monitors off, the > delay had our talent stumbling over their own shoelaces trying to read the > teleprompter. > > I didn't have a way to measure it, other than a dual trace scope and hand > claps which said 16 to 17 ms, but I'd have guessed around 20. How long a delay is there between an organ note and the return echo in a large cathedral? Much more than the millisecond scale, maybe? Ages ago, we were at a Day on the Green concert in Oakland Coliseum, a baseball field in California. Featured 5 big name rock bands. Stage was set up around and behind home plate. We were on sitting on the grass of the field, behind us was the 2-3 tiers of concrete seating. One of the bands that was playing was Heart; at the time, a key element of their sound was how clean it was. They were the 4th band to play. They got up and played, and their sound was awful because of the enormous echo coming off the concrete behind us. It was almost as loud as they were, but heavily delayed. They went through their show and were probably relieved. The first three bands were just straight loud rock bands, they probably didn't even notice the echo, or thought it was cool because it made things louder. Heart was followed by The Eagles (this was part of their Hotel California tour) with Joe Walsh at the time. They very skillfully integrated the echo into their performance, timing things so the echo sounded like it was part of the music. > Knowing what > to expect, I still couldn't read the opening paragraph of a tv technology > article without stumbling lots of times if the monitor was loud enough to > sound like an echo. The TD can still talk in their ear, but no backfeed > goes out that circuit, its killed when the mics go live. Hmm, I've never tried reading on TV. Worked on-air in a radio station, but that was all headphones, and much smaller physical spaces. > We have an even newer board now, 48 stereo wide SMPTE out, and I believe > its considerable faster than the Macky was, but I don't think the studio > monitors are used for anything but talkback during commercials yet. I've > been retired since mid 2002, and haven't really tracked that stuff 100% > since. Good to leave the work life behind and put your energy into your own life! I transitioned from IT/IS work through systems analyst/business analyst to what I do now, which is manage content and work with enterprise content management systems from the business side. Since we dropped using Windows in our house about 10 years ago, I'm way behind on a lot of Windows things! -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Fri Apr 18 07:08:03 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 21:08:03 -1000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <534F954B.2070205@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <5350CF53.30502@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/17/2014 09:53 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > On Wed, 16 Apr 2014, david wrote: > >> On 04/16/2014 03:17 AM, Len Ovens wrote: >>> I was talking about through air. I can only play as fast as I can hear >>> and at thirty feet or so from the sound source, my instrument sounds >>> delayed from the rest of the band because I hear their sound that much >>> later and play my part that much later. I don't normally play at that >>> distance, but ten feet is pretty standard. >> >> You're a few orders of magnitude better than me! I don't think I'd >> notice that much difference. > > I used to play and try to adjust sound while practicing, so I had 50 > feet or so of cable. By the time I got to the sound board it was getting > hard to play. I think I would, too. When I was playing bass on stage ages ago, I don't think I got more than 20 feet from my amp. I wasn't a singer, so no need. The one point where we needed cable was when the lead guitarist and I would finish one song by somersaulting across the stage while playing. My church band's former music director used to wirelessly hook his guitar into the system, then walk around while we rehearsed so he could hear how things sounded in the auditorium. That was in the days when we could get the place whenever we wanted to set everything up for rehearsal. Our sound tech has gone around with a soundmeter in our new location and fiddled with levels. And if one of us has to miss practice (our rule is you don't get to play that Sunday), we try to sit various places and afterwards talk about how things sounded. >>> However, it looks like I can still get lots of MB with PCI slots in >>> them. I will probaly do that. Hopefully with three PCI slots I can get >>> one that is irq clean. >> >> My desktop has 2 PCIe slots; the other 4 are PCI. It also has 4 USB >> ports + 2 more USB connector points on the mobo, 4 SATA connectors, an >> EIDE connector, a floppy connector, plus the built-in audio and video >> and Ethernet. I haven't checked to see what's sharing interrupts and >> what isn't. I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't a bunch of shared >> interrupts! > > cat /proc/interrupts will tell you that quick enough. For some reason a > lot of MB share irq16 with 3 or 4 things... worse one of those tings is > often one of the PCI(e) slots. No need really as most modern MB have > access to 48 plus irqs. My old board has 24 but 2-7 are unused (for > hysterical reasons?) and 10 and 13 seem to be skipped too. I think 20 > goes to my internal audio which I have turned off (AC97) so it doesn't > show. I think mine has a clump on IRQ16. I thought leaving behind the old IBM AT bus architecture was supposed to free us from IRQ problems? > I have noticed that on any of the MB I have checked or seen irq maps for > that the internal audio always has it's own irq and quite often it is > the highest one which in most systems these days has the most priority. > I found this out because I had the card I was using for midi in the > higher of the two slots and my audio below. I had trouble with xruns on > the audio, but when I put the audio on the higher irq I had no more > trouble. I've discovered on my desktop that if I disable the onboard audio (which I don't use at all), ALSA doesn't load or start. But that motherboard on that is starting to have problems - sometimes it will boot up with a blank screen for a moment or so, then the BIOS display appears with a red warning that the "last overclocking setting failed". Which is odd because I have never and am not now overclocking it. I guess if it finally goes out I'll replace it with an Intel board. I like the Haswell architecture, it gives my laptop great performance while maintaining battery life (about 3.5hrs with my 2.4GHz i7). The previous model used slower Intel chips to squeeze out that battery life. Now if only video support for the HD4600 chip gets better - playing MP4s or other video formats results in frozen image except for a band or two that change. Ubuntu 13.10 can play video on it (if you install a bunch of libraries from outside the Ubuntu reality), so maybe it's just taking some time for Ubuntu's X tweaks to get back into the general X codebase. > I know that in theory that shouldn't happen because there are two part > to the irq drivers, a stub to answer the IRQ and save enough info to > work and the other part that the os prioritizes and does all the work. > So the os should be able to prioritize by the module name. I just know > what I have found works best. > > I have heard the words "in a modern system" too many times. I think any > system can do better audio if it is tuned/tweaked. Sure! I even had decent audio working on my old effectsbox laptop, which was an old Toshiba with a 2.8GHz Celeron and only 768MB of memory. It was old before it landed in my collection! (Audio quality was fine. Processor, on the other hand, was not really up to the job!) Toshiba laptops used to be really easy to use with Linux; Toshiba used "bog standard hardware" (as a friend of mine called it) and everything had full, mature Linux support. Don't know about current Toshibas. They've probably been pulled further into the Windows orbit since then. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From joelz at pobox.com Fri Apr 18 07:52:02 2014 From: joelz at pobox.com (Joel Roth) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2014 21:52:02 -1000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <5350CF53.30502@hawaii.rr.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <534F954B.2070205@hawaii.rr.com> <5350CF53.30502@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <20140418075202.GA18641@sprite> david wrote: > Toshiba laptops used to be really easy to use with Linux; Toshiba used "bog > standard hardware" (as a friend of mine called it) and everything had full, > mature Linux support. Don't know about current Toshibas. They've probably > been pulled further into the Windows orbit since then. Ack! I had a terrible experience with a Toshiba laptop from maybe five years ago, a Satellite. The fan control didn't work at all under Linux. None of the toshiba-specific kernel modules helped. I needed for the fan to turn on during the power-on sequence, and then, after boot, needed to turn down the CPU frequency to the lowest setting, or it would overheat. It was always iffy, and I had to prop up the laptop on top of some improvised standoffs so that the airflow would be sufficient. When I finally got a new laptop, I ended up running a vaccuum cleaner with the hose again against the outflow vent for a couple hours while I made a final copy of the important hard disk partitions. I had forgotten this horrible trauma until you reminded me. Thanks :-) Joel > -- > David W. Jones > gnome at hawaii.rr.com > authenticity, honesty, community > http://dancingtreefrog.com -- Joel Roth From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Fri Apr 18 08:47:42 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 10:47:42 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <53501535.90700@dadacafe.org> References: <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com> <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> <534FDF4D.3020602@youmail.dk> <53501535.90700@dadacafe.org> Message-ID: The first problem of Reaper, it lacks LADSPA and LV2 support ... On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 7:53 PM, Tilo Kremer wrote: > Hello, > > On 04/17/2014 05:34 PM, rosea grammostola wrote: > > I love the idea of FLOSS software, especially for creative work like > music. > > Most of the time I just do small pieces of music, to experiment and to > test > > the software. One of my dreams is to compose music and I hope I'll be > able > > to use Floss software then. I'm enthusiastic and idealistic about Floss > > software, Bitwig is nice, but I miss the idealistic feeling comparing to > > when I use NON :) Atm I try to focus on acoustic instruments, playing > > (double)bass in two bands now and I realize that I've still a lot to > learn > > when it comes to music. > > I dreamt that dream 20 years ago, and while the oss software > ecosystem has since vastly improved it still was not fitting the > bill for me. I started to use a commercial midi daw which was > included with a hardware mixer i bought, and soon after ditched most > software altogether in favour of real (DIY and off-the-shelf) > hardware. I still use pure data though. > > Bitwig looks interesting and i might give it a shot again when i > won't have to code javascript to get my hardware connected. > > > Reaper via Wine, is almost against my Floss & technical principles ... I > > still believe in Floss software, if the devs could care more about the > > finishing touch and fluent integration between tools which makes a > product > > really useful. I probably should blame myself for not giving up hope > > already ;) > > I wasn't so lucky getting emulated audio software to run well > enough, and meanwhile would advise to not wasting time blaming, just > use what works for you :) > > > from workaround to workaround. But I don't give up hope yet! :) > > the hope is still there, but being a diehard open source advocate > was not very helpful to get me going musically. > > my 2cts, > > Tee > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From idragosani at gmail.com Fri Apr 18 14:23:00 2014 From: idragosani at gmail.com (Brett McCoy) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 10:23:00 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Interview about theater music produced with Ardour3 Message-ID: I recently did an interview regarding the theater company I write music for. I am posting this because I produce all of my music with Linux audio (although Windows samplers like Kontakt are used, the real work I describe here is done with Linux). I also mention MuseScore and Ardour3, here, too :-) http://www.art-stream.org/content/flair-dramatic-music-great-scott (the singing your hear is me, I am a horrible singer but recorded scratch vocals for the actors, even Autotalent couldn't fix my warbling) -- Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world." -- Jelaleddin Rumi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atte at youmail.dk Fri Apr 18 18:27:08 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 20:27:08 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> <534FDF4D.3020602@youmail.dk> <53501535.90700@dadacafe.org> Message-ID: <53516E7C.5000902@youmail.dk> On 04/18/2014 10:47 AM, rosea grammostola wrote: > The first problem of Reaper, it lacks LADSPA and LV2 support ... :-) Maybe (most likely) you can find replacement vsti for most things you need (the same we say to every new ex-windows linux-audio-user). What are you missing? -- Atte From len at ovenwerks.net Fri Apr 18 18:55:40 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 11:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <5350CF53.30502@hawaii.rr.com> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <534F954B.2070205@hawaii.rr.com> <5350CF53.30502@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Apr 2014, david wrote: > I've discovered on my desktop that if I disable the onboard audio (which I > don't use at all), ALSA doesn't load or start. My multi-tracking audio card is pci so the system is seeing it before alsa loads, that may not be the case with USB audio. In fact with a PCI sound card, the bios may have to deal with it before the kernel ever sees the system, so it is the same as an internal card. I use two cards, I have a delta 66 for tracking and an ensoniq (pre soundblaster) card that is only used for it's MIDI interface. I wish I could just load the midi part of the ens1370 driver, but I guess the audio quality is (for what it is) usable if I really want 8 ins (I only have 8 mic pres)... but I have yet to use more than 2 inputs at once anyway. Jackdbus starts with session, PA has all devices turned off so any audio goes through jack. I think I will hack together something in the systray for changing jack's latency... maybe turn off pa-jack as latency goes down... turn off some of the system services while I am at it, deal with ondemand too. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Fri Apr 18 19:27:34 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 20:27:34 +0100 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <534F954B.2070205@hawaii.rr.com> <5350CF53.30502@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <20140418202734.14644d63@debian> On Fri, 18 Apr 2014 11:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Len Ovens wrote: > > On Thu, 17 Apr 2014, david wrote: > > > I've discovered on my desktop that if I disable the onboard audio (which I > > don't use at all), ALSA doesn't load or start. > > My multi-tracking audio card is pci so the system is seeing it before alsa > loads, that may not be the case with USB audio. In fact with a PCI sound > card, the bios may have to deal with it before the kernel ever sees the > system, so it is the same as an internal card. This was my experience too. PCI card and you can disable the motherboard sound. USB card and you can't. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Fri Apr 18 19:57:44 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 09:57:44 -1000 Subject: [LAU] hardware - Intel CPUs In-Reply-To: <20140418075202.GA18641@sprite> References: <20140409003033.63847BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <534E2F02.1040501@hawaii.rr.com> <534F954B.2070205@hawaii.rr.com> <5350CF53.30502@hawaii.rr.com> <20140418075202.GA18641@sprite> Message-ID: <535183B8.5060103@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/17/2014 09:52 PM, Joel Roth wrote: > david wrote: >> Toshiba laptops used to be really easy to use with Linux; Toshiba used "bog >> standard hardware" (as a friend of mine called it) and everything had full, >> mature Linux support. Don't know about current Toshibas. They've probably >> been pulled further into the Windows orbit since then. > > Ack! I had a terrible experience with a Toshiba laptop from > maybe five years ago, a Satellite. The fan control didn't > work at all under Linux. None of the toshiba-specific kernel > modules helped. I needed for the fan to turn on during the > power-on sequence, and then, after boot, needed to turn down > the CPU frequency to the lowest setting, or it would > overheat. It was always iffy, and I had to prop up the > laptop on top of some improvised standoffs so that the > airflow would be sufficient. > > When I finally got a new laptop, I ended up running a > vaccuum cleaner with the hose again against the outflow vent > for a couple hours while I made a final copy of the > important hard disk partitions. > > I had forgotten this horrible trauma until you reminded me. > Thanks :-) Your Toshiba is much newer than any of the three we had here (have only one left, my wife's)! We've never had any problems with fan or other thermal control on any of them, except the very oldest. When it turned 12, it started overheating. The fan would run like crazy with little effect. Once the machine shut down when it got too hot. I probably could have fixed it by opening it up and cleaning it out again, but the new laptop was arriving and I decided I no longer needed two laptops. Sitting it on a spare laptop cooler kept it working long enough. (We live in rather warm area of Hawaii without A/C.) But through it all, Linux supported all the Toshiba laptop features without any complaints for hoop-jumping. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From falktx at gmail.com Fri Apr 18 21:05:22 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 22:05:22 +0100 Subject: [LAU] ams-lv2 ingen patches Message-ID: <53519392.205@gmail.com> Hi there. The ingen patches in this page are no longer available: http://objectivewave.wordpress.com/ams-lv2/ I'd like to try them. Can someone re-upload them please? Thanks! PS: UbuntuOne will go offline and stop working very soon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeb at ponderworthy.com Sat Apr 19 01:43:34 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 01:43:34 +0000 Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? Message-ID: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> I realized there was a possibly significant gap in my knowledge of hardware, so I searched, and found that there have been a few Firewire devices with both audio and MIDI. The questions I have are (a) are any of them known to work well with current Linux, and (b) how is the MIDI supported on the backend, is it ALSA? J.E.B. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From len at ovenwerks.net Sat Apr 19 02:32:24 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2014 19:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? In-Reply-To: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> References: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > I realized there was a possibly significant gap in my knowledge of hardware, > so I searched, and found that there have been a few Firewire devices with > both audio and MIDI.? The questions I have are (a) are any of them known to > work well with current Linux, and (b) how is the MIDI supported on the > backend, is it ALSA? Jack and jack, both audio and midi. There are rumours of alsa drivers, but so far as I know they are not there. If you must use it with alsa midi, start with a2jmidid and use "MIDI Through" if you must. So long as the application that uses alsa makes some alsa ports you can do all your connects in jack midi with a2jmidid. But if the app just looks at alsa and connects direct use the through as well. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From jeb at ponderworthy.com Sat Apr 19 03:58:30 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 03:58:30 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Concerning schedtool Message-ID: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> I gave it a royal tryout just now. Below is sound-patch startup code, it's actually a mashup of most of my START-INITIAL script which runs at boot, and the first patch script which it calls. When I keep the schedtool prefixes, MIDI keyhits all make it in and synths all get their signal out through the sound card output. When I don't, about one in 20-30 keyhits (and also occasionally key-ups) get lost, and there are cutouts both at high load and very low loads. Some may notice I have let the latency rise to 4; this too seems to be indicated for the loads I'm using, though if I were using just one light load (say, a simple Yoshimi patch), it could be ratcheted down a lot. Oddly, it does appear that a different patch which calls just Fluidsynth, functions as a heavier load than three Yoshimis; it is true that Fluidsynth is itself using a rather big four-voiced soundfont. I have another which right now is two Yoshimis plus the same Fluidsynth an octave lower (octave handled by mididings), that one is higher yet, but the setup and weights below are handling it well. The relative weights are definitely guesses based on behavior. I just increase the weight of anything which misbehaves, until it makes it worse, then reverse :-) I did find earlier tonight that I had neglected my limits.conf, so this is what I have set now, which allows those numbers below to actually work: @audio - rtprio 95 @audio - nice -19 @audio - memlock 512000 I'm not sure the nice is at all needed, but it doesn't seem to be harming anything. J.E.B. ------ jack_control start jack_control ds dummy jack_control dps capture 0 jack_control dps playback 0 jack_control dps rate 48000 jack_control dps period 64 jack_control eps realtime true jack_control eps realtime-priority 50 jack_control eps clock-source 1 # Stop any running audio elements echo "Stop any running audio elements..." killall -9 -w yoshimi fluidsynth zita-j2a aj-snapshot calfjackhost non-mixer rakarrack mididings lashd killall -9 -w yoshimi fluidsynth zita-j2a aj-snapshot calfjackhost non-mixer rakarrack mididings lashd # Remove all connections echo "Stopping a2j..." a2j_control stop echo "Stopping Jackd to remove all connections..." killall -9 -w jackdbus killall -9 -w jackdbus jack_control stop echo "Starting Jackd..." jack_control start sleep 2 # Running a2j -- needful to use ALSA MIDI devices with # zita-a2j, which uses the 'dummy' driver in Jack echo "Starting a2jmidid..." a2j_control ehw a2j_control start # Start zita-j2a for audio out echo "Starting Zita..." nohup schedtool -R -p 80 -e zita-j2a -d hw:SB -r 48000 -p 64 & # Start all relevant audio elements echo "Start all relevant audio elements..." nohup schedtool -R -p 75 -e mididings -f /home/jeb/Combine.py \ > /home/jeb/LOGS/Combine.log & nohup schedtool -R -p 50 -e calfjackhost --client CalfSRO \ eq12:SRO ! reverb:SRO ! Compressor:SRO \ > /home/jeb/LOGS/calfjackhost-SRO.log & nohup schedtool -R -p 50 -e yoshimi -N YoshSRO1 -j \ -l /home/jeb/YOSHIMI/SROpart1.xmz > /home/jeb/LOGS/Yoshimi-SRO1.log & nohup schedtool -R -p 50 -e yoshimi -N YoshSRO2 -j \ -l /home/jeb/YOSHIMI/SROpart2.xmz > /home/jeb/LOGS/Yoshimi-SRO2.log & nohup schedtool -R -p 50 -e yoshimi -N YoshSRO3 -j \ -l /home/jeb/YOSHIMI/SROpart3.xmz > /home/jeb/LOGS/Yoshimi-SRO3.log & sleep 2 # And lastly, create jackd connections using aj-snapshot echo "And lastly, create jackd connections using aj-snapshot..." cp /home/jeb/AJSRO.xml /home/jeb/AJRunning.xml nohup schedtool -R -p 75 -e aj-snapshot -d AJRunning.xml & -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nettings at stackingdwarves.net Sat Apr 19 08:22:50 2014 From: nettings at stackingdwarves.net (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rn_Nettingsmeier?=) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:22:50 +0200 Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? In-Reply-To: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> References: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: <5352325A.2020507@stackingdwarves.net> On 04/19/2014 03:43 AM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > I realized there was a possibly significant gap in my knowledge of > hardware, so I searched, and found that there have been a few Firewire > devices with both audio and MIDI. The questions I have are (a) are any > of them known to work well with current Linux, and (b) how is the MIDI > supported on the backend, is it ALSA? i have used focusrite sapphires with good success, both the now discontinued pro26 and the pro56. FFADO makes midi available as a jackmidi port, so (as others have noted) you will need to run aj2midid -e to bridge them to ALSA sequencer clients. i just added it as a post-startup command in qjackctl and forgot about it. can't comment on MIDI timing performance, i only ever used it for controllers, but i don't see any reason to have doubts. -- J?rn Nettingsmeier Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 Meister f?r Veranstaltungstechnik (B?hne/Studio) Tonmeister VDT http://stackingdwarves.net From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Sat Apr 19 09:59:31 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 11:59:31 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <53516E7C.5000902@youmail.dk> References: <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk> <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> <534FDF4D.3020602@youmail.dk> <53501535.90700@dadacafe.org> <53516E7C.5000902@youmail.dk> Message-ID: It just feels stupid to start working with an app on linux which doesn't support native plugins. Is Qtractor so bad? On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 8:27 PM, Atte wrote: > On 04/18/2014 10:47 AM, rosea grammostola wrote: > >> The first problem of Reaper, it lacks LADSPA and LV2 support ... >> > > :-) > > Maybe (most likely) you can find replacement vsti for most things you need > (the same we say to every new ex-windows linux-audio-user). What are you > missing? > > -- > Atte > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin at gareus.org Sat Apr 19 10:31:36 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 12:31:36 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Concerning schedtool In-Reply-To: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: <53525088.8030300@gareus.org> On 04/19/2014 05:58 AM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > When I keep the schedtool prefixes, MIDI keyhits all make it in and > synths all get their signal out through the sound card output. That may be true for ALSA MIDI applications, but for jack applications using schedtool is plain wrong. You do not want to raise the priority of the application (think GUI or UI) itself. You only want the audio+midi i/o of an app to have realtime privileges. JACK does just that. With schedutils the GUI or application itself is be able to preempt audio I/O. You should have even better performance if you use schedtools only for applications that use alsa. And ideally just get rid of all native ALSA apps (most of the ones on your list do offer jack audio+midi), and use the new jack-0.124.1 instead of a2jmidid. > When I don't, about one in 20-30 keyhits (and also occasionally > key-ups) get lost. Wow. If schedutils works around this, there must be something very odd on your system, but hey. whatever works :) I find the hack to use the dummy driver and always resample using zita-a2j highly questionable. The timing of the dummy driver is horrible. It just uses usleep() which waits _at_least_ the given time (not at most). It's amazing that zita-ajbridge manages flatten this all out without major distortion :) The 'clock-source' configuration is misleading. The given clock is only used for calculating the time of the last x-run and for the b0rked built-in midi-drivers. It is not used in the dummy driver. Anyway as last note: jack uses sched_FIFO which can only be preemted by a another FIFO process with at least the same priority. Your schedtool script uses sched_RR which can be preempted (context switch) by other RR task (round robin time quantum), which is why it actually works: Those apps still can't preempt jack. otherwise zita-j2a with a higher priority than jack would cause all kind of priority inversions. yuck. tl;dr: Rather get the new jack1 - with zalsa built it and a proper midi driver and forget about schedutils. 2c, robin From jeremy at autostatic.com Sat Apr 19 14:13:33 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 16:13:33 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Concerning schedtool In-Reply-To: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: <5352848D.3040503@autostatic.com> On 04/19/2014 05:58 AM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > I gave it a royal tryout just now. Below is sound-patch startup code, it's actually a mashup of most of my START-INITIAL script which runs at boot, and the first patch script which it calls. When I keep the schedtool prefixes, MIDI keyhits all make it in and synths all get their signal out through the sound card output. When I don't, about one in 20-30 keyhits (and also occasionally key-ups) get lost, and there are cutouts both at high load and very low loads. Some may notice I have let the latency rise to 4; this too seems to be indicated for the loads I'm using, though if I were using just one light load (say, a simple Yoshimi patch), it could be ratcheted down a lot. Oddly, it does appear that a different patch which calls just Fluidsynth, functions as a heavier load than three Yoshimis; it is true that Fluidsynth is itself using a rather big four-voiced soundfont. I have another which right now is two Yoshimis plus the same Fluidsynth an octave lower (octave handled by mid idings), that one is higher yet, but the setup and weights below are handling it well. > > The relative weights are definitely guesses based on behavior. I just increase the weight of anything which misbehaves, until it makes it worse, then reverse :-) I did find earlier tonight that I had neglected my limits.conf, so this is what I have set now, which allows those numbers below to actually work: > > @audio - rtprio 95 > @audio - nice -19 > @audio - memlock 512000 > > I'm not sure the nice is at all needed, but it doesn't seem to be harming anything. Hello Jonathan, It's not needed in a Linux audio context: http://jackaudio.org/linux_rt_config > > J.E.B. > > ------ > > jack_control start > > jack_control ds dummy > jack_control dps capture 0 > jack_control dps playback 0 > jack_control dps rate 48000 > jack_control dps period 64 > jack_control eps realtime true > jack_control eps realtime-priority 50 Why 50? Personally I'd set it to the highest possible value. > jack_control eps clock-source 1 > > # Stop any running audio elements > echo "Stop any running audio elements..." > killall -9 -w yoshimi fluidsynth zita-j2a aj-snapshot calfjackhost non-mixer rakarrack mididings lashd > killall -9 -w yoshimi fluidsynth zita-j2a aj-snapshot calfjackhost non-mixer rakarrack mididings lashd > My 2 cents while not being a Bash expert (so shoot me if I do things horribly wrong here): --- apps=( yoshimi fluidsynth zita-j2a aj-snapshot calfjackhost non-mixer rakarrack mididings lashd ) for a in "${apps[@]}" do while pidof $a do killall -9 -w $a done done --- Like this you're sure the processes get killed and you don't need to add double killall commands. > # Remove all connections > echo "Stopping a2j..." > a2j_control stop > echo "Stopping Jackd to remove all connections..." > killall -9 -w jackdbus > killall -9 -w jackdbus --- while pidof jackdbus do killall -9 -w jackdbus done --- > jack_control stop > echo "Starting Jackd..." > jack_control start > sleep 2 > > # Running a2j -- needful to use ALSA MIDI devices with > # zita-a2j, which uses the 'dummy' driver in Jack > echo "Starting a2jmidid..." > a2j_control ehw > a2j_control start > Why not use Jack2's built-in alsarawmidi driver? > # Start zita-j2a for audio out > echo "Starting Zita..." > nohup schedtool -R -p 80 -e zita-j2a -d hw:SB -r 48000 -p 64 & > > # Start all relevant audio elements > echo "Start all relevant audio elements..." > nohup schedtool -R -p 75 -e mididings -f /home/jeb/Combine.py \ > > /home/jeb/LOGS/Combine.log & > nohup schedtool -R -p 50 -e calfjackhost --client CalfSRO \ > eq12:SRO ! reverb:SRO ! Compressor:SRO \ > > /home/jeb/LOGS/calfjackhost-SRO.log & > nohup schedtool -R -p 50 -e yoshimi -N YoshSRO1 -j \ > -l /home/jeb/YOSHIMI/SROpart1.xmz > /home/jeb/LOGS/Yoshimi-SRO1.log & > nohup schedtool -R -p 50 -e yoshimi -N YoshSRO2 -j \ > -l /home/jeb/YOSHIMI/SROpart2.xmz > /home/jeb/LOGS/Yoshimi-SRO2.log & > nohup schedtool -R -p 50 -e yoshimi -N YoshSRO3 -j \ > -l /home/jeb/YOSHIMI/SROpart3.xmz > /home/jeb/LOGS/Yoshimi-SRO3.log & > sleep 2 > Why are you running all Yoshimi processes and the main JACK thread with the same rtprio? Don't they get in each other way then? Or does that only apply to SCHED_FIFO? > # And lastly, create jackd connections using aj-snapshot > echo "And lastly, create jackd connections using aj-snapshot..." > cp /home/jeb/AJSRO.xml /home/jeb/AJRunning.xml > nohup schedtool -R -p 75 -e aj-snapshot -d AJRunning.xml & > Same question actually wrt to aj-snapshot running as a daemon and mididings. And are you using rtirq-init? What other optimizations did you make on your system? Just ftr (or call it plain braggin'), I can run a Qtractor project with 14 ZynAddSubFX LV2 plugins and a handful of other plugins (compression, reverb, eq) with similar JACK settings (-n3 -p64 -r48000). But then I'm not sure if you're using multiple parts per Yoshimi instance, it could well be you're using 48 parts that contain instruments with lots of voices :) Bye, Jeremy > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From atte at youmail.dk Sat Apr 19 14:13:45 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 16:13:45 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> <534FDF4D.3020602@youmail.dk> <53501535.90700@dadacafe.org> <53516E7C.5000902@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <53528499.8050004@youmail.dk> On 04/19/2014 11:59 AM, rosea grammostola wrote: > It just feels stupid to start working with an app on linux which doesn't > support native plugins. Is Qtractor so bad? I'm not gonna speak bad about fine FLOSS. I'd hoped you (and hopefully many others here, including some of the great developers) would try reaper (and other commercial applications), so that discussions here would be based on experience... -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From email.rafa at gmail.com Sat Apr 19 14:38:10 2014 From: email.rafa at gmail.com (Rafael Vega) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 09:38:10 -0500 Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? In-Reply-To: <5352325A.2020507@stackingdwarves.net> References: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <5352325A.2020507@stackingdwarves.net> Message-ID: I use Roland FA-66 with no troubles at all. On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:22 AM, J?rn Nettingsmeier < nettings at stackingdwarves.net> wrote: > On 04/19/2014 03:43 AM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > >> I realized there was a possibly significant gap in my knowledge of >> hardware, so I searched, and found that there have been a few Firewire >> devices with both audio and MIDI. The questions I have are (a) are any >> of them known to work well with current Linux, and (b) how is the MIDI >> supported on the backend, is it ALSA? >> > > i have used focusrite sapphires with good success, both the now > discontinued pro26 and the pro56. FFADO makes midi available as a jackmidi > port, so (as others have noted) you will need to run aj2midid -e to bridge > them to ALSA sequencer clients. i just added it as a post-startup command > in qjackctl and forgot about it. > can't comment on MIDI timing performance, i only ever used it for > controllers, but i don't see any reason to have doubts. > > -- > J?rn Nettingsmeier > Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487 > > Meister f?r Veranstaltungstechnik (B?hne/Studio) > Tonmeister VDT > > http://stackingdwarves.net > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -- Rafael Vega email.rafa at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin at gareus.org Sat Apr 19 14:42:49 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 16:42:49 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Concerning schedtool In-Reply-To: <5352848D.3040503@autostatic.com> References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <5352848D.3040503@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <53528B69.6050404@gareus.org> On 04/19/2014 04:13 PM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > Why not use Jack2's built-in alsarawmidi driver? because it [excuse my language] sucks. very bad timing & jitter. For all linux versions of jack, except the latest version of jack1 (0.124) using a2jdmidi is highly recommended. ciao, robin From csanchezgs at gmail.com Sat Apr 19 15:04:22 2014 From: csanchezgs at gmail.com (csan) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 08:04:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Concerning schedtool References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53525088.8030300@gareus.org> Message-ID: <1397920646412.f8782e8b56a3e@mozgaia> Robin Gareus escribi?: > On 04/19/2014 05:58 AM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote:>> When I keep the schedtool prefixes, MIDI keyhits all make it in and >> synths all get their signal out through the sound card output. > That may be true for ALSA MIDI applications, but for jack applications > using schedtool is plain wrong. > > You do not want to raise the priority of the application (think GUI or > UI) itself. You only want the audio+midi i/o of an app to have realtime > privileges. JACK does just that. With schedutils the GUI or application > itself is be able to preempt audio I/O. > > You should have even better performance if you use schedtools only for > applications that use alsa. And ideally just get rid of all native ALSA > apps (most of the ones on your list do offer jack audio+midi), and use > the new jack-0.124.1 instead of a2jmidid.