From falktx at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 00:01:22 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 01:01:22 +0100 Subject: [LAU] SFZ on Carla -- how is it done? In-Reply-To: <070530c6e093457eac328c20db64482a@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> References: <070530c6e093457eac328c20db64482a@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: <5403B752.5090203@gmail.com> On 09/01/2014 12:11 AM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > Anyone know what Carla does when running SFZ's? Does it encapsulate > LinuxSynth or something else? At 96 KHz I get a bit of background > static all the time with an SFZ, but an SF2 is clear and beautiful. > Could it be a problem with the SFZ, or a problem adapting the SFZ to > the high sampling rate? Carla uses LinuxSampler to handle GIG and SFZ files, FluidSynth for SF2. Both of these are used internally as if they were plugins loaded in Carla. See if you get the same issue with the linuxsampler standalone and that sfz file. If the issue is still there it means linuxsampler has some resampling issue; If not then something could be wrong with Carla, I can take a look if you upload the sfz. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhernberg at alchemy.lu Mon Sep 1 00:38:31 2014 From: jhernberg at alchemy.lu (Joakim Hernberg) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 02:38:31 +0200 Subject: [LAU] i5 Hyper-Threading, BIOS settings and Arch n00b pointers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140901023831.0cf022bb@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 23:40:01 +0000 Kaza Kore wrote: > So can anybody point to any conclusive evidence that i-series > processors benefit from having HT disabled on a Linux based DAW? > Preferably benchmarks on a system installed with HT Enabled and > Disabled using a recent kernel and system. I changed email address on this list about a week ago, and posted the following msg, seems it's didn't get through so I'll send an improved version :) AFAIK there are 2 points to be considered. 1. SMT (at least as implemented on iX cpus) break the entire concept of realtime. You do get an estimated increase in CPU throughput of about 25%, at the possible cost of stealing CPU time (thus latency) from your realtime threads. In effect a lower priority thread thread can run on the sibling CPU (same core) stealing CPU time from your realtime thread. 2. I suspect that the CPU cache is too small. and that SMT can also cause cache depletion, which would explain some xruns I have seen while torture testing the system doing real lowlatency audio and running hackbench at the same time. Reloading the cache cam take significant time. Speedstep was already covered by someone else. CPU management is a thorny question. That setting is probably related to System Management Interrupts (SMIs), which can be very bad indeed. Normally used for fan control and other functions by the BIOS. The really bad thing is that they block execution and there is nothing the kernel can do about it. if it's only for a few usecs, it's probably not a problem, but if it's milliseconds, it is.. There is a program called hwlatdetect in the rt-tests package that can be used to determine how big the problem is. It consists of a kernel module and a python script to start it and to report the results back to the user. What is it does is basically to stop all kernel execution and then to loop reading TSC timestamps. If it finds breaks in the data stream they will have been caused by SMIs. -- Joakim From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Sep 1 01:24:44 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 18:24:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] i5 Hyper-Threading, BIOS settings and Arch n00b pointers In-Reply-To: <20140901023831.0cf022bb@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> References: <20140901023831.0cf022bb@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, Joakim Hernberg wrote: > I changed email address on this list about a week ago, and posted the > following msg, seems it's didn't get through so I'll send an improved > version :) Do you mean this message? http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2014-August/098760.html I think it got there. I thought I saw it. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Sep 1 05:20:49 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 22:20:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> References: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Aug 2014, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > ?Just some quick thoughts, perhaps not as complete as they could > be. -- Len Ovens > > Doing pretty good I'd say, Len, I have been periodically studying this for > quite a while.? And now that Firewire is going pass? I have to do it again > :-)? > > There is one hardware approach which I have not seen at all yet: this is > combination of (say) eight simple stereo USB interfaces, into one box.? > Shouldn't it be fairly doable, to take eight satisfactory-quality USB > interfaces, wire their timing chips together, write a custom driver, and > go?? Or don't bother with the timing chips and the driver and use zita tools > or multiple Jackd processes, and build this with a Raspberry Pi (or one of > the more powerful act-alikes) as a jackd-over-tcp/ip audio appliance? Sounds expensive. The RP is just good enough to deal with one USB device it seems. So take one of the 6inch atom based boards... the price is still high. Remember, there is an 18 i/o USB2 device already available that works quite well for ~$500 all synced already. True, 10 of those ports are digital so would require another $180(adat - ADA8000) plus $30 for the spdif box (line in only so more for the last two mic pre) Any USB IF with mic pres I have seen are ~$100 and would require dedicated USB ports... this means you might be able to plug two into the MB ports and the rest would require adding more USB ports to the MB (PCIe). > There is the fact, though, that USB2 and before, are monodirectional -- half > duplex.? They transmit data only one direction at a time.? Yes, they flip > back and forth very very fast, but no matter what, that's not good for us.? That would explain the 6+ms latency (that might be round trip) which is really not too bad. I think I would be tempted to use the MB audio as one input pair and three or four output pairs, but with 18 i/o, why bother. > But USB3, happily, now gives us a full duplex capability.? Perhaps this will > mean that once small-studio-priced USB3 multitrack interfaces come out, they > may be simpler, and therefore potentially less expensive? Probably not much cheaper. The mic pre is the expensive part. The thing is, If I had an audio interface based on an old 10Meg ethernet (not many channels), it would still work on a gigabyte ethernet system... Even through a switch. So far USB3 still supports USB1, but the physical plug is changing, by the time we hit USB5, USB1 and 2 may no longer work. Sending cat5 (or whatever) up 20 floors and prewiring a building is something no one wants to have to change. There is a lot of servers around that use ethernet and good reason to keep the plug the same. But a new computer most often comes with new mouse, keyboard and printer (new printers are network). Most USB devices are low cost... Audio devices are an exception to this but the market share for USB audio is really pretty tiny. USB3 seems to be for hard drives and other fast data storage. I would tend to look at what the profesional people are doing... ethernet and PCIe. (broadcast, FOH and major studios). I should perhaps add audio over video.. or encoded as part of the video. The audio interface ends up being a signifcant part of the DAW cost which once purchaced we would rather keep through a computer upgrade. Even better if we can add more channels to it by adding a second IF or inexpensive expansion box. For an open audio interface with expandability built in, I think I would start with the processor board with two ethernet ports. Then I would be looking for a standard bus that most codecs/spdif chips support to base the modules on. The first one would feature spdif i/o, probably just one (two channels). because it is a small computer that would run linux, a netjack master would be included. Why two ethernet ports? Expandability and network passthrough. The idea is to write ethernet drivers that will split non-audio packets small enough that they do not interfere with the audio and recombine them on the other end. It would also allow putting sync on the line because we could delay other traffic around the sync on both ends. This also means that the user does not have to buy another nic or use wlan if they can't/don't want to. On the other hand, if they did have another nic, the second nic on our IF could be used for expansion to a second IF if our expansion was already used up on the first. While I would start with a netjack protocol because it would be linux/osx/win compatible right off. I might be inclined to come up with something lighter in the long run that would show up in ALSA and the native OSx/win audio as well. I think this is an area where a well thought out standard (open) for the transport and a non-intrusive audio standard that is easy to comply with, but still tells the OS everything it needs to use generic drivers, would give audio IF manufacturers a path forward with no FW. In otherwords, an interface that already works solid with Protools, logic, etc. and perhaps just so happens to also work with linux.... and is fast enough to work for FOH snake use to boot, might just fly. (if it was cheap enough :) ) I'm thinking as I am talking :) I think for development of the protocol for transfer, the best box would be one of the small atom based cards with the two nics already installed and just use the audio IF already there. I would tend to use something like aes10(madi) to assemble audio packets, that is a group of aes3 channels in serial. However, I would limit the number of channels based on bandwidth. For example, with a 100m ethernet line, I would not try for 64 channels if there was network traffic as well. This may mean that the channel count was limited.... But, there is no reason a desktop box could not add a second ethernet card for expansion. If things are externally synced the alsa driver could take all enet audio interfaces and make one alsa device out of it with no multi stuff. But before that limit came up, the boxes could be daisy chained first. No set up required, unplug the network add in another box and it's audio ports are added as part of the first boxes ports. So if two stereo boxes are chained the IF looks like a 4i/o IF to the computer. The box closer to the computer always has the lower numbered ports. The network traffic would stay small packets till the last box in line where they would be normal sized on their way out. Because, these boxen are based on linux, even if the the protocol was not jack based, a jack based mixer could be used which was alsa controlable... it could also be OSC or MIDI controlable too. This would allow DSP plugins to be added... LV2, LADSPA, Linux VST. They could be loaded from the computer as some are now, but would be open. (though the user does not need to know that) The interface closest to the network would be able to have network audio like netjack or the new zita net connection that would show up as just another interface port. At this point I would add to my jack wish list the ability for jack to have names for inputs and outputs from alsa. (look at the names alsamixer has - wow someone has fixed my alsa driver so the mic shows as two inputs, one inverted instead of right being inverted to left - in my netbook) But having the spdif labeled as such in jack would be a help. Knowing that input 11&12 are just the monitor mixer would be nice too. All of the routing in the interface would (like the ice1712) show up in alsa, but also (why not) show up as two OSC and/or MIDI ports. This would allow all internal functions to be controled by a MIDI control surface. The midi control surface could be connected through the DAW or directly to the IF (by USB would be best, but if there was a uart on the IF board a 5 pin din could be there too. The trick with all this is to make it the internal stuff invisible to the user unless they really wanted to see more. The OSx/win/linux user could be very happy just using it as an audio IF. The more adverturous user might ssh -y in and have a gui menu show up on their DAW gui (or whatever the OSx/win equivalent is) where they could control the IF computer more closely. The IF could record direct to USB disk for example. The goal would be a one way measured latency of 1.5ms, though chaining two together may make that not possible. The start as I said, is not hardware really, but software. System side software. Right now it is just a dream (it may never get past that), but it is not impossible if done one step at a time. I had thought that which step is done first is important, but maybe not so much. There are certain things that can be done independantly too. It occures to me there are two alsa drivers to write. One for the daw and one for the IF. A jack backend may work instead. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 05:42:49 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 22:42:49 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences Message-ID: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> linux-audio-user: I've been running a Debian Wheezy DAW (i386, Xfce, realtime kernel, Audacity, Rosegarden, various synthesizers, etc.) for the past week or two. It sort of worked. But, it's clearly not ready for taking on stage for a performance. I checked for backports of more recent DAW titles, but none are available. So, today I rebuilt the machine using Debian Testing (Jessie). I started by downloading the 288 MB "netinst" ISO image. This was followed by 100's of MB of downloads to install the base system, graphical desktop (Xfce), laptop packages, SSH server, and print server. I fed my list of desired general-purpose, kernel, and DAW packages to Apt and it wanted to download another 1+ GB of files (!). I shook my head and lit it off. After several hours of hogging my 1.5 Mbps Internet connection, I noticed that Apt was downloading a 323 MB documentation package. Since when is documentation a *required* package? For that matter, when is 288 MB a "small" installation image? And, there are other issues with Debian (such as cdrkit/ isoinfo). So, it's time for me to look for another Linux distribution. Are there any recommendations for a Linux distribution that: 1. Works correctly. 2. Is efficient in both space and time. 3. Offers a kernel suitable for DAW use at install time. 4. Offers current DAW software binary packages. 5. Provides simple OOTB *user* and *administrator* experiences -- e.g. minimal technical wrenching around under the hood. TIA, David p.s. I read the recent thread on the same topic and researched some of the responses (archive server down at the moment). The apparent favorite, Arch Linux, fails criteria #5 (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pro_Audio). The runner-up, Ubuntu Studio, is 2+ GB and therefore fails criteria #2. The also-ran, Debian, fails #1, 2, and 3. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Sep 1 07:00:11 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 21:00:11 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5404197B.9010207@hawaii.rr.com> On 08/31/2014 07:42 PM, David Christensen wrote: > linux-audio-user: > > I've been running a Debian Wheezy DAW (i386, Xfce, realtime kernel, > Audacity, Rosegarden, various synthesizers, etc.) for the past week or > two. It sort of worked. But, it's clearly not ready for taking on > stage for a performance. > > > I checked for backports of more recent DAW titles, but none are available. > > > So, today I rebuilt the machine using Debian Testing (Jessie). > > > I started by downloading the 288 MB "netinst" ISO image. This was > followed by 100's of MB of downloads to install the base system, > graphical desktop (Xfce), laptop packages, SSH server, and print server. > > > I fed my list of desired general-purpose, kernel, and DAW packages to > Apt and it wanted to download another 1+ GB of files (!). I shook my > head and lit it off. > > > After several hours of hogging my 1.5 Mbps Internet connection, I > noticed that Apt was downloading a 323 MB documentation package. > > > Since when is documentation a *required* package? > > > For that matter, when is 288 MB a "small" installation image? > > > And, there are other issues with Debian (such as cdrkit/ isoinfo). > > > So, it's time for me to look for another Linux distribution. Are there > any recommendations for a Linux distribution that: > > 1. Works correctly. > > 2. Is efficient in both space and time. > > 3. Offers a kernel suitable for DAW use at install time. > > 4. Offers current DAW software binary packages. > > 5. Provides simple OOTB *user* and *administrator* experiences -- e.g. > minimal technical wrenching around under the hood. Musix 3. Don't know how it fits any of your above criteria, but it does work reasonably. I'm not a fan of any particular specific Linux audio distro, but, sorry, 288MB IS a small install image. Too small for me! Don't know of any distro that keeps CURRENT with audio software. I use Debian Sid, and it's usually a release behind. Perhaps an Ubuntu-based distro would be more current? -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From bob at mellowood.ca Mon Sep 1 03:23:08 2014 From: bob at mellowood.ca (Bob van der Poel) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 20:23:08 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Timidity on external USB Message-ID: Hi guys. I know I did this before ... but for some reason I can't get timidity to play on my laptop to an external USB device. Works fine using the internal speakers. I can play audio to the USB. No problems there. But, timidity just won't play nice. No errors (of course). And no sound either. I've noticed that the timidity daemon gets launched at boot, and I have killed that ... no changes. I'm going to work on this some more tomorrow (after i get a good sleep), but the first thing I'm doing is to kill the daemon. This is being controlled by pulse, but that should help :) I need to get this working in the next few days for a little gig and I don't want to rely on the internal speakers going to an amp! Thanks. -- **** Listen to my FREE CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob at mellowood.ca WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moshwe at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 07:59:37 2014 From: moshwe at gmail.com (Moshe Werner) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 10:59:37 +0300 Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: References: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > On Sun, 31 Aug 2014, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > > Just some quick thoughts, perhaps not as complete as they could >> be. -- Len Ovens >> >> Doing pretty good I'd say, Len, I have been periodically studying this for >> quite a while. And now that Firewire is going pass? I have to do it again >> :-) >> >> There is one hardware approach which I have not seen at all yet: this is >> combination of (say) eight simple stereo USB interfaces, into one box. >> Shouldn't it be fairly doable, to take eight satisfactory-quality USB >> interfaces, wire their timing chips together, write a custom driver, and >> go? Or don't bother with the timing chips and the driver and use zita >> tools >> or multiple Jackd processes, and build this with a Raspberry Pi (or one of >> the more powerful act-alikes) as a jackd-over-tcp/ip audio appliance? >> > > Sounds expensive. The RP is just good enough to deal with one USB device > it seems. So take one of the 6inch atom based boards... the price is still > high. Remember, there is an 18 i/o USB2 device already available that works > quite well for ~$500 all synced already. True, 10 of those ports are > digital so would require another $180(adat - ADA8000) plus $30 for the > spdif box (line in only so more for the last two mic pre) > > Any USB IF with mic pres I have seen are ~$100 and would require dedicated > USB ports... this means you might be able to plug two into the MB ports and > the rest would require adding more USB ports to the MB (PCIe). > > > There is the fact, though, that USB2 and before, are monodirectional -- >> half >> duplex. They transmit data only one direction at a time. Yes, they flip >> back and forth very very fast, but no matter what, that's not good for >> us. >> > > That would explain the 6+ms latency (that might be round trip) which is > really not too bad. I think I would be tempted to use the MB audio as one > input pair and three or four output pairs, but with 18 i/o, why bother. > > > But USB3, happily, now gives us a full duplex capability. Perhaps this >> will >> mean that once small-studio-priced USB3 multitrack interfaces come out, >> they >> may be simpler, and therefore potentially less expensive? >> > > Probably not much cheaper. The mic pre is the expensive part. The thing > is, If I had an audio interface based on an old 10Meg ethernet (not many > channels), it would still work on a gigabyte ethernet system... Even > through a switch. So far USB3 still supports USB1, but the physical plug is > changing, by the time we hit USB5, USB1 and 2 may no longer work. Sending > cat5 (or whatever) up 20 floors and prewiring a building is something no > one wants to have to change. There is a lot of servers around that use > ethernet and good reason to keep the plug the same. But a new computer most > often comes with new mouse, keyboard and printer (new printers are > network). Most USB devices are low cost... Audio devices are an exception > to this but the market share for USB audio is really pretty tiny. USB3 > seems to be for hard drives and other fast data storage. > > I would tend to look at what the profesional people are doing... ethernet > and PCIe. (broadcast, FOH and major studios). I should perhaps add audio > over video.. or encoded as part of the video. > > The audio interface ends up being a signifcant part of the DAW cost which > once purchaced we would rather keep through a computer upgrade. Even better > if we can add more channels to it by adding a second IF or inexpensive > expansion box. > > For an open audio interface with expandability built in, I think I would > start with the processor board with two ethernet ports. Then I would be > looking for a standard bus that most codecs/spdif chips support to base the > modules on. The first one would feature spdif i/o, probably just one (two > channels). because it is a small computer that would run linux, a netjack > master would be included. > > Why two ethernet ports? Expandability and network passthrough. The idea is > to write ethernet drivers that will split non-audio packets small enough > that they do not interfere with the audio and recombine them on the other > end. It would also allow putting sync on the line because we could delay > other traffic around the sync on both ends. This also means that the user > does not have to buy another nic or use wlan if they can't/don't want to. > On the other hand, if they did have another nic, the second nic on our IF > could be used for expansion to a second IF if our expansion was already > used up on the first. > > While I would start with a netjack protocol because it would be > linux/osx/win compatible right off. I might be inclined to come up with > something lighter in the long run that would show up in ALSA and the native > OSx/win audio as well. I think this is an area where a well thought out > standard (open) for the transport and a non-intrusive audio standard that > is easy to comply with, but still tells the OS everything it needs to use > generic drivers, would give audio IF manufacturers a path forward with no > FW. In otherwords, an interface that already works solid with Protools, > logic, etc. and perhaps just so happens to also work with linux.... and is > fast enough to work for FOH snake use to boot, might just fly. (if it was > cheap enough :) ) > > I'm thinking as I am talking :) I think for development of the protocol > for transfer, the best box would be one of the small atom based cards with > the two nics already installed and just use the audio IF already there. I > would tend to use something like aes10(madi) to assemble audio packets, > that is a group of aes3 channels in serial. However, I would limit the > number of channels based on bandwidth. For example, with a 100m ethernet > line, I would not try for 64 channels if there was network traffic as well. > This may mean that the channel count was limited.... But, there is no > reason a desktop box could not add a second ethernet card for expansion. If > things are externally synced the alsa driver could take all enet audio > interfaces and make one alsa device out of it with no multi stuff. But > before that limit came up, the boxes could be daisy chained first. No set > up required, unplug the network add in another box and it's audio ports are > added as part of the first boxes ports. So if two stereo boxes are chained > the IF looks like a 4i/o IF to the computer. The box closer to the computer > always has the lower numbered ports. The network traffic would stay small > packets till the last box in line where they would be normal sized on their > way out. > > Because, these boxen are based on linux, even if the the protocol was not > jack based, a jack based mixer could be used which was alsa controlable... > it could also be OSC or MIDI controlable too. This would allow DSP plugins > to be added... LV2, LADSPA, Linux VST. They could be loaded from the > computer as some are now, but would be open. (though the user does not need > to know that) > > The interface closest to the network would be able to have network audio > like netjack or the new zita net connection that would show up as just > another interface port. > > At this point I would add to my jack wish list the ability for jack to > have names for inputs and outputs from alsa. (look at the names alsamixer > has - wow someone has fixed my alsa driver so the mic shows as two inputs, > one inverted instead of right being inverted to left - in my netbook) But > having the spdif labeled as such in jack would be a help. Knowing that > input 11&12 are just the monitor mixer would be nice too. > > All of the routing in the interface would (like the ice1712) show up in > alsa, but also (why not) show up as two OSC and/or MIDI ports. This would > allow all internal functions to be controled by a MIDI control surface. The > midi control surface could be connected through the DAW or directly to the > IF (by USB would be best, but if there was a uart on the IF board a 5 pin > din could be there too. > > The trick with all this is to make it the internal stuff invisible to the > user unless they really wanted to see more. The OSx/win/linux user could be > very happy just using it as an audio IF. The more adverturous user might > ssh -y in and have a gui menu show up on their DAW gui (or whatever the > OSx/win equivalent is) where they could control the IF computer more > closely. The IF could record direct to USB disk for example. > > The goal would be a one way measured latency of 1.5ms, though chaining two > together may make that not possible. > > The start as I said, is not hardware really, but software. System side > software. > > Right now it is just a dream (it may never get past that), but it is not > impossible if done one step at a time. I had thought that which step is > done first is important, but maybe not so much. There are certain things > that can be done independantly too. It occures to me there are two alsa > drivers to write. One for the daw and one for the IF. A jack backend may > work instead. > > -- > Len Ovens > www.ovenwerks.net > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > Wow Len what a brainstorm! I like your Idea! That would be the ideal modular platform. But if we're going the ethernet route why not Ravenna? It's open standard I think. Wouldn't there be a possibility to implement DSP or even Jack in Ravenna? Consoles from Lawo are Linux based and use Ravenna. Just some quick thoughts. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moshwe at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 08:08:50 2014 From: moshwe at gmail.com (Moshe Werner) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 11:08:50 +0300 Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: References: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: > I like your Idea! That would be the ideal modular platform. > But if we're going the ethernet route why not Ravenna? It's open standard > I think. > Wouldn't there be a possibility to implement DSP or even Jack in Ravenna? > Consoles from Lawo are Linux based and use Ravenna. > > Just some quick thoughts. > I just remembered that we had a discussion about Ravenna here before, I think the conclusion was that it's not that simple... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clemens at ladisch.de Mon Sep 1 08:17:40 2014 From: clemens at ladisch.de (Clemens Ladisch) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:17:40 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Timidity on external USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54042BA4.7050207@ladisch.de> Bob van der Poel wrote: > I can't get timidity to play on my laptop to an external USB device. How did you try to configure it? Regards, Clemens From murks at tuxfamily.org Mon Sep 1 08:49:37 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 10:49:37 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <20140901104937.492504ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 22:42:49 -0700 David Christensen wrote: > linux-audio-user: > > I've been running a Debian Wheezy DAW (i386, Xfce, realtime kernel, > Audacity, Rosegarden, various synthesizers, etc.) for the past week > or two. It sort of worked. But, it's clearly not ready for taking > on stage for a performance. > > > I checked for backports of more recent DAW titles, but none are > available. > > > So, today I rebuilt the machine using Debian Testing (Jessie). > > > I started by downloading the 288 MB "netinst" ISO image. This was > followed by 100's of MB of downloads to install the base system, > graphical desktop (Xfce), laptop packages, SSH server, and print > server. > > > I fed my list of desired general-purpose, kernel, and DAW packages to > Apt and it wanted to download another 1+ GB of files (!). I shook my > head and lit it off. > > > After several hours of hogging my 1.5 Mbps Internet connection, I > noticed that Apt was downloading a 323 MB documentation package. > > > Since when is documentation a *required* package? > > > For that matter, when is 288 MB a "small" installation image? > > > And, there are other issues with Debian (such as cdrkit/ isoinfo). > > > So, it's time for me to look for another Linux distribution. Are > there any recommendations for a Linux distribution that: > > 1. Works correctly. > > 2. Is efficient in both space and time. > > 3. Offers a kernel suitable for DAW use at install time. > > 4. Offers current DAW software binary packages. > > 5. Provides simple OOTB *user* and *administrator* experiences -- > e.g. minimal technical wrenching around under the hood. > > > TIA, > > David > > > p.s. I read the recent thread on the same topic and researched some > of the responses (archive server down at the moment). The apparent > favorite, Arch Linux, fails criteria #5 > (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pro_Audio). The runner-up, > Ubuntu Studio, is 2+ GB and therefore fails criteria #2. The > also-ran, Debian, fails #1, 2, and 3. I'm an Arch user since a couple of years and I know that not everything is great in Arch land either. Setting Arch up definitely takes some time and expertise (the general information on the wiki is good, for the audio part you'll likely need additional sources). However, once Arch is set up properly the administrative work is very reasonable. I doubt that you will find a distribution that meets all your requirements. Regards, Philipp From contact at alexandredenis.net Mon Sep 1 09:09:11 2014 From: contact at alexandredenis.net (Alexandre DENIS) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 11:09:11 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 22:42:49 -0700 David Christensen wrote: > Since when is documentation a *required* package? Documentation is not *required*, it is suggested or recommended. Put the following two lines in your /etc/apt/apt.conf APT::Install-Suggests "0"; APT::Install-Recommends "0"; It should drastically reduce the number of unwanted packages installed by default. For up-to-date audio packages, you can add kxstudio in your list of repositories. -a. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available URL: From marco at marcochapeau.org Mon Sep 1 09:39:30 2014 From: marco at marcochapeau.org (Marc-Olivier Barre) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:39:30 +0200 Subject: [LAU] linuxaudio mailing lists and gmail issues (bounces) Message-ID: Hi everyone, Some of you might have noticed, we're having issues delivering mailing lists posts to gmail users (it can be fairly random). I'm also having similar issues at work and on my own server. It seems gmail has tightened their filtering rules a bit and generate quite the amount of backscatter emails which generally results in mailman accounts being disabled. TL;DR mailman issues, gmail sucks, I'm working on a fix :) Cheers ! -- Marc-Olivier Barre XMPP ID : marco at marcochapeau.org www.MarcOChapeau.org From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Sep 1 09:41:18 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:41:18 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <1409564478.1307.8.camel@rocketmail.com> Hi David, On Sun, 2014-08-31 at 22:42 -0700, David Christensen wrote: > I've been running a Debian Wheezy DAW (i386, Xfce, realtime kernel, > Audacity, Rosegarden, various synthesizers, etc.) for the past week or > two. It sort of worked. But, it's clearly not ready for taking on > stage for a performance. trying to fix issues often makes more sense, than to switch from one to another distro. Sometimes just replacing one tool by another does solve a problem. > I started by downloading the 288 MB "netinst" ISO image. This was > followed by 100's of MB of downloads to install the base system, > graphical desktop (Xfce), laptop packages, SSH server, and print server. I prefer another distro, but what happened here is absolutely ok. > I fed my list of desired general-purpose, kernel, and DAW packages to > Apt and it wanted to download another 1+ GB of files (!). I shook my > head and lit it off. My Arch Linux install takes around 30 GiB, but it's possible to keep an install very small. > Since when is documentation a *required* package? Perhaps it's just an optional dependency. > For that matter, when is 288 MB a "small" installation image? https://www.debian.org/CD/netinst/ It just enables you to install from the Internet, but it provides all kinds of even nowadays exotic way to connect to the Internet, such as PPPoE and they are easy to set up. Is there a valid reason to make such a CD smaller? > So, it's time for me to look for another Linux distribution. Are there > any recommendations for a Linux distribution that: > > 1. Works correctly. > > 2. Is efficient in both space and time. The Linux philosophy is self-responsibility, because this enables to customize user space to the users needs. Something pre-build could fit to your needs or doesn't fit to your needs. You still need to test several available audio distros. > 3. Offers a kernel suitable for DAW use at install time. Arch Linux, but you won't like the KISS principle and that packages aren't split, so you would lose a few KiB for headers you perhaps never will use. > 4. Offers current DAW software binary packages. Arch Linux does, but it ... > 5. Provides simple OOTB *user* and *administrator* experiences -- e.g. > minimal technical wrenching around under the hood. ... isn't an OOTB solution. OOTB are Ubuntu Studio, AVLinux, KXStudio and some others. http://ubuntustudio.org/ http://www.bandshed.net/AVLinux.html http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/ But if you always want to get the current "stable" versions from upstream, than AVLinux might be not a good solution, but the rolling release Arch Linux would be. Audio distros based on other distros might conflict with official repositories. Ubuntu Studio isn't just based on *buntu, it's an official *buntu distro. > The apparent favorite, Arch Linux, fails criteria #5 I'm an Arch Linux user and I agree. > The runner-up, Ubuntu Studio, is 2+ GB and therefore fails criteria #2. Yesno. It's not a clean audio distro. After installing it, you could remove all the packages that aren't related to audio or perhaps somebody could explain you how to make a *buntu expert install with installing just the Ubuntu Studio audio meta-packages. It's simply impossible to provide an OOTB distro + community for 1000 and more different needs. From raffaele.morelli at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 09:42:41 2014 From: raffaele.morelli at gmail.com (Raffaele Morelli) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 11:42:41 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: 2014-09-01 7:42 GMT+02:00 David Christensen : > linux-audio-user: > > I've been running a Debian Wheezy DAW (i386, Xfce, realtime kernel, > Audacity, Rosegarden, various synthesizers, etc.) for the past week or > two. It sort of worked. But, it's clearly not ready for taking on stage > for a performance. > > > I checked for backports of more recent DAW titles, but none are available. > > > So, today I rebuilt the machine using Debian Testing (Jessie). > > > I started by downloading the 288 MB "netinst" ISO image. This was > followed by 100's of MB of downloads to install the base system, graphical > desktop (Xfce), laptop packages, SSH server, and print server. > > > I fed my list of desired general-purpose, kernel, and DAW packages to Apt > and it wanted to download another 1+ GB of files (!). I shook my head and > lit it off. > > > After several hours of hogging my 1.5 Mbps Internet connection, I noticed > that Apt was downloading a 323 MB documentation package. > > > Since when is documentation a *required* package? > > > For that matter, when is 288 MB a "small" installation image? Your complaints are quite presumptuous. Of course 288Mb is a small installation image, compared to the standard 4.5GB dvd and 700Mb cd iso images. A complete (suits for a DAW) linux distro installation requires ~5-7Gb, no matter which one you choose. > And, there are other issues with Debian (such as cdrkit/ isoinfo). > > > So, it's time for me to look for another Linux distribution. Are there > any recommendations for a Linux distribution that: > > 1. Works correctly. > 2. Is efficient in both space and time. > 3. Offers a kernel suitable for DAW use at install time. > 4. Offers current DAW software binary packages. > 5. Provides simple OOTB *user* and *administrator* experiences -- e.g. > minimal technical wrenching around under the hood. > > TIA, > > David > > p.s. I read the recent thread on the same topic and researched some of > the responses (archive server down at the moment). The apparent favorite, > Arch Linux, fails criteria #5 (https://wiki.archlinux.org/ > index.php/Pro_Audio). The runner-up, Ubuntu Studio, is 2+ GB and > therefore fails criteria #2. The also-ran, Debian, fails #1, 2, and 3. You fail on the base criteria: you do not know "enough" about linux and asking for a ready-to-go distro (corollary 6. learn to use google) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Sep 1 10:07:59 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 12:07:59 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <1409566079.1307.10.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-01 at 11:42 +0200, Raffaele Morelli wrote: > You fail on the base criteria: you do not know "enough" about linux > and asking for a ready-to-go distro (corollary 6. learn to use google) That reminds me of the importance to use distros with huge communities. The smaller a community is - there are in general less people who could help - there are less people who share similar computer needs - the more likely there could be deep-rooted dislike against people who don't fit to the world view of the small community Linux audio users are just a small group, what ever distro you use, but audio users usually also use desktop environments, Internet browsers and other user space software, so you should use a distro with a huge community. More people could help, more people share similar needs, much more people with different world views, IOW much more tolerance. Anyway, every user should learn how to use https://startpage.com/ or a similar search engine, but for a novice it's not that easy to do, IOW you should provide more information about the issues you experienced, about your needs and then people subscribed to this list could help you. From jhernberg at alchemy.lu Mon Sep 1 10:29:47 2014 From: jhernberg at alchemy.lu (Joakim Hernberg) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:29:47 +0200 Subject: [LAU] html5 audio through jack In-Reply-To: References: <1409395113.3154.5.camel@espelho> <540203FD.5070803@rektau.ukfsn.org> Message-ID: <20140901122947.5af6e073@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 01:57:04 +0545 Kazakore wrote: > I'm sure it used to be at the bottom of this page it had a note about > how going the ALSA Loopback route would stop you being able to change > settings from within QJackCtl, and just at the same point I read it > there was a thread on here by somebody not being able to set up Jack > through QJackCtl which at the time I assumed must be related. Can't > see any comment on it anywhere at all now though... > > http://jackaudio.org/faq/routing_alsa.html > > But obviously that would be unacceptable and why I never tried > re-routing ALSA. I think the nice thing about the alsa loopback is that if you stop jack, the alsa programs are oblivious to it, they keep playing to the loopback. When you start jack again and use the alsa to jack bridges (jack/zita) to connect the loopback and jack everything starts playing again. -- Joakim From jhernberg at alchemy.lu Mon Sep 1 11:05:13 2014 From: jhernberg at alchemy.lu (Joakim Hernberg) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 13:05:13 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface? In-Reply-To: References: <20140827143830.GA7320@aol.com> <201408282037.53956.gheskett@wdtv.com> <201408282245.42030.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: <20140901130513.6412c260@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 11:27:24 +0545 dale wrote: > I sometimes think the hunt for super-low latency is a bit absurd! 3ms, > to give you a 6ms round trip, should be a workable amount for pretty > much anybody and most I expect could cope with quite a lot higher (not > many working methods require the full round trip!) I think that might be explained by "hidden" hardware latency, e.g my multiface has 32 frames of hardware buffering, and then the ada conversion takes another 15/16 frames. In effect meaning that apart from the latency set in jack, there is another 95 frames of latency going from analog input to output. Other hardware can add a lot more "hidden" latency, and so do the usb/fw bus. This can be checked relatively easily with a loopback test. -- Joakim From jeremy at autostatic.com Mon Sep 1 11:32:13 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 13:32:13 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5404593D.5020801@autostatic.com> On 09/01/2014 07:42 AM, David Christensen wrote: > linux-audio-user: > > I've been running a Debian Wheezy DAW (i386, Xfce, realtime kernel, > Audacity, Rosegarden, various synthesizers, etc.) for the past week or > two. It sort of worked. But, it's clearly not ready for taking on > stage for a performance. > Hello David, I wouldn't go on stage with a vanilla Debian Wheezy installation either. Unfortunately I'm unaware of any distro that is not supposed to run on dedicated hardware that is stage worthy right after installation. Almost any distro will need some additional tweaking to be usable on stage. > > I checked for backports of more recent DAW titles, but none are available. > > > So, today I rebuilt the machine using Debian Testing (Jessie). > > > I started by downloading the 288 MB "netinst" ISO image. This was > followed by 100's of MB of downloads to install the base system, > graphical desktop (Xfce), laptop packages, SSH server, and print server. > If you want a minimal install you shouldn't select any additional packages during installation. Those will pull in all recommended packages like mentioned before. > > I fed my list of desired general-purpose, kernel, and DAW packages to > Apt and it wanted to download another 1+ GB of files (!). I shook my > head and lit it off. > > > After several hours of hogging my 1.5 Mbps Internet connection, I > noticed that Apt was downloading a 323 MB documentation package. > > > Since when is documentation a *required* package? > Try using the apt.conf lines mentioned earlier or use apt-get --no-install-recommends install packagename. > > For that matter, when is 288 MB a "small" installation image? > > > And, there are other issues with Debian (such as cdrkit/ isoinfo). > > > So, it's time for me to look for another Linux distribution. Are there > any recommendations for a Linux distribution that: > > 1. Works correctly. > > 2. Is efficient in both space and time. > > 3. Offers a kernel suitable for DAW use at install time. > > 4. Offers current DAW software binary packages. > > 5. Provides simple OOTB *user* and *administrator* experiences -- e.g. > minimal technical wrenching around under the hood. > > > TIA, > > David Try AV Linux, I think it meets all your requirements in your case, maybe just not #5 but like I said, almost any distro needs additional tweaking after being installed to be useable on stage. Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From abonnements at revolwear.com Mon Sep 1 12:40:37 2014 From: abonnements at revolwear.com (Max) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 21:40:37 +0900 Subject: [LAU] html5 audio through jack In-Reply-To: References: <1409395113.3154.5.camel@espelho> <540203FD.5070803@rektau.ukfsn.org> Message-ID: <54046945.1040902@revolwear.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 That's the reason I removed QJackQtl entirely. Cadence is doing a much better job, IMHO QJackQtl should be depreciated in favour of Cadence. You can control Jack bridges for ALSA and PulseAudio from within Cadence. No more headdache. On 08/31/2014 05:12 AM, Kazakore wrote: > > On 30/08/14 22:48, rob wrote: >> On 30/08/14 13:09, Kazakore wrote: >>> >>> On 30/08/14 16:23, Iain Mott wrote: >>>> Hi list, >>>> >>>> I'm thinking of updating some of my web pages to use >>>> multi-platform flash/html5 audio players, at present they use >>>> flash only and won't play on iPads for example. >>>> >>>> Due to some problems I was having with pulse audio in >>>> relation to my HDSP interface I have recently disabled it and >>>> all my audio is running via jack/alsa and the HDSP interface. >>>> With flash in firefox, there are no problems and the audio >>>> plays. My .asoundrc is configured with the following: >>>> >>>> pcm.rawjack { type jack playback_ports { 0 system:playback_1 >>>> 1 system:playback_2 } capture_ports { 0 system:capture_1 1 >>>> system:capture_2 } } >>>> >>>> pcm.jack { type plug slave { pcm "rawjack" } hint { >>>> description "JACK Audio Connection Kit" } } >>>> >>>> >>>> pcm.!default { type plug slave { pcm "rawjack" } } >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> HTML5 players in firefox don't play however via jack. When >>>> pulse was enabled, HTML5 content would play through the >>>> computer's built-in sound card. Now that it's disabled I >>>> can't get it to play through jack. >>>> >>>> An example page with a HTML5 player is here: >>>> >>>> http://www.html5tutorial.info/html5-audio.php >>>> >>>> Any suggestions please? A modification of the .asoundrc? >>>> >>>> I'm running Ubuntu 14.04 >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Linux-audio-user mailing list >>>> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org >>>> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user >>> >>> Can't help but can tell you I have the exact same problem! I >>> also don't get audio from streaming media directly from the >>> internet (eg a web hosted .ogg) Have you managed to get that >>> working? I use VLC's Multimedia Plugin for firefox, VLC is set >>> to Jack, also have all GStreamer routed through Jack, but >>> "normal" firefox audio never reaches it. >>> >>> Good luck with this one. It's part of the reason Arch is >>> feeling so appealing to me right now. I can truly get a system >>> with no P(IT)A in there! ;-) >>> >>> Dale. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >> http://alsa.opensrc.org/Jack_and_Loopback_device_as_Alsa-to-Jack_bridge >> might be worth looking at. >> >> rob >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> > > I'm sure it used to be at the bottom of this page it had a note > about how going the ALSA Loopback route would stop you being able > to change settings from within QJackCtl, and just at the same point > I read it there was a thread on here by somebody not being able to > set up Jack through QJackCtl which at the time I assumed must be > related. Can't see any comment on it anywhere at all now though... > > http://jackaudio.org/faq/routing_alsa.html > > But obviously that would be unacceptable and why I never tried > re-routing ALSA. > > Dale. _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlQEaUUACgkQ3EB7kzgMM6KnqgCaAgUic5at/60unYYnGM74POEQ EicAn0vwILQ8zNmTPQ7LZ92s9havwg7h =HFkI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From harryhaaren at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 13:00:15 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:00:15 +0100 Subject: [LAU] html5 audio through jack In-Reply-To: <54046945.1040902@revolwear.com> References: <1409395113.3154.5.camel@espelho> <540203FD.5070803@rektau.ukfsn.org> <54046945.1040902@revolwear.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 1:40 PM, Max wrote: > That's the reason I removed QJackQtl entirely. Cadence is doing a much > better job, IMHO QJackQtl should be depreciated in favour of Cadence. > You can control Jack bridges for ALSA and PulseAudio from within > Cadence. No more headdache. >From your point of view, it might make sense to deprecate QJackCtl. Please don't make the mistake of thinking everybody has the same use cases and system setup as you do. I'm glad Cadence solves your problem: QJackCtl solves mine :) Cheers, -Harry From serghei.mihai at devlibre.net Mon Sep 1 13:00:35 2014 From: serghei.mihai at devlibre.net (Serghei Mihai) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:00:35 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <20140901150035.759e3eda.sergiu.mihai@devlibre.net> On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 22:42:49 -0700 David Christensen wrote: > I started by downloading the 288 MB "netinst" ISO image. This was > followed by 100's of MB of downloads to install the base system, > graphical desktop (Xfce), laptop packages, SSH server, and print server. Actually more light netinst image (without basic packages), writable on a usb device, is available in all repositories, for example here: http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ It's "mini.iso". -- Serghei MIHAI Email : serghei.mihai at devlibre.net Jabber : sergiu.mihai at devlibre.net GPG key: 4096R/BF2FA1AF -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: not available URL: From murks at tuxfamily.org Mon Sep 1 13:04:12 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:04:12 +0200 Subject: [LAU] html5 audio through jack In-Reply-To: <54046945.1040902@revolwear.com> References: <1409395113.3154.5.camel@espelho> <540203FD.5070803@rektau.ukfsn.org> <54046945.1040902@revolwear.com> Message-ID: <20140901150412.3d99080f@eeyore> On Mon, 01 Sep 2014 21:40:37 +0900 Max wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > That's the reason I removed QJackQtl entirely. Cadence is doing a much > better job, IMHO QJackQtl should be depreciated in favour of Cadence. > You can control Jack bridges for ALSA and PulseAudio from within > Cadence. No more headdache. I tried Cadence only briefly and it seems that it is rather useless without jackdbus (which I guess means jack2), it can't even start jack. 'Deprecating' qjackctl makes no sense at all, it is a matter of preference. At least at the moment I personally prefer to start jackd from the command line and use patchage for connections. I think Cadence includes a fork of patchage (Catia) for connections. I guess as soon as NSM can start jack properly I'll use it for that purpose, after all I only start jack on demand and different projects might have different requirements, so for me it makes sense to tie the jack options to the project. -- Philipp From murks at tuxfamily.org Mon Sep 1 14:28:36 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 16:28:36 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140901162836.699d7da8@eeyore> On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 00:01:05 +0100 Harry van Haaren wrote: > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 8:32 PM, Philipp ?berbacher > wrote: > > Thanks a lot for your reply Harry. > Cheers, be careful to not remove the list from replies: its good to > keep everything in the archives for future reference :) Sorry for the mixup, it seems my client can't automatically reply to list if the list is in the cc (and it seems that is what gmail does by default, even though it would be perfectly fine if it sent the email just to the list). The list as second to: (like in this case) seems even worse, I needed to manually copy the list address into the to: field. Automation that works 90% of the time really sucks :) I changed my list options to send duplicate messages, hopefully that will help my client to do the right thing. > >> That's the correct way to handle this, as far as I know. Its > >> useful to have different directories on one system: it allows > >> subdiving your available sessions into groups like "albums" or > >> "projects-with-certain-people". Although I agree it feels a little > >> clunky, its quite powerful and useful. > > > > There could also be a subdivision in the NSM GUI. Well, the current > > way is certainly the simpler implementation, not sure it's simpler > > for the users :) > > Sure, and my original suggestion was a "stepping-stone" type idea, > with hopes to improve the workflow furthur, once this has become the > "biggest" issue NSM has :D I think the flexibility the command line option offers is nice, but the documentation could use an example, especially the necessary ' -- ' in there tripped me up. > >> > 2. Adding programs to sessions through the GUI ("Add Client to > >> > Session") is the only way? Is there no way to attach running > >> > clients or at least have some comfort like tab completion to add > >> > clients? > >> NSM does not support this "attach" workflow, but tab completion or > >> a list of available (fully supported) NSM clients would be a good > >> improvement on workflow. This should be discussed as to how best > >> implement it: i'm not sure. > > > > Right, a list of supported Clients would also be nice, however, I > > see two problems: > > 1. The list would need to be updated somehow, and even then it > > would be a bit problematic because different distributions ship > > different versions of the software. NSM might already list a > > program as supported while the installed version of the program > > does not yet support NSM. 2. The other programs, audio or just > > related, should ideally also be listed, and that task is impossible. > > Actually this might be possible to solve with a "packaging" trick as > such: have programs install a file into a specific location (that is > currently *not* used by any program) to denote its NSM support. I'll > suggest installing a file in /usr/share/nsm/ , and if there's a file > there, then the filename without extension represents that a program > is capable of NSM. This would require *all* NSM clients to explicitly > add an NSM file. > > Perhaps other developers more involved in packaging / > "feature-announcing" will have a better idea here, I'm all ears, my > suggestion above is just that: a suggestion. I guess this packaging trick would work, but for some reason I really don't like it. An alternative idea: NSM could ship with a list of programs that are supported, including the information since which version nsm is supported. It could then check the installed version and I guess the tricky part is to do that reliably. Another idea: NSM could keep a list of nsm-capable programs that were started on this particular machine. Once you started zynaddsubfx through nsm it will show up on the list. I guess this is reasonable but it fails to help in the initial discovery process. Maybe add a safe default list, anything with nsm support in debian stable or something like that. Finally just having bash completion would be helpful. No idea how hard it is, probably not too hard. Otherwise it would be useful to just use an external program like dmenu and pipe that into nsm. > >> > 3. Jack and NSM. How do you handle that? It is possible to start > >> > jack through NSM proxy and I guess it is OK to do that as long as > >> > jack reliably starts before jackpatch (something I'm not sure > >> > of). First I had just jackpatch in there and it started jack for > >> > me with a whole lot of options that are unfamiliar to me and > >> > probably not needed. > >> > >> I imagine that NSM will launch said JACK apps, and if one is set to > >> "start JACK" on jack_client_open() in its code, then it will start > >> JACK with the settings in ~/.jackdrc Perhaps the inclusion of a > >> "Start JACK" type client with particular settings can be > >> implemented in order to handle this? I'm open for suggestions too. > > > > That seems to be what happens, and its a race. In my experience > > jackpatch wins the race against jackd, so I have to start jack > > before the session. > > A start_jack client could be useful, but from what I have seen all > > we really need is the possibility to start a client before the > > others. The simple way would be a timeout, but you'd still have the > > race. Ideally there would be some way to tell NSM that jack has > > started and is ready. I have doubts that this is possible with plain > > jack1 and NSM proxy, maybe a special start_jack client could help > > here. > > NSM doesn't *explicitly* require JACK to be running actually: its > probably its most common use right now, but setting an explicit > dependency on JACK should be avoided. Perhaps a flag could be > introduce on a per-client basis, that represents > "start-before-others". This way, a "jackd" or "start-jack" client can > be loaded before the rest. Or even two or more "before-others" clients > could set up whatever needs setting up, before "normal-time" NSM > clients are loaded. > > Again, welcome input from users / devs. Actually jackconnect already does something similar, just the other way round. NSM waits for a certain period until all clients are loaded and sent ready. If some clients are not fast enough or ports are not there it still says that the session has been established and after that happened jackconnect starts to connect the ports that are there and ignores the ones that are not there. Doing something similar is probably not hard, a jackstart client would need to figure out when jack was successfully started (not sure how hard that is) and signal nsm to start all other clients. A more generic client that could do the same thing for other clients could be useful, but I guess not necessary unless someone actually comes up with a need for it. I'm not quite sure on what to do if it does not manage to start jack. Last night I forgot that I had the browser open and a youtube video on pause. I started jack but it failed since the audio device was still hogged by the browser. I didn't notice that jack failed and when I started the NSM session every single program tried to start jack and failed. The session was still established, sort of. It seems NSM currently just ignores any errors that occur. With the jackstart client that might be a bad idea, because if it fails for some reason and something else succeeds you might run jack with completely wrong options without noticing. On the other hand, you can't catch all possible user error. > >> > 4. CLI clients. Are they generally not supported? I added the lv2 > >> > host that was recommended to me (jalv) and had to do that through > >> > the NSM proxy, so the settings won't be saved even though the > >> > plugin (fabla in this case) can save its settings. This sort of > >> > defeats session management. With all the CLI tools we have it > >> > would be a pitty if that was generally not supported. On a > >> > sidenote, can someone recommend a plugin host that is supported? > >> > >> CLI clients are supported just like clients with a GUI, there is no > >> difference to NSM. The issue you're encountering here is that JALV > >> currently doesn't support NSM, which is something that I agree > >> needs fixing. I'll put JALV NSM support on the TODO, its something > >> I've lacked myself too. > > > > Ok, great. Does a CLI NSM client exist that I can try? > > None that I know of right now: Indeed JALV needs NSM, and jalv (the > command line version) will then be such a client. That would be great. > > I also noticed that JALV keeps hanging around > > after I close the session it is part of, is that expected behavior? > > This can be fixed by sending the "SIGTERM" in the lower part of the > "nsm-proxy" configuration dialog (where you fill in "jalv.gtk", and > the arguments to load a certain plugin). Thanks, but it does not work here. I see this line in the NSM output: [nsmd] Client NSM Proxy terminated because we told it to. But the client keeps hanging around. > >> > Well, that's it for now. Last time I heard about NSM I got the > >> > impression that it takes care of session management once and for > >> > all, but the first half our gave me a different impression. > >> OpenAV stands behind NSM: I'm willing to do my best to cooperate > >> with project developers to implement NSM in various programs, and > >> improve the workflow of session management. > >> > >> If there's any furthur questions, please ask, in the mean time, > >> I'll try code up some NSM :) -Harry > > > > Thanks a lot for your help Harry, we have used crutches for session > > management long enough. > > Agreed, lets try fix this together with the communit in the next > weeks, and never look back ;) > Cheers, -Harry It is great that you are lending a helping hand Harry, thanks. Best Regards, Philipp From murks at tuxfamily.org Mon Sep 1 14:46:13 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 16:46:13 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Update Phasex: Sequencer suggestions? In-Reply-To: <1409490950.14388.8.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1409056818.7093.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140826152022.785793f5@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1409060454.7093.10.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409060819.7093.12.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140826140820.GA16859@linuxaudio.org> <1409064038.7093.22.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140826151337.GB16859@linuxaudio.org> <20140826172024.734dd13f@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140826160630.GC16859@linuxaudio.org> <1409069791.7093.33.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140826162353.GD16859@linuxaudio.org> <1409260025.4790.8.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409261340.4790.11.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140829130233.38095a15@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1409490950.14388.8.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140901164613.4f51a054@eeyore> On Sun, 31 Aug 2014 15:15:50 +0200 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Fri, 2014-08-29 at 13:02 +0200, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > > I'm too stupid to patch apparently, otherwise I would have done it > > already. > > Reported and patches were added by the maintainer. Nobody needs to do > everything ;). Thanks Ralf, I tried it and it seems that the patch applied properly. I can't say much about the DC-offset problem yet, but phasex definitely needs more fixing. I can reliably crash phasex by attempting to switch from jack autoconnect to manual connections. With autoconnect enabled it is impossible to do any manual connections to and from phasex. It is possible to change that manually in the config file tough. A somewhat related question: What is the currently recommended way to bridge between alsa and jack midi? For now I start jack with '-X alsa_midi', which seems to work, at least in one direction. Regards, Philipp From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 14:56:15 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 20:41:15 +0545 Subject: [LAU] linuxaudio mailing lists and gmail issues (bounces) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 01/09/14 15:24, Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: > Hi everyone, > > Some of you might have noticed, we're having issues delivering mailing > lists posts to gmail users (it can be fairly random). I'm also having > similar issues at work and on my own server. It seems gmail has > tightened their filtering rules a bit and generate quite the amount of > backscatter emails which generally results in mailman accounts being > disabled. > > TL;DR > mailman issues, gmail sucks, I'm working on a fix :) > > Cheers ! I got kicked off the list a few days ago "Too many bounces" or similar. I'm on the even more evil and worse Hotmail though! ;-) Dale. From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 15:02:29 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 20:47:29 +0545 Subject: [LAU] Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface? In-Reply-To: <20140901130513.6412c260@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> References: <20140827143830.GA7320@aol.com> <201408282037.53956.gheskett@wdtv.com> <201408282245.42030.gheskett@wdtv.com> <20140901130513.6412c260@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> Message-ID: On 01/09/14 16:50, Joakim Hernberg wrote: > On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 11:27:24 +0545 > dale wrote: > >> I sometimes think the hunt for super-low latency is a bit absurd! 3ms, >> to give you a 6ms round trip, should be a workable amount for pretty >> much anybody and most I expect could cope with quite a lot higher (not >> many working methods require the full round trip!) > I think that might be explained by "hidden" hardware latency, e.g my > multiface has 32 frames of hardware buffering, and then the ada > conversion takes another 15/16 frames. In effect meaning that apart > from the latency set in jack, there is another 95 frames of latency > going from analog input to output. > > Other hardware can add a lot more "hidden" latency, and so do the > usb/fw bus. This can be checked relatively easily with a loopback test. > Yeah there will always be some processing/propagation delay. Too often I swear you just hear people hunting after figure and not even realising once they get the a point the hardware delays are actually going to be larger than the software delays and it's a world of diminishing returns... Dale. From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 15:14:28 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 20:59:28 +0545 Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: References: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: On 01/09/14 13:53, Moshe Werner wrote: > > I like your Idea! That would be the ideal modular platform. > But if we're going the ethernet route why not Ravenna? It's open > standard I think. > Wouldn't there be a possibility to implement DSP or even Jack in > Ravenna? > Consoles from Lawo are Linux based and use Ravenna. > > Just some quick thoughts. > > > I just remembered that we had a discussion about Ravenna here before, > I think the conclusion was that it's not that simple... > I assume you know CobraNet as well? Seemed to the choice for bigger concerts and FOH stuff a few years ago with support from a fair number of the bigger audio manufacturers. Don't think it's open like Ravenna though, which looks interesting with a fair few supporters in the industry, although not so much the ones I would associate with live sound and big events so much... Dale. From harryhaaren at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 15:19:48 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 16:19:48 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > I guess this packaging trick would work, but for some reason I really > don't like it. Well... it is the best way to have NSM-supporting programs announce that they support NSM, but also gives an opportunity to say "use this icon file for display in the NSM UI", and various other tweaks... > An alternative idea: NSM could ship with a list of programs that are > supported, including the information since which version nsm is > supported. It could then check the installed version and I guess the > tricky part is to do that reliably. Not good: parsing output of programs to identify NSM is a horrible, tedious and error prone "solution"... or "not solution". > Another idea: NSM could keep a list of nsm-capable programs that were > started on this particular machine. Once you started zynaddsubfx > through nsm it will show up on the list. Possible, installing a new machine, or users who are just starting won't know what programs support it: as you mention about discovery. I feel strongly that the solution here should instantly make it easy for any application to announce its NSM capability, and that no user interaction should take place (as begining users won't know that). > Finally just having bash completion would be helpful. I've not yet coded that type of functionality: but I presume some regex search on the contents of $PATH is sufficient. Perhaps there's a library for such out there. > Actually jackconnect already does something similar, just the other way > round. NSM waits for a certain period until all clients are loaded and > sent ready. If some clients are not fast enough or ports are not there > it still says that the session has been established and after that > happened jackconnect starts to connect the ports that are there and > ignores the ones that are not there. Actually JackPatch just scan's the JACK graph when new ports arrive, and attaches them if it "knows" about them in the save-file. There is no delayed loading and such AFAIK. > Doing something similar is probably not hard, a jackstart client would > need to figure out when jack was successfully started (not sure how > hard that is) and signal nsm to start all other clients. Yep: it doesn't need to explicitly be "JACK started" as such, just a "pre-startup" command, that announces "OK" when its done its setup-job. It can continue to run, and have different / related functionality then. > A more generic client that could do the same thing for other clients could be useful, > but I guess not necessary unless someone actually comes up with a need > for it. I program as concise and generic as possible: when somebody does find a use, it will already be supported. Cheers, -Harry From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 15:44:30 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 21:29:30 +0545 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <1409564478.1307.8.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <1409564478.1307.8.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: On 01/09/14 15:26, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Yesno. It's not a clean audio distro. After installing it, you could > remove all the packages that aren't related to audio or perhaps > somebody could explain you how to make a *buntu expert install with > installing just the Ubuntu Studio audio meta-packages. Actually US-14.04 allows you to choose which packages you install, whether you want to leave out (for example) the entire Graphic Design section, or just one or two of the Audio Production packages etc. Of course you still need to download the entire ISO in the first place though! Dale. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Sep 1 15:51:36 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 17:51:36 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Update Phasex: Sequencer suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20140901164613.4f51a054@eeyore> References: <1409056818.7093.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140826152022.785793f5@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1409060454.7093.10.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409060819.7093.12.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140826140820.GA16859@linuxaudio.org> <1409064038.7093.22.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140826151337.GB16859@linuxaudio.org> <20140826172024.734dd13f@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140826160630.GC16859@linuxaudio.org> <1409069791.7093.33.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140826162353.GD16859@linuxaudio.org> <1409260025.4790.8.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409261340.4790.11.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140829130233.38095a15@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1409490950.14388.8.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140901164613.4f51a054@eeyore> Message-ID: <1409586696.29067.3.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-01 at 16:46 +0200, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > A somewhat related question: What is the currently recommended way to > bridge between alsa and jack midi? For now I start jack with '-X > alsa_midi', which seems to work, at least in one direction. I don't know. It might be different for jack1 and jack2 and for different releases. For a current project, just interrupted by a cold, the script to restore sessions uses this combination, jack2 1.9.10-1 "-Xalsarawmidi" and "a2jmidid", assumed it still should be the best solution to minimize MIDI jitter, when using external synths, while for the few bars I played until now, I don't use external synths. If this shouldn't satisfy me, then I would start searching the LAU and LAD archives. Btw. yet the project only uses synth plugins and the bridge isn't needed: $ cat /home/music/arch2014.1/start.03.01 # [snip] # Kill $sessiond/aj-snapwrap --killall killall -9 -wq qjackctl qtractor zita-at1 jkmeter meterbridge a2jmidid jackd hdspmixer # Restore session roxterm --tab -n "? hdspmixer" -e "hdspmixer" ; sleep 2 roxterm --tab -n "? jackd" -e "jackd --sync -Xalsarawmidi -dalsa -r48000 -p256" ; sleep 2 roxterm --tab -n "? a2jmidid" -e "a2jmidid -e" ; sleep 2 #roxterm --tab -n "? meterbridge" -e "meterbridge -t jf left right -n jellyfish" ; sleep 2 roxterm --tab -n "? jkmeter" -e "jkmeter -C -type k20 -name phasecorrelator" ; sleep 2 roxterm --tab -n "? at1 left" -e "zita-at1 -name at1_left" ; sleep 2 roxterm --tab -n "? at1 right" -e "zita-at1 -name at1_right" ; sleep 2 roxterm --tab -n "? qtractor" -e "qtractor $sessiond/arch2014.1.$sessionv.qtr" ; sleep $sleepsec roxterm --tab -n "? qjackctl" -e "qjackctl" ; sleep $sleepsec roxterm --tab -n "? aj-snapshot" -e "$sessiond/aj-snapwrap -rx $sessiond/.tmp.$sessionv.ajs" exit From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 16:02:34 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 21:47:34 +0545 Subject: [LAU] html5 audio through jack In-Reply-To: <54046945.1040902@revolwear.com> References: <1409395113.3154.5.camel@espelho> <540203FD.5070803@rektau.ukfsn.org> <54046945.1040902@revolwear.com> Message-ID: On 08/31/2014 05:12 AM, Kazakore wrote: >> >> I'm sure it used to be at the bottom of this page it had a note >> about how going the ALSA Loopback route would stop you being able >> to change settings from within QJackCtl, and just at the same point >> I read it there was a thread on here by somebody not being able to >> set up Jack through QJackCtl which at the time I assumed must be >> related. Can't see any comment on it anywhere at all now though... >> >> http://jackaudio.org/faq/routing_alsa.html >> >> But obviously that would be unacceptable and why I never tried >> re-routing ALSA. >> >> On 01/09/14 18:25, Max wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > That's the reason I removed QJackQtl entirely. Cadence is doing a much > better job, IMHO QJackQtl should be depreciated in favour of Cadence. > You can control Jack bridges for ALSA and PulseAudio from within > Cadence. No more headdache. Actually pretty certain I was confused when I wrote that. It would be the Pulse Via Jack page that had the unable-to-control-jack-settings comment at the bottom and part of the reason for me going the Flash-Jack-plugin route (even if I did have to compile it myself.) But running US-14.04 there was really no need to do that if you're happy to keep PA running on your system, as it automatically creates Pulse-Jack-sinks which seemed to work fine enough until I disabled them... But I really don't agree with the idea of having so many audio systems, often all running in tandem! I want to keep most my playback through Jack as I like its routing options, so I'm happy enough to have it start at login. When I have some time I will have a look at the ALSA-Jack bridge but as I thought US was configured around PA and believed my FF plugin (VLC) used GStreamer I had tried setting everything related to these to Jack. Anyway going a bit off topic here. Think we should best keep it to the original poster's problem. As I said I can live with as it is, especially as I'm planning on having a play with different distros so until I settle down again I'm not going to worry about the smaller things I can live with ;-) Dale. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Sep 1 16:04:43 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 18:04:43 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: linuxaudio mailing lists and gmail issues (bounces) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1409587483.29067.5.