>> When I don't, about one in 20-30 keyhits (and also occasionally >> key-ups) get lost.> Wow. If schedutils works around this, there must be something very odd > on your system, but hey. whatever works :) > > I find the hack to use the dummy driver and always resample using > zita-a2j highly questionable. The timing of the dummy driver is > horrible. It just uses usleep() which waits _at_least_ the given time > (not at most). It's amazing that zita-ajbridge manages flatten this all > out without major distortion :) > The 'clock-source' configuration is misleading. The given clock is only > used for calculating the time of the last x-run and for the b0rked > built-in midi-drivers. It is not used in the dummy driver. > > Anyway as last note: jack uses sched_FIFO which can only be preemted by > a another FIFO process with at least the same priority. Your schedtool > script uses sched_RR which can be preempted (context switch) by other RR > task (round robin time quantum), which is why it actually works: Those > apps still can't preempt jack. otherwise zita-j2a with a higher priority > than jack would cause all kind of priority inversions. yuck. > > tl;dr: Rather get the new jack1 - with zalsa built it and a proper midi > driver and forget about schedutils. > > 2c, > robin In my experiments with a Raspberry PI as a headless FX pedalboard+looper for live jamming I don't use nohup/schedule commands on my scripts, and I've achieved an acceptable RT system with really low latency. I'm constantly improving it anyway, but it seems that disabling some services and tweaking jack1 is enough. Hopefully I'll be releasing some scripts and apps when I can do some code cleanup to release them properly. BTW. Jonathan, nice and useful blog/notes. Thanks for sharing. From email.rafa at gmail.com Sat Apr 19 15:10:36 2014 From: email.rafa at gmail.com (Rafael Vega) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:10:36 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Marking soundcard outputs as "default" Message-ID: Hi, I recently started using ALSA Jack plug-in bridge and have this issue: My laptop's sound card has 4 outputs: 1->L, 2->R, 3->Unused?, and 4->"woofer". When any of the ALSA programs I use (flash player, for example) connect to Jack, they expose 2 outputs and auto connect to the sound card's 1st and 2nd output. I would like them to auto connect so that the 4th output (the woofer) is also used. right now, every time I hit play on grooveshark, for example, I have to go to patchage an make connections from output 1 and 2 in alsa bridge client to 4th output in the sound card. Is there any way to make this automatic? perhaps by marking outputs 1, 2 and 4 as "default" or "autoconnect"? Maybe there is a hook that detects new clients and I can write a script that connects alsa clients the way I want? Now that I think about it, this should not apply only to alsa bridge client but any jack client! Regards, Rafael. -- Rafael Vega email.rafa at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sat Apr 19 16:18:02 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 18:18:02 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Concerning schedtool In-Reply-To: <53528B69.6050404@gareus.org> References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <5352848D.3040503@autostatic.com> <53528B69.6050404@gareus.org> Message-ID: <1397924282.2443.6.camel@archlinux> On Sat, 2014-04-19 at 16:42 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > On 04/19/2014 04:13 PM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > > Why not use Jack2's built-in alsarawmidi driver? > > because it [excuse my language] sucks. very bad timing & jitter. In the past I used jack2's -Xalsarawmidi option to get rid of bad timing and jitter. I can't speak for current jack1 and jack2, but some time ago -Xalsarawmidi improved those things a lot compared to jack1, which didn't provide this option and compared to jack2 without using this option. Are we speaking about the same alsarawmidi thingy? I'm thinking of something like this: jackd --sync -Xalsarawmidi -dalsa -r$sample_rate -p$frames_period Regards, Ralf From len at ovenwerks.net Sat Apr 19 16:36:43 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 09:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <53528499.8050004@youmail.dk> References: <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> <534FDF4D.3020602@youmail.dk> <53501535.90700@dadacafe.org> <53516E7C.5000902@youmail.dk> <53528499.8050004@youmail.dk> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014, Atte wrote: > On 04/19/2014 11:59 AM, rosea grammostola wrote: > >> It just feels stupid to start working with an app on linux which doesn't >> support native plugins. Is Qtractor so bad? > > I'm not gonna speak bad about fine FLOSS. I'd hoped you (and hopefully many > others here, including some of the great developers) would try reaper (and > other commercial applications), so that discussions here would be based on > experience... Speaking as a guitarist first... so sequencing is less interesting to me (though I do have an old DX7) than it might be to others. But I have an extremely tight budget. For many years my hardware has been what others have cast off... I have just not had the money to buy computer hardware, let alone a pricey OS (I did use a copy of OS/2 I actually paid for at one time) or even more pricey applications (which is what finally killed OS/2 for me). Things have gotten better and I am finally getting a replacement for my 10 plus year old P4. A xeon based system would be wonderful I am sure, but the cost is still too much. None of the MB out there seem to have PCI slots at all or much in the way of on board video. So besides the added expense of replacing my audio IF (One thing at a time please) at $500 plus I have everything else to get as well. So I have ordered an asus z87 board with 3 PCI slots (to give me some choice of irq) with an i5 processer. The only real difference I could see between the i5 and i7 is that the i7 has hyperthreading which I would have to turn off anyway. I did also look at the atom boards. There is a very nice 8 core atom out these days tha would probably run circles around what I am getting, but again nothing with pci slots... or enough of any slots, and the video is not there for a desktop. Atoms are made for notepads and servers. They work great headless. All that to say, I don't have the resources to try out comercial apps. SO I haven't. Ardour for me (even 2) has everything I need and I can't imagine needing something more. I have looked at other daws in Linux and just the time to learn to use them has been difficult to find. I did DL bitwig to try. It seems to work ok, but did not grab me with a "I gotta have this" feeling or anything. It was not enough for me to spend my time learning it. Quite honestly I had a sequencer program on my Atari mega2 way back before digital recording that was better than anything I have seen since (and it was shareware). Though to be honest some of that glow may have more to do with it being my first and memory dimming things :) Back then, midi was the only way I could do a drum track because the other 7 audio tracks on tape were required for other more important things. Even bass was recorded that way sometimes. So really, I use Linux audio first, because I can afford it. Second because every experience I have had with wondows has been bad or at least less than impressive. Win 3.1 against OS/2 2.1 then Linux against win 95, 98, ME, NT, xp, win7... apple stuff is just out of my range to even try. So it would be really easy for me to say FOSS is it, because that is about all I use, but the reality is that I would pay for sw if I felt it was better and I could afford it. The other reality is that FOSS SW does everything I need right now, gives me enough info to tune my system, and just works. Trying stuff that costs money just to try it, for me, and perhaps others, is just pie in the sky stuff. While demos try to be complete enough to try everything without giving the whole thing away, to really try something, I would need to do at least one (but probably more) project with it. I am not going to waste my time learning something that well where I can't save my work, so trying means buying. A demo just allows someone to figure out that something just won't work for them, not if it will work. So some of us are "handicapped" when it comes to commenting on commercial SW. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From len at ovenwerks.net Sat Apr 19 17:13:57 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:13:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? In-Reply-To: <53529C11.9040503@ponderworthy.com> References: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53529C11.9040503@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > Thanks!? Do you know of any good such devices which are not very pricey?? I > found a few out there after reading your post, but they seemed all to be in > the high-port-count and higher-cost ranges. Cheapest Audio plus midi has got to be the old ens1370 based cards... free if you can find it. Best 16 bit sound for the price. If you don't have a pci slot, then the next price range is going to be USB devices... because most new systems don't have a FW plug, so an adaptor is required. Also, USB covers more people's systems so scale brings prices lower too. USB midi ports can be had for less than $30. And of course there are lots of USB audio solutions out there including built right into the mic stuff, again under $100. USB audio is much more picky about system tuning for low latency. Assuming you already have a FW port, it is a better solution than USB, but even a 2+2+midi FW unit will cost more than the USB 2+2+midi unit. The Focusrite line starts with the pro 14 at $260. They call it 8in and 6 out, but I only see 6 physical inputs (and two of those are s/pdif i/o so only 4 i/o for analog) at $260... yet they sell the 2i2 for usb for $150 or so. Presonus is the same, their "Firestudio mobile" is similar features and price to the pro 14 and the price matches too. (just note that it seems to need breakout cables to get at all the ports... including MIDI) Their audiobox USB (2+2+midi) can be had for $140. So, yes FW costs more, but works better/easier. In the end you have to decide how important moneywise these things are to you. The presonus USB has been very good and stable... except in USB3 ports on Intel USB3 ports which are... broken at least for low latency audio (Intel agrees). -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From len at ovenwerks.net Sat Apr 19 17:16:38 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? In-Reply-To: References: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53529C11.9040503@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: > On Sat, 19 Apr 2014, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > >> Thanks!? Do you know of any good such devices which are not very pricey?? I I should have said "what do you mean by pricey?" There are some very expensive setups out there. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From robin at gareus.org Sat Apr 19 17:47:56 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 19:47:56 +0200 Subject: [LAU] JACK MIDI latency -- was Re: Concerning schedtool In-Reply-To: <1397924282.2443.6.camel@archlinux> References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <5352848D.3040503@autostatic.com> <53528B69.6050404@gareus.org> <1397924282.2443.6.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <5352B6CC.2000106@gareus.org> On 04/19/2014 06:18 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sat, 2014-04-19 at 16:42 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: >> On 04/19/2014 04:13 PM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: >>> Why not use Jack2's built-in alsarawmidi driver? >> >> because it [excuse my language] sucks. very bad timing & jitter. > > In the past I used jack2's -Xalsarawmidi option to get rid of bad timing > and jitter. I can't speak for current jack1 and jack2, but some time ago > -Xalsarawmidi improved those things a lot compared to jack1, which > didn't provide this option and compared to jack2 without using this > option. Indeed they're pretty close these days. That was not true last time I measured it. a2jmidid still has a slight edge, here. Same latency as alsarawmidi but less jitter. jackd2 from git (ab409a65df). measured with https://github.com/x42/jack_midi_latency using a PreSonus 1818VSL on a thinkpad x60s. linux 3.2.35 SMP PREEMPT RT ====================== ## jackd -S -dalsa -dhw:2 -r48000 -p64 -n2 -Xraw JACK settings: samplerate: 48000, samples/period: 64 probable nominal jack latency: 128 [samples] = 2.67 [ms] TOTAL: 10000 MIDI events sent+received. min= 183 max= 209 range= 26 avg= 193.6 dev= 4.69 [samples] min= 3.81 max= 4.35 range= 0.54 avg= 4.0 dev= 0.10 [ms] 0.00 .. 3.78 [ms]: 0 3.78 .. 3.80 [ms]: 2 # 3.80 .. 3.81 [ms]: 0 3.81 .. 3.83 [ms]: 13 # 3.83 .. 3.85 [ms]: 44 # 3.85 .. 3.86 [ms]: 127 # 3.86 .. 3.88 [ms]: 0 3.88 .. 3.89 [ms]: 142 # 3.89 .. 3.91 [ms]: 270 ## 3.91 .. 3.93 [ms]: 222 ## 3.93 .. 3.94 [ms]: 491 #### 3.94 .. 3.96 [ms]: 0 3.96 .. 3.98 [ms]: 4930 ########################################### 3.98 .. 3.99 [ms]: 263 ## 3.99 .. 4.01 [ms]: 174 # 4.01 .. 4.03 [ms]: 0 4.03 .. 4.04 [ms]: 159 # 4.04 .. 4.06 [ms]: 152 # 4.06 .. 4.07 [ms]: 612 ###### 4.07 .. 4.09 [ms]: 200 ## 4.09 .. 4.11 [ms]: 0 4.11 .. 4.12 [ms]: 298 ### 4.12 .. 4.14 [ms]: 170 # 4.14 .. 4.16 [ms]: 188 # 4.16 .. 4.17 [ms]: 132 # 4.17 .. 4.19 [ms]: 0 4.19 .. 4.20 [ms]: 733 ####### 4.20 .. 4.22 [ms]: 490 #### 4.22 .. 4.24 [ms]: 153 # 4.24 .. inf [ms]: 34 # ====================== ## jackd -S -dalsa -dhw:2 -r48000 -p64 -n2 ## a2jmidid -e JACK settings: samplerate: 48000, samples/period: 64 probable nominal jack latency: 128 [samples] = 2.67 [ms] TOTAL: 10000 MIDI events sent+received. min= 184 max= 209 range= 25 avg= 193.0 dev= 4.09 [samples] min= 3.83 max= 4.35 range= 0.52 avg= 4.0 dev= 0.09 [ms] 0.00 .. 3.80 [ms]: 0 3.80 .. 3.83 [ms]: 48 # 3.83 .. 3.85 [ms]: 73 # 3.85 .. 3.88 [ms]: 99 # 3.88 .. 3.91 [ms]: 131 # 3.91 .. 3.93 [ms]: 164 # 3.93 .. 3.96 [ms]: 6318 ############################################ 3.96 .. 3.98 [ms]: 252 # 3.98 .. 4.01 [ms]: 174 # 4.01 .. 4.04 [ms]: 133 # 4.04 .. 4.06 [ms]: 906 ####### 4.06 .. 4.09 [ms]: 223 # 4.09 .. 4.11 [ms]: 151 # 4.11 .. 4.14 [ms]: 96 # 4.14 .. 4.17 [ms]: 220 # 4.17 .. 4.19 [ms]: 623 #### 4.19 .. inf [ms]: 388 ### ====================== ## jackd -S -dalsa -dhw:2 -r48000 -p64 -n2 -Xseq interestingly has the lowest latency (one period less) but 3 times the jitter. JACK settings: samplerate: 48000, samples/period: 64 probable nominal jack latency: 128 [samples] = 2.67 [ms] TOTAL: 10000 MIDI events sent+received. min= 128 max= 179 range= 51 avg= 154.2 dev= 13.59 [samples] min= 2.67 max= 3.73 range= 1.06 avg= 3.2 dev= 0.28 [ms] 0.00 .. 2.57 [ms]: 53 # 2.57 .. 2.69 [ms]: 542 ############## 2.69 .. 2.81 [ms]: 1834 ############################################ 2.81 .. 2.93 [ms]: 1078 ############################# 2.93 .. 3.05 [ms]: 764 #################### 3.05 .. 3.18 [ms]: 1750 ######################################### 3.18 .. 3.30 [ms]: 887 ######################## 3.30 .. 3.42 [ms]: 1164 ############################### 3.42 .. 3.54 [ms]: 1720 ######################################## 3.54 .. 3.66 [ms]: 207 ##### 3.66 .. 3.78 [ms]: 0 3.78 .. inf [ms]: 0 ciao, robin From jeb at ponderworthy.com Sat Apr 19 17:59:54 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 17:59:54 +0000 Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? In-Reply-To: References: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53529C11.9040503@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <5352B91B.4000802@ponderworthy.com> Thanks! Do you know of any good such devices which are not very pricey? I found a few out there after reading your post, but they seemed all to be in the high-port-count and higher-cost ranges. Cheapest Audio plus midi has got to be the old ens1370 based cards... free if you can find it. Best 16 bit sound for the price. If you don't have a pci slot, then the next price range is going to be USB devices... because most new systems don't have a FW plug, so an adaptor is required. Also, USB covers more people's systems so scale brings prices lower too. USB midi ports can be had for less than $30. And of course there are lots of USB audio solutions out there including built right into the mic stuff, again under $100. USB audio is much more picky about system tuning for low latency. Assuming you already have a FW port, it is a better solution than USB, but even a 2+2+midi FW unit will cost more than the USB 2+2+midi unit. The Focusrite line starts with the pro 14 at $260. They call it 8in and 6 out, but I only see 6 physical inputs (and two of those are s/pdif i/o so only 4 i/o for analog) at $260... yet they sell the 2i2 for usb for $150 or so. Presonus is the same, their "Firestudio mobile" is similar features and price to the pro 14 and the price matches too. (just note that it seems to need breakout cables to get at all the ports... including MIDI) Their audiobox USB (2+2+midi) can be had for $140. So, yes FW costs more, but works better/easier. In the end you have to decide how important moneywise these things are to you. The presonus USB has been very good and stable... except in USB3 ports on Intel USB3 ports which are... broken at least for low latency audio (Intel agrees). That helps a lot. Had not heard that USB3 was broken for low-latency audio, I'll have to remember that. The reason I'm suddenly interested in Firewire though, is something I read recently: 6-pin Firewire ports are generally rated for 50,000 insertions, which is literally five times the very best of the USB1 or USB2 standards (the best USB is, interestingly, microUSB, at 10,000). I have been wearing out USB-A ports and cable ends at a disturbing rate on this mobile rig, and on a hunch checked Firewire ratings, and remain quite shocked. (4-pin Firewire is only 1500-insertion rated, FYI.) For me this alone is a very good reason to convert generally to Firewire, but there is still the basic problem of keeping the whole mobile-friendly; a big heavy dongle-box isn't very mobile, USB or Firewire. Also, I have heard that USB 3.1 has already been announced, and that it has a new micro-sized (but not micro-shaped) connector all its own, so I am planning on not investing in much USB until that happens, and only if the insertion spec is nice and high. Partially worn out USB ports and ends, may very well be responsible for a lot of dying flash drives, dying external USB hard drives, loss of data thereon, and other things. -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeb at ponderworthy.com Sat Apr 19 18:21:19 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 18:21:19 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Raspberry PI as a FX pedalboard and looper In-Reply-To: <1397920646412.f8782e8b56a3e@mozgaia> References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53525088.8030300@gareus.org> <1397920646412.f8782e8b56a3e@mozgaia> Message-ID: <5352BE20.9000608@ponderworthy.com> In my experiments with a Raspberry PI as a headless FX pedalboard+looper for live jamming I don't use nohup/schedule commands on my scripts, and I've achieved an acceptable RT system with really low latency. I'm constantly improving it anyway, but it seems that disabling some services and tweaking jack1 is enough. Hopefully I'll be releasing some scripts and apps when I can do some code cleanup to release them properly. BTW. Jonathan, nice and useful blog/notes. Thanks for sharing. Thanks, cscan. I am rather interested to hear that you are able to so much with your R.P.! After I have the current rig in a nice functional configuration, I'll probably try one of those, or possibly one of the powerful workalikes I read about in a recent web excursion, I probably need the DSP cycles :-) What kind of audio I/O hardware are you using, and are you using MIDI or OSC or something else for the pedal signal? -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From len at ovenwerks.net Sat Apr 19 18:21:33 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 11:21:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? In-Reply-To: <5352B91B.4000802@ponderworthy.com> References: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53529C11.9040503@ponderworthy.com> <5352B91B.4000802@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Apr 2014, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > That helps a lot.? Had not heard that USB3 was broken for low-latency > audio, I'll have to remember that.? The reason I'm suddenly interested I should clarify. There are no (that I know of) USB3 Audio Interfaces made at this time. The problem is with USB2 Audio Interfaces plugged into USB3 ports. The work around is to remove the USB3 driver and just use the USB2 driver. This is fine for audio use, but means if you wish to use the USB3 port for a USB hard drive on the same machine, it will be slow (usb2 speeds). I do not know if this affects the USB2 ports on a machine with USB3 hw, but one of the musts with USB audio is finding a USB port with a clear IRQ... which might happen to be one of the usb3 ports. Also there are some machines (mostly laptops) that have only USB3 ports available. There are apparently some scanners that have problems too. Intel has called this a "non-problem" saying the software should just have the unit "resend" any bad packets... not low latency words. If USB3.1 has a new plug format, it will be usb3 only and this may force the audio interface producers to design a USB3 audio interface that may not have these problems. They have not done so at this time because there is no need to, the USB3 spec does not add anything for the audio world. A laptop with no usb1/2 ports might change that. An audio IF that plugged into a USB2 hub plugged into a USB3 port is probably not a good low latency audio solution. I had not heard of the insertion count thing before. That is good to know. For a lot of people it will not matter as they only plug things in once and leave them. But for mobile use it sound like spending the extra for reliablility is worth while. I wonder what the numbers are for the standard "D" conectors are (like serial or VGA). -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Sat Apr 19 23:08:07 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 13:08:07 -1000 Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? In-Reply-To: References: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53529C11.9040503@ponderworthy.com> <5352B91B.4000802@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <535301D7.9030009@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/19/2014 08:21 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > > On Sat, 19 Apr 2014, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > >> That helps a lot. Had not heard that USB3 was broken for low-latency >> audio, I'll have to remember that. The reason I'm suddenly interested > > I should clarify. There are no (that I know of) USB3 Audio Interfaces > made at this time. The problem is with USB2 Audio Interfaces plugged > into USB3 ports. The work around is to remove the USB3 driver and just > use the USB2 driver. This is fine for audio use, but means if you wish > to use the USB3 port for a USB hard drive on the same machine, it will > be slow (usb2 speeds). I do not know if this affects the USB2 ports on a > machine with USB3 hw, but one of the musts with USB audio is finding a > USB port with a clear IRQ... which might happen to be one of the usb3 > ports. Also there are some machines (mostly laptops) that have only USB3 > ports available. There are apparently some scanners that have problems > too. Intel has called this a "non-problem" saying the software should > just have the unit "resend" any bad packets... not low latency words. My USB2 Canoscan scanner doesn't work on my Intel laptop's USB ports at all; either 2 or 3. My USB 1.1 (UCA-202) audio card works fine on Intel USB3 ports. One issue that I think may complicate audio things on modern laptops is that the built-in webcams may also be connected via USB. (Such is true on my laptop, which uses an Intel motherboard.) > If USB3.1 has a new plug format, it will be usb3 only and this may force > the audio interface producers to design a USB3 audio interface that may > not have these problems. They have not done so at this time because > there is no need to, the USB3 spec does not add anything for the audio > world. A laptop with no usb1/2 ports might change that. An audio IF that > plugged into a USB2 hub plugged into a USB3 port is probably not a good > low latency audio solution. My card has never worked well when plugged into a USB2 hub that connects to a USB2 port on the laptop. Even before USB3. I think I saw a comment in the Intel USB3 driver code that the USB3 standard doesn't propagate device resets down the chain. So if you have an external hub attached and the onboard USB3 hub is reset, the external hub is not informed for the reset. So if your audio card is hanging off an external hub, it sounds to me like it would never get a reset signal unless you power cycle the hub it's attached to? > I had not heard of the insertion count thing before. That is good to > know. For a lot of people it will not matter as they only plug things in > once and leave them. But for mobile use it sound like spending the extra > for reliablility is worth while. I wonder what the numbers are for the > standard "D" conectors are (like serial or VGA). I don't know about the insertion count thing. I don't know if Linux does the same thing, but Windows is notorious for storing a configuration for a removable device, and adamantly reusing that configuration even if the configuration is broken. I've seen that mentioned as a frequent cause of problems with HP USB multifunction devices and some USB NICs. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Sat Apr 19 23:17:11 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 13:17:11 -1000 Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? In-Reply-To: <5352B91B.4000802@ponderworthy.com> References: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53529C11.9040503@ponderworthy.com> <5352B91B.4000802@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <535303F7.1050508@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/19/2014 07:59 AM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > >>> Thanks! Do you know of any good such devices which are not very >>> pricey? I >>> found a few out there after reading your post, but they seemed all to >>> be in >>> the high-port-count and higher-cost ranges. >> >> Cheapest Audio plus midi has got to be the old ens1370 based cards... >> free if you can find it. Best 16 bit sound for the price. If you don't >> have a pci slot, then the next price range is going to be USB >> devices... because most new systems don't have a FW plug, so an >> adaptor is required. Also, USB covers more people's systems so scale >> brings prices lower too. USB midi ports can be had for less than $30. >> And of course there are lots of USB audio solutions out there >> including built right into the mic stuff, again under $100. USB audio >> is much more picky about system tuning for low latency. >> >> Assuming you already have a FW port, it is a better solution than USB, >> but even a 2+2+midi FW unit will cost more than the USB 2+2+midi unit. >> The Focusrite line starts with the pro 14 at $260. They call it 8in >> and 6 out, but I only see 6 physical inputs (and two of those are >> s/pdif i/o so only 4 i/o for analog) at $260... yet they sell the 2i2 >> for usb for $150 or so. Presonus is the same, their "Firestudio >> mobile" is similar features and price to the pro 14 and the price >> matches too. (just note that it seems to need breakout cables to get >> at all the ports... including MIDI) Their audiobox USB (2+2+midi) can >> be had for $140. >> >> So, yes FW costs more, but works better/easier. In the end you have to >> decide how important moneywise these things are to you. The presonus >> USB has been very good and stable... except in USB3 ports on Intel >> USB3 ports which are... broken at least for low latency audio (Intel >> agrees). > That helps a lot. Had not heard that USB3 was broken for low-latency > audio, I'll have to remember that. The reason I'm suddenly interested > in Firewire though, is something I read recently: 6-pin Firewire ports > are generally rated for 50,000 insertions, which is literally five times > the very best of the USB1 or USB2 standards (the best USB is, > interestingly, microUSB, at 10,000). I have been wearing out USB-A > ports and cable ends at a disturbing rate on this mobile rig, and on a > hunch checked Firewire ratings, and remain quite shocked. Hmmm. My previous laptop lasted almost 10 years. I took it back and forth with me to work, where it sat playing music for me. So the USB connections were being plugged and unplugged at least 3x a day, 5 days a week. 6 days a week when I started using it to record our church services. The connectors and cables lasted fine the whole time. They outlasted the motherboard power connector! -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From kevinc at cosgroves.us Sat Apr 19 23:27:22 2014 From: kevinc at cosgroves.us (Kevin Cosgrove) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 16:27:22 -0700 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux Message-ID: <20140419232722.697B1BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Could someone point me to some reference material to get MIDI hardware up and running on my Linux system? I knew how to do this just fine about 3 rev's of Ardour and 1 major rev of the kernel ago. Unfortunately, all the documentation I'm finding is 7-10 years old. I'm trying to figure out how to interconnect the *MIDI* of the following: - M-Audio Delta 1010 hardware MIDI ports - Mackie Control Universal hardware MIDI ports - Alesis QS8 hardware synth - a2jmidid software MIDI interface - Ardour jack-MIDI ports What can you folks advise? Thanks... -- Kevin From atte at youmail.dk Sun Apr 20 01:36:16 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 03:36:16 +0200 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: References: <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> <534FDF4D.3020602@youmail.dk> <53501535.90700@dadacafe.org> <53516E7C.5000902@youmail.dk> <53528499.8050004@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <53532490.1020907@youmail.dk> On 04/19/2014 06:36 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > So some of us are "handicapped" when it comes to commenting on > commercial SW. Fair enough! To me the $60 for a license was not nearly enough to stop me. I use my DAW(s) *alot* I even make some money with it from time to time, so I simply need something that works. I feel bitwig is expensive at 300 euros is a bit expensive, though... -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 20 01:49:37 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 03:49:37 +0200 Subject: [LAU] JACK MIDI latency -- was Re: Concerning schedtool In-Reply-To: <5352B6CC.2000106@gareus.org> References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <5352848D.3040503@autostatic.com> <53528B69.6050404@gareus.org> <1397924282.2443.6.camel@archlinux> <5352B6CC.2000106@gareus.org> Message-ID: <1397958577.7164.5.camel@archlinux> IIUC we are not talking about the same alsarawmidi. On Sat, 2014-04-19 at 18:18 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > jackd --sync -Xalsarawmidi -dalsa -r$sample_rate -p$frames_period ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ On Sat, 2014-04-19 at 19:47 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > jackd -S -dalsa -dhw:2 -r48000 -p64 -n2 -Xraw ^^^^^^ ^^^^^ Take a look at an older thread: From: Devin Anderson To: Paul Davis Cc: Ralf Mardorf, linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org Subject: Re: [LAU] midi backend not working in qjackctl? Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 10:00:50 -0700 On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 9:04 AM, Paul Davis wrote: > On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 11:52 AM, Ralf Mardorf > wrote: > >> Especially in combination with Jack2's -Xalsarawmidi you'll get zero >> hw MIDI jitter, aka hard real-time. > > I don't know if this is the new code that was added recently. > > If its the old stuff then it absolutely is not zero jitter. You're > confused about the difference between "real time", "low latency" and > "jitter". The whole problem of the old code is that was absolutely > "deliver it as fast as possible" and that is precisely is what causes > jitter. The 'alsarawmidi' slave driver in JACK 2 does not have this problem. It postpones the delivery of events based on the audio buffer size. Back in April, when I requested MIDI latency/jitter test results for the driver, I saw peak jitter results as low as 60 microseconds. The 'seq' and 'raw' drivers attached to the ALSA audio driver still suffer from this problem. -- Devin Anderson surfacepatterns (at) gmail (dot) com blog - http://surfacepatterns.blogspot.com/ synthclone - http://synthclone.googlecode.com/ From silvain at freeshell.de Sun Apr 20 05:54:11 2014 From: silvain at freeshell.de (F. Silvain) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 07:54:11 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <20140419232722.697B1BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> References: <20140419232722.697B1BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: <1404200738500.28538@freeshell.de> Kevin Cosgrove, Apr 20 2014: ... > I'm trying to figure out how to interconnect the *MIDI* of the following: > > - M-Audio Delta 1010 hardware MIDI ports > - Mackie Control Universal hardware MIDI ports > - Alesis QS8 hardware synth > - a2jmidid software MIDI interface > - Ardour jack-MIDI ports > > What can you folks advise? Hey Kevin, I've got the same card and I use MIDI everytime I work with my system. Why do you use a2jmidid, when JACK has its own option? jackd ... -Xseq Valid for JACK1 and JACK2 (JACKmp). I don't have an external mixer (I assume the Mackie is one) but I have synths. Depending on the software I'm running I use jack_connect or any patchbay I like or the software itself offers a way to connect to a jACK port directly. I've never used Ardour, so no help there. If there is a particular problem along the way it will be easier to answer. I hope this helped some. > > Thanks... > > -- > Kevin Ta-ta ---- Ffanci * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 20 06:58:50 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 08:58:50 +0200 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <1404200738500.28538@freeshell.de> References: <20140419232722.697B1BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <1404200738500.28538@freeshell.de> Message-ID: <1397977130.7164.7.camel@archlinux> On Sun, 2014-04-20 at 07:54 +0200, F. Silvain wrote: > Why do you use a2jmidid, when JACK has its own option? > jackd ... -Xseq I can't speak for the OP, but at least for jack2 some time a go it was wise to use -Xalsarawmidi + a2jmidid, regarding to accuracy. From jamesmstone at gmail.com Sun Apr 20 07:01:22 2014 From: jamesmstone at gmail.com (James Stone) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 08:01:22 +0100 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <53532490.1020907@youmail.dk> References: <534E802E.6070108@youmail.dk> <534E8791.5080905@youmail.dk> <534ECB5D.9080104@youmail.dk> <534EF929.8040003@youmail.dk> <534FD1B5.9080704@youmail.dk> <534FDF4D.3020602@youmail.dk> <53501535.90700@dadacafe.org> <53516E7C.5000902@youmail.dk> <53528499.8050004@youmail.dk> <53532490.1020907@youmail.dk> Message-ID: On 20 Apr 2014 02:36, "Atte" wrote: > > On 04/19/2014 06:36 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > >> So some of us are "handicapped" when it comes to commenting on >> commercial SW. > > > Fair enough! > > To me the $60 for a license was not nearly enough to stop me. I use my DAW(s) *alot* I even make some money with it from time to time, so I simply need something that works. I feel bitwig is expensive at 300 euros is a bit expensive, though... > It's completely free to try Reaper tho.. I did try it a while back but stopped after only a short try out because I couldn't work out how to do audio punch-in recording (also a problem with qtractor and rosegarden for me last time I tried it). Also there was some suggestion that reaper on wine didn't scale that well with multiple tracks vs. Windows. Didn't have a change to test that tho. I also got too caught up with trying which vsts I could get to work stably and wasted a lot of time!!! In the end I do most of my live recordings in mixbus which is quite good but fairly heavy to run, and no midi, which is a bit of a problem but jack transport with hydrogen/seq24 is quite good. Last time I tried ardour 3 it wasn't quite there for me. For electronic or loop-based live instruments I still think renoise is the best option. J -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philcm at gnu.org Sun Apr 20 10:35:32 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Philippe Coatmeur) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 11:35:32 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Two songs made in Qtractor : Takkadum & Kleb Station Message-ID: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> Hi there Takkadum was made mid 2011 right before Automation was available, around 0.4.something, I guess 18 tracks : 10 MIDI tracks and 8 audio ones (using flac containers) ; * One 3 channels bus to sidechain-compress the 303-style bass (nekobee ) with the kick (a free 808 Sound font played by fluidsynth) using SC3 * the other cheap DR55 Beat elements are made with Rudolf 556 * A Hexter synth is doubling the bass in the subs * The organ is a Calf organ * The Lead synth is a Calf Monosynth * The guitar is a g10 double coil Ibanez in a focusrite preamp * The microphone is a chinese Neumann knockoff in a focusrite preamp * The girl asking "what" ? in the background is called Fatima-Zohra * Everybody is EQ'd with LADSPA C* 10 bands Equalizer from CAPS * Everybody is comp'd with Calf compressor DSSI * There is a LADSPA "Fast lookahead limiter" on the master out bus * The final bounce, a "normalize" and a quick and dirty fade out are made in Audacity Kleb Station (summer 2011 too) uses pretty much the same setup with more instruments plugged in, a little automation (it was just out, and already worked really good) and sidechain-ducked bass ; I play on all the tracks. BTW the CMS linked is a personal developpement, that automatically builds album pages by reading the tags (and optional - cover & stuff - images). It's yours if you want it. I used GNU / Linux to make music since around the time Jack was introduced. I spent coutless nights teaching myself how to use just about every single system available, and I always came back to Qtractor. Everything makes sense in Qtractor. And when it seems that it doesn't, a quick message on Rui Nuno's blog and you're out of the hole. The development is steady, focusing only on the core of the matter, and the result is a solid system, usable right now. Qtractor does not even try to be /everything/, it wants to be useful in the middle of the huge Linux audio production ecosystem, talking nice to everybody, implementing new techs & protocols silently, never breaking what's worked so far, bringing it all together. For me, it's the standard against witch I can compare everything else. Philippe (xaccrocheur) -- Philippe Coatmeur * http://opensimo.org/adamweb/ * https://github.com/xaccrocheur * http://opensimo.org/play -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From louigi.verona at gmail.com Sun Apr 20 10:40:42 2014 From: louigi.verona at gmail.com (Louigi Verona) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 14:40:42 +0400 Subject: [LAU] Two songs made in Qtractor : Takkadum & Kleb Station In-Reply-To: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> References: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> Message-ID: Very nice! Impressive! L.V. On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Philippe Coatmeur wrote: > Hi there > > Takkadum was made > mid 2011 right before Automation was available, around 0.4.something, I > guess > > 18 tracks : 10 MIDI tracks and 8 audio ones (using flac containers) ; > > - One 3 channels bus to sidechain-compress the 303-style bass (nekobee) > with the kick (a free 808 Sound font played by fluidsynth) using SC3 > - the other cheap DR55 Beat elements are made with Rudolf 556 > - A Hexter synth is doubling > the bass in the subs > - The organ is a Calf organ > - The Lead synth is a Calf Monosynth > - The guitar is a g10 double coil Ibanez in a focusrite preamp > - The microphone is a chinese Neumann knockoff in a focusrite preamp > - The girl asking "what" ? in the background is called Fatima-Zohra > - Everybody is EQ'd with LADSPA C* 10 bands Equalizer from CAPS > - Everybody is comp'd with Calf compressor DSSI > - There is a LADSPA "Fast lookahead limiter" on the master out bus > - The final bounce, a "normalize" and a quick and dirty fade out are > made in Audacity > > Kleb Station (summer 2011 too) uses pretty > much the same setup with more > instrumentsplugged in, a little automation (it was just out, and already worked really > good) and sidechain-ducked bass ; I play on all the tracks. > > BTW the CMS linked is a personal > developpement, that automatically builds album pages by reading the tags > (and optional - cover & stuff - images). It's yours if you want it. > > I used GNU / Linux to make music since around the time Jack was > introduced. I spent coutless nights teaching myself how to use just about > every single system available, and I always came back to Qtractor. > Everything makes sense in Qtractor. And when it seems that it doesn't, a > quick message on Rui Nuno's blog and you're out of the hole. > > The development is steady, focusing only on the core of the matter, and > the result is a solid system, usable right now. > > Qtractor does not even try to be *everything*, it wants to be useful in > the middle of the huge Linux audio production ecosystem, talking nice to > everybody, implementing new techs & protocols silently, never breaking > what's worked so far, bringing it all together. For me, it's the standard > against witch I can compare everything else. > > Philippe (xaccrocheur) > > -- > Philippe Coatmeur > > * http://opensimo.org/adamweb/ > * https://github.com/xaccrocheur > * http://opensimo.org/play > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > -- Louigi Verona http://www.louigiverona.ru/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From silvain at freeshell.de Sun Apr 20 11:02:50 2014 From: silvain at freeshell.de (F. Silvain) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 13:02:50 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] Two songs made in Qtractor : Takkadum & Kleb Station In-Reply-To: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> References: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> Message-ID: <1404201259360.3547@freeshell.de> Philippe Coatmeur, Apr 20 2014: > Hi there > > Takkadum was made mid > 2011 right before Automation was available, around 0.4.something, I guess Hey Philippe, I listened to all seven songs. Nice! Feel rather raw in places, although you embedded some nice effects and other details. Even though I'm not particularly fond of those samplebased 80s drum machines, I like the way you encorporate them. Hope to hear more from you in future! ... Ta-ta ---- Ffanci * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain From philcm at gnu.org Sun Apr 20 12:08:09 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Philippe Coatmeur) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 13:08:09 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Two songs made in Qtractor : Takkadum & Kleb Station In-Reply-To: References: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> Message-ID: <5353B8A9.9090102@gnu.org> On 04/20/2014 11:40 AM, Louigi Verona wrote: > Very nice! Impressive! Wow, thanks a lot Louigi, I can't feel my head right now. BTW, I wanted to tell you that following on your enthousiastic and enlightened article about harmonyseq , I made a quick (and quite free-wheeled) tutorial / workshop for it. It's in French, but Rafa? read it though google translate and found it cool ; I'm just saying. Phil > > L.V. > > > On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Philippe Coatmeur > wrote: > > Hi there > > Takkadum > was made mid 2011 right before Automation was available, around > 0.4.something, I guess > > 18 tracks : 10 MIDI tracks and 8 audio ones (using flac containers) ; > > * One 3 channels bus to sidechain-compress the 303-style bass > (nekobee ) > with the kick (a free 808 Sound font played by fluidsynth) > using SC3 > > * the other cheap DR55 Beat elements are made with Rudolf 556 > > * A Hexter synth is > doubling the bass in the subs > * The organ is a Calf organ > * The Lead synth is a Calf Monosynth > * The guitar is a g10 double coil Ibanez in a focusrite preamp > * The microphone is a chinese Neumann knockoff in a focusrite preamp > * The girl asking "what" ? in the background is called Fatima-Zohra > * Everybody is EQ'd with LADSPA C* 10 bands Equalizer from CAPS > * Everybody is comp'd with Calf compressor DSSI > * There is a LADSPA "Fast lookahead limiter" on the master out bus > * The final bounce, a "normalize" and a quick and dirty fade out > are made in Audacity > > Kleb Station > (summer > 2011 too) uses pretty much the same setup > with more instruments > > plugged in, a little automation (it was just out, and already > worked really good) and sidechain-ducked bass ; I play on all the > tracks. > > BTW the CMS linked is a personal > developpement, that automatically builds album pages by reading > the tags (and optional - cover & stuff - images). It's yours if > you want it. > > I used GNU / Linux to make music since around the time Jack was > introduced. I spent coutless nights teaching myself how to use > just about every single system available, and I always came back > to Qtractor. Everything makes sense in Qtractor. And when it seems > that it doesn't, a quick message on Rui Nuno's blog and you're out > of the hole. > > The development is steady, focusing only on the core of the > matter, and the result is a solid system, usable right now. > > Qtractor does not even try to be /everything/, it wants to be > useful in the middle of the huge Linux audio production ecosystem, > talking nice to everybody, implementing new techs & protocols > silently, never breaking what's worked so far, bringing it all > together. For me, it's the standard against witch I can compare > everything else. > > Philippe (xaccrocheur) > > -- > Philippe Coatmeur > > *http://opensimo.org/adamweb/ > *https://github.com/xaccrocheur > *http://opensimo.org/play > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > > > > -- > Louigi Verona > http://www.louigiverona.ru/ -- Philippe Coatmeur +212 (0)6 10 64 73 72 +212 (0)5 37 78 55 46 * http://opensimo.org/adamweb/ * https://github.com/xaccrocheur * http://opensimo.org/play -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philcm at gnu.org Sun Apr 20 12:15:38 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Philippe Coatmeur) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 13:15:38 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Two songs made in Qtractor : Takkadum & Kleb Station In-Reply-To: <1404201259360.3547@freeshell.de> References: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> <1404201259360.3547@freeshell.de> Message-ID: <5353BA6A.7020903@gnu.org> On 04/20/2014 12:02 PM, F. Silvain wrote: > Philippe Coatmeur, Apr 20 2014: > >> Hi there >> >> Takkadum was >> made mid 2011 right before Automation was available, around >> 0.4.something, I guess > Hey Philippe, > I listened to all seven songs. Not all songs were made in Qtractor, only the two listed. The other ones are mainly done in Cubase and Ableton Live (those were dark & tedious dual-booting years) before I could really "master" (hum) the whole GnuJack shebang :) > Nice! Feel rather raw in places, It is. I rarely do more than two guitar or bass takes. I'm a lazy and dirty bluesman and I will pay for it when my time comes. > although you embedded some nice effects and other details. Even though > I'm not particularly fond of those samplebased 80s drum machines, I > like the way you encorporate them. Hope to hear more from you in future! Thank you very much, it's nice to read that really. I make music with the vague hope that something is re-usable in it for people who listen to it. I listen to music in that same way too. I'm currently working on an album. I need music to work / code. > ... > > Ta-ta Pouet-Pouet :) Phil > ---- > Ffanci > * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain -- Philippe Coatmeur +212 (0)6 10 64 73 72 +212 (0)5 37 78 55 46 * http://opensimo.org/adamweb/ * https://github.com/xaccrocheur * http://opensimo.org/play From robin at gareus.org Sun Apr 20 13:38:19 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 15:38:19 +0200 Subject: [LAU] JACK MIDI latency -- was Re: Concerning schedtool In-Reply-To: <1397958577.7164.5.camel@archlinux> References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <5352848D.3040503@autostatic.com> <53528B69.6050404@gareus.org> <1397924282.2443.6.camel@archlinux> <5352B6CC.2000106@gareus.org> <1397958577.7164.5.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <5353CDCB.8070607@gareus.org> On 04/20/2014 03:49 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > IIUC we are not talking about the same alsarawmidi. > > On Sat, 2014-04-19 at 18:18 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> > jackd --sync -Xalsarawmidi -dalsa -r$sample_rate -p$frames_period > ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > On Sat, 2014-04-19 at 19:47 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: >> > jackd -S -dalsa -dhw:2 -r48000 -p64 -n2 -Xraw ^^^^^^ ^^^^^ it prints JackALSARawMidiDriver::Start - Starting 'alsarawmidi' driver. JackALSARawMidiDriver::Start - starting ALSA thread ... JackALSARawMidiDriver::Start - started ALSA thread. as part of the startup message. -Xraw is needed because otherwise I don't get any midi ports at all. fPlaybackChannels and fCaptureChannels in /linux/alsarawmidi/JackALSARawMidiDriver.cpp are zero otherwise. Devin wrote: > when I requested MIDI latency/jitter test results for > the driver, I saw peak jitter results as low as 60 microseconds. The jitter measurement here using alsarawmidi is 100 us stddev over 10K events, 3 bytes each (using a USB2 device - details in prev email). That's not far off from what Devin quoted, but without knowing what and how he measured it, I can't comment on it. ciao, robin From jeremy at autostatic.com Sun Apr 20 13:42:19 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 15:42:19 +0200 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <1397977130.7164.7.camel@archlinux> References: <20140419232722.697B1BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <1404200738500.28538@freeshell.de> <1397977130.7164.7.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <5353CEBB.6090509@autostatic.com> On 04/20/2014 08:58 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I can't speak for the OP, but at least for jack2 some time a go it was > wise to use -Xalsarawmidi + a2jmidid, regarding to accuracy. I thought you only needed either a2jmidid or -Xalsarawmidi but not both? Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jeremy at autostatic.com Sun Apr 20 13:48:59 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 15:48:59 +0200 Subject: [LAU] JACK MIDI latency -- was Re: Concerning schedtool In-Reply-To: <5353CDCB.8070607@gareus.org> References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <5352848D.3040503@autostatic.com> <53528B69.6050404@gareus.org> <1397924282.2443.6.camel@archlinux> <5352B6CC.2000106@gareus.org> <1397958577.7164.5.camel@archlinux> <5353CDCB.8070607@gareus.org> Message-ID: <5353D04B.50709@autostatic.com> On 04/20/2014 03:38 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: > -Xraw is needed because otherwise I don't get any midi ports at all. > fPlaybackChannels and fCaptureChannels in > /linux/alsarawmidi/JackALSARawMidiDriver.cpp are zero > otherwise. That's weird, it works for me (with a slightly old version of Jack2 though). How did you measure the MIDI jitter btw? Thanks, Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From robin at gareus.org Sun Apr 20 13:59:52 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 15:59:52 +0200 Subject: [LAU] JACK MIDI latency -- was Re: Concerning schedtool In-Reply-To: <5353D04B.50709@autostatic.com> References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <5352848D.3040503@autostatic.com> <53528B69.6050404@gareus.org> <1397924282.2443.6.camel@archlinux> <5352B6CC.2000106@gareus.org> <1397958577.7164.5.camel@archlinux> <5353CDCB.8070607@gareus.org> <5353D04B.50709@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <5353D2D8.8040203@gareus.org> On 04/20/2014 03:48 PM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: Hi Jeremy, > How did you measure the MIDI jitter btw? see the OP for details http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2014-April/097296.html in short: get https://github.com/x42/jack_midi_latency alike jack_delay: connect a cable from the physical midi-out back to midi-in on your soundcard and run ./jack_midi_latency -i system:midi_capture_1 -o system:midi_playback_1 or similar, check jack_midi_latency --help, manually connecting the ports works as well. Cheers! robin From jeremy at autostatic.com Sun Apr 20 14:02:24 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 16:02:24 +0200 Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? In-Reply-To: References: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53529C11.9040503@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <5353D370.9020709@autostatic.com> On 04/19/2014 07:13 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > except in USB3 ports on Intel USB3 ports which are... broken at least > for low latency audio (Intel agrees). No issues here on a notebook with Intel 3rd Gen Core processor (that's Ivy Bridge right?) tech in it. My notebook at work with Haswell ULX tech has no issues either. Could you ground your conclusion with relevant articles? Bye, Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jeremy at autostatic.com Sun Apr 20 14:05:00 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 16:05:00 +0200 Subject: [LAU] JACK MIDI latency -- was Re: Concerning schedtool In-Reply-To: <5353D2D8.8040203@gareus.org> References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <5352848D.3040503@autostatic.com> <53528B69.6050404@gareus.org> <1397924282.2443.6.camel@archlinux> <5352B6CC.2000106@gareus.org> <1397958577.7164.5.camel@archlinux> <5353CDCB.8070607@gareus.org> <5353D04B.50709@autostatic.com> <5353D2D8.8040203@gareus.org> Message-ID: <5353D40C.202@autostatic.com> On 04/20/2014 03:59 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: > On 04/20/2014 03:48 PM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > > Hi Jeremy, > >> How did you measure the MIDI jitter btw? > > see the OP for details > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2014-April/097296.html > > in short: > get https://github.com/x42/jack_midi_latency > > alike jack_delay: connect a cable from the physical midi-out back to > midi-in on your soundcard and run > > ./jack_midi_latency -i system:midi_capture_1 -o system:midi_playback_1 > > or similar, check jack_midi_latency --help, manually connecting the > ports works as well. > > Cheers! > robin > Thanks a lot Robin! Overlooked the link, too much scanning, too little reading :) Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jeremy at autostatic.com Sun Apr 20 14:08:50 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 16:08:50 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Concerning schedtool In-Reply-To: <1397920646412.f8782e8b56a3e@mozgaia> References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53525088.8030300@gareus.org> <1397920646412.f8782e8b56a3e@mozgaia> Message-ID: <5353D4F2.8090800@autostatic.com> On 04/19/2014 05:04 PM, csan wrote: > In my experiments with a Raspberry PI as a headless FX pedalboard+looper for live jamming I don't use nohup/schedule commands on my scripts, and I've achieved an acceptable RT system with really low latency. I'm constantly improving it anyway, but it seems that disabling some services and tweaking jack1 is enough. > Yay, another guitarist playing around with a RPi! > Hopefully I'll be releasing some scripts and apps when I can do some code cleanup to release them properly. That'd be great, please do so. Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From robin at gareus.org Sun Apr 20 14:11:42 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 16:11:42 +0200 Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? In-Reply-To: <5352325A.2020507@stackingdwarves.net> References: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <5352325A.2020507@stackingdwarves.net> Message-ID: <5353D59E.3040907@gareus.org> On 04/19/2014 10:22 AM, J?rn Nettingsmeier wrote: > On 04/19/2014 03:43 AM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: >> I realized there was a possibly significant gap in my knowledge of >> hardware, so I searched, and found that there have been a few Firewire >> devices with both audio and MIDI. The questions I have are (a) are any >> of them known to work well with current Linux, and (b) how is the MIDI >> supported on the backend, is it ALSA? > > i have used focusrite sapphires with good success, both the now > discontinued pro26 and the pro56. FFADO makes midi available as a > jackmidi port, so (as others have noted) you will need to run aj2midid > -e to bridge them to ALSA sequencer clients. i just added it as a > post-startup command in qjackctl and forgot about it. > can't comment on MIDI timing performance, i only ever used it for > controllers, but i don't see any reason to have doubts. > One of the great things about Firewire Audio is the iso-synchronous protocol that is used there. Audio + Midi are sent in the same data-stream, interleaved. As opposed to most PCI and USB sound-cards firewire midi is not a separated on the bus or data-link level. It still depends on what the hardware does but everything starting at the firewire-end all the way up to jack-midi can be in perfect sync, zero jitter, identical latency as audio. best, robin From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Apr 20 14:57:38 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 16:57:38 +0200 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <5353CEBB.6090509@autostatic.com> References: <20140419232722.697B1BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <1404200738500.28538@freeshell.de> <1397977130.7164.7.camel@archlinux> <5353CEBB.6090509@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <1398005858.1007.10.camel@archlinux> On Sun, 2014-04-20 at 15:42 +0200, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > On 04/20/2014 08:58 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > I can't speak for the OP, but at least for jack2 some time a go it was > > wise to use -Xalsarawmidi + a2jmidid, regarding to accuracy. > > I thought you only needed either a2jmidid or -Xalsarawmidi but not both? $ jackd --sync -Xalsarawmidi -dalsa -r48000 -p256 The goal was to get hard-realtime quality for the MIDI hardware IOs by alsarawmidi. To get Qtractor jack midi ports a bridge was needed, alsarawmidi didn't provide it. I don't know what the current situation is. I guess I mentioned several times that only 2 of 8 ADAT ports of my RME card are available by jackd and that there are always xruns when using the RME card, so I don't use the computer to make music that much. IOW I don't have experiences with current jackd versions. From len at ovenwerks.net Sun Apr 20 15:35:12 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 08:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? In-Reply-To: <5353D370.9020709@autostatic.com> References: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53529C11.9040503@ponderworthy.com> <5353D370.9020709@autostatic.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Apr 2014, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > On 04/19/2014 07:13 PM, Len Ovens wrote: >> except in USB3 ports on Intel USB3 ports which are... broken at least >> for low latency audio (Intel agrees). > > No issues here on a notebook with Intel 3rd Gen Core processor (that's > Ivy Bridge right?) tech in it. My notebook at work with Haswell ULX tech > has no issues either. Could you ground your conclusion with relevant > articles? https://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/33427.page Is a good start. It has links to other resources as well. This has started to be an issue in linux starting with kernel 3.13 or so (at least that is where I see the bug reports lp: #1308628, It could be earlier as the reporter was using 3.2 before upgrade) when the USB3 driver xchi-hda shows up. (that seems to indicate to me that earlier kernels do not support USB3) Mother board manufactures may choose to use other HW for their USB3 ports even with the ivy bridge chip. This would not affect USB1.1 audio stuff and may not affect all USB2 audio gear either. It has affected both native instruments and presonus interfaces though. In the windows world, it seems there have been driver changes to fix this. In all I know less than I would like. I do not have any USB2 audio gear, or any USB3 ports. My take on the Intel possition is that once the chip is out it can't really be fixed so call it "not a problem". Fix it in the next version. A recall on chips that are soldered to the board is even harder than just the pluggable cpu and it affects a very small percentage of users. Even in the audio community USB2 audio device users with no option but usb3 ports is small. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From blablack at gmail.com Sun Apr 20 16:20:55 2014 From: blablack at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Aur=C3=A9lien_Leblond?=) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 17:20:55 +0100 Subject: [LAU] ams-lv2 ingen patches Message-ID: > The ingen patches in this page are no longer available: > http://objectivewave.wordpress.com/ams-lv2/ > > I'd like to try them. > Can someone re-upload them please? > Thanks! Hi Filipe, I re-uploaded them at this URL (and updated the website) http://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0MzqOV96twBS0xNVlB1Mmg4TnM Aur?lien From jeremy at autostatic.com Sun Apr 20 17:53:52 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 19:53:52 +0200 Subject: [LAU] MIDI over firewire on Linux? In-Reply-To: References: <81026274b3d848458851e6a238491833@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53529C11.9040503@ponderworthy.com> <5353D370.9020709@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <535409B0.80101@autostatic.com> On 04/20/2014 05:35 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > > On Sun, 20 Apr 2014, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > >> On 04/19/2014 07:13 PM, Len Ovens wrote: >>> except in USB3 ports on Intel USB3 ports which are... broken at least >>> for low latency audio (Intel agrees). >> >> No issues here on a notebook with Intel 3rd Gen Core processor (that's >> Ivy Bridge right?) tech in it. My notebook at work with Haswell ULX tech >> has no issues either. Could you ground your conclusion with relevant >> articles? > > https://forums.presonus.com/posts/list/33427.page > Thanks! I was already familiar with that thread. I need to do some more reading but so far I see a lot of assumptions, no solid proof. > Is a good start. It has links to other resources as well. This has > started to be an issue in linux starting with kernel 3.13 or so (at > least that is where I see the bug reports lp: #1308628, It could be > earlier as the reporter was using 3.2 before upgrade) when the USB3 > driver xchi-hda shows up. (that seems to indicate to me that earlier > kernels do not support USB3) http://cateee.net/lkddb/web-lkddb/USB_XHCI_HCD.html So since 3.7. Mother board manufactures may choose to use > other HW for their USB3 ports even with the ivy bridge chip. This would > not affect USB1.1 audio stuff and may not affect all USB2 audio gear > either. It has affected both native instruments and presonus interfaces > though. In the windows world, it seems there have been driver changes to > fix this. > > In all I know less than I would like. I do not have any USB2 audio gear, > or any USB3 ports. My take on the Intel possition is that once the chip > is out it can't really be fixed so call it "not a problem". Fix it in > the next version. A recall on chips that are soldered to the board is > even harder than just the pluggable cpu and it affects a very small > percentage of users. Even in the audio community USB2 audio device users > with no option but usb3 ports is small. I guess I'm not the first and also not the only one who owns an Intel based notebook with only USB3 ports. And in my case my USB2 audio interface works very well. Jeremy > > -- > Len Ovens > www.ovenwerks.net > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jeb at ponderworthy.com Sun Apr 20 19:48:19 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 19:48:19 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Firewire at last Message-ID: <53542403.7060903@ponderworthy.com> Almost a week ago, I finally got around to ordering Firewire, in the form of the Behringer FCA202. And I have to admit that I am quite shocked with how well this unit, the least expensive new Firewire interface of which I am aware, is working. I had not before heard of any expression "Once you try Firewire, you don't go back," but certainly I won't be going back by choice. It was a simple lock-and-load, no adjustments other than telling the modules to load at boot and setting the Jack driver to firewire, and the result was astonishing, beautiful quality sound, zero hiccups, no problems at all, all load levels. And I don't have to worry about its USB A port! Yahoo!!!!! And it is interesting, it is by way of this FCA202 that I learned that although the Zitas were working, there was additional latency occurring in the jack-to-zita offload. It was audible but barely, which presumably means something like 4-6ms. My testbed for that is playing a MIDI keyboard in piano mode while simultaneously sending the MIDI data to drive the synth; I play live like that fairly often, and although the tiniest difference in attack is acceptable, the Zita method was giving me a bit more, which I brought to almost-AOK by giving the Zita process 80-level priority in schedtool, but which the FCA202 knocked out of the park. I played through the FCA202 this morning, and it was astonishing, the detail of the tone quality, in both highs and lows. And I haven't even tried 96 kHz yet :-) I do not know frankly know whether my Yoshimis and Fluidsynths will play ball well with 96 kHz, I do not know whether it is a very tested configuration. -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeb at ponderworthy.com Sun Apr 20 20:01:37 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 20:01:37 +0000 Subject: [LAU] A "silence signal"? Message-ID: <53542722.3030409@ponderworthy.com> Is there such a thing as a "silence signal" in Jack? In the real world obviously not, silence is the absence of sound pressure, but in Jack shouldn't it be possible to fill the channel with 48 kHz (or whatever) of zeroes? And more importantly, does anyone have an easy way to do this??? (Or is it already being done?) I am hearing some faint things in my output that I cannot explain, and a 'silence generator' (if the concept in fact makes sense) would help me figure this out. -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harryhaaren at gmail.com Sun Apr 20 20:07:19 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 21:07:19 +0100 Subject: [LAU] A "silence signal"? In-Reply-To: <53542722.3030409@ponderworthy.com> References: <53542722.3030409@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: Just start jack: it "outputs" silence so to speak. Jack clients output is then added to the silence, when you make a connection. So to speak: there is some extra processing that can be avoided in the implementation, but that's not what the question is about here now :) Hth, -Harry -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeb at ponderworthy.com Sun Apr 20 20:48:15 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 20:48:15 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Firewire to USB adapter? Message-ID: <53543210.2080608@ponderworthy.com> Anyone know how well Firewire interfaces perform, when connected to a USB 2.0 port (or even a USB 3 port?) using something like this: http://www.amazon.com/CE-Compass-Firewire-Female-Adapter/dp/B00B1OQUS0/ref=sr_1_1/177-5786968-8706850?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1398026715&sr=1-1&keywords=firewire+adapter+to+usb I suppose one of those could possibly solve the USB timing problems; anyone have experiences? -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin at gareus.org Sun Apr 20 20:49:32 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 22:49:32 +0200 Subject: [LAU] A "silence signal"? In-Reply-To: References: <53542722.3030409@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <535432DC.8060501@gareus.org> On 04/20/2014 10:07 PM, Harry van Haaren wrote: > Just start jack: it "outputs" silence so to speak. Jack clients output is > then added to the silence, when you make a connection. > > So to speak: there is some extra processing that can be avoided in the > implementation, but that's not what the question is about here now :) > > Hth, -Harry > if for whatever reason you need a jack-port that provides explicit silence: cat /dev/zero | jack-stdin silence but you may just as well leave the target port disconnected, as Harry said it's silent by default. ciao, robin From bob at mellowood.ca Sun Apr 20 21:43:52 2014 From: bob at mellowood.ca (Bob van der Poel) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 14:43:52 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Firewire to USB adapter? In-Reply-To: <53543210.2080608@ponderworthy.com> References: <53543210.2080608@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: Read the Amazon reviews ... this doesn't convert much, except maybe a cable (but then you'd need one on each end). It's function is a mystery. On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > Anyone know how well Firewire interfaces perform, when connected to a USB > 2.0 port (or even a USB 3 port?) using something like this: > > http://www.amazon.com/CE-Compass-Firewire-Female-Adapter/dp/B00B1OQUS0/ref=sr_1_1/177-5786968-8706850?