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-01 at 20:41 +0545, Kazakore wrote: > I got kicked off the list a few days ago "Too many bounces" or > similar. A few days ago, the bounce score for my rocketmail account also was very high, so I had to follow a link to re-enable mail delivery. It isn't gmail only. Usually different Linux mailing list accounts, for different mailing lists, not Linux audio only, add something like "[Bulk]" to the subjects and I never use junk filters of the providers, because there are to many false positives. A while back several providers completely banned some Linux mailing lists. Sometimes it's an issue the other way around, then some providers are blackhole listed, so many people can't send to Linux mailing lists. That often was discussed at e.g. Debian user. From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 16:17:46 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 22:02:46 +0545 Subject: [LAU] linuxaudio mailing lists and gmail issues (bounces) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 01/09/14 20:41, Kazakore wrote: > > On 01/09/14 15:24, Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> Some of you might have noticed, we're having issues delivering >> mailing lists posts to gmail users (it can be fairly random). I'm >> also having similar issues at work and on my own server. It seems >> gmail has tightened their filtering rules a bit and generate quite >> the amount of backscatter emails which generally results in mailman >> accounts being disabled. >> >> TL;DR >> mailman issues, gmail sucks, I'm working on a fix :) >> >> Cheers ! > I got kicked off the list a few days ago "Too many bounces" or > similar. I'm on the even more evil and worse Hotmail though! ;-) > > Dale. From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Mon Sep 1 16:18:27 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 22:03:27 +0545 Subject: [LAU] linuxaudio mailing lists and gmail issues (bounces) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 01/09/14 20:41, Kazakore wrote: > > On 01/09/14 15:24, Marc-Olivier Barre wrote: >> Hi everyone, >> >> Some of you might have noticed, we're having issues delivering >> mailing lists posts to gmail users (it can be fairly random). I'm >> also having similar issues at work and on my own server. It seems >> gmail has tightened their filtering rules a bit and generate quite >> the amount of backscatter emails which generally results in mailman >> accounts being disabled. >> >> TL;DR >> mailman issues, gmail sucks, I'm working on a fix :) >> >> Cheers ! > I got kicked off the list a few days ago "Too many bounces" or > similar. I'm on the even more evil and worse Hotmail though! ;-) > > Dale. From hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 16:36:44 2014 From: hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com (Russell Hanaghan) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 09:36:44 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <40F63266-B5A6-4A36-A4A8-8941FB1D4B5D@gmail.com> ~ Russell > On Aug 31, 2014, at 10:42 PM, David Christensen wrote: > > linux-audio-user: > > I've been running a Debian Wheezy DAW (i386, Xfce, realtime kernel, Audacity, Rosegarden, various synthesizers, etc.) for the past week or two. It sort of worked. But, it's clearly not ready for taking on stage for a performance. > > > I checked for backports of more recent DAW titles, but none are available. > > > So, today I rebuilt the machine using Debian Testing (Jessie). > > > I started by downloading the 288 MB "netinst" ISO image. This was followed by 100's of MB of downloads to install the base system, graphical desktop (Xfce), laptop packages, SSH server, and print server. > > > I fed my list of desired general-purpose, kernel, and DAW packages to Apt and it wanted to download another 1+ GB of files (!). I shook my head and lit it off. > > > After several hours of hogging my 1.5 Mbps Internet connection, I noticed that Apt was downloading a 323 MB documentation package. > > > Since when is documentation a *required* package? > > > For that matter, when is 288 MB a "small" installation image? > > > And, there are other issues with Debian (such as cdrkit/ isoinfo). > > > So, it's time for me to look for another Linux distribution. Are there any recommendations for a Linux distribution that: > > 1. Works correctly. > > 2. Is efficient in both space and time. > > 3. Offers a kernel suitable for DAW use at install time. > > 4. Offers current DAW software binary packages. > > 5. Provides simple OOTB *user* and *administrator* experiences -- e.g. minimal technical wrenching around under the hood. > > > TIA, > > David > > > p.s. I read the recent thread on the same topic and researched some of the responses (archive server down at the moment). The apparent favorite, Arch Linux, fails criteria #5 (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pro_Audio). The runner-up, Ubuntu Studio, is 2+ GB and therefore fails criteria #2. The also-ran, Debian, fails #1, 2, and 3. Your frustration is understandable by the many, not the few. However, placed within a little old fashioned perspective, can you pls point to the alternative OS that allows ANY of the options you placed in your bucket list? The closest I think I have come to an 'OOTB' magic distro has been Kxstudio. I will always have a modified copy on at least 1 machine but KDE is a pig on older hardware. I go poking around the dark corners of the interpipes every so often searching for the 'perfect' new distro. Been looking for non Debian type stuff. Arch and gentoo seem to be the next tier to Jedi warrior-ness o Linux audio. They are both a 'pain' (man have we become spoiled with installers n such!!) compared to say a Ubuntu install! I have been messing with Manjaro (arch derivative) a little. Takes a little of the need for "geek" sauce from the install and seems pretty tailorable. Comes in a few flavors - w/ MATE, Xfce, openbox, KDE, etc. getting used to non - apt package management, etc. Should you find the 'magic' distro in question, pls do share. In the end, like most(?), perhaps you will find the 'magic' you desire was at your fingertips all along but does require some work! P.S. I think I have some pictures tht are 288mb! :) while Internet access has not kept pace with the modern advance of tech, generally speaking, that is indeed small compared to most images? R > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 17:18:21 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:18:21 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> Message-ID: <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> On 09/01/2014 02:09 AM, Alexandre DENIS wrote: > Documentation is not *required*, it is suggested or recommended. Put > the following two lines in your /etc/apt/apt.conf > APT::Install-Suggests "0"; > APT::Install-Recommends "0"; I shouldn't have to do that -- the people who package and contribute to Debian need to pay more attention to space efficiency. David From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 17:23:59 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:23:59 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> On 09/01/2014 02:42 AM, Raffaele Morelli wrote: > Your complaints are quite presumptuous. > Of course 288Mb is a small installation image, compared to the standard > 4.5GB dvd and 700Mb cd iso images. No, my complaint is valid. The "netinst" image is only supposed to load enough code to bootstrap a system that can connect to the network and download the installer. It should fit on a cheap USB flash drive. > A complete (suits for a DAW) linux distro installation requires ~5-7Gb, no > matter which one you choose. My Wheezy system was ~12 GB. > You fail on the base criteria: you do not know "enough" about linux and > asking for a ready-to-go distro (corollary 6. learn to use google) Then please use your delete key. I'll use mine when I see your name. David From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 17:39:00 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:39:00 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404593D.5020801@autostatic.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404593D.5020801@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <5404AF34.20200@holgerdanske.com> On 09/01/2014 04:32 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > If you want a minimal install you shouldn't select any additional > packages during installation. Those will pull in all recommended > packages like mentioned before. I don't have a problem with the packages pulled in by tasksel. > Try AV Linux ... I'll take a look. David From brummer- at web.de Mon Sep 1 17:42:33 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 19:42:33 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5404B009.4040804@web.de> Am 01.09.2014 19:18, schrieb David Christensen: > On 09/01/2014 02:09 AM, Alexandre DENIS wrote: >> Documentation is not *required*, it is suggested or recommended. Put >> the following two lines in your /etc/apt/apt.conf >> APT::Install-Suggests "0"; >> APT::Install-Recommends "0"; > > I shouldn't have to do that -- the people who package and contribute > to Debian need to pay more attention to space efficiency. > > > David > > People spend a lot of time to write documentations, to enable users to understand there system and installed software, even without internet access after installation. If you don't need the docs, because you know what you wont do, you have to disable them. That is, the right way, not the other way round. From malnourite at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 17:44:32 2014 From: malnourite at gmail.com (J. Liles) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 10:44:32 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Harry van Haaren wrote: > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 8:32 PM, Philipp ?berbacher > wrote: > > Thanks a lot for your reply Harry. > Cheers, be careful to not remove the list from replies: its good to > keep everything in the archives for future reference :) > > >> That's the correct way to handle this, as far as I know. Its useful to > >> have different directories on one system: it allows subdiving your > >> available sessions into groups like "albums" or > >> "projects-with-certain-people". Although I agree it feels a little > >> clunky, its quite powerful and useful. > > > > There could also be a subdivision in the NSM GUI. Well, the current way > > is certainly the simpler implementation, not sure it's simpler for the > > users :) > > Sure, and my original suggestion was a "stepping-stone" type idea, > with hopes to improve the workflow furthur, once this has become the > "biggest" issue NSM has :D > One can also just create a symlink of ~/NSM Sessions to something else. That doesn't seem any more difficult to me than editing a configuration file. It would probably be nice do have this be configurable in the GUI, though, for non-cli types. However, keep in mind that the NSM GUI and daemon don't necessarily have to run on the same host, so things like this are always more complicated than they seem on the surface. So again, it seems that the existing methods are simpler. > >> > 2. Adding programs to sessions through the GUI ("Add Client to > >> > Session") is the only way? Is there no way to attach running clients > >> > or at least have some comfort like tab completion to add clients? > >> NSM does not support this "attach" workflow, but tab completion or a > >> list of available (fully supported) NSM clients would be a good > >> improvement on workflow. This should be discussed as to how best > >> implement it: i'm not sure. > > > > Right, a list of supported Clients would also be nice, however, I see > > two problems: > > 1. The list would need to be updated somehow, and even then it would be > > a bit problematic because different distributions ship different > > versions of the software. NSM might already list a program as supported > > while the installed version of the program does not yet support NSM. > > 2. The other programs, audio or just related, should ideally also be > > listed, and that task is impossible. > > Actually this might be possible to solve with a "packaging" trick as > such: have programs install a file into a specific location (that is > currently *not* used by any program) to denote its NSM support. I'll > suggest installing a file in /usr/share/nsm/ , and if there's a file > there, then the filename without extension represents that a program > is capable of NSM. This would require *all* NSM clients to explicitly > add an NSM file. > > Perhaps other developers more involved in packaging / > "feature-announcing" will have a better idea here, I'm all ears, my > suggestion above is just that: a suggestion. > > This is something that would go into the .desktop files of applications as a capability. Unfortunately, it's a chicken and egg situation where there's no point in scanning .desktop files for NSM capability until applications provide it, and there's no point in applications providing it until other programs do something with the information. On top of that, scanning all the .desktop files on a system will take some time at startup. > >> > 3. Jack and NSM. How do you handle that? It is possible to start > >> > jack through NSM proxy and I guess it is OK to do that as long as > >> > jack reliably starts before jackpatch (something I'm not sure of). > >> > First I had just jackpatch in there and it started jack for me with > >> > a whole lot of options that are unfamiliar to me and probably not > >> > needed. > >> > >> I imagine that NSM will launch said JACK apps, and if one is set to > >> "start JACK" on jack_client_open() in its code, then it will start > >> JACK with the settings in ~/.jackdrc Perhaps the inclusion of a > >> "Start JACK" type client with particular settings can be implemented > >> in order to handle this? I'm open for suggestions too. > > > > That seems to be what happens, and its a race. In my experience > > jackpatch wins the race against jackd, so I have to start jack before > > the session. > > A start_jack client could be useful, but from what I have seen all we > > really need is the possibility to start a client before the others. > > The simple way would be a timeout, but you'd still have the > > race. Ideally there would be some way to tell NSM that jack has > > started and is ready. I have doubts that this is possible with plain > > jack1 and NSM proxy, maybe a special start_jack client could help here. > > NSM doesn't *explicitly* require JACK to be running actually: its > probably its most common use right now, but setting an explicit > dependency on JACK should be avoided. Perhaps a flag could be > introduce on a per-client basis, that represents > "start-before-others". This way, a "jackd" or "start-jack" client can > be loaded before the rest. Or even two or more "before-others" clients > could set up whatever needs setting up, before "normal-time" NSM > clients are loaded. > > Again, welcome input from users / devs. > The existing JACK autostart mechanism works fine as far as I know (although I don't use it personally), I don't see any need for additional support. Certainly I have no intention of adding any qjackctl like configuration features. Just create a ~/.jackdrc and you're done. > > >> > 4. CLI clients. Are they generally not supported? I added the lv2 > >> > host that was recommended to me (jalv) and had to do that through > >> > the NSM proxy, so the settings won't be saved even though the > >> > plugin (fabla in this case) can save its settings. This sort of > >> > defeats session management. With all the CLI tools we have it would > >> > be a pitty if that was generally not supported. On a sidenote, can > >> > someone recommend a plugin host that is supported? > >> > >> CLI clients are supported just like clients with a GUI, there is no > >> difference to NSM. The issue you're encountering here is that JALV > >> currently doesn't support NSM, which is something that I agree needs > >> fixing. I'll put JALV NSM support on the TODO, its something I've > >> lacked myself too. > > > > Ok, great. Does a CLI NSM client exist that I can try? > > None that I know of right now: Indeed JALV needs NSM, and jalv (the > command line version) will then be such a client. > > > I also noticed that JALV keeps hanging around > > after I close the session it is part of, is that expected behavior? > > This can be fixed by sending the "SIGTERM" in the lower part of the > "nsm-proxy" configuration dialog (where you fill in "jalv.gtk", and > the arguments to load a certain plugin). > > >> > Well, that's it for now. Last time I heard about NSM I got the > >> > impression that it takes care of session management once and for > >> > all, but the first half our gave me a different impression. > >> OpenAV stands behind NSM: I'm willing to do my best to cooperate with > >> project developers to implement NSM in various programs, and improve > >> the workflow of session management. > >> > >> If there's any furthur questions, please ask, in the mean time, I'll > >> try code up some NSM :) -Harry > > > > Thanks a lot for your help Harry, we have used crutches for session > > management long enough. > > Agreed, lets try fix this together with the communit in the next > weeks, and never look back ;) > Cheers, -Harry > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 17:44:56 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:44:56 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5404B098.2030404@holgerdanske.com> On 09/01/2014 10:23 AM, David Christensen wrote: > No, my complaint is valid. The "netinst" image is only supposed to load > enough code to bootstrap a system that can connect to the network and > download the installer. It should fit on a cheap USB flash drive. Damn Small Linux fits into 50 MB, and it's a complete desktop system not just an installer: http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ David From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Mon Sep 1 18:07:18 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 19:07:18 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404B098.2030404@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> <5404B098.2030404@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <20140901190718.67523fa7@debian> On Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:44:56 -0700 David Christensen wrote: > On 09/01/2014 10:23 AM, David Christensen wrote: > > No, my complaint is valid. The "netinst" image is only supposed to load > > enough code to bootstrap a system that can connect to the network and > > download the installer. It should fit on a cheap USB flash drive. > > Damn Small Linux fits into 50 MB, and it's a complete desktop system not > just an installer: > > http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ > > > David If DSL suites your needs, then use it! However, I think you may have a lot of work to do if you want to make a DAW out of it. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Mon Sep 1 18:08:25 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 19:08:25 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Noo 'pooter :) In-Reply-To: <20140829181904.21ec77372ba470ff8b24c1f3@gmail.com> References: <20140826212439.352361f6@debian> <20140829181904.21ec77372ba470ff8b24c1f3@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140901190825.759da36a@debian> On Fri, 29 Aug 2014 18:19:04 -0300 Federico Galland wrote: > > As this will be a clean install, I'm wondering what people might suggest as > > for best distro to make full use of it - all my other machines have had a > > progression of debian upgrades so are probably full of crud. > > I've used arch linux on my laptop for 5 years, and while I loved it as a general purpose OS, the AUR was just more problematic with audio software than building on my own. > In the end, I dumped it in favor of debian (a 6 years old install, still on its feet) because of the convenience of the kxstudio repos. I just feared having to update my system, and didn't really like to fill my bandwidth with large updates. > > If I were you I'd stick with debian. > > Of course there is the downside of packages being compiled without optimizations, and you do miss the PKGBUILD system, which is the best I've seen on linux land. > > Cheers. Thanks everyone for you comments. I'm inclined to give Arch a try, if it doesn't work I'll fall back to debian. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From brummer- at web.de Mon Sep 1 18:08:59 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 20:08:59 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404B098.2030404@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> <5404B098.2030404@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5404B63B.1040804@web.de> Am 01.09.2014 19:44, schrieb David Christensen: > On 09/01/2014 10:23 AM, David Christensen wrote: >> No, my complaint is valid. The "netinst" image is only supposed to load >> enough code to bootstrap a system that can connect to the network and >> download the installer. It should fit on a cheap USB flash drive. > > Damn Small Linux fits into 50 MB, and it's a complete desktop system > not just an installer: > > http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ > > > David > > So what? a debian mini iso takes 23 MB. http://ftp.nl.debian.org/debian/dists/wheezy/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Sep 1 18:18:11 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 11:18:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <1409564478.1307.8.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <1409564478.1307.8.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 2014-08-31 at 22:42 -0700, David Christensen wrote: >> So, it's time for me to look for another Linux distribution. Are there >> any recommendations for a Linux distribution that: > >> The runner-up, Ubuntu Studio, is 2+ GB and therefore fails criteria #2. > > Yesno. It's not a clean audio distro. After installing it, you could > remove all the packages that aren't related to audio or perhaps somebody > could explain you how to make a *buntu expert install with installing > just the Ubuntu Studio audio meta-packages. > > It's simply impossible to provide an OOTB distro + community for 1000 > and more different needs. As of the latest LTS, the install includes a step where the user can choose not to install all the available sw from the ISO. In this case you would not install the video, graphics, photgraphy and publishing sections. Then in the audio section you can choose not to install a lot of the applications as well. Ubuntu Studio is based on xubuntu, so looking at the size of Xubuntu will give you an idea of the minimum size (their iso is now above CD size as well BTW) Please note that the size of the ISO and the install size are very different. A 2g ISO will take 6 to 8 gig of hard drive space. Also this size changes with the size of the partition. It seems there is space set aside that is a percentage of the total partition size or that there are two sizes one for samll partitions and one for large. All I know is that the disk space used from df differs from a 20g partition to a 40+g partition. This true for a net install as well as I recall (I don't remember everything right all the time so check). -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Sep 1 18:26:53 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 20:26:53 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <1409596013.29067.7.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-01 at 10:18 -0700, David Christensen wrote: > On 09/01/2014 02:09 AM, Alexandre DENIS wrote: > > Documentation is not *required*, it is suggested or recommended. Put > > the following two lines in your /etc/apt/apt.conf > > APT::Install-Suggests "0"; > > APT::Install-Recommends "0"; > > I shouldn't have to do that -- the people who package and contribute to > Debian need to pay more attention to space efficiency. Many people using Linux want docs, because they provide useful information to customize the OS or how to use software and many people don't care about a few bytes more. To me it seems a reasonable compromise. From bob at mellowood.ca Mon Sep 1 18:29:54 2014 From: bob at mellowood.ca (Bob van der Poel) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 11:29:54 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Timidity on external USB In-Reply-To: <54042BA4.7050207@ladisch.de> References: <54042BA4.7050207@ladisch.de> Message-ID: Not sure exactly what you mean by "configure" ... But, in the pulse volume volume control app I have 2 output devices: "Built-in audio ..." which I have muted and "PCM2902..." which is the USB device. I've clicked on the "set as fallback" button, but that really doesn't seem to do anything. Now if I do "aplay -l" I get 2 cards. Card 0 is the builtin; card 2 is the USB. If I simply do an "aplay file.wav" the file plays to the external device (I'm assuming that hitting might have something to do with this). So, figuring all is well ... timidity mymid.mid ... it plays, but no audio. timidity -Os ... same as above timidity -Od ... error "/dev/dsp: No such device. Couldn't open dsp device ('d'). It's all crazy since the timidity manual states that -Od is the default ... yet specifying doesn't work. Just checked /etc/timidity/timidity.cfg and it appears that everything there, other than sourcing some soundfonts, is out-commented. What is really frustrating is that I know it worked before on this computer, and I remember having a time getting it to work, and I don't recall what I did :) On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Clemens Ladisch wrote: > Bob van der Poel wrote: > > I can't get timidity to play on my laptop to an external USB device. > > How did you try to configure it? > > > Regards, > Clemens > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -- **** Listen to my FREE CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob at mellowood.ca WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Sep 1 18:44:59 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 20:44:59 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <1409597099.31748.0.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-01 at 10:23 -0700, David Christensen wrote: > It should fit on a cheap USB flash drive. http://lifehacker.com/5069054/battle-of-the-thumb-drive-linux-systems But the problem is, that you want a tailor-made audio distro and a tailor-made thumb drive distro in one. If enough people have the same needs, then there might be one available. Btw. Puppy Linux comes with JWM, the WM I'm using and it sometimes cause issues when using QjackCtl, but JWM anyway seems to be one of the smallest and best WMs. From bob at mellowood.ca Mon Sep 1 18:54:36 2014 From: bob at mellowood.ca (Bob van der Poel) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 11:54:36 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Timidity on external USB In-Reply-To: References: <54042BA4.7050207@ladisch.de> Message-ID: Just to follow up on this: - I have removed the timidity daemon - I have tried to play as root. Nope. - I have installed alsa-oss. No difference - I have run the alsamixer program. The usb device is NOT muted (if it was the wav file wouldn't sound either). Running out of options! On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Bob van der Poel wrote: > Not sure exactly what you mean by "configure" ... > > But, in the pulse volume volume control app I have 2 output devices: > "Built-in audio ..." which I have muted and "PCM2902..." which is the USB > device. I've clicked on the "set as fallback" button, but that really > doesn't seem to do anything. > > Now if I do "aplay -l" I get 2 cards. Card 0 is the builtin; card 2 is the > USB. > > If I simply do an "aplay file.wav" the file plays to the external device > (I'm assuming that hitting might have something to do with > this). So, figuring all is well ... > > timidity mymid.mid ... it plays, but no audio. > > timidity -Os ... same as above > > timidity -Od ... error "/dev/dsp: No such device. Couldn't open dsp device > ('d'). > > It's all crazy since the timidity manual states that -Od is the default > ... yet specifying doesn't work. > > Just checked /etc/timidity/timidity.cfg and it appears that everything > there, other than sourcing some soundfonts, is out-commented. > > What is really frustrating is that I know it worked before on this > computer, and I remember having a time getting it to work, and I don't > recall what I did :) > > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Clemens Ladisch > wrote: > >> Bob van der Poel wrote: >> > I can't get timidity to play on my laptop to an external USB device. >> >> How did you try to configure it? >> >> >> Regards, >> Clemens >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux-audio-user mailing list >> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org >> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user >> > > > > -- > **** Listen to my FREE CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** > Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** > EMAIL: bob at mellowood.ca > WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca > -- **** Listen to my FREE CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob at mellowood.ca WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 18:56:45 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:56:45 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <20140901150035.759e3eda.sergiu.mihai@devlibre.net> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901150035.759e3eda.sergiu.mihai@devlibre.net> Message-ID: <5404C16D.2030906@holgerdanske.com> On 09/01/2014 06:00 AM, Serghei Mihai wrote: > Actually more light netinst image (without basic packages), writable on a usb > device, is available in all repositories, for example here: > http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/dists/stable/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/ > It's "mini.iso". That's for Wheezy. Looking for Jessie: https://www.debian.org/ -> available versions of Debian https://www.debian.org/releases/ -> testing https://www.debian.org/releases/testing/ -> the Debian-Installer page https://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/ I see netinst images, but no mini.iso images. STFW "site:debian.org testing mini.iso" http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/testing/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso 23 MB -- much better. Thanks! David p.s. The netboot image does not appear to contain the packages required for Rescue mode. The netinst image does. That's (part of?) the 288 - 23 = 265 MB difference. From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 19:04:32 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 12:04:32 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <40F63266-B5A6-4A36-A4A8-8941FB1D4B5D@gmail.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <40F63266-B5A6-4A36-A4A8-8941FB1D4B5D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5404C340.2090108@holgerdanske.com> On 09/01/2014 09:36 AM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: > Your frustration is understandable by the many, not the few. However, placed within a little old fashioned perspective, can you pls point to the alternative OS that allows ANY of the options you placed in your bucket list? OS X seems to be at the top in terms of usability. (But it's freedom score is the opposite.) > The closest I think I have come to an 'OOTB' magic distro has been Kxstudio. I'll check it out. David From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Sep 1 19:17:44 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, David Christensen wrote: > On 09/01/2014 02:42 AM, Raffaele Morelli wrote: >> Your complaints are quite presumptuous. >> Of course 288Mb is a small installation image, compared to the standard >> 4.5GB dvd and 700Mb cd iso images. > > No, my complaint is valid. The "netinst" image is only supposed to load > enough code to bootstrap a system that can connect to the network and > download the installer. It should fit on a cheap USB flash drive. Cheap USB stick = 4G, it is hard to find a 1G USB stick. Even 32G sticks are not real expensive, though the difference between 16G and 32G in price is more than it should be. A 2G live ISO will run from 2G. On a 4G stick it can use the rest of the space to save data... no install required. I think that your use has not been well defined. Most peoples first thought is going to be that 160G drive is about the smallest that can be bought, so what is the problem. I am thinking that maybe you want to run off of a USB stick? I would suggest that there is not any distro around at all that is designed as a stage instrument to be run that way. I do feel that what you want is valid and I like the idea. However, I think that no matter which OS you choose (linux, OSx, win), aside from the size of it, you will also be looking at carefully choosing the HW and then tuning it to your use. I personnaly would not think of using a laptop for this use, I would choose a rackmount case so I could choose the MB, processor (as seen in recent post an i5 is not an i5, it matters which one), memory and cooling (no fans if possible... ie a laptop has fans like it or not). I do not know if I would choose to run from a USB stick if this is my stage setup, there are much faster SATA based solid state solutions. Yes they cost more, but what is your stage presence and reliability worth? What does a stage synth cost? An amp? Just a synth stand? I am cheap by nature, but I am willing to spend money for stage stuff even though it is not an income stream for me. It is just a matter of doing things right. This does not mean most expensive, The amp I bought to replace the old (full of dry caps and bad pots etc.) one was the cheaper of the two I looked at... But I am a bass player and I liked the sound of the 10inch speaker over the 15inch. I am also looking for a fretless bass to replace my squire beater that I pulled the frets out of to play with, but no one in town has fretless instruments and I will not buy without trying. So one of my trips to the lower mainland will include that. Having said all of that, I still really don't know what your particular situation is. You may have limits I don't and I can respect that. While I do help with UbuntuStudio, I would suggest it is not what you need. I think you need a custom solution and that you will need to do some learning and setup work to make it happen. I suppose it may be possible to buy a Mac and go, but you would not be running from a USB stick still. (I think I could put together a rack mount from new parts for less anyway) I also think that if you clearly define what you are trying to do with all the paramerters, you would find people much more helpful than if they are assuming that the HW you have is within a certain range. The answers I have seen so far have been answers to solid questions you have asked. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From tito.01beta at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 19:24:11 2014 From: tito.01beta at gmail.com (Tito Latini) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 21:24:11 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Timidity on external USB In-Reply-To: References: <54042BA4.7050207@ladisch.de> Message-ID: <20140901192411.GA1697@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> On Mon, Sep 01, 2014 at 11:54:36AM -0700, Bob van der Poel wrote: > Just to follow up on this: > > - I have removed the timidity daemon > - I have tried to play as root. Nope. > - I have installed alsa-oss. No difference > - I have run the alsamixer program. The usb device is NOT muted (if it was > the wav file wouldn't sound either). > > Running out of options! another option for you: timidity -Od -o /dev/dsp2 ityti.mid From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 19:30:18 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 12:30:18 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404B009.4040804@web.de> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <5404B009.4040804@web.de> Message-ID: <5404C94A.6040104@holgerdanske.com> On 09/01/2014 10:42 AM, hermann meyer wrote: > If you don't need the docs, because you know what you wont do, you have > to disable them. > That is, the right way, not the other way round. With respect to the "principle of least surprise" and package managers, it is my expectation that package managers should only download what I tell them to; nothing else. If a package has prerequisites, the package manager should inform me and stop. Better package managers allow me to delay and/or delegate all or part of the decision making. Other people agree that small is better: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein -> Misattributed http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/E._F._Schumacher Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius?and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. Large is wasteful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins Gluttony David From hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 19:31:01 2014 From: hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com (Russell Hanaghan) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:31:01 -0700 Subject: [LAU] How far we've come! Message-ID: One of the other posts got me thinking a bit, re: all things linux audio. There are some folks here that kicked over the very first stones. The practicalities and useful application of current day (perhaps taken somewhat for granted) apps (Jack, Ardour , LADSPA... Muse and Rosegarden ... PD, timidity... Et al, were there in some form when I started in 2000, digging in the fields of realtime kernels and lower latencies (kernels 2.4 - 2.6 I think).. Trying to put old laptops and boxes that couldn't run XP to useful tasks...etc. I don't necessarily have a point to make other than to perhaps see some of where we've been, to further appreciate where Linux Audio is today! Um, we thought man would be on Mars and further when I was a boy. :) we may could have been! Money required to sustain such development is relevant! Developers o any kind can hardly afford no pay... They too have bills to pay, educations, sustenance and roof over thine heads! Many have come and gone! Some figured how to walk the crevasse of 'free' vs respective remuneration and their development efforts are rewarded with supplemental funds. I don't think any serious linux audio folk have gotten rich from Linux Audio have they? I would simply like to acknowledge the general core of devs. Without you, we'd all having nothing linux audio to bitch about!! :) I don't care to mention names. They know who they are. I met a few along the way. At San Francisco City Hall of all places!! 1 of which I still see here, 1 I do not. I personally rely heavily upon Linux and Linux audio these days. It's cost me extreme little in $$ stacked next to proprietary OS. It's powered several semi pro studio platforms, been used at various gigs over the years to record, perform, etc. A toast! :) to those who persist! Cheers! ~ Russell From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Sep 1 19:31:36 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Timidity on external USB In-Reply-To: References: <54042BA4.7050207@ladisch.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, Bob van der Poel wrote: > Not sure exactly what you mean by "configure" ... > > But, in the pulse volume volume control app I have 2 output devices: > "Built-in audio ..." which I have muted and "PCM2902..." which is the USB If you are not using internal audio, it may be best to disable it in bios... though I have heard that it is harder to get alsa to load with no internal audio. Also, in pulse, the configure tab will let you turn a sound card off, not just muted. However, does timidity use pulse? Do you see it show up in the pulse playback tab? If so then turning the default device off in pulse should fix it. This is just general audio, I don't know timidity at all and generally unistall it as it gets in the way of other stuff I do. I normally use qsynth through jack. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From brummer- at web.de Mon Sep 1 19:47:41 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (Hermann Meyer) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 21:47:41 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404C94A.6040104@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <5404B009.4040804@web.de> <5404C94A.6040104@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <0bc02e70-975d-4a15-ab51-525bf66f127c@email.android.com> Apt do that, just you need to read the output before answer yes. -- Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit WEB.DE Mail gesendet. David Christensen schrieb: On 09/01/2014 10:42 AM, hermann meyer wrote: > If you don't need the docs, because you know what you wont do, you have > to disable them. > That is, the right way, not the other way round. With respect to the "principle of least surprise" and package managers, it is my expectation that package managers should only download what I tell them to; nothing else. If a package has prerequisites, the package manager should inform me and stop. Better package managers allow me to delay and/or delegate all or part of the decision making. Other people agree that small is better: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein -> Misattributed http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/E._F._Schumacher Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius?and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. Large is wasteful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins Gluttony David _____________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Sep 1 19:52:55 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:52:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404C94A.6040104@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <5404B009.4040804@web.de> <5404C94A.6040104@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, David Christensen wrote: > Other people agree that small is better: > > http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein > > -> Misattributed > > http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/E._F._Schumacher > > Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more > violent. It takes a touch of genius?and a lot of courage to move in > the opposite direction. Ok, so why do you expect some one to do this? Most of us are not genius. I do not think anyone is saying bigger is better, but how much responsability are you taking for your own need? How much learning have you put into your needs? How much study and learning did the original author of the above quote put into his life that he was able to make this connection? How much time and energy are you asking soomeone else to put into something that fits you exactly? With OSx, you pay someone to do that, with Linux, the download is the only cost, but you may need to do some setup. PCs are not made for low latency audio out of the box. Mac computers are supposed to be, it is at least a consideration in the design. With a PC the builder needs to choose what goes in their PC and how they connect things and what sw they use and how it fits together carefully if they wish to get similar results... nothing is free, you must choose if you will pay in money or time, I guess. The more optimization, the more time required. Most of us are looking for low latency performance first... and often never get to size of install. We only have so much time. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 20:12:53 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 13:12:53 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5404D345.2050805@holgerdanske.com> linux-audio-user: Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. :-) Here's the updated wish-list for a DAW Linux distribution: 1. Works correctly. 2. Is efficient in both space and time. 3. Offers a kernel suitable for DAW use at install time. 4. Offers current DAW software binary packages. 5. Provides simple OOTB *user* and *administrator* experiences -- e.g. minimal technical wrenching around under the hood. 6. Provides small (<32 MB) bootable USB and/or CD installer images. 7. Provides a package manager that only downloads what the user requests or approves. 8. Provides an optional package caching proxy server (for networks of machines that share an Internet connection). Notes: a. Music is my hobby. I plan to use the DAW for home/ amateur projects and/or performances. b. The laptop is a Dell Inspiron E1505 with an Intel Core Duo T2250 @ 1.73 GHz, 1 GB RAM, and Intel 520 series 180 GB SSD. I understand that this machine is obsolete and will have limited capabilities. I am primarily evaluating the Linux distribution and the software it contains. I have more powerful hardware available if/ when needed. I will post updates as I work to find a solution. David From clemens at ladisch.de Mon Sep 1 20:18:44 2014 From: clemens at ladisch.de (Clemens Ladisch) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 22:18:44 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Timidity on external USB In-Reply-To: References: <54042BA4.7050207@ladisch.de> Message-ID: <5404D4A4.6090101@ladisch.de> Bob van der Poel wrote: > If I simply do an "aplay file.wav" the file plays to the external device > > timidity mymid.mid ... it plays, but no audio. > timidity -Os ... same as above In theory, this should work (because it should play to the same "default" device as aplay). The device name is read from the TIMIDITY_PCM_NAME environment variable. Try "TIMIDITY_PCM_NAME=default timidity mymid.mid ..." or "TIMIDITY_PCM_NAME=plughw:2 timidity mymid.mid ...". Does creating a .wav file with Timidity actually work? Regards, Clemens From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Sep 1 20:57:23 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 13:57:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: References: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, Moshe Werner wrote: > > I like your Idea! That would be the ideal modular platform. > But if we're going the ethernet route why not Ravenna? It's open Ravenna has not been used by a number of people/manufacturers because the latency is too high. It is less than 10ms, compare this with madi, or dante. The idea is to at least match what audio users can get from USB (5-6 ms round trip at 48k) but hopefully come closer to internal or FW. Ravenna is built for just throwing against a building's LAN and includes the needed overhead and latency to do so. We want better. MADI or ADAT add very little in the transport phase of their delivery, we want the same because we still have codec time and DSP time. It is not good enough to spend time developing something that is good enough for recording, but it also needs to be good enough for live performance and other exotic (to us now) needs. So what I am suggesting is to steal the ethernet IF and use it in much the same way as MADI, but effectively take the unused channels and send network traffic with it. MADI is based on 100meg network, but it is easy to get 1000Meg or better any more. So my idea is that: - in time with the word clock a stream of data is sent over the ethernet. - it is less than the length of one word clock pulse - The data includes: x channels of audio formatted as consecutive AES3 (like MADI) An end of audio tag a data tag that tells how much data is within the frame regular data packets perhaps encapsulated in some form. - both ends look to the OS like both an audio device and an ethernet port - One end is responsible for breaking network data packets apart - the other end puts them back together. Problems: - ethernet hardware, it is all different. - some hardware includes it's own CPU/DSP to off load the host. - kernel hacking is beyond my comfort zone - linux ethernet is really stable, mess with it? This may mean moving the sw up a level, but still doing the same thing. The only way to get good solid low latency over ethernet is to take over network data transport or have exclusive use of the ethernet port in question. Taking over the NIC is to be prefered (IMO) because it would allow such an audio interface to be used with any computer even a laptop with only one ethernet port. (wlan may not be usable) exclusive use of the nic will allow more channels total and be easier to do :) In fact this may be a better first attempt or development step... but only if the goal above is kept in mind. that is network data within the the stream should not be precluded by this step. Comments on low latency: low latency means different things to different people, it ranges from sub-ms to about 50ms. Machine control is all sub-ms (by quite a lot) Madi can be sub-ms RT (return trip) asterisk expects to talk to it's PCI(e) cards for audio info once per ms FOH snake use seems to require ~3ms RT Recording with some SW monitoring seems to work up to about 10ms RT as does live swsynth/effects use. (some people will dissagree) Recording with analog monitoring except for already recorded tracks can work at 20ms or higher. There is no RT in this case. skype uses 20-30ms latency. A radio console (like idjc for example) seems to work ok at 10-20ms even with skype as an online phone tool. mp3 streaming is not low latency being 200 or more ms one way. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From bob at mellowood.ca Mon Sep 1 21:00:44 2014 From: bob at mellowood.ca (Bob van der Poel) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:00:44 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Timidity on external USB In-Reply-To: <20140901192411.GA1697@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> References: <54042BA4.7050207@ladisch.de> <20140901192411.GA1697@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 12:24 PM, Tito Latini wrote: > > another option for you: > > timidity -Od -o /dev/dsp2 ityti.mid ?that give: /dev/dsp2: No such file or directory Couldn't open dsp device ('d') ? -- **** Listen to my FREE CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob at mellowood.ca WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bob at mellowood.ca Mon Sep 1 21:07:26 2014 From: bob at mellowood.ca (Bob van der Poel) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:07:26 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Timidity on external USB In-Reply-To: <5404D4A4.6090101@ladisch.de> References: <54042BA4.7050207@ladisch.de> <5404D4A4.6090101@ladisch.de> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Clemens Ladisch wrote: > > > The device name is read from the TIMIDITY_PCM_NAME environment variable. > Try "TIMIDITY_PCM_NAME=default timidity mymid.mid ..." or > "TIMIDITY_PCM_NAME=plughw:2 timidity mymid.mid ...". > > > Does creating a .wav file with Timidity actually work? ?Okay. SOLVED! And I'm printing this for future reference!!! While a midi file is being played by timidity: in the Pulse Audio Volume Control (pavucontrol) go to the playback tab, select Show: AllStreams. The timidity app shows as using the internal speaker. Just select the USB device from the menu of devices. Dead simple.... once you know. Thanks all. -- **** Listen to my FREE CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob at mellowood.ca WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Sep 1 21:21:16 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 23:21:16 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404D345.2050805@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> <5404D345.2050805@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <1409606476.31748.4.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-01 at 13:12 -0700, David Christensen wrote: > 7. Provides a package manager that only downloads what the user > requests or approves. You simply don't want to use apt correctly, so IOW you expect a package manager that does what you want it to do, even if you don't use it correctly. I prefer Arch's pacman over apt, but pacman also has to be used correctly. From tito.01beta at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 21:23:45 2014 From: tito.01beta at gmail.com (Tito Latini) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 23:23:45 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Timidity on external USB In-Reply-To: References: <54042BA4.7050207@ladisch.de> <20140901192411.GA1697@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> Message-ID: <20140901212345.GA1662@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> On Mon, Sep 01, 2014 at 02:00:44PM -0700, Bob van der Poel wrote: > > timidity -Od -o /dev/dsp2 ityti.mid > > > > ???that give: > > /dev/dsp2: No such file or directory > Couldn't open dsp device ('d') > ??? It works here but I'm testing it without pulse, no asoundrc and a trivial config for timidity (four lines with trysource). From jeb at ponderworthy.com Mon Sep 1 21:26:50 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 21:26:50 +0000 Subject: [LAU] How far we've come! References: Message-ID: On 09/01/2014 02:31 PM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: I would simply like to acknowledge the general core of devs. Without you, we'd all having nothing linux audio to bitch about!! :) I don't care to mention names. They know who they are. I met a few along the way. At San Francisco City Hall of all places!! 1 of which I still see here, 1 I do not. I personally rely heavily upon Linux and Linux audio these days. It's cost me extreme little in $$ stacked next to proprietary OS. It's powered several semi pro studio platforms, been used at various gigs over the years to record, perform, etc. A toast! :) to those who persist! Cheers! ~ Russell Amen!!! -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeb at ponderworthy.com Mon Sep 1 21:31:18 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E. Brickman) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 16:31:18 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Command-line options for Claudia? Message-ID: I'd like to tell Claudia to load a specific studio and/or room at startup; are command-line options (or OSC/MIDI/other methods) to do this automatically? -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com From falktx at gmail.com Mon Sep 1 21:33:49 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 22:33:49 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Command-line options for Claudia? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5404E63D.3050509@gmail.com> On 09/01/2014 10:31 PM, Jonathan E. Brickman wrote: > I'd like to tell Claudia to load a specific studio and/or room at > startup; are command-line options (or OSC/MIDI/other methods) to do > this automatically? > Claudia uses ladish as the backend, so you can use "ladish_control" to automate things. From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Sep 1 21:36:04 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 14:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: References: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, Len Ovens wrote: > So my idea is that: > - in time with the word clock a stream of data is sent over the ethernet. > - it is less than the length of one word clock pulse > - The data includes: > x channels of audio formatted as consecutive AES3 (like MADI) > An end of audio tag I should add in here any audio related data such as MIDI, transport control, OSC, etc. > a data tag that tells how much data is within the frame > regular data packets perhaps encapsulated in some form. > - both ends look to the OS like both an audio device and an ethernet port > - One end is responsible for breaking network data packets apart > - the other end puts them back together. A while ago, I got my wife an atom based MB with two cores and it happens to have to ethernet IFs on it as well. It works okish. This is the one Intel product that does not have an open grapphics driver. So my wife finds the video she watchs tends to be slow. She uses it for kareoke and to watch content in her native tungue. I originally bought it with the idea it could in future replace my server (two NICs) where display beyond text is not needed. (in fact, I use serial port to an old Ampex terminal) Anyway, it is way beyond most small boards and has linux and x on it as well as an audio IF. This is enough to try to do this with to figure out if the idea can work and what the transport latency is (the internal audio IF latency is not very good... -p64 minimum with -n3). But audio device stuff is down the road anyway. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From murks at tuxfamily.org Mon Sep 1 21:45:59 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 23:45:59 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140901234559.535b0405@eeyore> On Mon, 1 Sep 2014 10:44:32 -0700 "J. Liles" wrote: > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Harry van Haaren > wrote: > > > On Fri, Aug 29, 2014 at 8:32 PM, Philipp ?berbacher > > wrote: > > > Thanks a lot for your reply Harry. > > Cheers, be careful to not remove the list from replies: its good to > > keep everything in the archives for future reference :) > > > > >> That's the correct way to handle this, as far as I know. Its > > >> useful to have different directories on one system: it allows > > >> subdiving your available sessions into groups like "albums" or > > >> "projects-with-certain-people". Although I agree it feels a > > >> little clunky, its quite powerful and useful. > > > > > > There could also be a subdivision in the NSM GUI. Well, the > > > current way is certainly the simpler implementation, not sure > > > it's simpler for the users :) > > > > Sure, and my original suggestion was a "stepping-stone" type idea, > > with hopes to improve the workflow furthur, once this has become the > > "biggest" issue NSM has :D > > > > > One can also just create a symlink of ~/NSM Sessions to something > else. That doesn't seem any more difficult to me than editing a > configuration file. It would probably be nice do have this be > configurable in the GUI, though, for non-cli types. However, keep in > mind that the NSM GUI and daemon don't necessarily have to run on the > same host, so things like this are always more complicated than they > seem on the surface. So again, it seems that the existing methods are > simpler. For me the symlink is not an option since I don't want to have yet another directory hang around in my home directory. Too many programs still do that. I want to have some programs data directories somewhere else, not in with my personal stuff. The GUI could show different sessions, depending on to which nsmd it is connected to. I see how this may complicate things a little, but I don't see a big problem. > > >> > 2. Adding programs to sessions through the GUI ("Add Client to > > >> > Session") is the only way? Is there no way to attach running > > >> > clients or at least have some comfort like tab completion to > > >> > add clients? > > >> NSM does not support this "attach" workflow, but tab completion > > >> or a list of available (fully supported) NSM clients would be a > > >> good improvement on workflow. This should be discussed as to how > > >> best implement it: i'm not sure. > > > > > > Right, a list of supported Clients would also be nice, however, I > > > see two problems: > > > 1. The list would need to be updated somehow, and even then it > > > would be a bit problematic because different distributions ship > > > different versions of the software. NSM might already list a > > > program as supported while the installed version of the program > > > does not yet support NSM. 2. The other programs, audio or just > > > related, should ideally also be listed, and that task is > > > impossible. > > > > Actually this might be possible to solve with a "packaging" trick as > > such: have programs install a file into a specific location (that is > > currently *not* used by any program) to denote its NSM support. I'll > > suggest installing a file in /usr/share/nsm/ , and if there's a file > > there, then the filename without extension represents that a program > > is capable of NSM. This would require *all* NSM clients to > > explicitly add an NSM file. > > > > Perhaps other developers more involved in packaging / > > "feature-announcing" will have a better idea here, I'm all ears, my > > suggestion above is just that: a suggestion. > > > > > This is something that would go into the .desktop files of > applications as a capability. Unfortunately, it's a chicken and egg > situation where there's no point in scanning .desktop files for NSM > capability until applications provide it, and there's no point in > applications providing it until other programs do something with the > information. On top of that, scanning all the .desktop files on a > system will take some time at startup. I like the desktop file idea a bit more, simply because it uses an existing mechanism. I understand that scanning desktop files could increase startup time, but I have no idea how long it would actually take. On my machine I have around 180 files in /usr/share/applications, but maybe another directory would also need to be scanned. In case it takes significant time something like a simple cache could help to speed things up on subsequent runs. I have no idea how long reading those files takes. I don't think that the chicken-egg problem is significant. You could suggest to developers to add a desktop file with the necessary information. I wouldn't require it but strongly suggest it. It is an almost trivial amount of work. > > >> > 3. Jack and NSM. How do you handle that? It is possible to > > >> > start jack through NSM proxy and I guess it is OK to do that > > >> > as long as jack reliably starts before jackpatch (something > > >> > I'm not sure of). First I had just jackpatch in there and it > > >> > started jack for me with a whole lot of options that are > > >> > unfamiliar to me and probably not needed. > > >> > > >> I imagine that NSM will launch said JACK apps, and if one is set > > >> to "start JACK" on jack_client_open() in its code, then it will > > >> start JACK with the settings in ~/.jackdrc Perhaps the > > >> inclusion of a "Start JACK" type client with particular settings > > >> can be implemented in order to handle this? I'm open for > > >> suggestions too. > > > > > > That seems to be what happens, and its a race. In my experience > > > jackpatch wins the race against jackd, so I have to start jack > > > before the session. > > > A start_jack client could be useful, but from what I have seen > > > all we really need is the possibility to start a client before > > > the others. The simple way would be a timeout, but you'd still > > > have the race. Ideally there would be some way to tell NSM that > > > jack has started and is ready. I have doubts that this is > > > possible with plain jack1 and NSM proxy, maybe a special > > > start_jack client could help here. > > > > NSM doesn't *explicitly* require JACK to be running actually: its > > probably its most common use right now, but setting an explicit > > dependency on JACK should be avoided. Perhaps a flag could be > > introduce on a per-client basis, that represents > > "start-before-others". This way, a "jackd" or "start-jack" client > > can be loaded before the rest. Or even two or more "before-others" > > clients could set up whatever needs setting up, before > > "normal-time" NSM clients are loaded. > > > > Again, welcome input from users / devs. > > > > > The existing JACK autostart mechanism works fine as far as I know > (although I don't use it personally), I don't see any need for > additional support. Certainly I have no intention of adding any > qjackctl like configuration features. Just create a ~/.jackdrc and > you're done. Thanks for reminding me of the ~/.jackdrc. However, a simple jackstart client (or a generic mechanism that can be used for this purpose) would allow different sessions to use different jack settings. A simple example: One session may require jack to run at 48 kHz, another at 44.1 kHz, a third might require jack to run at a very low latency setting. ~/.jackdrc does not help in this case. Best regards, Philipp From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Sep 1 22:32:07 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 12:32:07 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404D345.2050805@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> <5404D345.2050805@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5404F3E7.1040500@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/01/2014 10:12 AM, David Christensen wrote: > linux-audio-user: > > > Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions. :-) > > > Here's the updated wish-list for a DAW Linux distribution: > > 1. Works correctly. > > 2. Is efficient in both space and time. > > 3. Offers a kernel suitable for DAW use at install time. > > 4. Offers current DAW software binary packages. > > 5. Provides simple OOTB *user* and *administrator* experiences -- e.g. > minimal technical wrenching around under the hood. > > 6. Provides small (<32 MB) bootable USB and/or CD installer images. Hmm, I once saw an bootable USB/CD installer image that size. It was for OpenDOS, though, not Linux. IIRC, the typical bootable kernel image is larger than 32MB? Sounds to me like you want the luxury and power of a limousine packed into the space of a SmartCar. Good luck with that. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Sep 1 22:34:49 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 12:34:49 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404C340.2090108@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <40F63266-B5A6-4A36-A4A8-8941FB1D4B5D@gmail.com> <5404C340.2090108@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5404F489.3020802@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/01/2014 09:04 AM, David Christensen wrote: > On 09/01/2014 09:36 AM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: >> Your frustration is understandable by the many, not the few. However, >> placed within a little old fashioned perspective, can you pls point to >> the alternative OS that allows ANY of the options you placed in your >> bucket list? > > OS X seems to be at the top in terms of usability. (But it's freedom > score is the opposite.) > > >> The closest I think I have come to an 'OOTB' magic distro has been >> Kxstudio. > > I'll check it out. Check out Musix, too. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Sep 1 22:42:19 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 15:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140901234559.535b0405@eeyore> References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140901234559.535b0405@eeyore> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > I like the desktop file idea a bit more, simply because it uses an > existing mechanism. I understand that scanning desktop files could > increase startup time, but I have no idea how long it would actually > take. On my machine I have around 180 files in /usr/share/applications, > but maybe another directory would also need to be scanned. In case it > takes significant time something like a simple cache could help to > speed things up on subsequent runs. I have no idea how long reading > those files takes. Yes there are other directories to search, but in general they are session specific and should not have application *.desktop files in them. The one other place that may need to be looked in would be: ~/.local/share/applications/ For user added files... though to be honest, I do not think alacart or any user is likely to add anything worth your looking at anyway. A cache file would help for sure. Keeping the m date in there of the directory may be enough to know if anything has changed since the last time. > I don't think that the chicken-egg problem is significant. You could > suggest to developers to add a desktop file with the necessary > information. I wouldn't require it but strongly suggest it. It is an > almost trivial amount of work. One has to start somewhere :) Many developers do not make desktop files for their work, so it ends up getting done by the packager (man pages too by the way). >> The existing JACK autostart mechanism works fine as far as I know No. Jackdbus conflicks with jackd and there seems to be no way for auto starting jackdbus. There are functions that are not possible without jackdbus. So having an appliocation autostart jackd kills jackdbus. I ended up chmod -x jackd. > Thanks for reminding me of the ~/.jackdrc. However, a simple jackstart > client (or a generic mechanism that can be used for this purpose) would > allow different sessions to use different jack settings. A simple > example: One session may require jack to run at 48 kHz, another at 44.1 > kHz, a third might require jack to run at a very low latency setting. > ~/.jackdrc does not help in this case. With jackdbus many of these things can be changed "on the fly". However, that is not the best as some applications don't like getting these things changed while they are running. Latency can be changed at any time with jackd too. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 22:46:38 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 15:46:38 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <1409606476.31748.4.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> <5404D345.2050805@holgerdanske.com> <1409606476.31748.4.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <5404F74E.3080704@holgerdanske.com> On 09/01/2014 02:21 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > You simply don't want to use apt correctly Downloading Recommended packages by default is a bug, not a feature: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=760213 David From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 22:48:08 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 15:48:08 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404F489.3020802@hawaii.rr.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <40F63266-B5A6-4A36-A4A8-8941FB1D4B5D@gmail.com> <5404C340.2090108@holgerdanske.com> <5404F489.3020802@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <5404F7A8.7030505@holgerdanske.com> On 09/01/2014 03:34 PM, david wrote: > Check out Musix, too. OK. David From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Mon Sep 1 23:10:50 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 00:10:50 +0100 Subject: [LAU] yoshimi --alsa-midi autoconnect? In-Reply-To: <53FB32A5.7030005@ladisch.de> References: <20140825124403.2b28b37f@debian> <53FB32A5.7030005@ladisch.de> Message-ID: <20140902001050.5c267d11@debian> On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:57:09 +0200 Clemens Ladisch wrote: > Will Godfrey wrote: > > James Mckernon wrote: > >> yoshimi --alsa-midi="microKONTROL MIDI 1" > >> > >> ALSA lib seq.c:935:(snd_seq_open_noupdate) Unknown SEQ microKONTROL MIDI 1 > > The device name for snd_seq_open() must always be "default". > > This option should change the client/port name. > (There is snd_seq_parse_address() for that.) > > > Regards, > Clemens The master version of Yoshimi can now auto-connect to an ALSA MIDI source :) That snd_seq_parse_address() is good. You only need a unique fraction of the name for it to pick up. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Sep 1 23:16:11 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 01:16:11 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404F74E.3080704@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> <5404D345.2050805@holgerdanske.com> <1409606476.31748.4.camel@rocketmail.com> <5404F74E.3080704@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <1409613371.31748.8.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-01 at 15:46 -0700, David Christensen wrote: > On 09/01/2014 02:21 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > You simply don't want to use apt correctly > > Downloading Recommended packages by default is a bug, not a feature: > > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=760213 "No. Recommends are specifically packages that should be installed by default. We also have Suggests for packages that should not be installed by default, but may be useful." - from the above link ;) Btw. using workarounds until bugs are fixed and editing configs, such as apt.conf isn't unusual for Linux. Once you might install synaptic, without recommended/suggested packages and then you might lament about missing features ;). In the future you should expect to experience real unpleasant things, e.g. hard dependencies that should be optional dependencies, but upstream decided to enforce their worldview, even if it could make your user space unusable or damage your hardware. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Sep 1 23:25:38 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 13:25:38 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <40F63266-B5A6-4A36-A4A8-8941FB1D4B5D@gmail.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <40F63266-B5A6-4A36-A4A8-8941FB1D4B5D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54050072.4050808@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/01/2014 06:36 AM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: > P.S. I think I have some pictures tht are 288mb! :) while Internet access has not kept pace with the modern advance of tech, generally speaking, that is indeed small compared to most images? And I have a panorama image that's 768MB as a compressed TIFF. Also, last time I looked at cheap USB flash drives, the smallest was 1GB. Finally, what bandwidth saved by using a small install image is made up by the downloads needed to add apps to the installation, so it seems to me to just about be a wash either way. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 23:43:46 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 16:43:46 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404197B.9010207@hawaii.rr.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404197B.9010207@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <540504B2.40504@holgerdanske.com> On 09/01/2014 12:00 AM, david wrote: > Musix 3. Don't know how it fits any of your above criteria, but it does > work reasonably. I don't speak Spanish. David From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 23:52:30 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 16:52:30 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404593D.5020801@autostatic.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404593D.5020801@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <540506BE.9020903@holgerdanske.com> On 09/01/2014 04:32 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > AV Linux Too big -- 3.0 GB. http://www.bandshed.net/iso/ David From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Mon Sep 1 23:57:58 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 16:57:58 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <40F63266-B5A6-4A36-A4A8-8941FB1D4B5D@gmail.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <40F63266-B5A6-4A36-A4A8-8941FB1D4B5D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54050806.1010609@holgerdanske.com> On 09/01/2014 09:36 AM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: > The closest I think I have come to an 'OOTB' magic distro has been Kxstudio. Too big -- 1.4 GB http://sourceforge.net/projects/kxstudio/files/Live/KXStudio_14.04b_32bit.iso/download David From david.santamauro at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 00:00:33 2014 From: david.santamauro at gmail.com (David Santamauro) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 20:00:33 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <1409613371.31748.8.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> <5404D345.2050805@holgerdanske.com> <1409606476.31748.4.camel@rocketmail.com> <5404F74E.3080704@holgerdanske.com> <1409613371.31748.8.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <540508A1.2070904@gmail.com> On 9/1/2014 7:16 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > unpleasant things, e.g. hard dependencies that should be optional > dependencies, but upstream decided to enforce their worldview, even if > it could make your user space unusable or damage your hardware. Out of curiosity, what packages damage hardware? From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Sep 2 00:25:40 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 02:25:40 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <540508A1.2070904@gmail.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> <5404D345.2050805@holgerdanske.com> <1409606476.31748.4.camel@rocketmail.com> <5404F74E.3080704@holgerdanske.com> <1409613371.31748.8.camel@rocketmail.com> <540508A1.2070904@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1409617540.31748.13.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-01 at 20:00 -0400, David Santamauro wrote: > > On 9/1/2014 7:16 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > unpleasant things, e.g. hard dependencies that should be optional > > dependencies, but upstream decided to enforce their worldview, even if > > it could make your user space unusable or damage your hardware. > > Out of curiosity, what packages damage hardware? The Linux software I know, that could damage hardware are: External green drives could get damaged by gvfs, because gvfs does cause a spin up after the spin down of the HDD. My WD drive spins down after 30 minutes. If gvfs isn't installed it stays asleep, but if gvfs is installed a spin up is forced without any reason, so the result is that every 30 minutes the HDD does spin down and up. For Thunar gvfs is an optional dependency, while for Nautilus it's a hard dependency, but there's no reason to make it a hard dependency. It's the same or the KDE thingy, what ever it's named. The next one isn't caused by a dependency of a package, but by the package for an unfinished code of a released virtual synth. Phasex could cause DC offsets for some sounds, so your speakers could burn. Fons subscribed to the list noticed and fixed it. The patches are applied to the Arch Linux git package, but it's untested, other distros likely provide the version from upstream without the patches. Such serious issues are no inventions of Linux ;), for the C64 there already were ways to damage the hardware by writing bad code. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Tue Sep 2 01:11:50 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2014 15:11:50 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <540504B2.40504@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404197B.9010207@hawaii.rr.com> <540504B2.40504@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <54051956.8010801@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/01/2014 01:43 PM, David Christensen wrote: > On 09/01/2014 12:00 AM, david wrote: >> Musix 3. Don't know how it fits any of your above criteria, but it does >> work reasonably. > > I don't speak Spanish. Neither do I (actually, ISTR that it's Portuguese), but they have many of their pages in English and the ISO offers English as an option. Carlos Sanchiavedraz on this list is one of the people behind Musix. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Tue Sep 2 02:04:41 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 07:49:41 +0545 Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: References: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: > Madi can be sub-ms RT (return trip) Really? Coax, optical or both? I used MADI routers in my work but that was more about sharing multi-channel audio across sites miles apart than low-latency monitoring... (I also have to sadly admit the MADI system is one of the ones I new the least about by the time I left that job :( ) > > FOH snake use seems to require ~3ms RT Sounds like CobraNet at it's lowest latency setting (1.33ms per direction, plus a little propagation delay.) I assume people have heard and read up on AES67? I admit I haven't beyond skimming it and can't say I'm sure whether it's its own specification or more about getting the various existing solutions to communicate together. Probably worth reading though... http://www.aes.org/publications/standards/search.cfm?docID=96 Dale. From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Sep 2 04:36:20 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 21:36:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: References: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 2014, Kazakore wrote: >> Madi can be sub-ms RT (return trip) > > Really? Coax, optical or both? I used MADI routers in my work but that was > more about sharing multi-channel audio across sites miles apart than > low-latency monitoring... (I also have to sadly admit the MADI system is one > of the ones I new the least about by the time I left that job :( ) It depends on distance, but it has almost no overhead compared to most other formats (besides analog and aes3). It depends on the dsp time used to split it up and route. >> >> FOH snake use seems to require ~3ms RT > Sounds like CobraNet at it's lowest latency setting (1.33ms per direction, > plus a little propagation delay.) reading some of the formums dedicated to FOH kinds of things, it seems that yes less than 10ms is possible, but only with loss of channels and very clean network. It is a 3rd level network application, so it uses standard network SW and shares on an equal basis with other traffic. At most it asks for piority. It is like trying to do lowlatency audio with a generic kernel... shutting X and friends off and making sure nothing else really is running can give reasonable latency with only the odd xrun... > I assume people have heard and read up on AES67? I admit I haven't beyond > skimming it and can't say I'm sure whether it's its own specification or more > about getting the various existing solutions to communicate together. > Probably worth reading though... > > http://www.aes.org/publications/standards/search.cfm?docID=96 I read some of the stuff about it. I do not have an AES account. Nor can I afford to buy a list of documents to find out about aes 50, 51, 53, 46? (one of those) and 67. 67 is for more wide spread content gathering from iphones etc. (If I have the right one, I have been reading too much the last few days) The goal is to replace a local audio IF with something that has performance close to FW. With something that can be used on a laptop... even if it runs OSx. Something that can be used on stage as a guitar effect (funny, what we are talking about might be usable as an effect without a host :) or even a softsynth.... though I think a softsynth might do better with a host computer. I had once thought that making an audio IF with enough power, one could add a drive and just use the host as an X server :) Almost all the remarks I got were prefaced with "On any modern computer...". In some ways I almost think taking some old ice1712 chips and connecting them to a PCIe IF might do more. Name your own favourite chip. The only real problem with MADI is that it is hardware specific... old hardware... same as the ice chips, mostly not available. Then there are laptops. None of them have a space for extra cards anymore (internally most of then have a single channel mini-PCIe, but I don't know how easy it is to use for audio). They have USB. So far USB is just barely usable, I don't know if the next generation of laptop will even have an ethernet port, they don't seem to be considered useful on small personal computing devices. In the long run making a more powerful audio IF that can do more of the audio processing... possibly also running the main application, makes sense. In that case we really want that box to be open. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From anders.vinjar at bek.no Tue Sep 2 08:00:00 2014 From: anders.vinjar at bek.no (anders.vinjar at bek.no) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 10:00:00 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface? References: <20140827143830.GA7320@aol.com> <53FE29BE.7080809@notam02.no> <20140827192354.GD7320@aol.com> <53FE3864.3090503@notam02.no> Message-ID: <87d2be8nb3.fsf@bek.no> >>>>> "H" == Hans Wilmers writes: >>> Both Fireface UCX and UFX can run in class compliant USB2 mode. >>> >>> I tested both briefly a while ago. Worked fine and stable, but I >>> did not test low latency. >> Thanks Hans. How many channels would that mean then? Is there a >> mixer GUI available under Linux? >> H> If I recall correctly, for UCX all the channels are available as H> in: http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_fireface_ucx.php The UFX provides 22 ch. I/O in CC mode. No matrix or hw-mixer. You do get a single 'Speaker' slider in the alsamixer, not sure what it does though. -anders From abonnements at revolwear.com Tue Sep 2 08:10:28 2014 From: abonnements at revolwear.com (Max) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:10:28 +0900 Subject: [LAU] Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface? In-Reply-To: <87d2be8nb3.fsf@bek.no> References: <20140827143830.GA7320@aol.com> <53FE29BE.7080809@notam02.no> <20140827192354.GD7320@aol.com> <53FE3864.3090503@notam02.no> <87d2be8nb3.fsf@bek.no> Message-ID: <54057B74.8090509@revolwear.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 09/02/2014 05:00 PM, anders.vinjar at bek.no wrote: >>>>>> "H" == Hans Wilmers writes: > >>>> Both Fireface UCX and UFX can run in class compliant USB2 >>>> mode. >>>> >>>> I tested both briefly a while ago. Worked fine and stable, >>>> but I did not test low latency. >>> Thanks Hans. How many channels would that mean then? Is there >>> a mixer GUI available under Linux? >>> > > H> If I recall correctly, for UCX all the channels are available > as H> in: http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_fireface_ucx.php > > The UFX provides 22 ch. I/O in CC mode. > > No matrix or hw-mixer. You do get a single 'Speaker' slider in > the alsamixer, not sure what it does though. > > -anders A while ago I did test the latency if the UCX http://www.rme-audio.de/forum/viewtopic.php?id=16176 I can do an update of that list with a low-latency kernel. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlQFe3QACgkQ3EB7kzgMM6LC6ACbBGoEGv9AvJbwcJq5MGvRtswZ zNUAnijQFhZBeUOSVeXomIjWorrmgr0o =4G6A -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From contact at alexandredenis.net Tue Sep 2 08:28:31 2014 From: contact at alexandredenis.net (Alexandre DENIS) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 10:28:31 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <20140902102831.24b21739@pointvirgule.bordeaux.inria.fr> On Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:18:21 -0700 David Christensen wrote: > > On 09/01/2014 02:09 AM, Alexandre DENIS wrote: > > Documentation is not *required*, it is suggested or recommended. Put > > the following two lines in your /etc/apt/apt.conf > > APT::Install-Suggests "0"; > > APT::Install-Recommends "0"; > > I shouldn't have to do that -- the people who package and contribute > to Debian need to pay more attention to space efficiency. Most people want recommended packages to be installed by default, thus it is a reasonable default. If you don't want recommended packages installed by default, well, this option was invented precisely for this purpose. Debian can be very easily tuned to fit your needs. However, it looks like you are looking for a distro that is at the same time widespread, with a large community, and fits your very precise and uncommon needs without tuning. Good luck. -a. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 473 bytes Desc: not available URL: From joelz at pobox.com Tue Sep 2 10:58:45 2014 From: joelz at pobox.com (Joel Roth) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 00:58:45 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54050806.1010609@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <40F63266-B5A6-4A36-A4A8-8941FB1D4B5D@gmail.com> <54050806.1010609@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <20140902105845.GC970@sprite> David Christensen wrote: > On 09/01/2014 09:36 AM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: > >The closest I think I have come to an 'OOTB' magic distro has been Kxstudio. > > Too big -- 1.4 GB Hi, I doubt you'll find a ready-to-go system as small as you want. You'd have to build it up yourself with the exact pieces you require. With disk storage so cheap, it seems like an idealistic and arbitrary condition. Regards, > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/kxstudio/files/Live/KXStudio_14.04b_32bit.iso/download > > > David > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -- Joel Roth From cbannister at slingshot.co.nz Tue Sep 2 12:44:20 2014 From: cbannister at slingshot.co.nz (Chris Bannister) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 00:44:20 +1200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> On Mon, Sep 01, 2014 at 10:18:21AM -0700, David Christensen wrote: > On 09/01/2014 02:09 AM, Alexandre DENIS wrote: > >Documentation is not *required*, it is suggested or recommended. Put > >the following two lines in your /etc/apt/apt.conf > >APT::Install-Suggests "0"; > >APT::Install-Recommends "0"; > > I shouldn't have to do that -- the people who package and contribute to > Debian need to pay more attention to space efficiency. If you feel that a package should be a suggests instead of a recommends then file a bug! Recommends are installed by default, whereas suggests need to be expicitly installed. Of course, whether you need the doumentation for a package is very subjective - at least the maintainers have taken the trouble to package it as a separate package. P.S. Don't kick a gift horse in the mouth. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X From czhenry at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 17:41:56 2014 From: czhenry at gmail.com (Charles Z Henry) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 12:41:56 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > On Sun, 31 Aug 2014, Moshe Werner wrote: > >> On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Len Ovens wrote: >> On Sun, 31 Aug 2014, Moshe Werner wrote: >> This is not the first time for this idea. There are one or two people >> working on >> it. The idea that seems to be the best is an ethernet connected AI because >> this >> seems to be the digital interface that stays around and is best supported. >> The >> idea is to use an arm based board with a netjack master and built in audio >> IF. The >> only project I know of is to at first provide stereo i/o as a proof of >> concept. >> >> >> Interesting, I didn't know this. Can you send a link to it? > > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2011-October/081520.html > is the start I think... Though it may have surfaced since then too. > > It seems to me that at some point the same project came back in either LAU > or LAD but the topic got changed. I love a good design project, and a modular audio interface would be an amazing one. My vision of a real Open Hardware Audio Interface would take a formiddable team of engineers, each with specific specialties to tackle the problem. High-freq circuits, HDL programming, kernel modules, mixed-signal, audio pre-amps, and power supply design... you'd really need someone who's willing to study each one of them. I met with a good group of people at LAC 2012 who are working on AVB support under linux. At the time, this was the group of people that I was primarily considering "the audience" for organizing such a project. After meeting everybody, I realized we were heading in different directions. I (personally) don't want to work on software or sound card protocols--I can barely follow along with AVB. So--I did not follow up on it. I moved on to other projects. I'd love to work on a HW project, but not without considerable support and teamwork to see it through to the end. There is still some value in an Open Hardware design that goes beyond the consumer cost/benefit relationship of the device itself. Whatever you come up with, in terms of design documents, working hardware, software, etc are all stepping stones for new/existing companies to use. You add competition to the marketplace with Open Hardware, lower the barrier to entry, and open up different design goals. There's a lot of potential for economic effects that will end up making audio interfaces better for consumers in the long run. From harryhaaren at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 18:42:16 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 19:42:16 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 6:44 PM, J. Liles wrote: > This is something that would go into the .desktop files of applications as a > capability Cool: then its time to make it work in the UI, and after that bug-report every app that is useful with NSM and doesn't have it in its .desktop. > Certainly I have no intention of adding any qjackctl like configuration features. Which also isn't what I'm suggesting > Just create a ~/.jackdrc and you're done. That doesn't work per session, and mixing / live-performance have a need for very different JACK settings, perhaps even different interfaces. It could be discussed to "highjack" ~/.jackdrc by copying an NSM sessions .jackdrc to ~/ although a hack solution for a power-user, I think its not a good way to go for beginners. We need something to fix this... ideas? -- Cheers, -Harry www.openavproductions.com From czhenry at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 18:55:45 2014 From: czhenry at gmail.com (Charles Z Henry) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 13:55:45 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Charles Z Henry wrote: > I met with a good group of people at LAC 2012 who are working on AVB > support under linux. Correction: it was LAC 2013 From murks at tuxfamily.org Tue Sep 2 20:00:58 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 22:00:58 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 19:42:16 +0100 Harry van Haaren wrote: > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 6:44 PM, J. Liles wrote: > > This is something that would go into the .desktop files of > > applications as a capability > > Cool: then its time to make it work in the UI, and after that > bug-report every app that is useful with NSM and doesn't have it in > its .desktop. Agreed, I think it's doable. It is little work per-program. I think it would be sensible to check how real the performance issue is, but the mtime check Len suggested plus some caching would take care of it most of the time if the performance issue is real at all. > > Certainly I have no intention of adding any qjackctl like > > configuration features. > Which also isn't what I'm suggesting I agree here too. All I imagine is something that is able to start jack before everything else, nothing more than that. On the UI side it could be a simple field where you enter the jackd command you want to use for this session. > > Just create a ~/.jackdrc and you're done. > That doesn't work per session, and mixing / live-performance have a > need for very different JACK settings, perhaps even different > interfaces. > > It could be discussed to "highjack" ~/.jackdrc by copying an NSM > sessions .jackdrc to ~/ although a hack solution for a power-user, > I think its not a good way to go for beginners. We need something to > fix this... ideas? For my taste this solution is far too hackish. I would not expect or want any program to modify my ~/.jackdrc. If jack is already running when the programs start then the ~/.jackdrc is irrelevant. I'm still in favor of a simple jackstart program (generic if possible or especially for jack). The only issue I see with such a program is that it may be hard to tell when jack is actually started. Maybe I'm wrong and there is an easy way to tell that I'm not aware of. Maybe something in the jackd API would help? Would jackctl_server_start() work? http://jackaudio.org/api/group__ControlAPI.html#ga0ee7d8a3386503ce677f1adbd206e971 Regards, Philipp From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Tue Sep 2 20:25:20 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 10:25:20 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> Message-ID: <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/02/2014 02:44 AM, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Mon, Sep 01, 2014 at 10:18:21AM -0700, David Christensen wrote: >> On 09/01/2014 02:09 AM, Alexandre DENIS wrote: >>> Documentation is not *required*, it is suggested or recommended. Put >>> the following two lines in your /etc/apt/apt.conf >>> APT::Install-Suggests "0"; >>> APT::Install-Recommends "0"; >> >> I shouldn't have to do that -- the people who package and contribute to >> Debian need to pay more attention to space efficiency. Maybe bandwidth efficiency. But in this day when pretty much the smallest hard drives available are 500GB (even for cheap laptops) and most commonly 1TB, disk space doesn't seem like much of a worry. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 21:14:20 2014 From: hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com (Russell Hanaghan) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 14:14:20 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: ~ Russell > On Sep 2, 2014, at 1:25 PM, david wrote: > >> On 09/02/2014 02:44 AM, Chris Bannister wrote: >>> On Mon, Sep 01, 2014 at 10:18:21AM -0700, David Christensen wrote: >>>> On 09/01/2014 02:09 AM, Alexandre DENIS wrote: >>>> Documentation is not *required*, it is suggested or recommended. Put >>>> the following two lines in your /etc/apt/apt.conf >>>> APT::Install-Suggests "0"; >>>> APT::Install-Recommends "0"; >>> >>> I shouldn't have to do that -- the people who package and contribute to >>> Debian need to pay more attention to space efficiency. > > Maybe bandwidth efficiency. But in this day when pretty much the smallest hard drives available are 500GB (even for cheap laptops) and most commonly 1TB, disk space doesn't seem like much of a worry. > Just curious? Does this center more on crappy internet access/cost? There are some miserable ISP options available in an amazingly large footprint given the day and age. WiMAX has helped in US but not much. I have always chosen to live in the boonies when possible and have utilized all of them at some point. When I'm in town on a nice CATV net connection that drops a 2.5g ISO on my drive in minutes, I don't care what's in the package so long as relevant to the system. R > -- > David W. Jones > gnome at hawaii.rr.com > authenticity, honesty, community > http://dancingtreefrog.com > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Sep 2 21:16:26 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 14:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface In-Reply-To: References: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, Len Ovens wrote: > On Tue, 2 Sep 2014, Kazakore wrote: > >>> Madi can be sub-ms RT (return trip) >> >> Really? Coax, optical or both? I used MADI routers in my work but that was >> more about sharing multi-channel audio across sites miles apart than >> low-latency monitoring... (I also have to sadly admit the MADI system is >> one of the ones I new the least about by the time I left that job :( ) > > It depends on distance, but it has almost no overhead compared to most other > formats (besides analog and aes3). It depends on the dsp time used to split > it up and route. After reading some more on ethernet, it becomes easier to see why MADI can have a lot less latency than any ethernet transport. MADI uses a network physical standard, but it does not use some of the other bits. The MADI tx/rx buffer contains one whole MADI frame at a time. The frame itself has no extra data over the size of aes3 data. So each channel is 32bits long. There is no routing information or error correction to be calculated beyond the aes3 parity bit. MADI is a physical point to point protocol. MADI does not use OS drivers to deal with any of this, but rather uses it's own HW to do this as the bit stream enters the card. This means that the audio data from the ADC can reach a DAC at the other end within the same frame if the channel count is less than full or by the next word clock if not. So the latency is one audio word effectively. When used as a computer IF, The card will of course store more than one frame as the audio driver requires. However, this is sw latency and not required by the protocol itself. ethernet, on the other hand, uses hw that is not controled. There needs to be an OS driver to make it work. Because of the variety of HW and drivers, any audio protocol is at least layer 2. This includes routing information, and restricts data to 1500 bytes (46 audio channels) per packet. That in itself is not such a big deal and would only add one word latency if the whole thing was done in hardware. However, it is dealt with by the OS at both ends which has other things it needs to do, so the latency of the OS affects this too. This includes latency going through switches (and their OS) as well as scheduling around other network traffic. Also the possiblity of colisions exists and so dealing with audio in chunks of words makes sense. What this means in practice, is that as a computer IF, there may be no difference between MADI and a level 2 ethernet transport. Level 3 (Ip based) transport adds one more level of sw. It expects to deal with other network traffic too. It has another OS controled level of sw that checks for packet order and may delay a packet if it thinks it is out of order. It assumes data integrity is more important than latency. Convenience is a factor as well because domain names can be used to set the link up without any other user input. This again increases latency. Latency can be tuned but it would take user action. Netjack, does this very successfully, but to work well, other traffic needs to be minimized. In order to use ethernet hardware in any standard fashion, level 2 is the minimum the audio protocol can run at. This means the protocol needs to know the MAC of the other end point. While it would be possible for the user to enter this info, that would make the protocol hard to use and should be avoided. Rather a method of discovering other audio end points would be better. The setup of the system does not have to take place at level 2 but could be higher. Capabilties of different physical enet IFs would need to be addressed. The protocol would need to know the speed of the slowest link if switches are involved. Any new installation will be using 1000m or higher, but the minimum would be a 100m link. A 10m link would not work because the minimum packet size for eithernet is 84bytes (with guard space). The number of audio frames would be limited to about 14k sample rate. By using a separate protocol it would be possible to use a 10m link at a higher latency. (4 audio frames at a time). I suppose that considering that alsa (or jack anyway) seems to consider 16*2 words at a time anyway, the whole protocol could work this way. Not so that 10m is supported so much as it would allow direct tunneling of IP traffic without splitting up packets. My thought is something like this: We control all network traffic. Lets try for 4 words of audio. For sync purposes, at each word boundry a short audio packet is sent of 10 channels. This would be close to minimum enet packet size. Then there should be room for one full size enet packet, in fact even at 100m the small sync packet could contain more than 10 channels (I have basically said 10m would not be supported, but if no network traffic was supported then 10m could do 3 or 4 channels with no word sync). So: Word 1 - audio sync plus 10 tracks - one full network traffic packet word 2 - audio sync plus 10 tracks - one full audio packet 40 tracks split between word 1 and 2 wors 3 - audio sync plus 10 tracks - one full audio packet 40 tracks split between word 2 and 3 word 4 - audio sync plus 10 tracks - one full audio packet 40 tracks split between word 3 and 4 This would allow network traffic at ~20m and 40 tracks with 4 word latency. 1000m would allow much better network performance and more channels. I don't know how this would effect CPU use. I haven't mentioned MIDI or other control, but there is space time wise to add it to the audio sync packet. As this is an open spec, I would probably use MIDI or OSC as the control for levels and routing. I have yet to run the numbers, but the ten tracks with sync is not maxed out, it may go as high as 15 or 16 while still leaving one full network packet at each word for 4x the network speed. The thing is this could be controlled on the fly. The user could choose how many channels they wish to use. The ice1712 gave 12/10 i/o on the d44/d66 as well as the d1010, but in this case that would not happen, only the channels needed could show and the user could choose to make physical inputs 7/8 look like alsa 1/2 very easily. The driver could store more than one network traffic packet at a time and if they are smaller than full 1500 byte size send two in the same window if they are short enough. In this whole exercise, I am trading through put to gain lower latency and (more) predictable timing. Because of HW differences and the fact that the actual hw is serviced outside our control, I don't think the IF could be used as a sync source. As is the case now, two boxes would require external sync to truely be in sync. Daisy chained boxes could be close enough without external sync to not need resampling, but not close enough to deal with two mics and the same audio. powered from the cat5 cable should not be included IMO, but it may make sense to do so anyway, so that if someone does do it anyway, it is interchangable. :P This in not meant to replace things like netjack, which encapsulates audio/MIDI/transport all in one or remote content protocols. This is a local solution meant generally for one room or hall. If other uses are found that is a plus. Does this make any sense? All calc was done for 24bit/48k audio. As with ADAT, AES3 and MADI channels could be paired if 96k is required.... though I think it is flexable enough on a 1000m (even 100m) line that higher rates could be sent natively. Enough rambling. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From karl at aspodata.se Tue Sep 2 21:22:22 2014 From: karl at aspodata.se (karl at aspodata.se) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 23:22:22 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140902212222.AF8DA8021362@turkos.aspodata.se> Len Ovens (Sun, 31 Aug 2014): > On Sun, 31 Aug 2014, Moshe Werner wrote: > > > Interesting, I didn't know this. Can you send a link to it? > > Here is another thread: > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-user/2009-November/064520.html > It moves here: > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/pipermail/linux-audio-dev/2009-November/024713.html Hello Len, I'm still interested of doing this, but have been somewhat occupied with other things. Regards, /Karl Hammar ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Asp? Data Lilla Asp? 148 S-742 94 ?sthammar Sweden +46 173 140 57 From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Sep 2 21:30:08 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 14:30:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 2014, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > The only issue I see with such a program is that it may be hard to tell > when jack is actually started. Maybe I'm wrong and there is an easy way > to tell that I'm not aware of. Maybe something in the jackd API would > help? Would jackctl_server_start() work? > http://jackaudio.org/api/group__ControlAPI.html#ga0ee7d8a3386503ce677f1adbd206e971 Ya, that is an issue. I use jackdbus on my system and have found that the auto start jack when an app finds it is not runniing very frustrating. This is perhaps not so much of a problem with jackd, but in the case you are talking about where the user wants jack started with other than ~.jackdrc it would also be a pain. You would almost have to include the dreaded killall -9 jackd... Even in this case race conditions could make it not work. I think a failed jack_client_open() would give some clue, but would not help with a hung jackd process. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From malnourite at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 21:31:59 2014 From: malnourite at gmail.com (J. Liles) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 14:31:59 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 19:42:16 +0100 > Harry van Haaren wrote: > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 6:44 PM, J. Liles wrote: > > > This is something that would go into the .desktop files of > > > applications as a capability > > > > Cool: then its time to make it work in the UI, and after that > > bug-report every app that is useful with NSM and doesn't have it in > > its .desktop. > > Agreed, I think it's doable. It is little work per-program. I think it > would be sensible to check how real the performance issue is, but the > mtime check Len suggested plus some caching would take care of it most > of the time if the performance issue is real at all. > > > > Certainly I have no intention of adding any qjackctl like > > > configuration features. > > Which also isn't what I'm suggesting > > I agree here too. All I imagine is something that is able to start jack > before everything else, nothing more than that. On the UI side it could > be a simple field where you enter the jackd command you want to use > for this session. > The whole idea of killing and restarting JACK is totally incompatible with session 'switch' functionality. All clients would have to be killed, JACK killed, JACK restarted, and clients restarted. Probably even if the configuration isn't different, as it would be a PITA to try to model JACK's state in that way. To me, this looks like creating problems and complexity for no real benefit. If autostart doesn't work, then that's a JACK problem and should be fixed there. Or--just don't rely on autostart in the first place. IMHO that's more of a workaround to allow 'desktop' type use of JACK apps (probably with auto-connect as well) and doesn't apply to a production workflow. > > > Just create a ~/.jackdrc and you're done. > > That doesn't work per session, and mixing / live-performance have a > > need for very different JACK settings, perhaps even different > > interfaces. > > > > It could be discussed to "highjack" ~/.jackdrc by copying an NSM > > sessions .jackdrc to ~/ although a hack solution for a power-user, > > I think its not a good way to go for beginners. We need something to > > fix this... ideas? > > For my taste this solution is far too hackish. I would not expect or > want any program to modify my ~/.jackdrc. > If jack is already running when the programs start then the ~/.jackdrc > is irrelevant. I'm still in favor of a simple jackstart program > (generic if possible or especially for jack). > > The only issue I see with such a program is that it may be hard to tell > when jack is actually started. Maybe I'm wrong and there is an easy way > to tell that I'm not aware of. Maybe something in the jackd API would > help? Would jackctl_server_start() work? > > http://jackaudio.org/api/group__ControlAPI.html#ga0ee7d8a3386503ce677f1adbd206e971 > > Regards, > Philipp > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From murks at tuxfamily.org Tue Sep 2 21:50:10 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 23:50:10 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 14:31:59 -0700 "J. Liles" wrote: > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Philipp ?berbacher > wrote: > > > On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 19:42:16 +0100 > > Harry van Haaren wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 6:44 PM, J. Liles > > > wrote: > > > > This is something that would go into the .desktop files of > > > > applications as a capability > > > > > > Cool: then its time to make it work in the UI, and after that > > > bug-report every app that is useful with NSM and doesn't have it > > > in its .desktop. > > > > Agreed, I think it's doable. It is little work per-program. I think > > it would be sensible to check how real the performance issue is, > > but the mtime check Len suggested plus some caching would take care > > of it most of the time if the performance issue is real at all. > > > > > > Certainly I have no intention of adding any qjackctl like > > > > configuration features. > > > Which also isn't what I'm suggesting > > > > I agree here too. All I imagine is something that is able to start > > jack before everything else, nothing more than that. On the UI side > > it could be a simple field where you enter the jackd command you > > want to use for this session. > > > > The whole idea of killing and restarting JACK is totally incompatible > with session 'switch' functionality. All clients would have to be > killed, JACK killed, JACK restarted, and clients restarted. Probably > even if the configuration isn't different, as it would be a PITA to > try to model JACK's state in that way. > > To me, this looks like creating problems and complexity for no real > benefit. If autostart doesn't work, then that's a JACK problem and > should be fixed there. Or--just don't rely on autostart in the first > place. IMHO that's more of a workaround to allow 'desktop' type use > of JACK apps (probably with auto-connect as well) and doesn't apply > to a production workflow. I have the feeling that we are talking past each other for some reason. You kill and start all programs anyway if you switch sessions, why not jack as well? It would only be natural. To be honest, I did not consider the killing jack part so far. How would you go about things as it is now if you want to switch between sessions that require different sample rates? You would close session one, kill jack, restart jack with the settings required for session two and start session two. Why not include that in the session management? It seems like the logical thing to do. I do not want to rely on autostart, I want to explicitly start jack with specific per-session settings as part of the session management. I hope that makes things a bit clearer. Regards, Philipp From malnourite at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 22:06:53 2014 From: malnourite at gmail.com (J. Liles) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:06:53 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 2:50 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 14:31:59 -0700 > "J. Liles" wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 1:00 PM, Philipp ?berbacher > > wrote: > > > > > On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 19:42:16 +0100 > > > Harry van Haaren wrote: > > > > > > > On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 6:44 PM, J. Liles > > > > wrote: > > > > > This is something that would go into the .desktop files of > > > > > applications as a capability > > > > > > > > Cool: then its time to make it work in the UI, and after that > > > > bug-report every app that is useful with NSM and doesn't have it > > > > in its .desktop. > > > > > > Agreed, I think it's doable. It is little work per-program. I think > > > it would be sensible to check how real the performance issue is, > > > but the mtime check Len suggested plus some caching would take care > > > of it most of the time if the performance issue is real at all. > > > > > > > > Certainly I have no intention of adding any qjackctl like > > > > > configuration features. > > > > Which also isn't what I'm suggesting > > > > > > I agree here too. All I imagine is something that is able to start > > > jack before everything else, nothing more than that. On the UI side > > > it could be a simple field where you enter the jackd command you > > > want to use for this session. > > > > > > > The whole idea of killing and restarting JACK is totally incompatible > > with session 'switch' functionality. All clients would have to be > > killed, JACK killed, JACK restarted, and clients restarted. Probably > > even if the configuration isn't different, as it would be a PITA to > > try to model JACK's state in that way. > > > > To me, this looks like creating problems and complexity for no real > > benefit. If autostart doesn't work, then that's a JACK problem and > > should be fixed there. Or--just don't rely on autostart in the first > > place. IMHO that's more of a workaround to allow 'desktop' type use > > of JACK apps (probably with auto-connect as well) and doesn't apply > > to a production workflow. > > I have the feeling that we are talking past each other for some reason. > > You kill and start all programs anyway if you switch sessions, why not > jack as well? It would only be natural. To be honest, I did not > consider the killing jack part so far. > > How would you go about things as it is now if you want to switch > between sessions that require different sample rates? > You would close session one, kill jack, restart jack with the settings > required for session two and start session two. Why not include that in > the session management? It seems like the logical thing to do. > > I do not want to rely on autostart, I want to explicitly start jack > with specific per-session settings as part of the session management. > > I hope that makes things a bit clearer. > I do not do that though. NSM is the only session manager to support live 'switch'ing of sessions--no programs have to be restarted that support the 'switch' functionality (all the non stuff does). The only reason I can think of that you'd want to swtich to a session with a different sample rate is if you're swtiching between e.g. making music and doing cinema sound track or somesuch and there are many other things you'd likely want to change for that as well. I think it's stretching quite a bit to argue that this (including JACK's setup in the session) is necessary functionality. To make my position clear, let me define an example of my workflow: 1. Make coffee 2. Start JACK with the desired parameters for the type of work I'm planning to do. E.g. buffer size 3. Run NSM 4. Open session and work on it. 5. Switch to other (related sessions) [why would these be at any other sample rate 6. If I need to alter JACK's parameters, stop session, run e.g. jack_bufsize, reopen session 7. Get work done instead of dreaming up ways to implement complicated features nobody actually needs But wait, there's more... Now I want to work on the road, so I sync the relevant sessions to my laptop. My laptop has a different sound card and requires different JACK settings (and it much more limited in ability to achieve low latencies). In my workflow, this presents no problem. If I implemented this JACK configuration feature, then I would have CREATED a problem where there were none before. Hopefully you can see why I'm not interested in implementing this feature. > > Regards, > Philipp > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From althompson58 at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 22:20:31 2014 From: althompson58 at gmail.com (Al Thompson) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 18:20:31 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <540642AF.70905@gmail.com> On 09/01/2014 01:18 PM, David Christensen wrote: > On 09/01/2014 02:09 AM, Alexandre DENIS wrote: >> Documentation is not *required*, it is suggested or recommended. Put >> the following two lines in your /etc/apt/apt.conf >> APT::Install-Suggests "0"; >> APT::Install-Recommends "0"; > > I shouldn't have to do that -- the people who package and contribute > to Debian need to pay more attention to space efficiency. I actually think you have it backwards. In the days of broadband, I would think that the packagers should be more concerned with completeness. A new user, or Linux n00b is going to appreciate having a complete install, since they won't have the knowledge or inclination to install the "rest of the distro" that they will need to configure and use the system. From harryhaaren at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 22:22:56 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 23:22:56 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 11:06 PM, J. Liles wrote: > In my workflow, this presents no problem. If I implemented this JACK > configuration feature, then I would have CREATED a problem where there were > none before. > Hopefully you can see why I'm not interested in implementing this feature. Yep. Good point, it seemed like something that would be nice to handle in NSM, but i now agree that NSM should *not* handle jack settings. The user has to do this manually: its not feasible to script / auto-save JACK settings reliably. So before starting the NSM UI / nsmd, it might be worth checking if JACK is running, and if its not, providing an option to ask A) Do you want to start JACK a la ~/.jackdrc B) Continue without JACK C) Quit Does that seem reasonable? I'm thinking about beginner users, who are not familiar with the eco-system, and making this as usable as possible. Cheers, -Harry www.openavproductions.com From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Sep 2 22:24:22 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 15:24:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: <20140902212222.AF8DA8021362@turkos.aspodata.se> References: <20140902212222.AF8DA8021362@turkos.aspodata.se> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 2014, karl at aspodata.se wrote: > Hello Len, I'm still interested of doing this, but have been somewhat > occupied with other things. I felt that was probably true. I am trying not to duplicate anything I remember from that :) For me this is not a HW project right now but a sw net transport that I hope will be light, transferable and stable. It may have other use outside of audio interface connection to a computer, but that is my first use idea. It will be a while before I can play with it as I will need to replace my wife's computer first. I also have a life outside of computers and audio. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From rmouneyres at gmail.com Tue Sep 2 22:29:58 2014 From: rmouneyres at gmail.com (raf) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 00:29:58 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: References: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: <27D3F8A1-1D1D-469E-B93D-C42CDA08B5ED@gmail.com> > I assume people have heard and read up on AES67? I admit I haven't beyond skimming it and can't say I'm sure whether it's its own specification or more about getting the various existing solutions to communicate together. Probably worth reading though... Hello, i found this discussion very interesting, I have thoughts for a similar system. Len, I particularly enjoy reading your thoughts, they find a echo in my brain. While looking for info, in the AES67 path there is the archwave system which has recently integrated copperlan control in his chip. http://archwave.net/ While this is proprietary solution, the chip (without knowing about hardware and licence costs if any) could be used to design a AI with embedded ethernet, multi-channel audio, usb recording...etc. Then controlling the board via copperlan is available to majors OSes, linux not beaing fully ready yet, but the SDK allows to create a jack client. this may not be the path you want to follow. Rapha?l From murks at tuxfamily.org Tue Sep 2 22:57:45 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 00:57:45 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 23:22:56 +0100 Harry van Haaren wrote: > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 11:06 PM, J. Liles > wrote: > > In my workflow, this presents no problem. If I implemented this JACK > > configuration feature, then I would have CREATED a problem where > > there were none before. > > > Hopefully you can see why I'm not interested in implementing this > > feature. > Yep. Good point, it seemed like something that would be nice to > handle in NSM, but i now agree that NSM should *not* handle jack > settings. The user has to do this manually: its not feasible to > script / auto-save JACK settings reliably. > > So before starting the NSM UI / nsmd, it might be worth checking if > JACK is running, and if its not, providing an option to ask > A) Do you want to start JACK a la ~/.jackdrc > B) Continue without JACK > C) Quit > > Does that seem reasonable? I'm thinking about beginner users, who are > not familiar with the eco-system, and making this as usable as > possible. > > Cheers, -Harry Well, I still think it is a good idea. It would not create problems for you, simply because you're not forced to use this if it is realised as a client in the spirit of jackconnect. I did not know that nsm supports live switching of sessions without restarting clients, but in case you need to change the jack sample rate you most likely can't do that anyway. I guess that with that functionality in use 'live switching' would not be possible or only in special cases (identical jack settings). That would be the only drawback I can see. Regards, Philipp From kevinc at cosgroves.us Tue Sep 2 23:12:29 2014 From: kevinc at cosgroves.us (Kevin Cosgrove) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 16:12:29 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Audio File to Graphic Thumbnail in Command Line? In-Reply-To: <20140830092659.4BA84BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: <20140902231229.D6D45BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> I dug into this a bit more. Getting the time & amplitude data out of the WAV file was easy with sox file.wav -t dat - | tail -n +3 > file.dat My beloved xgraph is not available on Fedora anymore. That made me relearn gnuplot, a good move regardless. I wrote a script to build a gnuplot input file, file.gpl, which contains something like set terminal png notransparent nocrop set output file.png plot [] [-1:1] "file.dat" with lines Then I run gnuplot on its input file like so gnuplot file.gpl > file.png I left out a lot of housekeeping related to my scripting. But, the above does all of the work needed to produce a nice graph of my audio files. Of course, this isn't fast. It takes about 4 minutes on my 3.4GHz i7 with 16GB of RAM to create a plot from a 0.5GB mono WAV file. Audacity and Ardour are faster than sox + gnuplot at creating their waveform views. But, I can script with sox + gnuplot. I hope this is useful for someone trolling the archive someday. Cheerio... -- Kevin From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Sep 2 23:18:16 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 16:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: <27D3F8A1-1D1D-469E-B93D-C42CDA08B5ED@gmail.com> References: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <27D3F8A1-1D1D-469E-B93D-C42CDA08B5ED@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 3 Sep 2014, raf wrote: > i found this discussion very interesting, I have thoughts for a similar system. > Len, I particularly enjoy reading your thoughts, they find a echo in my brain. > > While looking for info, in the AES67 path there is the archwave system which has recently integrated copperlan control in his chip. > http://archwave.net/ > While this is proprietary solution, the chip (without knowing about hardware and licence costs if any) could be used to design a AI with embedded ethernet, multi-channel audio, usb recording...etc. > Then controlling the board via copperlan is available to majors OSes, linux not beaing fully ready yet, but the SDK allows to create a jack client. > > this may not be the path you want to follow. As with some of the other similar protocols, I am interested in latency. The site pointed to above has a "Details" tab which I followed, but the details seem to be "We're great" more than some spec other than pointing at other standards (AES67 and copperlan) However, the give away to me is the "integrating with existing network". Low latency tends to fail at that point. The one thing I did come away with :) is that like everything else these days, being able to control the interface via a web interface makes sense. It is almost the expected method. The biggest down side to this is the size of data needed to change one thing makes continuous control almost impossible. But for set up it might just be ideal. Copperlan looks similar to what I am suggesting, but is closed so far as I can tell. That is, even though there may at some point be a linux driver, it will not be packaged with most ISOs. Other people will not use it because it is not open. If I look at where this thread started, it was replacing one of the few good open bits of HW. There are new audio interfaces around that will plug into PCIe slots, but not many of them that have open anything, certainly not linux drivers. SO openness is important. The particular device mentioned was a FW device that used to be of interest to those using a laptop because it has been found that while there are USB2 devices that do work with Linux because of class compliance, they are finicky to get good performance out of. Some times a kernel change can kill it. A non-open driver for coppernet will have problems (look at some of the graphics drivers) This one is already way late. To rely on a closed source house one expects a linux driver the same day OSx/win drivers come out. This will obviously not happen. If I was going to use any existing project at all, it would be netjack. Coming up with a level 2 variant would probably make it what I want. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From malnourite at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 00:32:36 2014 From: malnourite at gmail.com (J. Liles) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 17:32:36 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 23:22:56 +0100 > Harry van Haaren wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 11:06 PM, J. Liles > > wrote: > > > In my workflow, this presents no problem. If I implemented this JACK > > > configuration feature, then I would have CREATED a problem where > > > there were none before. > > > > > Hopefully you can see why I'm not interested in implementing this > > > feature. > > Yep. Good point, it seemed like something that would be nice to > > handle in NSM, but i now agree that NSM should *not* handle jack > > settings. The user has to do this manually: its not feasible to > > script / auto-save JACK settings reliably. > > > > So before starting the NSM UI / nsmd, it might be worth checking if > > JACK is running, and if its not, providing an option to ask > > A) Do you want to start JACK a la ~/.jackdrc > > B) Continue without JACK > > C) Quit > > > > Does that seem reasonable? I'm thinking about beginner users, who are > > not familiar with the eco-system, and making this as usable as > > possible. > > > > Cheers, -Harry > > Well, I still think it is a good idea. It would not create problems for > you, simply because you're not forced to use this if it is realised as > a client in the spirit of jackconnect. > > I did not know that nsm supports live switching of sessions without > restarting clients, but in case you need to change the jack sample rate > you most likely can't do that anyway. I guess that with that > functionality in use 'live switching' would not be possible or > only in special cases (identical jack settings). > That would be the only drawback I can see. > Theoretically there's no conflict between sample rate changes and switching--assuming of course that A) all of the clients involved can deal with runtime sample rate changes and B) that none of them will complain if the JACK sample rate and the project sample rate differ (however briefly). And likewise, theoretically it's fine to change sample rate and buffer size without stopping JACK clients. In fact, I do test all the Non stuff for this scenario. But I don't usually do that in practice though. Too many bad memories from the time when running jack_bufsize with clients attached would crash stuff. > Regards, > Philipp > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Wed Sep 3 00:56:21 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 17:56:21 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <54066735.1080008@holgerdanske.com> On 09/01/2014 12:17 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > Cheap USB stick = 4G, it is hard to find a 1G USB stick. Even 32G sticks > are not real expensive, though the difference between 16G and 32G in > price is more than it should be. A 2G live ISO will run from 2G. On a 4G > stick it can use the rest of the space to save data... no install required. I agree that 8 and 16 GB USB 2.0 drives are the current cheap commodity items in single unit quantities available "at retailers everywhere". This was what I was talking about when I said "a cheap USB drive" "with enough code to bootstrap a system that can connect to the network and download the installer": http://www.oempcworld.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=USB64&Category_Code=Gigaram&Product_Count=7 10 for $25.70 +tax +shipping. Enough room for Damn Small Linux, Debian mini.iso, etc., and cheap enough that you can pass them out at an installfest, LUG meeting, presentation, course, etc.. :-) David From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Sep 3 01:07:40 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 18:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 2014, J. Liles wrote: > And likewise, theoretically it's fine to change sample rate and buffer size without > stopping JACK clients. > > In fact, I do test all the Non stuff for this scenario. But I don't usually do that in > practice though. Too many bad memories from the time when running jack_bufsize with > clients attached would crash stuff. I do use jack_bufsize, a jack client can deal with it. Ardour will keep playing back thorugh a bufer size change with only an audible glitch going the wrong way, but Phasex will sound strange untill buff size goes back to where it started or is restarted. I haven't had anything crash when I do this ... yet :) -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Sep 3 01:41:12 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 18:41:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54066735.1080008@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> <54066735.1080008@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 2014, David Christensen wrote: > On 09/01/2014 12:17 PM, Len Ovens wrote: >> Cheap USB stick = 4G, it is hard to find a 1G USB stick. Even 32G sticks >> are not real expensive, though the difference between 16G and 32G in >> price is more than it should be. A 2G live ISO will run from 2G. On a 4G >> stick it can use the rest of the space to save data... no install required. > > > I agree that 8 and 16 GB USB 2.0 drives are the current cheap commodity items > in single unit quantities available "at retailers everywhere". > > > This was what I was talking about when I said "a cheap USB drive" "with > enough code to bootstrap a system that can connect to the network and > download the installer": > > > http://www.oempcworld.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=USB64&Category_Code=Gigaram&Product_Count=7 > > 10 for $25.70 +tax +shipping. Enough room for Damn Small Linux, Debian > mini.iso, etc., and cheap enough that you can pass them out at an > installfest, LUG meeting, presentation, course, etc.. :-) Have you been to your local dollar store lately? I have yet to buy a USB drive there, but mouse, keyboard and USB hub are $3 each. USB sticks are at least 1G same price or less... no shipping. (I actually think they were 4G) SO far as that goes, from the same site: http://www.oempcworld.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=USB1024 http://www.oempcworld.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=USB4096 For $1.26 more each you don't have to struggle to make it fit. I still think dollar store will be cheaper... I think this is the one they have: http://www.oempcworld.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=USB4096-SW Next time I am there I will take a look just to be sure. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Wed Sep 3 02:41:47 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 19:41:47 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> On 09/02/2014 02:14 PM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: > Just curious? Does this center more on crappy internet access/cost? There are some miserable ISP options available in an amazingly large footprint given the day and age. WiMAX has helped in US but not much. I have always chosen to live in the boonies when possible and have utilized all of them at some point. When I'm in town on a nice CATV net connection that drops a 2.5g ISO on my drive in minutes, I don't care what's in the package so long as relevant to the system. Yes! Let us not forget that those of us with broadband Internet connections are privileged. I suspect that many, if not most, people on this planet have no access to this luxury. Shame on FOSS developers that either have forgotten, or are too callous to care about, the discipline taught by operating a computer connected to the outside world via a plain old telephone system (POTS) modem. Downloading 745 MB when only 4,423 kB is required is gluttony. Distributing software that downloads 745 MB by default when only 4,423 kB is required is planned mass gluttony. My mistake was assuming that the Debian developers understood. Apparently, not. It appears they are not alone. So, I've downloaded the 4,423 kB and am attempting to make that work: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=760239 David From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Wed Sep 3 03:21:20 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 20:21:20 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404ABAF.6040501@holgerdanske.com> <54066735.1080008@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <54068930.4070407@holgerdanske.com> On 09/02/2014 06:41 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > Have you been to your local dollar store lately? That's a tough one. I'm a union electrician in the United States and I avoid Walmart, etc., because of the games they play with their workers. Unfortunately, it has become increasingly difficult to research and identify products that don't have this problem (or worse) somewhere in their supply chain. Legalized political campaign contributions, foreign state-sponsored capitalism, and free trade agreements are a recipe for slavery, and it's working. Buying USB drives on the Internet (my previous links) vs. buying them at a retail store (your suggestion) only affects the tail end of the supply chain. My not shopping at the dollar store is too little, too late. David From mis at artengine.ca Wed Sep 3 03:28:41 2014 From: mis at artengine.ca (Michal Seta) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 23:28:41 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: References: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <27D3F8A1-1D1D-469E-B93D-C42CDA08B5ED@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > If I was going to use any existing project at all, it would be netjack. > Coming up with a level 2 variant would probably make it what I want. > Maybe, it's because you don't know switcher (http://code.sat.qc.ca/switcher) :) Yes, I am biased, but I am only half serious because, admittedly, I only skimmed this thread. This may not be what you're looking for but I figured it was appropriate to point you to this alternative... Best. Micha? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From falktx at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 03:49:26 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 04:49:26 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> On 09/02/2014 11:57 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > I did not know that nsm supports live switching of sessions without > restarting clients, but in case you need to change the jack sample rate > you most likely can't do that anyway. FYI: You can change sample rate on the fly (e.g. without stopping JACK) if you use JACK2 and switch-master. When this happens clients will receive buffer-size and sample-rate change callbacks. From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Sep 3 04:11:52 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 21:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Open Source Audio Interface (was Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface?) In-Reply-To: References: <1ec8c3ec03704858b6d31a7571ca5843@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <27D3F8A1-1D1D-469E-B93D-C42CDA08B5ED@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Sep 2014, Michal Seta wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > If I was going to use any existing project at all, it would be netjack. > Coming up with a level 2 variant would probably make it what I want. > > > Maybe, it's because you don't know switcher (http://code.sat.qc.ca/switcher) :) > Yes, I am biased, but I am only half serious because, admittedly, I only skimmed this > thread. This may not be what you're looking for but I figured it was appropriate to > point you to this alternative... Not really an alternative, but rather a different use case. Higher latency than I am willing to contemplate for this project. What I am doing may in the long run be of use to the switcher project though as it seems to act as a glue between different projects. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From raffaele.morelli at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 04:34:32 2014 From: raffaele.morelli at gmail.com (Raffaele Morelli) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 06:34:32 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: 2014-09-03 4:41 GMT+02:00 David Christensen : > On 09/02/2014 02:14 PM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: > >> Just curious? Does this center more on crappy internet access/cost? There >> are some miserable ISP options available in an amazingly large footprint >> given the day and age. WiMAX has helped in US but not much. I have always >> chosen to live in the boonies when possible and have utilized all of them >> at some point. When I'm in town on a nice CATV net connection that drops a >> 2.5g ISO on my drive in minutes, I don't care what's in the package so long >> as relevant to the system. >> > > Yes! > > > Let us not forget that those of us with broadband Internet connections are > privileged. I suspect that many, if not most, people on this planet have > no access to this luxury. > > > Shame on FOSS developers that either have forgotten, or are too callous to > care about, the discipline taught by operating a computer connected to the > outside world via a plain old telephone system (POTS) modem. > > > Downloading 745 MB when only 4,423 kB is required is gluttony. > > > Distributing software that downloads 745 MB by default when only 4,423 kB > is required is planned mass gluttony. > > > My mistake was assuming that the Debian developers understood. Apparently, > not. It appears they are not alone. > ?debian developers are not here to fix lazy minde?d fools "bugs" PS file a bug report with an ice cream criteria request -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brummer- at web.de Wed Sep 3 05:14:15 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 07:14:15 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5406A3A7.2070004@web.de> Am 03.09.2014 04:41, schrieb David Christensen: > On 09/02/2014 02:14 PM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: >> Just curious? Does this center more on crappy internet access/cost? >> There are some miserable ISP options available in an amazingly large >> footprint given the day and age. WiMAX has helped in US but not much. >> I have always chosen to live in the boonies when possible and have >> utilized all of them at some point. When I'm in town on a nice CATV >> net connection that drops a 2.5g ISO on my drive in minutes, I don't >> care what's in the package so long as relevant to the system. > > Yes! > > > Let us not forget that those of us with broadband Internet connections > are privileged. I suspect that many, if not most, people on this > planet have no access to this luxury. > If your internet connection is to bad to download the ISO, you could as well buy a CD (And support the project). https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/ > > Shame on FOSS developers that either have forgotten, or are too > callous to care about, the discipline taught by operating a computer > connected to the outside world via a plain old telephone system (POTS) > modem. > Shame on those people who believe that there very own requirement have to be respected in the first place, over the requirement of the majority of the users. From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Wed Sep 3 05:30:01 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 22:30:01 -0700 Subject: [LAU] META list owner and terms of use In-Reply-To: References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5406A759.6070008@holgerdanske.com> linux-audio-user: I don't see a list owner or a terms of use policy for this list on what I presume are the appropriate pages: http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo Who is the list owner? What is the policy regarding personal attacks, etc.? TIA, David On 09/02/2014 10:14 PM, hermann meyer wrote:> Am 03.09.2014 04:41, schrieb David Christensen: >> On 09/02/2014 02:14 PM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: >>> Just curious? Does this center more on crappy internet access/cost? >>> There are some miserable ISP options available in an amazingly large >>> footprint given the day and age. WiMAX has helped in US but not much. >>> I have always chosen to live in the boonies when possible and have >>> utilized all of them at some point. When I'm in town on a nice CATV >>> net connection that drops a 2.5g ISO on my drive in minutes, I don't >>> care what's in the package so long as relevant to the system. >> >> Yes! >> >> >> Let us not forget that those of us with broadband Internet connections >> are privileged. I suspect that many, if not most, people on this >> planet have no access to this luxury. >> > > If your internet connection is to bad to download the ISO, you could as > well buy a CD (And support the project). > > https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/ >> >> Shame on FOSS developers that either have forgotten, or are too >> callous to care about, the discipline taught by operating a computer >> connected to the outside world via a plain old telephone system (POTS) >> modem. >> > Shame on those people who believe that there very own requirement have > to be respected in the first place, over the requirement of the majority > of the users. On 09/02/2014 09:34 PM, Raffaele Morelli wrote: > 2014-09-03 4:41 GMT+02:00 David Christensen : > >> On 09/02/2014 02:14 PM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: >> >>> Just curious? Does this center more on crappy internet access/cost? There >>> are some miserable ISP options available in an amazingly large footprint >>> given the day and age. WiMAX has helped in US but not much. I have always >>> chosen to live in the boonies when possible and have utilized all of them >>> at some point. When I'm in town on a nice CATV net connection that drops a >>> 2.5g ISO on my drive in minutes, I don't care what's in the package so long >>> as relevant to the system. >>> >> >> Yes! >> >> >> Let us not forget that those of us with broadband Internet connections are >> privileged. I suspect that many, if not most, people on this planet have >> no access to this luxury. >> >> >> Shame on FOSS developers that either have forgotten, or are too callous to >> care about, the discipline taught by operating a computer connected to the >> outside world via a plain old telephone system (POTS) modem. >> >> >> Downloading 745 MB when only 4,423 kB is required is gluttony. >> >> >> Distributing software that downloads 745 MB by default when only 4,423 kB >> is required is planned mass gluttony. >> >> >> My mistake was assuming that the Debian developers understood. Apparently, >> not. It appears they are not alone. >> > > ?debian developers are not here to fix lazy minde?d fools "bugs" > > PS file a bug report with an ice cream criteria request > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > From brummer- at web.de Wed Sep 3 05:45:35 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 07:45:35 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5406AAFF.2060306@web.de> Am 03.09.2014 04:41, schrieb David Christensen: > On 09/02/2014 02:14 PM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: >> Just curious? Does this center more on crappy internet access/cost? >> There are some miserable ISP options available in an amazingly large >> footprint given the day and age. WiMAX has helped in US but not much. >> I have always chosen to live in the boonies when possible and have >> utilized all of them at some point. When I'm in town on a nice CATV >> net connection that drops a 2.5g ISO on my drive in minutes, I don't >> care what's in the package so long as relevant to the system. > > Yes! > > > Let us not forget that those of us with broadband Internet connections > are privileged. I suspect that many, if not most, people on this > planet have no access to this luxury. > > If your internet connection is so bad, you could as well buy a debian CD https://www.debian.org/CD/vendors/ > Shame on FOSS developers that either have forgotten, or are too > callous to care about, the discipline taught by operating a computer > connected to the outside world via a plain old telephone system (POTS) > modem. > Shame on those who believe that there very own requirements have to be respected in first place, and who didn't accept a helping hand to get things work like they want, even if it isn't the default. From list at nilsgey.de Wed Sep 3 07:04:17 2014 From: list at nilsgey.de (Nils) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 09:04:17 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> So the problem here, as I see it, is that Jack itself is not an NSM aware client. My perception of NSM always was that it is not strictly bound to jack but jack is another client. If jack would be a NSM client which supports switch and saves it settings in the session folder you can save the samplerate (and the connections, without a special program). On the other hand that binds a session to specific jack settings again, which is bad. Are there any examples of NSM clients that deal with system-specific settings? Nils On 03.09.2014 05:49, Filipe Coelho wrote: > On 09/02/2014 11:57 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: >> I did not know that nsm supports live switching of sessions without >> restarting clients, but in case you need to change the jack sample rate >> you most likely can't do that anyway. > > FYI: You can change sample rate on the fly (e.g. without stopping > JACK) if you use JACK2 and switch-master. > > When this happens clients will receive buffer-size and sample-rate > change callbacks. > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > From jeremy at autostatic.com Wed Sep 3 09:16:57 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:16:57 +0200 Subject: [LAU] META list owner and terms of use In-Reply-To: <5406A759.6070008@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> <5406A759.6070008@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5406DC89.20500@autostatic.com> On 09/03/2014 07:30 AM, David Christensen wrote: > linux-audio-user: > > I don't see a list owner or a terms of use policy for this list on what > I presume are the appropriate pages: > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo > > > Who is the list owner? > Hello David, There is no real list owner, it's a community driven mailing list. > > What is the policy regarding personal attacks, etc.? There is no policy. But the list admins can take action if they deem it necessary. Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mott at reverberant.com Wed Sep 3 10:01:34 2014 From: mott at reverberant.com (Iain Mott) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 07:01:34 -0300 Subject: [LAU] html5 audio through jack In-Reply-To: <20140831184541.7d37587a@hacklava.net> References: <1409395113.3154.5.camel@espelho> <20140831214250.271947d4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140831184541.7d37587a@hacklava.net> Message-ID: <1409738494.3684.6.camel@espelho> Thanks Marc - I got it working with these links; installing the pulseaudio-module-jack package mentioned in the first link, then preparing the scripts launched by qjackctl in the second. Pretty sure that's what I did. I also used the .asoundrc as given in my original post. Iain Em Dom, 2014-08-31 ?s 18:45 -0400, Marc Lavall?e escreveu: > I play the audio output of my browsers (Firefox and Chrome/Chromium) > through jack. It works with HTML5 and Flash. > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/18/html/Musicians_Guide/sect-Musicians_Guide-Integrating_PulseAudio_with_JACK.html > > https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PulseAudio/Examples#PulseAudio_through_JACK > > The pulseaudio "jack" sink register as a 8 channels playback source in > jack, so it works with 5.1 and 7.1 streams, not only for stereo streams. > > -- > Marc > > Le Sun, 31 Aug 2014 21:42:50 +0200, > Philipp ?berbacher a ?crit : > > > On Sat, 30 Aug 2014 07:38:33 -0300 > > Iain Mott wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi list, > > > > > > I'm thinking of updating some of my web pages to use multi-platform > > > flash/html5 audio players, at present they use flash only and won't > > > play on iPads for example. > > > > > > Due to some problems I was having with pulse audio in relation to my > > > HDSP interface I have recently disabled it and all my audio is > > > running via jack/alsa and the HDSP interface. With flash in firefox, > > > there are no problems and the audio plays. My .asoundrc is > > > configured with the following: > > > > > > pcm.rawjack { > > > type jack > > > playback_ports { > > > 0 system:playback_1 > > > 1 system:playback_2 > > > } > > > capture_ports { > > > 0 system:capture_1 > > > 1 system:capture_2 > > > } > > > } > > > > > > pcm.jack { > > > type plug > > > slave { pcm "rawjack" } > > > hint { > > > description "JACK Audio Connection Kit" > > > } > > > } > > > > > > > > > pcm.!default { > > > type plug > > > slave { pcm "rawjack" } > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > HTML5 players in firefox don't play however via jack. When pulse was > > > enabled, HTML5 content would play through the computer's built-in > > > sound card. Now that it's disabled I can't get it to play through > > > jack. > > > > > > An example page with a HTML5 player is here: > > > > > > http://www.html5tutorial.info/html5-audio.php > > > > > > Any suggestions please? A modification of the .asoundrc? > > > > > > I'm running Ubuntu 14.04 > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > I'm not surprised. I am very much against anything audio (or > > multimedia) in browsers. Nowadays browsers do pretty much everything, > > but badly. One constant grieve for me since years has been that there > > are virtually no audio settings for the browser (for example search > > for 'audio' in firefox about:config). It just takes whatever it can > > find, whatever is default on the system, and plays back through the > > first two channels. It may work for 95% of the users, but if you're > > part of the remaining 5% you can't do anything about it. > > For that reason alone doing any specialised multimedia thing for the > > browser is just crazy, there is basically no user control. > > In your particular case I think it is the flash plugin itself that > > handled audio output, and now with html5 it is the browser that does > > it,and probably does something stupid. Maybe the way it rubs the ALSA > > API the wrong way. It is really hard to say what's going on in a > > browser. > > > > Sorry to be of little help. > > > > Philipp > > _______________________________________________ > > Linux-audio-user mailing list > > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user From ats at offog.org Wed Sep 3 11:22:37 2014 From: ats at offog.org (Adam Sampson) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 12:22:37 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> (David Christensen's message of "Tue, 02 Sep 2014 19:41:47 -0700") References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: David Christensen writes: > So, I've downloaded the 4,423 kB and am attempting to make that work: > https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=760239 You're probably best off just dropping the aufs patch -- it's useful for things like live CDs (because it lets you overlay a read-only FS with a writable one, and similar tricks), but you're pretty unlikely to need it on a conventional machine. The Debian userspace certainly doesn't require it; I don't patch it into the kernels I build. -- Adam Sampson From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 3 12:01:52 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:01:52 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] META list owner and terms of use In-Reply-To: <5406A759.6070008@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> <5406A759.6070008@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <1409745712.2283.10.camel@rocketmail.com> On Tue, 2014-09-02 at 22:30 -0700, David Christensen wrote: > What is the policy regarding personal attacks, etc.? Don't care about it ;). If you think you need to lament "list run by listadmin at linuxaudio.org", take a look at your links ;). I might be mistaken, but I guess it's Robin. But who ever it should be, just use this address. Often it's a kindergarten, likely some folks lament about you too. MUAs usually have got filters ;). From falktx at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 12:28:23 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:28:23 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> Message-ID: <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> On 09/01/2014 12:21 AM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > I am fascinated by Carla's ability to call ZASFX. How could this be > implemented for Yoshimi? Are there config files of some sort? There is no reason for this to happen. ZynAddSubFX is more stable nowadays than Yoshimi and being maintained by a very good developer. Very soon I'll be releasing a LV2+VST plugin version of Zyn (based on the last stable release). Latest Zyn dev/git version now has fully automable parameters, undo/redo, OSC and UI<->DSP de-coupling (no more using a super ugly master mutex). As much as you might want to use Yoshimi, it needs to be let go and development focused on Zyn instead. PS: This message went to my spam folder, didn't noticed it until now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brummer- at web.de Wed Sep 3 12:34:16 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:34:16 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <54070AC8.9050607@web.de> Am 03.09.2014 13:22, schrieb Adam Sampson: > David Christensen writes: > >> So, I've downloaded the 4,423 kB and am attempting to make that work: >> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=760239 > You're probably best off just dropping the aufs patch -- it's useful for > things like live CDs (because it lets you overlay a read-only FS with a > writable one, and similar tricks), but you're pretty unlikely to need it > on a conventional machine. The Debian userspace certainly doesn't > require it; I don't patch it into the kernels I build. > If you need it, here is the way to go: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.file-systems.aufs.user/4299 From tito.01beta at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 15:55:40 2014 From: tito.01beta at gmail.com (Tito Latini) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 17:55:40 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Audio File to Graphic Thumbnail in Command Line? In-Reply-To: <20140902231229.D6D45BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> References: <20140830092659.4BA84BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> <20140902231229.D6D45BE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: <20140903155540.GA1725@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> On Tue, Sep 02, 2014 at 04:12:29PM -0700, Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > > I dug into this a bit more. > > Getting the time & amplitude data out of the WAV file was easy with > > sox file.wav -t dat - | tail -n +3 > file.dat > > My beloved xgraph is not available on Fedora anymore. That made me > relearn gnuplot, a good move regardless. I wrote a script to build > a gnuplot input file, file.gpl, which contains something like > > set terminal png notransparent nocrop > set output file.png > plot [] [-1:1] "file.dat" with lines > > Then I run gnuplot on its input file like so > > gnuplot file.gpl > file.png > > I left out a lot of housekeeping related to my scripting. But, the > above does all of the work needed to produce a nice graph of my audio > files. > > Of course, this isn't fast. It takes about 4 minutes on my > 3.4GHz i7 with 16GB of RAM to create a plot from a 0.5GB mono WAV > file. Audacity and Ardour are faster than sox + gnuplot at creating > their waveform views. But, I can script with sox + gnuplot. > > I hope this is useful for someone trolling the archive someday. If the speed is important, Praat [1] also is a possible alternative. There is a script in this message as a proof of concept. Usage: ./sf2png [options] SNDFILE... Write the images of the waveform of one or more soundfiles. -h n heigth of the viewport [1.2]. -n suppress the plot annotations. -s fontsize size of the font [4]. -w n width of the viewport [1.6]. Examples: ./sf2png /path/to/sndfiles/*.wav The png files are in the same directory of the related soundfiles. ./sf2png -n -w 0.8 -h 0.5 /path/to/sndfiles/*.wav ./sf2png -w 4 -h 3 -s 5 /path/to/sndfiles/*.wav [1] http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/ ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>< #!/bin/bash # # Write the images of the waveform of one or more soundfiles. usage() { cat < ${imgfile}" # # Warning: if there are trailing spaces after the copy-and-paste # of this script, remember to remove at least the spaces after # ${sndfile} and ${imgfile} in the follow praat script. # praat /dev/stdin < References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1409762092.32351.1.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 13:28 +0100, Filipe Coelho wrote: > ZynAddSubFX is more stable nowadays than Yoshimi Here both were stable, but I use Yoshimi, because ZynAddSubFX often isn't available by a package for some distros. IIRC by default the sound quality of ZynAddSubFX is better, but IIRC it's related to the default settings and when editing the defaults both sound equal. I might be mistaken, I won't test it right now. From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Wed Sep 3 18:06:20 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 19:06:20 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140903190620.49839224@debian> On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:28:23 +0100 Filipe Coelho wrote: > On 09/01/2014 12:21 AM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > > I am fascinated by Carla's ability to call ZASFX. How could this be > > implemented for Yoshimi? Are there config files of some sort? > > There is no reason for this to happen. > ZynAddSubFX is more stable nowadays than Yoshimi and being maintained by > a very good developer. > > Very soon I'll be releasing a LV2+VST plugin version of Zyn (based on > the last stable release). > Latest Zyn dev/git version now has fully automable parameters, > undo/redo, OSC and UI<->DSP de-coupling (no more using a super ugly > master mutex). > > As much as you might want to use Yoshimi, it needs to be let go and > development focused on Zyn instead. You know, I'm beginning to get a little tired of comments like this. Nobody is twisting your arm. If you don't want to use Yoshimi... then don't. However why do you think you need to try and dissuade anyone else from doing so? Do you know Yoshimi's roadmap? No of course you don't. I'd guess you don't even know what Yoshimi can currently do. While I intend to keep file compatibility with ZynAddSubFX as far as possible, we are going on a different ride - and I see no reason to reveal exactly what this is to such a hostile audience. As well as having the opportunity to take Yoshimi in directions I and friends want, I am learning a great deal about coding in the process. Therefore, even if I end up being the only person running it, I intend Yoshimi to stay around, at least as long as I do, so you'd best get used to the idea. P.S. You may be surprised to learn that I have on a number of occasions reported bugs in ZynAddSubFX to the devs with as much detail as I could, so in no way are they losing out. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 3 18:08:38 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 20:08:38 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] META list owner and terms of use In-Reply-To: <5406A759.6070008@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> <5406A759.6070008@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <1409767718.313.1.camel@rocketmail.com> On Tue, 2014-09-02 at 22:30 -0700, David Christensen wrote: > linux-audio-user: > > I don't see a list owner or a terms of use policy for this list on what > I presume are the appropriate pages: > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo > > > Who is the list owner? > > > What is the policy regarding personal attacks, etc.? > > > TIA, > > David David, how many emails of female Linux audio users did you noticed? There are a few, but Linux audio lists are usually dominated by mails from men. You shouldn't care about the my ... is bigger than yours mails. Too funny, in Germany's Ruhrgebiet "Stutenbissigkeit" ( http://www.dict.cc/?s=stutenbissigkeit ) is a female thingy, men don't behave like this here, but get used to it, on Linux mailing lists most of the times men behave like this. Get a thick skin and don't care about it. There wasn't an official serious attack against you. From falktx at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 18:23:56 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 19:23:56 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <20140903190620.49839224@debian> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> Message-ID: <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> On 09/03/2014 07:06 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:28:23 +0100 > Filipe Coelho wrote: > >> On 09/01/2014 12:21 AM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: >>> I am fascinated by Carla's ability to call ZASFX. How could this be >>> implemented for Yoshimi? Are there config files of some sort? >> There is no reason for this to happen. >> ZynAddSubFX is more stable nowadays than Yoshimi and being maintained by >> a very good developer. >> >> Very soon I'll be releasing a LV2+VST plugin version of Zyn (based on >> the last stable release). >> Latest Zyn dev/git version now has fully automable parameters, >> undo/redo, OSC and UI<->DSP de-coupling (no more using a super ugly >> master mutex). >> >> As much as you might want to use Yoshimi, it needs to be let go and >> development focused on Zyn instead. > You know, I'm beginning to get a little tired of comments like this. > > Nobody is twisting your arm. If you don't want to use Yoshimi... then don't. > However why do you think you need to try and dissuade anyone else from doing so? > Do you know Yoshimi's roadmap? No of course you don't. I'd guess you don't even > know what Yoshimi can currently do. > > While I intend to keep file compatibility with ZynAddSubFX as far as possible, > we are going on a different ride - and I see no reason to reveal exactly what > this is to such a hostile audience. > > As well as having the opportunity to take Yoshimi in directions I and friends > want, I am learning a great deal about coding in the process. Therefore, even if > I end up being the only person running it, I intend Yoshimi to stay around, at > least as long as I do, so you'd best get used to the idea. This is my thing with it. I'd rather have the full focus on Zyn instead of having 2 separate versions. Some stuff will end up in Yoshimi that Zyn will not have and vice-versa. With time the code will differ so much that changes can't be applied to one another. When Zyn did not have a maintainer Yoshimi seemed like the right thing, but this is no longer the case. From malnourite at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 18:57:05 2014 From: malnourite at gmail.com (J. Liles) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 11:57:05 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 12:04 AM, Nils wrote: > So the problem here, as I see it, is that Jack itself is not an NSM aware > client. > > My perception of NSM always was that it is not strictly bound to jack but > jack is another client. If jack would be a NSM client which supports switch > and saves it settings in the session folder you can save the samplerate > (and the connections, without a special program). > > On the other hand that binds a session to specific jack settings again, > which is bad. Are there any examples of NSM clients that deal with > system-specific settings? > > The problem is also in thinking of JACK as something *inside* a session. I don't think of it that way. Nor do I consider Xorg to be inside the session. JACK is external infrastrucutre. Having an NSM client that just persists JACK's buffer size and sample rate settings is certainly doable and anyone is welcome to write one--it would indeed be trivial. IMHO it would create more problems than it would solve though. For one thing, you'd have to make sure all the software you use can handle those changes at runtime. Barring that, NSM would need to have some degraded session mode where everything is killed/restarted upon switching and clients are restarted one-after-the-other in some defined sequence instead of in parallel (to ensure that the jack settings client does its work before any other clients are started). But, again, this is very regressive, and for what? To support one very strange workflow that is already supported just fine by dealing with it 'manually'. (when I go from recording to mixing I usually change the JACK buffer size... is NSM supposed to do this for me automatically? I don't see how or why it would). To me this is a non-issue. Same kind of stuff that comes up every time anything is discussed on LAD or LAU... People bring up all these supposedly show-stopping scenarios that in reality either doen't come up or don't matter. My oppinon is: it's not a problem until it's a problem. Let's concentrate on the real issues and leave the imaginary ones alone. > Nils > > > > On 03.09.2014 05:49, Filipe Coelho wrote: > >> On 09/02/2014 11:57 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: >> >>> I did not know that nsm supports live switching of sessions without >>> restarting clients, but in case you need to change the jack sample rate >>> you most likely can't do that anyway. >>> >> >> FYI: You can change sample rate on the fly (e.g. without stopping JACK) >> if you use JACK2 and switch-master. >> >> When this happens clients will receive buffer-size and sample-rate change >> callbacks. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux-audio-user mailing list >> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org >> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harryhaaren at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 19:27:11 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 20:27:11 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 7:57 PM, J. Liles wrote: > workflow that is already supported just fine by dealing > with it 'manually'. Yes, manually setting JACK before starting a session is the only and best solution that scales. As you mentioned, transporting a session to another machine would mean JACK's settings get borked: therefor this is *not* something NSM should worry about, or implement. > To me this is a non-issue. Pun intended? ;) > My oppinon is: it's not a problem until it's a problem. I'll agree: but I have to say from a users POV, I first misunderstood the complexity and the use-cases, that would suggest having JACK settings for each session would be useful. > Let's concentrate on the real issues and leave the imaginary ones alone. Yes: what will we prioritize? I think the .desktop feature to discover NSM capable apps is a very important one: removing the need for users to know the binary's name for programs is essential for good workflow. Pro-active: I've created a feature-request ticket on the NSM repo to discuss details of .desktop files and integration: https://github.com/original-male/non/issues/136 To a good outcome! -Harry www.openavproductions.com From fons at linuxaudio.org Wed Sep 3 19:44:55 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 19:44:55 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> Message-ID: <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 11:57:05AM -0700, J. Liles wrote: > The problem is also in thinking of JACK as something *inside* a session. I > don't think of it that way. Nor do I consider Xorg to be inside the > session. JACK is external infrastrucutre. I agree 100% with that. And not only Jack, even some apps may be considered infrastructure instead of being particular to a session. RE switching sample rates, I really wonder what's the point. If you switch between 48 and 96 kHz that will in most cases have some inpact on your HW as well: ADAT or MADI channels for example. So that will require manual intervention anyway, no session manager can do that for you. There is not point in switching between 48 adn 44.1 kHz, just use 48 kHz all the time. Even if you record a CD. And how many Linux Audio users are recording CDs anyway. Many sound cards are designed for optimal performance at 48 kHz, with 44.1 being some compromise. RE switching buffer sizes, if your system works reliably with some size, there is no reason to use a larger one. > To me this is a non-issue. Same kind of stuff that comes up every time > anything is discussed on LAD or LAU... People bring up all these supposedly > show-stopping scenarios that in reality either doen't come up or don't > matter. NSM is IMHO the only decent session manager because it *doesn't* try to do things it shouldn't, and does those that it should do the right way. I'd love to see *some* changes to it, but certainly not the ones discussed in this thread. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From csanchezgs at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 20:31:32 2014 From: csanchezgs at gmail.com (Carlos sanchiavedraz) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 22:31:32 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54051956.8010801@hawaii.rr.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404197B.9010207@hawaii.rr.com> <540504B2.40504@holgerdanske.com> <54051956.8010801@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: 2014-09-02 3:11 GMT+02:00 david : > On 09/01/2014 01:43 PM, David Christensen wrote: > >> On 09/01/2014 12:00 AM, david wrote: >> >>> Musix 3. Don't know how it fits any of your above criteria, but it does >>> work reasonably. >>> >> >> I don't speak Spanish. >> > > Neither do I (actually, ISTR that it's Portuguese), but they have many of > their pages in English and the ISO offers English as an option. > > Carlos Sanchiavedraz on this list is one of the people behind Musix. > > @David Christensen: Hi David. We have a list in english: https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/musix-users/ We're are a very modest group of people with few resources, but we put a lot of effort and passion to what we do, we would be pleased to give you support in all that we can. I'll try to sum up some points regarding Musix and all you've said you are interested in: - Musix has a a RT kernel compiled by the team (i386 for the moment, 64bits hopefully along the way) - Musix has been adding more and more languages support (main ones being Spanish, Portuguese, and English), we even had users that translated to russian (IIRC) - Musix 3 comes in a 2GB iso (for USB/DVD, we could release a CD version as in past versions), I use it in a 2GB USB stick and it has some free space yet once you've boot into it - We are glad that we still receiving good response and congratulations from users even given it was released time ago - You should be able to play/record/mix/jam/*.* in RT just OOTB even from a Live USB (just make sure you tweak Jackd to your machine, that is something just the user can do), with Ardour, Qtractor, Rakarrack, Jamin, Rosegarden... and many other already installed - I've been using Musix for so many years, and right now I'm in the thick of a project where I'm recording/mixing/mastering/*.* from a Musix 3.0.1 running Live from that 2GB USB, no more, no less, so at least something can be done for sure (you can use your inner HD on your machine drive if you need more space, as I do when doing recording sessions) http://musixdistro.wordpress.com/2014/03/13/musix-gnulinux-3-0-1-stable-released/ Last, but not least,please remember Musix is a 100% GNU/Linux free/libre distro (the project is listed in GNU free/libre distro list [1]), so check that your HW is supported with the live usb (our kernel is deblobed -> it has no privative drivers) Hope it helps. Greetings. @David Thanks (again) for mentioning the project [1]https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.html -- C. sanchiavedraZ: * NEW / NUEVO: www.sanchiavedraZ.com * Musix GNU+Linux: www.musix.es -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 3 20:32:25 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 22:32:25 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> > On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 11:57:05AM -0700, J. Liles wrote: > > Nor do I consider Xorg to be inside the session. I use scripts to store and restore my sessions. Perhaps X is unimportant, but some folks perhaps want that some apps open on another workspace/virtual desktop than other apps do. I even don't care about this, but IMO session managers can't provide what a user's script could provide. For example, jackd settings are very important, assumed you use an app as Qtractor. Qtractor does move audio recordings as good as it can (not really perfect) depending to the jackd latency, assumed you should change the latency, then your audio tracks and MIDI tracks would be out of sync. > The problem is also in thinking of JACK as something *inside* a > session. IOW an app as Qtractor with a "strange" latency compensation is unusable in combination with a session manager that doesn't care about jackd? Btw. I just read one mail, not the whole thread, but I'm very amused about this unworldly point of view. "NSM (Non session management) support." - http://qtractor.sourceforge.net/qtractor-index.html :D Am I missing something? From fons at linuxaudio.org Wed Sep 3 20:38:04 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 20:38:04 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 10:32:25PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I use scripts to store and restore my sessions. Perhaps X is > unimportant, but some folks perhaps want that some apps open on another > workspace/virtual desktop than other apps do. I even don't care about > this, but IMO session managers can't provide what a user's script could > provide. For example, jackd settings are very important, assumed you use > an app as Qtractor. Qtractor does move audio recordings as good as it > can (not really perfect) depending to the jackd latency, assumed you > should change the latency, then your audio tracks and MIDI tracks would > be out of sync. Which, if true, would only mean that Qtractor does its latency compensation the wrong way. Note the 'if true'. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 3 20:43:35 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 22:43:35 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 20:38 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 10:32:25PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > I use scripts to store and restore my sessions. Perhaps X is > > unimportant, but some folks perhaps want that some apps open on another > > workspace/virtual desktop than other apps do. I even don't care about > > this, but IMO session managers can't provide what a user's script could > > provide. For example, jackd settings are very important, assumed you use > > an app as Qtractor. Qtractor does move audio recordings as good as it > > can (not really perfect) depending to the jackd latency, assumed you > > should change the latency, then your audio tracks and MIDI tracks would > > be out of sync. > > Which, if true, would only mean that Qtractor does its latency > compensation the wrong way. Note the 'if true'. For the versions of Qtractor I used it is true. An issue for me, because I like to be able to use different latencies, at different work stages. I'm aware that Ardour's latency compensation is smarter. But IMO it's important, that Linux users who prefer session managers, at least get informed about such issues, what ever applications they use. From fons at linuxaudio.org Wed Sep 3 21:06:10 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 21:06:10 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 10:43:35PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 20:38 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > Which, if true, would only mean that Qtractor does its latency > > compensation the wrong way. Note the 'if true'. > > For the versions of Qtractor I used it is true. An issue for me, because > I like to be able to use different latencies, at different work stages. > I'm aware that Ardour's latency compensation is smarter. But IMO it's > important, that Linux users who prefer session managers, at least get > informed about such issues, what ever applications they use. There's nothing smart about it, it's not rocket science. If Li and Lo are the current input and output latencies, then * When recording a track, adjust the logical postion (the start offset relative to whatever the session uses as reference) of the data by Li. * When playing a track, adjust its logical position by Lo. This will do the right thing, even when period sizes etc. change. And a session manager should not try to compensate for design errors in applications. Once you start to do that, there is no end to the amount of misery you will cause. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From murks at tuxfamily.org Wed Sep 3 21:08:03 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 23:08:03 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> Message-ID: <20140903230803.3f77663c@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 20:27:11 +0100 Harry van Haaren wrote: > On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 7:57 PM, J. Liles wrote: > > workflow that is already supported just fine by dealing > > with it 'manually'. > Yes, manually setting JACK before starting a session is the only and > best solution that scales. As you mentioned, transporting a session > to another machine would mean JACK's settings get borked: therefor > this is *not* something NSM should worry about, or implement. I completely disagree. Moving the session from one machine to another may be one use case, but a rather special one. At least it's not something I would do. On the other hand, remembering which jack settings are required for which session is something that NSM should remember for me. And given that I proposed the jackstart client as an optional client, something you can use or not use, same as jackconnect, your argument falls flat on its face since you could just not use the jackstart client and still handle jack manually. You would also not need to start all clients in a pre-defined order, you'd just need to make sure that jackstart starts before all others. And be honest about one point: How many clients manage to 'live switch'? I guess that most don't. Even if they do, what's the cost? A few seconds at session switch time at most, which is completely negligible IMHO. I know that for you this is a feature that is important because other session management systems don't do it, but I seriously doubt that it matters for any other reason. Regards, Philipp From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Wed Sep 3 21:14:45 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:14:45 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404197B.9010207@hawaii.rr.com> <540504B2.40504@holgerdanske.com> <54051956.8010801@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <540784C5.7090900@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/03/2014 10:31 AM, Carlos sanchiavedraz wrote: > > > > 2014-09-02 3:11 GMT+02:00 david >: > > On 09/01/2014 01:43 PM, David Christensen wrote: > > On 09/01/2014 12:00 AM, david wrote: > > Musix 3. Don't know how it fits any of your above criteria, > but it does > work reasonably. > > > I don't speak Spanish. > > > Neither do I (actually, ISTR that it's Portuguese), but they have > many of their pages in English and the ISO offers English as an option. > > Carlos Sanchiavedraz on this list is one of the people behind Musix. > > > @David Christensen: > > Hi David. We have a list in english: > https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/options/musix-users/ Cool, will have to go join that. > - I've been using Musix for so many years, and right now I'm in the > thick of a project where I'm recording/mixing/mastering/*.* from a Musix > 3.0.1 running Live from that 2GB USB, no more, no less, so at least > something can be done for sure (you can use your inner HD on your > machine drive if you need more space, as I do when doing recording sessions) > http://musixdistro.wordpress.com/2014/03/13/musix-gnulinux-3-0-1-stable-released/ Hurrah! Downloading right now. :) > @David > Thanks (again) for mentioning the project Thanks for Musix! -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 3 21:17:35 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 23:17:35 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 21:06 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 10:43:35PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 20:38 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > > > > Which, if true, would only mean that Qtractor does its latency > > > compensation the wrong way. Note the 'if true'. > > > > For the versions of Qtractor I used it is true. An issue for me, because > > I like to be able to use different latencies, at different work stages. > > I'm aware that Ardour's latency compensation is smarter. But IMO it's > > important, that Linux users who prefer session managers, at least get > > informed about such issues, what ever applications they use. > > There's nothing smart about it, it's not rocket science. > > If Li and Lo are the current input and output latencies, then > > * When recording a track, adjust the logical postion (the start offset > relative to whatever the session uses as reference) of the data by Li. > * When playing a track, adjust its logical position by Lo. > > This will do the right thing, even when period sizes etc. change. > > And a session manager should not try to compensate for design errors > in applications. Once you start to do that, there is no end to the > amount of misery you will cause. > > Ciao, Rui likely should know more about Qtractor's current abilities, than I do. OT: Jimi Hendrix's post death release of The Cry of Love IMO used much un-synced tape affects and I bet a lot of amateur audio engineers nowadays use the pan pot to emulate funny phasing panning effects. I suspect nowadays sync anyway is out of stile. At least lip-sync died out. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Wed Sep 3 21:25:03 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:25:03 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/03/2014 08:23 AM, Filipe Coelho wrote: > On 09/03/2014 07:06 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: >> On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:28:23 +0100 >> Filipe Coelho wrote: >> >>> On 09/01/2014 12:21 AM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: >>>> I am fascinated by Carla's ability to call ZASFX. How could this be >>>> implemented for Yoshimi? Are there config files of some sort? >>> There is no reason for this to happen. >>> ZynAddSubFX is more stable nowadays than Yoshimi and being maintained by >>> a very good developer. >>> >>> Very soon I'll be releasing a LV2+VST plugin version of Zyn (based on >>> the last stable release). >>> Latest Zyn dev/git version now has fully automable parameters, >>> undo/redo, OSC and UI<->DSP de-coupling (no more using a super ugly >>> master mutex). >>> >>> As much as you might want to use Yoshimi, it needs to be let go and >>> development focused on Zyn instead. >> You know, I'm beginning to get a little tired of comments like this. >> >> Nobody is twisting your arm. If you don't want to use Yoshimi... then >> don't. >> However why do you think you need to try and dissuade anyone else from >> doing so? >> Do you know Yoshimi's roadmap? No of course you don't. I'd guess you >> don't even >> know what Yoshimi can currently do. >> >> While I intend to keep file compatibility with ZynAddSubFX as far as >> possible, >> we are going on a different ride - and I see no reason to reveal >> exactly what >> this is to such a hostile audience. >> >> As well as having the opportunity to take Yoshimi in directions I and >> friends >> want, I am learning a great deal about coding in the process. >> Therefore, even if >> I end up being the only person running it, I intend Yoshimi to stay >> around, at >> least as long as I do, so you'd best get used to the idea. > > This is my thing with it. I'd rather have the full focus on Zyn instead > of having 2 separate versions. > Some stuff will end up in Yoshimi that Zyn will not have and vice-versa. > > With time the code will differ so much that changes can't be applied to > one another. > > When Zyn did not have a maintainer Yoshimi seemed like the right thing, > but this is no longer the case. As far as I know, Zyn has NEVER been without a maintainer. Where'd you get that idea? My experience with Zyn is freezes when running at low latencies. On the same hardware running with the same settings, Yoshimi doesn't. My experience with both Zyn and Yoshimi is that the UI sucks, with its little non-resizable hard-coded window giving almost illegible text on high-rez displays. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 3 21:28:39 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 23:28:39 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140903230803.3f77663c@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903230803.3f77663c@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <1409779719.1580.1.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 23:08 +0200, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > I completely disagree. Moving the session from one machine to another > may be one use case, but a rather special one. At least it's not > something I would do. > On the other hand, remembering which jack settings are required for > which session is something that NSM should remember for me. Why? Because your hardware is limited? Or for the reason I mentioned, that applications, at least older versions of Qtractor had no or a at least an un-perfect latency compensation? That's one issue caused by session managers and one reason I use scripts. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 3 21:33:07 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 23:33:07 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409779719.1580.1.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903230803.3f77663c@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1409779719.1580.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1409779987.1580.3.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 23:28 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 23:08 +0200, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > > I completely disagree. Moving the session from one machine to another > > may be one use case, but a rather special one. At least it's not > > something I would do. > > On the other hand, remembering which jack settings are required for > > which session is something that NSM should remember for me. > > Why? Because your hardware is limited? Or for the reason I mentioned, > that applications, at least older versions of Qtractor had no or a at > least an un-perfect latency compensation? > > That's one issue caused by session managers and one reason I use > scripts. PS: Another sound card, other IOs, is another issue :D. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Wed Sep 3 21:36:46 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:36:46 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/03/2014 11:25 AM, david wrote: > On 09/03/2014 08:23 AM, Filipe Coelho wrote: >> On 09/03/2014 07:06 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: >>> On Wed, 03 Sep 2014 13:28:23 +0100 >>> Filipe Coelho wrote: >>> >>>> On 09/01/2014 12:21 AM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: >>>>> I am fascinated by Carla's ability to call ZASFX. How could this be >>>>> implemented for Yoshimi? Are there config files of some sort? >>>> There is no reason for this to happen. >>>> ZynAddSubFX is more stable nowadays than Yoshimi and being >>>> maintained by >>>> a very good developer. >>>> >>>> Very soon I'll be releasing a LV2+VST plugin version of Zyn (based on >>>> the last stable release). >>>> Latest Zyn dev/git version now has fully automable parameters, >>>> undo/redo, OSC and UI<->DSP de-coupling (no more using a super ugly >>>> master mutex). >>>> >>>> As much as you might want to use Yoshimi, it needs to be let go and >>>> development focused on Zyn instead. >>> You know, I'm beginning to get a little tired of comments like this. >>> >>> Nobody is twisting your arm. If you don't want to use Yoshimi... then >>> don't. >>> However why do you think you need to try and dissuade anyone else from >>> doing so? >>> Do you know Yoshimi's roadmap? No of course you don't. I'd guess you >>> don't even >>> know what Yoshimi can currently do. >>> >>> While I intend to keep file compatibility with ZynAddSubFX as far as >>> possible, >>> we are going on a different ride - and I see no reason to reveal >>> exactly what >>> this is to such a hostile audience. >>> >>> As well as having the opportunity to take Yoshimi in directions I and >>> friends >>> want, I am learning a great deal about coding in the process. >>> Therefore, even if >>> I end up being the only person running it, I intend Yoshimi to stay >>> around, at >>> least as long as I do, so you'd best get used to the idea. >> >> This is my thing with it. I'd rather have the full focus on Zyn instead >> of having 2 separate versions. >> Some stuff will end up in Yoshimi that Zyn will not have and vice-versa. >> >> With time the code will differ so much that changes can't be applied to >> one another. >> >> When Zyn did not have a maintainer Yoshimi seemed like the right thing, >> but this is no longer the case. > > As far as I know, Zyn has NEVER been without a maintainer. Where'd you > get that idea? > > My experience with Zyn is freezes when running at low latencies. On the > same hardware running with the same settings, Yoshimi doesn't. > > My experience with both Zyn and Yoshimi is that the UI sucks, with its > little non-resizable hard-coded window giving almost illegible text on > high-rez displays. My understanding is that requests to give Zyn a modern UI fall on deaf ears because it's the way the developer likes it. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From falktx at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 21:42:05 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 22:42:05 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> On 09/03/2014 10:36 PM, david wrote: > My understanding is that requests to give Zyn a modern UI fall on deaf > ears because it's the way the developer likes it. > Completely false. The current Zyn release already has had a small UI change by using NTK instead of FLTK. See http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/NtkPatches This has been merged a few months ago. There were also talks about doing a completely new UI. This concept so far is the most widely praised for this: http://budislavtvp.deviantart.com/art/ZynAddSubFX-UI-Concept-2014-455890191 The issue here is who is going to do all the work. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Wed Sep 3 21:48:11 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:48:11 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <54078C9B.3080204@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/03/2014 11:42 AM, Filipe Coelho wrote: > On 09/03/2014 10:36 PM, david wrote: >> My understanding is that requests to give Zyn a modern UI fall on deaf >> ears because it's the way the developer likes it. >> > > Completely false. That wasn't my experience when I mentioned it several years ago. Maybe things are getting better. > The current Zyn release already has had a small UI change by using NTK > instead of FLTK. > See http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/NtkPatches > This has been merged a few months ago. Hmm, OK, what version of Zyn has that? > There were also talks about doing a completely new UI. > This concept so far is the most widely praised for this: > http://budislavtvp.deviantart.com/art/ZynAddSubFX-UI-Concept-2014-455890191 Looks nice. Is the screen fully resizable, font size customizable, etc? With multi desktop environments, I can easily give Zyn/Yoshimi it's own full desktop. > The issue here is who is going to do all the work. The usual problem with all software! ;) -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From falktx at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 22:00:57 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 23:00:57 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <54078C9B.3080204@hawaii.rr.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> <54078C9B.3080204@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <54078F99.3000306@gmail.com> On 09/03/2014 10:48 PM, david wrote: > On 09/03/2014 11:42 AM, Filipe Coelho wrote: >> On 09/03/2014 10:36 PM, david wrote: >>> My understanding is that requests to give Zyn a modern UI fall on deaf >>> ears because it's the way the developer likes it. >>> >> >> Completely false. > > That wasn't my experience when I mentioned it several years ago. Maybe > things are getting better. My apologies then. I didn't come to Linux until somewhat recently (6 years?) Anyway, it was my impression that Zyn was unmaintained for a while and because of that Yoshimi was created. Then Zyn got a maintainer that was actively fixing things so the Yoshimi fork just doesn't seem as critical as before. Maybe I'm missing something here...? >> The current Zyn release already has had a small UI change by using NTK >> instead of FLTK. >> See http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/NtkPatches >> This has been merged a few months ago. > > Hmm, OK, what version of Zyn has that? The latest stable one has it at least. >> There were also talks about doing a completely new UI. >> This concept so far is the most widely praised for this: >> http://budislavtvp.deviantart.com/art/ZynAddSubFX-UI-Concept-2014-455890191 >> > > Looks nice. Is the screen fully resizable, font size customizable, > etc? With multi desktop environments, I can easily give Zyn/Yoshimi > it's own full desktop. I don't think having customizable options is the purpose of that UI. The author of that mockup designed a new layout for Zyn that would fit all the dialogs into a single window, which I find very nice. I'd implement that UI myself if I wasn't so busy with other projects... From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Wed Sep 3 22:09:43 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 12:09:43 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <54078F99.3000306@gmail.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> <54078C9B.3080204@hawaii.rr.com> <54078F99.3000306@gmail.com> Message-ID: <540791A7.8020100@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/03/2014 12:00 PM, Filipe Coelho wrote: > On 09/03/2014 10:48 PM, david wrote: >> On 09/03/2014 11:42 AM, Filipe Coelho wrote: >>> On 09/03/2014 10:36 PM, david wrote: >>>> My understanding is that requests to give Zyn a modern UI fall on deaf >>>> ears because it's the way the developer likes it. >>>> >>> >>> Completely false. >> >> That wasn't my experience when I mentioned it several years ago. Maybe >> things are getting better. > > My apologies then. > I didn't come to Linux until somewhat recently (6 years?) > > Anyway, it was my impression that Zyn was unmaintained for a while and > because of that Yoshimi was created. > Then Zyn got a maintainer that was actively fixing things so the Yoshimi > fork just doesn't seem as critical as before. > > Maybe I'm missing something here...? History. IIRC, Yoshimi happened because the Zyn and Yoshimi developers didn't agree on direction or features or something like that. No because Zyn wasn't being maintained. Besides, competition is good! >>> The current Zyn release already has had a small UI change by using NTK >>> instead of FLTK. >>> See http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/NtkPatches >>> This has been merged a few months ago. >> >> Hmm, OK, what version of Zyn has that? > > The latest stable one has it at least. Then it hasn't made any difference at the UI end. >>> There were also talks about doing a completely new UI. >>> This concept so far is the most widely praised for this: >>> http://budislavtvp.deviantart.com/art/ZynAddSubFX-UI-Concept-2014-455890191 >>> >> >> Looks nice. Is the screen fully resizable, font size customizable, >> etc? With multi desktop environments, I can easily give Zyn/Yoshimi >> it's own full desktop. > > I don't think having customizable options is the purpose of that UI. > The author of that mockup designed a new layout for Zyn that would fit > all the dialogs into a single window, which I find very nice. > I'd implement that UI myself if I wasn't so busy with other projects... If you're going to redesign the UI that much, you might as well address the biggest weakness of the whole thing - the insistence on a fixed size, small window in the first place. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From falktx at gmail.com Wed Sep 3 22:14:00 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 23:14:00 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <540791A7.8020100@hawaii.rr.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> <54078C9B.3080204@hawaii.rr.com> <54078F99.3000306@gmail.com> <540791A7.8020100@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <540792A8.4010907@gmail.com> > Then it hasn't made any difference at the UI end. You need to build it against NTK. There's a cmake build option for it. > If you're going to redesign the UI that much, you might as well > address the biggest weakness of the whole thing - the insistence on a > fixed size, small window in the first place. Well, for me this new UI makes Zyn much more usable. I know this is only my opinion though :) From rncbc at rncbc.org Wed Sep 3 22:15:25 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 23:15:25 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> On 09/03/2014 10:17 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 21:06 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: >> On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 10:43:35PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>> On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 20:38 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: >>> >>>> Which, if true, would only mean that Qtractor does its latency >>>> compensation the wrong way. Note the 'if true'. >>> >>> For the versions of Qtractor I used it is true. An issue for me, because >>> I like to be able to use different latencies, at different work stages. >>> I'm aware that Ardour's latency compensation is smarter. But IMO it's >>> important, that Linux users who prefer session managers, at least get >>> informed about such issues, what ever applications they use. >> >> There's nothing smart about it, it's not rocket science. >> >> If Li and Lo are the current input and output latencies, then >> >> * When recording a track, adjust the logical postion (the start offset >> relative to whatever the session uses as reference) of the data by Li. >> * When playing a track, adjust its logical position by Lo. >> >> This will do the right thing, even when period sizes etc. change. >> >> And a session manager should not try to compensate for design errors >> in applications. Once you start to do that, there is no end to the >> amount of misery you will cause. >> >> Ciao, > > Rui likely should know more about Qtractor's current abilities, than I > do. > qtractor does try to adjust the so called logical position or start offset by Li as Fons explained; the Li (input latency) value is the one given by jack_port_get_latency_range() at the time capture/recording takes place; the actual offset is however quantized/rounded to MIDI resolution (in ticks per quarter-note or beat)--this fact alone might add to its "strangeness" i guess. cheers -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc at rncbc.org From fons at linuxaudio.org Wed Sep 3 22:19:45 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 22:19:45 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> References: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 11:15:25PM +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > qtractor does try to adjust the so called logical position or start > offset by Li as Fons explained; the Li (input latency) value is the > one given by jack_port_get_latency_range() at the time > capture/recording takes place; the actual offset is however > quantized/rounded to MIDI resolution (in ticks per quarter-note or > beat)--this fact alone might add to its "strangeness" i guess. Why do that ? There's really no reason for it. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From malnourite at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 00:27:11 2014 From: malnourite at gmail.com (J. Liles) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 17:27:11 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140903230803.3f77663c@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903230803.3f77663c@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 20:27:11 +0100 > Harry van Haaren wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 7:57 PM, J. Liles wrote: > > > workflow that is already supported just fine by dealing > > > with it 'manually'. > > Yes, manually setting JACK before starting a session is the only and > > best solution that scales. As you mentioned, transporting a session > > to another machine would mean JACK's settings get borked: therefor > > this is *not* something NSM should worry about, or implement. > > I completely disagree. Moving the session from one machine to another > may be one use case, but a rather special one. At least it's not > something I would do. > On the other hand, remembering which jack settings are required for > which session is something that NSM should remember for me. > And given that I proposed the jackstart client as an optional client, > something you can use or not use, same as jackconnect, your argument > falls flat on its face since you could just not use the jackstart > client and still handle jack manually. > > You would also not need to start all clients in a pre-defined order, > you'd just need to make sure that jackstart starts before all others. > The complexity isn't much less if it's only one client. And then NSM needs to know to treat that client specially... > > And be honest about one point: How many clients manage to 'live > switch'? I guess that most don't. Even if they do, what's the cost? A > few seconds at session switch time at most, which is completely > negligible IMHO. I know that for you this is a feature that is > important because other session management systems don't do it, but I > seriously doubt that it matters for any other reason. > You can lead a horse to water... People said the same thing about kernel suspend to RAM/disk. Yes, it took a while to get everything working and there are still some drivers that don't cooperate, but once you've seen the light you won't want to go back to rebooting ever again. Seems like the dark ages now. > > Regards, > Philipp > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Thu Sep 4 00:27:54 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 17:27:54 -0700 Subject: [LAU] META list owner and terms of use In-Reply-To: <5406DC89.20500@autostatic.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> <5406A759.6070008@holgerdanske.com> <5406DC89.20500@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <5407B20A.5050302@holgerdanske.com> On 09/03/2014 02:16 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > There is no real list owner, it's a community driven mailing list. > There is no policy. But the list admins can take action if they deem it > necessary. Okay. Thank you for the reply. David From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Thu Sep 4 00:39:01 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 17:39:01 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5407B4A5.1060403@holgerdanske.com> On 09/03/2014 04:22 AM, Adam Sampson wrote: > You're probably best off just dropping the aufs patch -- it's useful for > things like live CDs (because it lets you overlay a read-only FS with a > writable one, and similar tricks), but you're pretty unlikely to need it > on a conventional machine. The Debian userspace certainly doesn't > require it; I don't patch it into the kernels I build. I applied the patch as follows: # cd /usr/src # tar -xJf linux-source-3.14.tar.xz # unxz linux-patch-3.14-rt.patch.xz # cd linux-source-3.14/ # patch -p1 < ../linux-patch-3.14-rt.patch I understood that usage of the patch file was an all-or-nothing affair. Skimming 'man patch', I don't a way to exclude portions. Do I edit the patch file and delete things I don't want? How do you apply the realtime patch? David From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Thu Sep 4 00:53:20 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 17:53:20 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404197B.9010207@hawaii.rr.com> <540504B2.40504@holgerdanske.com> <54051956.8010801@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <5407B800.3030409@holgerdanske.com> On 09/03/2014 01:31 PM, Carlos sanchiavedraz wrote: > Hi David. Thank you for the information regarding Musix GNU+Linux. :-) An English mailing list would be helpful for me. Is there an English translation of what I presume is the project web site? https://musixdistro.wordpress.com/ Once the live image is running, how does the user change the language to English? David From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Thu Sep 4 01:02:55 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 18:02:55 -0700 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] META list owner and terms of use In-Reply-To: <1409745712.2283.10.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> <5406A759.6070008@holgerdanske.com> <1409745712.2283.10.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <5407BA3F.2070108@holgerdanske.com> On 09/03/2014 05:01 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Often it's a kindergarten, likely some folks lament about you too. Of course -- that's part of the reason why I asked. }:-> > MUAs usually have got filters ;). Yes. David From brummer- at web.de Thu Sep 4 03:12:00 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 05:12:00 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5407B4A5.1060403@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> <5407B4A5.1060403@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5407D880.1060603@web.de> Am 04.09.2014 02:39, schrieb David Christensen: > On 09/03/2014 04:22 AM, Adam Sampson wrote: >> You're probably best off just dropping the aufs patch -- it's useful for >> things like live CDs (because it lets you overlay a read-only FS with a >> writable one, and similar tricks), but you're pretty unlikely to need it >> on a conventional machine. The Debian userspace certainly doesn't >> require it; I don't patch it into the kernels I build. > > I applied the patch as follows: > > # cd /usr/src > > # tar -xJf linux-source-3.14.tar.xz > > # unxz linux-patch-3.14-rt.patch.xz > > # cd linux-source-3.14/ > > # patch -p1 < ../linux-patch-3.14-rt.patch > > > I understood that usage of the patch file was an all-or-nothing > affair. Skimming 'man patch', I don't a way to exclude portions. Do I > edit the patch file and delete things I don't want? > > > How do you apply the realtime patch? > > > David > The rt-patch is against the vanilla kernel source from kernel.org. https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/ From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Sep 4 05:36:33 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 19:36:33 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <540792A8.4010907@gmail.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> <54078C9B.3080204@hawaii.rr.com> <54078F99.3000306@gmail.com> <540791A7.8020100@hawaii.rr.com> <540792A8.4010907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5407FA61.6000609@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/03/2014 12:14 PM, Filipe Coelho wrote: >> Then it hasn't made any difference at the UI end. > > You need to build it against NTK. > There's a cmake build option for it. I have version 2.4.3 courtesy of Debian Sid. Is that the current stable version? Looks like it's built against FLTK. >> If you're going to redesign the UI that much, you might as well >> address the biggest weakness of the whole thing - the insistence on a >> fixed size, small window in the first place. > > Well, for me this new UI makes Zyn much more usable. > I know this is only my opinion though :) If it's still stuck with a tiny little non-resizable window with squint-eye text that gives birth to similar other windows, that might have made sense when a 640x480 color display was "high-end." Doesn't make any sense now. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From brummer- at web.de Thu Sep 4 05:58:09 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 07:58:09 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5407FF71.3050606@web.de> Am 03.09.2014 23:42, schrieb Filipe Coelho: > On 09/03/2014 10:36 PM, david wrote: >> My understanding is that requests to give Zyn a modern UI fall on >> deaf ears because it's the way the developer likes it. >> > > Completely false. > > The current Zyn release already has had a small UI change by using NTK > instead of FLTK. > See http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/NtkPatches > This has been merged a few months ago. > > There were also talks about doing a completely new UI. > This concept so far is the most widely praised for this: > http://budislavtvp.deviantart.com/art/ZynAddSubFX-UI-Concept-2014-455890191 > > > The issue here is who is going to do all the work. > > _______________________________________________ I grateful notice that the guitarix knobs which are used (without permission/credits of/to the original author Pete Shorthose) in the screen-shoot above be already removed/replaced by fundamental. So the current release will look more like this when build against NTK: http://a.fsdn.com/con/app/proj/zynaddsubfx/screenshots/B9wvVRM.png From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 06:20:45 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 08:20:45 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1409811645.1580.5.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 22:42 +0100, Filipe Coelho wrote: > http://non.tuxfamily.org/wiki/NtkPatches Black potentiometers on black background, the common idiot fashion. The turned off options are shadowed, dark gray font on black background, so you need to enable it, before you can read it. IOW Zyn isn't intended for visually impaired people or for usage on stage, when a spotlight is in competition with the monitor, it's intended to become another Linux toy, that is unusable for serious audio work. Congratulations! Apps should use the DE's/WM's theme, if they don't do it, they should provide a sane GUI, for the black is beautiful folks, at least do it similar to this: http://kokkinizita.linuxaudio.org/linuxaudio/zita-rev1-doc/zita-rev1.png For serious usage contrast is needed. If you make the background not completely black and you use colours for the potentiometers it's ok. For some apps it's useful to provide their own themes, e.g. for Ardour, but for simple GUIs, it's better to use the user's theme or at least thinking about the design. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 06:30:11 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 08:30:11 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <54078C9B.3080204@hawaii.rr.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> <54078C9B.3080204@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <1409812211.1580.7.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 11:48 -1000, david wrote: > > There were also talks about doing a completely new UI. > > This concept so far is the most widely praised for this: > > > http://budislavtvp.deviantart.com/art/ZynAddSubFX-UI-Concept-2014-455890191 > > Looks nice. Is the screen fully resizable, font size customizable, > etc? It's as disgusting as the other GUI, it's a toy design, you won't see any professional audio gear that does look like this. There's a lot of black gear, but it has got contrast and since real gear isn't virtually, you can feel the knobs with your fingers, you can take a look from another visual angle, so even black on black could be ok for real gear. It can't harm to spend 2 or 3 hours to learn the basics of functional design. ?Form follows function? From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Sep 4 06:41:56 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 20:41:56 -1000 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <1409812211.1580.7.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> <54078C9B.3080204@hawaii.rr.com> <1409812211.1580.7.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <540809B4.5050104@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/03/2014 08:30 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 11:48 -1000, david wrote: >>> There were also talks about doing a completely new UI. >>> This concept so far is the most widely praised for this: >>> >> http://budislavtvp.deviantart.com/art/ZynAddSubFX-UI-Concept-2014-455890191 >> >> Looks nice. Is the screen fully resizable, font size customizable, >> etc? > > It's as disgusting as the other GUI, it's a toy design, you won't see > any professional audio gear that does look like this. There's a lot of > black gear, but it has got contrast and since real gear isn't virtually, > you can feel the knobs with your fingers, you can take a look from > another visual angle, so even black on black could be ok for real gear. > It can't harm to spend 2 or 3 hours to learn the basics of functional > design. ?Form follows function? Good reading: "The Design of Every Day Things". My Yamaha PSR keyboard has stenciled labels on medium gray metal. They use 2 different colors: black, and a light yellow. The light yellow is almost invisible against the gray. So more than 2-3 hours of learning on the part of Yamaha doesn't always enable them to hit the ball out of the park all the time. Fortunately, software is much more malleable! -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 06:54:38 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 08:54:38 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <540809B4.5050104@hawaii.rr.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> <54078C9B.3080204@hawaii.rr.com> <1409812211.1580.7.camel@rocketmail.com> <540809B4.5050104@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <1409813678.1580.9.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 20:41 -1000, david wrote: > On 09/03/2014 08:30 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > ?Form follows function? > > Good reading: "The Design of Every Day Things". > > My Yamaha PSR keyboard has stenciled labels on medium gray metal. They > use 2 different colors: black, and a light yellow. The light yellow is > almost invisible against the gray. So more than 2-3 hours of learning on > the part of Yamaha doesn't always enable them to hit the ball out of the > park all the time. Fortunately, software is much more malleable! :D I own a relatively aesthetic looking electric water jug, but you will burn your fingers, if you touch the handhold. A relatively ugly looking electric water jug, with a usable handhold IMO makes more sens. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 07:11:37 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 09:11:37 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <1409813678.1580.9.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> <54078C9B.3080204@hawaii.rr.com> <1409812211.1580.7.camel@rocketmail.com> <540809B4.5050104@hawaii.rr.com> <1409813678.1580.9.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1409814697.1580.11.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 08:54 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 20:41 -1000, david wrote: > > On 09/03/2014 08:30 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > ?Form follows function? > > > > Good reading: "The Design of Every Day Things". > > > > My Yamaha PSR keyboard has stenciled labels on medium gray metal. They > > use 2 different colors: black, and a light yellow. The light yellow is > > almost invisible against the gray. So more than 2-3 hours of learning on > > the part of Yamaha doesn't always enable them to hit the ball out of the > > park all the time. Fortunately, software is much more malleable! > > :D > > I own a relatively aesthetic looking electric water jug, but you will > burn your fingers, if you touch the handhold. A relatively ugly looking > electric water jug, with a usable handhold IMO makes more sens. After writing about the electric water jug I searched the web for "The Design of Every Day Things". https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/33/The_Design_of_Everyday_Things_%28cover_1988%29.jpg *lol* I guess I'll buy this book :). Thank you for he recommendation :). Regards, Ralf From federicogalland at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 07:25:40 2014 From: federicogalland at gmail.com (Federico Galland) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 04:25:40 -0300 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140904042540.7820cf114e23856ee7d9575e@gmail.com> > Latest Zyn dev/git version now has fully automable parameters, No need to worry about the interface so much anymore. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 07:27:36 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 09:27:36 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> References: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 22:19 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 11:15:25PM +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > > > qtractor does try to adjust the so called logical position or start > > offset by Li as Fons explained; the Li (input latency) value is the > > one given by jack_port_get_latency_range() at the time > > capture/recording takes place; the actual offset is however > > quantized/rounded to MIDI resolution (in ticks per quarter-note or > > beat)--this fact alone might add to its "strangeness" i guess. > > Why do that ? There's really no reason for it. Qtractor has got two weak points, audio tracks and the mixer, regarding to MIDI usability it IMO is the most satisfying Linux FLOSS sequencer. The sequencer has it's weak points too, ?Form follows function?, e.g. I don't want to use mixer automation to mute and un-mute MIDI clips. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 07:38:29 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 09:38:29 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> Rui: > this fact alone might add to its "strangeness" i guess Yes, that is strange, I don't care about NSM, but I care about the vague sync I get even if I stay with a jackd latency setting. Rounding is not ok and btw. I want to be able to change the jackd latency without moving clips. That the position of audio tracks is rounded to the MIDI resolution, even if I move them manually is another issue. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Sep 4 08:41:36 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 22:41:36 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <1409814697.1580.11.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> <54078C9B.3080204@hawaii.rr.com> <1409812211.1580.7.camel@rocketmail.com> <540809B4.5050104@hawaii.rr.com> <1409813678.1580.9.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409814697.1580.11.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <540825C0.3080101@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/03/2014 09:11 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 08:54 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 20:41 -1000, david wrote: >>> On 09/03/2014 08:30 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>>> ?Form follows function? >>> >>> Good reading: "The Design of Every Day Things". >>> >>> My Yamaha PSR keyboard has stenciled labels on medium gray metal. They >>> use 2 different colors: black, and a light yellow. The light yellow is >>> almost invisible against the gray. So more than 2-3 hours of learning on >>> the part of Yamaha doesn't always enable them to hit the ball out of the >>> park all the time. Fortunately, software is much more malleable! >> >> :D >> >> I own a relatively aesthetic looking electric water jug, but you will >> burn your fingers, if you touch the handhold. A relatively ugly looking >> electric water jug, with a usable handhold IMO makes more sens. > > After writing about the electric water jug I searched the web for "The > Design of Every Day Things". > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/33/The_Design_of_Everyday_Things_%28cover_1988%29.jpg > > *lol* > > I guess I'll buy this book :). > > Thank you for he recommendation :). You're welcome. I've had it in my personal library for ages, and it's been read a number of times. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Sep 4 08:47:33 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 22:47:33 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Yoshimi, in Carla? In-Reply-To: <1409813678.1580.9.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <2d97bbdbc1814b4f91973e687768365b@Ex13DAG10-N1.dataoncloud.net> <54070967.2060605@gmail.com> <20140903190620.49839224@debian> <54075CBC.1080901@gmail.com> <5407872F.5070605@hawaii.rr.com> <540789EE.10606@hawaii.rr.com> <54078B2D.1010300@gmail.com> <54078C9B.3080204@hawaii.rr.com> <1409812211.1580.7.camel@rocketmail.com> <540809B4.5050104@hawaii.rr.com> <1409813678.1580.9.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <54082725.4080209@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/03/2014 08:54 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 20:41 -1000, david wrote: >> On 09/03/2014 08:30 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>> ?Form follows function? >> >> Good reading: "The Design of Every Day Things". >> >> My Yamaha PSR keyboard has stenciled labels on medium gray metal. They >> use 2 different colors: black, and a light yellow. The light yellow is >> almost invisible against the gray. So more than 2-3 hours of learning on >> the part of Yamaha doesn't always enable them to hit the ball out of the >> park all the time. Fortunately, software is much more malleable! > > :D > > I own a relatively aesthetic looking electric water jug, but you will > burn your fingers, if you touch the handhold. A relatively ugly looking > electric water jug, with a usable handhold IMO makes more sens. "It probably won an award." For something unusable that designers love. Don't remember at the moment if that came from TDoEDT or from Jakob Nielsen. Sounds more like the book's tone than Jakob's. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From murks at tuxfamily.org Thu Sep 4 08:50:14 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 10:50:14 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903230803.3f77663c@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140904105014.0d6a74d8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 17:27:11 -0700 "J. Liles" wrote: > On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 2:08 PM, Philipp ?berbacher > wrote: > > > On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 20:27:11 +0100 > > Harry van Haaren wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 7:57 PM, J. Liles > > > wrote: > > > > workflow that is already supported just fine by dealing > > > > with it 'manually'. > > > Yes, manually setting JACK before starting a session is the only > > > and best solution that scales. As you mentioned, transporting a > > > session to another machine would mean JACK's settings get borked: > > > therefor this is *not* something NSM should worry about, or > > > implement. > > > > I completely disagree. Moving the session from one machine to > > another may be one use case, but a rather special one. At least > > it's not something I would do. > > On the other hand, remembering which jack settings are required for > > which session is something that NSM should remember for me. > > And given that I proposed the jackstart client as an optional > > client, something you can use or not use, same as jackconnect, your > > argument falls flat on its face since you could just not use the > > jackstart client and still handle jack manually. > > > > You would also not need to start all clients in a pre-defined order, > > you'd just need to make sure that jackstart starts before all > > others. > > > > The complexity isn't much less if it's only one client. And then NSM > needs to know to treat that client specially... That part was clear pretty much from the start, as you can see from the discussion between Harry and me. > > And be honest about one point: How many clients manage to 'live > > switch'? I guess that most don't. Even if they do, what's the cost? > > A few seconds at session switch time at most, which is completely > > negligible IMHO. I know that for you this is a feature that is > > important because other session management systems don't do it, but > > I seriously doubt that it matters for any other reason. > > > > You can lead a horse to water... Ad hominem. > People said the same thing about kernel suspend to RAM/disk. Yes, it > took a while to get everything working and there are still some > drivers that don't cooperate, but once you've seen the light you > won't want to go back to rebooting ever again. Seems like the dark > ages now. You can keep this red herring. I've made my suggestions with the goal to improve the user experience of nsm, take the or leave them. Regards, Philipp From harryhaaren at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 09:34:18 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 10:34:18 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140904105014.0d6a74d8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902235010.1945d118@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903230803.3f77663c@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140904105014.0d6a74d8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: Taking this thread back to its topic: please use new topics for discussion of OT. On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:50 AM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > I've made my suggestions with the goal to improve the user experience of > nsm, take the or leave them. Thanks for the feedback; as a dev promoting NSM, we need more user input as to use cases and workflow issues. You've been helpful, and I value your input. I've created a feature-request for an "official" NSM .desktop file, that programs can announce thier NSM capability. I'd like feedback, and if the this seems a good proposal, lets give this a green light, and start adding the functionality to .desktop files and NSM. https://github.com/original-male/non/issues/136 Cheers, -Harry www.openavproductions.com From cbannister at slingshot.co.nz Thu Sep 4 11:51:03 2014 From: cbannister at slingshot.co.nz (Chris Bannister) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 23:51:03 +1200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140904105014.0d6a74d8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140903005745.0361e4a8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903230803.3f77663c@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140904105014.0d6a74d8@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140904115103.GD5824@tal> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 10:50:14AM +0200, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Wed, 3 Sep 2014 17:27:11 -0700 > "J. Liles" wrote: > > > > You can lead a horse to water... > > Ad hominem. Sorry to butt in here, but JFTR, that is *NOT* an Ad hominem argument/attack. -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X From hanswil at notam02.no Thu Sep 4 12:55:54 2014 From: hanswil at notam02.no (Hans Wilmers) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 14:55:54 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Successor/replacement for RME HDSP+Multiface? In-Reply-To: <87d2be8nb3.fsf@bek.no> References: <20140827143830.GA7320@aol.com> <53FE29BE.7080809@notam02.no> <20140827192354.GD7320@aol.com> <53FE3864.3090503@notam02.no> <87d2be8nb3.fsf@bek.no> Message-ID: <5408615A.8020701@notam02.no> On 09/02/2014 10:00 AM, anders.vinjar at bek.no wrote: > > The UFX provides 22 ch. I/O in CC mode. > > No matrix or hw-mixer. You do get a single 'Speaker' slider in the > alsamixer, not sure what it does though. > > -anders > I just did some testing with the UFX. I normally do not need specially low latency, so others may achieve other (probably better) results: With jack setup for 8ms latency, 22 channels duplex, I get lots of xruns immediately. DSP load goes to the roof. With jack setup for 16ms (3 periods of 256 frames), 22 channels duplex, I can record all 22 channels without xruns so far (30 minutes). DSP load stays well under 20%. / Hans -- Hans Wilmers NOTAM Sandakerveien 24 D, Bygg F3 N-0473 Oslo Norway tlf: +47 2235 8062 http://www.notam02.no From p8rpp at aol.com Thu Sep 4 13:03:55 2014 From: p8rpp at aol.com (Peter P.) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 09:03:55 -0400 Subject: [LAU] what is jackd "DSP load"? Blinking "RT" indicator? Message-ID: <20140904130354.GA28982@aol.com> Hi, after many years of wondering now and then I am curious what qjackctl's display of "DSP load" is supposed to mean? It must be some kind of CPU load, as there is no dedicated DSP in my computer, so is it the cpu load of the jackd process? Furthermore I wonder why the realtime "RT" indicator in qjackctl's window is blinking about every 2 seconds. I do have -rt enabled. Thank you for helping me to find answers to these things that are puzzling me since quite some time. best, P From brummer- at web.de Thu Sep 4 14:00:54 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 16:00:54 +0200 Subject: [LAU] what is jackd "DSP load"? Blinking "RT" indicator? In-Reply-To: <20140904130354.GA28982@aol.com> References: <20140904130354.GA28982@aol.com> Message-ID: <54087096.6010900@web.de> Am 04.09.2014 15:03, schrieb Peter P.: > Hi, > > after many years of wondering now and then I am curious what > qjackctl's display of "DSP load" is supposed to mean? > It must be some kind of CPU load, as there is no dedicated DSP in my > computer, so is it the cpu load of the jackd process? > Furthermore I wonder why the realtime "RT" indicator in qjackctl's > window is blinking about every 2 seconds. I do have -rt enabled. > > Thank you for helping me to find answers to these things that are > puzzling me since quite some time. > > best, P > _______________________________________________ > You could set the "RT" indicator to no-blinking in the setup widget in the 3. tab. DSP load mean the used CPU time before jack close the current audio callback. From jhernberg at alchemy.lu Thu Sep 4 14:09:18 2014 From: jhernberg at alchemy.lu (Joakim Hernberg) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 16:09:18 +0200 Subject: [LAU] what is jackd "DSP load"? Blinking "RT" indicator? In-Reply-To: <20140904130354.GA28982@aol.com> References: <20140904130354.GA28982@aol.com> Message-ID: <20140904160918.4b0c96d1@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> On Thu, 4 Sep 2014 09:03:55 -0400 "Peter P." wrote: > after many years of wondering now and then I am curious what > qjackctl's display of "DSP load" is supposed to mean? > It must be some kind of CPU load, as there is no dedicated DSP in my > computer, so is it the cpu load of the jackd process? > Furthermore I wonder why the realtime "RT" indicator in qjackctl's > window is blinking about every 2 seconds. I do have -rt enabled. qjackctl's "DSP load" refers to how much of the latency given by samplerate and buffersize has been used up by the audio processing callback. That is to say if you have 2.9ms to finish the audio processing, and the callback takes 1.45ms, then it will show 50%, if it takes 2.9ms then it will show 100%. Note that it's an average and not a maximum number, so conventional wisdom is to keep it under 60% or so, to avoid xruns (ymmw). The flashing RT just indicates that JACK is running in rt mode. -- Joakim From p8rpp at aol.com Thu Sep 4 14:21:37 2014 From: p8rpp at aol.com (Peter P.) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 10:21:37 -0400 Subject: [LAU] what is jackd "DSP load"? Blinking "RT" indicator? In-Reply-To: <20140904160918.4b0c96d1@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> References: <20140904130354.GA28982@aol.com> <20140904160918.4b0c96d1@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> Message-ID: <20140904142137.GB28982@aol.com> * Joakim Hernberg [2014-09-04 10:09]: > On Thu, 4 Sep 2014 09:03:55 -0400 > "Peter P." wrote: > > > after many years of wondering now and then I am curious what > > qjackctl's display of "DSP load" is supposed to mean? > > It must be some kind of CPU load, as there is no dedicated DSP in my > > computer, so is it the cpu load of the jackd process? > > Furthermore I wonder why the realtime "RT" indicator in qjackctl's > > window is blinking about every 2 seconds. I do have -rt enabled. > > qjackctl's "DSP load" refers to how much of the latency given by > samplerate and buffersize has been used up by the audio processing > callback. That is to say if you have 2.9ms to finish the audio > processing, and the callback takes 1.45ms, then it will > show 50%, if it takes 2.9ms then it will show 100%. Note that it's an > average and not a maximum number, so conventional wisdom is to keep it > under 60% or so, to avoid xruns (ymmw). > > The flashing RT just indicates that JACK is running in rt mode. Joakim, Hermann, thanks to both of you for these excellent answers! best, P From p8rpp at aol.com Thu Sep 4 14:24:09 2014 From: p8rpp at aol.com (Peter P.) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 10:24:09 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Disabling IRQ #19 In-Reply-To: <53A08DCE.80601@spectralbird.de> References: <20140617180655.GA19019@aol.com> <53A08DCE.80601@spectralbird.de> Message-ID: <20140904142408.GC28982@aol.com> (This is an update to an older thread) * Markus Seeber [2014-06-17 14:50]: > On 06/17/2014 08:06 PM, Peter P. wrote: > > Dear List, > > > > I have a strange and unreproducable error on my laptop, that halts the > > entire audio system randomly about once every three weeks. > > > > Jackd quits, with it all clients, and dmesg says: > > > > [21684.947293] irq 19: nobody cared (try booting with the "irqpoll"option) > > [21684.947303] Pid: 194, comm: irq/19-ehci_hcd Not tainted 3.2.0-4-rt-amd64 #1 Debian 3.2.54-2 > > [21684.947309] Call Trace: > > [21684.947327] [] ? __report_bad_irq+0x2c/0xb5 > > [21684.947336] [] ? note_interrupt+0x16f/0x1f2 > > [21684.947344] [] ? irq_thread_fn+0x32/0x32 > > [21684.947351] [] ? irq_thread_fn+0x32/0x32 > > [21684.947358] [] ? irq_thread+0x106/0x201 > > [21684.947367] [] ? irq_finalize_oneshot+0xb3/0xb3 > > [21684.947378] [] ? kthread+0x78/0x80 > > [21684.947385] [] ? get_parent_ip+0x9/0x1b > > [21684.947395] [] ? kernel_thread_helper+0x4/0x10 > > [21684.947405] [] ? rcu_read_unlock_sched_notrace+0x2a/0x2a > > [21684.947412] [] ? gs_change+0x13/0x13 > > [21684.947417] handlers: > > [21684.947429] [] irq_default_primary_handler threaded [] usb_hcd_irq > > [21684.947473] [] irq_default_primary_handler threaded [] ips_irq_handler > > [21684.947485] [] irq_default_primary_handler threaded [] snd_hdsp_interrupt > > [21684.947498] Disabling IRQ #19 > > [...] > You are not alone with this issue, > I tried to work around this on different hardware by turning off the > devices that share the IRQ in BIOS. I suppose that's not a good idea or > even impossible with the thermal subsystem, but it _seems_ to work on my > system. In my case there was (probably) a USB device causing problems, > but due to the dodgy nature of the problem, I could not reproduce it or > verify a working solution. > As a note, I was also using Kernel 3.2. maybe more recent Kernel > versions don't have this issue? Running 3.14-2-rt-amd64 on Debian here since a few weeks and the above exception did not occur so far (knock-on-wood) again. P From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Thu Sep 4 14:30:44 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 20:15:44 +0545 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <5407B800.3030409@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404197B.9010207@hawaii.rr.com> <540504B2.40504@holgerdanske.com> <54051956.8010801@hawaii.rr.com> <5407B800.3030409@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: On 04/09/14 06:38, David Christensen wrote: > On 09/03/2014 01:31 PM, Carlos sanchiavedraz wrote: >> Hi David. > > Thank you for the information regarding Musix GNU+Linux. :-) > > > An English mailing list would be helpful for me. > > > Is there an English translation of what I presume is the project web > site? > > https://musixdistro.wordpress.com/ > > > Once the live image is running, how does the user change the language > to English? > > > David > > _______________________________________________ > I'm confused!! A few posts ago you complained about other suggested distros being too big, which were smaller than this one, and now you seem to be happy to be trying this out even though it is about 10 times larger than you seemed to want to find a fully fledged audio distro. So if you're happy to download a 2GB Musix why not a 1.6GB KXStudio??? From rncbc at rncbc.org Thu Sep 4 14:34:57 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 15:34:57 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> On 2014-09-04 08:38, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Rui: >> this fact alone might add to its "strangeness" i guess > > Yes, that is strange, I don't care about NSM, but I care about the > vague > sync I get even if I stay with a jackd latency setting. Rounding is not > ok and btw. I want to be able to change the jackd latency without > moving > clips. That the position of audio tracks is rounded to the MIDI > resolution, even if I move them manually is another issue. > as said, automatic latency compensation in qtractors audio recording is a one-time settlement--it gets settled at the time you take the recording. nevermore it gets auto-adjusted later on, ie. the take offset value, as read from jack_port_get_latency*(), won't ever change thereafter. that means you're in charge to tweak it later if you please, by summoning the clip properties dialog and changing the offset value as you wish. rest assured that, in qtractor sequencer model, ever since its inception, all time locations do honor the midi/music metric scale resolution. that has been kind of an argument why i always posed qtractor as *not a DAW* but rather a *sequencer with (some) DAW features* ;) cheers -- rncbc aka. Rui Nuno Capela From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 14:49:42 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 16:49:42 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> References: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Hi Rui :) On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 15:34 +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > as said, automatic latency compensation in qtractors audio recording is > a one-time settlement--it gets settled at the time you take the > recording. nevermore it gets auto-adjusted later on, ie. the take offset > value, as read from jack_port_get_latency*(), won't ever change > thereafter. that means you're in charge to tweak it later if you please, > by summoning the clip properties dialog and changing the offset value as > you wish. IIUC NSM doesn't care about the jackd settings. When Qtractor also ignores the settings, expects that they are the same as when an audio track was recorded, then Qtractor _does not_ support NSM session management. I start my sessions by scripts and don't use a session manager and it seems that my decision to do so is good. > rest assured that, in qtractor sequencer model, ever since its > inception, all time locations do honor the midi/music metric scale > resolution. that has been kind of an argument why i always posed > qtractor as *not a DAW* but rather a *sequencer with (some) DAW > features* ;) Fair enough, so next time I'll increase the MIDI resolution, to be able to fix sync issues with audio tacks, while for MIDI I don't need a higher resolution. Regards, Ralf From brummer- at web.de Thu Sep 4 15:03:58 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 17:03:58 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <54087F5E.9080709@web.de> Am 04.09.2014 16:49, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > Hi Rui :) > > On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 15:34 +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: >> as said, automatic latency compensation in qtractors audio recording is >> a one-time settlement--it gets settled at the time you take the >> recording. nevermore it gets auto-adjusted later on, ie. the take offset >> value, as read from jack_port_get_latency*(), won't ever change >> thereafter. that means you're in charge to tweak it later if you please, >> by summoning the clip properties dialog and changing the offset value as >> you wish. > IIUC NSM doesn't care about the jackd settings. When Qtractor also > ignores the settings, expects that they are the same as when an audio > track was recorded, then Qtractor _does not_ support NSM session > management. I start my sessions by scripts and don't use a session > manager and it seems that my decision to do so is good. > > ______________________________ Your conclusions here are wrong. NSM didn't forward any jackd settings to the clients. So, how a client behave regarding the latency setting in jackd, have nothing to do with, if it support NSM or not. Also, your use of scripts didn't change that, so it isn't good or bad, it's simply just the way YOU do it. From federicogalland at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 15:20:20 2014 From: federicogalland at gmail.com (Federico Galland) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:20:20 -0300 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <20140904122020.50f134f5cfd075a6f9c8f043@gmail.com> Just wanted to point this out: http://www.dynebolic.org/ Though it doesn't fit the size criteria. Also: Debian+kxstudio repos works perfectly here. You can start with a mini.iso and add up. Of course, it won't be perfect. Nothing ever is. I do agree, however, with your thoughts on lightweightness. It'd be nice to have an audio distro whose goals include being as light as possible. But I highly doubt it'd fit in a 30MB iso. Maybe sub-300MB? It could include jackd, qtractor and some plugins. But that would mean duplicating the effort of avlinux and kxstudio. Perhaps one could use one such distro as a base, and build a light iso for older computers? Does anything alike exist? Does anybody else feel the necessity? It can't bother, certainly. From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Thu Sep 4 15:53:41 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 16:53:41 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Disabling IRQ #19 In-Reply-To: <20140904142408.GC28982@aol.com> References: <20140617180655.GA19019@aol.com> <53A08DCE.80601@spectralbird.de> <20140904142408.GC28982@aol.com> Message-ID: <20140904165341.6ba02bc3@debian> On Thu, 4 Sep 2014 10:24:09 -0400 "Peter P." wrote: > (This is an update to an older thread) > > * Markus Seeber [2014-06-17 14:50]: > > On 06/17/2014 08:06 PM, Peter P. wrote: > > > Dear List, > > > > > > I have a strange and unreproducable error on my laptop, that halts the > > > entire audio system randomly about once every three weeks. > > > > > > Jackd quits, with it all clients, and dmesg says: > > > > > > [21684.947293] irq 19: nobody cared (try booting with the "irqpoll"option) > > > [21684.947303] Pid: 194, comm: irq/19-ehci_hcd Not tainted 3.2.0-4-rt-amd64 #1 Debian 3.2.54-2 > > > [21684.947309] Call Trace: > > > [21684.947327] [] ? __report_bad_irq+0x2c/0xb5 > > > [21684.947336] [] ? note_interrupt+0x16f/0x1f2 > > > [21684.947344] [] ? irq_thread_fn+0x32/0x32 > > > [21684.947351] [] ? irq_thread_fn+0x32/0x32 > > > [21684.947358] [] ? irq_thread+0x106/0x201 > > > [21684.947367] [] ? irq_finalize_oneshot+0xb3/0xb3 > > > [21684.947378] [] ? kthread+0x78/0x80 > > > [21684.947385] [] ? get_parent_ip+0x9/0x1b > > > [21684.947395] [] ? kernel_thread_helper+0x4/0x10 > > > [21684.947405] [] ? rcu_read_unlock_sched_notrace+0x2a/0x2a > > > [21684.947412] [] ? gs_change+0x13/0x13 > > > [21684.947417] handlers: > > > [21684.947429] [] irq_default_primary_handler threaded [] usb_hcd_irq > > > [21684.947473] [] irq_default_primary_handler threaded [] ips_irq_handler > > > [21684.947485] [] irq_default_primary_handler threaded [] snd_hdsp_interrupt > > > [21684.947498] Disabling IRQ #19 > > > > [...] > > You are not alone with this issue, > > I tried to work around this on different hardware by turning off the > > devices that share the IRQ in BIOS. I suppose that's not a good idea or > > even impossible with the thermal subsystem, but it _seems_ to work on my > > system. In my case there was (probably) a USB device causing problems, > > but due to the dodgy nature of the problem, I could not reproduce it or > > verify a working solution. > > As a note, I was also using Kernel 3.2. maybe more recent Kernel > > versions don't have this issue? > Running 3.14-2-rt-amd64 on Debian here since a few weeks and the above > exception did not occur so far (knock-on-wood) again. > > P For what it's worth, I found Kernel 3.2 far less reliable than 3.1 in all sorts of ways, but can't seem to get 3.1 now from debian :( -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 17:23:28 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:23:28 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <54087F5E.9080709@web.de> References: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <54087F5E.9080709@web.de> Message-ID: <1409851408.5724.19.