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1398026715&sr=1-1&keywords=firewire+adapter+to+usb > > I suppose one of those could possibly solve the USB timing problems; anyone > have experiences? > > -- > Jonathan E. Brickman > Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | > http://ponderworthy.com > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -- **** Listen to my FREE CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob at mellowood.ca WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca From clemens at ladisch.de Sun Apr 20 21:48:39 2014 From: clemens at ladisch.de (Clemens Ladisch) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 23:48:39 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Firewire to USB adapter? In-Reply-To: <53543210.2080608@ponderworthy.com> References: <53543210.2080608@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <535440B7.6030608@ladisch.de> Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > Anyone know how well Firewire interfaces perform, when connected to > a USB 2.0 port (or even a USB 3 port?) using something like this: > > http://www.amazon.com/CE-Compass-Firewire-Female-Adapter/dp/B00B1OQUS0 Have a look at the reviews. Such an adapter will not work because the FireWire and USB protocols are completely different and cannot be mapped to each other in the general case. I don't know what that adapter is actually designed for. Maybe there are laptops that have so little space that they share a USB connector for both USB and FireWire controllers, or that thing is just meant to make the FireWire power lines available for USB charging. Regards, Clemens From kevinc at cosgroves.us Mon Apr 21 00:16:14 2014 From: kevinc at cosgroves.us (Kevin Cosgrove) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 17:16:14 -0700 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <1404200738500.28538@freeshell.de> Message-ID: <20140421001614.4BE9BBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> On 20 April 2014 at 7:54, "F. Silvain" wrote: > Kevin Cosgrove, Apr 20 2014: > ... > > I'm trying to figure out how to interconnect the *MIDI* of the following: > > > > - M-Audio Delta 1010 hardware MIDI ports > > - Mackie Control Universal hardware MIDI ports > > - Alesis QS8 hardware synth > > - a2jmidid software MIDI interface > > - Ardour jack-MIDI ports > > > > What can you folks advise? > Hey Kevin, > I've got the same card and I use MIDI everytime I work with my system. > Why do you use a2jmidid, when JACK has its own option? > jackd ... -Xseq > Valid for JACK1 and JACK2 (JACKmp). The Mackie above is a control surface. I want to use it with Ardour. Here are some instructions for that. The 1st link references the 2nd, which references the 3rd. http://manual.ardour.org/using-control-surfaces/devices-using-mackielogic-control-protocol/ http://manual.ardour.org/using-control-surfaces/devices-using-mackielogic-control-protocol/mackie-control-setup-on-linux/ http://manual.ardour.org/setting-up-your-system/setting-up-midi/midi-on-linux/ That last link says to "uncheck the Misc > Enable ALSA Sequencer support" which is the same thing as avoiding "-Xseq". After going through that, and going with "a2jmidid -e" then my Behringer BCF2000 control surface worked just fine. But, the Mackie has no USB port, only MIDI ports, and I have not been able to get anything Linux to talk to it. > I don't have an external mixer (I assume the Mackie is one) > but I have synths. Depending on the software I'm running I use > jack_connect or any patchbay I like or the software itself > offers a way to connect to a jACK port directly. I've never > used Ardour, so no help there. If there is a particular > problem along the way it will be easier to answer. I hope this > helped some. See my above Ardour <--> MIDI <--> Mackie question. Thanks... -- Kevin From abonnements at revolwear.com Mon Apr 21 01:48:05 2014 From: abonnements at revolwear.com (Max) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 10:48:05 +0900 Subject: [LAU] Firewire at last In-Reply-To: <53542403.7060903@ponderworthy.com> References: <53542403.7060903@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <535478D5.3090809@revolwear.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 looks like once a technology is obsolete and depreciated it is mature enough to run well under linux. :D On 2014? 04? 21? 04:48, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > Almost a week ago, I finally got around to ordering Firewire, in > the form of the Behringer FCA202. And I have to admit that I am > quite shocked with how well this unit, the least expensive new > Firewire interface of which I am aware, is working. I had not > before heard of any expression "Once you try Firewire, you don't go > back," but certainly I won't be going back by choice. It was a > simple lock-and-load, no adjustments other than telling the modules > to load at boot and setting the Jack driver to firewire, and the > result was astonishing, beautiful quality sound, zero hiccups, no > problems at all, all load levels. And I don't have to worry about > its USB A port! Yahoo!!!!! > > And it is interesting, it is by way of this FCA202 that I learned > that although the Zitas were working, there was additional latency > occurring in the jack-to-zita offload. It was audible but barely, > which presumably means something like 4-6ms. My testbed for that > is playing a MIDI keyboard in piano mode while simultaneously > sending the MIDI data to drive the synth; I play live like that > fairly often, and although the tiniest difference in attack is > acceptable, the Zita method was giving me a bit more, which I > brought to almost-AOK by giving the Zita process 80-level priority > in schedtool, but which the FCA202 knocked out of the park. I > played through the FCA202 this morning, and it was astonishing, the > detail of the tone quality, in both highs and lows. And I haven't > even tried 96 kHz yet :-) I do not know frankly know whether my > Yoshimis and Fluidsynths will play ball well with 96 kHz, I do not > know whether it is a very tested configuration. > > -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | > (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com > > > _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user > mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlNUeNUACgkQ3EB7kzgMM6J7iACfeHgdTlFQ4tLf/uWFCVeZNPdO bnEAn1bQBRZDD2WqSL8iDowLJvkovh6U =nC3i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From email.rafa at gmail.com Mon Apr 21 02:04:41 2014 From: email.rafa at gmail.com (Rafael Vega) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 21:04:41 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Firewire at last In-Reply-To: <535478D5.3090809@revolwear.com> References: <53542403.7060903@ponderworthy.com> <535478D5.3090809@revolwear.com> Message-ID: > > looks like once a technology is obsolete and depreciated it is mature > enough to run well under linux. > :D > Which makes me wonder... How do firewire soundcards + thunderbolt adapters + thunderbolt port work under linux? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Apr 21 02:30:41 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (gnome at hawaii.rr.com) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 2:30:41 +0000 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <20140421001614.4BE9BBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: <20140421023041.HWBIM.64646.root@cdptpa-web10> ---- Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > > On 20 April 2014 at 7:54, "F. Silvain" wrote: > > > Kevin Cosgrove, Apr 20 2014: > > ... > > > I'm trying to figure out how to interconnect the *MIDI* of the following: > > > > > > - M-Audio Delta 1010 hardware MIDI ports > > > - Mackie Control Universal hardware MIDI ports > > > - Alesis QS8 hardware synth > > > - a2jmidid software MIDI interface > > > - Ardour jack-MIDI ports > > > > > > What can you folks advise? > > Hey Kevin, > > I've got the same card and I use MIDI everytime I work with my system. > > Why do you use a2jmidid, when JACK has its own option? > > jackd ... -Xseq > > Valid for JACK1 and JACK2 (JACKmp). > > The Mackie above is a control surface. I want to use it with Ardour. > Here are some instructions for that. The 1st link references the > 2nd, which references the 3rd. > > http://manual.ardour.org/using-control-surfaces/devices-using-mackielogic-control-protocol/ > > http://manual.ardour.org/using-control-surfaces/devices-using-mackielogic-control-protocol/mackie-control-setup-on-linux/ > > http://manual.ardour.org/setting-up-your-system/setting-up-midi/midi-on-linux/ > > That last link says to "uncheck the Misc > Enable ALSA Sequencer support" > which is the same thing as avoiding "-Xseq". After going through that, > and going with "a2jmidid -e" then my Behringer BCF2000 control surface > worked just fine. > > But, the Mackie has no USB port, only MIDI ports, and I have not been > able to get anything Linux to talk to it. Did you try a USB<>MIDI connector? David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From kevinc at cosgroves.us Mon Apr 21 15:09:54 2014 From: kevinc at cosgroves.us (Kevin Cosgrove) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 08:09:54 -0700 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <20140421023041.HWBIM.64646.root@cdptpa-web10> Message-ID: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> On 21 April 2014 at 2:30, wrote: > ---- Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > > > > On 20 April 2014 at 7:54, "F. Silvain" wrote: > > > > > Kevin Cosgrove, Apr 20 2014: > > > ... > > > > I'm trying to figure out how to interconnect the *MIDI* of the following: > > > > > > > > - M-Audio Delta 1010 hardware MIDI ports > > > > - Mackie Control Universal hardware MIDI ports > > > > - Alesis QS8 hardware synth > > > > - a2jmidid software MIDI interface > > > > - Ardour jack-MIDI ports > > > > > > > > What can you folks advise? > > > Hey Kevin, > > > I've got the same card and I use MIDI everytime I work with my system. > > > Why do you use a2jmidid, when JACK has its own option? > > > jackd ... -Xseq > > > Valid for JACK1 and JACK2 (JACKmp). > > > > The Mackie above is a control surface. I want to use it with Ardour. > > Here are some instructions for that. The 1st link references the > > 2nd, which references the 3rd. > > > > http://manual.ardour.org/using-control-surfaces/devices-using-mackielogic-control-protocol/ > > > > http://manual.ardour.org/using-control-surfaces/devices-using-mackielogic-control-protocol/mackie-control-setup-on-linux/ > > > > http://manual.ardour.org/setting-up-your-system/setting-up-midi/midi-on-linux/ > > > > That last link says to "uncheck the Misc > Enable ALSA Sequencer support" > > which is the same thing as avoiding "-Xseq". After going through that, > > and going with "a2jmidid -e" then my Behringer BCF2000 control surface > > worked just fine. > > > > But, the Mackie has no USB port, only MIDI ports, and I have not been > > able to get anything Linux to talk to it. > > Did you try a USB<>MIDI connector? Not yet. I don't own one. If a USB<>MIDI device is the correct way to get MIDI hardware communication to work, then I'll get such a unit. But, I don't want to buy one for troubleshooting, if it's not needed. Is it generally agreed that a USB<>MIDI unit is needed? The last time I did this I used a Soundblaster card which had a game/MIDI port and that worked fine to communicate over MIDI. Now I have a Delta 1010 with MIDI ports. But, that's the only MIDI connected within my computer. I haven't been able to get that to work for me. So far, nobody suggested that this shouldn't work, nor how to get it to work, if it's supposed to work. Thanks... -- Kevin From rob at rektau.ukfsn.org Mon Apr 21 15:35:17 2014 From: rob at rektau.ukfsn.org (rob) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 16:35:17 +0100 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> References: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: <53553AB5.70600@rektau.ukfsn.org> On 21/04/14 16:09, Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > > On 21 April 2014 at 2:30, wrote: > >> ---- Kevin Cosgrove wrote: >>> >>> On 20 April 2014 at 7:54, "F. Silvain" wrote: >>> >>>> Kevin Cosgrove, Apr 20 2014: >>>> ... >>>>> I'm trying to figure out how to interconnect the *MIDI* of the following: >>>>> >>>>> - M-Audio Delta 1010 hardware MIDI ports >>>>> - Mackie Control Universal hardware MIDI ports >>>>> - Alesis QS8 hardware synth >>>>> - a2jmidid software MIDI interface >>>>> - Ardour jack-MIDI ports >>>>> >>>>> What can you folks advise? >>>> Hey Kevin, >>>> I've got the same card and I use MIDI everytime I work with my system. >>>> Why do you use a2jmidid, when JACK has its own option? >>>> jackd ... -Xseq >>>> Valid for JACK1 and JACK2 (JACKmp). >>> >>> The Mackie above is a control surface. I want to use it with Ardour. >>> Here are some instructions for that. The 1st link references the >>> 2nd, which references the 3rd. >>> >>> http://manual.ardour.org/using-control-surfaces/devices-using-mackielogic-control-protocol/ >>> >>> http://manual.ardour.org/using-control-surfaces/devices-using-mackielogic-control-protocol/mackie-control-setup-on-linux/ >>> >>> http://manual.ardour.org/setting-up-your-system/setting-up-midi/midi-on-linux/ >>> >>> That last link says to "uncheck the Misc > Enable ALSA Sequencer support" >>> which is the same thing as avoiding "-Xseq". After going through that, >>> and going with "a2jmidid -e" then my Behringer BCF2000 control surface >>> worked just fine. >>> >>> But, the Mackie has no USB port, only MIDI ports, and I have not been >>> able to get anything Linux to talk to it. >> >> Did you try a USB<>MIDI connector? > > Not yet. I don't own one. If a USB<>MIDI device is the correct > way to get MIDI hardware communication to work, then I'll get > such a unit. But, I don't want to buy one for troubleshooting, > if it's not needed. Is it generally agreed that a USB<>MIDI unit > is needed? > > The last time I did this I used a Soundblaster card which had a > game/MIDI port and that worked fine to communicate over MIDI. > Now I have a Delta 1010 with MIDI ports. But, that's the only > MIDI connected within my computer. I haven't been able to > get that to work for me. So far, nobody suggested that this > shouldn't work, nor how to get it to work, if it's supposed to > work. > > Thanks... > > -- > Kevin > amidi -l ? From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Apr 21 17:14:23 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 07:14:23 -1000 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> References: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: <535551EF.7040703@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/21/2014 05:09 AM, Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > > On 21 April 2014 at 2:30, wrote: > >> ---- Kevin Cosgrove wrote: >>> >>> On 20 April 2014 at 7:54, "F. Silvain" wrote: >>> >>>> Kevin Cosgrove, Apr 20 2014: >>>> ... >>>>> I'm trying to figure out how to interconnect the *MIDI* of the following: >>>>> >>>>> - M-Audio Delta 1010 hardware MIDI ports >>>>> - Mackie Control Universal hardware MIDI ports >>>>> - Alesis QS8 hardware synth >>>>> - a2jmidid software MIDI interface >>>>> - Ardour jack-MIDI ports >>>>> >>>>> What can you folks advise? >>>> Hey Kevin, >>>> I've got the same card and I use MIDI everytime I work with my system. >>>> Why do you use a2jmidid, when JACK has its own option? >>>> jackd ... -Xseq >>>> Valid for JACK1 and JACK2 (JACKmp). >>> >>> The Mackie above is a control surface. I want to use it with Ardour. >>> Here are some instructions for that. The 1st link references the >>> 2nd, which references the 3rd. >>> >>> http://manual.ardour.org/using-control-surfaces/devices-using-mackielogic-control-protocol/ >>> >>> http://manual.ardour.org/using-control-surfaces/devices-using-mackielogic-control-protocol/mackie-control-setup-on-linux/ >>> >>> http://manual.ardour.org/setting-up-your-system/setting-up-midi/midi-on-linux/ >>> >>> That last link says to "uncheck the Misc > Enable ALSA Sequencer support" >>> which is the same thing as avoiding "-Xseq". After going through that, >>> and going with "a2jmidid -e" then my Behringer BCF2000 control surface >>> worked just fine. >>> >>> But, the Mackie has no USB port, only MIDI ports, and I have not been >>> able to get anything Linux to talk to it. >> >> Did you try a USB<>MIDI connector? > > Not yet. I don't own one. If a USB<>MIDI device is the correct > way to get MIDI hardware communication to work, then I'll get > such a unit. But, I don't want to buy one for troubleshooting, > if it's not needed. Is it generally agreed that a USB<>MIDI unit > is needed? I mentioned it because you said the Mackie has only MIDI ports. If your computer has a MIDI port, you don't need an adapter. But if you don't have a MIDI port on the computer, a single port USB<>MIDI adapter is pretty cheap. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Apr 21 17:09:08 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 10:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> References: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Kevin Cosgrove wrote: >>>> Kevin Cosgrove, Apr 20 2014: >>>> ... >>>>> I'm trying to figure out how to interconnect the *MIDI* of the following: >>>>> >>>>> - M-Audio Delta 1010 hardware MIDI ports >>>>> - Mackie Control Universal hardware MIDI ports >>>>> - Alesis QS8 hardware synth >>>>> - a2jmidid software MIDI interface >>>>> - Ardour jack-MIDI ports >> Did you try a USB<>MIDI connector? > > Not yet. I don't own one. If a USB<>MIDI device is the correct > way to get MIDI hardware communication to work, then I'll get > such a unit. But, I don't want to buy one for troubleshooting, > if it's not needed. Is it generally agreed that a USB<>MIDI unit > is needed? No, your delta should work and if it does then there is no SW difference between the delta and the usbmidi once you get to the ALSA midi ports. > The last time I did this I used a Soundblaster card which had a > game/MIDI port and that worked fine to communicate over MIDI. mine is an ensoniq (es1370).. same idea. Works with my kybd just fine, but I don't have control surfaces. > Now I have a Delta 1010 with MIDI ports. But, that's the only > MIDI connected within my computer. I haven't been able to > get that to work for me. So far, nobody suggested that this > shouldn't work, nor how to get it to work, if it's supposed to > work. It should work just fine. I am assuming you see the ports in the jack midi ports(under a2j)... I don't know if you use qjackctl or patchage or other gui for this or if you do it all CL, but I use qjackctl. a2jmidid should show up in the jack midi panel and when expanded should show your 1010 midi ports. Quick test to make sure data goes through is to use jack-keyboard midi_out connected to your 1010 playback within a2j... run a midi cable from the 1010 midi out to the 1010 midi in... start a softsynth (hexter or qsynth...or which ever you are most comfortable with and know you can get sound from). and connect a2j/1010capture to the softsynth. If jack-keyboard can play the softsynth, then the hardware is working and a2j is set up right. Do check that you can change patches/sustain works, etc. I figured you had already done a similar test because of what seemed to be working from your other hw. midi is midi pretty much. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Apr 21 17:16:24 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 10:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Len Ovens wrote: > Quick test to make sure data goes through is to use jack-keyboard midi_out Hmm jack-keyboard does not have very many controls, no pitch or mod wheel that I can see. vkeybd has at least those two controls and may be a better test. The mod wheel can be set to various normal kb controlers, but the main thing is that moving a mod wheel tends to send a lot of data at once. Much more than a few key presses. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From brent at keycorner.org Mon Apr 21 23:09:36 2014 From: brent at keycorner.org (Brent Busby) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 18:09:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> References: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > On 21 April 2014 at 2:30, wrote: >> Did you try a USB<>MIDI connector? > Not yet. I don't own one. If a USB<>MIDI device is the correct way > to get MIDI hardware communication to work, then I'll get such a unit. > But, I don't want to buy one for troubleshooting, if it's not needed. > Is it generally agreed that a USB<>MIDI unit is needed? Not always -- I now have a RME Multiface II, and the built in Midi port on that works fine in Alsa and Jack Midi. However, before that, I had a Delta 1010, and I was never able to get the built in Midi port to pass data uncorrupted. Others may not have had the same experience, but at least for me, I found that while the Delta 1010 worked fine for audio, the Midi function seems to be broken (driver bug?). I also have an Edirol 3in/3out USB Midi interface that works great. So in summary, my experiences: Compliant USB interfaces: OK RME Multiface II: OK Delta 1010: Midi doesn't work in Linux > The last time I did this I used a Soundblaster card which had a > game/MIDI port and that worked fine to communicate over MIDI. Now I > have a Delta 1010 with MIDI ports. But, that's the only MIDI > connected within my computer. I haven't been able to get that to work > for me. So far, nobody suggested that this shouldn't work, nor how to > get it to work, if it's supposed to work. I've tried SoundBlaster Midi too, and I can say it works in just about any OS...though obviously they don't make very good recording cards. From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Apr 22 00:10:38 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 17:10:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Brent Busby wrote: > me, I found that while the Delta 1010 worked fine for audio, the Midi > function seems to be broken (driver bug?). > > I also have an Edirol 3in/3out USB Midi interface that works great. So in > summary, my experiences: > > Compliant USB interfaces: OK > RME Multiface II: OK > Delta 1010: Midi doesn't work in Linux Wow! a linux serial driver that doesn't work? :) Does anybody else have this experience with other ice1712 based devices? Or is this more of a HW problem? -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From kevinc at cosgroves.us Tue Apr 22 03:28:09 2014 From: kevinc at cosgroves.us (Kevin Cosgrove) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 20:28:09 -0700 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <53553AB5.70600@rektau.ukfsn.org> Message-ID: <20140422032809.BE238BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> On 21 April 2014 at 16:35, rob wrote: > On 21/04/14 16:09, Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > > > > On 21 April 2014 at 2:30, wrote: > > > >> ---- Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > >>> > >>> On 20 April 2014 at 7:54, "F. Silvain" wrote: > >>> > >>>> Kevin Cosgrove, Apr 20 2014: > >>>> ... > >>>>> I'm trying to figure out how to interconnect the *MIDI* of the following: > >>>>> > >>>>> - M-Audio Delta 1010 hardware MIDI ports > >>>>> - Mackie Control Universal hardware MIDI ports > >>>>> - Alesis QS8 hardware synth > >>>>> - a2jmidid software MIDI interface > >>>>> - Ardour jack-MIDI ports > >>>>> > >>>>> What can you folks advise? > >>>> Hey Kevin, > >>>> I've got the same card and I use MIDI everytime I work with my system. > >>>> Why do you use a2jmidid, when JACK has its own option? > >>>> jackd ... -Xseq > >>>> Valid for JACK1 and JACK2 (JACKmp). > >>> > >>> The Mackie above is a control surface. I want to use it with Ardour. > >>> Here are some instructions for that. The 1st link references the > >>> 2nd, which references the 3rd. > >>> > >>> http://manual.ardour.org/using-control-surfaces/devices-using-mackielogic-control-protocol/ > >>> > >>> http://manual.ardour.org/using-control-surfaces/devices-using-mackielogic-control-protocol/mackie-control-setup-on-linux/ > >>> > >>> http://manual.ardour.org/setting-up-your-system/setting-up-midi/midi-on-linux/ > >>> > >>> That last link says to "uncheck the Misc > Enable ALSA Sequencer support" > >>> which is the same thing as avoiding "-Xseq". After going through that, > >>> and going with "a2jmidid -e" then my Behringer BCF2000 control surface > >>> worked just fine. > >>> > >>> But, the Mackie has no USB port, only MIDI ports, and I have not been > >>> able to get anything Linux to talk to it. > >> > >> Did you try a USB<>MIDI connector? > > > > Not yet. I don't own one. If a USB<>MIDI device is the correct > > way to get MIDI hardware communication to work, then I'll get > > such a unit. But, I don't want to buy one for troubleshooting, > > if it's not needed. Is it generally agreed that a USB<>MIDI unit > > is needed? > > > > The last time I did this I used a Soundblaster card which had a > > game/MIDI port and that worked fine to communicate over MIDI. > > Now I have a Delta 1010 with MIDI ports. But, that's the only > > MIDI connected within my computer. I haven't been able to > > get that to work for me. So far, nobody suggested that this > > shouldn't work, nor how to get it to work, if it's supposed to > > work. > > > > Thanks... > > > > -- > > Kevin > > > > amidi -l ? Dir Device Name IO hw:1,0 M Audio Delta 1010 MIDI IO hw:3,0,0 BCF2000 MIDI 1 IO hw:3,0,1 BCF2000 MIDI 2 This is with my Delta 1010 turned on, but nothing connected to its MIDI ports. I also have my BCF2000 on, and MIDI cables running between it and my Mackie MCU. BCF MIDI out/thru to MCU in, and BCF in to MCU out. In this configuration the MCU can control Ardour. But, Ardour can not control the MCU. This is running behind ardour 10319 ? SLsl 0:04 /bin/jackd -dalsa -r48000 -p1024 -n2 -D -Chw:1 -Phw:1 10333 pts/5 SLl 0:02 a2jmidid -e At this point I'm thinking - MIDI ports on the Delta 1010 don't work as I would expect. Brent also said this about his 1010. - The BCF2000 functions as a unidirectional MIDI host, like a partial USB<>MIDI translator. - A real USB<>MIDI translator, e.g. Midisport NxN should help. I'll report back after my next steps. Thanks.... -- Kevin From simonzwise at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 11:23:08 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 21:23:08 +1000 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <20140422032809.BE238BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> References: <20140422032809.BE238BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: <5356511C.4090408@gmail.com> On 22/04/14 13:28, Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > > At this point I'm thinking > > - MIDI ports on the Delta 1010 don't work as I would expect. > Brent also said this about his 1010. > - The BCF2000 functions as a unidirectional MIDI host, like > a partial USB<>MIDI translator. > - A real USB<>MIDI translator, e.g. Midisport NxN should help. There are several ways you can configure the BFC2000 midi ports, for different use cases. Configuring the BFCs requires close reading of the manual, it isn't 'discoverable' by trial and error! They can be set as proper USB midi ports. Simon From philcm at gnu.org Tue Apr 22 12:12:27 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Philippe Coatmeur) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 13:12:27 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Microlabel : You made music, now what? Message-ID: <53565CAB.7020403@gnu.org> Microlabel Hi everyone Microlabel is a small CMS that I made to present my music and make it available to everyone. Features * Baseless : Just drop your correctly tagged music files in the MUSIC dir o and Microlabel will build one index page o and one page per album * Easy link sharing : Copy / paste the link, and the file will play on click * Nice URLs * Displays Youtube videos * Displays musicians latest tweets * Displays any image found in the album's dir as a gallery * Full Valid HTML / JS / CSS (No flash) * Multilingual interface Please let me know if it is of any use, or if there are bugs, or features that you would like implemented. Please, let your music fly. Cheers, Phil -- Philippe Coatmeur * http://opensimo.org/adamweb/ * https://github.com/xaccrocheur * http://opensimo.org/microlabel/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From list at nilsgey.de Tue Apr 22 12:55:29 2014 From: list at nilsgey.de (Nils) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 14:55:29 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Microlabel : You made music, now what? In-Reply-To: <53565CAB.7020403@gnu.org> References: <53565CAB.7020403@gnu.org> Message-ID: <535666C1.80009@nilsgey.de> On 22.04.2014 14:12, Philippe Coatmeur wrote: > small CMS that I made to present my music > and make it available to everyone. Link 404. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carlo.ratm at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 13:10:57 2014 From: carlo.ratm at gmail.com (Carlo Ascani) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 15:10:57 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New song made in Linux, A Boring Job Message-ID: Hi guys, here is a short song I made during my launch break (it took me about 20 minutes to complete). Nothing special, a very short chippy-style tune. Grab it if you want to play with it: (bandcamp) http://lotfi.bandcamp.com/track/a-boring-job (direct download) http://carlorat.me/download/a_boring_job.wav As usually, the full vanilla Ardour 3 session is under bickbucket: https://bitbucket.org/carloratm/a-boring-job/ Feel obligated :D to remix it! All audio samples are under a Creative Commons License (see COPYING). The song is entirely based on those samples: http://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/adventure-kid-waveforms/ Cheers, -- Carlo Ascani | carlorat.me skype: carloratm From neil at neilcsmith.net Tue Apr 22 13:36:07 2014 From: neil at neilcsmith.net (Neil C Smith) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 14:36:07 +0100 Subject: [LAU] New song made in Linux, A Boring Job In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 22 April 2014 14:10, Carlo Ascani wrote: > here is a short song I made during my launch break > (it took me about 20 minutes to complete). A most excellent use of those pesky minutes between rocket departures! ;-) -- Neil C Smith Artist : Technologist : Adviser http://neilcsmith.net Praxis LIVE - open-source intermedia development - www.praxislive.org Digital Prisoners - interactive spaces and projections - www.digitalprisoners.co.uk From martin.peach at sympatico.ca Tue Apr 22 14:07:51 2014 From: martin.peach at sympatico.ca (Martin Peach) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 10:07:51 -0400 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: On 2014-04-21 20:10, Len Ovens wrote: > > On Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Brent Busby wrote: > >> me, I found that while the Delta 1010 worked fine for audio, the Midi >> function seems to be broken (driver bug?). >> >> I also have an Edirol 3in/3out USB Midi interface that works great. >> So in summary, my experiences: >> >> Compliant USB interfaces: OK >> RME Multiface II: OK >> Delta 1010: Midi doesn't work in Linux > > Wow! a linux serial driver that doesn't work? :) Does anybody else > have this experience with other ice1712 based devices? Or is this more > of a HW problem? > I have a 1010 on a debian machine and a 1010LT on an ubuntu setup. They seem to work fine on debian-squeeze and ubuntu-precise as far as audio and MIDI go. Martin From csanchezgs at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 15:23:57 2014 From: csanchezgs at gmail.com (Carlos sanchiavedraz) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 17:23:57 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Raspberry PI as a FX pedalboard and looper In-Reply-To: <5352BE20.9000608@ponderworthy.com> References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53525088.8030300@gareus.org> <1397920646412.f8782e8b56a3e@mozgaia> <5352BE20.9000608@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: 2014-04-19 20:21 GMT+02:00 Jonathan E Brickman : > > In my experiments with a Raspberry PI as a headless FX pedalboard+looper for > live jamming I don't use nohup/schedule commands on my scripts, and I've > achieved an acceptable RT system with really low latency. I'm constantly > improving it anyway, but it seems that disabling some services and tweaking > jack1 is enough. > > Hopefully I'll be releasing some scripts and apps when I can do some code > cleanup to release them properly. > > BTW. Jonathan, nice and useful blog/notes. Thanks for sharing. > > Thanks, cscan. I am rather interested to hear that you are able to so much > with your R.P.! After I have the current rig in a nice functional > configuration, I'll probably try one of those, or possibly one of the > powerful workalikes I read about in a recent web excursion, I probably need > the DSP cycles :-) What kind of audio I/O hardware are you using, and are > you using MIDI or OSC or something else for the pedal signal? > > -- > Jonathan E. Brickman > Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | > http://ponderworthy.com Audio interface: Edirol UA25EX ... and a configurable pedalboard that triggers MIDI and OSC, although right now I'm just using MIDI messages. I'm considering contributing with my two modest cents in this an other matters, releasing and freeing some knowledge/code/processes/investigations, at least as I kind of big and personal thanks to all the great people in this list, and of course in FLOSS community as well. It's not the first time recently that this subject of headless musicstation shows up in here. -- Carlos sanchiavedraz * Musix GNU+Linux http://www.musix.es From philcm at gnu.org Tue Apr 22 15:45:56 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Philippe Coatmeur) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 16:45:56 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Microlabel : You made music, now what? In-Reply-To: <535666C1.80009@nilsgey.de> References: <53565CAB.7020403@gnu.org> <535666C1.80009@nilsgey.de> Message-ID: <53568EB4.9080205@gnu.org> On 04/22/2014 01:55 PM, Nils wrote: > > On 22.04.2014 14:12, Philippe Coatmeur wrote: >> small CMS that I made to present my music >> and make it available to everyone. > Link 404. Yep, sorry, I made a mistake, the link to MY label (that uses microlabel of course) is this one . Thanks for the heads up, Nils -- Philippe Coatmeur *http://opensimo.org/adamweb/ *https://github.com/xaccrocheur *http://opensimo.org/play -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philcm at gnu.org Tue Apr 22 15:46:41 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Philippe Coatmeur) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 16:46:41 +0100 Subject: [LAU] New song made in Linux, A Boring Job In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53568EE1.3070209@gnu.org> On 04/22/2014 02:10 PM, Carlo Ascani wrote: > Hi guys, > here is a short song I made during my launch break > (it took me about 20 minutes to complete). > Loved it. Sounds great. Made me dance on my seat ; You can /feel/ the boredom :) Thanks -- Philippe Coatmeur *http://opensimo.org/adamweb/ *https://github.com/xaccrocheur *http://opensimo.org/play -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From falktx at gmail.com Tue Apr 22 16:55:19 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 16:55:19 +0000 Subject: [LAU] The first beta of Carla Plugin Host 2.0 is here! Message-ID: <53569EF7.8060003@gmail.com> Just bringing the news... http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/News/?action=view&url=the-first-carla-20-beta-is-here Carla 2.0 is a full rework of the first Carla release. It's currently under development with a planned release later this year. Today the first beta is released, and we'll show you what to expect when the final version arrives. To download binaries or source code, jump into the KXStudio downloads section. [1] If you're using the KXStudio repositories, you can simply install "carla-git" and "carla-plugins-lv2" instead. Bug reports and feature requests are welcome! Jump into the Carla's Github project page for those. [2] DISCLAIMER: This is a beta release! Although all features mentioned here are working right now, they may be incomplete, have bugs or even eat your cat! You've been warned. ;) See the top link for some highlights + screenshots. See you in LAC! :D ----------------------------------------------------------- [1] http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/Downloads [2] https://github.com/falkTX/Carla From jeb at ponderworthy.com Tue Apr 22 15:55:43 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 15:55:43 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Raspberry PI as a FX pedalboard and looper In-Reply-To: References: <9211132febe34f67a8065034a5dcb7b1@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <53525088.8030300@gareus.org> <1397920646412.f8782e8b56a3e@mozgaia> <5352BE20.9000608@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <77b6b114573142febdfc6dd735768264@Ex13DAG10-N2.dataoncloud.net> > > Thanks, cscan. I am rather interested to hear that you are able to so > > much with your R.P.! After I have the current rig in a nice > > functional configuration, I'll probably try one of those, or possibly > > one of the powerful workalikes I read about in a recent web excursion, > > I probably need the DSP cycles :-) What kind of audio I/O hardware > > are you using, and are you using MIDI or OSC or something else for the > pedal signal? > Audio interface: Edirol UA25EX > > ... and a configurable pedalboard that triggers MIDI and OSC, although right > now I'm just using MIDI messages. > > I'm considering contributing with my two modest cents in this an other > matters, releasing and freeing some > knowledge/code/processes/investigations, at least as I kind of big and > personal thanks to all the great people in this list, and of course in FLOSS > community as well. > > It's not the first time recently that this subject of headless musicstation > shows up in here. Definitely will be looking forward, Carlos! J.E.B. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Tue Apr 22 17:07:25 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 07:07:25 -1000 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: References: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: <5356A1CD.9080802@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/22/2014 04:07 AM, Martin Peach wrote: > On 2014-04-21 20:10, Len Ovens wrote: >> >> On Mon, 21 Apr 2014, Brent Busby wrote: >> >>> me, I found that while the Delta 1010 worked fine for audio, the Midi >>> function seems to be broken (driver bug?). >>> >>> I also have an Edirol 3in/3out USB Midi interface that works great. >>> So in summary, my experiences: >>> >>> Compliant USB interfaces: OK >>> RME Multiface II: OK >>> Delta 1010: Midi doesn't work in Linux >> >> Wow! a linux serial driver that doesn't work? :) Does anybody else >> have this experience with other ice1712 based devices? Or is this more >> of a HW problem? > > I have a 1010 on a debian machine and a 1010LT on an ubuntu setup. They > seem to work fine on debian-squeeze and ubuntu-precise as far as audio > and MIDI go. I had heard that 1010s worked fine, but don't remember anything about MIDI. My only encounter with a 1010LT was on a Windows system, where it worked fine. The guy who own the Windows system had far more problems with Windows and the big-money commercial software on it than he had with the card. But he wasn't much of a MIDI user. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From edogawa at aon.at Tue Apr 22 17:31:20 2014 From: edogawa at aon.at (Edgar Aichinger) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2014 19:31:20 +0200 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <5356A1CD.9080802@hawaii.rr.com> References: <20140421150954.8D82DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <5356A1CD.9080802@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <3712622.6XxTRFeIO4@edhp> Am Dienstag, 22. April 2014, 07:07:25 schrieb david: > >> Wow! a linux serial driver that doesn't work? :) Does anybody else > >> have this experience with other ice1712 based devices? Or is this more > >> of a HW problem? > > > > I have a 1010 on a debian machine and a 1010LT on an ubuntu setup. They > > seem to work fine on debian-squeeze and ubuntu-precise as far as audio > > and MIDI go. > > I had heard that 1010s worked fine, but don't remember anything about MIDI. > > My only encounter with a 1010LT was on a Windows system, where it worked > fine. The guy who own the Windows system had far more problems with > Windows and the big-money commercial software on it than he had with the > card. But he wasn't much of a MIDI user. I have a 1010LT since 10 years or so, and the ALSA drivers always worked for me, both MIDI and audio-wise. I usually have my Korg Wavestation A/D connected to the Delta's MIDI in/out, and it works for "normal" data as well as big sysex transfers, and MIDI clock messages. Just my 2c, Edgar From silvain at freeshell.de Tue Apr 22 23:18:52 2014 From: silvain at freeshell.de (F. Silvain) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 01:18:52 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] New song made in Linux, A Boring Job In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1404230116240.15471@%-9.9s> Carlo Ascani, Apr 22 2014: > Hi guys, > here is a short song I made during my launch break > (it took me about 20 minutes to complete). This is impressive for 20 minutes Carlo! Which software did you use? Not entirely my style, but I've never finished a song that fast. ... Ta-ta ---- Ffanci * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain From carlo.ratm at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 08:21:48 2014 From: carlo.ratm at gmail.com (Carlo Ascani) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 10:21:48 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New song made in Linux, A Boring Job In-Reply-To: <1404230116240.15471@%-9.9s> References: <1404230116240.15471@%-9.9s> Message-ID: 2014-04-23 1:18 GMT+02:00 F. Silvain : > Carlo Ascani, Apr 22 2014: > > >> Hi guys, >> here is a short song I made during my launch break >> (it took me about 20 minutes to complete). > > This is impressive for 20 minutes Carlo! Which software did you use? Not Ardour 3 as the sequencer. The instruments are DrMr (drums) and samplv1, both playing wav samples from adventurekid: http://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/adventure-kid-waveforms/ > entirely my style, but I've never finished a song that fast. That is a four-track "toy" song I made for fun, thanks for listening. Cheers, > ... > > Ta-ta > ---- > Ffanci > * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain -- Carlo Ascani | carlorat.me skype: carloratm From sakrecoer at gmail.com Wed Apr 23 09:08:24 2014 From: sakrecoer at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Set_Hallstr=C3=B6m?=) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 11:08:24 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New song made in Linux, A Boring Job In-Reply-To: References: <1404230116240.15471@%-9.9s> Message-ID: Its' a bit short but it's a very nice song! sweet like a lake in the summer. I get this very cute puppy in my imagination and it's really happy yo go swim for the first time. I thinks it's the randomness in the rhythmic that moves sort of like a happy puppy.... go figure :) good job! -- Set Hallstr?m AKA reSet Sakrecoer http://sakrecoer.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james at jwm-art.net Wed Apr 23 09:51:30 2014 From: james at jwm-art.net (James Morris) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 09:51:30 +0000 Subject: [LAU] New song made in Linux, A Boring Job In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140423095130.6afb948b@Scrapyard.lan> On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 15:10:57 +0200 Carlo Ascani wrote: > Hi guys, > here is a short song I made during my launch break > (it took me about 20 minutes to complete). > > Nothing special, a very short chippy-style tune. > Grab it if you want to play with it: > > (bandcamp) http://lotfi.bandcamp.com/track/a-boring-job > (direct download) http://carlorat.me/download/a_boring_job.wav > > As usually, the full vanilla Ardour 3 session is under bickbucket: > https://bitbucket.org/carloratm/a-boring-job/ > > Feel obligated :D to remix it! > > All audio samples are under a > Creative Commons License (see COPYING). > > The song is entirely based on those samples: > http://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/adventure-kid-waveforms/ > > Cheers, > Forked. Beefed it up for competition in the loudness wars ;_) Plus a few other minor edits. tmp mp3 dl: http://jwm-art.net/a_boring_job_r1_session_2014-04-23_0937.mp3 also only a quick effort cheers, james. From atte at youmail.dk Wed Apr 23 10:01:40 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 12:01:40 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New song made in Linux, A Boring Job In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53578F84.9050600@youmail.dk> On 04/22/2014 03:10 PM, Carlo Ascani wrote: > (bandcamp) http://lotfi.bandcamp.com/track/a-boring-job Very nice! -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From silvain at freeshell.de Wed Apr 23 20:29:41 2014 From: silvain at freeshell.de (F. Silvain) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 22:29:41 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] Added MicroLabel to my website Message-ID: <1404232228170.494@freeshell.de> Hey hey everyone, I just added a microlabel as an alternative access to my music. http://www.freeshell.de/~silvain/microlabel Thank you Phillipe Coatmeur for the MicroLabel CMS. If there are issues let me know. Ta-ta ---- Ffanci * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Wed Apr 23 21:52:02 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 22:52:02 +0100 Subject: [LAU] New song made in Linux, A Boring Job In-Reply-To: <20140423095130.6afb948b@Scrapyard.lan> References: <20140423095130.6afb948b@Scrapyard.lan> Message-ID: <20140423225202.00e20179@debian> On Wed, 23 Apr 2014 09:51:30 +0000 James Morris wrote: > On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 15:10:57 +0200 > Carlo Ascani wrote: > > > Hi guys, > > here is a short song I made during my launch break > > (it took me about 20 minutes to complete). > > > > Nothing special, a very short chippy-style tune. > > Grab it if you want to play with it: > > > > (bandcamp) http://lotfi.bandcamp.com/track/a-boring-job > > (direct download) http://carlorat.me/download/a_boring_job.wav > > > > As usually, the full vanilla Ardour 3 session is under bickbucket: > > https://bitbucket.org/carloratm/a-boring-job/ > > > > Feel obligated :D to remix it! > > > > All audio samples are under a > > Creative Commons License (see COPYING). > > > > The song is entirely based on those samples: > > http://www.adventurekid.se/akrt/waveforms/adventure-kid-waveforms/ > > > > Cheers, > > > > Forked. Beefed it up for competition in the loudness wars ;_) > Plus a few other minor edits. > > tmp mp3 dl: > http://jwm-art.net/a_boring_job_r1_session_2014-04-23_0937.mp3 > > also only a quick effort > cheers, > james. Odd sort of thing, not really my scene, although I think the 'forked' version is a slight improvement. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Wed Apr 23 21:56:32 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2014 22:56:32 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Two songs made in Qtractor : Takkadum & Kleb Station In-Reply-To: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> References: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> Message-ID: <20140423225632.52766b7d@debian> On Sun, 20 Apr 2014 11:35:32 +0100 Philippe Coatmeur wrote: > Hi there > > Takkadum was made > mid 2011 right before Automation was available, around 0.4.something, I > guess > > 18 tracks : 10 MIDI tracks and 8 audio ones (using flac containers) ; > > * One 3 channels bus to sidechain-compress the 303-style bass (nekobee > ) with the kick (a > free 808 Sound font played by fluidsynth) using SC3 > > * the other cheap DR55 Beat elements are made with Rudolf 556 > > * A Hexter synth is doubling > the bass in the subs > * The organ is a Calf organ > * The Lead synth is a Calf Monosynth > * The guitar is a g10 double coil Ibanez in a focusrite preamp > * The microphone is a chinese Neumann knockoff in a focusrite preamp > * The girl asking "what" ? in the background is called Fatima-Zohra > * Everybody is EQ'd with LADSPA C* 10 bands Equalizer from CAPS > * Everybody is comp'd with Calf compressor DSSI > * There is a LADSPA "Fast lookahead limiter" on the master out bus > * The final bounce, a "normalize" and a quick and dirty fade out are > made in Audacity > > Kleb Station > (summer 2011 too) uses pretty much the same setup > with more instruments > > plugged in, a little automation (it was just out, and already worked > really good) and sidechain-ducked bass ; I play on all the tracks. > > BTW the CMS linked is a personal > developpement, that automatically builds album pages by reading the tags > (and optional - cover & stuff - images). It's yours if you want it. > > I used GNU / Linux to make music since around the time Jack was > introduced. I spent coutless nights teaching myself how to use just > about every single system available, and I always came back to Qtractor. > Everything makes sense in Qtractor. And when it seems that it doesn't, a > quick message on Rui Nuno's blog and you're out of the hole. > > The development is steady, focusing only on the core of the matter, and > the result is a solid system, usable right now. > > Qtractor does not even try to be /everything/, it wants to be useful in > the middle of the huge Linux audio production ecosystem, talking nice to > everybody, implementing new techs & protocols silently, never breaking > what's worked so far, bringing it all together. For me, it's the > standard against witch I can compare everything else. > > Philippe (xaccrocheur) > Can't seem to get any of these tracks to play (using firefox24) - just sits there doing nothing :( -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From brouits at free.fr Thu Apr 24 02:34:04 2014 From: brouits at free.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Beno=EEt_Rouits?=) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 04:34:04 +0200 Subject: [LAU] a very few audio personal packages for ubuntu 'trusty' Message-ID: <5358781C.7@free.fr> Hello dear linux audio users, Having read threads about harmonySEQ, i decided to try it, then to package it for ubuntu 14.04 as it is not included in the official repository. As i also tested qtractor 0.6.0, i packaged it as well since official ubuntu repository offers an older version. I read the ubuntu packaging guide online, and finally succeed to submit these two source packages on my launchpad personal package archive. I thought these packages would be useful for some of you too if you are a ubuntu user. These 14.04-only packages should be OK to install on any ubuntu 'trusty' flavour. If you like qtractor or harmonyseq, and use the latest ubuntu, you may be interested in adding the PPA into your APT configuration. See details on 'howto' here: https://launchpad.net/~brouits/+archive/ppa Actually, its just a matter of blind typing 3 comands in a terminal: $ sudo add-apt-repository ppa:brouits/ppa $ sudo apt-get update $ sudo apt-get install harmonyseq qtractor (do not type the '$') These _unofficial_ packages have been built for both 64bit and 32bit Intel platform. But BEWARE, these packages are for ubuntu _14.04_ only. Do not install them on an older ubuntu version. If you have an older ubuntu, you might want the source package: i can give you so that you can build it on your version.. if it works. Qtractor has been compiled _without_ Windows VST support (cause i do not have the Steinberg vSt sdk, which needs a registration on the Steinberg website), and linked against Qt4 gui library (QT5 version gave weird menus on a Unity desktop). HarmonySEQ is just as is, no special enabled or disabled features. Thanks to the authors of these cool softwares. Cheers, and happy composition. - Ben From fero.kiraly at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 10:45:26 2014 From: fero.kiraly at gmail.com (Fero Kiraly) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 12:45:26 +0200 Subject: [LAU] The first beta of Carla Plugin Host 2.0 is here! Message-ID: wow. great ! thank you ! I use CPH a lot with puredata. It will be great if it will be possibile to set up OSC host adress with commandline options or so. Then it will be possibile to automate the starting and connecting process. cheers. fero -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From falktx at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 10:54:45 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 11:54:45 +0100 Subject: [LAU] The first beta of Carla Plugin Host 2.0 is here! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5358ED75.3000305@gmail.com> On 04/24/2014 11:45 AM, Fero Kiraly wrote: > wow. great ! thank you ! I use CPH a lot with puredata. > > It will be great if it will be possibile to set up OSC host adress > with commandline options or so. Then it will be possibile to automate > the starting and connecting process. I haven't though of using CLI args to control the startup of Carla, I should do that. I'm wondering if it's possible to specify a static osc port via settings... Only the first Carla instance will use that port of course, but having the main/single instance always using the same osc address will simplify things. Something for the next beta I guess. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fero.kiraly at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 11:17:18 2014 From: fero.kiraly at gmail.com (Fero Kiraly) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:17:18 +0200 Subject: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box Message-ID: Hi friends, i would like to share video from concert of Philip Glass music from 1969 (pure minimal) played on electric organs using linux box we played: 1,musin in contrary motion (1969) (zynaddsubfx) 2.music in fifths (1969) (setBfree, zynaddsubfx) 3.music in similar motion (1969) (setBfree, zynaddsubfx, pd-> MIDI bridge to analog monosynth MS20) The setup was: el.organ 2x -> MIDI -> setBfree Zynaddsubfx pd-extended carlahostplugin -> output I am using arch with Presonus1818VSL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKvfpIQNfgk enjoy! fero -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Apr 24 11:37:16 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:37:16 +0200 Subject: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box In-Reply-To: <1398338873.701.35.camel@archlinux> References: <1398338873.701.35.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <1398339436.701.37.camel@archlinux> > On Thu, 2014-04-24 at 13:17 +0200, Fero Kiraly wrote: > > (setBfree, zynaddsubfx, pd-> MIDI > > bridge to analog monosynth MS20) PS: A virtual MS20 or a real MS20 with a MIDI to CV gate interface? From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Apr 24 11:41:25 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:41:25 +0200 Subject: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1398339685.701.39.camel@archlinux> My PS came through the list, but not the original mail :(. -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Ralf Mardorf To: linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org Subject: Re: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:27:53 +0200 Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4 On Thu, 2014-04-24 at 13:17 +0200, Fero Kiraly wrote: > Hi friends, > > > i would like to share video from concert of Philip Glass music from > 1969 (pure minimal) played on electric organs using linux box > we played: > 1,musin in contrary motion (1969) (zynaddsubfx) > 2.music in fifths (1969) (setBfree, zynaddsubfx) > 3.music in similar motion (1969) (setBfree, zynaddsubfx, pd-> MIDI > bridge to analog monosynth MS20) > > > The setup was: > el.organ 2x -> MIDI -> setBfree Zynaddsubfx pd-extended > carlahostplugin -> output > I am using arch with Presonus1818VSL > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKvfpIQNfgk I will listen to it completely ASAP, but I already like what I heard :). Btw. I'm a fan of Glass' choir compositions. When will we get a "South North Symphonic Choirs" equivalent for Linux ;)? Thank you for sharing this :). Regards, Ralf From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 12:16:38 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 14:16:38 +0200 Subject: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box In-Reply-To: <1398339685.701.39.camel@archlinux> References: <1398339685.701.39.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: impressive and inspiring! On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > My PS came through the list, but not the original mail :(. > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > From: Ralf Mardorf > To: linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > Subject: Re: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box > Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:27:53 +0200 > Mailer: Evolution 3.10.4 > > On Thu, 2014-04-24 at 13:17 +0200, Fero Kiraly wrote: > > Hi friends, > > > > > > i would like to share video from concert of Philip Glass music from > > 1969 (pure minimal) played on electric organs using linux box > > we played: > > 1,musin in contrary motion (1969) (zynaddsubfx) > > 2.music in fifths (1969) (setBfree, zynaddsubfx) > > 3.music in similar motion (1969) (setBfree, zynaddsubfx, pd-> MIDI > > bridge to analog monosynth MS20) > > > > > > The setup was: > > el.organ 2x -> MIDI -> setBfree Zynaddsubfx pd-extended > > carlahostplugin -> output > > I am using arch with Presonus1818VSL > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKvfpIQNfgk > > I will listen to it completely ASAP, but I already like what I heard :). > > Btw. I'm a fan of Glass' choir compositions. When will we get a "South > North Symphonic Choirs" equivalent for Linux ;)? > > Thank you for sharing this :). > > Regards, > Ralf > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fero.kiraly at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 12:25:16 2014 From: fero.kiraly at gmail.com (Fero Kiraly) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 14:25:16 +0200 Subject: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box Message-ID: a real one. MS20 mini -- Fero Kiraly pianist, musician, teacher www.ferokiraly.com www.cluster-ensemble.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 12:47:04 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 14:47:04 +0200 Subject: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: How did you get the bass tones in the first part? On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Fero Kiraly wrote: > a real one. MS20 mini > -- > Fero Kiraly > pianist, musician, teacher > www.ferokiraly.com > www.cluster-ensemble.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fero.kiraly at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 12:55:05 2014 From: fero.kiraly at gmail.com (Fero Kiraly) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 14:55:05 +0200 Subject: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: the bass tones I did using my old HTC desire sticked on my shoe -> it sends accelerometer data using TouchOSC -> pd patch to read the position of my leg & triggers the notes via MIDI ;) because thera are only two notes (A,E) always changing it was easy to programm, and on the very end I did a gesture wuth my shoe -> and it triggers stop sound... 2014-04-24 14:47 GMT+02:00 rosea grammostola : > How did you get the bass tones in the first part? > > > On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Fero Kiraly wrote: > >> a real one. MS20 mini >> -- >> Fero Kiraly >> pianist, musician, teacher >> www.ferokiraly.com >> www.cluster-ensemble.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux-audio-user mailing list >> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org >> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user >> >> > -- Fero Kiraly pianist, musician, teacher www.ferokiraly.com www.cluster-ensemble.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rosea.grammostola at gmail.com Thu Apr 24 12:57:45 2014 From: rosea.grammostola at gmail.com (rosea grammostola) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 14:57:45 +0200 Subject: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cool, thx for sharing On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 2:55 PM, Fero Kiraly wrote: > the bass tones I did using my old HTC desire sticked on my shoe -> it > sends accelerometer data using TouchOSC -> pd patch to read the position of > my leg & triggers the notes via MIDI ;) > > because thera are only two notes (A,E) always changing it was easy to > programm, and on the very end I did a gesture wuth my shoe -> and it > triggers stop sound... > > > 2014-04-24 14:47 GMT+02:00 rosea grammostola > : > > How did you get the bass tones in the first part? >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 2:25 PM, Fero Kiraly wrote: >> >>> a real one. MS20 mini >>> -- >>> Fero Kiraly >>> pianist, musician, teacher >>> www.ferokiraly.com >>> www.cluster-ensemble.com >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Linux-audio-user mailing list >>> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org >>> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user >>> >>> >> > > > -- > Fero Kiraly > pianist, musician, teacher > www.ferokiraly.com > www.cluster-ensemble.com > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philcm at gnu.org Thu Apr 24 14:53:28 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Philippe Coatmeur) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 15:53:28 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Added MicroLabel to my website In-Reply-To: <1404232228170.494@freeshell.de> References: <1404232228170.494@freeshell.de> Message-ID: <53592568.1020405@gnu.org> On 04/23/2014 09:29 PM, F. Silvain wrote: > Hey hey everyone, > I just added a microlabel as an alternative access to my music. > http://www.freeshell.de/~silvain/microlabel > Thank you Phillipe Coatmeur for the MicroLabel CMS. If there are > issues let me know. Silvain, you are using a very old version. Thing have changed ; There is now a tag editor to check your files, and everything is way smoother on the CSS side. Please, pull the latest code on a regular basis, everything is made so that it won't override your changes. Look in the "?" window to see if a new version is available. And thank you very much for using Microlabel :) Phil > > Ta-ta > ---- > Ffanci > * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -- Philippe Coatmeur +212 (0)6 10 64 73 72 +212 (0)5 37 78 55 46 * http://opensimo.org/adamweb/ * https://github.com/xaccrocheur * http://opensimo.org/play -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mis at artengine.ca Thu Apr 24 18:07:24 2014 From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 14:07:24 -0400 Subject: [LAU] is Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 supported in Linux? In-Reply-To: <000c01cf55cb$caba9020$602fb060$@vt.edu> References: <000c01cf55cb$caba9020$602fb060$@vt.edu> Message-ID: yup. I haven't dug into it but it works (with jack, pulseaudio does not see it) and I get 8 analog I/O. Out of the box. I have not tried any other features and I guess there is no software to control any features. Micha? On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > All, > > I guess the subject says it all. Anyone had any luck using it? > > -- > Ivica Ico Bukvic, D.M.A. > Associate Professor > Composition, Music Technology > Director, DISIS Interactive Sound & Intermedia Studio > Director, L2Ork Linux Laptop Orchestra > Head, ICAT IMPACT Studio > Virginia Tech > School of Performing Arts - 0141 > Blacksburg, VA 24061 > (540) 231-6139 > (540) 231-5034 (fax) > ico at vt.edu > http://disis.music.vt.edu > http://l2ork.music.vt.edu > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Apr 24 20:02:15 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 22:02:15 +0200 Subject: [LAU] is Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 supported in Linux? In-Reply-To: References: <000c01cf55cb$caba9020$602fb060$@vt.edu> Message-ID: <1398369735.701.97.camel@archlinux> On Thu, 2014-04-24 at 14:07 -0400, Michal Seta wrote: > yup. > > I haven't dug into it but it works (with jack, pulseaudio does not see > it) and I get 8 analog I/O. Out of the box. I have not tried any other > features and I guess there is no software to control any features. You kerne version/ALSA version ... > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > I guess the subject says it all. Anyone had any luck using it? ... and you kernel version/ALSA version might be a useful hint ;). However, there still could be exotic revisions for the audio device or mobo chip set issues. My elChepo Envy cards do a better job, than my RME card does on my machine ;). From kevinc at cosgroves.us Thu Apr 24 20:30:34 2014 From: kevinc at cosgroves.us (Kevin Cosgrove) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:30:34 -0700 Subject: [LAU] MIDI hardware with Linux In-Reply-To: <5356511C.4090408@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140424203034.82314BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> On 22 April 2014 at 21:23, Simon Wise wrote: > There are several ways you can configure the BFC2000 midi > ports, for different use cases. Configuring the BFCs requires > close reading of the manual, it isn't 'discoverable' by trial > and error! They can be set as proper USB midi ports. Simon's reply was exactly right. I found a "User's Manual" with title "B-CONTROL > Fader BCF2000 B-CONTROL > Rotary BCR2000" on line as a file named bcf2000_p0246_m_en.pdf In that I discovered how to set my BCF2000 to function as a UCB<>MIDI interface. First I had to set my BCF back from LC (Logic Control) mode to bC (B-CONTROL) mode. Here are the steps: - power off the BCF, if not already off - hold down the button just under the leftmost rotary knob - turn on the power - after the software version number displays, notice the mode is "bC" - release the button The BCF2000 can now be programmed into USB MIDI mode U-3. Here are the steps: - hold down the EDIT key - press the STORE key - release both keys - rotate the leftmost knob until "U-3" displays - press the EXIT key Now the BCF2000 functions as a single USB<>MIDI interface. amidi -l reports Dir Device Name IO hw:1,0 M Audio Delta 1010 MIDI IO hw:3,0,0 BCF2000 MIDI 1 IO hw:3,0,1 BCF2000 MIDI 2 O hw:3,0,2 BCF2000 MIDI 3 Relevant programs I'm running are: 1259 ? SLl 0:01 /usr/bin/qjackctl 1266 ? SLl 0:05 /opt/Ardour_x86_64-3.5.357-dbg/bin/ardour-3.5.357 24167 ? SLsl 0:10 /bin/jackd -dalsa -r48000 -p1024 -n2 -D -Chw:1 -Phw:1 24180 ? SLl 0:02 a2jmidid -e In Qjackctl's Connections window, on the MIDI tab, I've connected ardour (mackie control out) <> a2j (BCF2000 MIDI 3) ardour (mackie control in) <> a2j (BCF2000 MIDI 2) Now my Mackie Control Universal surface controls ardour and changes in ardour's GUI are reflected on the MCU. Sliders work, the jog wheel works, the clocks stay in sync, transport controls work. Basically, it all seems fine. Thanks to all for the help!!! -- Kevin From mis at artengine.ca Thu Apr 24 23:30:20 2014 From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2014 19:30:20 -0400 Subject: [LAU] is Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 supported in Linux? In-Reply-To: <1398369735.701.97.camel@archlinux> References: <000c01cf55cb$caba9020$602fb060$@vt.edu> <1398369735.701.97.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: Actually, I spoke a little too fast. The default routing configuration sucks and the only way to reconfigure it is to run a their mixing software on WIndows or Mac :( But changing the configuration on one of the above systems and saving it to the interface works. My current kernel version: 3.11.0-17-generic #31-Ubuntu SMP alsactl version 1.0.27.1, I don't know if that reflects alsa version... I have always had very good experience with RME... since many years now. Cheers Micha? On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Thu, 2014-04-24 at 14:07 -0400, Michal Seta wrote: > > yup. > > > > I haven't dug into it but it works (with jack, pulseaudio does not see > > it) and I get 8 analog I/O. Out of the box. I have not tried any other > > features and I guess there is no software to control any features. > > You kerne version/ALSA version ... > > > > > On Fri, Apr 11, 2014 at 5:19 PM, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote: > > I guess the subject says it all. Anyone had any luck using it? > > ... and you kernel version/ALSA version might be a useful hint ;). > > However, there still could be exotic revisions for the audio device or > mobo chip set issues. > > My elChepo Envy cards do a better job, than my RME card does on my > machine ;). > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atte at youmail.dk Fri Apr 25 05:58:29 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 07:58:29 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Two songs made in Qtractor : Takkadum & Kleb Station In-Reply-To: <20140423225632.52766b7d@debian> References: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> <20140423225632.52766b7d@debian> Message-ID: <5359F985.2020200@youmail.dk> On 04/23/2014 11:56 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > Can't seem to get any of these tracks to play (using firefox24) - just sits > there doing nothing :( Works fine here. Do you have something un-standard (something you tweeked yourself) in your setup (firefox, sound, pulseaudio, soundcard)? -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From james at jwm-art.net Fri Apr 25 11:28:21 2014 From: james at jwm-art.net (James Morris) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 11:28:21 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Music album released as Linux kernel module Message-ID: <20140425112821.443d15e2@Scrapyard.lan> An album of music released as a Linux kernel module - https://github.com/usrbinnc/netcat-cpi-kernel-module (but was made in protools) From silvain at freeshell.de Fri Apr 25 12:35:25 2014 From: silvain at freeshell.de (F. Silvain) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 14:35:25 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] Music album released as Linux kernel module In-Reply-To: <20140425112821.443d15e2@Scrapyard.lan> References: <20140425112821.443d15e2@Scrapyard.lan> Message-ID: <1404251434330.29821@freeshell.de> Hey hey, I listened to the album with mixed feelings. I liked a few tracks really well. But the idea is absolutely charming! Power to the nerds! :) Ta-ta ---- Ffanci * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Fri Apr 25 18:15:24 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 08:15:24 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Zzounds; nine questions to ask before buying an audio interface Message-ID: <535AA63C.1040806@hawaii.rr.com> Not a reference to Linux in the bunch, but good questions: http://www.zzounds.com/lp/audio-interface-buying-guide/151#9questions -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Fri Apr 25 21:50:32 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 22:50:32 +0100 Subject: [LAU] LAC Message-ID: <20140425225032.16290987@debian> Anyone know what sort of weather is forecast for Karlsruhe next week? I like to travel as light as possible, but don't want to end up shivering in shirtsleeves while everyone else is warm in winter woolies! -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From gordonjcp at gjcp.net Fri Apr 25 22:14:03 2014 From: gordonjcp at gjcp.net (Gordon JC Pearce) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 23:14:03 +0100 Subject: [LAU] LAC In-Reply-To: <20140425225032.16290987@debian> References: <20140425225032.16290987@debian> Message-ID: <20140425221403.GA2982@gjcp.net> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 10:50:32PM +0100, Will Godfrey wrote: > Anyone know what sort of weather is forecast for Karlsruhe next week? > > I like to travel as light as possible, but don't want to end up shivering in > shirtsleeves while everyone else is warm in winter woolies! It's 49?N - it doesn't get cold that far south. -- Gordonjcp MM0YEQ From harryhaaren at gmail.com Fri Apr 25 22:12:57 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 00:12:57 +0200 Subject: [LAU] LAC In-Reply-To: <20140425225032.16290987@debian> References: <20140425225032.16290987@debian> Message-ID: Hi Will, There's thunder and rain here now! Big lightning flashes across the sky. Quite entrataining :) This weather link (Norweigan weather service) offers us rain for the first 3 days, and overcast / sunny on Sunday... http://www.yr.no/place/Germany/Baden-W%C3%BCrttemberg/Karlsruhe/long.html Lets see what other weather stations have to offer ;) -Harry On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 11:50 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > Anyone know what sort of weather is forecast for Karlsruhe next week? > > I like to travel as light as possible, but don't want to end up shivering > in > shirtsleeves while everyone else is warm in winter woolies! > > -- > Will J Godfrey > http://www.musically.me.uk > Say you have a poem and I have a tune. > Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rob at rektau.ukfsn.org Fri Apr 25 22:17:45 2014 From: rob at rektau.ukfsn.org (Rob) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 23:17:45 +0100 Subject: [LAU] LAC In-Reply-To: <20140425225032.16290987@debian> References: <20140425225032.16290987@debian> Message-ID: <420bcb20-8df4-459b-bb0e-381493481107@email.android.com> On 25 April 2014 22:50:32 BST, Will Godfrey wrote: >Anyone know what sort of weather is forecast for Karlsruhe next week? > >I like to travel as light as possible, but don't want to end up >shivering in >shirtsleeves while everyone else is warm in winter woolies! http://www.weather-forecast.com/locations/Karlsruhe/forecasts/latest -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Sat Apr 26 05:04:30 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kaza Kore) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 05:04:30 +0000 Subject: [LAU] chord in trackers In-Reply-To: <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> References: , <534D52A2.4020305@gmx.net>, , <1397593316.3011.106880469.3C591269@webmail.messagingengine.com>, <534E5891.90709@youmail.dk>, , <534E6A97.4030404@youmail.dk> Message-ID: > Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2014 13:33:43 +0200 > From: atte at youmail.dk > To: unaudio at gmail.com > CC: linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > Subject: Re: [LAU] chord in trackers > > On 04/16/2014 12:53 PM, Vytautas Jancauskas wrote: > > > What are the many other reasons? > > From the top of my head: > * No support for sustain pedal on renoise native instruments (and no > interest in adding it) > * Doesn't work well with lot's of long samples > * X-fade loop broken, no interest in fixing, I even posted a python > script to show how it's done without magic > * New version is a step in a direction I don't like > * "remove unused samples" feature removed > * loop editor removed > * don't get the new instrument design > It's a shame to read that! When I have done any messing with music over the last near 10 years it's always been Renoise I've reached for! Have to admit I've been too busy with other things, and now travelling, to even have downloaded and played with the new Beta. From a scan of the release not I thought at least the first two points would have been the kind of things they were addressing. Does sound like some quite nice features have come in. Especially if Redux works well, maybe you can use some of the old goodness from Renoise in a new choice of DAW. Anyway I for one would be very interested to know what an ex-Renoiser settles on within the available Linux possibilities. There are a fair few I've been meaning to spend some time with but never found the time, mood and motivation in my life together. Radium with pd sounds very interesting though, especially as getting into GEM for some live graphical work for our parties is another little promise I have made myself but am yet to realise. Regards, Dale/Kazakore. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From murks at tuxfamily.org Sat Apr 26 09:32:54 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 11:32:54 +0200 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: <534B73BA.8080104@hawaii.rr.com> References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> <534B73BA.8080104@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <20140426113254.334008cf@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Sun, 13 Apr 2014 19:35:54 -1000 david wrote: > On 04/13/2014 11:24 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > > > > On Mon, 14 Apr 2014, Max wrote: > > > >> I'm running PulseAudio on top of Jack and I'm satisfied with the > >> experience > >> http://trac.jackaudio.org/wiki/WalkThrough/User/PulseOnJack > >> One exception is that i need to restart PulseAudio (pulseaudio -k) > >> and the application using it (for ex. Chromium or Firefox) after > >> every suspend. Is there a way to solve this little annoyance? > > > > First thing is to make sure you have a current PA as there has been > > a lot of work on it in the past few years. Things that didn't work > > or not right in 2012 have been fixed and work now. [edit, this does > > not seem to be fixed lp:#1232295 is not closed] I don't personally > > know about suspend because I don't happen to need/use it. Once PA > > gets restarted though, I don't think there is much you can do about > > chromium/firefox although just reloading the page should bring it > > back because the pulse port is not opened by gstream until/unless > > the web page needs it. It should be the same with many other > > desktop apps (which is why PA-jack is so useful). Many of them shut > > the port just with a pause and certainly with a stop/play (but that > > would loose the place you were if part way through a movie). This > > page: > > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio#No_sound_after_resume_from_suspend > > > > Suggests that pulseaudio -k is not the best thing to do and that > > using pasuspender will not break running applications like the > > browser. The script on the same page will only work if you have > > systemd running the system... so not debian or derivatives (just > > yet). > > > > It sounds like jackdbus has made it through the suspend ok anyway. > > IIRC, older Firefox versions used to not let go of the audio system > (if Flash was installed) until you closed Firefox. I have a friend > who up to a few years ago had a script he ran (after closing Firefox) > to kill the remaining Flash process that it would leave behind. Current firefox keeps the flash process alive and running even though all websites that used flash have been closed. At least the process exits when firefox exits. From jeb at ponderworthy.com Sat Apr 26 17:23:07 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 17:23:07 +0000 Subject: [LAU] 96 kHz -- a bottleneck somewhere Message-ID: <535BEAF9.9060203@ponderworthy.com> I decided to try 96 kHz audio with the S.R.O. (Supermega Rumblic Organ), my slightly Aslan-like synth (it is not a tame device really), and found items which may be of interest: 1. At 96 kHz, schedtool definitely matters. Taking it out increased xruns a lot. I tried to figure out what was interfering via htop, but it was very unclear. So I'm keeping the schedtool for now. I could believe that if I reengineer for a zero-X default setup (likely to happen in the future) this problem might go away, X and the desktop certainly do have lots of demands. I *think* the only big piece missing for me in this is keymapping, I use F-keys to switch patches, quite easy in both LXDE and MATE. 2. At 48 kHz, I could run stereo, i.e., all three Yoshimis' dual outputs combined by Jack separately, so each output of my FCA202 had a separate signal, with different separations as Yoshimi is prepared to do. But at 96 kHz I started to get rare xruns doing this. Tried a number of things, didn't figure out why. So I tried using just one output of each Yoshimi and then having Jack copy them all to both outputs; xruns gone. Some of my patches -- especially strings-related -- are quite a lot improved by the shift to 96 kHz, the audio detail at the high third of my 88 is much better. Not very surprising from a mathematical point of view of course. I don't use stereo output anyway, I play in ensemble and I need to leave some of the ambient audio thought-room for others, so I'm leaving things as they are unless a solution arises for possible use in recording. 3. The Jack-internal MIDI ports are enormously more handy for portability, because since they retain the same Jack port names for any ALSA MIDI hardware, I can plug in any USB MIDI adapter or USB keyboard and expect things to work without getting into GUI at all. So based on the input from excellent LAU folks, I decided to try an alsarawmidi slave driver via jack_control, thinking that perhaps I mightn't have to worry about the jitter at 4GHz; and lo and behold, all working well so far. For any who may be interested, here is START-INITIAL (run at boot) and patch script START-SRO: ---- begin START-INITIAL, run at boot ---- #!/bin/bash echo '' echo 'Initiating environment...' echo '' nohup /home/jeb/startx11vnc.sh & echo '' echo 'Cleaning up old logs...' echo '' rm ~/.log/jack/jackdbus.log rm ~/.log/a2j/a2j.log rm ~/.log/lash/lash.log echo '' echo 'Starting jackd via dBus and configuring...' echo '' jack_control ds firewire jack_control dps capture 0 jack_control dps playback 0 jack_control dps rate 96000 jack_control dps period 64 jack_control asd alsarawmidi jack_control start jack_control eps realtime true jack_control eps realtime-priority 75 jack_control eps clock-source 1 /home/jeb/START-SRO & ---- begin START-SRO, run to start patch SRO ---- #!/bin/bash # Stop any running audio elements echo "Stop any running audio elements..." killall -9 -w yoshimi fluidsynth zita-j2a aj-snapshot guitarix calfjackhost non-mixer rakarrack mididings lashd killall -9 -w yoshimi fluidsynth zita-j2a aj-snapshot guitarix calfjackhost non-mixer rakarrack mididings lashd # Remove all connections # echo "Stopping a2j..." # a2j_control stop echo "Stopping Jackd to remove all connections..." killall -9 -w jackdbus killall -9 -w jackdbus jack_control stop echo "Starting Jackd..." jack_control start sleep 2 # Running a2j -- needful to use ALSA MIDI devices with # zita-a2j, which uses the 'dummy' driver in Jack # echo "Starting a2jmidid..." # a2j_control ehw # a2j_control start # Start all relevant audio elements echo "Start all relevant audio elements..." nohup schedtool -R -p 90 -e mididings -f /home/jeb/Combine.py \ > /home/jeb/LOGS/Combine.log & nohup schedtool -R -p 90 -e calfjackhost --client CalfSRO \ eq12:SRO ! reverb:SRO ! Compressor:SRO \ > /home/jeb/LOGS/calfjackhost-SRO.log & nohup schedtool -R -p 90 -e yoshimi -N YoshSRO1 -j -l /home/jeb/YOSHIMI/SROpart1.xmz \ > /home/jeb/LOGS/Yoshimi-SRO1.log & nohup schedtool -R -p 90 -e yoshimi -N YoshSRO2 -j -l /home/jeb/YOSHIMI/SROpart2.xmz \ > /home/jeb/LOGS/Yoshimi-SRO2.log & nohup schedtool -R -p 90 -e yoshimi -N YoshSRO3 -j -l /home/jeb/YOSHIMI/SROpart3.xmz \ > /home/jeb/LOGS/Yoshimi-SRO3.log & sleep 2 # And lastly, create jackd connections using aj-snapshot echo "And lastly, create jackd connections using aj-snapshot..." cp /home/jeb/AJSRO.xml /home/jeb/AJRunning.xml nohup schedtool -R -p 90 -e aj-snapshot -d AJRunning.xml & -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fons at linuxaudio.org Sat Apr 26 19:33:46 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 19:33:46 +0000 Subject: [LAU] 96 kHz -- a bottleneck somewhere In-Reply-To: <535BEAF9.9060203@ponderworthy.com> References: <535BEAF9.9060203@ponderworthy.com> Message-ID: <20140426193346.GA7938@linuxaudio.org> On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 05:23:07PM +0000, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > 1. At 96 kHz, schedtool definitely matters. > Taking it out increased xruns a lot. That means that the non-real-time part of your app is somehow able to modify the scheduling of the real-time part. In other words a design problem. If the interface between the two parts is OK you should be able to completely block the non-real-time part without any effect on the audio or xruns. > 2. Some of my patches -- especially strings-related -- are > quite a lot improved by the shift to 96 kHz, the audio detail > at the high third of my 88 is much better. That again indicates a design problem, this time with the synthesis algorithms. > Not very surprising from a mathematical point of view of course. You must be using some very weird mathematics then. You can of course continue to claim things like this, and that you get less latency using zita-ajbridge (which is impossible), but you'll be jumping the shark quite soon. -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Sat Apr 26 21:37:46 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2014 11:37:46 -1000 Subject: [LAU] PulseAudio on top of Jack In-Reply-To: <20140426113254.334008cf@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <534ABAD1.5050808@revolwear.com> <534B73BA.8080104@hawaii.rr.com> <20140426113254.334008cf@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <535C272A.2000705@hawaii.rr.com> On 04/25/2014 11:32 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: >> IIRC, older Firefox versions used to not let go of the audio system >> (if Flash was installed) until you closed Firefox. I have a friend >> who up to a few years ago had a script he ran (after closing Firefox) >> to kill the remaining Flash process that it would leave behind. > > Current firefox keeps the flash process alive and running even though > all websites that used flash have been closed. At least the process > exits when firefox exits. Glad they fixed that bug. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From murks at tuxfamily.org Sat Apr 26 22:45:09 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 00:45:09 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Two songs made in Qtractor : Takkadum & Kleb Station In-Reply-To: <5359F985.2020200@youmail.dk> References: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> <20140423225632.52766b7d@debian> <5359F985.2020200@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <20140427004509.26f9a515@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Fri, 25 Apr 2014 07:58:29 +0200 Atte wrote: > On 04/23/2014 11:56 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > > > Can't seem to get any of these tracks to play (using firefox24) - > > just sits there doing nothing :( > > Works fine here. Do you have something un-standard (something you > tweeked yourself) in your setup (firefox, sound, pulseaudio, > soundcard)? I get just empty pages, ff28. Regards, Philipp From philcm at gnu.org Sun Apr 27 02:53:40 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Philippe Coatmeur) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 03:53:40 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Two songs made in Qtractor : Takkadum & Kleb Station In-Reply-To: <20140427004509.26f9a515@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> <20140423225632.52766b7d@debian> <5359F985.2020200@youmail.dk> <20140427004509.26f9a515@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <535C7134.5010300@gnu.org> On 04/26/2014 11:45 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Fri, 25 Apr 2014 07:58:29 +0200 > Atte wrote: > >> On 04/23/2014 11:56 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: >> >>> Can't seem to get any of these tracks to play (using firefox24) - >>> just sits there doing nothing :( >> Works fine here. Do you have something un-standard (something you >> tweeked yourself) in your setup (firefox, sound, pulseaudio, >> soundcard)? > I get just empty pages, ff28. ? Please include the exact URL where this happens ; thank you for your report. Phil -- Philippe Coatmeur * http://opensimo.org/adamweb/ * https://github.com/xaccrocheur * http://opensimo.org/play -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From murks at tuxfamily.org Sun Apr 27 07:53:51 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 09:53:51 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Two songs made in Qtractor : Takkadum & Kleb Station In-Reply-To: <535C7134.5010300@gnu.org> References: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> <20140423225632.52766b7d@debian> <5359F985.2020200@youmail.dk> <20140427004509.26f9a515@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <535C7134.5010300@gnu.org> Message-ID: <20140427095351.30302b1f@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 03:53:40 +0100 Philippe Coatmeur wrote: > On 04/26/2014 11:45 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > > On Fri, 25 Apr 2014 07:58:29 +0200 > > Atte wrote: > > > >> On 04/23/2014 11:56 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > >> > >>> Can't seem to get any of these tracks to play (using firefox24) - > >>> just sits there doing nothing :( > >> Works fine here. Do you have something un-standard (something you > >> tweeked yourself) in your setup (firefox, sound, pulseaudio, > >> soundcard)? > > I get just empty pages, ff28. > > ? Please include > the exact URL where this happens ; thank you for your report. > > Phil > > It was http://opensimo.org/play/?a=Azer0,Counternatures&s=1 and http://opensimo.org/play/?a=Azer0,Counternatures&s=7, even the page source was shown as empty. However, today the page is shown and the files play without trouble once js is enabled. This is in contrast to soundcloud for example, which I can't get to work at all. Takaddum is nice in its own way, thank :) Regards, Philipp From muldjordlars at gmail.com Sun Apr 27 19:31:31 2014 From: muldjordlars at gmail.com (Lars Muldjord) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 21:31:31 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [LAA]DrumGizmo 0.9.5 released [LAC2014 release] Message-ID: We're very proud to announce the immediate availability of DrumGizmo version 0.9.5! This release features a completely overhauled drum kit editor and the complete implementation of floating velocity groups with new drum kits. Keep in mind that no kits using the new format exist at the time of release. Loading a current kit will use the old fixed velocity groups as usual. We will create new versions of our kits as quickly as possible. The most prominent features included in this release are: - Multichannel support implemented and enabled - Complete drum kit editor overhaul - Now uses floating velocity groups - Autodetection of hits is now realtime and completely redesigned - Play through detected samples in sequence at the push of a button - New volume fader - Plus the usual pile of bug fixes and optimizations Download it from http://www.drumgizmo.org Visit us at the official irc channel at the Freenode network. Channel name is #DrumGizmo. We would love to hear from you. // The DrumGizmo team From philcm at gnu.org Sun Apr 27 19:31:50 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Philippe Coatmeur) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 20:31:50 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Two songs made in Qtractor : Takkadum & Kleb Station In-Reply-To: <20140427095351.30302b1f@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> <20140423225632.52766b7d@debian> <5359F985.2020200@youmail.dk> <20140427004509.26f9a515@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <535C7134.5010300@gnu.org> <20140427095351.30302b1f@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <535D5B26.1090706@gnu.org> > It was http://opensimo.org/play/?a=Azer0,Counternatures&s=1 and > http://opensimo.org/play/?a=Azer0,Counternatures&s=7, even the page > source was shown as empty. Yup. You came in between two broken commits, I guess :) > However, today the page is shown and the > files play without trouble once js is enabled. It is worth noting that I released this CMS to be used by musicians, so I very much welcome any report. The ideal situation would be someone actually installing and using it . I'm just saying. I worked quite a bit to make it really usable. Please, people. Use it. > This is in contrast to > soundcloud for example, which I can't get to work at all. The SoundCloud player is flash-based, I guess. > Takaddum is nice in its own way, thank :) Thank /you/! > > Regards, > Philipp > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -- Philippe Coatmeur +212 (0)6 10 64 73 72 +212 (0)5 37 78 55 46 * http://opensimo.org/adamweb/ * https://github.com/xaccrocheur * http://opensimo.org/play -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From WillGodfrey at musically.me.uk Sun Apr 27 21:49:14 2014 From: WillGodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will J Godfrey) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 22:49:14 +0100 Subject: [LAU] LAC In-Reply-To: References: <20140425225032.16290987@debian> Message-ID: <20140427224914.3a4f4a97@debian> On Sat, 26 Apr 2014 00:12:57 +0200 Harry van Haaren wrote: > Hi Will, > > There's thunder and rain here now! Big lightning flashes across the sky. > Quite entrataining :) > This weather link (Norweigan weather service) offers us rain for the first > 3 days, and overcast / sunny on Sunday... > http://www.yr.no/place/Germany/Baden-W%C3%BCrttemberg/Karlsruhe/long.html > > Lets see what other weather stations have to offer ;) -Harry Now I feel cheated. It's *years* since I've seen a decent thunderstorm :( Hmmm. Warm and wet - just like an English summer :) Just printed off a map of the centre of Karlsruhe so I should be able to find my way around OK. I've also booked a couple of extra days after the LAC for a bit of sight-seeing. -- It wasn't me! (Well actually, it probably was) ... the hard part is not dodging what life throws at you, but trying to catch the good bits. From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Sun Apr 27 21:55:44 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 22:55:44 +0100 Subject: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140427225544.460d894f@debian> On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:17:18 +0200 Fero Kiraly wrote: > Hi friends, > > i would like to share video from concert of Philip Glass music from 1969 > (pure minimal) played on electric organs using linux box > we played: > 1,musin in contrary motion (1969) (zynaddsubfx) > 2.music in fifths (1969) (setBfree, zynaddsubfx) > 3.music in similar motion (1969) (setBfree, zynaddsubfx, pd-> MIDI bridge > to analog monosynth MS20) > > The setup was: > el.organ 2x -> MIDI -> setBfree Zynaddsubfx pd-extended carlahostplugin -> > output > I am using arch with Presonus1818VSL > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKvfpIQNfgk > > enjoy! > > > fero Very skillful and impressive, but not what I'd want to listen to frequently! -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Sun Apr 27 22:02:15 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 23:02:15 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Two songs made in Qtractor : Takkadum & Kleb Station In-Reply-To: <20140427095351.30302b1f@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> <20140423225632.52766b7d@debian> <5359F985.2020200@youmail.dk> <20140427004509.26f9a515@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <535C7134.5010300@gnu.org> <20140427095351.30302b1f@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140427230215.4557b340@debian> On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 09:53:51 +0200 Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 03:53:40 +0100 > Philippe Coatmeur wrote: > > > On 04/26/2014 11:45 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > > > On Fri, 25 Apr 2014 07:58:29 +0200 > > > Atte wrote: > > > > > >> On 04/23/2014 11:56 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > > >> > > >>> Can't seem to get any of these tracks to play (using firefox24) - > > >>> just sits there doing nothing :( > > >> Works fine here. Do you have something un-standard (something you > > >> tweeked yourself) in your setup (firefox, sound, pulseaudio, > > >> soundcard)? > > > I get just empty pages, ff28. > > > > ? Please include > > the exact URL where this happens ; thank you for your report. > > > > Phil > > > > > > It was http://opensimo.org/play/?a=Azer0,Counternatures&s=1 and > http://opensimo.org/play/?a=Azer0,Counternatures&s=7, even the page > source was shown as empty. However, today the page is shown and the > files play without trouble once js is enabled. This is in contrast to > soundcloud for example, which I can't get to work at all. > > Takaddum is nice in its own way, thank :) > > Regards, > Philipp Still can't get the in-line player to produce any sound (and there's nothing special about my setup), but can use the download links. Not keen on the first two tracks, but otherwise quite enjoyable. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Apr 28 04:24:08 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sun, 27 Apr 2014 21:24:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer Message-ID: I have finally upgraded my music computer. I started with an older P4 with 2.5G memory. It was working well and able to get good latency (sub ms by qjackctl at 48000) but didn't have the guts to do much with it :) it had a single core. New MB: asus z87-k CPU: intel i5 at 3.2G I could have gotten an i7, but same speed/cores plus hyperthreading. Hyperthreading is anti low latency. so the i5 gives the same performance with less power use. Memory: 8G, all one stick, which is slower than two 4G sticks... maybe not the best choice, but seems ok. Video: on board, dual monitors - VGA plus DVI both 1600x900 Disk: 2TB sata about 5 years old (as I recall) Audio interface: Delta 66 Midi interface: ensoniq pci audio card. I chose this MB because it had three pci slots as well as 4 pcie slots which allowed me to keep using my old audio interfaces while giving me possibilities for upgrades. ASUS was nice enough to list the irq layout of the pci(e) slots in the user guide. All three PCI slots are shared with something else :P However, one is shared with a single channel PCIe slot - good! That PCIe slot will not be used. That is where the delta 66 went. One is shared with three PCIe slots and "IGD" (graphics?)... skip that one. The last is shared with the SATA controller and that is where the ensoniq went. The internal audio has its own irq (of course) but that is turned off in bios (as useless). The USB setup uses 3 irqs (two for USB2 and one for USB3) and so may do well with USB audio... if I had anything other than a USB1.1 audio device to try ;) I also turned the speed "Boost" off in bios as it can not be controlled by the OS. So far things look very good. With almost no changes at all and 3.13.0-24-lowlatency #46-Ubuntu for kernel (fresh ubuntustudio 64bit 14.04 install. I can run the D66 at 16 frames with very few xruns and all are spurious. Just to be sure the ensoniq was not interfering I modified the rtirq order to: "rtc snd_ice1712 snd usb i8042" This did make some small difference. Next, I turned cpufreq from ondemand to userspace so I could play with different speeds. I set cpu0 to max (3.2G) and assumed the others would follow all being on the same chip. I was wrong and the other cores were actually at 800 Mhz (were ondemand had left them). All of my xruns vanished. Ondemand sucks. I obviously wasn't pushing this too hard (it would have been too hard on the old P4). I was running jack at 16 frames (2 periods) with the pulse to jack bridge running at the same time playing a video full screen too. Qjackctl said the DSP load was less than 10% so I will have to find some way of loading it up some more. Things to try (to load the system): - mostly MIDI stuff. - keyboard in - some HW synths I have around here - soft synths... lots of them at once. - IDJC with: - live mic - skype through pulse to idjc - some mp3 or ogg files playing (at least two at once) - maybe mumble at the same time too or more than one skype. I will monitor the cpu temperature with different user set CPU speeds. So far I am very happy with what I have seen. PCI is certainly not dead, though it is getting harder to find. I could not find any Xeon boards with PCI slots for example... even if I had wanted to pay the extra. qjackctl gets loaded at session start and is setup to start jack and a2jmidid when it runs. Pulse starts then too. Pulse is set up to have all audio interfaces turned off so that jacksink/source is always default. For all the bad things I have heard about pulseaudio... it just works. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From rmouneyres at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 07:29:47 2014 From: rmouneyres at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Rapha=EBl_Mouneyres?=) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:29:47 +0200 Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > So far I am very happy with what I have seen. PCI is certainly not dead, > though it is getting harder to find. I could not find any Xeon boards with > PCI slots for example... even if I had wanted to pay the extra. In my company we have many Dell computers with Xeon processors and PCI slots. for examples models : Dell precision T3500, T1700, T3600 As they are "professional" computer, high price comes with it. The latest models made by Dell still have one PCI slot. Could be found second hand I think. From murks at tuxfamily.org Mon Apr 28 07:36:38 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:36:38 +0200 Subject: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140428093638.75b63afc@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:17:18 +0200 Fero Kiraly wrote: > Hi friends, > > i would like to share video from concert of Philip Glass music from > 1969 (pure minimal) played on electric organs using linux box > we played: > 1,musin in contrary motion (1969) (zynaddsubfx) > 2.music in fifths (1969) (setBfree, zynaddsubfx) > 3.music in similar motion (1969) (setBfree, zynaddsubfx, pd-> MIDI > bridge to analog monosynth MS20) > > The setup was: > el.organ 2x -> MIDI -> setBfree Zynaddsubfx pd-extended > carlahostplugin -> output > I am using arch with Presonus1818VSL > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKvfpIQNfgk > > enjoy! > > > fero Thanks Fero, I was not familiar with this music an I guess that to many people it would be disturbing, even though it is just 'traditional' instruments. I rather enjoy weird stuff like that from time to time, so thanks a lot! Regards, Philipp From clemens at ladisch.de Mon Apr 28 07:52:33 2014 From: clemens at ladisch.de (Clemens Ladisch) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:52:33 +0200 Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <535E08C1.4030405@ladisch.de> Len Ovens wrote: > Memory: 8G, all one stick, which is slower than two 4G sticks... > maybe not the best choice, but seems ok. I doubt that the difference is measurable, let alone noticeable. In any case, this allows easier upgrading to 16 GB. :) > Disk: 2TB sata about 5 years old (as I recall) Nowadays, not using an SSD tends to be the bottleneck. (But this is probably not the case for streaming audio.) > I chose this MB because it had three pci slots The PCIe/PCI bridges built into chipsets are reliable, but motherboards that have a separate chip for this tend to use cheap crap. Your ASM1083 is infamous. Revision 1 was unusably buggy; rev. 3 mostly works (except for virtualization). Which one do you have (lspci)? > ASUS was nice enough to list the irq layout of the pci(e) slots in the > user guide. "Nice" isn't enough, it should be _correct_ (which was not the case for my last Asus manual). Anyway, PCIe devices that support MSI use a completely separate interrupt line. (USB3 ports, graphics, and built-in audio should be harmless then.) You need to check /proc/interrupts to be sure. Regards, Clemens From murks at tuxfamily.org Mon Apr 28 08:04:52 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:04:52 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Two songs made in Qtractor : Takkadum & Kleb Station In-Reply-To: <20140427230215.4557b340@debian> References: <5353A2F4.8060505@gnu.org> <20140423225632.52766b7d@debian> <5359F985.2020200@youmail.dk> <20140427004509.26f9a515@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <535C7134.5010300@gnu.org> <20140427095351.30302b1f@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140427230215.4557b340@debian> Message-ID: <20140428100452.449388b5@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 23:02:15 +0100 Will Godfrey wrote: > On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 09:53:51 +0200 > Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > > > On Sun, 27 Apr 2014 03:53:40 +0100 > > Philippe Coatmeur wrote: > > > > > On 04/26/2014 11:45 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > > > > On Fri, 25 Apr 2014 07:58:29 +0200 > > > > Atte wrote: > > > > > > > >> On 04/23/2014 11:56 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Can't seem to get any of these tracks to play (using > > > >>> firefox24) - just sits there doing nothing :( > > > >> Works fine here. Do you have something un-standard (something > > > >> you tweeked yourself) in your setup (firefox, sound, > > > >> pulseaudio, soundcard)? > > > > I get just empty pages, ff28. > > > > > > ? Please include > > > the exact URL where this happens ; thank you for your report. > > > > > > Phil > > > > > > > > > > It was http://opensimo.org/play/?a=Azer0,Counternatures&s=1 and > > http://opensimo.org/play/?a=Azer0,Counternatures&s=7, even the page > > source was shown as empty. However, today the page is shown and the > > files play without trouble once js is enabled. This is in contrast > > to soundcloud for example, which I can't get to work at all. > > > > Takaddum is nice in its own way, thank :) > > > > Regards, > > Philipp > > Still can't get the in-line player to produce any sound (and there's > nothing special about my setup), but can use the download links. Not > keen on the first two tracks, but otherwise quite enjoyable. That's really weird Will, in coparison to soundcloud for example this page is really simple, so my guess is that the problem can be found with your setup. Once JS was enabled it played just fine for me. One possibility comes to mind: FF is really dumb and always uses the default audio device. If it can't open this device for whatever reason it might simply do nothing. Regards, Philipp From jamesmstone at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 09:03:13 2014 From: jamesmstone at gmail.com (James Stone) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:03:13 +0100 Subject: [LAU] OT: Windows experience.. Message-ID: Hi everyone, Thought I would just post a little slightly OT post just as general interest. I have been doing some fortnightly recordings of my attempts at jazz improvisation on this forum: http://improvstudy.prophpbb.com/ which I and some other musicians set up as a follow-on from the Gary Burton Coursera Jazz Improvisation course - which, incidentally, is very good (particularly for free) - although somewhat tough! For the last 2 weeks, I have been away on holiday, and then our house was being decorated - with my linux box, piano, and everything else having been packed away.. So I decided that for my next recording, I would use my (work) windows laptop to record my assignment (instead of qtractor, which I have found to be excellent for this) - thinking it should be pretty much plug and play. I did manage to record the piece, but it was much more difficult than expected: 1) my soundcard (focusrite scarlett 2i4) needed extra drivers to work with Win7. Under linux it basically works out of the box. After installing these drivers, there was very little control over the settings - I coul change the "buffer" from 0-10ms, but it seems from what it was reporting, that with a buffer setting of 10, the input delay was around 32 ms, and output 24ms or thereabouts -meaning round trip of 50+ms, which is way more than I had been trying to push it to on linux. 2) Started out trying Podium DAW for a long time - lots of hassle. Wouldn't play. In the end, I found it wouldn't play at all with the ASIO drivers for my card. Did work with the built in sound on the laptop, but whats the point of that? 3) Changed to Reaper - found layout very confusing (despite having used it before). Realised have to click the fx box to add a vsti! However, Reaper was generally a good experience. The one glitch was that it only intermittently recognised my usb keyboard - not a problem I had ever had under Linux - it fortunately worked long enough for me to record the piece once, but when I reloaded it, the USB input no longer worked - despite showing up under hardware profile.. I guess I could trouble shoot it, but I am hoping the linux box will be back up and running before I have to record the next piece!! So, overall, I found the switch from Linux-> Windows unintuitive, difficult and spent more time trouble-shooting than playing.. Sounds quite similar to what people say about going in the other direction! James From moshwe at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 10:19:00 2014 From: moshwe at gmail.com (Moshe Werner) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:19:00 +0300 Subject: [LAU] OT: Windows experience.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi James, interesting analysis. I've found that for most of the audio and midi related work I want to do Linux is just perfect. Every program has a learning curve and Linux audio apps aren't different... Cheers Moshe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jamesmstone at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 10:55:47 2014 From: jamesmstone at gmail.com (James Stone) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 11:55:47 +0100 Subject: [LAU] OT: Windows experience.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I totally agree. Seems like this dodgy USB input in Reaper isn't just me: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=128770 Unclear whether it is a Windows or a Reaper bug from reading this. Makes me glad to have qjackctl!! James On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Moshe Werner wrote: > Hi James, > > interesting analysis. > I've found that for most of the audio and midi related work I want to do > Linux is just perfect. > Every program has a learning curve and Linux audio apps aren't different... > > Cheers > > Moshe From gheskett at wdtv.com Mon Apr 28 11:16:59 2014 From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 07:16:59 -0400 Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: <535E08C1.4030405@ladisch.de> References: <535E08C1.4030405@ladisch.de> Message-ID: <201404280716.59972.gheskett@wdtv.com> On Monday 28 April 2014 07:11:52 Clemens Ladisch did opine: > Len Ovens wrote: > > Memory: 8G, all one stick, which is slower than two 4G sticks... > > > > maybe not the best choice, but seems ok. > > I doubt that the difference is measurable, let alone noticeable. > In any case, this allows easier upgrading to 16 GB. :) Ye,s its measurable as it disallows the alternate chip access mode, cutting the bandwidth in and out of memory in half. > > > Disk: 2TB sata about 5 years old (as I recall) > > Nowadays, not using an SSD tends to be the bottleneck. > (But this is probably not the case for streaming audio.) > > > I chose this MB because it had three pci slots > > The PCIe/PCI bridges built into chipsets are reliable, but motherboards > that have a separate chip for this tend to use cheap crap. > > Your ASM1083 is infamous. Revision 1 was unusably buggy; rev. 3 mostly > works (except for virtualization). Which one do you have (lspci)? > > > ASUS was nice enough to list the irq layout of the pci(e) slots in the > > user guide. > > "Nice" isn't enough, it should be _correct_ (which was not the case for > my last Asus manual). > > Anyway, PCIe devices that support MSI use a completely separate > interrupt line. (USB3 ports, graphics, and built-in audio should be > harmless then.) > > You need to check /proc/interrupts to be sure. > > > Regards, > Clemens > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user Cheers, Gene -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS From jh at brainiac.com Mon Apr 28 12:04:30 2014 From: jh at brainiac.com (Joe Hartley) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 08:04:30 -0400 Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140428080430.3122c5e231e49343817238a9@brainiac.com> On Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:29:47 +0200 Rapha?l Mouneyres wrote: > > So far I am very happy with what I have seen. PCI is certainly not dead, > > though it is getting harder to find. I could not find any Xeon boards with > > PCI slots for example... even if I had wanted to pay the extra. SuperMicro still makes them - the company I work for was until recently selling storage servers based on them. I recently upgraded my HW as well, and found a Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 mobo with a PCI slot - but only one, so I finally had to give up my paired Delta 1010s and only run one. (I've migrated to an Alesis Firewire mixer as my primary interface anyway, it doesn't affect my workflow.) For the CPU, I put in an 8 core, 4GHz AMD FX(tm)-8350. There's 2 Corsair Vengeance 4GB 1866MHz RAM sticks in it - this thing compiles a new kernel in about 10 minutes! Since I'm itemizing, there's 2 120GB SSDs mirrored for my OS disk, a pair of 1TB drives mirrored as my main storage and a 128GB SSD as my primary recording storage, backed up to the 1TB drives. I like the overall setup a lot - I was amazed how slick the mobo looks. I'm not one to say hardware's sexy but this mobo looks great! Two of my main criteria for the mobo choice were a FW port and a PCI slot. This board's got them, but overall it was not a good experience getting Arch to run on it. I had to essentially choose between having the eSATA and USB 2.0 ports working or having the onboard Realtek network port mostly work. The driver for this particular interface is not well-supported and I had trouble keeping the interface up. I eventually disabled the interface and dropped an Intel card I had on hand in, and configured the mobo so that the eSATA and USB 3.0 ports work. Since then it's been behaving, but I wish I'd done a little more research on its Linux compatibility before I bought it. -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh at brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa From ivan_521521 at yahoo.com Mon Apr 28 12:59:29 2014 From: ivan_521521 at yahoo.com (Ivan K) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 05:59:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1398689969.61693.YahooMailNeo@web122603.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Isn't M-Audio going to have to eventually make versions of their sound cards for PCI-e ?? What are they waiting for? Len Ovens wrote: > > PCI is certainly not dead,? though it is getting harder to find. From carlo.ratm at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 13:24:11 2014 From: carlo.ratm at gmail.com (Carlo Ascani) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 15:24:11 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Linux based recording studios around the world Message-ID: Hi all, yesterday I was looking for a Linux-based recording studio near me (Florence, Italy), to record drums. While googling around, an idea came to my head. What about a web application to collect all Linux-based or Linux-capable studios around the world? That should collect from hobbyst to commercial studios, and "map based". Is there something like that already available ? Do you think it is an idea which is worth spending time upon? -- Carlo Ascani | carlorat.me skype: carloratm From harryhaaren at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 13:30:58 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:30:58 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Linux based recording studios around the world In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, Are you aware of the Linux-Audio-User map? I guess people could add an entry for studios etc there. (See mailing list entry: http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2012-September/087114.html) Direct link for convienience :) http://goo.gl/maps/Rk0rC Cheers, -Harry On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Carlo Ascani wrote: > Hi all, > yesterday I was looking for a Linux-based recording studio > near me (Florence, Italy), to record drums. > While googling around, an idea came to my head. > > What about a web application to collect all Linux-based or > Linux-capable studios around the world? > That should collect from hobbyst to commercial studios, > and "map based". > > Is there something like that already available ? > Do you think it is an idea which is worth spending > time upon? > > > > -- > Carlo Ascani | carlorat.me > skype: carloratm > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carlo.ratm at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 13:38:02 2014 From: carlo.ratm at gmail.com (Carlo Ascani) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 15:38:02 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Linux based recording studios around the world In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2014-04-28 15:30 GMT+02:00 Harry van Haaren : > Hey, > > Are you aware of the Linux-Audio-User map? > I guess people could add an entry for studios etc there. > (See mailing list entry: > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2012-September/087114.html > ) > > Direct link for convienience :) > > http://goo.gl/maps/Rk0rC > Not exactly what I meant but absolutely interesting. Thank you > > Cheers, -Harry > > > On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Carlo Ascani wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> yesterday I was looking for a Linux-based recording studio >> near me (Florence, Italy), to record drums. >> While googling around, an idea came to my head. >> >> What about a web application to collect all Linux-based or >> Linux-capable studios around the world? >> That should collect from hobbyst to commercial studios, >> and "map based". >> >> Is there something like that already available ? >> Do you think it is an idea which is worth spending >> time upon? >> >> >> >> -- >> Carlo Ascani | carlorat.me >> skype: carloratm >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux-audio-user mailing list >> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org >> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > -- Carlo Ascani | carlorat.me skype: carloratm From pshirkey at boosthardware.com Mon Apr 28 14:19:54 2014 From: pshirkey at boosthardware.com (Patrick Shirkey) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 00:19:54 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LAU] Linux based recording studios around the world In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53611.86.107.254.57.1398694794.squirrel@boosthardware.com> On Mon, April 28, 2014 11:24 pm, Carlo Ascani wrote: > Hi all, > yesterday I was looking for a Linux-based recording studio > near me (Florence, Italy), to record drums. > While googling around, an idea came to my head. > > What about a web application to collect all Linux-based or > Linux-capable studios around the world? > That should collect from hobbyst to commercial studios, > and "map based". > > Is there something like that already available ? > Do you think it is an idea which is worth spending > time upon? > There is a small list of Linux Audio studios on the LAU guide in the "Services" section http://linux-audio.com The list is small because not many people post details when asked to provide them. You might find there is the same amount of apathy towards a webapp too. However, you might find the complete opposite so if you build it and people use it that can only be a good thing (tm) for promoting Linux Audio Studios. I will be happy to link to it or embed it in the LAU guide if you do make something. -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd From bob at mellowood.ca Mon Apr 28 17:12:45 2014 From: bob at mellowood.ca (Bob van der Poel) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:12:45 -0700 Subject: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box In-Reply-To: <20140428093638.75b63afc@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140428093638.75b63afc@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: It's good that we are exposed to stuff like this. Puts a different perspective on composition. I've never heard of Glass before. But, it's interesting. And, it makes me feel a bit better about the concert I performed yesterday ... some light jazz. I was concerned that I had "repeat 3x" instead of the more conventional "2x" in a few pieces and I was worried that it might get tiresome :) On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 12:36 AM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Thu, 24 Apr 2014 13:17:18 +0200 > Fero Kiraly wrote: > >> Hi friends, >> >> i would like to share video from concert of Philip Glass music from >> 1969 (pure minimal) played on electric organs using linux box >> we played: >> 1,musin in contrary motion (1969) (zynaddsubfx) >> 2.music in fifths (1969) (setBfree, zynaddsubfx) >> 3.music in similar motion (1969) (setBfree, zynaddsubfx, pd-> MIDI >> bridge to analog monosynth MS20) >> >> The setup was: >> el.organ 2x -> MIDI -> setBfree Zynaddsubfx pd-extended >> carlahostplugin -> output >> I am using arch with Presonus1818VSL >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKvfpIQNfgk >> >> enjoy! >> >> >> fero > > Thanks Fero, > I was not familiar with this music an I guess that to many people it > would be disturbing, even though it is just 'traditional' instruments. > I rather enjoy weird stuff like that from time to time, so thanks a lot! > > Regards, > Philipp > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -- **** Listen to my FREE CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob at mellowood.ca WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Apr 28 17:37:05 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:37:05 +0200 Subject: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box In-Reply-To: References: <20140428093638.75b63afc@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <1398706625.11399.6.camel@archlinux> On Mon, 2014-04-28 at 10:12 -0700, Bob van der Poel wrote: > I've never heard of Glass before. Have you never watched the movie Koyaanisqatsi, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koyaanisqatsi ? The minimal music choirs are much more pleasant, than minimal music played with digital gear and btw. the movie is film history. If you shouldn't have seen it, watch it ASAP! Regards, Ralf From kevinc at cosgroves.us Mon Apr 28 17:47:12 2014 From: kevinc at cosgroves.us (Kevin Cosgrove) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 10:47:12 -0700 Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: <535E08C1.4030405@ladisch.de> Message-ID: <20140428174712.6522DBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> On 28 April 2014 at 9:52, Clemens Ladisch wrote: > Len Ovens wrote: > > Disk: 2TB sata about 5 years old (as I recall) > > Nowadays, not using an SSD tends to be the bottleneck. > (But this is probably not the case for streaming audio.) I use 7200rpm SATA drives with Ardour and routinely run 24 track, 24 bit, 48kHz without any drive speed issues. I have 16GB of RAM, which I'm sure is helping. -- Kevin From gabbe.nord at gmail.com Mon Apr 28 18:54:08 2014 From: gabbe.nord at gmail.com (Gabriel Nordeborn) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 20:54:08 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New music made with Linux: The "Lost Time" EP Message-ID: Hey everyone! It has been a while since I've finished and published new music. But, as LAC is rapidly approaching, and I'd really love to use whatever inspiration I get there making brand new stuff, I decided to pull my act together and finish a 5-track EP I've been working on for quite a while. The EP features, among others, community celebrity Glen MacArthur, and in contrast to my previous releases has vocals in various forms on more than half of the tracks. You'll find the EP in various formats at: http://www.zthmusic.com/lost-time/, or you can visit Soundcloud directly at: https://soundcloud.com/zthmusic/sets/lost-time-ep The music is, as usually, completely recorded, mixed and mastered with Ardour 3. I'm also going to write a more exhaustive post about the technicalities involved in making the EP in a few days. Keep an eye out for that on my blog, if you're interested :). I'm really happy with finally being finished with this project, and getting it out there. Please let me know what you think, I really hope you like and enjoy it! :-) Also, for those of you who are going to LAC, see you in a few days :-D Best wishes from Sweden, Gabriel/zth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Apr 28 20:48:20 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:48:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Apr 2014, Rapha?l Mouneyres wrote: >> So far I am very happy with what I have seen. PCI is certainly not dead, >> though it is getting harder to find. I could not find any Xeon boards with >> PCI slots for example... even if I had wanted to pay the extra. > > In my company we have many Dell computers with Xeon processors and PCI slots. > for examples models : Dell precision T3500, T1700, T3600 > As they are "professional" computer, high price comes with it. The > latest models made by Dell still have one PCI slot. > Could be found second hand I think. > Thank you. I wanted at least two slots, but preferably more so I could pick and choose what else is using the same irq. If money was no option... I would get such a system and add a new audio card to the mix. I would probably end up around 5K instead of < 1K. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From kevinc at cosgroves.us Mon Apr 28 20:58:44 2014 From: kevinc at cosgroves.us (Kevin Cosgrove) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:58:44 -0700 Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20140428205844.126F7BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> On 28 April 2014 at 13:48, Len Ovens wrote: > Thank you. I wanted at least two slots, but preferably more so I > could pick and choose what else is using the same irq. If money was > no option... I would get such a system and add a new audio card to > the mix. I would probably end up around 5K instead of < 1K. I ended up getting a PCIe to PCI translator card. It works well, but it's a little flimsy. I need two PCI slots, one for each of my Delta 1010s. -- Kevin From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Apr 28 20:56:35 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 13:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: <535E08C1.4030405@ladisch.de> References: <535E08C1.4030405@ladisch.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Apr 2014, Clemens Ladisch wrote: > Len Ovens wrote: >> Memory: 8G, all one stick, which is slower than two 4G sticks... >> maybe not the best choice, but seems ok. > > I doubt that the difference is measurable, let alone noticeable. > In any case, this allows easier upgrading to 16 GB. :) That was my thought too. >> Disk: 2TB sata about 5 years old (as I recall) > > Nowadays, not using an SSD tends to be the bottleneck. > (But this is probably not the case for streaming audio.) I have to be careful where I spend my money... so one thing at a time. What I have is already a very big step up from what I had. >> I chose this MB because it had three pci slots > > The PCIe/PCI bridges built into chipsets are reliable, but motherboards > that have a separate chip for this tend to use cheap crap. > > Your ASM1083 is infamous. Revision 1 was unusably buggy; rev. 3 mostly > works (except for virtualization). Which one do you have (lspci)? PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 8 Series/C220 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port #3 (rev d5) 00:1c.3 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev d5) I am not sure which is which. The first may be the express port. >> ASUS was nice enough to list the irq layout of the pci(e) slots in the >> user guide. > > "Nice" isn't enough, it should be _correct_ (which was not the case for > my last Asus manual). Most of my MB manuals so far have had nothing and so I have had to try various slots and see what I get. In any case cat /proc/interupts tells me I have two clear irqs for my two PCI cards. > Anyway, PCIe devices that support MSI use a completely separate > interrupt line. (USB3 ports, graphics, and built-in audio should be > harmless then.) I have no PCIe devices at this time. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Apr 28 21:02:06 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:02:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: <20140428080430.3122c5e231e49343817238a9@brainiac.com> References: <20140428080430.3122c5e231e49343817238a9@brainiac.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Apr 2014, Joe Hartley wrote: > I eventually disabled the interface and dropped an Intel card I had on hand > in, and configured the mobo so that the eSATA and USB 3.0 ports work. Since > then it's been behaving, but I wish I'd done a little more research on its > Linux compatibility before I bought it. One of the companies that sells computers with linux preinstalled (mentioned on this list within the month) uses one out of this line of MB. So that was a good sign to start with. I picked one with more PCI slots. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Apr 28 21:18:32 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 14:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: <1398689969.61693.YahooMailNeo@web122603.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1398689969.61693.YahooMailNeo@web122603.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Apr 2014, Ivan K wrote: > Isn't M-Audio going to have to eventually make versions of > their sound cards for PCI-e ?? What are they waiting for? There are very few cards for pcie. M-audio appears to have decided USB/FW is the safe way to go. Their line of PCI cards seems to depend on what is left in stock, there have been no delta 1010s or delta 44s for a few years now. The are still 1010LTs and D66s, but I think once they are gone they will make no more "internal" cards. The reality is that even with an internal card, a BOB or cable is needed. With USB or FW the BOB becomes the whole IF and there is less digital noise to deal with. My opinion is that the "cheap" option will be USB... with (possible) problems :P and then FW which means adding a FW card anyway, but better stability and expansion. PCIe cards will be the high end costing more than the rest of the machine for most of us. (1K plus for 8 i/o at line level with no mic pre) Linux support for new HW seems to be on the wane too. Used to be all audio was addon cards... and the internal audio when it did show up (AC97) was poor quality. So there were a lot of "ordinary" users who still added cards. The audio quality of the HDA chip set has got to the point most people can't tell anything better, and those who can have HDMI out in digital format anyway. so there is now a lot less push to support everything out there. The audio crowd is a pretty small segment of the Linux user crowd anymore. On the up side, there are some more IF makers who are putting out linux drivers. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Apr 29 00:18:52 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2014 17:18:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: <20140428205844.126F7BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> References: <20140428205844.126F7BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Apr 2014, Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > On 28 April 2014 at 13:48, Len Ovens wrote: > >> Thank you. I wanted at least two slots, but preferably more so I >> could pick and choose what else is using the same irq. If money was >> no option... I would get such a system and add a new audio card to >> the mix. I would probably end up around 5K instead of < 1K. > > I ended up getting a PCIe to PCI translator card. It works well, but > it's a little flimsy. I need two PCI slots, one for each of my Delta > 1010s. I want to get one of those just to try out. I would have to modify the case so I could access the s/pdif port which I use for extra inputs. However, it sounds like they work just fine for you anyway. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From sakrecoer at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 09:11:20 2014 From: sakrecoer at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Set_Hallstr=C3=B6m?=) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 11:11:20 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New music made with Linux: The "Lost Time" EP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Gabriel Nordeborn wrote: > > You'll find the EP in various formats at: > http://www.zthmusic.com/lost-time/ , or you can visit Soundcloud directly > at: https://soundcloud.com/zthmusic/sets/lost-time-ep > Pretty outstanding if you ask little me! The sound is tight and the flow feels right, even thou i still can't make upp my mind: am i part of the targeted audience? Or did i happen to find a backdoor to a new metaverse of musical expression? I feel the hiphop in there, which is pretty much the soundtrack of my youth, but then there are all these dubstep elements that I normaly tend to find pretty cheezy. But in this scenario, if there is any cheese to be contemplated, i'd call it swisscheez or if you prefer in swedish: ?delost :) What audio source do you feed ardour with? Software synth or hardware synth? Thank you for sharing! -- Set Hallstr?m AKA reSet Sakrecoer http://sakrecoer.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fero.kiraly at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 10:22:57 2014 From: fero.kiraly at gmail.com (Fero Kiraly) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 12:22:57 +0200 Subject: [LAU] philip glass music on linux box Message-ID: ;) nice discussion. dont forget these pieces are from 1969, so its classic music... my favourite is : Music in Twelve Parts. check this on ytb.. cheers -- Fero -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 29 13:59:47 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 13:59:47 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Audio measurement at LAC 2014 Message-ID: <20140429135947.GA8625@linuxaudio.org> LAC 2014 wil start in less than 48 hours, with what looks like a fully charged program of papers, workshops, installations and concerts. For those interested in audio measurements, there will a paper by Robin Gareus about audio metering (in a production context), and yours truly will present a workshop about audio measurements (i.e. the more technical side). The workshop will start with some essential theory (no rocket science maths), followed by hands-on practice. If you attend the workshop you can bring your laptop and audio interface [*] and have it calibrated against a precision RMS meter so you can later use it to measure other things. Make sure to have jaaa and jnoisemeter installed in that case. The best audio interfaces for this sort of thing are those having fixed or at least exactly repeatable analog gains. I'll also introduce some python extensions and code I've been using to measure audio HW and SW. For this you will need python, numpy, scipy and matplotlib. I'm using python 3.4, but things should work with 2.7 as well. See you in Karlsruhe ! [*] Internal audio interfaces are usually not worth the effort. Also, we'll have an assortment of XLR, TRS and RCA cables but no 3.5mm jacks ! -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Tue Apr 29 14:39:46 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:39:46 +0100 Subject: [LAU] LAC - Programme Message-ID: <20140429153946.0dedd1df@debian> Will printed programmes be available at check-in? If I try to print off the HTML page it's 9 A4 sheets! -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From harryhaaren at gmail.com Tue Apr 29 14:59:21 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 15:59:21 +0100 Subject: [LAU] LAC - Programme In-Reply-To: <20140429153946.0dedd1df@debian> References: <20140429153946.0dedd1df@debian> Message-ID: Yep, they're there :) On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 3:39 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > Will printed programmes be available at check-in? > > If I try to print off the HTML page it's 9 A4 sheets! > > -- > Will J Godfrey > http://www.musically.me.uk > Say you have a poem and I have a tune. > Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robin at gareus.org Tue Apr 29 15:48:34 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 17:48:34 +0200 Subject: [LAU] LAC - Programme In-Reply-To: <20140429153946.0dedd1df@debian> References: <20140429153946.0dedd1df@debian> Message-ID: <535FC9D2.1030606@gareus.org> [NB. My last email did not make it through (too large attached PDF)] On 04/29/2014 04:39 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > Will printed programmes be available at check-in? > > If I try to print off the HTML page it's 9 A4 sheets! > Firefox > LAC website > Schedule > Printable Version > Print > to PDF > A4 + color 5 pages. The first three are schedule tables plus 2 pages pages with concert details. looks like this: http://robin.linuxaudio.org/tmp/lac14_schedule.pdf same with (though depending on version/variant webkit2pdf may or may not get the pagebreaks right): webkit2pdf -s iso_a4 -b -o /tmp/ \ 'http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2014/printprogram.php' Cheers! robin From robin at gareus.org Tue Apr 29 15:57:31 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 17:57:31 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Audio measurement at LAC 2014 In-Reply-To: <20140429135947.GA8625@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140429135947.GA8625@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <535FCBEB.6000806@gareus.org> On 04/29/2014 03:59 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > If you attend the workshop you can bring your laptop > and audio interface [*] and have it calibrated against > a precision RMS meter so you can later use it to > measure other things. very nice! Will there be pliers and hotglue or similar crazy-glue available so that one can permanently fix the dials of the soundcard in question? I'm planning to bring a UA-25. ciao, robin From rncbc at rncbc.org Tue Apr 29 16:56:22 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 17:56:22 +0100 Subject: [LAU] [ANN] Qtractor 0.6.1 & Vee One Suite 0.4.2 - A pre-LAC beta release frenzy! Message-ID: <535FD9B6.2040701@rncbc.org> Howdy! As a pre-LAC release frenzy, Qtractor 0.6.1 (bitsy sweet beta) is out! the change-log for this release are mainly fixes: - New user preference option added as View/Options.../Display/Transport/Hold auto-scrolling (follow play-head) on edits (after requests by Holger Marzen and Louigi Verona, thanks). - All color chooser dialogs were missing proper titles. - Audio peak file re-generation and clean-up has been hopefully fixed and cache optimized (re. drawing audio clip waveforms). - Fixed initial session snap-per-beat setting on main toolbar. - Clip/Export...'ed files are now made persistent, no questions asked (after a ticket by Oliver Kester, thanks). - Portuguese (pt) translation added (by Esteban Viveros, thanks). The Vee One Suite of old-school also gets an interesting update. changes for the third proto-beta release are: - Badly named 'Noise' wave-shape oscillators get their band-limited treat option and re-labeled as 'Rand' (synthv1 only); also a brand new wave-shape 'Noise' is then introduced (now for real :)). - New user preference option, cf. Help/Use native dialogs. - An anti-denormal regression applied to the Phaser fx stage (affecting early proto-beta >= 0.4.0). all still available in dual form, as usual: - a pure stand-alone JACK client with JACK-session, NSM (Non Session management) and both JACK MIDI and ALSA MIDI input support; - a LV2 instrument plugin. Remember that both Qtractor and the Vee One Suite are free and open-source Linux Audio software, distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL) version 2 or later. See you all on LAC2014 at ZKM-Karlsruhe! http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2014/ See also: http://www.rncbc.org/drupal/node/778 And here goes the dirty details: * Qtractor - an audio/MIDI multi-track sequencer * Qtractor 0.6.1 (bitsy sweet beta) is out! Qtractor is an audio/MIDI multi-track sequencer application written in C++ with the Qt4 framework [1]. Target platform is Linux, where the Jack Audio Connection Kit (JACK) for audio and the Advanced Linux Sound Architecture (ALSA) for MIDI are the main infrastructures to evolve as a fairly-featured Linux desktop audio workstation GUI, specially dedicated to the personal home-studio. website: http://qtractor.sourceforge.net downloads: http://sourceforge.net/projects/qtractor/files - source tarball: http://download.sourceforge.net/qtractor/qtractor-0.6.1.tar.gz - source package: http://download.sourceforge.net/qtractor/qtractor-0.6.1-11.rncbc.suse131.src.rpm - binary packages: http://download.sourceforge.net/qtractor/qtractor-0.6.1-11.rncbc.suse131.i586.rpm http://download.sourceforge.net/qtractor/qtractor-0.6.1-11.rncbc.suse131.x86_84.rpm - quick start guide & user manual (outdated): http://download.sourceforge.net/qtractor/qtractor-0.5.x-user-manual.pdf help wanted! Qtractor Wiki ;) http://sourceforge.net/p/qtractor/wiki/ * synthv1 - an old-school polyphonic synthesizer * synthv1 0.4.2 is out! synthv1 is an old-school all-digital 4-oscillator subtractive polyphonic synthesizer with stereo fx. LV2 URI: http://synthv1.sourceforge.net/lv2 website: http://synthv1.sourceforge.net downloads: http://sourceforge.net/projects/synthv1/files - source tarball: http://download.sourceforge.net/synthv1/synthv1-0.4.2.tar.gz - source package: http://download.sourceforge.net/synthv1synthv1-0.4.2-16.rncbc.suse131.src.rpm - binary packages: http://download.sourceforge.net/synthv1synthv1-0.4.2-16.rncbc.suse131.i586.rpm http://download.sourceforge.net/synthv1synthv1-0.4.2-16.rncbc.suse131.x86_84.rpm * samplv1 - an old-school polyphonic sampler * samplv1 0.4.2 is out! samplv1 is an old-school polyphonic sampler synthesizer with stereo fx. LV2 URI: http://samplv1.sourceforge.net/lv2 website: http://samplv1.sourceforge.net downloads: http://sourceforge.net/projects/samplv1/files - source tarball: http://download.sourceforge.net/samplv1/samplv1-0.4.2.tar.gz - source package: http://download.sourceforge.net/samplv1/samplv1-0.4.2-16.rncbc.suse131.src.rpm - binary packages: http://download.sourceforge.net/samplv1/samplv1-0.4.2-16.rncbc.suse131.i586.rpm http://download.sourceforge.net/samplv1/samplv1-0.4.2-16.rncbc.suse131.x86_84.rpm * drumkv1 - an old-school drum-kit sampler * drumkv1 0.4.2 is out! drumkv1 an old-school drum-kit sampler synthesizer with stereo fx. LV2 URI: http://drumkv1.sourceforge.net/lv2 website: http://drumkv1.sourceforge.net downloads: http://sourceforge.net/projects/drumkv1/files - source tarball: http://download.sourceforge.net/drumkv1/drumkv1-0.4.2.tar.gz - source package: http://download.sourceforge.net/drumkv1/drumkv1-0.4.2-12.rncbc.suse131.src.rpm - binary packages: http://download.sourceforge.net/drumkv1/drumkv1-0.4.2-12.rncbc.suse131.i586.rpm http://download.sourceforge.net/drumkv1/drumkv1-0.4.1-12.rncbc.suse131.x86_84.rpm Enjoy && yet again, have fun. -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc at rncbc.org From WillGodfrey at musically.me.uk Tue Apr 29 17:29:07 2014 From: WillGodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will J Godfrey) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 18:29:07 +0100 Subject: [LAU] LAC - Programme In-Reply-To: <535FC861.1070205@gareus.org> References: <20140429153946.0dedd1df@debian> <535FC861.1070205@gareus.org> Message-ID: <20140429182907.045debd0@debian> On Tue, 29 Apr 2014 17:42:25 +0200 Robin Gareus wrote: > On 04/29/2014 04:39 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > > Will printed programmes be available at check-in? > > > > If I try to print off the HTML page it's 9 A4 sheets! > > > > Firefox > Print to PDF > A4 + color > attached. 