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 17:03 +0200, hermann meyer wrote: > Am 04.09.2014 16:49, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > > Hi Rui :) > > > > On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 15:34 +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > >> as said, automatic latency compensation in qtractors audio recording is > >> a one-time settlement--it gets settled at the time you take the > >> recording. nevermore it gets auto-adjusted later on, ie. the take offset > >> value, as read from jack_port_get_latency*(), won't ever change > >> thereafter. that means you're in charge to tweak it later if you please, > >> by summoning the clip properties dialog and changing the offset value as > >> you wish. > > IIUC NSM doesn't care about the jackd settings. When Qtractor also > > ignores the settings, expects that they are the same as when an audio > > track was recorded, then Qtractor _does not_ support NSM session > > management. I start my sessions by scripts and don't use a session > > manager and it seems that my decision to do so is good. > > > > ______________________________ > > Your conclusions here are wrong. NSM didn't forward any jackd settings > to the clients. So, how a client behave regarding the latency setting in > jackd, have nothing to do with, if it support NSM or not. > Also, your use of scripts didn't change that, so it isn't good or bad, > it's simply just the way YOU do it. The scripts start all apps, do all connections and at first jackd is started always using the same latency, so the sync of audio and MIDI tracks for Qtractor can't differ. NSM cares about this too? From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Thu Sep 4 17:24:22 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 23:09:22 +0545 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: On 04/09/14 20:34, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > IIUC NSM doesn't care about the jackd settings. When Qtractor also > ignores the settings, expects that they are the same as when an audio > track was recorded, then Qtractor _does not_ support NSM session > management. I start my sessions by scripts and don't use a session > manager and it seems that my decision to do so is good. Do you honestly not see how much of a fallacy that statement is? If not please mull it over for a moment, I'm sure it will come to you how two programs, both not controlling/listening to a third programs settings has absolutely nothing to do with their functioning together! Dale. From fons at linuxaudio.org Thu Sep 4 17:29:18 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 17:29:18 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> References: <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <20140904172918.GA21942@linuxaudio.org> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 03:34:57PM +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > as said, automatic latency compensation in qtractors audio recording > is a one-time settlement--it gets settled at the time you take the > recording. nevermore it gets auto-adjusted later on, ie. the take > offset value, as read from jack_port_get_latency*(), won't ever > change thereafter. that means you're in charge to tweak it later if > you please, by summoning the clip properties dialog and changing the > offset value as you wish. You only get correct latency compensation if you compensate both when recording (the samples are older than they appear), and when playing back (the samples will be output later). In both cases you need to apply the _current_ value (Li, resp. Lo). OTOH, there is never any need to store the offset. When recording, just apply it to the stored position and forget about it - the samples are now at their correct position (the one that corresponds to having no latency). > rest assured that, in qtractor sequencer model, ever since its > inception, all time locations do honor the midi/music metric scale > resolution. For audio tracks that makes no sense. Aligning the start of the track doesn't mean the content will be aligned, and that is what matters if you want to align everything to the MIDI timescale. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 17:33:58 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:33:58 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 23:09 +0545, Kazakore wrote: > On 04/09/14 20:34, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > IIUC NSM doesn't care about the jackd settings. When Qtractor also > > ignores the settings, expects that they are the same as when an audio > > track was recorded, then Qtractor _does not_ support NSM session > > management. I start my sessions by scripts and don't use a session > > manager and it seems that my decision to do so is good. > > Do you honestly not see how much of a fallacy that statement is? If not > please mull it over for a moment, I'm sure it will come to you how two > programs, both not controlling/listening to a third programs settings > has absolutely nothing to do with their functioning together! > > Dale. If jackd is started with settings that cause another latency, than the latency that was used, when an audio recording was done with Qtractor, then audio and MIDI tracks get out of sync. So jackd has to be started with the same latency. If the session manager shouldn't start jackd, the latency settings could be incorrect. From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Thu Sep 4 17:39:36 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 23:24:36 +0545 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: On 04/09/14 23:18, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 23:09 +0545, Kazakore wrote: >> On 04/09/14 20:34, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>> IIUC NSM doesn't care about the jackd settings. When Qtractor also >>> ignores the settings, expects that they are the same as when an audio >>> track was recorded, then Qtractor _does not_ support NSM session >>> management. I start my sessions by scripts and don't use a session >>> manager and it seems that my decision to do so is good. >> Do you honestly not see how much of a fallacy that statement is? If not >> please mull it over for a moment, I'm sure it will come to you how two >> programs, both not controlling/listening to a third programs settings >> has absolutely nothing to do with their functioning together! >> >> Dale. > If jackd is started with settings that cause another latency, than the > latency that was used, when an audio recording was done with Qtractor, > then audio and MIDI tracks get out of sync. So jackd has to be started > with the same latency. If the session manager shouldn't start jackd, the > latency settings could be incorrect. > > _______________________________________________ > And that has WHAT to do with NSM support? From fons at linuxaudio.org Thu Sep 4 17:42:29 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 17:42:29 +0000 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 07:33:58PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > If jackd is started with settings that cause another latency, than the > latency that was used, when an audio recording was done with Qtractor, > then audio and MIDI tracks get out of sync. So jackd has to be started > with the same latency. If the session manager shouldn't start jackd, the > latency settings could be incorrect. And that is a design error in Qtractor and has *nothing* to do with NSM. If latency compensation is implemented correctly (which is easy) there no need to remember any latency values in the session file. Which implies that a change of latency doesn't matter, see also my previous post. So please stop whining about this. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 17:48:30 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:48:30 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1409852910.5724.23.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 23:24 +0545, Kazakore wrote: > On 04/09/14 23:18, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 23:09 +0545, Kazakore wrote: > >> On 04/09/14 20:34, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >>> IIUC NSM doesn't care about the jackd settings. When Qtractor also > >>> ignores the settings, expects that they are the same as when an audio > >>> track was recorded, then Qtractor _does not_ support NSM session > >>> management. I start my sessions by scripts and don't use a session > >>> manager and it seems that my decision to do so is good. > >> Do you honestly not see how much of a fallacy that statement is? If not > >> please mull it over for a moment, I'm sure it will come to you how two > >> programs, both not controlling/listening to a third programs settings > >> has absolutely nothing to do with their functioning together! > >> > >> Dale. > > If jackd is started with settings that cause another latency, than the > > latency that was used, when an audio recording was done with Qtractor, > > then audio and MIDI tracks get out of sync. So jackd has to be started > > with the same latency. If the session manager shouldn't start jackd, the > > latency settings could be incorrect. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > And that has WHAT to do with NSM support? I start a script and my session is started as it is needed. $ ./start-script-song-foo jackd is started with the latency that is needed to get Qtractor's audio and MIDI tracks in sync. Assumed a session manager, e.g. NSM shouldn't restore the jackd latency, then the session isn't restored. If tracks aren't in sync, it's not a restored session. A simple question, is it possible to restore a Qtractor session using NSM, IOW is it guaranteed that jackd doesn't run with a wrong latency? From fons at linuxaudio.org Thu Sep 4 17:53:11 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 17:53:11 +0000 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409852910.5724.23.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852910.5724.23.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140904175311.GC21942@linuxaudio.org> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 07:48:30PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > A simple question, is it possible to restore a Qtractor session using > NSM, IOW is it guaranteed that jackd doesn't run with a wrong latency? That is irrelevant. If a recorder/player, sequencer, DAW, or whatever is doing its latency compensation as it should be done (which is probably simpler than whatever Qtractor is doing now), it DOES NOT MATTER if the latency values are the same or not. Please try to understand that, and stop whining. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 17:57:11 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:57:11 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 17:42 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 07:33:58PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > If jackd is started with settings that cause another latency, than the > > latency that was used, when an audio recording was done with Qtractor, > > then audio and MIDI tracks get out of sync. So jackd has to be started > > with the same latency. If the session manager shouldn't start jackd, the > > latency settings could be incorrect. > > And that is a design error in Qtractor and has *nothing* to do with NSM. > If latency compensation is implemented correctly (which is easy) there > no need to remember any latency values in the session file. Which implies > that a change of latency doesn't matter, see also my previous post. > > So please stop whining about this. You got me wrong! I only pointed out that "NSM (Non session management) support." - http://qtractor.sourceforge.net/qtractor-index.html Could cause issues, for those who understand it word by word. And who aren't aware that "An Audio/MIDI multi-track sequencer" - http://qtractor.sourceforge.net/qtractor-index.html has to be understand word by word. Audio tracks are just a bonus that isn't part of the complete concept. I never claimed that NSM is bad, I just pointed out that Qtractor offers features that aren't restored, by this session manager. Users should be warned! I don't need a warning, I'm using scripts! I don't lamment! I just want to help, that users once will be upset, because they misunderstood Qtractors NSM support. Ok? Regards, Ralf From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 17:58:45 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:58:45 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1409853525.5724.26.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 19:57 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 17:42 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 07:33:58PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > > > If jackd is started with settings that cause another latency, than the > > > latency that was used, when an audio recording was done with Qtractor, > > > then audio and MIDI tracks get out of sync. So jackd has to be started > > > with the same latency. If the session manager shouldn't start jackd, the > > > latency settings could be incorrect. > > > > And that is a design error in Qtractor and has *nothing* to do with NSM. > > If latency compensation is implemented correctly (which is easy) there > > no need to remember any latency values in the session file. Which implies > > that a change of latency doesn't matter, see also my previous post. > > > > So please stop whining about this. > > You got me wrong! I only pointed out that "NSM (Non session management) > support." - http://qtractor.sourceforge.net/qtractor-index.html Could > cause issues, for those who understand it word by word. And who aren't > aware that "An Audio/MIDI multi-track sequencer" - > http://qtractor.sourceforge.net/qtractor-index.html has to be understand > word by word. Audio tracks are just a bonus that isn't part of the > complete concept. > > I never claimed that NSM is bad, I just pointed out that Qtractor offers > features that aren't restored, by this session manager. Users should be > warned! I don't need a warning, I'm using scripts! I don't lamment! I > just want to help, that users once will be upset, because they ^ not ;) > misunderstood Qtractors NSM support. > > Ok? > > Regards, > Ralf From fons at linuxaudio.org Thu Sep 4 17:59:12 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 17:59:12 +0000 Subject: [LAU] what is jackd "DSP load"? Blinking "RT" indicator? In-Reply-To: <20140904160918.4b0c96d1@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> References: <20140904130354.GA28982@aol.com> <20140904160918.4b0c96d1@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> Message-ID: <20140904175912.GD21942@linuxaudio.org> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 04:09:18PM +0200, Joakim Hernberg wrote: > Note that it's an > average and not a maximum number, so conventional wisdom is to keep it > under 60% or so, to avoid xruns (ymmw). Last time I looked at that part of the Jack code it was the maximum over the last N periods (with N = 1000 or so). But things could have changed since then. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 18:04:51 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 20:04:51 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140904175311.GC21942@linuxaudio.org> References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852910.5724.23.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904175311.GC21942@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1409853891.5724.28.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 17:53 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 07:48:30PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > A simple question, is it possible to restore a Qtractor session using > > NSM, IOW is it guaranteed that jackd doesn't run with a wrong latency? > > That is irrelevant. > > If a recorder/player, sequencer, DAW, or whatever is doing its > latency compensation as it should be done (which is probably > simpler than whatever Qtractor is doing now), it DOES NOT MATTER > if the latency values are the same or not. > > Please try to understand that, and stop whining. Again, this isn't my point. I don't care about it, I'm not whining. My sessions are restored in another way. My intention is to point out, that a user can not simply use every application that claims to support NSM and expect to restore the session. At least users should add a note, in Qtractor's > File > Properties ... > Description, that jackd has to be started with x latency. That's all! From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Thu Sep 4 18:04:52 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 23:49:52 +0545 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140904175311.GC21942@linuxaudio.org> References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852910.5724.23.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904175311.GC21942@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: On 04/09/14 23:38, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 07:48:30PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >> A simple question, is it possible to restore a Qtractor session using >> NSM, IOW is it guaranteed that jackd doesn't run with a wrong latency? > That is irrelevant. > > If a recorder/player, sequencer, DAW, or whatever is doing its > latency compensation as it should be done (which is probably > simpler than whatever Qtractor is doing now), it DOES NOT MATTER > if the latency values are the same or not. > > Please try to understand that, and stop whining. > > Ciao, > From this brief discussion here it sounds possible that QTractor takes account of LIn on recording but never the LOut on playback, like it should do. This could quite accurately be described as a bug in QTractor but never a reason to say it is not compatible/supported by NSM! Especially when the setting you are complaining about NSM not controlling isn't part of QTractor itself but another program entirely (Jack) which isn't supported in that way. Of course I could be wrong about the LOut, only going on what I've read in this here thread... From fons at linuxaudio.org Thu Sep 4 18:07:34 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 18:07:34 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140904180734.GE21942@linuxaudio.org> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 07:57:11PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I never claimed that NSM is bad, I just pointed out that Qtractor offers > features that aren't restored, Since when is making invalid assumptions (that latency will be the same each time) 'offering a feature' ?? Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 18:13:57 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 20:13:57 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140904180734.GE21942@linuxaudio.org> References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904180734.GE21942@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <1409854437.5724.30.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 18:07 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 07:57:11PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > I never claimed that NSM is bad, I just pointed out that Qtractor offers > > features that aren't restored, > > Since when is making invalid assumptions (that latency will be the > same each time) 'offering a feature' ?? Let's stop it ;). Qtactor is a sequencer, not a DAW, but the feature is, that it provides audio tracks, that are handled in a "strange" way. _We_ are aware about it, somebody new to Linux audio usually isn't aware about it. _So_ Rui should add a note on the Qtractor page with a warning. From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Thu Sep 4 18:18:46 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 00:03:46 +0545 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409854437.5724.30.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904180734.GE21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409854437.5724.30.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: On 04/09/14 23:58, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 18:07 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote: >> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 07:57:11PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> >>> I never claimed that NSM is bad, I just pointed out that Qtractor offers >>> features that aren't restored, >> Since when is making invalid assumptions (that latency will be the >> same each time) 'offering a feature' ?? > Let's stop it ;). > > Qtactor is a sequencer, not a DAW, but the feature is, that it provides > audio tracks, that are handled in a "strange" way. > > _We_ are aware about it, somebody new to Linux audio usually isn't aware > about it. _So_ Rui should add a note on the Qtractor page with a > warning. > > _______________________________________________ I'm actually quite shocked you've been fully aware of this (for how long!?) and bring it up here as non-supported by NSM rather than file it as a bug report with QTractor! Although it sounds Rui is well aware of the limitations and happy to tell people to live with it as it's not designed to be a fully fledged DAW. Still a bug report, where people can comment and possibly even a patch be filed, would be far better than lamenting on a mailing list! Anyway I really must go to sleep now! I thought I was about to turn off the light around 2-3 hours ago! ;-) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 18:34:21 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 20:34:21 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904180734.GE21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409854437.5724.30.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1409855661.5724.32.camel@rocketmail.com> On Fri, 2014-09-05 at 00:03 +0545, Kazakore wrote: > Anyway I really must go to sleep now! I thought I was about to turn off > the light around 2-3 hours ago! ;-) That does excuse your rough tone of voice ;). I'm aware about the latency issue for a very long time and I reported the issue a very long time ago. Not in dependency with NSM. Qtactor in the beginning had no latency compensation, the "in so many ways strange" latency compensation was a step in the right direction ;), but it's far away from being satisfying. When Rui want's to focus options that are more important for him it's ok. I noticed the NSM ./. Qtractor thingy now and I pointed it out. Again, I don't use or test session mangers, I'm using scripts, with total contentment. I noticed the NSM thread, but again, I'm a session script guy, I wasn't lamenting, I just tried to point out an issue. Sleep tight :). (not ironical, I'm serious) Ralf From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 18:52:03 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 20:52:03 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Fwd: [Qtractor-devel] ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM] Message-ID: <1409856723.5724.37.camel@rocketmail.com> -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Ralf Mardorf To: qtractor-devel Subject: [Qtractor-devel] ;) Was - Re: [LAU] Session management with NSM Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 20:49:23 +0200 Mailer: Evolution 3.12.5 Rui :) please consider to automatically add to File > Properties ... > Description the jackd "in" and "out" reported latency ;). Since the MIDI resolution steps don't provide ms, frame information, a written note could help to fix sync problems, without using a calculator. (I don't need it, perhaps you could add an option to the preferences, to uncheck this feature ;) Regards, Ralf From malnourite at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 19:22:58 2014 From: malnourite at gmail.com (J. Liles) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:22:58 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904180734.GE21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409854437.5724.30.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: This thread has officially been Ralf'd. In conclusion: 1. Harry has created an enhancement request to use .desktop files to generate a list of available NSM capable applications. This is something I've had on my personal list for a while anyway--still haven't decided how it should look in the GUI (tab completion is no help to noobs and pros already know the client names). Maybe stand-alone launcher would be prudent. 2. Anyone who wants to create a client to persist jack settings is welcome to do so, and this doesn't require any changes to NSM. However, it is unlikely to work with sample rate changes. Lots of programs support runtime bufsize changes though, if that's what you're into. 3. Session switch is awesome and the more clients which support it the better. 4. When Ralf has problems, we all have problems. /thread -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.santamauro at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 19:41:20 2014 From: david.santamauro at gmail.com (David Santamauro) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 15:41:20 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904180734.GE21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409854437.5724.30.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <5408C060.8000302@gmail.com> On 9/4/2014 3:22 PM, J. Liles wrote: > This thread has officially been Ralf'd. that is funny. > 2. Anyone who wants to create a client to persist jack settings is > welcome to do so, and this doesn't require any changes to NSM. However, > it is unlikely to work with sample rate changes. Lots of programs > support runtime bufsize changes though, if that's what you're into. I would love to take a stab at this. Seems like something within my reach but if there is no option "start-before-others" or some priority client loading, this seems pointless. David From malnourite at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 19:46:45 2014 From: malnourite at gmail.com (J. Liles) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:46:45 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <5408C060.8000302@gmail.com> References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904180734.GE21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409854437.5724.30.camel@rocketmail.com> <5408C060.8000302@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:41 PM, David Santamauro wrote: > > On 9/4/2014 3:22 PM, J. Liles wrote: > >> This thread has officially been Ralf'd. >> > > that is funny. > > > 2. Anyone who wants to create a client to persist jack settings is >> welcome to do so, and this doesn't require any changes to NSM. However, >> it is unlikely to work with sample rate changes. Lots of programs >> support runtime bufsize changes though, if that's what you're into. >> > > I would love to take a stab at this. Seems like something within my reach > but if there is no option "start-before-others" or some priority client > loading, this seems pointless. > As long as no clients crash or otherwise freak out when you change the buffer size at runtime, then there's no need to enforce an order. The synchronization is only required in order to shutdown/restart JACK (which isn't necessary to change the buffer size) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.santamauro at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 19:58:06 2014 From: david.santamauro at gmail.com (David Santamauro) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 15:58:06 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904180734.GE21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409854437.5724.30.camel@rocketmail.com> <5408C060.8000302@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5408C44E.7020002@gmail.com> On 9/4/2014 3:46 PM, J. Liles wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:41 PM, David Santamauro > > wrote: > > 2. Anyone who wants to create a client to persist jack settings is > welcome to do so, and this doesn't require any changes to NSM. > However, > it is unlikely to work with sample rate changes. Lots of programs > support runtime bufsize changes though, if that's what you're into. > > > I would love to take a stab at this. Seems like something within my > reach but if there is no option "start-before-others" or some > priority client loading, this seems pointless. > > > As long as no clients crash or otherwise freak out when you change the > buffer size at runtime, then there's no need to enforce an order. The > synchronization is only required in order to shutdown/restart JACK > (which isn't necessary to change the buffer size) So then the assumption is that this "client" would only allow settings manipulation and not deal with starting/stopping jack at all. If so, then is there an exhaustive list of settings that can actually be changed without having to restart? I can't imagine one could change the device, e.g. without restarting. From malnourite at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 20:36:47 2014 From: malnourite at gmail.com (J. Liles) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 13:36:47 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <5408C44E.7020002@gmail.com> References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904180734.GE21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409854437.5724.30.camel@rocketmail.com> <5408C060.8000302@gmail.com> <5408C44E.7020002@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:58 PM, David Santamauro < david.santamauro at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 9/4/2014 3:46 PM, J. Liles wrote: > >> >> On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:41 PM, David Santamauro >> > wrote: >> >> 2. Anyone who wants to create a client to persist jack settings is >> welcome to do so, and this doesn't require any changes to NSM. >> However, >> it is unlikely to work with sample rate changes. Lots of programs >> support runtime bufsize changes though, if that's what you're >> into. >> >> >> I would love to take a stab at this. Seems like something within my >> reach but if there is no option "start-before-others" or some >> priority client loading, this seems pointless. >> >> >> As long as no clients crash or otherwise freak out when you change the >> buffer size at runtime, then there's no need to enforce an order. The >> synchronization is only required in order to shutdown/restart JACK >> (which isn't necessary to change the buffer size) >> > > So then the assumption is that this "client" would only allow settings > manipulation and not deal with starting/stopping jack at all. If so, then > is there an exhaustive list of settings that can actually be changed > without having to restart? > > I can't imagine one could change the device, e.g. without restarting. > Well, now we're getting back into all the reasons why JACK settings should not be part of a session in the first place. For example, suppose that you could change the device at runtime: Now you change sessions to one that uses a different device--and nothing works, because the client can't reach out into the physical world and plug your other interface into everything. The list you're looking for is here: http://jackaudio.org/files/docs/html/group__ServerControl.html As you can see, setting the buffer size and enabling/disabling freewheeling mode is basically the extent of it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rncbc at rncbc.org Thu Sep 4 21:05:44 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 22:05:44 +0100 Subject: [LAU] [Qtractor-devel] [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM] In-Reply-To: <1409862835.5724.49.camel@alice-dsl.net> References: <1409862835.5724.49.camel@alice-dsl.net> Message-ID: <5408D428.1060106@rncbc.org> On 09/04/2014 09:33 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > -------- Forwarded Message --------From: Ralf Mardorf > > To: qtractor-devel at lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Qtractor-devel] ; ) Was - Re: [LAU] Session management > with NSM > Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 22:31:15 +0200 > Mailer: Evolution 3.12.5 > > On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 21:27 +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: >> On 09/04/2014 07:49 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>> Rui :) >>> >>> please consider to automatically add to >>> >>> File > Properties ... > Description >>> >>> the jackd "in" and "out" reported latency ;). Since the MIDI resolution >>> steps don't provide ms, frame information, a written note could help to >>> fix sync problems, without using a calculator. >>> >>> (I don't need it, perhaps you could add an option to the preferences, to >>> uncheck this feature ;) >>> >> >> jack_lsp -l does report latency of every port >> >> byee > > It doesn't report the latency a session was recoded 2 years ago. > and why would that be interesting? qtractor does its "recording/input latency compensation" of audio c?ips *at the time* the audio material is captured, so that material gets aligned with the audio/MIDI content already in session and possibly being played back at the time of the recording. never again it gets adjusted no matter what jackd parameters change later, be that for worse or better. that's it. please understand that this is the only kind of latency compensation qtractor does and nothing else. nb. qtractor does NOT compensate for in-line output or plugin chain latency. never did and quite frankly it won't do so soon, i'm afraid. i really don't see how having distinct jackd i/o latency settings (buffer-size, periods, sample-rate) may lead to audio going out of sync to MIDI--if it does get out-of-sync anyway, it is probably because something else but latency compensation related, not to tell that session-management has nothing to do with either. cheers -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc at rncbc.org ps. if audio and MIDI get out of sync, timer type and/or resolution might be the top suspect. From falktx at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 21:06:29 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 22:06:29 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904180734.GE21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409854437.5724.30.camel@rocketmail.com> <5408C060.8000302@gmail.com> <5408C44E.7020002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5408D455.8050408@gmail.com> On 9/4/2014 3:46 PM, J. Liles wrote: > > Well, now we're getting back into all the reasons why JACK settings > should not be part of a session in the first place. For example, > suppose that you could change the device at runtime... I think this might be not understood yet, but JACK 2 *does* allows this. You can switch devices (or any jack settings) during runtime, without having to stop JACK. This is called "switch master". Because of this the buffer-size *and sample-rate* can change while JACK2 is running. In which case the respective callbacks are called. See https://github.com/jackaudio/jack2/blob/master/common/JackServer.cpp#L371 From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 4 21:34:27 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 23:34:27 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: [Qtractor-devel] [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM] In-Reply-To: <5408D428.1060106@rncbc.org> References: <1409862835.5724.49.camel@alice-dsl.net> <5408D428.1060106@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <1409866467.5724.53.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 22:05 +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > On 09/04/2014 09:33 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > -------- Forwarded Message --------From: Ralf Mardorf > > > > To: qtractor-devel at lists.sourceforge.net > > Subject: Re: [Qtractor-devel] ; ) Was - Re: [LAU] Session management > > with NSM > > Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 22:31:15 +0200 > > Mailer: Evolution 3.12.5 > > > > On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 21:27 +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > >> On 09/04/2014 07:49 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >>> Rui :) > >>> > >>> please consider to automatically add to > >>> > >>> File > Properties ... > Description > >>> > >>> the jackd "in" and "out" reported latency ;). Since the MIDI resolution > >>> steps don't provide ms, frame information, a written note could help to > >>> fix sync problems, without using a calculator. > >>> > >>> (I don't need it, perhaps you could add an option to the preferences, to > >>> uncheck this feature ;) > >>> > >> > >> jack_lsp -l does report latency of every port > >> > >> byee > > > > It doesn't report the latency a session was recoded 2 years ago. > > > > and why would that be interesting? > > qtractor does its "recording/input latency compensation" of audio c?ips > *at the time* the audio material is captured, so that material gets > aligned with the audio/MIDI content already in session and possibly > being played back at the time of the recording. never again it gets > adjusted no matter what jackd parameters change later, be that for worse > or better. that's it. > > please understand that this is the only kind of latency compensation > qtractor does and nothing else. nb. qtractor does NOT compensate for > in-line output or plugin chain latency. never did and quite frankly it > won't do so soon, i'm afraid. > > i really don't see how having distinct jackd i/o latency settings > (buffer-size, periods, sample-rate) may lead to audio going out of sync > to MIDI--if it does get out-of-sync anyway, it is probably because > something else but latency compensation related, not to tell that > session-management has nothing to do with either. This year You record an audio track with an I+O latency of 10.7 ms. Two year later you want to restore this session, but you don't remember the jackd settings you used. Originally audio and MIDI tracks were in sync, when you used 10.7 ms I+O latency. Within the years you got new hardware, you don't remember what latency you once used and starts jackd with a lower I+O latency. Nothing bad would happen for Ardour users, but a Qtractor user would run into sync issues. Am I mistaken? From rncbc at rncbc.org Thu Sep 4 22:11:27 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 23:11:27 +0100 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: [Qtractor-devel] [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM] In-Reply-To: <1409866467.5724.53.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1409862835.5724.49.camel@alice-dsl.net> <5408D428.1060106@rncbc.org> <1409866467.5724.53.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <5408E38F.9000909@rncbc.org> On 09/04/2014 10:34 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > This year You record an audio track with an I+O latency of 10.7 ms. > Two year later you want to restore this session, but you don't remember > the jackd settings you used. Originally audio and MIDI tracks were in > sync, when you used 10.7 ms I+O latency. Within the years you got new > hardware, you don't remember what latency you once used and starts jackd > with a lower I+O latency. Nothing bad would happen for Ardour users, but > a Qtractor user would run into sync issues. Am I mistaken? > i really don't get why it would have worse or better sync depending on jackd latency settings. please forgive me, but i don't see it directly related to the case of audio vs. midi sync... though, in the special case that comes to mind, iif the alsa-midi timer is slaved to a pcm sound-device, as against to the system or hires timer for instance, you probably will get it different whether running on disparate buffer-sizes, periods and/or sample-rates, that's for granted--well, if you change the sample-rate across sessions you will get prompted to convert into a brand new and different session anyhow ;) byee -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc at rncbc.org From malnourite at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 22:16:40 2014 From: malnourite at gmail.com (J. Liles) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 15:16:40 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <5408D455.8050408@gmail.com> References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904180734.GE21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409854437.5724.30.camel@rocketmail.com> <5408C060.8000302@gmail.com> <5408C44E.7020002@gmail.com> <5408D455.8050408@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Filipe Coelho wrote: > On 9/4/2014 3:46 PM, J. Liles wrote: > >> >> Well, now we're getting back into all the reasons why JACK settings >> should not be part of a session in the first place. For example, suppose >> that you could change the device at runtime... >> > > I think this might be not understood yet, but JACK 2 *does* allows this. > > You can switch devices (or any jack settings) during runtime, without > having to stop JACK. > This is called "switch master". > > Because of this the buffer-size *and sample-rate* can change while JACK2 > is running. > In which case the respective callbacks are called. > > See https://github.com/jackaudio/jack2/blob/master/common/ > JackServer.cpp#L371 > > Terrifying--I mean cool! :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.santamauro at gmail.com Thu Sep 4 22:40:13 2014 From: david.santamauro at gmail.com (David Santamauro) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 18:40:13 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409852038.5724.21.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904174229.GB21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409853431.5724.25.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140904180734.GE21942@linuxaudio.org> <1409854437.5724.30.camel@rocketmail.com> <5408C060.8000302@gmail.com> <5408C44E.7020002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5408EA4D.8090700@gmail.com> On 9/4/2014 4:36 PM, J. Liles wrote: > > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:58 PM, David Santamauro > > wrote: > > > > > On 9/4/2014 3:46 PM, J. Liles wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 12:41 PM, David Santamauro > > >> wrote: > > 2. Anyone who wants to create a client to persist jack > settings is > welcome to do so, and this doesn't require any changes > to NSM. > However, > it is unlikely to work with sample rate changes. Lots > of programs > support runtime bufsize changes though, if that's what > you're into. > > > I would love to take a stab at this. Seems like something > within my > reach but if there is no option "start-before-others" or some > priority client loading, this seems pointless. > > > As long as no clients crash or otherwise freak out when you > change the > buffer size at runtime, then there's no need to enforce an > order. The > synchronization is only required in order to shutdown/restart JACK > (which isn't necessary to change the buffer size) > > > So then the assumption is that this "client" would only allow > settings manipulation and not deal with starting/stopping jack at > all. If so, then is there an exhaustive list of settings that can > actually be changed without having to restart? > > I can't imagine one could change the device, e.g. without restarting. > > > Well, now we're getting back into all the reasons why JACK settings > should not be part of a session in the first place. For example, suppose > that you could change the device at runtime: Now you change sessions to > one that uses a different device--and nothing works, because the client > can't reach out into the physical world and plug your other interface > into everything. Just 1 use case (one of a few I have): - sound card {a} snaked to separate recording room - sound card {b} wired to local mixer, outboard synths and keyboards (for post recording/mixing enhancements effects etc.) Everything is already plugged in. No software reaching out of the box to reroute cables. ... but I really don't think beating this dead horse is worth it. > The list you're looking for is here: > > http://jackaudio.org/files/docs/html/group__ServerControl.html thanks ... mea culpa. Sources are always important to consult. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Thu Sep 4 22:57:10 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 12:57:10 -1000 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <20140904122020.50f134f5cfd075a6f9c8f043@gmail.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140904122020.50f134f5cfd075a6f9c8f043@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5408EE46.20906@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/04/2014 05:20 AM, Federico Galland wrote: > Just wanted to point this out: > > http://www.dynebolic.org/ > > Though it doesn't fit the size criteria. I've had problems with dynebolic running on some of my older hardware for the last few years. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Thu Sep 4 23:11:15 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 19:11:15 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 19:42:16 +0100 > Harry van Haaren wrote: > > It could be discussed to "highjack" ~/.jackdrc by copying an NSM > > sessions .jackdrc to ~/ although a hack solution for a power-user, > > I think its not a good way to go for beginners. We need something to > > fix this... ideas? > > For my taste this solution is far too hackish. I would not expect or > want any program to modify my ~/.jackdrc. > this is what ardour does. just FYI. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Fri Sep 5 00:25:03 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 17:25:03 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404197B.9010207@hawaii.rr.com> <540504B2.40504@holgerdanske.com> <54051956.8010801@hawaii.rr.com> <5407B800.3030409@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <540902DF.1010005@holgerdanske.com> On 09/04/2014 07:30 AM, Kazakore wrote: > I'm confused!! A few posts ago you complained about other suggested > distros being too big, which were smaller than this one, and now you > seem to be happy to be trying this out even though it is about 10 times > larger than you seemed to want to find a fully fledged audio distro. > So if you're happy to download a 2GB Musix why not a 1.6GB KXStudio??? It would seem that large downloads are the only option for audio-specific Linux distributions (?). Carlos was polite enough to respond to my inquiry, so I'm asking some more questions to decide if I really want to go down that path. If someone knows of a distribution with a small installer and ala carte application selection/ download, please let me know. David From falktx at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 00:31:26 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 01:31:26 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <540902DF.1010005@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <5404197B.9010207@hawaii.rr.com> <540504B2.40504@holgerdanske.com> <54051956.8010801@hawaii.rr.com> <5407B800.3030409@holgerdanske.com> <540902DF.1010005@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <5409045E.1000804@gmail.com> On 09/05/2014 01:25 AM, David Christensen wrote: > > If someone knows of a distribution with a small installer and ala > carte application selection/ download, please let me know. You can install a minimal Debian or Ubuntu system (via their net-installer) and only install the pieces you want. This is how I installed current my debian jessie/testing system, although I've installed too much stuff by now... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Fri Sep 5 00:47:35 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 06:32:35 +0545 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients Message-ID: Hi all. Sorry for the very much off-topic post but I have asked a couple of other places and from those tried some recommendations and decided I don't like them. On the whole you guys and gals seem to have similar sensibilities to me so hopefully can suggest a email client that I will agree with. Needs to run nicely in Threaded mode (including own, sent emails in the thread for normal, non-list conversations.) Evolution, Thunderbird and Alpine are the ones I've tried. Instantly didn't like Evolution, tried Thunderbird for about the last week (and currently typing this in it) with the Conversations plugin and it almost works but there is a lot which is clunky and not quite right. Alpine I barely got set up, only managed to get it to sync my Inbox folder, none of the others, and it all of a sudden stopped even being willing to do that. Considered trying kmail but it's a huge download for just an email client (I assume it takes most of the Kontact library/suite just not the other actual programs) and am currently on too poor a connection to feel it was worth trying on the off-chance (IE it wasn't actually recommended by anybody.) Thanks and sorry for the noise. Dale :) From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Fri Sep 5 01:18:54 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 07:03:54 +0545 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: [Qtractor-devel] [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM] In-Reply-To: <5408E38F.9000909@rncbc.org> References: <1409862835.5724.49.camel@alice-dsl.net> <5408D428.1060106@rncbc.org> <1409866467.5724.53.camel@rocketmail.com> <5408E38F.9000909@rncbc.org> Message-ID: On 05/09/14 03:56, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > On 09/04/2014 10:34 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> >> This year You record an audio track with an I+O latency of 10.7 ms. >> Two year later you want to restore this session, but you don't remember >> the jackd settings you used. Originally audio and MIDI tracks were in >> sync, when you used 10.7 ms I+O latency. Within the years you got new >> hardware, you don't remember what latency you once used and starts jackd >> with a lower I+O latency. Nothing bad would happen for Ardour users, but >> a Qtractor user would run into sync issues. Am I mistaken? >> > > i really don't get why it would have worse or better sync depending on > jackd latency settings. please forgive me, but i don't see it directly > related to the case of audio vs. midi sync... > > though, in the special case that comes to mind, iif the alsa-midi > timer is slaved to a pcm sound-device, as against to the system or > hires timer for instance, you probably will get it different whether > running on disparate buffer-sizes, periods and/or sample-rates, that's > for granted--well, if you change the sample-rate across sessions you > will get prompted to convert into a brand new and different session > anyhow ;) > > byee Huh?? So you have audio coming from the PC and MIDI going out to external sound generating MIDI devices and you don't see how output latency from the computer can affect the timing sync between sound from the computer and sound from the audio modules??? Surely even a blind wombat could see that! Unless there is some magic in Jack/AlsaMIDI which automagically delays the MIDI by the same as the output buffer settings of Jack. Then some might also want to add a fixed delay value to take into account the hardware delay (propagation time) but I think we really are getting a bit complex now! Although I very much doubt anybody would be able to hear the difference if you're only talking a couple of ms and have different sounds both internally and externally (same sounds would cause comb filtering and eventually echo once latency became high enough.) But this is true for ALL audio coming out of the sequencer, whether you recorded it or it's from a sample-pack or a soft-synth etc etc. tl/dr: All that is really needed is an option to delay MIDI signals by the amount of the audio output buffer (plus you could add the optional hardware delay in settings if you really wished). This should bring output of both audio and MIDI sounds as close to sync as is possible, with the real-world systems being as imperfect as they are. Dale. From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Fri Sep 5 01:32:51 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 07:17:51 +0545 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: [Qtractor-devel] [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM] In-Reply-To: <5408E38F.9000909@rncbc.org> References: <1409862835.5724.49.camel@alice-dsl.net> <5408D428.1060106@rncbc.org> <1409866467.5724.53.camel@rocketmail.com> <5408E38F.9000909@rncbc.org> Message-ID: On 05/09/14 03:56, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > On 09/04/2014 10:34 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> >> This year You record an audio track with an I+O latency of 10.7 ms. >> Two year later you want to restore this session, but you don't remember >> the jackd settings you used. Originally audio and MIDI tracks were in >> sync, when you used 10.7 ms I+O latency. Within the years you got new >> hardware, you don't remember what latency you once used and starts jackd >> with a lower I+O latency. Nothing bad would happen for Ardour users, but >> a Qtractor user would run into sync issues. Am I mistaken? >> > > i really don't get why it would have worse or better sync depending on > jackd latency settings. please forgive me, but i don't see it directly > related to the case of audio vs. midi sync... > > though, in the special case that comes to mind, iif the alsa-midi > timer is slaved to a pcm sound-device, as against to the system or > hires timer for instance, you probably will get it different whether > running on disparate buffer-sizes, periods and/or sample-rates, that's > for granted--well, if you change the sample-rate across sessions you > will get prompted to convert into a brand new and different session > anyhow ;) > > byee Huh?? So you have audio coming from the PC and MIDI going out to external sound generating MIDI devices and you don't see how output latency from the computer can affect the timing sync between sound from the computer and sound from the audio modules??? Surely even a blind wombat could see that! Unless there is some magic in Jack/AlsaMIDI which automagically delays the MIDI by the same as the output buffer settings of Jack. Then some might also want to add a fixed delay value to take into account the hardware delay (propagation time) but I think we really are getting a bit complex now! Although I very much doubt anybody would be able to hear the difference if you're only talking a couple of ms and have different sounds both internally and externally (same sounds would cause comb filtering and eventually echo once latency became high enough.) But this is true for ALL audio coming out of the sequencer, whether you recorded it or it's from a sample-pack or a soft-synth etc etc. tl/dr: All that is really needed is an option to delay MIDI signals by the amount of the audio output buffer (plus you could add the optional hardware delay in settings if you really wished). This should bring output of both audio and MIDI sounds as close to sync as is possible, with the real-world systems being as imperfect as they are. Dale. From brummer- at web.de Fri Sep 5 03:28:26 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 05:28:26 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: <1409851408.5724.19.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54068FC6.80409@gmail.com> <5406BD71.90306@nilsgey.de> <20140903194455.GA23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409776345.600.2.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903203804.GC23449@linuxaudio.org> <1409777015.600.5.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140903210610.GA20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409779055.1331.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <540792FD.9060504@rncbc.org> <20140903221945.GC20335@linuxaudio.org> <1409815656.1580.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <1409816309.1580.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <5a1180b6959e2cd54cd8799e890d02ea@rncbc.org> <1409842182.5724.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <54087F5E.9080709@web.de> <1409851408.5724.19.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <54092DDA.9030308@web.de> Am 04.09.2014 19:23, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: > On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 17:03 +0200, hermann meyer wrote: >> Am 04.09.2014 16:49, schrieb Ralf Mardorf: >>> Hi Rui :) >>> >>> On Thu, 2014-09-04 at 15:34 +0100, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: >>>> as said, automatic latency compensation in qtractors audio recording is >>>> a one-time settlement--it gets settled at the time you take the >>>> recording. nevermore it gets auto-adjusted later on, ie. the take offset >>>> value, as read from jack_port_get_latency*(), won't ever change >>>> thereafter. that means you're in charge to tweak it later if you please, >>>> by summoning the clip properties dialog and changing the offset value as >>>> you wish. >>> IIUC NSM doesn't care about the jackd settings. When Qtractor also >>> ignores the settings, expects that they are the same as when an audio >>> track was recorded, then Qtractor _does not_ support NSM session >>> management. I start my sessions by scripts and don't use a session >>> manager and it seems that my decision to do so is good. >>> >>> ______________________________ >> Your conclusions here are wrong. NSM didn't forward any jackd settings >> to the clients. So, how a client behave regarding the latency setting in >> jackd, have nothing to do with, if it support NSM or not. >> Also, your use of scripts didn't change that, so it isn't good or bad, >> it's simply just the way YOU do it. > The scripts start all apps, do all connections and at first jackd is > started always using the same latency, so the sync of audio and MIDI > tracks for Qtractor can't differ. NSM cares about this too? > > And your script is written by rassg? "Ralfs auto session script generator", or did it depend on your human interaction with your keyboard? And later on, when your session is grown to a state were you are forced to use a higher latency, because you reach the limit of your hardware, it do all the magic to sync the tracks inside qtractor to the desired settings? And your script is also able to archive/restore a session over the network, were more then one host is involved, even again with syncing all the jack settings? Wow, great. I remember the day's were I use scripts as well, but, I must say I wasn't able to archive all that. Maybe you are so kind to release your "rassg" tool? regards hermann From kevinc at cosgroves.us Fri Sep 5 04:08:59 2014 From: kevinc at cosgroves.us (Kevin Cosgrove) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 21:08:59 -0700 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20140905040859.A005FBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> On 5 September 2014 at 6:32, Kazakore wrote: > Sorry for the very much off-topic post ... can suggest a email client Sylpheed or its cousin Claws? -- Kevin From brummer- at web.de Fri Sep 5 04:09:25 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 06:09:25 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Session management with NSM In-Reply-To: References: <20140828224247.236111e1@eeyore> <20140829213201.25bca02a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140902220058.351f82b4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <54093775.3080503@web.de> Am 05.09.2014 01:11, schrieb Paul Davis: > > > > On Tue, Sep 2, 2014 at 4:00 PM, Philipp ?berbacher > > wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Sep 2014 19:42:16 +0100 > Harry van Haaren > wrote: > > It could be discussed to "highjack" ~/.jackdrc by copying an NSM > > sessions .jackdrc to ~/ although a hack solution for a > power-user, > > I think its not a good way to go for beginners. We need something to > > fix this... ideas? > > For my taste this solution is far too hackish. I would not expect or > want any program to modify my ~/.jackdrc. > > > this is what ardour does. just FYI. > and qjackctl does as well. As a rc file it should store the last used settings, shouldn't it? For the case that jack settings should be stored within a saved session, something like QjackCtl.conf would make more sense, were you could store a couple of different jack settings by name. Such a .conf file could easy generated by jackpatch, and if a user start a session, were jackpatch is involved, jackpatch could pop up a "warning", when the jack settings in use didn't compare to the last saved settings in this session. How a user interact with the warning, may be his own decision. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gheskett at wdtv.com Fri Sep 5 04:20:13 2014 From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 00:20:13 -0400 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201409050020.13892.gheskett@wdtv.com> On Thursday 04 September 2014 20:47:35 Kazakore did opine And Gene did reply: > Hi all. > > Sorry for the very much off-topic post but I have asked a couple of > other places and from those tried some recommendations and decided I > don't like them. On the whole you guys and gals seem to have similar > sensibilities to me so hopefully can suggest a email client that I will > agree with. Needs to run nicely in Threaded mode (including own, sent > emails in the thread for normal, non-list conversations.) > > Evolution, Thunderbird and Alpine are the ones I've tried. Instantly > didn't like Evolution, tried Thunderbird for about the last week (and > currently typing this in it) with the Conversations plugin and it > almost works but there is a lot which is clunky and not quite right. > Alpine I barely got set up, only managed to get it to sync my Inbox > folder, none of the others, and it all of a sudden stopped even being > willing to do that. > > Considered trying kmail but it's a huge download for just an email > client (I assume it takes most of the Kontact library/suite just not > the other actual programs) and am currently on too poor a connection > to feel it was worth trying on the off-chance (IE it wasn't actually > recommended by anybody.) > > Thanks and sorry for the noise. Dale :) While I have been using kmail, admittedly an older version now since this is a ubu 10.04.4 LTS server install I added X stuffs to, and am fairly happy with it. But with an email corpus approaching 20Gb, spanning almost 13 years in some folders,it does get a bit laggy at times. But by offloading the mail popping activities with a fetchmail/procmail/clamav/spamassassin/ chain so all kmail has to do is fetch from the /var/spool/mail inbox's, it generally remains quite responsive most of the time. Sure, it has some warts, but its ease of configuration kicks the rest of the wannabe's out of contention here. I am on the claws list, and rather like its user interface, but it has not grown the ability to import the kmail email corpus. Yet. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Fri Sep 5 04:22:22 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 18:22:22 -1000 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: <20140905040859.A005FBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> References: <20140905040859.A005FBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: <54093A7E.2010305@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/04/2014 06:08 PM, Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > > On 5 September 2014 at 6:32, Kazakore wrote: > >> Sorry for the very much off-topic post ... can suggest a email client > > Sylpheed or its cousin Claws? PINE or Elm? -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Fri Sep 5 06:12:13 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 08:12:13 +0200 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: <201409050020.13892.gheskett@wdtv.com> References: <201409050020.13892.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: <1409897533.5724.55.camel@rocketmail.com> On Fri, 2014-09-05 at 00:20 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: > kmail When using POP accounts Kmail tends to store duplicated messages. From tito.01beta at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 06:26:03 2014 From: tito.01beta at gmail.com (Tito Latini) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:26:03 +0200 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140905062603.GA1775@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> On Fri, Sep 05, 2014 at 06:32:35AM +0545, Kazakore wrote: > Hi all. > > Sorry for the very much off-topic post but I have asked a couple of > other places and from those tried some recommendations and decided I > don't like them. On the whole you guys and gals seem to have similar > sensibilities to me so hopefully can suggest a email client that I will > agree with. Needs to run nicely in Threaded mode (including own, sent > emails in the thread for normal, non-list conversations.) > > Evolution, Thunderbird and Alpine are the ones I've tried. Instantly > didn't like Evolution, tried Thunderbird for about the last week (and > currently typing this in it) with the Conversations plugin and it almost > works but there is a lot which is clunky and not quite right. Alpine I > barely got set up, only managed to get it to sync my Inbox folder, none > of the others, and it all of a sudden stopped even being willing to do that. > > Considered trying kmail but it's a huge download for just an email > client (I assume it takes most of the Kontact library/suite just not the > other actual programs) and am currently on too poor a connection to feel > it was worth trying on the off-chance (IE it wasn't actually recommended > by anybody.) I use mutt [1]. An useful option for muttrc is set sort = threads my muttrc without italian comments is: # ~/.mutt/muttrc set folder = "~/.mutt/Mail" set from = "Gallo Dice " set alias_file = "~/.mutt/aliases" source "~/.mutt/aliases" set reverse_alias = yes set postponed = "+da_spedire" set record = "+spediti/spediti_`date +%Y%m`" set copy = yes set fcc_attach = no set reply_to = ask-yes set recall = ask-no set mime_forward = ask-no set ispell = "/usr/bin/aspell --mode=email check --lang=it_IT" set sort = threads set pager_index_lines = 7 set pager_stop = yes set pager_context = 2 ignore * unignore Date: From: To: Subject: color normal default default color hdrdefault blue default color quoted brightblue default color signature red default color indicator brightgreen default color error brightred default color status red default color tree magenta default color tilde magenta default color message brightwhite default color markers brightwhite default color attachment brightmagenta default color search white blue # end [1] http://www.mutt.org From murks at tuxfamily.org Fri Sep 5 08:11:31 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 10:11:31 +0200 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140905101131.6910ebcc@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Fri, 5 Sep 2014 06:32:35 +0545 Kazakore wrote: > Hi all. > > Sorry for the very much off-topic post but I have asked a couple of > other places and from those tried some recommendations and decided I > don't like them. On the whole you guys and gals seem to have similar > sensibilities to me so hopefully can suggest a email client that I > will agree with. Needs to run nicely in Threaded mode (including own, > sent emails in the thread for normal, non-list conversations.) > > Evolution, Thunderbird and Alpine are the ones I've tried. Instantly > didn't like Evolution, tried Thunderbird for about the last week (and > currently typing this in it) with the Conversations plugin and it > almost works but there is a lot which is clunky and not quite right. > Alpine I barely got set up, only managed to get it to sync my Inbox > folder, none of the others, and it all of a sudden stopped even being > willing to do that. > > Considered trying kmail but it's a huge download for just an email > client (I assume it takes most of the Kontact library/suite just not > the other actual programs) and am currently on too poor a connection > to feel it was worth trying on the off-chance (IE it wasn't actually > recommended by anybody.) > > Thanks and sorry for the noise. Dale :) I'm currently using claws mail, and while it is good there are still a couple of things I dislike. One thing you can try if you're not afraid to get your hands dirty is 'notmuch' (http://notmuchmail.org/) in combination with one of its UIs. There are a few, the emacs and mutt UIs are most likely the most mature ones, but there are a couple of others. Regards, Philipp From rncbc at rncbc.org Fri Sep 5 08:23:26 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 09:23:26 +0100 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: [Qtractor-devel] [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM] In-Reply-To: References: <1409862835.5724.49.camel@alice-dsl.net> <5408D428.1060106@rncbc.org> <1409866467.5724.53.camel@rocketmail.com> <5408E38F.9000909@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <8896424907fcd427d2cb7a685101d899@rncbc.org> On 2014-09-05 02:32, Kazakore wrote: > On 05/09/14 03:56, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: >> On 09/04/2014 10:34 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>> >>> This year You record an audio track with an I+O latency of 10.7 ms. >>> Two year later you want to restore this session, but you don't >>> remember >>> the jackd settings you used. Originally audio and MIDI tracks were in >>> sync, when you used 10.7 ms I+O latency. Within the years you got new >>> hardware, you don't remember what latency you once used and starts >>> jackd >>> with a lower I+O latency. Nothing bad would happen for Ardour users, >>> but >>> a Qtractor user would run into sync issues. Am I mistaken? >>> >> >> i really don't get why it would have worse or better sync depending on >> jackd latency settings. please forgive me, but i don't see it directly >> related to the case of audio vs. midi sync... >> >> though, in the special case that comes to mind, iif the alsa-midi >> timer is slaved to a pcm sound-device, as against to the system or >> hires timer for instance, you probably will get it different whether >> running on disparate buffer-sizes, periods and/or sample-rates, that's >> for granted--well, if you change the sample-rate across sessions you >> will get prompted to convert into a brand new and different session >> anyhow ;) >> >> byee > Huh?? > > So you have audio coming from the PC and MIDI going out to external > sound generating MIDI devices and you don't see how output latency > from the computer can affect the timing sync between sound from the > computer and sound from the audio modules??? Surely even a blind > wombat could see that! Unless there is some magic in Jack/AlsaMIDI > which automagically delays the MIDI by the same as the output buffer > settings of Jack. Then some might also want to add a fixed delay value > to take into account the hardware delay (propagation time) but I think > we really are getting a bit complex now! > re. external midi equipment, probably yes, that might be pertinent, but... my point was about audio and midi sync within qtractor (the sequencer) internally. once midi gets out of the sequencer or even of the machine, then i doubt one can ever compensate effectively for the delay, drift or jitter that will be always present, no mater how small but orthogonal to jackd buffer-size, periods or sample-rate, whatever, and sure matters to a perfect sync. i doubt the output latency of the in-machine jack-audio graph might be any significant or functional to that goal. > Although I very much doubt anybody would be able to hear the > difference if you're only talking a couple of ms and have different > sounds both internally and externally (same sounds would cause comb > filtering and eventually echo once latency became high enough.) > exactly :) > But this is true for ALL audio coming out of the sequencer, whether > you recorded it or it's from a sample-pack or a soft-synth etc etc. > > tl/dr: All that is really needed is an option to delay MIDI signals by > the amount of the audio output buffer (plus you could add the optional > hardware delay in settings if you really wished). This should bring > output of both audio and MIDI sounds as close to sync as is possible, > with the real-world systems being as imperfect as they are. > cheers -- rncbc aka. Rui Nuno Capela From raffaele.morelli at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 08:41:57 2014 From: raffaele.morelli at gmail.com (Raffaele Morelli) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 10:41:57 +0200 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: <20140905062603.GA1775@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> References: <20140905062603.GA1775@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> Message-ID: 2014-09-05 8:26 GMT+02:00 Tito Latini : > On Fri, Sep 05, 2014 at 06:32:35AM +0545, Kazakore wrote: > > Hi all. > > > > Sorry for the very much off-topic post but I have asked a couple of > > other places and from those tried some recommendations and decided I > > don't like them. On the whole you guys and gals seem to have similar > > sensibilities to me so hopefully can suggest a email client that I will > > agree with. Needs to run nicely in Threaded mode (including own, sent > > emails in the thread for normal, non-list conversations.) > > > > Evolution, Thunderbird and Alpine are the ones I've tried. Instantly > > didn't like Evolution, tried Thunderbird for about the last week (and > > currently typing this in it) with the Conversations plugin and it almost > > works but there is a lot which is clunky and not quite right. Alpine I > > barely got set up, only managed to get it to sync my Inbox folder, none > > of the others, and it all of a sudden stopped even being willing to do > that. > > > > Considered trying kmail but it's a huge download for just an email > > client (I assume it takes most of the Kontact library/suite just not the > > other actual programs) and am currently on too poor a connection to feel > > it was worth trying on the off-chance (IE it wasn't actually recommended > > by anybody.) > > ?+1 for mutt highly customizable -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abonnements at revolwear.com Fri Sep 5 09:28:37 2014 From: abonnements at revolwear.com (Max) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 18:28:37 +0900 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: <20140905101131.6910ebcc@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140905101131.6910ebcc@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <54098245.8050603@revolwear.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thunderbird is what I'm using currently too mainly because it is cross plattform and extensible. Some things are really annoying or complicated. The address book is strange and it's surprisingly complicated to add an address of someone who just sent you an email. It seems to be really low on Mozillas agenda and updates are rare and not substancial. That's a pity. What I tried too, is Geary Mail. It hasn't been mentioned here. I found that is is really nice but not quite mature. It seems to have more momentum then Thunderbird though, and may become an alternative for those who don't want to go mutt. https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Geary 1.5 ct. On 09/05/2014 05:11 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Fri, 5 Sep 2014 06:32:35 +0545 Kazakore > wrote: > >> Hi all. >> >> Sorry for the very much off-topic post but I have asked a couple >> of other places and from those tried some recommendations and >> decided I don't like them. On the whole you guys and gals seem to >> have similar sensibilities to me so hopefully can suggest a email >> client that I will agree with. Needs to run nicely in Threaded >> mode (including own, sent emails in the thread for normal, >> non-list conversations.) >> >> Evolution, Thunderbird and Alpine are the ones I've tried. >> Instantly didn't like Evolution, tried Thunderbird for about the >> last week (and currently typing this in it) with the >> Conversations plugin and it almost works but there is a lot which >> is clunky and not quite right. Alpine I barely got set up, only >> managed to get it to sync my Inbox folder, none of the others, >> and it all of a sudden stopped even being willing to do that. >> >> Considered trying kmail but it's a huge download for just an >> email client (I assume it takes most of the Kontact library/suite >> just not the other actual programs) and am currently on too poor >> a connection to feel it was worth trying on the off-chance (IE it >> wasn't actually recommended by anybody.) >> >> Thanks and sorry for the noise. Dale :) > > I'm currently using claws mail, and while it is good there are > still a couple of things I dislike. > > One thing you can try if you're not afraid to get your hands dirty > is 'notmuch' (http://notmuchmail.org/) in combination with one of > its UIs. There are a few, the emacs and mutt UIs are most likely > the most mature ones, but there are a couple of others. > > Regards, Philipp _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlQJgkUACgkQ3EB7kzgMM6IabgCeMhloaS1adCWFGguuGl7z7zY/ 4g0An15PRf0yQlp0wKGPU2eIMntRxtdn =eJap -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jh at brainiac.com Fri Sep 5 11:55:10 2014 From: jh at brainiac.com (Joe Hartley) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 07:55:10 -0400 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: <20140905040859.A005FBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> References: <20140905040859.A005FBE05B@joseph.cosgroves.us> Message-ID: <20140905075510.136cd9bb94dc2f2589238081@brainiac.com> On Thu, 04 Sep 2014 21:08:59 -0700 Kevin Cosgrove wrote: > On 5 September 2014 at 6:32, Kazakore wrote: > > Sorry for the very much off-topic post ... can suggest a email client > > Sylpheed or its cousin Claws? +1 for Sylpheed. I've been using it for years - I like it a great deal. -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh at brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa From raffaele.morelli at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 12:20:48 2014 From: raffaele.morelli at gmail.com (Raffaele Morelli) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 14:20:48 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] META list owner and terms of use In-Reply-To: <1409767718.313.1.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <20140901110911.7a4793ee@cocalight> <5404AA5D.1080305@holgerdanske.com> <20140902124420.GC26551@tal> <540627B0.9050303@hawaii.rr.com> <54067FEB.3030909@holgerdanske.com> <5406A759.6070008@holgerdanske.com> <1409767718.313.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140905122047.GA12856@gmail.com> On 03/09/14 at 08:08pm, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Tue, 2014-09-02 at 22:30 -0700, David Christensen wrote: > > linux-audio-user: > > > > I don't see a list owner or a terms of use policy for this list on what > > I presume are the appropriate pages: > > > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo > > > > > > Who is the list owner? > > > > > > What is the policy regarding personal attacks, etc.? > > > > > > TIA, > > > > David > > David, how many emails of female Linux audio users did you noticed? > There are a few, but Linux audio lists are usually dominated by mails > from men. You shouldn't care about the my ... is bigger than yours > mails. Too funny, in Germany's Ruhrgebiet > "Stutenbissigkeit" ( http://www.dict.cc/?s=stutenbissigkeit ) is a > female thingy, men don't behave like this here, but get used to it, on > Linux mailing lists most of the times men behave like this. Get a thick > skin and don't care about it. There wasn't an official serious attack > against you. Ralf, he did not try to find an answer by searching the Web nor by reading distro specific infos, pretending debian developers to fix his things (apt downloading docs!), making absurds request on size, filing ridiculus bug reports, etc etc... well, of course it was at least an attack :-) /r PS http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html From jamshark70 at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 13:23:04 2014 From: jamshark70 at gmail.com (James Harkins) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 13:23:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients References: Message-ID: Kazakore writes: > Sorry for the very much off-topic post but I have asked a couple of > other places and from those tried some recommendations and decided I > don't like them. On the whole you guys and gals seem to have similar > sensibilities to me so hopefully can suggest a email client that I will > agree with. Needs to run nicely in Threaded mode (including own, sent > emails in the thread for normal, non-list conversations.) I'm not totally sure it will meet all your needs, but Trojita has the nice advantage of being rigorous about asking the IMAP server for *only* the information it needs *right now*, and not doing the kinds of stupid things that, say, Thunderbird does such as download headers for *all* messages before showing you any header for any message. Even if your inbox has 10000 messages, if your screen can show only 30 headers, it'll fetch 30 and show them to you immediately before doing anything else. Threaded view depends on the IMAP server's capabilities (which means, no luck for gmail). And it's not especially feature rich. But I use it because I abhor superfluous network traffic*, and Trojita is the smartest about this that I've ever seen. Very responsive developer community, too. http://trojita.flaska.net hjh * I live in China, where access to USA-based email servers can be slow. So efficient use of network resources is a big deal for me. From jamshark70 at gmail.com Fri Sep 5 13:44:04 2014 From: jamshark70 at gmail.com (James Harkins) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 13:44:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [LAU] what is jackd "DSP load"? Blinking "RT" indicator? References: <20140904130354.GA28982@aol.com> <20140904160918.4b0c96d1@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> <20140904175912.GD21942@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: Fons Adriaensen writes: > > On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 04:09:18PM +0200, Joakim Hernberg wrote: > > > Note that it's an > > average and not a maximum number, so conventional wisdom is to keep it > > under 60% or so, to avoid xruns (ymmw). > > Last time I looked at that part of the Jack code it was > the maximum over the last N periods (with N = 1000 or so). > But things could have changed since then. There must be some averaging going on in there. If I create a ton of synths in SuperCollider (driving up the DSP load), the % load takes a few seconds to show the actual load. When I remove those synths, it again takes a few seconds for the display to fall back to its baseline level. In any case, the display is definitely not an instantaneous reading. hjh From len at ovenwerks.net Fri Sep 5 15:38:05 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 08:38:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] what is jackd "DSP load"? Blinking "RT" indicator? In-Reply-To: References: <20140904130354.GA28982@aol.com> <20140904160918.4b0c96d1@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> <20140904175912.GD21942@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Sep 2014, James Harkins wrote: > Fons Adriaensen writes: >> Last time I looked at that part of the Jack code it was >> the maximum over the last N periods (with N = 1000 or so). >> But things could have changed since then. > > There must be some averaging going on in there. > > If I create a ton of synths in SuperCollider (driving up the DSP load), the > % load takes a few seconds to show the actual load. When I remove those > synths, it again takes a few seconds for the display to fall back to its > baseline level. > > In any case, the display is definitely not an instantaneous reading. There is a balance between instantaneous reading and using cpu that your audio could be using. I am not sure if average or peak is being reported, but it is not suggested to run at 99% anyway. This is just a guide to decide on latency setting and plugin inclusion. The real measure of cpu use is xruns or not. This is just one more tool to help with no xruns. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Fri Sep 5 15:39:43 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 21:24:43 +0545 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: [Qtractor-devel] [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM] In-Reply-To: <8896424907fcd427d2cb7a685101d899@rncbc.org> References: <1409862835.5724.49.camel@alice-dsl.net> <5408D428.1060106@rncbc.org> <1409866467.5724.53.camel@rocketmail.com> <5408E38F.9000909@rncbc.org> <8896424907fcd427d2cb7a685101d899@rncbc.org> Message-ID: On 05/09/14 14:08, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > On 2014-09-05 02:32, Kazakore wrote: >> On 05/09/14 03:56, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: >>> On 09/04/2014 10:34 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>>> >>>> This year You record an audio track with an I+O latency of 10.7 ms. >>>> Two year later you want to restore this session, but you don't >>>> remember >>>> the jackd settings you used. Originally audio and MIDI tracks were in >>>> sync, when you used 10.7 ms I+O latency. Within the years you got new >>>> hardware, you don't remember what latency you once used and starts >>>> jackd >>>> with a lower I+O latency. Nothing bad would happen for Ardour >>>> users, but >>>> a Qtractor user would run into sync issues. Am I mistaken? >>>> >>> >>> i really don't get why it would have worse or better sync depending >>> on jackd latency settings. please forgive me, but i don't see it >>> directly related to the case of audio vs. midi sync... >>> >>> though, in the special case that comes to mind, iif the alsa-midi >>> timer is slaved to a pcm sound-device, as against to the system or >>> hires timer for instance, you probably will get it different whether >>> running on disparate buffer-sizes, periods and/or sample-rates, >>> that's for granted--well, if you change the sample-rate across >>> sessions you will get prompted to convert into a brand new and >>> different session anyhow ;) >>> >>> byee >> Huh?? >> >> So you have audio coming from the PC and MIDI going out to external >> sound generating MIDI devices and you don't see how output latency >> from the computer can affect the timing sync between sound from the >> computer and sound from the audio modules??? Surely even a blind >> wombat could see that! Unless there is some magic in Jack/AlsaMIDI >> which automagically delays the MIDI by the same as the output buffer >> settings of Jack. Then some might also want to add a fixed delay value >> to take into account the hardware delay (propagation time) but I think >> we really are getting a bit complex now! >> > > re. external midi equipment, probably yes, that might be pertinent, > but... > > my point was about audio and midi sync within qtractor (the sequencer) > internally. once midi gets out of the sequencer or even of the > machine, then i doubt one can ever compensate effectively for the > delay, drift or jitter that will be always present, no mater how small > but orthogonal to jackd buffer-size, periods or sample-rate, whatever, > and sure matters to a perfect sync. i doubt the output latency of the > in-machine jack-audio graph might be any significant or functional to > that goal. > I should probably drop out of this conversation as I haven't used QTractor nor have I used any external gear for quite some time. But if the issue is with external then you also need to bear in mind that you might send some internally and some externally, so applying the same delay to everything will still put some parts out of time with others. A toggle for a MIDI channel going to int/ext could possibly be one solution?? Or if it is related to internal audio ssync I have to admit I am also stumped why this would happen, as all audio coming out of the computer would be going through the same audio buffers (Jack) and delayed the same amount! >> Although I very much doubt anybody would be able to hear the >> difference if you're only talking a couple of ms and have different >> sounds both internally and externally (same sounds would cause comb >> filtering and eventually echo once latency became high enough.) >> > > exactly :) > Plus (extrapolating from Ralf's comments) you clearly do already provide a way for the adjustment to be done manually! Even if it is harder work for the user... From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Fri Sep 5 15:49:53 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 21:34:53 +0545 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: <1409897533.5724.55.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <201409050020.13892.gheskett@wdtv.com> <1409897533.5724.55.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: On 05/09/14 11:57, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Fri, 2014-09-05 at 00:20 -0400, Gene Heskett wrote: >> kmail > When using POP accounts Kmail tends to store duplicated messages. > > > _______________________________________________ When I tried to configure with POP3 with Thunderbird to my Hotmail account (I know!) it repeatedly told me my password was incorrect, whereas it instantly configured correctly with IMAP. Therefore all my comparisons so far have been with IMAP, although extra strain on the internet connection (seems caching works reasonably with Thunderbird thougg, I just have niggles with interface things.) Also read Alpine and others actually work far better with IMAP than with POP... Also don't know if that was an Hotmail/Outlook server issue or Thunderbird not liking POP3 but as long as it can cache within a session I can live with it not always keeping an offline version (although in some ways I would prefer it did.) Dale. From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Fri Sep 5 16:00:42 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (Kazakore) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 21:45:42 +0545 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 05/09/14 19:08, James Harkins wrote: > Kazakore writes: > >> Sorry for the very much off-topic post but I have asked a couple of >> other places and from those tried some recommendations and decided I >> don't like them. On the whole you guys and gals seem to have similar >> sensibilities to me so hopefully can suggest a email client that I will >> agree with. Needs to run nicely in Threaded mode (including own, sent >> emails in the thread for normal, non-list conversations.) > I'm not totally sure it will meet all your needs, but Trojita has the nice > advantage of being rigorous about asking the IMAP server for *only* the > information it needs *right now*, and not doing the kinds of stupid things > that, say, Thunderbird does such as download headers for *all* messages before > showing you any header for any message. Even if your inbox has 10000 messages, > if your screen can show only 30 headers, it'll fetch 30 and show them to you > immediately before doing anything else. > > Threaded view depends on the IMAP server's capabilities (which means, no luck > for gmail). And it's not especially feature rich. But I use it because I abhor > superfluous network traffic*, and Trojita is the smartest about this that I've > ever seen. > > Very responsive developer community, too. > > http://trojita.flaska.net > > hjh > > * I live in China, where access to USA-based email servers can be slow. So > efficient use of network resources is a big deal for me. > > _______________________________________________ Sounds like it could be very useful to me, currently travelling SE Asia with incredibly poor internet!!! Not in the Ubuntu Reps though, but sounds interesting so will try and remember it incase Sylpheed (couldn't find Claws, actually just seen it in Suggested as claws-mail...) and Mutt both leaving me wanting. :) (PS I keep on toying with the idea of saying hello to China but seems for visa applications they want a terrible amount of detail, such as complete travel itinery and/or person you are going to visit. Do you know if it's as hard as they make it sound? I do know a couple of people who have been and should ask them some more details really... (Taking an OT thread even more OT!! ;) )) Dale. From email+music at blaise.ca Fri Sep 5 16:09:26 2014 From: email+music at blaise.ca (Blaise Alleyne) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 12:09:26 -0400 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: <54098245.8050603@revolwear.com> References: <20140905101131.6910ebcc@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54098245.8050603@revolwear.com> Message-ID: <5409E036.4070808@blaise.ca> On 14-09-05 05:28 AM, Max wrote: > What I tried too, is Geary Mail. It hasn't been mentioned here. I > found that is is really nice but not quite mature. It seems to have > more momentum then Thunderbird though, and may become an alternative > for those who don't want to go mutt. > https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Geary > +1 to at least giving Geary a try. I've only taken it for a test run, but it seems to be headed in an interesting direction if you'd like a more Gmail-oriented conversations approach, but in a desktop IMAP client. (Personally, I'm still a fan of IceDove/Thunderbird). Geary isn't mature yet, but it's a project of the Yorba Foundation (i.e. known for Shotwell), so it seems like there's some momentum, unlike Thunderbird/IceDove which is basically in indefinite LTS mode from Mozilla. http://yorba.org/ From diehl at umich.edu Fri Sep 5 16:38:07 2014 From: diehl at umich.edu (Edward Diehl) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 12:38:07 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences Message-ID: To David Christensen who is looking for minimal audio distros: AVLinux comes in a (somewhat) striped down version you can read about here: http://www.remastersys.com/forums/index.php?topic=3409.0 In addition AVLinux is built using the Remastersys ISO tools which allow you to make a bootable ISO from your system. Hence, you can start with a standard AVLinux and remove anything you do not want (or install other stuff) and then make your own bootable ISO. Edward Diehl -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fons at linuxaudio.org Fri Sep 5 17:30:11 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2014 17:30:11 +0000 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: [Qtractor-devel] [Fwd: Re: ; ) Was - Re: Session management with NSM] In-Reply-To: <1409866467.5724.53.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1409862835.5724.49.camel@alice-dsl.net> <5408D428.1060106@rncbc.org> <1409866467.5724.53.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140905173011.GA15022@linuxaudio.org> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 11:34:27PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > This year You record an audio track with an I+O latency of 10.7 ms. > Two year later you want to restore this session, but you don't remember > the jackd settings you used. Originally audio and MIDI tracks were in > sync, when you used 10.7 ms I+O latency. Within the years you got new > hardware, you don't remember what latency you once used and starts jackd > with a lower I+O latency. Nothing bad would happen for Ardour users, but > a Qtractor user would run into sync issues. Am I mistaken? No. If you use different HW, latency will change even if you use the same Jack settings, but it shouldn't matter. At least not if the SW does the right thing, which is to store all positions on the timeline in a way that makes them independent of latency, i.o.w. as they would have been if there were no latency. All that takes is is to correct for input latency when recording, and for output latency when playing, in both cases using the actual values which don't even have to be remembered. It's simple enough, there is no excuse for getting it wrong. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Sat Sep 6 02:07:19 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (kazakore) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 07:52:19 +0545 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On 05/09/14 19:08, James Harkins wrote: > > Kazakore writes: > (couldn't find Claws, actually just seen it in Suggested as > claws-mail...) Well slow and buggy Claws just managed to delete my entire Inbox folder! Including emails going back quite a lot of years! (Which I admit I should have moved a lot of to different folders, most of which are set-up but I'm often lazy.) Didn't even put them in the Deleted folder for recovery!! Luckily Hotmail has a Restore Deleted function if you go via webmail and I have managed to get a fair number of the important, recent ones back but definitely still missing a fair few! So far it actually appears to be slower in letting you browse while loading than Thunderbird and I'm currently in the capital, with better internet than I had before. Not yet managed to find a way to show my own replies inline with the threaded view, although it gives you a clickable symbol to let you know you have a reply (why not just show it inline?) There are a fair number of Plugins installable via Apt but no idea if any would add this functionality?? Yet to work out if the keyboard shortcuts suit my methods... Not tried the other suggestions yet. And although I say buggy that might be an exagaration. Partially my fault for trying to do things to some folders while it's still trying to load other folder's contents I think. Once set up as I like and with a bit of patience my end I don't think anything drastic like that would happen again! ;) From dpchrist at holgerdanske.com Sat Sep 6 03:14:51 2014 From: dpchrist at holgerdanske.com (David Christensen) Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 20:14:51 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540A7C2B.9050402@holgerdanske.com> On 09/05/2014 09:38 AM, Edward Diehl wrote: > http://www.remastersys.com/forums/index.php?topic=3409.0 Thanks for the pointer. I'll keep it in mind as a fallback. :-) David From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Sat Sep 6 08:18:17 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 09:18:17 +0100 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140906091817.465622b2@debian> On Sat, 6 Sep 2014 07:52:19 +0545 kazakore wrote: > > > On 05/09/14 19:08, James Harkins wrote: > > > Kazakore writes: > > > > (couldn't find Claws, actually just seen it in Suggested as > > claws-mail...) > > Well slow and buggy Claws just managed to delete my entire Inbox > folder! Including emails going back quite a lot of years! (Which I > admit I should have moved a lot of to different folders, most of which > are set-up but I'm often lazy.) Didn't even put them in the Deleted > folder for recovery!! That's strange. I've been using Claws ever since it split from Sylpheed and never had anything like that happen. I've even copied entire directories across to different machines over the years (as I've upgraded) without loss. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From murks at tuxfamily.org Sat Sep 6 08:57:59 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 10:57:59 +0200 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140906105759.39ff268d@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Sat, 6 Sep 2014 07:52:19 +0545 kazakore wrote: > > > On 05/09/14 19:08, James Harkins wrote: > > > Kazakore writes: > > > > (couldn't find Claws, actually just seen it in Suggested as > > claws-mail...) > > Well slow and buggy Claws just managed to delete my entire Inbox > folder! Including emails going back quite a lot of years! (Which I > admit I should have moved a lot of to different folders, most of which > are set-up but I'm often lazy.) Didn't even put them in the Deleted > folder for recovery!! > > Luckily Hotmail has a Restore Deleted function if you go via webmail > and I have managed to get a fair number of the important, recent ones > back but definitely still missing a fair few! I never had a problem like that. I'd double check whether the files are actually gone fro the harddrive or just don't show up in claws anymore. > So far it actually appears to be slower in letting you browse while > loading than Thunderbird and I'm currently in the capital, with better > internet than I had before. Not yet managed to find a way to show my > own replies inline with the threaded view, although it gives you a > clickable symbol to let you know you have a reply (why not just show > it inline?) There are a fair number of Plugins installable via Apt > but no idea if any would add this functionality?? Yet to work out if > the keyboard shortcuts suit my methods... > > Not tried the other suggestions yet. > > And although I say buggy that might be an exagaration. Partially my > fault for trying to do things to some folders while it's still trying > to load other folder's contents I think. Once set up as I like and > with a bit of patience my end I don't think anything drastic like > that would happen again! ;) Claws has a support mailinglist, maybe they can help you there. I currently have only 16k emails in my largest folder and so far claws is fast enough. If you have a lot more maybe something like notmuch would work better. I used offlineimap + sup, and that worked reasonably well. Maybe offlineimap would be for you, you'd have everything available offline. sup is pretty much dead as far as I know and it never got mature, so I'd go for notmuch + some frontend nowadays. Maybe I'll switch myself at some point, but setting up roughly four different programs can be a bit of a pain. Ciao, Philipp From dj_kaza at hotmail.com Sat Sep 6 09:25:47 2014 From: dj_kaza at hotmail.com (kazakore) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 15:10:47 +0545 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: <20140906105759.39ff268d@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140906105759.39ff268d@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Sep 2014 10:57:59 +0200 Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Sat, 6 Sep 2014 07:52:19 +0545 > kazakore wrote: > > > > > > On 05/09/14 19:08, James Harkins wrote: > > > > Kazakore writes: > > > > > > > (couldn't find Claws, actually just seen it in Suggested as > > > claws-mail...) > > > > Well slow and buggy Claws just managed to delete my entire Inbox > > folder! Including emails going back quite a lot of years! (Which I > > admit I should have moved a lot of to different folders, most of > > which are set-up but I'm often lazy.) Didn't even put them in the > > Deleted folder for recovery!! > > > > Luckily Hotmail has a Restore Deleted function if you go via webmail > > and I have managed to get a fair number of the important, recent > > ones back but definitely still missing a fair few! > > I never had a problem like that. I'd double check whether the files > are actually gone fro the harddrive or just don't show up in claws > anymore. Thanks for your comments Will and Phil. I think it might have actually been user error! I thought it was because I tried deleted the contents of a folder which it had incorrectly set to Inbox in preferences (I was trying to open this folder to empty it, I should really remove myself from the FreeCycle mail-lists now I'm not in the UK but haven't got around to it but don't like to let it build up too much.) I had right-clicked on Inbox to set as default inbox (rather than INBOX) and once the page loaded deleted all (from context menu, stupidly full delete option, as Del key wouldn't do anything) and then afterwards noticed it had incorrectly set my FreeCycle folder to be default inbox. Possibly this is why and a slight bug but really more a matter of patience required my end. But I do have both a Inbox folder and an INBOX folder in my list, trying to delete one fails to remove the folder but does delete all messages from both!! I might have done this around the same time and assumed it was from emptying the other folder. Actually emptying the other folder while it was erroneously set to be default inbox would have the same effect! Is there possibly a way to merge both inbox folders into one, as they're really the same? Don't need the folder listed twice! Although I could use favourites as all I really need 99% of the time is Inbox and LinuxAudio folders. > > > So far it actually appears to be slower in letting you browse while > > loading than Thunderbird and I'm currently in the capital, with > > better internet than I had before. Not yet managed to find a way to > > show my own replies inline with the threaded view, although it > > gives you a clickable symbol to let you know you have a reply (why > > not just show it inline?) There are a fair number of Plugins > > installable via Apt but no idea if any would add this > > functionality?? Yet to work out if the keyboard shortcuts suit my > > methods... > > > > Not tried the other suggestions yet. > > > > And although I say buggy that might be an exagaration. Partially my > > fault for trying to do things to some folders while it's still > > trying to load other folder's contents I think. Once set up as I > > like and with a bit of patience my end I don't think anything > > drastic like that would happen again! ;) > > Claws has a support mailinglist, maybe they can help you there. > I currently have only 16k emails in my largest folder and so far claws > is fast enough. If you have a lot more maybe something like notmuch > would work better. I used offlineimap + sup, and that worked > reasonably well. Maybe offlineimap would be for you, you'd have > everything available offline. sup is pretty much dead as far as I > know and it never got mature, so I'd go for notmuch + some frontend > nowadays. Maybe I'll switch myself at some point, but setting up > roughly four different programs can be a bit of a pain. > That is far, far more than I have in any folder! Still finding it slow! Doesn't seem to prioritise what you are trying to do and often doesn't even seem to recognise you have clicked onto a different message. I have a feeling it's due to slow internet connection? Is this offlineimap you mention in one of the plugin packages? As I mentioned I downloaded the -tools and -docs but none of the -*plugins so far. Sure there are quite a few which would help me once I know what to look for. Hopefully one to show own replies inline as well, as it knows you have replied as provides a link to go to your message, when personally I would like it to just display it in place. Anyway as you so rightly point out I should take this to their own mailing list now. It does in some ways seem smoother than Thunderbird, despite my quibbles in this thread, and I do like the GTK of setting shortcuts (although I don't have the setting permanently enabled to prevent myself from doing so by accident.) Dale. From djdualcore at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 16:45:07 2014 From: djdualcore at gmail.com (Neil) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 11:45:07 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Video About Creating New Sounds With Luppp Message-ID: In preparation for my Ohio Linux Fest talk about Luppp I have started creating short screencasts and posting them on YouTube and my blog. This one documents using Luppp with effects to create new sounds. http://oldmixtapes.blogspot.com/2014/09/luppp-as-oscillator-creating-new-sounds.html -- DJ Dual Core's Blog http://oldmixtapes.blogspot.com/ Order without government; Peace without violence. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pcoccoli at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 21:22:23 2014 From: pcoccoli at gmail.com (Paul Coccoli) Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2014 17:22:23 -0400 Subject: [LAU] fabla GUI doesn't render Message-ID: I just cloned the ntk and fable git repos (well, within the last day or two), installed all the other dependencies, and build fabla. When I run it with jalv.gtk, a window appears but the GUI is not rendered. There's nothing unusual in the output in the shell I ran it from. Starting jalv.gtk with the -d option results in a segfault. This is on fedora 19. jalv-1.4.0-2.fc19.x86_64 cairo-1.12.14-2.fc19.x86_64 cairomm-1.10.0-6.fc19.x86_64 libsndfile-1.0.25-7.fc19.x86_64 lv2-1.6.0-2.fc19.x86_64 Has anyone seen this issue before? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harryhaaren at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 23:00:27 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 00:00:27 +0100 Subject: [LAU] fabla GUI doesn't render In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Paul, Generally, filing a bug report on the OpenAV github project page is better than LAU: https://github.com/harryhaaren/openAV-Fabla I've created an issue for this issue: https://github.com/harryhaaren/openAV-Fabla/issues/33 Lets fix this over there: its the right place for such a discussion. Thanks for reporting, I'll look into this tomorrow afternoon. Cheers, -Harry from OpenAV www.openavproductions.com On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 10:22 PM, Paul Coccoli wrote: > I just cloned the ntk and fable git repos (well, within the last day or > two), installed all the other dependencies, and build fabla. When I run it > with jalv.gtk, a window appears but the GUI is not rendered. There's > nothing unusual in the output in the shell I ran it from. Starting jalv.gtk > with the -d option results in a segfault. > > This is on fedora 19. > > jalv-1.4.0-2.fc19.x86_64 > cairo-1.12.14-2.fc19.x86_64 > cairomm-1.10.0-6.fc19.x86_64 > libsndfile-1.0.25-7.fc19.x86_64 > lv2-1.6.0-2.fc19.x86_64 > > Has anyone seen this issue before? > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -- www.openavproductions.com From simonzwise at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 13:59:52 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 23:59:52 +1000 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: References: <201409050020.13892.gheskett@wdtv.com> <1409897533.5724.55.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <540C64D8.2040902@gmail.com> On 06/09/14 01:49, Kazakore wrote: > When I tried to configure with POP3 with Thunderbird to my Hotmail account (I > know!) it repeatedly told me my password was incorrect, whereas it instantly > configured correctly with IMAP. Therefore all my comparisons so far have been > with IMAP, although extra strain on the internet connection (seems caching works > reasonably with Thunderbird thougg, I just have niggles with interface things.) > Also read Alpine and others actually work far better with IMAP than with POP... > > Also don't know if that was an Hotmail/Outlook server issue or Thunderbird not > liking POP3 but as long as it can cache within a session I can live with it not > always keeping an offline version (although in some ways I would prefer it did.) I'm not wrapped in Thunderbird, but it does provide the things you seem to be after and can deal with big folders reasonably (I keep copies locally, and keep list folders from getting too big by moving old emails to a subfolder each year .... but actually it was several years of this list before size became an issue). I keep meaning to move to mutt, but actually doing the move has always seemed too much hassle. There are options in each account for keeping messages offline with IMAP accounts, on a per folder basis in "Advanced", in "Synchronisation and Storage" POP works fine with each POP server I am using, so it may be a Hotmail issue? "Copies & Folders" lets you choose where your sent messages are stored, if in the same folder then they will be there in threaded view. Threaded view is annoyingly hidden, options sometimes hard to find ... but keyboard shortcuts are very extensive and work for me, and once set up to suit it does what I need. An add-on and an appropriate font means messages show monotype text mode and I can look at html if I want. Simon From blablack at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 15:22:07 2014 From: blablack at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Aur=C3=A9lien_Leblond?=) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 16:22:07 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Hydrogen - multi banks per instrument Message-ID: Hello, I'm currently working on a feature for Hydrogen to have multi banks per instrument. In a nutshell, if you have drum samples with direct and overhead recordings, you can put those together under the instruments - one instrument Snare for example with the band direct and the bank overhead). In the Hydrogen mixer, you can chose how much direct or overhead is needed, changing completely the tone of the drums. You can chose how many banks you have per instrument, and the gain of each bank in a given instrument. A very (very very.......veryveryvery) early version is available here: https://github.com/blablack/hydrogen Very early version as the main feature works, but for example I highly doubt saving/loading songs would work just yet and the mixer GUI goes a bit crazy when banks are added/removed, I'm in the process of a massive testing/bug hunt... I would be very interested to get some early feedback, both on the feature and (for the most courageous) on the code itself. Thanks in advance ladies and gentlemen! Aur?lien From pcoccoli at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 15:57:50 2014 From: pcoccoli at gmail.com (Paul Coccoli) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 11:57:50 -0400 Subject: [LAU] fabla GUI doesn't render In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 6, 2014 at 7:00 PM, Harry van Haaren wrote: > > Hi Paul, > > Generally, filing a bug report on the OpenAV github project page is > better than LAU: > https://github.com/harryhaaren/openAV-Fabla > > I've created an issue for this issue: > https://github.com/harryhaaren/openAV-Fabla/issues/33 > > Lets fix this over there: its the right place for such a discussion. > > Thanks for reporting, I'll look into this tomorrow afternoon. > Cheers, -Harry from OpenAV Ugh. I don't have a github account and don't really want one. >From the trac ticket: Your version of lv2 seems pretty out of date: it was released on Aug 18, 2013. Please upgrade SUIL, LILV, LV2 and thier deps. A new way to draw UI's was introduced, called the "Lv2 Idle Interface", which OpenAV plugins need to draw properly. What version of LV2 does one need? I guess the makefile is out of date: ifeq ($(shell pkg-config --atleast-version=1.4.6 lv2 || echo no), no) $(error "LV2 SDK >= 1.4.6 was not found") endif lv2-1.6.0 is the latest in fedora 19. fedora 20 has 1.8.0; is that new enough? I don't see any reasonable way to determine what "features" an LV2 plugin requires, nor what version of LV2 provides that (perhaps that can be considered a LV2 problem). I don't want to update lv2 from source due to all the installed packages that require it, so no fabla for me. From harryhaaren at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 16:25:39 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2014 17:25:39 +0100 Subject: [LAU] fabla GUI doesn't render In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Paul Coccoli wrote: > What version of LV2 does one need? I guess the makefile is out of date: Yes it is, thanks for reporting, fixed: https://github.com/harryhaaren/openAV-Fabla/commit/358b4768d10e1e6c11b0d3f958108c98c5dd34d8 I'll do a bugfix-release Fabla 1.4 after I fix the "jalv.gtk -d segfault" issue. > lv2-1.6.0 is the latest in fedora 19. fedora 20 has 1.8.0; is that > new enough? Yes, 1.8 is new enough. Please confirm if this fixes the issue, I'll mark the github issue as closed then. Cheers, -Harry -- www.openavproductions.com From jeb at ponderworthy.com Mon Sep 8 02:13:42 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E. Brickman) Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2014 21:13:42 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Rename jackd ports by command line? Message-ID: I'd like to rename jackd ports by command line -- is there a way? -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com From silvain at freeshell.de Mon Sep 8 10:15:06 2014 From: silvain at freeshell.de (F. Silvain) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 12:15:06 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] Rename jackd ports by command line? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1409081213230.7660@freeshell.de> Jonathan E. Brickman, Sep 8 2014: > I'd like to rename jackd ports by command line -- is there a way? Hey Jonathan, jack_alias You'll need to use jack_lsp -A to see the aliases, but jack_connect accepts them automatically. The original portnames will still be visible! > > -- > Jonathan E. Brickman > Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | > http://ponderworthy.com > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > Ta-ta ---- Ffanci * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain From jeb at ponderworthy.com Mon Sep 8 18:12:05 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 18:12:05 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Rename jackd ports by command line? In-Reply-To: <1409081213230.7660@freeshell.de> Message-ID: Mr. Silvain, I thank you very much! Do you happen to know if *both* sets of names then become valid with Jack? Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com ------ Original Message ------ From: "F. Silvain" To: "Jonathan E Brickman" Cc: "linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org" Sent: 9/8/2014 5:15:06 AM Subject: Re: [LAU] Rename jackd ports by command line? >Jonathan E. Brickman, Sep 8 2014: > >> I'd like to rename jackd ports by command line -- is there a way? >Hey Jonathan, >jack_alias >You'll need to use >jack_lsp -A >to see the aliases, but jack_connect accepts them automatically. The >original portnames will still be visible! >> >> -- >> Jonathan E. Brickman >> Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | >> http://ponderworthy.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux-audio-user mailing list >> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org >> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user >> > >Ta-ta >---- >Ffanci >* Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain From silvain at freeshell.de Mon Sep 8 18:22:14 2014 From: silvain at freeshell.de (F. Silvain) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 20:22:14 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] Rename jackd ports by command line? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1409082019050.17706@freeshell.de> Jonathan E Brickman, Sep 8 2014: > Mr. Silvain, I thank you very much! Miss Silvain - or Ms if you must. :) > Do you happen to know if *both* > sets of names then become valid with Jack? Yes they will be. Check jack_lsp -A and you can see already one alias for each system port (ports corresponding to your audio interface. Namely the alsa_pcm ports. But you can give any name, that you wish: jack_alias system:capture_1 funny_thing:get_sound jack_alias client:out_0 xyz:play_right ... Ta-ta ---- Ffanci * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain From carlo.ratm at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 20:35:24 2014 From: carlo.ratm at gmail.com (Carlo Ascani) Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2014 22:35:24 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute Message-ID: "A Passionate Tribute" is a 3 song EP made in Linux. You can hear that on bandcamp: https://lotfi.bandcamp.com/album/a-passionate-tribute-ep or download the tracks from: http://carlorat.me/carpenter.flac http://carlorat.me/fulci.flac http://carlorat.me/bava.flac This is totally hobbystic, I made it just for fun, in my home. My setup looks like this: http://i.imgur.com/9cpuZLe.jpg And yes, the amiga is playing as a soft synth in some part. The acoustic drums were recorded in another house, and they are these: http://linux-audio.4202.n7.nabble.com/A-short-story-from-zero-to-recording-the-drums-in-a-budget-td91632.html Here is a couple of words about song meanings: http://carlorat.me/quote/apassionatetribute/ Cheers -- Carlo Ascani | carlorat.me skype: carloratm irc: carloratm at freenode From gerald.mwangi at gmx.de Tue Sep 9 08:20:04 2014 From: gerald.mwangi at gmx.de (Gerald Mwangi) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 10:20:04 +0200 Subject: [LAU] *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: How far we've come! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540EB834.6020103@gmx.de> +1 Gerald On 09/01/2014 11:26 PM, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > On 09/01/2014 02:31 PM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: > > I would simply like to acknowledge the general core of devs. Without you, we'd all having nothing linux audio to bitch about!! :) I don't care to mention names. They know who they are. I met a few along the way. At San Francisco City Hall of all places!! 1 of which I still see here, 1 I do not. > > I personally rely heavily upon Linux and Linux audio these days. It's cost me extreme little in $$ stacked next to proprietary OS. It's powered several semi pro studio platforms, been used at various gigs over the years to record, perform, etc. > > A toast! :) to those who persist! > > Cheers! > > ~ Russell > > Amen!!! > > > -- > Jonathan E. Brickman > Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > From arve.barsnes at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 12:09:04 2014 From: arve.barsnes at gmail.com (Arve Barsnes) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 14:09:04 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 8 September 2014 22:35, Carlo Ascani wrote: > "A Passionate Tribute" is a 3 song EP made in Linux. > > You can hear that on bandcamp: > https://lotfi.bandcamp.com/album/a-passionate-tribute-ep > or download the tracks from: > That's pretty sweet. I enjoyed that very much! Arve From harryhaaren at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 12:31:11 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 13:31:11 +0100 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 9:35 PM, Carlo Ascani wrote: > "A Passionate Tribute" is a 3 song EP made in Linux. Cool! > My setup looks like this: > http://i.imgur.com/9cpuZLe.jpg Nice, I'd be interested to hear about the workflow / tools you used to sequence the synths: or is it recorded live? Cheers, -Harry -- www.openavproductions.com From carlo.ratm at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 12:37:53 2014 From: carlo.ratm at gmail.com (Carlo Ascani) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 14:37:53 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2014-09-09 14:31 GMT+02:00 Harry van Haaren : > On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 9:35 PM, Carlo Ascani wrote: >> "A Passionate Tribute" is a 3 song EP made in Linux. > Cool! > >> My setup looks like this: >> http://i.imgur.com/9cpuZLe.jpg > > Nice, I'd be interested to hear about the workflow / tools you used to sequence > the synths: or is it recorded live? > Thank you! Most of them are recorded live, otherwise I use renoise as a sequencer. I am working on new tracks, I am trying to get rid of renoise from my workflow and use just Ardour3. -- Carlo Ascani | carlorat.me skype: carloratm irc: carloratm at freenode From jh at brainiac.com Tue Sep 9 12:42:18 2014 From: jh at brainiac.com (Joe Hartley) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 08:42:18 -0400 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140909084218.f38f2e2cb6c1579d52965bb0@brainiac.com> On Mon, 8 Sep 2014 22:35:24 +0200 Carlo Ascani wrote: > My setup looks like this: > http://i.imgur.com/9cpuZLe.jpg > And yes, the amiga is playing as a soft synth in some part. Fantastic, I love that you have an Amiga in the mix. I really miss the Amigas that I had. I did some interesting stuff with Dr. T's sequencer and a Casio CZ101! The Amiga was the first machine I had a sampler for, and the first time I did an edit digitally, I packed away the razor blade and splicing block. -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh at brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Tue Sep 9 13:30:14 2014 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 09:30:14 -0400 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <540F00E6.707@woh.rr.com> On 09/08/2014 04:35 PM, Carlo Ascani wrote: > http://carlorat.me/carpenter.flac > http://carlorat.me/fulci.flac > http://carlorat.me/bava.flac > > So I gather from the labels that you're a fan of giallo and possibly Goblin ? :) Best, dp From carlo.ratm at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 13:36:41 2014 From: carlo.ratm at gmail.com (Carlo Ascani) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 15:36:41 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute In-Reply-To: <540F00E6.707@woh.rr.com> References: <540F00E6.707@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: 2014-09-09 15:30 GMT+02:00 Dave Phillips : > > So I gather from the labels that you're a fan of giallo and possibly Goblin > ? :) > Sure! I love them. -- Carlo Ascani | carlorat.me skype: carloratm irc: carloratm at freenode From dlphillips at woh.rr.com Tue Sep 9 13:48:01 2014 From: dlphillips at woh.rr.com (Dave Phillips) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 09:48:01 -0400 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute In-Reply-To: References: <540F00E6.707@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: <540F0511.70805@woh.rr.com> On 09/09/2014 09:36 AM, Carlo Ascani wrote: > 2014-09-09 15:30 GMT+02:00 Dave Phillips : >> So I gather from the labels that you're a fan of giallo and possibly Goblin >> ? :) >> > Sure! I love them. > > > Very enjoyable tracks, btw, nicely done. Grazie ! dp From jeb at ponderworthy.com Tue Sep 9 14:15:36 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 14:15:36 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Low-latency Bluetooth 96kHz audio? Message-ID: Anyone know if this: http://goldkabel.de/index.php/bluetooth-audio-receiver.html works well with Jackd? Can it run <5ms latency at 96 kHz with a good Bluetooth 3.0 adapter? Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brian at gospacecraft.com Tue Sep 9 14:37:23 2014 From: brian at gospacecraft.com (Brian Sorahan) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 09:37:23 -0500 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute In-Reply-To: <540F0511.70805@woh.rr.com> References: <540F00E6.707@woh.rr.com> <540F0511.70805@woh.rr.com> Message-ID: They Live!! Nice work On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 8:48 AM, Dave Phillips wrote: > > On 09/09/2014 09:36 AM, Carlo Ascani wrote: > >> 2014-09-09 15:30 GMT+02:00 Dave Phillips : >> >>> So I gather from the labels that you're a fan of giallo and possibly >>> Goblin >>> ? :) >>> >>> Sure! I love them. >> >> >> >> > Very enjoyable tracks, btw, nicely done. > > Grazie ! > > dp > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arnold at arnoldarts.de Tue Sep 9 16:58:17 2014 From: arnold at arnoldarts.de (Arnold Krille) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 18:58:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] Low-latency Bluetooth 96kHz audio? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1174470072.13078.1410281897484.JavaMail.open-xchange@ox1.mailbox.org> > Jonathan E Brickman hat am 9. September 2014 um > 16:15 geschrieben: > Anyone know if this: > > http://goldkabel.de/index.php/bluetooth-audio-receiver.html > > works well with Jackd? Can it run <5ms latency at 96 kHz with a good > Bluetooth 3.0 adapter? 24bit/96kHz! Exactly what is needed to stream 16bit/44.1kHz mp3 via bluetooth from mobile phones to the Hifi. It could work as an audio device via linux' bluetooth stack (probably involving pulseaudio at some point). But I don't think it will be capable of <5ms latency given that you are using a shared medium as transport. And I don't think you will need <5ms latency unless you want this to use your Hifi as monitoring for your music-making (and don't have the spare cable). Have fun, Arnold From khirai at ongaku.isa-geek.net Tue Sep 9 16:59:53 2014 From: khirai at ongaku.isa-geek.net (Kelly Hirai) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 12:59:53 -0400 Subject: [LAU] control surfaces Message-ID: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> hey linux audio users, about a year ago i purchased the korg nanokontrol one when they were dumping them to make room for the nanokontrol II. the last month i'm finally getting to using it for some csound live processing. but im beginning to find shortcomings. for one i could use more knobs. also 14bits of resolution would be nice. finally it would be nice if when i reassign the knobs it would be nice to be able start from the values they are operating on. so im looking into the bcr-2000-b by behringer. any linux users had any experience with this device? any other device suggestions for a budget minded music coder? k. From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Sep 9 17:21:48 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 10:21:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Low-latency Bluetooth 96kHz audio? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Sep 2014, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > Anyone know if this: > ? > http://goldkabel.de/index.php/bluetooth-audio-receiver.html > ? > works well with Jackd?? Can it run <5ms latency at 96 kHz with a good > Bluetooth 3.0 adapter? I am assuming you have not yet bought this device. But if you have, the first thing is to find out if there is an alsa driver for it. This page seems to indicate that there is work in this direction but that it is not complete: http://bluetooth-alsa.sourceforge.net/ The fact that pulse has it's own BT IF would also indicate to me that there is no stable ALSA implementation. So while it may work ok in pulse... lowlatency would be a problem (a pulse thing) it looks like not with ALSA (Jackd depends on ALSA unless there is a bluetooth backend for jackd - none that I am aware of) So it looks like Bluetooth audio is not an option for low latency work. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From goemusic at yahoo.fr Tue Sep 9 18:24:59 2014 From: goemusic at yahoo.fr (Frank Kober) Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 20:24:59 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3449118.iOr7JfXWC7@localhost.localdomain> I liked the Carpenter thing a LOT! Well done, cheers Frank On Monday 08 September 2014 22:35:24 Carlo Ascani wrote: > "A Passionate Tribute" is a 3 song EP made in Linux. > > You can hear that on bandcamp: > https://lotfi.bandcamp.com/album/a-passionate-tribute-ep > or download the tracks from: > > http://carlorat.me/carpenter.flac > http://carlorat.me/fulci.flac > http://carlorat.me/bava.flac > > This is totally hobbystic, I made it just for fun, in my home. > My setup looks like this: > http://i.imgur.com/9cpuZLe.jpg > And yes, the amiga is playing as a soft synth in some part. > > The acoustic drums were recorded in another house, and they are these: > http://linux-audio.4202.n7.nabble.com/A-short-story-from-zero-to-recording-t > he-drums-in-a-budget-td91632.html > > Here is a couple of words about song meanings: > http://carlorat.me/quote/apassionatetribute/ > > Cheers From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Tue Sep 9 19:08:00 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 20:08:00 +0100 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140909200800.151cce85@debian> This not really my sort of thing, but the results are very impressive - especially considering the relatively tiny setup in the picture. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Tue Sep 9 21:09:24 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 17:09:24 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Rename jackd ports by command line? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Jonathan E. Brickman wrote: > I'd like to rename jackd ports by command line -- is there a way? > whether there is a way or not, the goal is misguided. what is your actual goal? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeb at ponderworthy.com Tue Sep 9 21:11:03 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 21:11:03 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Rename jackd ports by command line? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The goal is to make my synth box able to plug-and-play two or three diffferent audio interfaces. Right now I have to re"wire" the Jackd connections every time I switch audio interface, and the current plan is to eliminate that using jackd port aliases. Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com ------ Original Message ------ From: "Paul Davis" > To: "Jonathan E Brickman" > Cc: "linux-audio-user" > Sent: 9/9/2014 4:09:24 PM Subject: Re: [LAU] Rename jackd ports by command line? On Sun, Sep 7, 2014 at 10:13 PM, Jonathan E. Brickman > wrote: I'd like to rename jackd ports by command line -- is there a way? whether there is a way or not, the goal is misguided. what is your actual goal? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Sep 10 00:16:56 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 17:16:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 9 Sep 2014, Kelly Hirai wrote: > hey linux audio users, > about a year ago i purchased the korg nanokontrol one when they were > dumping them to make room for the nanokontrol II. the last month i'm > finally getting to using it for some csound live processing. but im > beginning to find shortcomings. for one i could use more knobs. also > 14bits of resolution would be nice. finally it would be nice if when i > reassign the knobs it would be nice to be able start from the values > they are operating on. > > so im looking into the bcr-2000-b by behringer. any linux users had any > experience with this device? any other device suggestions for a budget > minded music coder? Lots of rotary encoders, looks good. I don't have one. The spec does say something like 7 bits for the controllers but 14 bit if you hold down an alt key. As in I think you can get the MS 7 bits by turning and the works by holding down one of the switches. My advice is to read the manual: http://www.behringer.com/assets/BCF2000_BCR2000_M_EN.pdf Then go over to your local music store and ask to try one out. Plug it into your laptop and try things. This is the way I do things... and I don't always buy either :) If you want really cheap :) I have a program that will allow you to have a jack MIDI port from a 10* key computer keyboard (USB). I have seen these for $3 in the local dollar store (I bought three). There is code to use two keys as up/down keys to fake an encoder or pitch control. I used the key rep to go up/down by 2s or 10s. I was able to fake a Mackie control surface (five channels not 8 though). My next trick will be to hook up a real encoder to two of the keys... After we clean up from the small flood we had :( The program is not complete, comes as src and has no ./configure so you would have to figure out what libs you need. (I think the only thing I added was libjack-jackd2-dev over the normal libc stuff) It is based on actkbd (and can be used as such even with the mods I have done). Docs are not there yet :( but follow the same path as the original. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From ivan_521521 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 10 01:13:40 2014 From: ivan_521521 at yahoo.com (Ivan K) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 18:13:40 -0700 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1410311620.60777.YahooMailNeo@web122606.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Why do you have two computer keyboards? Carlo Ascani wrote: > > My setup looks like this: > http://i.imgur.com/9cpuZLe.jpg From jeremy at autostatic.com Wed Sep 10 07:43:45 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:43:45 +0200 Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> Message-ID: <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> On 09/09/2014 06:59 PM, Kelly Hirai wrote: > hey linux audio users, > about a year ago i purchased the korg nanokontrol one when they were > dumping them to make room for the nanokontrol II. the last month i'm > finally getting to using it for some csound live processing. but im > beginning to find shortcomings. for one i could use more knobs. also > 14bits of resolution would be nice. finally it would be nice if when i > reassign the knobs it would be nice to be able start from the values > they are operating on. > > so im looking into the bcr-2000-b by behringer. any linux users had any > experience with this device? any other device suggestions for a budget > minded music coder? > > k. Hello Kelly, I've got both the BCR-2000 and the BCF-2000. Great devices, fully supported. They're super flexible to program too with the help of the BC Manager utility: http://mountainutilities.eu/bcmanager BC Manager runs perfectly with Wine. I can highly recommend these devices. Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jeremy at autostatic.com Wed Sep 10 07:46:45 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:46:45 +0200 Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> Message-ID: <541001E5.4050301@autostatic.com> On 09/10/2014 02:16 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > Lots of rotary encoders, looks good. I don't have one. The spec does say > something like 7 bits for the controllers but 14 bit if you hold down an > alt key. As in I think you can get the MS 7 bits by turning and the > works by holding down one of the switches. My advice is to read the manual: > http://www.behringer.com/assets/BCF2000_BCR2000_M_EN.pdf The BCR/BCF-2000 devices are fully programmable, afaik it is also possible to modify the resolution of each controller. For a hugely extensive manual check here: http://mountainutilities.eu/system/files/download/BCManManual2.5.0.pdf Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Sep 10 16:21:58 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:21:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Sep 2014, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > I've got both the BCR-2000 and the BCF-2000. Great devices, fully I have a question that the documentation doesn't seem to answer (or I am too obtuse to get it). With the encoders, how many ticks do they offer for a full 360 degree turn? It may help to explain my question by making a guess which you can correct. I am guessing that it can do 7 bits(128) ticks in one turn (goes with the selection mode some sw uses) and that in high resolution mode one turn still does 128 ticks so that it would take 128 turns for 0 to full scale. It may be possible to set resolution in between as well. That is, in 14 bit mode, one tick may do 2, 10, 16 or some other number of consecutive 14 bit values. I am also guessing no detents. Some of these assumtions are from a user POV, having 14 bits worth of values in one turn would be very hard to get physical accuracy. That is, it would be very hard for my fingers to turn the encoder one 14 bit tick at a time if they were stuffed into 360 degrees. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From gerald.mwangi at gmx.de Wed Sep 10 16:35:25 2014 From: gerald.mwangi at gmx.de (Gerald Mwangi) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:35:25 +0200 Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <54107DCD.7080500@gmx.de> Hi, I also have the BCR-2000. While it is all in all a good device, the build quality is lacking a bit. It has some rotor-knobs which also act as buttons. Two of these are spoilt with the behaviour that on turning the knob some values are skipped (meaning I have to wind and wind and wind till I have the correct value). But I must say I use it for live performances in a case. So for the studio: Yes I would recommend it. But for live I would opt out for something more rugged (checkout this: https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=144001&start=0) Gerald On 09/10/2014 09:43 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > On 09/09/2014 06:59 PM, Kelly Hirai wrote: >> hey linux audio users, about a year ago i purchased the korg >> nanokontrol one when they were dumping them to make room for the >> nanokontrol II. the last month i'm finally getting to using it >> for some csound live processing. but im beginning to find >> shortcomings. for one i could use more knobs. also 14bits of >> resolution would be nice. finally it would be nice if when i >> reassign the knobs it would be nice to be able start from the >> values they are operating on. >> >> so im looking into the bcr-2000-b by behringer. any linux users >> had any experience with this device? any other device >> suggestions for a budget minded music coder? >> >> k. > > Hello Kelly, > > I've got both the BCR-2000 and the BCF-2000. Great devices, fully > supported. They're super flexible to program too with the help of > the BC Manager utility: http://mountainutilities.eu/bcmanager BC > Manager runs perfectly with Wine. I can highly recommend these > devices. > > Jeremy > > > > > _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user > mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > From nachoen79 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 16:49:34 2014 From: nachoen79 at hotmail.com (Nacho -) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:49:34 +0200 Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: <54107DCD.7080500@gmx.de> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net>, <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com>, <54107DCD.7080500@gmx.de> Message-ID: Also own one BCR-2000 and I do not recommend it. Some of the first row knobs now don't work properly on my unit and has never left my room.It does not seem a reliable device for me, It is tempting, cheap and with all that rotary encoders, but... > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:35:25 +0200 > From: gerald.mwangi at gmx.de > To: linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > Subject: Re: [LAU] control surfaces > > Hi, > I also have the BCR-2000. While it is all in all a good device, the > build quality is lacking a bit. It has some rotor-knobs which also act > as buttons. Two of these are spoilt with the behaviour that on turning > the knob some values are skipped (meaning I have to wind and wind and > wind till I have the correct value). But I must say I use it for live > performances in a case. So for the studio: Yes I would recommend it. > But for live I would opt out for something more rugged (checkout this: > https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=144001&start=0) > Gerald > On 09/10/2014 09:43 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > > On 09/09/2014 06:59 PM, Kelly Hirai wrote: > >> hey linux audio users, about a year ago i purchased the korg > >> nanokontrol one when they were dumping them to make room for the > >> nanokontrol II. the last month i'm finally getting to using it > >> for some csound live processing. but im beginning to find > >> shortcomings. for one i could use more knobs. also 14bits of > >> resolution would be nice. finally it would be nice if when i > >> reassign the knobs it would be nice to be able start from the > >> values they are operating on. > >> > >> so im looking into the bcr-2000-b by behringer. any linux users > >> had any experience with this device? any other device > >> suggestions for a budget minded music coder? > >> > >> k. > > > > Hello Kelly, > > > > I've got both the BCR-2000 and the BCF-2000. Great devices, fully > > supported. They're super flexible to program too with the help of > > the BC Manager utility: http://mountainutilities.eu/bcmanager BC > > Manager runs perfectly with Wine. I can highly recommend these > > devices. > > > > Jeremy > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user > > mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From khirai at ongaku.isa-geek.net Wed Sep 10 17:29:25 2014 From: khirai at ongaku.isa-geek.net (Kelly Hirai) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 13:29:25 -0400 Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <54108A75.6020107@ongaku.isa-geek.net> i'm having to smooth the values of the nano's 7bit knobs to avoid zippering. its not a bad thing and i expect to have to do this at 14bits as well, but there are some sets of values for which i would like them to not fall into the same slots so easily. just curious if anyone knows off the top of there head, for the bcr-2000, when the application decides it wants to reassign the encoder to another parameter and needs it to be a different value (lighting up a different led on the display ring) is this as simple as a midi note on message or is there a lengthy sysex glob that needs to be sent? i've had to fight the dust out of rotary encoders in several devices. behringers included. read timings or dust causing them to do things like jitter forward when you turn them back. that would be kind of a show stopper for me if it was cronic. kelly On 09/10/2014 12:21 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > On Wed, 10 Sep 2014, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > >> I've got both the BCR-2000 and the BCF-2000. Great devices, fully > > I have a question that the documentation doesn't seem to answer (or I > am too obtuse to get it). With the encoders, how many ticks do they > offer for a full 360 degree turn? It may help to explain my question > by making a guess which you can correct. > > I am guessing that it can do 7 bits(128) ticks in one turn (goes with > the selection mode some sw uses) and that in high resolution mode one > turn still does 128 ticks so that it would take 128 turns for 0 to > full scale. It may be possible to set resolution in between as well. > That is, in 14 bit mode, one tick may do 2, 10, 16 or some other > number of consecutive 14 bit values. I am also guessing no detents. > > Some of these assumtions are from a user POV, having 14 bits worth of > values in one turn would be very hard to get physical accuracy. That > is, it would be very hard for my fingers to turn the encoder one 14 > bit tick at a time if they were stuffed into 360 degrees. > > > > -- > Len Ovens > www.ovenwerks.net > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 10 20:02:17 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 22:02:17 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: control surfaces In-Reply-To: References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <1410379337.7588.1.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-10 at 09:21 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > On Wed, 10 Sep 2014, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > > > I've got both the BCR-2000 and the BCF-2000. Great devices, fully > > I have a question that the documentation doesn't seem to answer (or I am > too obtuse to get it). With the encoders, how many ticks do they offer for > a full 360 degree turn? It may help to explain my question by making a > guess which you can correct. > > I am guessing that it can do 7 bits(128) ticks in one turn (goes with the > selection mode some sw uses) and that in high resolution mode one turn > still does 128 ticks so that it would take 128 turns for 0 to full scale. > It may be possible to set resolution in between as well. That is, in 14 > bit mode, one tick may do 2, 10, 16 or some other number of consecutive 14 > bit values. I am also guessing no detents. > > Some of these assumtions are from a user POV, having 14 bits worth of > values in one turn would be very hard to get physical accuracy. That is, > it would be very hard for my fingers to turn the encoder one 14 bit tick > at a time if they were stuffed into 360 degrees. Keep in mind that the 360? of rotary knobs only should be used for some tasks. IMO it would be wise to use less than 360?, to simulate the radius of potentiometers. But I don't know how it's done by digital music mixing consoles. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 10 20:27:52 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 22:27:52 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: control surfaces In-Reply-To: References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> , <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com>, <54107DCD.7080500@gmx.de> Message-ID: <1410380872.7588.3.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-10 at 18:49 +0200, Nacho - wrote: > Also own one BCR-2000 and I do not recommend it. Some of the first row > knobs now don't work properly on my unit and has never left my room. > It does not seem a reliable device for me, It is tempting, cheap and > with all that rotary encoders, but... I don't own those Behringer control devices, but all switches (mute, sub group routing etc.) of my Behringer analog mixer are defect. When unused the mixer is covered with a plastic sheet and the switches were seldom used, they get broken 2 or 3 years after I bought it. Non of the faders suffers from dust, faders and potentiometers are still ok and it's much older than 3 years now. I didn't test Kontakt 60 to clean, Kontakt WL to sluice out and Kontakt 61 to lubricate. Btw. using Kontakt 61 aerosol for faders does avoid fader death after cleaning. The cans lose pressure very soon, perhaps I should open the cans and spray it with my airbrush :D. Anyway, did you test cleaning the knobs using cleaning aerosols and after cleaning it a protection aerosol? From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Wed Sep 10 20:33:19 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 21:33:19 +0100 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: control surfaces In-Reply-To: <1410379337.7588.1.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> <1410379337.7588.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140910213319.7e7a887e@debian> On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 22:02:17 +0200 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Keep in mind that the 360? of rotary knobs only should be used for some > tasks. IMO it would be wise to use less than 360?, to simulate the > radius of potentiometers. But I don't know how it's done by digital > music mixing consoles. Why? What's special about 270 (or so) degrees. It was only ever purely a mechanical limitation. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 10 21:00:49 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 23:00:49 +0200 Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: <20140910213319.7e7a887e@debian> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> <1410379337.7588.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140910213319.7e7a887e@debian> Message-ID: <1410382849.7588.6.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-10 at 21:33 +0100, Will Godfrey wrote: > On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 22:02:17 +0200 > Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > Keep in mind that the 360? of rotary knobs only should be used for some > > tasks. IMO it would be wise to use less than 360?, to simulate the > > radius of potentiometers. But I don't know how it's done by digital > > music mixing consoles. > > Why? What's special about 270 (or so) degrees. It was only ever purely a > mechanical limitation. For some tasks it could be useful to use more than 360?. Btw. even some potentiometers provide more than 360?, there isn't a mechanical limitation. If you e.g. pan from left to right, you likely will use around 180? only. Such a pan likely is done from around 9 o'clock to around 3 o'clock and not from one end to the other. IOW if you want to keep a common audio engineering work flow, stay with what is common for audio gear, IOW around 270? for the full range from one to the other end, so for e.g. panning a good ergonomically handling from around 9 o'clock to around 3 o'clock is provided. My 2 Cents, Ralf From nachoen79 at hotmail.com Wed Sep 10 21:36:44 2014 From: nachoen79 at hotmail.com (Nacho -) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 23:36:44 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: control surfaces In-Reply-To: <1410380872.7588.3.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net>,, <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com>, <54107DCD.7080500@gmx.de>, , <1410380872.7588.3.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: The truth is I've never tried to clean the encoders. I will do that. Thanks for the advice.I don't know why (maybe the same problem with dust on the encoders?) but sometimes, also the display numbers change without touching anything. The Phantom of the bcr... > From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com > To: linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 22:27:52 +0200 > Subject: Re: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: control surfaces > > On Wed, 2014-09-10 at 18:49 +0200, Nacho - wrote: > > Also own one BCR-2000 and I do not recommend it. Some of the first row > > knobs now don't work properly on my unit and has never left my room. > > It does not seem a reliable device for me, It is tempting, cheap and > > with all that rotary encoders, but... > > I don't own those Behringer control devices, but all switches (mute, sub > group routing etc.) of my Behringer analog mixer are defect. When unused > the mixer is covered with a plastic sheet and the switches were seldom > used, they get broken 2 or 3 years after I bought it. Non of the faders > suffers from dust, faders and potentiometers are still ok and it's much > older than 3 years now. I didn't test Kontakt 60 to clean, Kontakt WL to > sluice out and Kontakt 61 to lubricate. Btw. using Kontakt 61 aerosol > for faders does avoid fader death after cleaning. The cans lose pressure > very soon, perhaps I should open the cans and spray it with my > airbrush :D. Anyway, did you test cleaning the knobs using cleaning > aerosols and after cleaning it a protection aerosol? > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Wed Sep 10 23:25:39 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 19:25:39 -0400 Subject: [LAU] html5 audio through jack In-Reply-To: <1409738494.3684.6.camel@espelho> References: <1409395113.3154.5.camel@espelho> <20140831214250.271947d4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140831184541.7d37587a@hacklava.net> <1409738494.3684.6.camel@espelho> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 6:01 AM, Iain Mott wrote: > Thanks Marc - I got it working with these links; installing the > pulseaudio-module-jack package mentioned in the first link, then > preparing the scripts launched by qjackctl in the second. Pretty sure > that's what I did. I also used the .asoundrc as given in my original > post. > I was just faced with this challenge myself (don't ask). I found that switching sinks with PulseAudio was unreliable. I opted to use the ALSA loopback device combined with Jack1's "new" builtin support for Fons' zita-based adapters for any number of additional ALSA devices. I've been using it all day, and it works really, really, really well. Much more reliable than either the ALSA Jack plugin or switching Pulse sinks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From len at ovenwerks.net Wed Sep 10 23:50:16 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 16:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: <54108A75.6020107@ongaku.isa-geek.net> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> <54108A75.6020107@ongaku.isa-geek.