5 pages > first three are relevant tables + 2 pages concert details. > > same with > > webkit2pdf -s iso_a4 -b -o /tmp/ > 'http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2014/printprogram.php' > > Cheers! > robin That's rather different! I must be looking at the wrong page (plain text no coloured tables). Ta muchly. P.S. I'll be travelling by Eurostar to Paris, then TGV. I understand Paris Du Nord is not a very 'nice' place :( -- It wasn't me! (Well actually, it probably was) ... the hard part is not dodging what life throws at you, but trying to catch the good bits. From robin at gareus.org Tue Apr 29 17:35:40 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:35:40 +0200 Subject: [LAU] LAC - Programme In-Reply-To: <20140429182907.045debd0@debian> References: <20140429153946.0dedd1df@debian> <535FC861.1070205@gareus.org> <20140429182907.045debd0@debian> Message-ID: <535FE2EC.7050704@gareus.org> Hi Will, > P.S. > I'll be travelling by Eurostar to Paris, then TGV. I understand Paris Du Nord > is not a very 'nice' place :( It could be worse, I suppose. It's mostly just crowded, too few snackbars etc. On the upside, the architecture of the building is great, it should probably be world-heritage - but as a travel hub it's worse that Heathrow :) I'll be on the train Paris Est -> KA, depart 15:25 When are you arriving in Paris? ciao, robin From cannam at all-day-breakfast.com Tue Apr 29 18:03:40 2014 From: cannam at all-day-breakfast.com (Chris Cannam) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:03:40 +0100 Subject: [LAU] LAC - Programme In-Reply-To: <535FE2EC.7050704@gareus.org> References: <20140429153946.0dedd1df@debian> <535FC861.1070205@gareus.org> <20140429182907.045debd0@debian> <535FE2EC.7050704@gareus.org> Message-ID: <1398794620.14175.111781417.17738116@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014, at 06:35 PM, Robin Gareus wrote: > > I'll be travelling by Eurostar to Paris, then TGV. I understand Paris Du Nord > > is not a very 'nice' place :( > > It could be worse, I suppose. It's mostly just crowded, too few > snackbars etc. > > On the upside, the architecture of the building is great It's interesting to compare with other stations in Europe like the London ones (note: I'm no expert). With the existing London stations you can see the progress in complexity of the roof arches -- King's Cross (1850 ish) has two large spans that are almost circular sections, Paddington (a few years later) has wider arches with a more interesting curve, and St Pancras (1868) has a single, huge and rather sophisticated lightly-pointed span. The Gare du Nord (early 1860s) has a single span of the size of St Pancras but with two straight segments rather than a curved arch. It's as if they had stepped up to the more advanced size, but the curve was still pending. (The roof structure was made in Britain.) Dramatic though and the end elevations are good too. But with all of these historical big-city stations, transferring across the city is difficult -- there's always a central zone and the stations are on the perimeter. Same in London, same historically in Berlin (dunno what the situation there is like now?) and so on. Cities that were redeveloped after WWII often got central stations (Birmingham, Brussels etc) but they're not always very attractive either. I'd much rather be going to LAC by train myself, but I couldn't arrange the time, so I'm flying. Chris From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 29 18:12:42 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:12:42 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Audio measurement at LAC 2014 In-Reply-To: <535FCBEB.6000806@gareus.org> References: <20140429135947.GA8625@linuxaudio.org> <535FCBEB.6000806@gareus.org> Message-ID: <1398795162.3537.12.camel@archlinux> On Tue, 2014-04-29 at 17:57 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > On 04/29/2014 03:59 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > If you attend the workshop you can bring your laptop > > and audio interface [*] and have it calibrated against > > a precision RMS meter so you can later use it to > > measure other things. > > very nice! Will there be pliers and hotglue or similar crazy-glue > available so that one can permanently fix the dials of the soundcard in > question? I'm planning to bring a UA-25. It's discussable if a calibration by averaged potentiometers will last very long, but assumed this should work, take care of the used glue. Hot glue is good to make SATA connections inside a case stable etc., especially because hot glue is easy to remove, but since hot glue tends to be UV-sensitive and easy to remove, it seldom last very long outside of a case. Loctite likely is the better glue, but likely the potentiometer never can be readjusted anymore, if you use Loctite for screw locking. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 29 18:17:37 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:17:37 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Audio measurement at LAC 2014 In-Reply-To: <1398795162.3537.12.camel@archlinux> References: <20140429135947.GA8625@linuxaudio.org> <535FCBEB.6000806@gareus.org> <1398795162.3537.12.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <1398795457.3537.14.camel@archlinux> On Tue, 2014-04-29 at 20:12 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Tue, 2014-04-29 at 17:57 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > > On 04/29/2014 03:59 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > > > If you attend the workshop you can bring your laptop > > > and audio interface [*] and have it calibrated against > > > a precision RMS meter so you can later use it to > > > measure other things. > > > > very nice! Will there be pliers and hotglue or similar crazy-glue ^^^^^^^ Usually you need very expensive adjustment screwdrivers, like the once from Bernstein, you unlikely can calibrate something, using tools made of metal. > > available so that one can permanently fix the dials of the soundcard in > > question? I'm planning to bring a UA-25. > > It's discussable if a calibration by averaged potentiometers will last > very long, but assumed this should work, take care of the used glue. Hot > glue is good to make SATA connections inside a case stable etc., > especially because hot glue is easy to remove, but since hot glue tends > to be UV-sensitive and easy to remove, it seldom last very long outside > of a case. Loctite likely is the better glue, but likely the > potentiometer never can be readjusted anymore, if you use Loctite for > screw locking. From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 29 18:27:16 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 18:27:16 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Audio measurement at LAC 2014 In-Reply-To: <535FCBEB.6000806@gareus.org> References: <20140429135947.GA8625@linuxaudio.org> <535FCBEB.6000806@gareus.org> Message-ID: <20140429182716.GA11036@linuxaudio.org> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 05:57:31PM +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > On 04/29/2014 03:59 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > If you attend the workshop you can bring your laptop > > and audio interface [*] and have it calibrated against > > a precision RMS meter so you can later use it to > > measure other things. > > very nice! Will there be pliers and hotglue or similar crazy-glue > available so that one can permanently fix the dials of the soundcard in > question? I'm planning to bring a UA-25. For a UA25 you'd need a soldering iron to remove the pots and replace them by fixed resistors :-) The older UA5 (which I will bring) has an advantage in having line inputs (on the back) that bypass the mic preamp. They have a gain control, but it's just a passive pot which you can safely turn to maximum. All this was removed on later models to make place for MIDI connectors... Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From robin at gareus.org Tue Apr 29 18:41:14 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:41:14 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Audio measurement at LAC 2014 In-Reply-To: <20140429182716.GA11036@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140429135947.GA8625@linuxaudio.org> <535FCBEB.6000806@gareus.org> <20140429182716.GA11036@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <535FF24A.1050505@gareus.org> On 04/29/2014 08:27 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 05:57:31PM +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: >> On 04/29/2014 03:59 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: >> >>> If you attend the workshop you can bring your laptop >>> and audio interface [*] and have it calibrated against >>> a precision RMS meter so you can later use it to >>> measure other things. >> >> very nice! Will there be pliers and hotglue or similar crazy-glue >> available so that one can permanently fix the dials of the soundcard in >> question? I'm planning to bring a UA-25. > > For a UA25 you'd need a soldering iron to remove the pots > and replace them by fixed resistors :-) Ok. So let me rephrase the question: Will there be a soldering-ion and a multimeter around? Or something similar that will allow to determine the value of the required fixed resistors. (I'm cc'ing lac at linuxaudio.org in case the ZKM can provide) A box with an assortment of resistors will be the easy part, I reckon. ciao, robin From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Tue Apr 29 18:42:56 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:42:56 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Audio measurement at LAC 2014 In-Reply-To: <20140429182716.GA11036@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140429135947.GA8625@linuxaudio.org> <535FCBEB.6000806@gareus.org> <20140429182716.GA11036@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <20140429194256.6118e390@debian> On Tue, 29 Apr 2014 18:27:16 +0000 Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 05:57:31PM +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > > On 04/29/2014 03:59 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > > > If you attend the workshop you can bring your laptop > > > and audio interface [*] and have it calibrated against > > > a precision RMS meter so you can later use it to > > > measure other things. > > > > very nice! Will there be pliers and hotglue or similar crazy-glue > > available so that one can permanently fix the dials of the soundcard in > > question? I'm planning to bring a UA-25. > > For a UA25 you'd need a soldering iron to remove the pots > and replace them by fixed resistors :-) > > The older UA5 (which I will bring) has an advantage in having > line inputs (on the back) that bypass the mic preamp. They have > a gain control, but it's just a passive pot which you can safely > turn to maximum. All this was removed on later models to make > place for MIDI connectors... > > Ciao, > I've got an M-Audio 2496 card which has no pots at all. Unfortunately it would be a bit difficult trying to stuff it into a laptop :) Hmmm. I've long since lost the user guide. I wonder how accurate these actually are. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 29 18:43:13 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 18:43:13 +0000 Subject: [LAU] LAC - Programme In-Reply-To: <1398794620.14175.111781417.17738116@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <20140429153946.0dedd1df@debian> <535FC861.1070205@gareus.org> <20140429182907.045debd0@debian> <535FE2EC.7050704@gareus.org> <1398794620.14175.111781417.17738116@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20140429184312.GB11036@linuxaudio.org> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 07:03:40PM +0100, Chris Cannam wrote: > But with all of these historical big-city stations, transferring across > the city is difficult -- there's always a central zone and the stations > are on the perimeter. Same in London, same historically in Berlin (dunno > what the situation there is like now?) and so on. Cities that were > redeveloped after WWII often got central stations (Birmingham, Brussels > etc) but they're not always very attractive either. Berlin has a rather impressive central station now (there's a 'Megastructures' episode on Youtube about it). Brussels central is really a small station as there are only 6 tracks on the north-south link. All international trains depart or arrive at Brussels South (aka 'Midi') and many don't even stop at central even if they have to pass through it. A really nice station is Antwerp central, it has a single span steel and glass roof, but there are now three levels below the original one. You can look up from the lowest one up to the roof. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From robin at gareus.org Tue Apr 29 18:45:45 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:45:45 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Audio measurement at LAC 2014 In-Reply-To: <1398795162.3537.12.camel@archlinux> References: <20140429135947.GA8625@linuxaudio.org> <535FCBEB.6000806@gareus.org> <1398795162.3537.12.camel@archlinux> Message-ID: <535FF359.2090408@gareus.org> On 04/29/2014 08:12 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Tue, 2014-04-29 at 17:57 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: >> On 04/29/2014 03:59 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: >> >>> If you attend the workshop you can bring your laptop >>> and audio interface [*] and have it calibrated against >>> a precision RMS meter so you can later use it to >>> measure other things. >> >> very nice! Will there be pliers and hotglue or similar crazy-glue >> available so that one can permanently fix the dials of the soundcard in >> question? I'm planning to bring a UA-25. > > It's discussable if a calibration by averaged potentiometers will last > very long, It only really needs to last until I return from LAC. At home I can do proper soldering and also calibrate other soundcards once I have a proper reference. > Hot glue is good to make SATA connections inside a case stable etc., > especially because hot glue is easy to remove, but since hot glue > tends to be UV-sensitive and easy to remove, it seldom last very > long outside of a case. Loctite likely is the better glue, but likely > the potentiometer never can be readjusted anymore, if you use Loctite > for screw locking. good points. Well, I'm open to suggestions. best, robin From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 29 18:57:03 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 18:57:03 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Audio measurement at LAC 2014 In-Reply-To: <535FF24A.1050505@gareus.org> References: <20140429135947.GA8625@linuxaudio.org> <535FCBEB.6000806@gareus.org> <20140429182716.GA11036@linuxaudio.org> <535FF24A.1050505@gareus.org> Message-ID: <20140429185703.GC11036@linuxaudio.org> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 08:41:14PM +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > Ok. So let me rephrase the question: Will there be a soldering-ion and a > multimeter around? Or something similar that will allow to determine the > value of the required fixed resistors. The simple solution is calibrate at full gain, even if that is too sensitive for practical use. Then depending on the circuit, you could just remove the pot (if it is used as a divider), or replace it by a fixed resistor of the same value. A multiface is an excellent card for measurements (no pots at all). Another good one is the RME RPM. It's easy to bypass the RIAA preamps (just a few alsamixer commands), and the outputs are *real* balanced (i.e. two signals with opposite polarity). Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Tue Apr 29 19:02:33 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:02:33 +0100 Subject: [LAU] LAC - Programme In-Reply-To: <20140429184312.GB11036@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140429153946.0dedd1df@debian> <535FC861.1070205@gareus.org> <20140429182907.045debd0@debian> <535FE2EC.7050704@gareus.org> <1398794620.14175.111781417.17738116@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20140429184312.GB11036@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <20140429200233.67343215@debian> On Tue, 29 Apr 2014 18:43:13 +0000 Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 07:03:40PM +0100, Chris Cannam wrote: > > > But with all of these historical big-city stations, transferring across > > the city is difficult -- there's always a central zone and the stations > > are on the perimeter. Same in London, same historically in Berlin (dunno > > what the situation there is like now?) and so on. Cities that were > > redeveloped after WWII often got central stations (Birmingham, Brussels > > etc) but they're not always very attractive either. > > Berlin has a rather impressive central station now (there's a 'Megastructures' > episode on Youtube about it). Brussels central is really a small station as > there are only 6 tracks on the north-south link. All international trains depart > or arrive at Brussels South (aka 'Midi') and many don't even stop at central > even if they have to pass through it. A really nice station is Antwerp central, > it has a single span steel and glass roof, but there are now three levels below > the original one. You can look up from the lowest one up to the roof. > > Ciao, Back in 2003 I had a holiday in Germany travelling entirely by train. It was a fascinating experience (from many points of view). What struck me was the similarity between those, and the English ones of the same period. The rail companies were proud of their works and built for style as well as function - not so much these days :( One that I found quite fascinating was Leipzig with its two identical entrances! -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 29 19:04:38 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:04:38 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Audio measurement at LAC 2014 In-Reply-To: <535FF24A.1050505@gareus.org> References: <20140429135947.GA8625@linuxaudio.org> <535FCBEB.6000806@gareus.org> <20140429182716.GA11036@linuxaudio.org> <535FF24A.1050505@gareus.org> Message-ID: <20140429190438.GD11036@linuxaudio.org> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 08:41:14PM +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > Ok. So let me rephrase the question: Will there be a soldering-ion and a > multimeter around? Or something similar that will allow to determine the > value of the required fixed resistors. (I'm cc'ing lac at linuxaudio.org in > case the ZKM can provide) > > A box with an assortment of resistors will be the easy part, I reckon. The meter that ZKM will provide is a level meter only, AFAIK it doesn't measure resistors. But it should be possible to find a digital multimeter. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Tue Apr 29 19:12:15 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:12:15 +0100 Subject: [LAU] LAC - Programme In-Reply-To: <1398794620.14175.111781417.17738116@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <20140429153946.0dedd1df@debian> <535FC861.1070205@gareus.org> <20140429182907.045debd0@debian> <535FE2EC.7050704@gareus.org> <1398794620.14175.111781417.17738116@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20140429201215.1ba06abb@debian> On Tue, 29 Apr 2014 19:03:40 +0100 Chris Cannam wrote: > I'd much rather be going to LAC by train myself, but I couldn't arrange > the time, so I'm flying. > > > Chris Commiserations! There was a time I enjoyed air travel, but now I avoid it whenever possible. Being {cough} semi-retired makes that an easy option :) -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Apr 29 19:12:41 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 21:12:41 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Audio measurement at LAC 2014 In-Reply-To: <535FF359.2090408@gareus.org> References: <20140429135947.GA8625@linuxaudio.org> <535FCBEB.6000806@gareus.org> <1398795162.3537.12.camel@archlinux> <535FF359.2090408@gareus.org> Message-ID: <1398798761.3537.21.camel@archlinux> On Tue, 2014-04-29 at 20:45 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > On 04/29/2014 08:12 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > It's discussable if a calibration by averaged potentiometers will last > > very long, > > It only really needs to last until I return from LAC. I don't know if this does work, when using a normal pot. A narrow wide/range, different materials, difference in temperature and it likely never will go back to the original position. Using metal film resistors or a spindle trim-pots are the better solution. Btw. if you plan to use a soldering iron, don't forget some tool to unsolder ;). From murks at tuxfamily.org Tue Apr 29 19:47:09 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 21:47:09 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Audio measurement at LAC 2014 In-Reply-To: <20140429182716.GA11036@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140429135947.GA8625@linuxaudio.org> <535FCBEB.6000806@gareus.org> <20140429182716.GA11036@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <20140429214709.08adbdf5@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Tue, 29 Apr 2014 18:27:16 +0000 Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 05:57:31PM +0200, Robin Gareus wrote: > > On 04/29/2014 03:59 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > > > If you attend the workshop you can bring your laptop > > > and audio interface [*] and have it calibrated against > > > a precision RMS meter so you can later use it to > > > measure other things. > > > > very nice! Will there be pliers and hotglue or similar crazy-glue > > available so that one can permanently fix the dials of the > > soundcard in question? I'm planning to bring a UA-25. > > For a UA25 you'd need a soldering iron to remove the pots > and replace them by fixed resistors :-) > > The older UA5 (which I will bring) has an advantage in having > line inputs (on the back) that bypass the mic preamp. They have > a gain control, but it's just a passive pot which you can safely > turn to maximum. All this was removed on later models to make > place for MIDI connectors... > > Ciao, I'd like to bring my UA25 as well, but sadly I won't be coming this year. Instead of key signing parties we well have interface calibration parties. :) I wish you all a ton of fun at the LAC. Regards, Philipp From fons at linuxaudio.org Tue Apr 29 20:06:26 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 20:06:26 +0000 Subject: [LAU] LAC - Programme In-Reply-To: <20140429200233.67343215@debian> References: <20140429153946.0dedd1df@debian> <535FC861.1070205@gareus.org> <20140429182907.045debd0@debian> <535FE2EC.7050704@gareus.org> <1398794620.14175.111781417.17738116@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20140429184312.GB11036@linuxaudio.org> <20140429200233.67343215@debian> Message-ID: <20140429200626.GE11036@linuxaudio.org> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 08:02:33PM +0100, Will Godfrey wrote: > Back in 2003 I had a holiday in Germany travelling entirely by train. It was a > fascinating experience (from many points of view). What struck me was the > similarity between those, and the English ones of the same period. The rail > companies were proud of their works and built for style as well as function - > not so much these days :( In the era before the channel tunnel I used to travel a lot on the Ostend - Dover ferries. I remember the old Dover train station (demolished AFAIK). Yellow bricks, cast iron stairs painted in bright red, and a smell typical of all British train stations... And of course the MI6 man scrutinising arriving foreigners - easy to spot: doesn't move and is the only one wearing a suit and tie. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From atte at youmail.dk Tue Apr 29 21:23:52 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 23:23:52 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New music made with Linux: The "Lost Time" EP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <53601868.5070403@youmail.dk> On 04/28/2014 08:54 PM, Gabriel Nordeborn wrote: > Please let me know what you think, It's awesome! Just bought it... -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From brouits at free.fr Tue Apr 29 21:43:53 2014 From: brouits at free.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Beno=EEt_Rouits?=) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 23:43:53 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [ANN] Qtractor 0.6.1 & Vee One Suite 0.4.2 - A pre-LAC beta release frenzy! In-Reply-To: <535FD9B6.2040701@rncbc.org> References: <535FD9B6.2040701@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <53601D19.70400@free.fr> Le 29/04/2014 18:56, Rui Nuno Capela a ?crit : > Howdy! > > As a pre-LAC release frenzy, > > Qtractor 0.6.1 (bitsy sweet beta) is out! > > the change-log for this release are mainly fixes: > - New user preference option added as > View/Options.../Display/Transport/Hold auto-scrolling (follow play-head) > on edits (after requests by Holger Marzen and Louigi Verona, thanks). > - All color chooser dialogs were missing proper titles. > - Audio peak file re-generation and clean-up has been hopefully fixed > and cache optimized (re. drawing audio clip waveforms). > - Fixed initial session snap-per-beat setting on main toolbar. > - Clip/Export...'ed files are now made persistent, no questions asked > (after a ticket by Oliver Kester, thanks). > - Portuguese (pt) translation added (by Esteban Viveros, thanks). Thank you ! just packaged qtractor 0.6.1 for ubuntu in my ppa. ( details on https://launchpad.net/~brouits/+archive/ppa ) > The Vee One Suite of old-school also gets an interesting update. > > changes for the third proto-beta release are: > - Badly named 'Noise' wave-shape oscillators get their band-limited > treat option and re-labeled as 'Rand' (synthv1 only); also a brand new > wave-shape 'Noise' is then introduced (now for real :)). > - New user preference option, cf. Help/Use native dialogs. > - An anti-denormal regression applied to the Phaser fx stage (affecting > early proto-beta >= 0.4.0). > > all still available in dual form, as usual: > - a pure stand-alone JACK client with JACK-session, NSM (Non Session > management) and both JACK MIDI and ALSA MIDI input support; > - a LV2 instrument plugin. > > > Remember that both Qtractor and the Vee One Suite are free and > open-source Linux Audio software, distributed under the terms of the GNU > General Public License (GPL) version 2 or later. > > See you all on LAC2014 at ZKM-Karlsruhe! > http://lac.linuxaudio.org/2014/ > > See also: > http://www.rncbc.org/drupal/node/778 > > > And here goes the dirty details: > [...] From jpsandys at gmail.com Wed Apr 30 07:06:57 2014 From: jpsandys at gmail.com (Jeff Sandys) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 00:06:57 -0700 Subject: [LAU] OT: Karlsruhe Message-ID: I had an awesome time visiting Karlsruhe last year to attend the live.code.festival, and am bummed out that I won't attend LAC this year. I wanted to share some findings from my trip. * ICE - you can travel the 100 miles from the Frankfurt airport to Karlsruhe in an hour, and the trains run hourly. * OFFI - If you have an Android phone you can get directions from where you are to where you want to go using transit with this cool app. * German Museum of Mechanical Musical Instruments - is at the Bruchsal Baroque Palace, has a great collection of interesting instruments including the calliope from the Coney Island carousel. -- Jeff -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From atte at youmail.dk Wed Apr 30 07:37:41 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 09:37:41 +0200 Subject: [LAU] OT: Windows experience.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5360A845.7080509@youmail.dk> On 04/28/2014 12:55 PM, James Stone wrote: > Seems like this dodgy USB input in Reaper isn't just me: I've had no problems with reaper in this regard. Running reaper through wine, though, which might be better than this wine emulator, called "windows" :-) The final post in the linked thread suggests it's a driver problem, I wouldn't know. -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From clemens at ladisch.de Wed Apr 30 08:23:29 2014 From: clemens at ladisch.de (Clemens Ladisch) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:23:29 +0200 Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: References: <535E08C1.4030405@ladisch.de> Message-ID: <5360B301.90409@ladisch.de> Len Ovens wrote: > PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 8 Series/C220 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port #3 (rev d5) > 00:1c.3 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev d5) > > I am not sure which is which. The first may be the express port. The ASM1083 (which the manual says you have) should be listed as "ASM1083". What is the output of "lspci -t"? > On Mon, 28 Apr 2014, Clemens Ladisch wrote: >> Anyway, PCIe devices that support MSI use a completely separate >> interrupt line. (USB3 ports, graphics, and built-in audio should be >> harmless then.) > > I have no PCIe devices at this time. All your motherboard devices are likely to be PCIe. Regards, Clemens From carlo.ratm at gmail.com Wed Apr 30 09:44:55 2014 From: carlo.ratm at gmail.com (Carlo Ascani) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 11:44:55 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New music made with Linux: The "Lost Time" EP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Gabriel Nordeborn > wrote: > > > You'll find the EP in various formats at: > http://www.zthmusic.com/lost-time/ , or you can visit Soundcloud directly > at: https://soundcloud.com/zthmusic/sets/lost-time-ep > Great EP, this is not the kind of music I listen daily but the sounds are so modern and the musical style is so fresh, overall I found it an excellent job. I enjoyed listening to it and can't wait for the blog post... Great work! Thanks for sharing -- Carlo Ascani | carlorat.me skype: carloratm From moshwe at gmail.com Wed Apr 30 10:23:19 2014 From: moshwe at gmail.com (Moshe Werner) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 13:23:19 +0300 Subject: [LAU] New music made with Linux: The "Lost Time" EP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wow Beautiful... I really dig your sound. Thank You! Is there anyway to donate or another way to say thanks? Cheers Moshe -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From federicogalland at gmail.com Wed Apr 30 20:42:35 2014 From: federicogalland at gmail.com (Federico Galland) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 17:42:35 -0300 Subject: [LAU] Change MIDI controller's channel from PC Message-ID: <20140430174235.f2454b938f879fa6c5ffc6e2@gmail.com> Hi, My question is exactly the subject's. The controller in question is a MIDIPLUS Origin 49, connected to my laptop through a usb cable. Qjackctl lists a midi input to the controller so I'm wondering if there is any way to set the midi channel from the computer. In case there is a workaround, what I'm trying to do is to have the 8 knobs and 8 sliders on this controller mapped to, for instance, all the controls in calf organ. Then I could assign one of the sliders to control the midi output's channel (or the keyboard's preset), and control other features of the synth in question. The controller does have a way to change its output channel, but one has to use the piano keys for that, which means one would have to stop playing. Any ideas? Thanks for everything, and for those attending the LAC, I hope you have a good time there, I wish I could participate too. Fede -- Federico Galland From rmouneyres at gmail.com Wed Apr 30 20:48:38 2014 From: rmouneyres at gmail.com (raf) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 22:48:38 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Change MIDI controller's channel from PC In-Reply-To: <20140430174235.f2454b938f879fa6c5ffc6e2@gmail.com> References: <20140430174235.f2454b938f879fa6c5ffc6e2@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello > Hi, > > My question is exactly the subject's. > > The controller in question is a MIDIPLUS Origin 49, connected to my laptop through a usb cable. > > Qjackctl lists a midi input to the controller so I'm wondering if there is any way to set the midi channel from the computer. > > In case there is a workaround, what I'm trying to do is to have the 8 knobs and 8 sliders on this controller mapped to, for instance, all the controls in calf organ. > > Then I could assign one of the sliders to control the midi output's channel (or the keyboard's preset), and control other features of the synth in question. > > The controller does have a way to change its output channel, but one has to use the piano keys for that, which means one would have to stop playing. if you were to move a pot to change the channel, you could as well press two keys maybe ? i don't know if this is doable with one hand ;) > > Any ideas? > The manual clearly states that the keyboard doesn't recognize any midi input message, so i'd assume you won't be able to do it. Rapha?l From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Apr 30 23:41:23 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 16:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] HW upgrade - new computer In-Reply-To: <5360B301.90409@ladisch.de> References: <535E08C1.4030405@ladisch.de> <5360B301.90409@ladisch.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Apr 2014, Clemens Ladisch wrote: > Len Ovens wrote: >> PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 8 Series/C220 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port #3 (rev d5) >> 00:1c.3 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev d5) >> >> I am not sure which is which. The first may be the express port. > > The ASM1083 (which the manual says you have) should be listed as "ASM1083". > What is the output of "lspci -t"? len at music:~$ lspci -t -[0000:00]-+-00.0 +-01.0-[01]-- +-02.0 +-14.0 +-16.0 +-1a.0 +-1c.0-[02]-- +-1c.2-[03]----00.0 +-1c.3-[04-05]----00.0-[05]--+-00.0 | \-02.0 +-1d.0 +-1f.0 +-1f.2 \-1f.3 00:1c.3 would be the PCI bridge then as my two audio cards are listed as 05:00.0 and 05:02.0. I would guess that the third PCI slot would be 01. I see that the bridge is listed as [04-05] I am guessing that means 04 is the PCIe side and 05 is the PCI side? 04 is: 04:00.0 PCI bridge: ASMedia Technology Inc. ASM1083/1085 PCIe to PCI Bridge (rev 03) >> On Mon, 28 Apr 2014, Clemens Ladisch wrote: >>> Anyway, PCIe devices that support MSI use a completely separate >>> interrupt line. (USB3 ports, graphics, and built-in audio should be >>> harmless then.) >> >> I have no PCIe devices at this time. > > All your motherboard devices are likely to be PCIe. Not what I meant :) (I was meaning only that I had nothing in the slots) So it sounds like you are saying that the PCIe devices are assigned an irq to be compatible with the PCI standard, but most PCIe devices don't use the irq having another way to get the OS attention. Looking at /proc/interrupts, I see that ahci (which from lspci seems to be the SATA controller) shows irq 42 even though the book says it is sharing an irq with PCI slot 1 which has an ens1370 at irq 19. So I would guess that this irq 42 is a "soft" irq? (and why do I have an ISA bridge?) So that would follow that irq 41 to 45 would be onboard soft irqs... They are called PCI-MSI-edge. I would guess that if I installed a PCIe card that was PCI HW with a PCIe->PCI bridge on the card to update it, that it would still use the old irq and could clash with one of my other PCI audio cards. I can't see me getting anything other than an ide, audio or firewire card. (I have a number of ide drives around, but may instead put them in the server and mount over network) This is starting to make sense. I have seen a number of people have xrun trouble as soon as they got new a MB that were faster than trouble free slower/older HW, but my experience has been totally the opposite. The only thing that has given any xruns so far as I can see is cpu speed changes when using ondemand (I already don't have hyperthreading to worry about). I did choose my MB/CPU based on what I felt would be good for audio, not for a fast desktop (though I have gained there too). For example, I chose the i5 cpu over the i7 because I didn't want hyprthreading, not because it was cheaper. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Apr 30 23:51:45 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 16:51:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Change MIDI controller's channel from PC In-Reply-To: <20140430174235.f2454b938f879fa6c5ffc6e2@gmail.com> References: <20140430174235.f2454b938f879fa6c5ffc6e2@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Apr 2014, Federico Galland wrote: > Hi, > My question is exactly the subject's. > The controller in question is a MIDIPLUS Origin 49, connected to my laptop through a usb cable. > Qjackctl lists a midi input to the controller so I'm wondering if there is any way to set the midi channel from the computer. > In case there is a workaround, what I'm trying to do is to have the 8 knobs and 8 sliders on this controller mapped to, for instance, all the controls in calf organ. > Then I could assign one of the sliders to control the midi output's channel (or the keyboard's preset), and control other features of the synth in question. > The controller does have a way to change its output channel, but one has to use the piano keys for that, which means one would have to stop playing. I would guess a midi router could take the controller messages from whatever channel and redirect them to another. I happen to have qmidiroute, but I would imagine PD would allow even more control. There are others as well that may be better. You should even be able to route one control to one channel and another to a different one. This should add little to your CPU usage as it is just looking for a byte stream and changing one of them for the new channel. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net