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Sep 2014, Kelly Hirai wrote: > i'm having to smooth the values of the nano's 7bit knobs to avoid > zippering. its not a bad thing and i expect to have to do this at 14bits > as well, but there are some sets of values for which i would like them > to not fall into the same slots so easily. > > just curious if anyone knows off the top of there head, for the > bcr-2000, when the application decides it wants to reassign the encoder > to another parameter and needs it to be a different value (lighting up a > different led on the display ring) is this as simple as a midi note on > message or is there a lengthy sysex glob that needs to be sent? The manual says there are two modes for this. One of them is the sysex method, but the other would send the value of each individual control. The second would be the normal performance mode. That is, on most control surfaces, when a bank change happens, the host sw sends to the controller, midi messages to set all LEDs, fader positions and controller possitions. With controller positions, this is only for a controller that is in absolute mode as in/decrement mode would find this meaningless. On a unit with encoders this means the absolute value is stored as a memory value and the encoder in/decrements this stored value so there is no "jump". On a controller with real pots, there will be a jump to the current pot position or the value will not change until the pot is moved past the stored position. (depending on the unit) > i've had to fight the dust out of rotary encoders in several devices. > behringers included. read timings or dust causing them to do things like > jitter forward when you turn them back. that would be kind of a show > stopper for me if it was cronic. Good to know. This probably answers my other question about 360 degree resolution as well. It says to me that these are the cheap mechanical contact type encoders as optical or magnetic encoders do not generally suffer from dust problems (even in places where dust gathers at the rate of about 1/2 inch (1.5 cm) in an 8 hour shift). I can not find high resolution mechanical switch encoders, 32 cycles/rev seems to be at the top end (4 pulses/cycle gives 128 pulses/rev). The cost difference between mechanical switch and optical seems to be about 10:1. Magnetic is less than optical but needs high quantity purchase (not a consideration with the bc2000). Also good to know because I have some mechanical encoders I am using for a project of mine. :) -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 11 00:15:24 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 02:15:24 +0200 Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> ,, <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com>, <54107DCD.7080500@gmx.de> , , <1410380872.7588.3.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1410394524.6546.3.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-10 at 23:36 +0200, Nacho - wrote: > The truth is I've never tried to clean the encoders. I will do that. > Thanks for the advice. > I don't know why (maybe the same problem with dust on the encoders?) > but sometimes, also the display numbers change without touching > anything. The Phantom of the bcr... I don't have (much) experiences with rotary encoders, but I guess optical encoders that aren't well sealed sometimes might need a cleaning too, but not the same kind of cleaning that potentiometers need. An optical mouse react to vibrations, perhaps cheap optical rotary encoder could do the same. You perhaps should find out what kind of encoders are used and then search the web what kind of failure is known for that kind of rotary encoder and as the case may be, how to clean them. From jeremy at autostatic.com Thu Sep 11 06:37:44 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:37:44 +0200 Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: <54108A75.6020107@ongaku.isa-geek.net> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> <54108A75.6020107@ongaku.isa-geek.net> Message-ID: <54114338.8070408@autostatic.com> On 09/10/2014 07:29 PM, Kelly Hirai wrote: > just curious if anyone knows off the top of there head, for the > bcr-2000, when the application decides it wants to reassign the encoder > to another parameter and needs it to be a different value (lighting up a > different led on the display ring) is this as simple as a midi note on > message or is there a lengthy sysex glob that needs to be sent? The BCF/BCR-2000 have MIDI feedback so a (CC) value change in CSound should change the value of the respective encoder on the Behringer device. If you use the LED ring of the encoders it will reflect the change. Or do you mean something else? Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jeremy at autostatic.com Thu Sep 11 06:42:41 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:42:41 +0200 Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: <54108A75.6020107@ongaku.isa-geek.net> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> <54108A75.6020107@ongaku.isa-geek.net> Message-ID: <54114461.4090309@autostatic.com> On 09/10/2014 07:29 PM, Kelly Hirai wrote: > i've had to fight the dust out of rotary encoders in several devices. > behringers included. read timings or dust causing them to do things like > jitter forward when you turn them back. that would be kind of a show > stopper for me if it was cronic. The BCR/BCF-2000 rotary encoders do not suffer from this issue. Bought mine second hand 4 years ago and never had any dust issues. You do need to regularly dust them off or cover them though. But that applies to any equipment of that kind. Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jeremy at autostatic.com Thu Sep 11 06:47:04 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 08:47:04 +0200 Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: <54107DCD.7080500@gmx.de> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> <54107DCD.7080500@gmx.de> Message-ID: <54114568.6020407@autostatic.com> On 09/10/2014 06:35 PM, Gerald Mwangi wrote: > Two of these are spoilt with the behaviour that on turning > the knob some values are skipped (meaning I have to wind and wind and > wind till I have the correct value). Hi Gerald, Did you check with BC Manager if those encoders are programmed the way you want? Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 11 08:11:08 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 10:11:08 +0200 Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: <54114461.4090309@autostatic.com> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> <54108A75.6020107@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54114461.4090309@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <1410423068.813.9.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-11 at 08:42 +0200, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > On 09/10/2014 07:29 PM, Kelly Hirai wrote: > > i've had to fight the dust out of rotary encoders in several devices. > > behringers included. read timings or dust causing them to do things like > > jitter forward when you turn them back. that would be kind of a show > > stopper for me if it was cronic. > > The BCR/BCF-2000 rotary encoders do not suffer from this issue. Bought > mine second hand 4 years ago and never had any dust issues. You do need > to regularly dust them off or cover them though. But that applies to any > equipment of that kind. Does Behringer use the same rotary encoders for each release of those devices? Also to consider, for example, gloopy fine dust from the street is much more aggressive, than house dust, even if house dust comes in combination with cigarette smoke. IOW even identical hardware does behave different, in different locations. Different moisture, different temperature fluctuations etc. could make a big difference, military specifications are not only interesting for the military. Assumed Behringer should use high quality components, than indeed, the location doesn't matter that much and it even wouldn't matter that much, if they replace one high quality component by another high quality component. When I compare the Behringer gear with other gear I own, than even cheap gear from other companies provide more reliable components. I don't know the BCR/BCF-2000, it might be different for those devices. In my Behringer devices even the capacitors' voltage/temperature often is undersized. That's a known issue for switching power supplies used with consumer gear, but shouldn't happen for audio production gear, but Behringer doesn't care. When having not much money, Behringer IMO is a good choice, but to recommend Behringer gear as reliable gear isn't something I could do. YMMV! From jh at brainiac.com Thu Sep 11 15:56:15 2014 From: jh at brainiac.com (Joe Hartley) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 11:56:15 -0400 Subject: [LAU] control surfaces In-Reply-To: <1410423068.813.9.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> <54108A75.6020107@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54114461.4090309@autostatic.com> <1410423068.813.9.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140911115615.091ffa88926e460c5631df6f@brainiac.com> On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 10:11:08 +0200 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Thu, 2014-09-11 at 08:42 +0200, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > > The BCR/BCF-2000 rotary encoders do not suffer from this issue. Bought > > mine second hand 4 years ago and never had any dust issues. You do need > > to regularly dust them off or cover them though. But that applies to any > > equipment of that kind. > > Does Behringer use the same rotary encoders for each release of those > devices? I've had a BCF2000 for ages now and haven't had a problem with dust. > When I compare the Behringer gear with other gear I own, than even cheap > gear from other companies provide more reliable components. I don't know > the BCR/BCF-2000, it might be different for those devices. In my > Behringer devices even the capacitors' voltage/temperature often is > undersized. That's a known issue for switching power supplies used with > consumer gear, but shouldn't happen for audio production gear, but > Behringer doesn't care. I've had enough Behringer gear, incuding mixers and tube preamps, over the years and I've always ended up a bit disappointed in the tone and the build. I think a lot of that comes from the fact that they are almost always ripping off someone else's design and building it on the cheap. The BCF2000 is in sharp contrast to that - I love this thing! The build feels much more solid than the mixer I had and it's always worked really well for me. Since it doesn't produce sound on its own, it can't sound bad. As an old analog and radio guy, I'd much rather push buttons and move faders than tap a mouse, so it's been a joy to work with this both as a physical interface to Ardour's mixer and as a DJ controller with Mixxx for an internet radio station. -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh at brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 11 17:41:39 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 19:41:39 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: control surfaces In-Reply-To: <20140911115615.091ffa88926e460c5631df6f@brainiac.com> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> <54108A75.6020107@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54114461.4090309@autostatic.com> <1410423068.813.9.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140911115615.091ffa88926e460c5631df6f@brainiac.com> Message-ID: <1410457299.29246.1.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-11 at 11:56 -0400, Joe Hartley wrote: > I've had enough Behringer gear, incuding mixers and tube preamps, over > the years and I've always ended up a bit disappointed in the tone and > the build. Regarding to the tone my Behringer gear does sound very good. Friends owned Behringer gear that sounded very bad. The sound quality to price ratio sometimes is very good and sometimes isn't ok. I've seen some very cheap mixers of good build quality, but the sound quality was unusable. Regarding to the build quality my Behringer gear is bottom quality as most Behringer gear I know is too. IMO regarding to the sound quality my ADA8000 (at lest for some tasks) and MODULIZER PRO could be used by professional studios and my EURORACK UB2442FX-PRO could be used by regional radio and for decent home recording. Usability and/or reliability IMO allow home recording only. > I think a lot of that comes from the fact that they are almost always > ripping off someone else's design and building it on the cheap. The Mackie mixer of a friend does look similar to my Behringer mixer. > The BCF2000 is in sharp contrast to that - I love this thing! Ok :). Regards, Ralf From jh at brainiac.com Thu Sep 11 19:02:56 2014 From: jh at brainiac.com (Joe Hartley) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:02:56 -0400 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: control surfaces In-Reply-To: <1410457299.29246.1.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> <54108A75.6020107@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54114461.4090309@autostatic.com> <1410423068.813.9.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140911115615.091ffa88926e460c5631df6f@brainiac.com> <1410457299.29246.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140911150256.2ce688065c5197ac7e7fd18e@brainiac.com> On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 19:41:39 +0200 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > IMO regarding to the sound quality my ADA8000 (at lest for some tasks) > and MODULIZER PRO could be used by professional studios and my EURORACK > UB2442FX-PRO could be used by regional radio and for decent home > recording. Usability and/or reliability IMO allow home recording only. I have a rather old Eurorack mixer (I forget the model, 16 inputs, no DSP) that sounded OK but a number of the switches are flaky and channel 1 has a fair amount of noise. It's just OK and now sits as a backup. I know the ADA line sounds better. I also have a T1953 2 channel tube preamp. This box looks great but has a harsh sound to it that only gets more pronounced as you turn up the "warmth" knobs. It's unusable for vocals but does OK on drum overhead mics. A local club just got a BIG Behringer board that sounds great and impressed me greatly with its controls and sound. I was amazed that it was a Behringer, but I hadn't realized that they'd bought Midas and that it came out of that. -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh at brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa From bruviaro at scu.edu Fri Sep 12 00:11:57 2014 From: bruviaro at scu.edu (Bruno Ruviaro) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:11:57 -0700 Subject: [LAU] A Gentle Introduction to SuperCollider Message-ID: Hi all, I would like to share with everyone this new SuperCollider tutorial I wrote over the Summer. It's specifically written for total beginners, and it's Creative Commons licensed, so feel free to share, copy, distribute, remix...: PDF: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~ruviaro/temp/00_PDF_A_Gentle_Introduction_To_SuperCollider_LULU_2014-09-06.pdf Source files (LaTeX): https://github.com/brunoruviaro/A_Gentle_Introduction_To_SuperCollider ... and in case you'd like a nicely printed copy at cost value: http://www.lulu.com/shop/bruno-ruviaro/a-gentle-introduction-to-supercollider/paperback/product-21802118.html The title is a little homage to Touretzky's Common Lisp book, which I loved when I read it years ago. This tutorial is also very much indebted to David Cottle's intro chapter on the SuperCollider book. I consider this tutorial to be in "beta version" -- I'll try it for the first time in a classroom situation this Fall, and probably will change things over time. So I very much welcome feedback from anyone who cares to read it! Best, Bruno -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jhernberg at alchemy.lu Fri Sep 12 00:43:18 2014 From: jhernberg at alchemy.lu (Joakim Hernberg) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 02:43:18 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: control surfaces In-Reply-To: <20140911150256.2ce688065c5197ac7e7fd18e@brainiac.com> References: <540F3209.30400@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54100131.5040009@autostatic.com> <54108A75.6020107@ongaku.isa-geek.net> <54114461.4090309@autostatic.com> <1410423068.813.9.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140911115615.091ffa88926e460c5631df6f@brainiac.com> <1410457299.29246.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140911150256.2ce688065c5197ac7e7fd18e@brainiac.com> Message-ID: <20140912024318.67b2487f@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> On Thu, 11 Sep 2014 15:02:56 -0400 Joe Hartley wrote: > A local club just got a BIG Behringer board that sounds great and > impressed me greatly with its controls and sound. I was amazed that > it was a Behringer, but I hadn't realized that they'd bought Midas > and that it came out of that. We use an X32, and are impressed by both feature and sound quality, it's also nice that you can record 32 tracks with it, 16 outs too for mains and monitors. -- Joakim From marc at hacklava.net Fri Sep 12 02:29:52 2014 From: marc at hacklava.net (Marc =?UTF-8?B?TGF2YWxsw6ll?=) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 22:29:52 -0400 Subject: [LAU] html5 audio through jack In-Reply-To: References: <1409395113.3154.5.camel@espelho> <20140831214250.271947d4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140831184541.7d37587a@hacklava.net> <1409738494.3684.6.camel@espelho> Message-ID: <20140911222952.79a659ef@hacklava.net> Hi Paul. On Wed, 10 Sep 2014 19:25:39 -0400, Paul Davis wrote : > On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 6:01 AM, Iain Mott > wrote: > > > Thanks Marc - I got it working with these links; installing the > > pulseaudio-module-jack package mentioned in the first link, then > > preparing the scripts launched by qjackctl in the second. Pretty > > sure that's what I did. I also used the .asoundrc as given in my > > original post. > > > > I was just faced with this challenge myself (don't ask). > > I found that switching sinks with PulseAudio was unreliable. I opted > to use the ALSA loopback device combined with Jack1's "new" builtin > support for Fons' zita-based adapters for any number of additional > ALSA devices. > > I've been using it all day, and it works really, really, really well. > Much more reliable than either the ALSA Jack plugin or switching > Pulse sinks. The PulseAudio sink for Jack works, but is unreliable on a laptop when suspending. Jack is also affected when suspending. On a desktop (without suspend), it is solid enough. I tried the method described here: http://alsa.opensrc.org/Jack_and_Loopback_device_as_Alsa-to-Jack_bridge It doesn't work for me; there's interruptions in the sound with Chrome, and it's worse with Firefox (there's echoes...) Can you share your method? Is the zita adapter required? One thing I need is multi-channel support (up to 8). -- Marc From nachoen79 at hotmail.com Fri Sep 12 09:04:35 2014 From: nachoen79 at hotmail.com (Nacho -) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 11:04:35 +0200 Subject: [LAU] A Gentle Introduction to SuperCollider In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey, thanks a lot. Always have been interested on supercollider but I have never learned it properly.I'm totally noob with SC and your tutorial will come great for me.Thanks! Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:11:57 -0700 From: bruviaro at scu.edu To: linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org Subject: [LAU] A Gentle Introduction to SuperCollider Hi all, I would like to share with everyone this new SuperCollider tutorial I wrote over the Summer. It's specifically written for total beginners, and it's Creative Commons licensed, so feel free to share, copy, distribute, remix...: PDF: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~ruviaro/temp/00_PDF_A_Gentle_Introduction_To_SuperCollider_LULU_2014-09-06.pdf Source files (LaTeX): https://github.com/brunoruviaro/A_Gentle_Introduction_To_SuperCollider ... and in case you'd like a nicely printed copy at cost value: http://www.lulu.com/shop/bruno-ruviaro/a-gentle-introduction-to-supercollider/paperback/product-21802118.html The title is a little homage to Touretzky's Common Lisp book, which I loved when I read it years ago. This tutorial is also very much indebted to David Cottle's intro chapter on the SuperCollider book. I consider this tutorial to be in "beta version" -- I'll try it for the first time in a classroom situation this Fall, and probably will change things over time. So I very much welcome feedback from anyone who cares to read it! Best, Bruno _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rncbc at rncbc.org Fri Sep 12 15:54:59 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 16:54:59 +0100 Subject: [LAU] [ANN] Vee One Suite 0.5.1 - One second official beta release! Message-ID: <54131753.4010403@rncbc.org> Howdy, The gang-of-three aka. the Vee One Suite of old-school soft(ware)-instruments, featuring synthv1 [1], a polyphonic synthesizer, samplv1 [2], a polyphonic sampler and drumkv1 [3], as a drum-kit sampler, are once again released in beta phase though. The changes for this one second beta release are the following: - Fixed LV2 plugin relative/absolute file path state resolution. (drumkv1 [3] only). - One decimal digit added to all scalar parameters and knobs. - Stand-alone JACK client ports outrageously renamed from a zero based numbering scheme into a plus one natural one. - Experimental LV2 Time/position atom-event support (Delay BPM). Please, don't hesitate to ask whether any of the above esoteric babbles doesn't get you on to update as soon as you can. One special note goes for all the users out there of drumkv1 [3] LV2 genre: the update is not just interesting but a must, seriously ;). As usual, all is available in dual form: - a pure stand-alone JACK [4] client with JACK-session, NSM [5] (Non Session management) and both JACK MIDI and ALSA [6] MIDI input support; - a LV2 [7] instrument plug-in. The Vee One Suite are free and open-source Linux Audio software, distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL) [8] version 2 or later. The gore details are as follows ;) * synthv1 - an old-school polyphonic synthesizer [1] * synthv1 0.5.1 (second official beta) is out! synthv1 is an old-school all-digital 4-oscillator subtractive polyphonic synthesizer with stereo fx. LV2 URI: http://synthv1.sourceforge.net/lv2 website: http://synthv1.sourceforge.net downloads: http://sourceforge.net/projects/synthv1/files - source tarball: http://download.sourceforge.net/synthv1/synthv1-0.5.1.tar.gz - source package: http://download.sourceforge.net/synthv1synthv1-0.5.1-18.rncbc.suse131.src.rpm - binary packages: http://download.sourceforge.net/synthv1synthv1-0.5.1-18.rncbc.suse131.i586.rpm http://download.sourceforge.net/synthv1synthv1-0.5.1-18.rncbc.suse131.x86_84.rpm * samplv1 - an old-school polyphonic sampler [2] * samplv1 0.5.1 (second official beta) is out! samplv1 is an old-school polyphonic sampler synthesizer with stereo fx. LV2 URI: http://samplv1.sourceforge.net/lv2 website: http://samplv1.sourceforge.net downloads: http://sourceforge.net/projects/samplv1/files - source tarball: http://download.sourceforge.net/samplv1/samplv1-0.5.1.tar.gz - source package: http://download.sourceforge.net/samplv1/samplv1-0.5.1-18.rncbc.suse131.src.rpm - binary packages: http://download.sourceforge.net/samplv1/samplv1-0.5.1-18.rncbc.suse131.i586.rpm http://download.sourceforge.net/samplv1/samplv1-0.5.1-18.rncbc.suse131.x86_84.rpm * drumkv1 - an old-school drum-kit sampler [3] * drumkv1 0.5.1 (second official beta) is out! drumkv1 an old-school drum-kit sampler synthesizer with stereo fx. LV2 URI: http://drumkv1.sourceforge.net/lv2 website: http://drumkv1.sourceforge.net downloads: http://sourceforge.net/projects/drumkv1/files - source tarball: http://download.sourceforge.net/drumkv1/drumkv1-0.5.1.tar.gz - source package: http://download.sourceforge.net/drumkv1/drumkv1-0.5.1-14.rncbc.suse131.src.rpm - binary packages: http://download.sourceforge.net/drumkv1/drumkv1-0.5.1-14.rncbc.suse131.i586.rpm http://download.sourceforge.net/drumkv1/drumkv1-0.5.1-14.rncbc.suse131.x86_84.rpm References: [1] synthv1 - an old-school polyphonic synthesizer http://synthv1.sourceforge.net/ [2] samplv1 - an old-school polyphonic sampler http://samplv1.sourceforge.net/ [3] drumkv1 - an old-school drum-kit sampler http://drumkv1.sourceforge.net/ [4] JACK Audio Connection Kit http://jackaudio.org/ [5] NSM, Non Session Management http://non.tuxfamily.org/nsm/ [6] ALSA, Advanced Linux Sound Architecture http://www.alsa-project.org/ [7] LV2, Audio Plugin Standard, the extensible successor of LADSPA http://lv2plug.in/ [8] GNU General Public License http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html See also: http://www.rncbc.org/drupal/node/815 Enjoy && have fun. -- rncbc aka. Rui Nuno Capela From hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 19:13:24 2014 From: hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com (Russell Hanaghan) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 12:13:24 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import Message-ID: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> Hey all, So I know a standard exists for Pro tools to save to a interchangeable format for import to Mixbus via a 3rd party software app. Forget the names. Point is, it would be awesome to be able to save basic sessions in Ardour and be able to import the track info, edits, etc, into say, Qtractor or Muse or whatever. What's out there per open source or proprietary solutions. Is this something that could be collaborated on in house so to speak? I use Mixbus for the most part. But for live recording on an older sony Vaio, it's just too much of a CPU pig! Qtractor is a 1st choice solution for me. After the session has been saved, it would be great to be able to import that session to Ardour / Mixbus. Lining up all track data manually is a pita! Thoughts? Work arounds? Other open source DAW's? Fanx! :) ~ Russell From harryhaaren at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 19:22:03 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 20:22:03 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: > So I know a standard exists for Pro tools to save to a interchangeable format for import to Mixbus via a 3rd party software app. Forget the names. http://www.aatranslator.com.au/ > Point is, it would be awesome to be able to save basic sessions in Ardour and be able to import the track info, edits, etc, into say, Qtractor or Muse or whatever. > What's out there per open source or proprietary solutions. Is this something that could be collaborated on in house so to speak? Scripts, python perhaps. Ardour sessions are XML, QTractor sessions are XML, Luppp uses JSON. All easy to work with in Python. Extract # audio tracks, and audio-regions, convert to "unified" format in Python script, export "unified python" to whatever target DAW. > Thoughts? Yes, have thought about this, and discussed with Rui / Paul on #irc :) > Work arounds? Other open source DAW's? No need, this just needs "doing". Developer time, and priority of # of users for such functionality are the things to overcome here IMO. HTH, -Harry --- www.openavproductions.com From idragosani at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 19:26:45 2014 From: idragosani at gmail.com (Brett McCoy) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 15:26:45 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 3:13 PM, Russell Hanaghan < hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com> wrote: > Hey all, > > So I know a standard exists for Pro tools to save to a interchangeable > format for import to Mixbus via a 3rd party software app. Forget the names. > > Point is, it would be awesome to be able to save basic sessions in Ardour > and be able to import the track info, edits, etc, into say, Qtractor or > Muse or whatever. > > What's out there per open source or proprietary solutions. Is this > something that could be collaborated on in house so to speak? > > I use Mixbus for the most part. But for live recording on an older sony > Vaio, it's just too much of a CPU pig! Qtractor is a 1st choice solution > for me. After the session has been saved, it would be great to be able to > import that session to Ardour / Mixbus. Lining up all track data manually > is a pita! > > Thoughts? Work arounds? Other open source DAW's? > I use AATranslater to move sessions between different DAWs, but it only support Ardour2/Mixbus for import/export and Ardour3 for import only, as far as open source session formats go. Easiest thing to do is to export all stems (Ardour3 does this quite easily) and then just import those back into another DAW as a group. Most will automatically align the tracks to session start or to playhead/edit point. -- Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world." -- Jelaleddin Rumi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jh at brainiac.com Fri Sep 12 19:53:18 2014 From: jh at brainiac.com (Joe Hartley) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 15:53:18 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 15:26:45 -0400 Brett McCoy wrote: > I use AATranslater to move sessions between different DAWs, but it only > support Ardour2/Mixbus for import/export and Ardour3 for import only, as > far as open source session formats go. Easiest thing to do is to export all > stems (Ardour3 does this quite easily) and then just import those back into > another DAW as a group. Most will automatically align the tracks to session > start or to playhead/edit point. Came here to say exactly this. Trying to get stems from some people has been like pulling teeth for me; others bring sessions to me with no access to the original DAW, usually naively assuming that I have every DAW ever made available to me. AATrasnslator's been a big win for these cases. When I'm done with a session, the client gets both effected and uneffected stems along with the final mixes. Everybody's always been happy with that. -- ====================================================================== Joe Hartley - UNIX/network Consultant - jh at brainiac.com Without deviation from the norm, "progress" is not possible. - FZappa From hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 20:15:26 2014 From: hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com (Russell Hanaghan) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:15:26 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> Message-ID: <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> > On Sep 12, 2014, at 12:53 PM, Joe Hartley wrote: > > On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 15:26:45 -0400 > Brett McCoy wrote: >> I use AATranslater to move sessions between different DAWs, but it only >> support Ardour2/Mixbus for import/export and Ardour3 for import only, as >> far as open source session formats go. Easiest thing to do is to export all >> stems (Ardour3 does this quite easily) and then just import those back into >> another DAW as a group. Most will automatically align the tracks to session >> start or to playhead/edit point. > > Came here to say exactly this. Trying to get stems from some people has > been like pulling teeth for me; others bring sessions to me with no access > to the original DAW, usually naively assuming that I have every DAW ever made > available to me. AATrasnslator's been a big win for these cases. > > When I'm done with a session, the client gets both effected and uneffected > stems along with the final mixes. Everybody's always been happy with that. Hmm, $60us by the looks? Not too much money by any means if it works reliably. Just curious if any devs are into writing something simple? I can provide testing assistance only. Just sounds like a cool and relative thing to have in the open source world. From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Fri Sep 12 20:35:39 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 21:35:39 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20140912213539.1449e29a@debian> On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:15:26 -0700 Russell Hanaghan wrote: > Hmm, $60us by the looks? Not too much money by any means if it works reliably. Is this some new form of high frequency trading? Dollars per microsecond :o OKOK just getting my coat :) -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com Fri Sep 12 20:41:16 2014 From: hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com (Russell Hanaghan) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:41:16 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <20140912213539.1449e29a@debian> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> <20140912213539.1449e29a@debian> Message-ID: <3387F209-FC7D-4E95-9AC5-EFB682908CD2@gmail.com> ~ Russell > On Sep 12, 2014, at 1:35 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > > On Fri, 12 Sep 2014 13:15:26 -0700 > Russell Hanaghan wrote: > >> Hmm, $60us by the looks? Not too much money by any means if it works reliably. > > Is this some new form of high frequency trading? Dollars per microsecond :o > > OKOK just getting my coat :) > Funny! :) Yet, I sure feel like I live in that kind of world somedays!! In John Hurt voice: " I am NOT an ANIMAL! I am a musician!!" Aka, GREENBAKS baby! From jeb at ponderworthy.com Fri Sep 12 23:33:37 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E. Brickman) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 18:33:37 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Suppress the GUI of calfjackhost? Message-ID: I'd love to be able to run one of my standard calfjackhost chains, with a command-line switch to suppress GUI. Is there a way? -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com From jeb at ponderworthy.com Fri Sep 12 23:38:41 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E. Brickman) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 18:38:41 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Rename jackd ports by command line? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >> I'd like to rename jackd ports by command line -- is there a way? >> >> >> whether there is a way or not, the goal is misguided. what is your >> actual goal? It seems that you are right again -- somehow my "wires" work across hardware changes, even though the names of the ports are very different, I have been trying between Behringer FCA202 firewire and Prosonus USB. Are there "hidden" jackd port names or other default designations (something like "default output port #0 and #1") which make this work so nicely? -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com From listac at nebelschwaden.de Sat Sep 13 13:44:33 2014 From: listac at nebelschwaden.de (Ede Wolf) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 15:44:33 +0200 Subject: [LAU] another cpu question Message-ID: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> Hello all, I may be putting together a box dedicated just to act as a multitrack effects unit - without planning any recording. The effects stack will for most channels most likely look like this: reverb, delay, EQ and maybe one of flanger, chorus or rather seldomly compression. Anyway, just the classics, planning so far to only to install the calf and invada lv2 packages. Though I am open for recommendations here, too. And of course I am looking for a suitable effects host/rack. However, I do suppose, the reverb will be the most cpu consuming item and I am wondering, what feature an a cpu should I be primarily looking for? I guess, for effects, especially reverb, the floating point performance will be paramount? As HT generally has a bad reputation for audio, currently, the AMD FX-8350 is on top of my list, as the floating point preformance is said to be rather good and lots of cores should be ideal for running lots of effects in parallel - though unfortunately not every core does have its on FPU. As it is not going to run 24/7, the insane energy consumption is somewhat acceptable. But, beeing no coder, I may be completely off track with my conceptions here, so I am asking for some more insight or alternative recommendations, maybe even with a short reasoning Thanks Ede From len at ovenwerks.net Sat Sep 13 16:14:43 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 09:14:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Sep 2014, Ede Wolf wrote: > I may be putting together a box dedicated just to act as a multitrack effects > unit - without planning any recording. The effects stack will for most My guess is that this will be used live then? So you must have an audio interface in mind and a channel count. I am guessing that this will end up rackmount with a MB that has PCI(e) slots? Will it have a gui screen? or be run via MIDI/OSC/custom control surface? (I would recomend something sort of standard as it may be nice to have a MIDI control surface on a desk particularly for EQ use... though a touch notepad Interface might work too) > channels most likely look like this: reverb, delay, EQ and maybe one of > flanger, chorus or rather seldomly compression. Anyway, just the classics, > planning so far to only to install the calf and invada lv2 packages. Though I > am open for recommendations here, too. And of course I am looking for a > suitable effects host/rack. Because you have (I would guess) a set number of channels you have the option of looking at either a multitrack mixer such as non-mixer or a set of stereo racks. I would put all the possible effects in line but have the ones not used bypassed... at least I would try that. This is so that it is easy to set up a midi controller. I suppose I should also ask if you are going to do any of your own coding to glue this together. You will probably at least need some shell scripts to set things up unless you will have some sort of UI that will allow manually setting this up every time. Another question... Will X run? Or will you be running all CLI? > However, I do suppose, the reverb will be the most cpu consuming item and I > am wondering, what feature an a cpu should I be primarily looking for? I > guess, for effects, especially reverb, the floating point performance will be > paramount? Without a track count, it is hard to know. multitrack could be 4 or 24 tracks. Even then, it would be hard to tell as I have found changing parameters within a plugin can change cpu use of that plugin. Of course knowing what latency your IF is capable of and the latency you intend to use is important too. It would be pretty easy to say that a dual xeon board would handle it, but then one of the new 8 core atom boards may work just as well... note: I don't know how far a single audio chain can be split over cores. WRT reverb: Do you really want each track to have it's own reverb? Having one reverb (or two) service a number of tracks through sends is not only done to conserve CPU cycles. It also lets the sounds be in the same virual acoustic space. However, setting up the sasme reverb 5 times does allow each track to be dealt with separately. Another question: will you be mixing the outputs? (sometimes, never) > As HT generally has a bad reputation for audio, currently, the AMD FX-8350 is > on top of my list, as the floating point preformance is said to be rather > good and lots of cores should be ideal for running lots of effects in > parallel - though unfortunately not every core does have its on FPU. As it is > not going to run 24/7, the insane energy consumption is somewhat acceptable. > > But, beeing no coder, I may be completely off track with my conceptions here, > so I am asking for some more insight or alternative recommendations, maybe > even with a short reasoning What parts do you already have? What is your budget? What is your reason for wanting to do this in a computer rather than just buying something that has these things. By the time you buy the interface ($500 for 8 i/o), case, MB, CPU, memory, PS, HD, midi controller and PCIe card for the audio IF... you are getting close to the $2000 mark already. (this is noting that you said this is a one use box) You can buy a digital mixer with 16 channels already. You have said that there is not some effect that you want in particular, but generic effects. Look at: http://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/qu-16/ ~$2100 http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X32-RACK.aspx ~$1200 (Sweetwater) I am sure there are others too. This is not to say your project is not valid. I am just trying to make sure you have some perspective. BTW, the units I pointed out do not use one fast CPU, but a number of ARM and DSP units. If you already have most of the parts on hand... particularly if you have a spare computer even with only two inputs. I would try it out with that for two tracks so you have an idea of what sw is around. You can try more tracks than two by just setting them up, as jack does not care if inputs are physical or not. Playing back *.wav files does not take much cpu. I was able to do quite a lot with just an old P4 even at low latency, The new i5 already makes audio use much less cpu. (even with jack set 16/2) All of todays CPUs are beyond yesterdays super chips. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From listac at nebelschwaden.de Sat Sep 13 17:44:19 2014 From: listac at nebelschwaden.de (Ede Wolf) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 19:44:19 +0200 Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: <54148273.8080703@nebelschwaden.de> Thanks for reply. it is kind of live use. But not on stage, but in my humble homestudio. So I do not have to be mobile, but I am not arranging, I am just playing live - that is, enjoy turning a lot of knobs without any real clue. And if it sounds crap for a given day, I at least do enjoy all the blinking lights. The card is an old RME Hammerfall (not even DSP), and I'll be using X with a standard distro. Gentoo or Arch - or maybe KX, if they really should drop ubuntu as a base, as I've read somewhere. Depending on the software I'll be using in the end. So we are talking about a simple desktop PC in a tower case with an 21" CRT Monitor. About multitrack: Being able to run 32 effects (8 Tracks x 4) would be great, 16 tracks perfect, but my budget is not infinite and I doubt I'll really use 16 Tracks at once. And most likely not really reverb on all tracks, that is just the worst case to find out a proper CPU. However, there will be differnt rooms on different tracks. There is still an external master reverb inserted into main mix. If so desired. Maybe I'll try to control some of the effects via Midi - I do own an old Doepfer Drehbank controller, but not sure, wether I'll have the patience to program it before winter. Maybe handy for the EQ. But it's also occupied for the microwave II. However, EQing with a mouse is a PITA and something I will have to solve sooner or later. Way worse then setting up reverb or delay. imho. I do not plan to use effects via aux sends, just stack one on top of the others in a serial manner - as if I would do, if I had 8 hardware effect devices plugged into my mixer. There won't be any mixing (as in mastering) - at least not on this box, I am oldfashioned and need real faders. I do have another box for recording - mostly straight to /dev/null, that is unfortunately. This box will just be plugged into the inserts of my mixer - therefore the ideal of 16tracks - which I suppose will be cheaper and better to use than buying a couple of multieffects. I do not have any more ADDA convertes anyway. And for my lousy ears, the quality of named plugins is more than adequate. So it's basically -> jack-in->effect1-effect2-effect3-effect4->jack-out with 16 permanent physical connections bewteen soundcard and mixer. Though not all of them will be used at once. I do have the soundcard (which I finally do inted to use properly after all those years) and the ADDA converters, the screen, SSD and the case. All I need is a mainboard, CPU+cooling and some RAM. And maybe an el cheapo graphics card, if going the AMD route. I doubt I'll get usable multitrack hardware for that money. Sure, I am screwd if one of those parts breaks, it's all yesterdays jam and hard to get besides waiting for ebay. The price limit is a bit difficult as prices are varying between countries. As I've said, an upper class intel i5 or AMD is about what I am thinking of, until general consesus is, that there is no way to accomplish this with standard, upper class (as opposed to high end) PCs. Then maybe I'll wait a little more and save some money. But, as you mentioned, I do remeber running softwareeffects, even not really in parallel, way back on an 2GHz AMD 3200 in decent quality even on WIndows, so a modern multicore, I would suspect, should be able to run a couple of them. Just which would be the best bet. For hardware devices: Behringer is out of discussion. As is Alesis. I do have a couple of midiverbs and found the quality of calf to be way better. If maybe not for the algorithms, then at least for the noise level. Indeed, I am planning to sell those. For peace with my drumheads and of course for better useability. So again - are plugins really FPU heavy? Or would it be more important to have feature X, like AVX or SSE27 or so? Unfortunately I am not really into this recent hardware stuff and all the latest buzzwords. And I usually do not trust benchmarks, but that's all I have and the FX series did quite well in some so called media benchmarks, like rendering, however, I am not sure whether this can be tranferred to running multiple audio effects without problems. AS maybe rendering is just two fast threads instead of 16 medium ones. Dunno. The price advantage for the AMD would probably be eaten up by the more expensive colling - I prefer it rather quiet - and the higher energy bill. But if it would be the more adequate CPU for this very workload, I would go that route. i7 are all HT, so that would leave the i5 as only other option. Am 13.09.2014 18:14, schrieb Len Ovens: > On Sat, 13 Sep 2014, Ede Wolf wrote: > >> I may be putting together a box dedicated just to act as a multitrack >> effects unit - without planning any recording. The effects stack will >> for most > > My guess is that this will be used live then? So you must have an audio > interface in mind and a channel count. I am guessing that this will end > up rackmount with a MB that has PCI(e) slots? Will it have a gui screen? > or be run via MIDI/OSC/custom control surface? (I would recomend > something sort of standard as it may be nice to have a MIDI control > surface on a desk particularly for EQ use... though a touch notepad > Interface might work too) > >> channels most likely look like this: reverb, delay, EQ and maybe one >> of flanger, chorus or rather seldomly compression. Anyway, just the >> classics, planning so far to only to install the calf and invada lv2 >> packages. Though I am open for recommendations here, too. And of >> course I am looking for a suitable effects host/rack. > > Because you have (I would guess) a set number of channels you have the > option of looking at either a multitrack mixer such as non-mixer or a > set of stereo racks. I would put all the possible effects in line but > have the ones not used bypassed... at least I would try that. This is so > that it is easy to set up a midi controller. I suppose I should also ask > if you are going to do any of your own coding to glue this together. You > will probably at least need some shell scripts to set things up unless > you will have some sort of UI that will allow manually setting this up > every time. > > Another question... Will X run? Or will you be running all CLI? > >> However, I do suppose, the reverb will be the most cpu consuming item >> and I am wondering, what feature an a cpu should I be primarily >> looking for? I guess, for effects, especially reverb, the floating >> point performance will be paramount? > > Without a track count, it is hard to know. multitrack could be 4 or 24 > tracks. Even then, it would be hard to tell as I have found changing > parameters within a plugin can change cpu use of that plugin. Of course > knowing what latency your IF is capable of and the latency you intend to > use is important too. It would be pretty easy to say that a dual xeon > board would handle it, but then one of the new 8 core atom boards may > work just as well... note: I don't know how far a single audio chain can > be split over cores. > > WRT reverb: Do you really want each track to have it's own reverb? > Having one reverb (or two) service a number of tracks through sends is > not only done to conserve CPU cycles. It also lets the sounds be in the > same virual acoustic space. However, setting up the sasme reverb 5 times > does allow each track to be dealt with separately. > > Another question: will you be mixing the outputs? (sometimes, never) > >> As HT generally has a bad reputation for audio, currently, the AMD >> FX-8350 is on top of my list, as the floating point preformance is >> said to be rather good and lots of cores should be ideal for running >> lots of effects in parallel - though unfortunately not every core does >> have its on FPU. As it is not going to run 24/7, the insane energy >> consumption is somewhat acceptable. >> >> But, beeing no coder, I may be completely off track with my >> conceptions here, so I am asking for some more insight or alternative >> recommendations, maybe even with a short reasoning > > What parts do you already have? What is your budget? What is your reason > for wanting to do this in a computer rather than just buying something > that has these things. By the time you buy the interface ($500 for 8 > i/o), case, MB, CPU, memory, PS, HD, midi controller and PCIe card for > the audio IF... you are getting close to the $2000 mark already. (this > is noting that you said this is a one use box) You can buy a digital > mixer with 16 channels already. You have said that there is not some > effect that you want in particular, but generic effects. > > Look at: > http://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/qu-16/ ~$2100 > http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X32-RACK.aspx ~$1200 (Sweetwater) > > I am sure there are others too. > > This is not to say your project is not valid. I am just trying to make > sure you have some perspective. BTW, the units I pointed out do not use > one fast CPU, but a number of ARM and DSP units. If you already have > most of the parts on hand... particularly if you have a spare computer > even with only two inputs. I would try it out with that for two tracks > so you have an idea of what sw is around. You can try more tracks than > two by just setting them up, as jack does not care if inputs are > physical or not. Playing back *.wav files does not take much cpu. > > I was able to do quite a lot with just an old P4 even at low latency, > The new i5 already makes audio use much less cpu. (even with jack set > 16/2) All of todays CPUs are beyond yesterdays super chips. > > -- > Len Ovens > www.ovenwerks.net > From fons at linuxaudio.org Sat Sep 13 18:47:39 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 18:47:39 +0000 Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: <20140913184739.GA23354@linuxaudio.org> On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 03:44:33PM +0200, Ede Wolf wrote: > The effects stack will for most channels most likely look like this: > reverb, delay, EQ and maybe one of flanger, chorus or rather > seldomly compression. > > ... > > However, I do suppose, the reverb will be the most cpu consuming > item But why on earth would you have a separate reverb on each track ? There is no need to do this even if you want to control the amount of reverb on each track separately. And mixing different reverbs is almost never a good idea, apart from maybe some special one on solo voice. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From robin at gareus.org Sat Sep 13 19:19:06 2014 From: robin at gareus.org (Robin Gareus) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 21:19:06 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Ardour memory usage -- was Re: A short story: from zero to recording the drums in a budget In-Reply-To: <20140722095445.GB6051@linuxaudio.org> References: <53CD6F72.20903@gareus.org> <20140722082321.GA6051@linuxaudio.org> <20140722091947.GA3130@sprite> <20140722095445.GB6051@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <541498AA.1040204@gareus.org> Hi, Let me pick up this thread again. On 07/22/2014 11:54 AM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 11:19:47PM -1000, Joel Roth wrote: >> Carlo Ascani wrote: >>> 2014-07-22 10:23 GMT+02:00 Fons Adriaensen : >>>> >>>> I've got a similar setup: 512M, Arch + windowmaker, >>>> but can't get A3 to run on it in any usable way - it >>>> just eats too much memory. It's amazing, even my now almost 7 year old Thinkpad came with 2GB RAM, and asking around, most people have at least 4, or 8 GB RAM these days. Still, Ardour3's memory usage just became [much] better. (git cairocanvas branch) >>>> Any tricks ?? yes, see below. >>> And honestly, the only thing I am able to do with so little ram >>> is to record. No way I can do editing, and plugins neither. >> > It's A3 taking something like 330 MB just for an empty > session. The only thing I'd want to do with this system > is recording (which worked perfectly well for years using > A2), no plugins or anything else. > An empty session is down to 96MB RSS now, (20MB on the heap, the rest for code+stacks), a bit more when running with jackd instead of Ardour's ALSA backend (100-200MB depending on jack's i/o count - but that mem is shared with jackd and actually jackd's). Adding a track to ardour adds about 2MB per channel (default 5 sec buffers @48KSPS for in/out) to that. Previously an empty session took around 300MB RSS here. Depending on how you do statistics, that's an improvement of over 300%. To optimize further: Compiling ardour without lv2 and VST support can help. The initial plugin scan (at application start) can still use quite a bit, depending on the number of plugins and the plugins themselves. That memory is now free()ed before the session is loaded, but there can be initial peaks. There are a few more places where memory consumption could be optimized but the time it'd take to squeeze out the last few MBytes is likely worth much more than buying all remaining users with only 512MB RAM an extra GB :) Kudos to the valgrind team and their brilliant massif tool! Cheers! robin From listac at nebelschwaden.de Sat Sep 13 19:42:07 2014 From: listac at nebelschwaden.de (Ede Wolf) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 21:42:07 +0200 Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: <20140913184739.GA23354@linuxaudio.org> References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> <20140913184739.GA23354@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <54149E0F.6030600@nebelschwaden.de> Because it can be useful to put f.e. drums, rather parts of it, in a very small room, maybe even lofi - just to change or slightly fatten the sound but not use this very room for anything else? I do not use those settings for a global reverb and just controlling the amount with the aux sends as the settings are completely different. Same is true basically for synth - nearly each digital synth and most modern analog ones have their own effects unit used to enhance or shape a sound - and nearly always a reverb plays an important part. You hardly turn that off because of a global reverb I believe you are referring to. Again, I am not mastering or producing, I am creating sounds which I hope will play well together. Each track servers one instrument, and each instrument may or may not have an own room. Harmonizing that is a challenge, but there we go. The reverb, if not used too extreme, is foremost part of the sound, not of the mix, though of course one can easily ruin the other, if not used carefully. No doubts here, again, that's part of the challenge. But, while I would not mind to open an extra thread for this, I just would like to use this thread for CPU and/or Software recommendations - and not focus too much on the reverb. I just believe, that a reverb is most likely the most complex effect requiring the most CPU power. I may be wrong here, too, that's why I am asking. I am not even claiming I will be using a reverb on each channel, but I would like to setup the rack for each track in such a manner as I do not want to play around too much with it. Set up 16 tracks and the ones not used, well, are muted. I just want to set up the rack once with somewhat sane defaults and then use it. In other words, I want to start that application and have a rack with 16 cahnnels and 3 or 4 effects in each. Set up ready to use. Of course I will need to adapt the settings anyway, but basically it will start up the a reverb, a delay and an EQ in each channel. As those are the most commony used so far. That does not mean, that all are active all the time, but if it sounds crap, I would like it not to be the CPUs fault. I want to minimize the time spent with the computer. Making it as much an appliance as possible. But sure, it'll need some attention. Quite simple: I am looking the the best available CPU for whatever effects calf or invada are offering running as much of them in parallel as proves to be sensible - and usable. And how much is sensible for a given set shall be decided by my ears, not by the CPU. So if I am asking for a CPU that _could_ run HQ reverb on 16 channels in parallel does not mean I will be doing that. But if it could do that, it surely will be powerfull enough to run any other effect desired. That's my theory and I do not mind at all getting proved wrong. In fact, that's why I am asking. Some people here are coders, as are you, and know, what "part" of a cpu is used most for their algorithms. Or so I hope and was asking for a recommendation. Sure my fault, I wrote too much, again, I just had a simple question: Which (not too high end) CPU would you recommend for running as many lv2 effects in parallel as possible. And why, if you are kind enough to share. I do not care for ladspa, vst, dssi, softsynths or recording. Just a little midi for the delay, but that is not toooo timing critical (please don't get off on this, I am not saying it does not matter, but a _minimal_ shuffle in timing is quite acceptable for a tapped delay) Just send audio from a mixing consoles insert, process the audio as fast as possible and get it back to the mixer. On as much channels as reasonable possible. And if not all are used at once, then speedstep is happy. Am 13.09.2014 20:47, schrieb Fons Adriaensen: > On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 03:44:33PM +0200, Ede Wolf wrote: > >> The effects stack will for most channels most likely look like this: >> reverb, delay, EQ and maybe one of flanger, chorus or rather >> seldomly compression. >> >> ... >> >> However, I do suppose, the reverb will be the most cpu consuming >> item > > But why on earth would you have a separate reverb on each track ? > There is no need to do this even if you want to control the amount > of reverb on each track separately. And mixing different reverbs > is almost never a good idea, apart from maybe some special one on > solo voice. > > Ciao, > From len at ovenwerks.net Sat Sep 13 19:39:59 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 12:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: <54148273.8080703@nebelschwaden.de> References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> <54148273.8080703@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Sep 2014, Ede Wolf wrote: > it is kind of live use. But not on stage, but in my humble homestudio. So I > do not have to be mobile, but I am not arranging, I am just playing live - > that is, enjoy turning a lot of knobs without any real clue. And if it sounds > crap for a given day, I at least do enjoy all the blinking lights. > > The card is an old RME Hammerfall (not even DSP), and I'll be using X with a > standard distro. Gentoo or Arch - or maybe KX, if they really should drop > ubuntu as a base, as I've read somewhere. Depending on the software I'll be > using in the end. > > So we are talking about a simple desktop PC in a tower case with an 21" CRT > Monitor. That answers a lot. As you already have the IF, it is worth while (money wise) putting this together. It seems you have most of the parts. > About multitrack: Being able to run 32 effects (8 Tracks x 4) would be great, > 16 tracks perfect, but my budget is not infinite and I doubt I'll really use > 16 Tracks at once. And most likely not really reverb on all tracks, that is > just the worst case to find out a proper CPU. As your audio IF is PCI (? I am guessing) you need to start by making sure that you can get a MB with PCI slots in it for your chosen CPU. Any of the server class MB I looked at (aside from costing too much) had only PCIe slots. In my case I did not look for just one PCI slot either, but looked for the most I could get, which happened to be 3. I did this because I wanted PCI slots that did not share IRQ with something else and some MB with one PCI slot will put it on IRQ16 with three or four other things. However, even though there are many things list as such on my new mother board, the new hw seems to also be able to rout the IRQs else too. (PCIe seems to have soft IRQs) So I may have been more rigorous than I needed to be. > Maybe I'll try to control some of the effects via Midi - I do own an old > Doepfer Drehbank controller, but not sure, wether I'll have the patience to > program it before winter. Maybe handy for the EQ. But it's also occupied for > the microwave II. > However, EQing with a mouse is a PITA and something I will have to solve > sooner or later. Way worse then setting up reverb or delay. imho. If you already have an external mixer do you need EQ in the box? Mixbus seems to be able to handle EQ per channel as well as some other per channel effects on older hw ok... but cpu use is known to be high. > This box will just be plugged into the inserts of my mixer - therefore the > ideal of 16tracks - which I suppose will be cheaper and better to use than > buying a couple of multieffects. I do not have any more ADDA convertes > anyway. And for my lousy ears, the quality of named plugins is more than > adequate. So 16 channels. probably with jack at 64/2, but maybe lower. Though for just playing around do you actually have more inputs than a few? For example, I have 6 inputs (I could have two more with resampling) I record with. I have done projects up to 14 or so tracks, but have never used more than two input channels. But then I mixdown in SW. I too would like faders/knobs over mouse, but have chosen instead to work on a control surface. > So it's basically -> jack-in->effect1-effect2-effect3-effect4->jack-out with > 16 permanent physical connections bewteen soundcard and mixer. Though not all > of them will be used at once. Controling a number of separate racks of effects with an external midi controler will take some internal glue of some sort. PD, midifiltering or something. > The price limit is a bit difficult as prices are varying between countries. > As I've said, an upper class intel i5 or AMD is about what I am thinking of, > until general consesus is, that there is no way to accomplish this with > standard, upper class (as opposed to high end) PCs. > Then maybe I'll wait a little more and save some money. > But, as you mentioned, I do remeber running softwareeffects, even not really > in parallel, way back on an 2GHz AMD 3200 in decent quality even on WIndows, > so a modern multicore, I would suspect, should be able to run a couple of > them. Just which would be the best bet. > > For hardware devices: Behringer is out of discussion. As is Alesis. I do have No worries, if you already have most of it, why buy more? > So again - are plugins really FPU heavy? Or would it be more important to > have feature X, like AVX or SSE27 or so? Unfortunately I am not really into > this recent hardware stuff and all the latest buzzwords. Ya, I find the same. there are two things I look for: Auto speed changes are bad, but generally can be turned off. Anything that can take processing time away from my RT thread, HT, some styles of on chip video (some older AMD had this), Some HW MB monitoring for heat etc. can effectively (so far as the OS is concerned) make for very long cpu clocks. > And I usually do not trust benchmarks, but that's all I have and the FX > series did quite well in some so called media benchmarks, like rendering, > however, I am not sure whether this can be tranferred to running multiple > audio effects without problems. AS maybe rendering is just two fast threads > instead of 16 medium ones. Dunno. There is a big difference between throughput and lowlatency. HT will help throughput and things like video rendering. RT/lowlatency is about schedualing rather than speed. > The price advantage for the AMD would probably be eaten up by the more > expensive colling - I prefer it rather quiet - and the higher energy bill. The only CPU I know of that comes no-fan OOTB is the atom. Both the Intel Core (i3, i5, i7) and the AMD will need cooling. Both cost more to add no fan cooling to (read aftermarket). > But if it would be the more adequate CPU for this very workload, I would go > that route. i7 are all HT, so that would leave the i5 as only other option. In my experience (limited), I have found that HT is only an issue with jack latency below 64/2. On my old P4, I could do pretty good down to 64/2 with HT on, but could go down to 16/2 with it off. For your use you may find 64/2 (or higher) works just fine and that the extra processing power is worth while. If you have an old MB around that can do 2 channels you could try it out first, see if the delay is too much. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sat Sep 13 20:43:50 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 22:43:50 +0200 Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: <1410641030.934.1.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sat, 2014-09-13 at 09:14 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > I would put all the possible effects in line but have the > ones not used bypassed This isn't possible for all effect combinations that could be needed, but I agree, I would do the same providing the most common usages. > Do you really want each track to have it's own reverb? I agree that aux sends are much better for reverb. Usually we want one virtual room and only need to control how much is send to the reverb. By using aux sends there's - no overlapping of reverb tails or overdosed early reflections. I don't know if this would happen when using a reverb for each channel, if it would cause an audible unwanted side effect, but theoretically it's possible when using tons of reverbs. I never tested it. - For the effect rack in the box, less DSP load, for analog reverbs, less money, since just one reverb is needed, and less background noise, by less reverb outputs. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sat Sep 13 20:56:50 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 22:56:50 +0200 Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: <54149E0F.6030600@nebelschwaden.de> References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> <20140913184739.GA23354@linuxaudio.org> <54149E0F.6030600@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: <1410641810.934.3.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sat, 2014-09-13 at 21:42 +0200, Ede Wolf wrote: > Because it can be useful to put f.e. drums, rather parts of it, in a > very small room, maybe even lofi - just to change or slightly fatten the > sound but not use this very room for anything else? That is a valid usage, but you can forget lofi here. You are describing something like e.g. gated drums. Using reverb as a synth sound effect and not as a reverb is something you very seldom will do. Also what Fons mentioned, to add a special reverb to a solo voice is something you won't do that often. From fons at linuxaudio.org Sat Sep 13 20:59:01 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 20:59:01 +0000 Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: <54149E0F.6030600@nebelschwaden.de> References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> <20140913184739.GA23354@linuxaudio.org> <54149E0F.6030600@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: <20140913205901.GB23354@linuxaudio.org> On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 09:42:07PM +0200, Ede Wolf wrote: > I just believe, that a reverb is most likely the most complex effect > requiring the most CPU power. I may be wrong here, too, that's why I > am asking. Most reverb algorithms (apart from convolution reverbs) do very little and simple calculations but quite a lot of memory access. I'd expect those to be dominated by cache size and speeds rather than raw CPU speed. And if you have 16 independent effect chains, the thing to go for is to ensure they will execute in parallel on an SMP system (more or less the norm today). And that depends on software architecture and nothing else. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sat Sep 13 21:06:13 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 23:06:13 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: another cpu question In-Reply-To: <54149E0F.6030600@nebelschwaden.de> References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> <20140913184739.GA23354@linuxaudio.org> <54149E0F.6030600@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: <1410642373.934.5.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sat, 2014-09-13 at 21:42 +0200, Ede Wolf wrote: > lofi Don't confuse the less good sample quality of old reverbs, with the character of those reverbs. IOW you won't find Linux algorithms that provide what's needed to use the reverb as special effect e.g. for old school drum fatten. You could use IR to get it, but then you can't modify the reberb, as you could do when using algorithms. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 07:57:31 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 09:57:31 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-08-27 at 11:24 +0200, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:25:41 +0200 > Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > I switched from Xfce4 to JWM. JWM does work with all apps excepted of > > QjackCtl. Often I need to kill QjackCtl, because the Connect window > > always is above all other windows and it's impossible to close it. I > > don't want to use a tiling window manager or a WM that is nearly as > > bloated, as DEs such as Xfce4. What WMs do you use? > > I used to experiment with WMs but I use Openbox since quite a while. I tested and I still will continue testing openbox. Until now I experience JWM as much more reliable than openbox. I set a margin for the top of openbox's workspace, as large as the panel on top is, but many windows hide their "heads" under the panel (fbpanel). For JWM this issue only appears with QjackCtl (JWM's own panel, also on top ;). Openbox comes with a few other minor issues, but they are really minor issues, so I will continue testing. Anyway, JWM on my machine seems to be the better choice. Regards, Ralf From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 08:03:52 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 10:03:52 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 09:57 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-08-27 at 11:24 +0200, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > > On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:25:41 +0200 > > Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > > > I switched from Xfce4 to JWM. JWM does work with all apps excepted of > > > QjackCtl. Often I need to kill QjackCtl, because the Connect window > > > always is above all other windows and it's impossible to close it. I > > > don't want to use a tiling window manager or a WM that is nearly as > > > bloated, as DEs such as Xfce4. What WMs do you use? > > > > I used to experiment with WMs but I use Openbox since quite a while. > > I tested and I still will continue testing openbox. > Until now I experience JWM as much more reliable than openbox. > I set a margin for the top of openbox's workspace, as large as the panel > on top is, but many windows hide their "heads" under the panel > (fbpanel). For JWM this issue only appears with QjackCtl (JWM's own > panel, also on top ;). > > Openbox comes with a few other minor issues, but they are really minor > issues, so I will continue testing. Anyway, JWM on my machine seems to > be the better choice. > > Regards, > Ralf PS: I forgot to mention that on JWM the QjackCtl's Windows is above all other windows and hide it's head under the panel. I didn't use QjackCtl on openbox, but experienced issues with other apps. The windows were not above all other windows, but they hide their heads under the panel or they opened with most of the window left outside the workspace and a few other problems happened, that don't happen when using JWM. From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Sun Sep 14 08:46:22 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 09:46:22 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 10:03:52 +0200 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 09:57 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > On Wed, 2014-08-27 at 11:24 +0200, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > > > On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 07:25:41 +0200 > > > Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > > > > > I switched from Xfce4 to JWM. JWM does work with all apps excepted of > > > > QjackCtl. Often I need to kill QjackCtl, because the Connect window > > > > always is above all other windows and it's impossible to close it. I > > > > don't want to use a tiling window manager or a WM that is nearly as > > > > bloated, as DEs such as Xfce4. What WMs do you use? > > > > > > I used to experiment with WMs but I use Openbox since quite a while. > > > > I tested and I still will continue testing openbox. > > Until now I experience JWM as much more reliable than openbox. > > I set a margin for the top of openbox's workspace, as large as the panel > > on top is, but many windows hide their "heads" under the panel > > (fbpanel). For JWM this issue only appears with QjackCtl (JWM's own > > panel, also on top ;). > > > > Openbox comes with a few other minor issues, but they are really minor > > issues, so I will continue testing. Anyway, JWM on my machine seems to > > be the better choice. > > > > Regards, > > Ralf > > PS: I forgot to mention that on JWM the QjackCtl's Windows is above all > other windows and hide it's head under the panel. > > I didn't use QjackCtl on openbox, but experienced issues with other > apps. The windows were not above all other windows, but they hide their > heads under the panel or they opened with most of the window left > outside the workspace and a few other problems happened, that don't > happen when using JWM. I'd be inclined to question other aspects of your setup. I've never had any such issues with openbox, and have been using it for many years. Are you aware that there is a lot of customisation you can do if you delve into the rc and menu files? -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From e at 80x24.org Sun Sep 14 09:13:25 2014 From: e at 80x24.org (Eric Wong) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 09:13:25 +0000 Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: <20140914091325.GA2930@dcvr.yhbt.net> Ede Wolf wrote: > As HT generally has a bad reputation for audio, currently, the AMD > FX-8350 is on top of my list, as the floating point preformance is > said to be rather good and lots of cores should be ideal for running > lots of effects in parallel - though unfortunately not every core > does have its on FPU. As it is not going to run 24/7, the insane > energy consumption is somewhat acceptable. I have a similar AMD FX-8320 and it's a decent machine for the price for doing software development and testing (mostly targeting servers). The big selling point for AMD CPUs is ECC memory support[1] at a much lower price than Intel Xeons. sensors(1) reports power usage via fam15h_power kernel module and mine idles around 35W. It'll max out to 125W when I run a parallel build or SoX effects (mostly integer-based). I went with the Zalman FX-70 heatsink and one of the high static pressure (many blades) Noctua fans on the heatsink. There's only one other 120mm case fan (also Noctua, but low static pressure with few blades). Both fans run at the lowest possible speed, so temperatures hover on the high side around 60C when I max it out. My older AMD Phenom II 945 and my Intel Xeon E3-1230 machines run the bigger Zalman FX-100 fanless (both 95W, AFAIK). Both can run parallel build/test suites all day with only a single, slow, 120mm case fan (which even cools multiple HDDs/SSDs). Fanless PSUs all around :) [1] that said, I'm curious why ECC hasn't taken off in the audio world... From simonzwise at gmail.com Sun Sep 14 09:40:08 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 19:40:08 +1000 Subject: [LAU] Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> Message-ID: <54156278.4010705@gmail.com> On 14/09/14 18:46, Will Godfrey wrote: > On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 10:03:52 +0200 > Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> I didn't use QjackCtl on openbox, but experienced issues with other >> apps. The windows were not above all other windows, but they hide their >> heads under the panel or they opened with most of the window left >> outside the workspace and a few other problems happened, that don't >> happen when using JWM. > > I'd be inclined to question other aspects of your setup. I've never had any > such issues with openbox, and have been using it for many years. > > Are you aware that there is a lot of customisation you can do if you delve into > the rc and menu files? > lxde with openbox is the choice the Raspberry Pi lot made for a very low powered device to be used by Linux noobs ... it behaves itself quite well and is very lightweight. I haven't seen these issues, but only sometimes run X (I usually use ssh, network sockets, gpio or triggerhappydeamon to control it ... and use ssh -X for apps which need a window to edit them, Pd patches for example). Attached is the ~/.config/openbox/lxde-rc.xml with plenty of comments etc for reference. Simon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: lxde-rc Type: text/xml Size: 23286 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jhernberg at alchemy.lu Sun Sep 14 10:55:06 2014 From: jhernberg at alchemy.lu (Joakim Hernberg) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 12:55:06 +0200 Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: <54148273.8080703@nebelschwaden.de> References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> <54148273.8080703@nebelschwaden.de> Message-ID: <20140914125506.78f49b6a@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 19:44:19 +0200 Ede Wolf wrote: > The price advantage for the AMD would probably be eaten up by the > more expensive colling - I prefer it rather quiet - and the higher > energy bill. But if it would be the more adequate CPU for this very > workload, I would go that route. i7 are all HT, so that would leave > the i5 as only other option. IME, HT dosen't have to be a showstopper. It's conceptually "wrong" to use it if you are relying on linux realtime processing, but in real life it's normally not a problem with audio, unless you push the system real hard doing other things. I also theorize that on an i7 it can lead to cache depletion and cause long xruns when the CPU is heavily loaded. On the other hand you can normally just disable HT in the BIOS, so with the right motherboard it shouldn't be a criteria to disqualify a CPU. -- Joakim From gheskett at wdtv.com Sun Sep 14 11:17:01 2014 From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 07:17:01 -0400 Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: <20140914125506.78f49b6a@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> <54148273.8080703@nebelschwaden.de> <20140914125506.78f49b6a@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> Message-ID: <201409140717.01934.gheskett@wdtv.com> On Sunday 14 September 2014 06:55:06 Joakim Hernberg did opine And Gene did reply: > On Sat, 13 Sep 2014 19:44:19 +0200 > > Ede Wolf wrote: > > The price advantage for the AMD would probably be eaten up by the > > more expensive colling - I prefer it rather quiet - and the higher > > energy bill. But if it would be the more adequate CPU for this very > > workload, I would go that route. i7 are all HT, so that would leave > > the i5 as only other option. > > IME, HT dosen't have to be a showstopper. It's conceptually "wrong" to > use it if you are relying on linux realtime processing, but in real > life it's normally not a problem with audio, unless you push the > system real hard doing other things. I also theorize that on an i7 it > can lead to cache depletion and cause long xruns when the CPU is > heavily loaded. > > On the other hand you can normally just disable HT in the BIOS, so with > the right motherboard it shouldn't be a criteria to disqualify a CPU. At risk of depleting the supply of atom powered boards, the dual core atom, fanless, with HP disabled and isolcpus=1 on the kernel command line in grub, is easily the best latency board for use with LinuxCNC, where the background i/o task runs on the isolated core, and can update the parport every 25 usecs, with a timing jitter under 3 microseconds. But its relatively poorly equipt in dram. Only 2 slots, but runs LCNC very nicely with a 2Gb slab of ddr3 in it, and has enough left over to run a session of firefox and a session of the irc agent konversation while its cutting metal by controlling dangerously powerful machinery. The stuff running on core 0 may lag, but LCNC keeps chugging along on the isolated core 1. You folks really should take advantage of the isolcpus command for your latency critical work. The gui's may not keep up, but the sound should. Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 12:45:59 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 14:45:59 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <54156278.4010705@gmail.com> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> <54156278.4010705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1410698759.22679.5.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 19:40 +1000, Simon Wise wrote: > On 14/09/14 18:46, Will Godfrey wrote: > > Are you aware that there is a lot of customisation you can do if you delve into > > the rc and menu files? Yes, my standard tools to set up WMs are Pluma and Nano. > Attached is the ~/.config/openbox/lxde-rc.xml with plenty of comments etc for > reference. Thank you, but I don't want to use a DE. I wonder if my wish to use a panel on top of the workspace, without hiding it, is too freakish for WMs ;). Do you also use a panel on top of the workspace that is always visible? On openbox I noticed that GIMP's tool windows, for layers etc. have tendencies to hide the top of the windows under the panel and sometimes they also open with most of it out of the workspace. The GUI of Rakarrak also has got a tendency to open with the window's head under the panel. Other applications, e.g. Firefox, Qupzilla and Evolution don't cause this issue, with or without a panel they use the workspace and open below the margin I set up for top of the workspace. Regards, Ralf From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 13:04:50 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:04:50 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <1410698759.22679.5.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> <54156278.4010705@gmail.com> <1410698759.22679.5.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1410699890.22679.7.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 14:45 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On openbox I noticed that GIMP's tool windows, for layers etc. have > tendencies to hide the top of the windows under the panel and sometimes > they also open with most of it out of the workspace. GIMP's main window always opens correctly, but not only the dockable dialog windows, but also the text tool's window could open outside of the workspace. From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Sun Sep 14 13:21:07 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 09:21:07 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Rename jackd ports by command line? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Jonathan E. Brickman wrote: > > I'd like to rename jackd ports by command line -- is there a way? >>> >>> >>> whether there is a way or not, the goal is misguided. what is your >>> actual goal? >>> >> > It seems that you are right again -- somehow my "wires" work across > hardware changes, even though the names of the ports are very different, I > have been trying between Behringer FCA202 firewire and Prosonus USB. Are > there "hidden" jackd port names or other default designations (something > like "default output port #0 and #1") which make this work so nicely? > we deliberately designed JACK to use generic names like "system:playback_1" precisely to avoid the first-level dependence on device names and architecture. the new metadata API, which only exists in jack1 and is not really used by any applications yet, is there to solve second-level problems. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 13:22:53 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:22:53 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> Message-ID: <1410700973.22679.13.camel@rocketmail.com> Speaking of the devil ... My apologies, the text window issue seems to be GIMP related. OTOH now, for the very first time, GIMPs main window hides it's head under the panel by just opening GIMP. I didn't move the window manually. This seems to be openbox related. http://picpaste.com/window_issue.png resp. http://picpaste.com/pics/window_issue.1410700765.png :( From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Sun Sep 14 13:25:01 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 09:25:01 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Russell Hanaghan < hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Hmm, $60us by the looks? Not too much money by any means if it works > reliably. > > Just curious if any devs are into writing something simple? I can provide > testing assistance only. Just sounds like a cool and relative thing to have > in the open source world. > when it comes to translating from one DAW format to another, there is no such thing as "simple". the people behind AATranslator are a veritable font of knowledge about this stuff, and it cannot be stressed enough how much work they have done and how much they have had to discover. no other attempt at such a tool has ever succeeded - there was one other tool which Solid State purchased but its existence now seems hard to spot. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d_baron at 012.net.il Sun Sep 14 13:56:33 2014 From: d_baron at 012.net.il (David Baron) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 16:56:33 +0300 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> Message-ID: <2386787.eQdpjpIqZi@dovidhalevi> On Sunday 14 September 2014 09:25:01 Paul Davis wrote: > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Russell Hanaghan < > > hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com> wrote: > > Hmm, $60us by the looks? Not too much money by any means if it works > > reliably. > > > > Just curious if any devs are into writing something simple? I can provide > > testing assistance only. Just sounds like a cool and relative thing to > > have > > in the open source world. > > when it comes to translating from one DAW format to another, there is no > such thing as "simple". > > the people behind AATranslator are a veritable font of knowledge about this > stuff, and it cannot be stressed enough how much work they have done and > how much they have had to discover. > > no other attempt at such a tool has ever succeeded - there was one other > tool which Solid State purchased but its existence now seems hard to spot. Yep. I had tried to start an openDAW discussion/project a few years back, with a common XML-based intermediary referencing pcm files/segments. The existence of a proprietary-binary "AAF" library was called to my attention with some intent of releasing a XML/text based version. A few DAW programs support AAF. Have not heard much since. From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Sun Sep 14 13:59:10 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 09:59:10 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <2386787.eQdpjpIqZi@dovidhalevi> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> <2386787.eQdpjpIqZi@dovidhalevi> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:56 AM, David Baron wrote: > On Sunday 14 September 2014 09:25:01 Paul Davis wrote: > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Russell Hanaghan < > > > > hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Hmm, $60us by the looks? Not too much money by any means if it works > > > reliably. > > > > > > Just curious if any devs are into writing something simple? I can > provide > > > testing assistance only. Just sounds like a cool and relative thing to > > > have > > > in the open source world. > > > > when it comes to translating from one DAW format to another, there is no > > such thing as "simple". > > > > the people behind AATranslator are a veritable font of knowledge about > this > > stuff, and it cannot be stressed enough how much work they have done and > > how much they have had to discover. > > > > no other attempt at such a tool has ever succeeded - there was one other > > tool which Solid State purchased but its existence now seems hard to > spot. > > Yep. I had tried to start an openDAW discussion/project a few years back, > with > a common XML-based intermediary referencing pcm files/segments. The > existence > of a proprietary-binary "AAF" library was called to my attention with some > intent of releasing a XML/text based version. A few DAW programs support > AAF. > Have not heard much since. > __________________________ > AAF is actually a relatively open specification BUT * it has every hallmark of design-by-committee * it is vastly more centered on broadcast and video than on typical DAW scenarios * the spec includes an explicit dependence on Microsoft "structured storage format", which is essentially a filesystem-in-a-file, and this part is somewhat opaque although there are attempts at an open source implementation I wouldn't put a minute of my time into AAF support. It is a dinosaur, in every sense of that word. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeremy at autostatic.com Sun Sep 14 14:02:20 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 16:02:20 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <1410698759.22679.5.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> <54156278.4010705@gmail.com> <1410698759.22679.5.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <54159FEC.50807@autostatic.com> On 09/14/2014 02:45 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> Attached is the ~/.config/openbox/lxde-rc.xml with plenty of comments etc for >> > reference. > Thank you, but I don't want to use a DE. The attached lxde-rc.xml is a config for the openbox window manager, don't get distracted by it's name ;) Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jeremy at autostatic.com Sun Sep 14 14:05:04 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 16:05:04 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <1410700973.22679.13.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> <1410700973.22679.13.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <5415A090.5060801@autostatic.com> On 09/14/2014 03:22 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > OTOH now, for the very first time, GIMPs main window hides it's head > under the panel by just opening GIMP. I didn't move the window manually. > This seems to be openbox related. I never have these issues. Did you try with a different, clean user account? Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From simonzwise at gmail.com Sun Sep 14 14:07:51 2014 From: simonzwise at gmail.com (Simon Wise) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 00:07:51 +1000 Subject: [LAU] Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <54156278.4010705@gmail.com> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> <54156278.4010705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5415A137.8000501@gmail.com> On 14/09/14 19:40, Simon Wise wrote: > > lxde with openbox is the choice the Raspberry Pi lot made for a very low powered > device to be used by Linux noobs ... it behaves itself quite well and is very > lightweight. I haven't seen these issues, I'd forgotten one issue like that ... when pd creates a new, empty, patch its window is positioned incorrectly in the top left with the decorations and menu off-screen (regardless of the positioning settings). After moving with alt-drag and saving then it re-opens correctly each time, so it has never been an issue. I think it is an attempt by pd to keep the canvas areas aligned consistently regardless of platform, but it doesn't always work so well. So ... Openbox allows applications and users to place their windows badly if they insist, you had better stick with something a bit heavier if you need more discipline applied. It does use its margins as a border for maximise and for 'edge resistance'. Experimenting with xfce and openbox ... pd saves the position of the top left of its inner windows (excluding the decorations and menu) and their size in its patch files .. then a window on openbox is opened exactly there if this inner window would land within the display, otherwise a clumsy guess at placement and size is made. Xfce4 over-rides this if part of the window is outside the set margins, and moves and resizes to fit. Xfce4 always pushes the whole window decoration out of the panel area and won't allow a window to be dragged too far outside the margins. I think it is a Pd issue, it is trying to place windows manually rather than giving the WM appropriate hints. Also the WM_CLASS window property doesn't seem to be properly set, so it isn't dealing with the whole WM thing correctly at all, probably trying to avoid different WM and OS decisions leading to different layouts. There will be others which ask for awkward positions in a way that Openbox does not fix up. Simon From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 14:21:31 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 16:21:31 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <5415A090.5060801@autostatic.com> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> <1410700973.22679.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <5415A090.5060801@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <1410704491.22679.17.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 16:05 +0200, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > On 09/14/2014 03:22 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > OTOH now, for the very first time, GIMPs main window hides it's head > > under the panel by just opening GIMP. I didn't move the window manually. > > This seems to be openbox related. > > I never have these issues. Did you try with a different, clean user account? No, I didn't. But what account settings could cause this issue? Assumed it's not a common issue, could it be related to the used graphics or the graphics driver [1]? Btw. sometimes I run some applications for my user session, by another user, to e.g. get password protected histories of browsers [2] (yes, there are smarter ways to use xhost, but it shouldn't be related to the issue ;). I guess this shouldn't have impact to the behavior of applications, that are launched by the user of the user's session. [1] [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ cat /etc/X11/xorg.conf Section "Module" Load "extmod" Load "dri" Load "dbe" Load "dri2" Load "glx" Load "record" Load "GLcore" #Load "v4l" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "Plug 'n' Play" ModelName "Plug 'n' Play" DisplaySize 305 230 HorizSync 29-98 VertRefresh 50-120 modeline "1152x864" 128.42 1152 1232 1360 1568 864 865 868 910 Gamma 1.0 EndSection Section "Device" ### Available Driver options are:- ### Values: : integer, : float, : "True"/"False", ### : "String", : " Hz/kHz/MHz" ### [arg]: arg optional #Option "SWcursor" # [] #Option "HWcursor" # [] #Option "NoAccel" # [] #Option "ShadowFB" # [] #Option "VideoKey" # #Option "MergedFB" "off" #old debian/ubuntu Identifier "Card0" Driver "radeon" #Driver "nvidia" #Driver "nv" #Driver "nouveau" #Driver "vesa" #VendorName "nVidia Corporation" #BoardName "G72 [GeForce 7300 SE/7200 GS]" #BusID "PCI:1:0:0" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Card0" Monitor "Monitor0" Defaultdepth 24 SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "1152x864" #Virtual 3840 1200 EndSubSection # SubSection "Display" # Viewport 0 0 # Depth 1 # EndSubSection # SubSection "Display" # Viewport 0 0 # Depth 4 # EndSubSection # SubSection "Display" # Viewport 0 0 # Depth 8 # EndSubSection # SubSection "Display" # Viewport 0 0 # Depth 15 # EndSubSection # SubSection "Display" # Viewport 0 0 # Depth 16 # EndSubSection # SubSection "Display" # Viewport 0 0 # Depth 24 # EndSubSection EndSection Section "ServerFlags" Option "BlankTime" "0" Option "StandbyTime" "0" Option "SuspendTime" "0" Option "OffTime" "0" EndSection [2] [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ cat /usr/local/bin/chuser #!/bin/sh # /usr/local/bin/chuser -> /.chuser/bin/chuser xhost + gksudo -u chuser "$*" xhost - exit From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 14:28:58 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 16:28:58 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <5415A137.8000501@gmail.com> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> <54156278.4010705@gmail.com> <5415A137.8000501@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1410704938.22679.19.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-15 at 00:07 +1000, Simon Wise wrote: > There will be others which ask for awkward positions in a way that > Openbox does not fix up. I guess this is the culprit I experience with JWM and openbox. Some apps always open properly, just a few apps, for audio at least Rakarrak and "child" windows of QjackCtl" sometimes (not always) open in a bad way. From len at ovenwerks.net Sun Sep 14 15:00:45 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <1410704938.22679.19.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> <54156278.4010705@gmail.com> <5415A137.8000501@gmail.com> <1410704938.22679.19.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Sep 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Mon, 2014-09-15 at 00:07 +1000, Simon Wise wrote: >> There will be others which ask for awkward positions in a way that >> Openbox does not fix up. > > I guess this is the culprit I experience with JWM and openbox. Some apps > always open properly, just a few apps, for audio at least Rakarrak and > "child" windows of QjackCtl" sometimes (not always) open in a bad way. Qjackctl saves it's window positions when it exits. It then trys to open them in the same position the next time it is opened. If you always use the same WM, DE, and application positions it works well. If you switch WMs maybe not so well. If you are trying different WMs, what makes sense in one may not make sense in another. This is not the WM fault or setting. It is not application's fault, though it may be the applications settings. It is just the way of things using more than one WM. Right now I am using a very small screen and the best window position changes depending on what I am doing... so I am noticing this as well. The window does not go in open area, but where it was last time. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From len at ovenwerks.net Sun Sep 14 15:20:26 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:20:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: <20140914091325.GA2930@dcvr.yhbt.net> References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> <20140914091325.GA2930@dcvr.yhbt.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Sep 2014, Eric Wong wrote: > [1] that said, I'm curious why ECC hasn't taken off in the audio world... Most people in the audio world do not use specialized computers. Those who use the mac do so because they feel someone made multimedia work on that platform. Those who use something else are not willing to pay apple's premium. So not too many people are willing to spend the money to grab a server class MB either. When the gamers start using it, the price will start to go down. The reality though, is that Audio, takes a lot less horse power than we think. I have been surprised at how well my 3.4Ghz i5 still works when set to a solid 800Mhz, even my old 1.6ghz atom does very good audio work with it's one core at 800Mhz (800mhz seems to be the lowest speed on these things). A quick note on heat/power and speed. It seems that less heat is generated at a higher stable speed than a slightly lower changing speed. Running one core at a slower speed than the rest gives more heat than all of them at the higher speed together. Running with the cpu governor in "performance" mode may use a bit more power at idle than "ondemand", but it uses less power (makes less heat) at high cpu usage. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 15:32:02 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 17:32:02 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> <54156278.4010705@gmail.com> <5415A137.8000501@gmail.com> <1410704938.22679.19.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1410708722.22679.21.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 08:00 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > On Sun, 14 Sep 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > On Mon, 2014-09-15 at 00:07 +1000, Simon Wise wrote: > >> There will be others which ask for awkward positions in a way that > >> Openbox does not fix up. > > > > I guess this is the culprit I experience with JWM and openbox. Some apps > > always open properly, just a few apps, for audio at least Rakarrak and > > "child" windows of QjackCtl" sometimes (not always) open in a bad way. > > Qjackctl saves it's window positions when it exits. It then trys to open > them in the same position the next time it is opened. If you always use > the same WM, DE, and application positions it works well. If you switch > WMs maybe not so well. If you are trying different WMs, what makes sense > in one may not make sense in another. This is not the WM fault or setting. > It is not application's fault, though it may be the applications settings. > It is just the way of things using more than one WM. Right now I am using > a very small screen and the best window position changes depending on what > I am doing... so I am noticing this as well. The window does not go in > open area, but where it was last time. Yesno ;). Even when using the same monitor and the same WM and I didn't move the windows within one session, they sometimes open as wanted and sometimes e.g. under the panel. Indeed, I sometimes switch between WMs/DEs and sometimes I use another monitor with a different screen resolution, but the GIMP screenshot was done after using GIMP within the same openbox session, using the same monitor and resolution, without moving the GIMP window. I just closed it and opened GIMP sometime later again and the position changed. The JWM issue with QjackCtl windows is a little bit different, sometimes a QjackCtl child window opens and covers all other windows on all 4 work spaces. I very seldom experienced such an issue when using Xfce4 or GNOME2, but for JWM and openbox such issues are not that seldom, it happens several times a day. From len at ovenwerks.net Sun Sep 14 15:53:06 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 08:53:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: <201409140717.01934.gheskett@wdtv.com> References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> <54148273.8080703@nebelschwaden.de> <20140914125506.78f49b6a@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> <201409140717.01934.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Sep 2014, Gene Heskett wrote: > The stuff running on core 0 may lag, but LCNC keeps chugging along on the > isolated core 1. > > You folks really should take advantage of the isolcpus command for your > latency critical work. The gui's may not keep up, but the sound should. I agree that would make a lot of sense. I think there are some other tools that could do some of these things too. However, many people even in linux audio rely on OOTB setups. It is hard for a distro to imagine what setup the user might have to make the very best use out of it. Also, those who put distros together often do not have the knowledge to set something automated up either. So this will have to start will people who are willing to take the time to customize a system to use these ideas. The one problem with the older Atoms is the GPU. It does work ok, but it is always (in Linux) configured for at least two screens (a direct LCD seems to be the exception) one of which normally gets set up to not show (but still uses memory). The latest ones have a different gpu, but I do not know if it is open either. I put one in my wife's computer, but it is not keeping up with her main (mostly graphics) use. So i will be using it as a headless audio board after I get her another one (with an open GPU like my son has). -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com Sun Sep 14 16:47:56 2014 From: hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com (Russell Hanaghan) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 09:47:56 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> Message-ID: ~ Russell > On Sep 14, 2014, at 6:25 AM, Paul Davis wrote: > > > >> On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Russell Hanaghan wrote: >> >> >> >> Hmm, $60us by the looks? Not too much money by any means if it works reliably. >> >> Just curious if any devs are into writing something simple? I can provide testing assistance only. Just sounds like a cool and relative thing to have in the open source world. > > when it comes to translating from one DAW format to another, there is no such thing as "simple". > > the people behind AATranslator are a veritable font of knowledge about this stuff, and it cannot be stressed enough how much work they have done and how much they have had to discover. > > no other attempt at such a tool has ever succeeded - there was one other tool which Solid State purchased but its existence now seems hard to spot. Thanks to all for input. So the short version is "No" & and the most usable option regarding session conversion is AAtranslator. That, or suck it up and import .wav files to new session manually. Thanks, R -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gheskett at wdtv.com Sun Sep 14 16:52:09 2014 From: gheskett at wdtv.com (Gene Heskett) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 12:52:09 -0400 Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> <201409140717.01934.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: <201409141252.09696.gheskett@wdtv.com> On Sunday 14 September 2014 11:53:06 Len Ovens did opine And Gene did reply: > On Sun, 14 Sep 2014, Gene Heskett wrote: > > The stuff running on core 0 may lag, but LCNC keeps chugging along on > > the isolated core 1. > > > > You folks really should take advantage of the isolcpus command for > > your latency critical work. The gui's may not keep up, but the > > sound should. > > I agree that would make a lot of sense. I think there are some other > tools that could do some of these things too. However, many people > even in linux audio rely on OOTB setups. It is hard for a distro to > imagine what setup the user might have to make the very best use out > of it. Also, those who put distros together often do not have the > knowledge to set something automated up either. So this will have to > start will people who are willing to take the time to customize a > system to use these ideas. Folks who aren't willing to ask questions and do what they are told, should probably stick with one size fits all poorly windows. The addition of the isolcpus argument is generally a one time thing if done correctly. This distro, downloadable from wiki.linuxcnc.org, was assembled by the LCNC people based on ubu 10.04.4 LTS, uses grub 2, but has its own grub config for LCNC in /etc/grub.d. If you rerun the grub configurator, that is preserved only for the special RTAI patched kernel. I am running a much later 3.16.0 ATM because that RTAI patched kernel is not PAE, meaning I'm a gigabyte into swap in 3 days uptime, no such problem with 3.16.0, so I am restricted to running only the simulator versions. Nice to troubleshoot gcode with, but incapable of carving metal. > The one problem with the older Atoms is the GPU. It does work ok, but > it is always (in Linux) configured for at least two screens (a direct > LCD seems to be the exception) one of which normally gets set up to > not show (but still uses memory). I wasn't aware of that, and have the milling machine configured for 8 "workspaces" and the lathe set for 4. Generally that is sufficient. > The latest ones have a different > gpu, but I do not know if it is open either. The D525MW's I have are later production in ARK shoeboxes, using the i915 driver. It seems to be adequate. Capable of driving the older LCD monitors like I use for space considerations. > I put one in my wife's > computer, but it is not keeping up with her main (mostly graphics) > use. So i will be using it as a headless audio board after I get her > another one (with an open GPU like my son has). > > -- > Len Ovens > www.ovenwerks.net Cheers, Gene Heskett -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author) Genes Web page US V Castleman, SCOTUS, Mar 2014 is grounds for Impeaching SCOTUS From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 17:56:04 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 19:56:04 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1410717364.26893.15.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 09:47 -0700, Russell Hanaghan wrote: > That, or suck it up and import .wav files to new session manually. .wav and .mid, not only .wav :p. You asked for good reasons, for something within Linux, but OTOH, the world is big, others might ask for something exotic, e.g. to transform from Fairlight to Qtractor and vice versa. I only touched one Fairlight workstation in my live and it was broken :D, already before I touched it ;). Could you share Ardour2 and Ardour3 sessions, without issues? IMO before thinking about converting between different programs, we should be happy, if we can use sessions, done with different versions of the same software. Linux is for hobby usage, not for professional usage. That's it! -- The SMPS is the 10 plagues of Egypt concentrate into one plague. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 18:12:25 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 20:12:25 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1410718345.26893.17.camel@rocketmail.com> There only is one thing we can share all over the world, recorded in different decades: analog tapes The only important requirement is that the analog tapes were archived correctly, e.g. winded back to avoid audible magnetic delays. -- The SMPS is the 10 plagues of Egypt concentrate into one plague. From d_baron at 012.net.il Sun Sep 14 18:25:04 2014 From: d_baron at 012.net.il (David Baron) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:25:04 +0300 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <1833546.ig5IZvHhBP@dovidhalevi> Message-ID: <7025558.go0bfZSOFh@dovidhalevi> On Sunday 14 September 2014 10:21:16 you wrote: > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 10:14 AM, David Baron wrote: > > On Sunday 14 September 2014 09:59:10 you wrote: > > > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:56 AM, David Baron wrote: > > > > On Sunday 14 September 2014 09:25:01 Paul Davis wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Sep 12, 2014 at 4:15 PM, Russell Hanaghan < > > > > > > > > > > hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hmm, $60us by the looks? Not too much money by any means if it > > > > works > > > > > > > > reliably. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just curious if any devs are into writing something simple? I can > > > > > > > > provide > > > > > > > > > > testing assistance only. Just sounds like a cool and relative > > > > thing to > > > > > > > > have > > > > > > in the open source world. > > > > > > > > > > when it comes to translating from one DAW format to another, there > > > > is no > > > > > > > such thing as "simple". > > > > > > > > > > the people behind AATranslator are a veritable font of knowledge > > > > about > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > stuff, and it cannot be stressed enough how much work they have done > > > > and > > > > > > > how much they have had to discover. > > > > > > > > > > no other attempt at such a tool has ever succeeded - there was one > > > > other > > > > > > > tool which Solid State purchased but its existence now seems hard to > > > > > > > > spot. > > > > > > > > Yep. I had tried to start an openDAW discussion/project a few years > > > > back, > > > > > > with > > > > a common XML-based intermediary referencing pcm files/segments. The > > > > existence > > > > of a proprietary-binary "AAF" library was called to my attention with > > > > some > > > > > > intent of releasing a XML/text based version. A few DAW programs > > > > support > > > > > > AAF. > > > > Have not heard much since. > > > > __________________________ > > > > > > AAF is actually a relatively open specification BUT > > > > > > * it has every hallmark of design-by-committee > > > * it is vastly more centered on broadcast and video than on typical > > > > DAW > > > > > scenarios > > > > > > * the spec includes an explicit dependence on Microsoft "structured > > > > > > storage format", > > > > > > which is essentially a filesystem-in-a-file, and this part is > > > > > > somewhat opaque > > > > > > although there are attempts at an open source implementation > > > > > > I wouldn't put a minute of my time into AAF support. It is a dinosaur, > > > in > > > every sense of that word. > > > > So maybe it is time to invent a new one. What I had in mind was something > > like > > what Cakewalk has, but open, XML-based, hand-editable. PCM segments would > > be > > the only thing that HAD to be binary. MIDI could be done binary as well or > > XML > > (there are already schemas for such). > > http://xkcd.com/927/ Very cute. However, there are no real standards. Each program, opensource or not, has its own system and ne'er the 'twain do meet. So one restricts to one program, no other choice. Microsoft is so big so makes its own standards, its own rules, changes them at will (example rtf), but they are not in the DAW business. Just many programs run on their platform so may use some of their file-structures. What if the programs we use here, on this list, were inter-operable? Ardour/Harrison, Qtractor, Muse, Rosegarden, etc. We have more choices than does Microsoft. What if Tracktion (proprietary, now supporting Linux!) were brought on board? I do not think it is so far-fetched if there be a will to do so. One opensource library to service this, done once. (I no longer have my old posts, proposals for this. Discussion was a while back.) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 18:31:33 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 20:31:33 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <7025558.go0bfZSOFh@dovidhalevi> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <1833546.ig5IZvHhBP@dovidhalevi> <7025558.go0bfZSOFh@dovidhalevi> Message-ID: <1410719493.26893.19.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 21:25 +0300, David Baron wrote: > Very cute. > > However, there are no real standards. Each program, opensource or not, has its > own system and ne'er the 'twain do meet. So one restricts to one program, no > other choice. > > Microsoft is so big so makes its own standards, its own rules, changes them at > will (example rtf), but they are not in the DAW business. Just many programs > run on their platform so may use some of their file-structures. > > What if the programs we use here, on this list, were inter-operable? > Ardour/Harrison, Qtractor, Muse, Rosegarden, etc. We have more choices than > does Microsoft. What if Tracktion (proprietary, now supporting Linux!) were > brought on board? I do not think it is so far-fetched if there be a will to do > so. One opensource library to service this, done once. > > (I no longer have my old posts, proposals for this. Discussion was a while > back.) Analog tape simply transported one information, comparable to a single wav file, but DAWs provide much more information. It's impossible to transform it from one to another DAW. Sometimes it's already impossible to be backward compatible for different releases of DAWs. The problem grows up when thinking about abilities of different workstations, as simple as EQ plugins. From bob at mellowood.ca Sun Sep 14 18:39:45 2014 From: bob at mellowood.ca (Bob van der Poel) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:39:45 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <1410718345.26893.17.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> <1410718345.26893.17.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > There only is one thing we can share all over the world, recorded in > different decades: analog tapes > ?Well, not quite. Sheet music is quite playable after many centuries. And no special machines are needed :)? -- **** Listen to my FREE CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob at mellowood.ca WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 18:43:29 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 20:43:29 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <1410719493.26893.19.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <1833546.ig5IZvHhBP@dovidhalevi> <7025558.go0bfZSOFh@dovidhalevi> <1410719493.26893.19.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1410720209.26893.21.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 20:31 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 21:25 +0300, David Baron wrote: > > Very cute. > > > > However, there are no real standards. Each program, opensource or not, has its > > own system and ne'er the 'twain do meet. So one restricts to one program, no > > other choice. > > > > Microsoft is so big so makes its own standards, its own rules, changes them at > > will (example rtf), but they are not in the DAW business. Just many programs > > run on their platform so may use some of their file-structures. > > > > What if the programs we use here, on this list, were inter-operable? > > Ardour/Harrison, Qtractor, Muse, Rosegarden, etc. We have more choices than > > does Microsoft. What if Tracktion (proprietary, now supporting Linux!) were > > brought on board? I do not think it is so far-fetched if there be a will to do > > so. One opensource library to service this, done once. > > > > (I no longer have my old posts, proposals for this. Discussion was a while > > back.) > > Analog tape simply transported one information, comparable to a single > wav file, but DAWs provide much more information. It's impossible to > transform it from one to another DAW. Sometimes it's already impossible > to be backward compatible for different releases of DAWs. The problem > grows up when thinking about abilities of different workstations, as > simple as EQ plugins. Forgive me ;), a last note: It might be possible to transform editing data, regarding to a .wav that is played from position a to b, from one workstation to another, but nowadays there's so much insane audio engineering, that the edited and glued together wav files are useless without the automation information of a an unique compressor's ratio setting, changing from one 1/8 bar to the other or something similar to that. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 18:56:07 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 20:56:07 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> <1410718345.26893.17.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1410720967.26893.23.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 11:39 -0700, Bob van der Poel wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Ralf Mardorf > wrote: > There only is one thing we can share all over the world, > recorded in > different decades: analog tapes > > > > ?Well, not quite. Sheet music is quite playable after many centuries. > And no special machines are needed :)? Ok, you're right. OTOH sheet music has two disadvantages: 1. It's not perfect, the notation is unable to archive the ms I used to push my guitar's whammy bar and the notation doesn't archive the detuning after doing this with my pre-Floyd-Rose-and-co-whammy-bar. 2. It does neither take care about sensitive phrasing, nor about the sound of the used instruments. Sheet music isn't a recording! You need musicians, you can't share just a magnetic tape or some computer files. From hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com Sun Sep 14 18:59:12 2014 From: hanaghan.osaudio at gmail.com (Russell Hanaghan) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:59:12 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <1410717364.26893.15.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> <1410717364.26893.15.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <10AABF02-CA7D-4BC4-B18B-231096B5210C@gmail.com> ~ Russell > On Sep 14, 2014, at 10:56 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > >> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 09:47 -0700, Russell Hanaghan wrote: >> That, or suck it up and import .wav files to new session manually. > > .wav and .mid, not only .wav :p. > > You asked for good reasons, for something within Linux, but OTOH, the > world is big, others might ask for something exotic, e.g. to transform > from Fairlight to Qtractor and vice versa. I only touched one Fairlight > workstation in my live and it was broken :D, already before I touched > it ;). > > Could you share Ardour2 and Ardour3 sessions, without issues? > > IMO before thinking about converting between different programs, we > should be happy, if we can use sessions, done with different versions of > the same software. Linux is for hobby usage, not for professional usage. > That's it! Hmm, I wonder if the devs of say Ardour or similar efforts would agree on the amateur / hobbiest statement. :) Also, Mixbus is not a "hobby" oriented tool at all!! Last I checked it rolls on a Linux platform and was adapted to other OS'. Don't think Harrison is in the "hobby" biz. Yet, I digress. The point was to use something far less resource hungry on older gear that just boots into the tracking software to record live shows. Then import/export the session. As the rhetoric unravels, I realize this is not a strong use case. All things being equal, all live tracks begin at the same point in time. Importing these tracks is easy as a result. It would, however, be nice to export a Mixbus session (again, compensating for older laptop in this case) to something lighter for edits, etc. Again, thinking this thru, it's not really a practical solution. As far as the big world is concerned and it's software tool chests in all things audio... I'm not a Linux snob! I'm an advocate of using whatever it takes to get the thing done at a memorable level o quality. That can include proprietary and non free tools. I still use windows for some stuff. And osx/iOS... On planet Linux, it's easy to distract oneself from the music and lose the plot! I often will work on 'nuts n bolts" stuff that turns into some kind of personal challenge which results in "we worked so hard to see if we could, we didn't stop to consider if we should!!" (Fairlight may have been an exception! Turned out to be one of the most flexible tools of its time :) Some of it is best compared to the writer who has cleaned their desk, sharpened all their pencils, pulled a fresh notepad, aligned everything geometrically upon said desk... And written zip!! I joined up on LAU around 2000. The point then was to make music but have a whole new tool chest opened relative to digital music recording, editing & mixing. Occasionally I have to remind myself & and remember the point is still music!! Cheers! R From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 19:15:02 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:15:02 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <10AABF02-CA7D-4BC4-B18B-231096B5210C@gmail.com> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> <1410717364.26893.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <10AABF02-CA7D-4BC4-B18B-231096B5210C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1410722102.26893.25.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 11:59 -0700, Russell Hanaghan wrote: > > ~ Russell > > > On Sep 14, 2014, at 10:56 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > >> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 09:47 -0700, Russell Hanaghan wrote: > >> That, or suck it up and import .wav files to new session manually. > > > > .wav and .mid, not only .wav :p. > > > > You asked for good reasons, for something within Linux, but OTOH, the > > world is big, others might ask for something exotic, e.g. to transform > > from Fairlight to Qtractor and vice versa. I only touched one Fairlight > > workstation in my live and it was broken :D, already before I touched > > it ;). > > > > Could you share Ardour2 and Ardour3 sessions, without issues? > > > > IMO before thinking about converting between different programs, we > > should be happy, if we can use sessions, done with different versions of > > the same software. Linux is for hobby usage, not for professional usage. > > That's it! > > Hmm, I wonder if the devs of say Ardour or similar efforts would agree on the amateur / hobbiest statement. :) Also, Mixbus is not a "hobby" oriented tool at all!! Last I checked it rolls on a Linux platform and was adapted to other OS'. Don't think Harrison is in the "hobby" biz. Yet, I digress. > > The point was to use something far less resource hungry on older gear that just boots into the tracking software to record live shows. Then import/export the session. As the rhetoric unravels, I realize this is not a strong use case. All things being equal, all live tracks begin at the same point in time. Importing these tracks is easy as a result. It would, however, be nice to export a Mixbus session (again, compensating for older laptop in this case) to something lighter for edits, etc. Again, thinking this thru, it's not really a practical solution. > > As far as the big world is concerned and it's software tool chests in all things audio... I'm not a Linux snob! I'm an advocate of using whatever it takes to get the thing done at a memorable level o quality. That can include proprietary and non free tools. I still use windows for some stuff. And osx/iOS... On planet Linux, it's easy to distract oneself from the music and lose the plot! I often will work on 'nuts n bolts" stuff that turns into some kind of personal challenge which results in "we worked so hard to see if we could, we didn't stop to consider if we should!!" (Fairlight may have been an exception! Turned out to be one of the most flexible tools of its time :) Some of it is best compared to the writer who has cleaned their desk, sharpened all their pencils, pulled a fresh notepad, aligned everything geometrically upon said desk... And written zip!! > > I joined up on LAU around 2000. The point then was to make music but have a whole new tool chest opened relative to digital music recording, editing & mixing. > > Occasionally I have to remind myself & and remember the point is still music!! > > Cheers! > > R You are right :), I just wanted to point out the extremes. IMO we reached a point where different approaches of using digital technology can't be transformed anymore. If you're using approach a, you can't transform it for usage with the approach of workstation b. Btw. there is nothing as professional and non-professional anymore. There are still a few capitalistic standards and societies, but with or without old school professional engineers, music industry is history. Nowadays musicians have the chance to use the Internet, there's no need for professional audio studios, no need for mafia collecting societies. For creativity it's a big advantage, just audio quality usually suffers from the new kind of world view, when amp emulating algorithms used with bad pre-amps should be able to emulate real analog instruments amps etc., or people never learned to use EQs and instead they flatten everything using compressors. From jonetsu at teksavvy.com Sun Sep 14 19:21:00 2014 From: jonetsu at teksavvy.com (jonetsu at teksavvy.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:21:00 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Smoothing congas Message-ID: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> Hi, Congas (in this case Wavedrum congas # 19) have sometimes hits louder than others. Eg. the player hits more forcefully at times. What would be a good way to even out the output (recorded in Ardour) so that the stronger hits do not stand out as much in the mix ? Cheers. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 19:34:14 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:34:14 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Smoothing congas In-Reply-To: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> References: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> Message-ID: <1410723254.29453.1.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 15:21 -0400, jonetsu at teksavvy.com wrote: > Congas (in this case Wavedrum congas # 19) have sometimes hits louder > than others. Eg. the player hits more forcefully at times. What would > be a good way to even out the output (recorded in Ardour) so that the > stronger hits do not stand out as much in the mix ? In this case a compressor is the only good choice. Decrease the dynamic range. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 19:41:22 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:41:22 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Smoothing congas In-Reply-To: <1410723254.29453.1.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> <1410723254.29453.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1410723682.29453.3.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 21:34 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 15:21 -0400, jonetsu at teksavvy.com wrote: > > Congas (in this case Wavedrum congas # 19) have sometimes hits louder > > than others. Eg. the player hits more forcefully at times. What would > > be a good way to even out the output (recorded in Ardour) so that the > > stronger hits do not stand out as much in the mix ? > > In this case a compressor is the only good choice. Decrease the dynamic > range. Without hearing it, I can't say if you should use the stereo sum's compressor or if a compressor for the conga track(s) should be used, to compensate this. From rmouneyres at gmail.com Sun Sep 14 19:42:23 2014 From: rmouneyres at gmail.com (raf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:42:23 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Smoothing congas In-Reply-To: <1410723254.29453.1.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> <1410723254.29453.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: > On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 15:21 -0400, jonetsu at teksavvy.com wrote: >> Congas (in this case Wavedrum congas # 19) have sometimes hits louder >> than others. Eg. the player hits more forcefully at times. What would >> be a good way to even out the output (recorded in Ardour) so that the >> stronger hits do not stand out as much in the mix ? > > In this case a compressor is the only good choice. Decrease the dynamic > range. sometimes using a (lookahead) limiter is easier than bad setting a compressor. You could try both compressor and limiter to find the one best for you. Calf has good ones. From harryhaaren at gmail.com Sun Sep 14 19:48:09 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 20:48:09 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Smoothing congas In-Reply-To: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> References: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:21 PM, jonetsu at teksavvy.com wrote: > so that the stronger hits do not stand out as much in the mix ? A compressor is generally used for this: try a ratio of 2:1, middle setting for attack & release time, no make-up gain. While listening to a 4 bar loop of the congas, bring down the threshold down, and find where it starts to have an effect. Find something suitable, that it removes a little of the peak, but not too much: use your ears :) With those settings, try changing the attack , and see what setting works well. A longer attack on a compressor allows the initial "peak" to cut trough, and then compression will kick in. Shorter attacks will tame all the peaks, but will give a somewhat unnatural sound. Hope that helps, -Harry -- www.openavproductions.com From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 19:48:38 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:48:38 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Smoothing congas In-Reply-To: References: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> <1410723254.29453.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1410724118.29453.5.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 21:42 +0200, raf wrote: > > On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 15:21 -0400, jonetsu at teksavvy.com wrote: > >> Congas (in this case Wavedrum congas # 19) have sometimes hits louder > >> than others. Eg. the player hits more forcefully at times. What would > >> be a good way to even out the output (recorded in Ardour) so that the > >> stronger hits do not stand out as much in the mix ? > > > > In this case a compressor is the only good choice. Decrease the dynamic > > range. > > sometimes using a (lookahead) limiter is easier than bad setting a compressor. You could try both compressor and limiter to find the one best for you. > Calf has good ones. That's ok, but using a limiter, there's the need to listen very well ;), a limiter likely could cause unwanted side effects. I dislike to use a compressor, but much more I dislike to use a limiter. But there's nothing wrong with the assumption that a limiter could be the right tool. What to use, a limiter and/or compressor for the conga track(s), or just a compressor for the stereo sum, depends to the kind of unwanted dynamic range. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 19:55:46 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:55:46 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Smoothing congas In-Reply-To: References: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> Message-ID: <1410724546.29453.7.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 20:48 +0100, Harry van Haaren wrote: > A compressor is generally used for this: try a ratio of 2:1, middle > setting for attack & release time, no make-up gain. > > While listening to a 4 bar loop of the congas, bring down the > threshold down, and find where it starts to have an effect. Find > something suitable, that it removes a little of the peak, but not too > much: use your ears :) > > With those settings, try changing the attack , and see what setting > works well. A longer attack on a compressor allows the initial "peak" > to cut trough, and then compression will kick in. Shorter attacks will > tame all the peaks, but will give a somewhat unnatural sound. IMO that's a good advice for somebody who start learning how to handle this issue. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 20:10:20 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:10:20 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Smoothing congas In-Reply-To: References: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> Message-ID: <1410725420.29453.9.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 20:48 +0100, Harry van Haaren wrote: > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 8:21 PM, jonetsu at teksavvy.com > wrote: > > so that the stronger hits do not stand out as much in the mix ? > > A compressor is generally used for this: try a ratio of 2:1, middle > setting for attack & release time, no make-up gain. > > While listening to a 4 bar loop of the congas, bring down the > threshold down, and find where it starts to have an effect. Find > something suitable, that it removes a little of the peak, but not too > much: use your ears :) > > With those settings, try changing the attack , and see what setting > works well. A longer attack on a compressor allows the initial "peak" > to cut trough, and then compression will kick in. Shorter attacks will > tame all the peaks, but will give a somewhat unnatural sound. JFTR for the conga tack(s) the OP could use a simple compressor, but it's worth the effort to test a multi band compressor for the stereo sum first. From jonetsu at teksavvy.com Sun Sep 14 20:38:28 2014 From: jonetsu at teksavvy.com (jonetsu at teksavvy.com) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 16:38:28 -0400 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Smoothing congas In-Reply-To: <1410725420.29453.9.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> <1410725420.29453.9.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140914163828.074b3f2a@mistral> On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:10:20 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote : > JFTR for the conga tack(s) the OP could use a simple compressor, but > it's worth the effort to test a multi band compressor for the stereo > sum first. Thanks all for the comments. Question: what is the 'stereo sum' ? Not that the conga track mono/stereo could matter (maybe ?, although it is mono). From murks at tuxfamily.org Sun Sep 14 20:38:36 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:38:36 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Smoothing congas In-Reply-To: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> References: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> Message-ID: <20140914223836.4396c763@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 15:21:00 -0400 "jonetsu at teksavvy.com" wrote: > Hi, > > Congas (in this case Wavedrum congas # 19) have sometimes hits > louder than others. Eg. the player hits more forcefully at times. > What would be a good way to even out the output (recorded in Ardour) > so that the stronger hits do not stand out as much in the mix ? > > Cheers. Optimally the musician would play it again, because even if you compress or otherwise modify the recording to smooth out the loud hits they might still have a different character. Besides the compression mentioned by Harry and others you might be able to manually edit the individual hits. You could slice the hits and lower volume, which would only work if the hits are clearly separate, but would have the benefit that the character of the hits would remain unaffected. Another way would be to use some careful volume automation. Regards, Philipp From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sun Sep 14 20:50:20 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:50:20 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Smoothing congas In-Reply-To: <20140914163828.074b3f2a@mistral> References: <20140914152100.601b9088@mistral> <1410725420.29453.9.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140914163828.074b3f2a@mistral> Message-ID: <1410727820.29453.13.camel@rocketmail.com> On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 16:38 -0400, jonetsu at teksavvy.com wrote: > On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:10:20 +0200, > Ralf Mardorf wrote : > > > JFTR for the conga tack(s) the OP could use a simple compressor, but > > it's worth the effort to test a multi band compressor for the stereo > > sum first. > > Thanks all for the comments. Question: what is the 'stereo sum' ? Not > that the conga track mono/stereo could matter (maybe ?, although it is > mono). Stereo sum is the mix of all audio tracks. There's a difference if yo use a dynamic effect for the mix of all tracks or for some tracks before they are mixed to the stereo output. On Sun, 2014-09-14 at 22:38 +0200, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > Optimally But the OP runs into a situation that isn't optimal ;). > manually edit the individual hits That's neither a bad, nor a good advice, it still depends to the kind of unwanted dynamic. Since conga hits don't overlap with other beats as often as other sounds do, it might be possible to use an editor, OTOH, there might be too much beats to edit them manually. From len at ovenwerks.net Sun Sep 14 21:55:38 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 14:55:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: <201409141252.09696.gheskett@wdtv.com> References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> <201409140717.01934.gheskett@wdtv.com> <201409141252.09696.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Sep 2014, Gene Heskett wrote: > On Sunday 14 September 2014 11:53:06 Len Ovens did opine >> I agree that would make a lot of sense. I think there are some other >> tools that could do some of these things too. However, many people >> even in linux audio rely on OOTB setups. It is hard for a distro to > > Folks who aren't willing to ask questions and do what they are told, > should probably stick with one size fits all poorly windows. The addition Everyone has to start somewhere. I think it is possible to have a better OOTB linux machine than windows. If the person interested in trying linux can't do better with "out of the box", they may just give up. If they already have something better, goinng farther makes sense. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From arnold at arnoldarts.de Sun Sep 14 22:49:59 2014 From: arnold at arnoldarts.de (Arnold Krille) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 00:49:59 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> <1410718345.26893.17.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140915004959.3ab00754@xingu.arnoldarts.de> On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:39:45 -0700 Bob van der Poel wrote: > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Ralf Mardorf > wrote: > > There only is one thing we can share all over the world, recorded in > > different decades: analog tapes > > ?Well, not quite. Sheet music is quite playable after many centuries. > And no special machines are needed :)? I think the people and orchestras hunting down historic instruments to recreate the original setting for certain pieces will disagree with you on this one. - Arnold -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 230 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bob at mellowood.ca Sun Sep 14 23:21:24 2014 From: bob at mellowood.ca (Bob van der Poel) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 16:21:24 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <20140915004959.3ab00754@xingu.arnoldarts.de> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> <1410718345.26893.17.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140915004959.3ab00754@xingu.arnoldarts.de> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Arnold Krille wrote: > On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:39:45 -0700 Bob van der Poel > wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Ralf Mardorf > > wrote: > > > There only is one thing we can share all over the world, recorded in > > > different decades: analog tapes > > > > ?Well, not quite. Sheet music is quite playable after many centuries. > > And no special machines are needed :)? > > I think the people and orchestras hunting down historic instruments to > recreate the original setting for certain pieces will disagree with you > on this one. > ?Well, I did say this with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek while transcribing some Haydn. But, despite t?he fact that my little group will be playing it with totally different instruments, etc. ... I'm sure that Papa would recognize his tune. My point is that a piece of paper is very "archival" ... a piece of tape or a shiny plastic disk in 100 or 200 years? -- **** Listen to my FREE CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob at mellowood.ca WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From idragosani at gmail.com Sun Sep 14 23:28:24 2014 From: idragosani at gmail.com (Brett McCoy) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 19:28:24 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> <1410718345.26893.17.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140915004959.3ab00754@xingu.arnoldarts.de> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:21 PM, Bob van der Poel wrote: > > > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Arnold Krille > wrote: > >> On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:39:45 -0700 Bob van der Poel >> wrote: >> > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Ralf Mardorf >> > wrote: >> > > There only is one thing we can share all over the world, recorded in >> > > different decades: analog tapes >> > >> > ?Well, not quite. Sheet music is quite playable after many centuries. >> > And no special machines are needed :)? >> >> I think the people and orchestras hunting down historic instruments to >> recreate the original setting for certain pieces will disagree with you >> on this one. >> > > ?Well, I did say this with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek while > transcribing some Haydn. But, despite t?he fact that my little group will > be playing it with totally different instruments, etc. ... I'm sure that > Papa would recognize his tune. My point is that a piece of paper is very > "archival" ... a piece of tape or a shiny plastic disk in 100 or 200 years? > Case in point... some lute tablature from the late 1500s... http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/home/index.php?DRIS_ID=MS410_003 -- Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world." -- Jelaleddin Rumi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ken at restivo.org Mon Sep 15 01:52:24 2014 From: ken at restivo.org (Ken Restivo) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 18:52:24 -0700 Subject: [LAU] ALSA resampling Message-ID: <20140915015224.GA5069@q400a.mobile.restivo.org> Being lazy here, so quick question: I'm looking for a simple way to resample in ALSA from a capture/play interface that supports only 48kHz, to 44.1kHz which is desired. Both playback and capture resampling is needed, and it seems I neeed dsnoop and dmix. However, I am bewildered by the somewhat byzantine configuration of .asoundrc. There's one card on this machine, a "SB LIVE!" (which means "48kHz only!"), running the emu10k driver. There's no JACK up in this at all, it's just an old streaming PC running BUTT. There is also no PulseAudio because I avoid PulseAudio. If I were using ices2 I suppose I could use its built-in resampling, but that's not an option in this case. -ken From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Sep 15 02:49:09 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 16:49:09 -1000 Subject: [LAU] another cpu question In-Reply-To: References: <54144A41.5030301@nebelschwaden.de> <201409140717.01934.gheskett@wdtv.com> <201409141252.09696.gheskett@wdtv.com> Message-ID: <541653A5.2020206@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/14/2014 11:55 AM, Len Ovens wrote: > On Sun, 14 Sep 2014, Gene Heskett wrote: > >> On Sunday 14 September 2014 11:53:06 Len Ovens did opine >>> I agree that would make a lot of sense. I think there are some other >>> tools that could do some of these things too. However, many people >>> even in linux audio rely on OOTB setups. It is hard for a distro to >> >> Folks who aren't willing to ask questions and do what they are told, >> should probably stick with one size fits all poorly windows. The >> addition > > Everyone has to start somewhere. I think it is possible to have a better > OOTB linux machine than windows. If the person interested in trying > linux can't do better with "out of the box", they may just give up. If > they already have something better, goinng farther makes sense. After watching a musically-capable but non-technical friend of ours struggle through three different Windows systems (built, configured and supplied by one of the companies that sells pro music stuff, I forget exactly which ones he's gone through, with their extensive technical support help) in his effort to make music using computers ... Windows can't provide an OOTB pro audio experience, either. Hate to say this, but Macintosh might be the better choice for OOTB pro audio if someone's not interested in learning enough to do it through Linux. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Mon Sep 15 03:03:19 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 17:03:19 -1000 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Update: Lightweight WM that can be used without any issue with audio applications In-Reply-To: <5415A090.5060801@autostatic.com> References: <1409117141.13214.101.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140827112423.6e7f760a@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1410681451.22679.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <1410681832.22679.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140914094622.18fadd61@debian> <1410700973.22679.13.camel@rocketmail.com> <5415A090.5060801@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <541656F7.4030003@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/14/2014 04:05 AM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > On 09/14/2014 03:22 PM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> OTOH now, for the very first time, GIMPs main window hides it's head >> under the panel by just opening GIMP. I didn't move the window manually. >> This seems to be openbox related. > > I never have these issues. Did you try with a different, clean user account? I've occasionally had that happen with XFCE, but not with GIMP. Have had it happen with XFCE's Thunar file manager, once with LibreOffice Writer. Also had it happen on my wife's netbook (Ubuntu 14.02 LTS with XFCE). Logging out and back in again (just to restart the XFCE session) fixes it. It might be video-driver related. -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From ken at restivo.org Mon Sep 15 04:01:23 2014 From: ken at restivo.org (Ken Restivo) Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:01:23 -0700 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140915040123.GA2321@tf101> On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 10:35:24PM +0200, Carlo Ascani wrote: > "A Passionate Tribute" is a 3 song EP made in Linux. > > You can hear that on bandcamp: > https://lotfi.bandcamp.com/album/a-passionate-tribute-ep > or download the tracks from: > > http://carlorat.me/carpenter.flac > http://carlorat.me/fulci.flac > http://carlorat.me/bava.flac > > This is totally hobbystic, I made it just for fun, in my home. > My setup looks like this: > http://i.imgur.com/9cpuZLe.jpg > And yes, the amiga is playing as a soft synth in some part. > > The acoustic drums were recorded in another house, and they are these: > http://linux-audio.4202.n7.nabble.com/A-short-story-from-zero-to-recording-the-drums-in-a-budget-td91632.html > > Here is a couple of words about song meanings: > http://carlorat.me/quote/apassionatetribute/ > Nice! +1 for the "They Live" sample too. -ken From o_v_ofr at yahoo.fr Mon Sep 15 14:54:39 2014 From: o_v_ofr at yahoo.fr (OvO OvO) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 15:54:39 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Sound Devices - USBPRE 2 - Status ? Message-ID: <1410792879.66168.YahooMailNeo@web172805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Hello everyone. Looking for a external sound card with good preamp to record. Found the Sound Devices USBPRE 2 suits my need. Browsing the web, the Sound Devices web site and this list, it seems to be supported for UAC1 with no trouble but only with 48khz. The message is now old : http://linuxaudio.org/mailarchive/lau/2013/1/25/196179 Anyone can give some update about the UAC2 status with Alsa on this card ? Please. ps: running a Gnu/Debian Stable. Best. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From csanchezgs at gmail.com Mon Sep 15 15:10:23 2014 From: csanchezgs at gmail.com (Carlos sanchiavedraz) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 17:10:23 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Ardour: Recorded regions in one track to individual tracks Message-ID: Hello dear all. Some time ago, maybe years because I think it was Ardour2 at that time, somebody asked if anyone knew a non-manual-tidious way to have all the playlists of one track in Ardour converted to individual tracks. This was to be able to Solo/Mute each take to filter the best ones instead of constantly changing playlists. Well, I would like to refresh that question (for Ardour2 and Ardour3 now) and ask more or less the same again but for individual segments in a track that were recorded on a tracking session. The reason why this segments are all in the same track is that they were recorded by the same person who was playing and at that moment it was quicker to do like that instead of having to deal with playlists in every recording track or several new tracks one for each take and source recorded. I guess there are many DIY musicians that have experienced this and maybe come to a solution, or maybe there's some functionality in Ardour I'm not aware of. Thanks in advance as always. Regards. -- C. sanchiavedraZ: * NEW / NUEVO: www.sanchiavedraZ.com * Musix GNU+Linux: www.musix.es -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clemens at ladisch.de Mon Sep 15 15:49:47 2014 From: clemens at ladisch.de (Clemens Ladisch) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 17:49:47 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Sound Devices - USBPRE 2 - Status ? In-Reply-To: <1410792879.66168.YahooMailNeo@web172805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <1410792879.66168.YahooMailNeo@web172805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <54170A9B.9020104@ladisch.de> OvO OvO wrote: > Found the Sound Devices USBPRE 2 suits my need. > Browsing the web, the Sound Devices web site and this list, it seems to be supported for UAC1 with no trouble but only with 48khz. > The message is now old : > http://linuxaudio.org/mailarchive/lau/2013/1/25/196179 > > Anyone can give some update about the UAC2 status with Alsa on this card ? I'd guess that the firmware still thinks that Linux is Windows. Regards, Clemens From shal at free.fr Mon Sep 15 16:43:49 2014 From: shal at free.fr (shal at free.fr) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 18:43:49 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] Sound Devices - USBPRE 2 - Status ? In-Reply-To: <54170A9B.9020104@ladisch.de> Message-ID: <291939084.169262602.1410799429484.JavaMail.root@spooler2-g27.priv.proxad.net> ----- Mail original ----- > De: "Clemens Ladisch" > ?: linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > Envoy?: Lundi 15 Septembre 2014 17:49:47 > Objet: Re: [LAU] Sound Devices - USBPRE 2 - Status ? > > OvO OvO wrote: > > Found the Sound Devices USBPRE 2 suits my need. > > Browsing the web, the Sound Devices web site and this list, it > > seems to be supported for UAC1 with no trouble but only with > > 48khz. > > The message is now old : > > http://linuxaudio.org/mailarchive/lau/2013/1/25/196179 > > > > Anyone can give some update about the UAC2 status with Alsa on this > > card ? > > I'd guess that the firmware still thinks that Linux is Windows. > Hi all, I am the author of the cited "old message". I am OK with you Clemens but the ASIO driver enable higher sampling rates on the usbpre2. It's perhaps possible to understand how the ASIO driver works and emulate this behavior ? I have sold my usbPre2 so I cannot continue test. Olivier From jhernberg at alchemy.lu Mon Sep 15 16:55:40 2014 From: jhernberg at alchemy.lu (Joakim Hernberg) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 18:55:40 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <1410722102.26893.25.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> <1410717364.26893.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <10AABF02-CA7D-4BC4-B18B-231096B5210C@gmail.com> <1410722102.26893.25.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140915185540.1d6dd57e@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:15:02 +0200 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > You are right :), I just wanted to point out the extremes. IMO we > reached a point where different approaches of using digital technology > can't be transformed anymore. If you're using approach a, you can't > transform it for usage with the approach of workstation b. There is always the option of using wave files, or rendering tracks to .wav and then import them. -- Joakim From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Sep 15 18:03:39 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:03:39 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <20140915185540.1d6dd57e@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> <1410717364.26893.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <10AABF02-CA7D-4BC4-B18B-231096B5210C@gmail.com> <1410722102.26893.25.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140915185540.1d6dd57e@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> Message-ID: <1410804219.3402.38.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-15 at 18:55 +0200, Joakim Hernberg wrote: > There is always the option of using wave files, or rendering tracks to > .wav and then import them. >From the beginning to the end, you also can do this for .mid files, it's just hard to share the edited files, the clips and automation. From jhernberg at alchemy.lu Mon Sep 15 20:25:44 2014 From: jhernberg at alchemy.lu (Joakim Hernberg) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 22:25:44 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <1410804219.3402.38.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <20140912155318.6b26955d5fe5ba2efa780c05@brainiac.com> <40E081AE-C607-4F8F-A88D-6595BB1CB382@gmail.com> <1410717364.26893.15.camel@rocketmail.com> <10AABF02-CA7D-4BC4-B18B-231096B5210C@gmail.com> <1410722102.26893.25.camel@rocketmail.com> <20140915185540.1d6dd57e@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> <1410804219.3402.38.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140915222544.1d1e34d4@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> On Mon, 15 Sep 2014 20:03:39 +0200 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Mon, 2014-09-15 at 18:55 +0200, Joakim Hernberg wrote: > > There is always the option of using wave files, or rendering tracks > > to .wav and then import them. > > From the beginning to the end, you also can do this for .mid files, > it's just hard to share the edited files, the clips and automation. Yes, if you have edits, fx or automation you'd have to render each track before moving it into another daw, on the other hand the same was/is true of tape.. -- Joakim From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Tue Sep 16 02:50:46 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 22:50:46 -0400 Subject: [LAU] ALSA resampling In-Reply-To: <20140915015224.GA5069@q400a.mobile.restivo.org> References: <20140915015224.GA5069@q400a.mobile.restivo.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Ken Restivo wrote: > Being lazy here, so quick question: > > I'm looking for a simple way to resample in ALSA from a capture/play > interface that supports only 48kHz, to 44.1kHz which is desired. > > Both playback and capture resampling is needed, and it seems I neeed > dsnoop and dmix. > > However, I am bewildered by the somewhat byzantine configuration of > .asoundrc. > just telling an application to use "plughw:CARDNAME" should get you what you want. you need to do more if you want to control which resampling quality you get. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jeb at ponderworthy.com Tue Sep 16 02:59:57 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E. Brickman) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 21:59:57 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Update to "Robust Session Management" Message-ID: A major rewrite; quite a lot faster and better now, was needed for an enormous patch in the works: http://lsn.ponderworthy.com/doku.php/robust_session_management Now using Python scripts for process management, a separate hand-off method for patch changes, and other improvements. -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com From ken at restivo.org Tue Sep 16 05:05:57 2014 From: ken at restivo.org (Ken Restivo) Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 22:05:57 -0700 Subject: [LAU] ALSA resampling In-Reply-To: References: <20140915015224.GA5069@q400a.mobile.restivo.org> Message-ID: <20140916050557.GC21489@q400a.mobile.restivo.org> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 10:50:46PM -0400, Paul Davis wrote: > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 9:52 PM, Ken Restivo wrote: > > > Being lazy here, so quick question: > > > > I'm looking for a simple way to resample in ALSA from a capture/play > > interface that supports only 48kHz, to 44.1kHz which is desired. > > > > Both playback and capture resampling is needed, and it seems I neeed > > dsnoop and dmix. > > > > However, I am bewildered by the somewhat byzantine configuration of > > .asoundrc. > > > > just telling an application to use "plughw:CARDNAME" should get you what > you want. > > you need to do more if you want to control which resampling quality you get. Thanks. It seems the latest version of ALSA seems to have a default plughw interface wrapped around on this particular card, because it "just works" at 44.1kHz and many other samplerates too, even though we know that the hardware only does 48kHz. So in this case the problem was simply solved by upgrading. -ken From brummer- at web.de Tue Sep 16 05:12:19 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:12:19 +0200 Subject: [LAU] ALSA resampling In-Reply-To: <20140916050557.GC21489@q400a.mobile.restivo.org> References: <20140915015224.GA5069@q400a.mobile.restivo.org> <20140916050557.GC21489@q400a.mobile.restivo.org> Message-ID: <5417C6B3.6080707@web.de> Am 16.09.2014 07:05, schrieb Ken Restivo: > Thanks. It seems the latest version of ALSA seems to have a default plughw interface wrapped around on this particular card, because it "just works" at 44.1kHz and many other samplerates too, even though we know that the hardware only does 48kHz. So in this case the problem was simply solved by upgrading. > > -ken That remind me on this one: http://www.stickycomics.com/computer-update/ :-) From clemens at ladisch.de Tue Sep 16 07:04:08 2014 From: clemens at ladisch.de (Clemens Ladisch) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:04:08 +0200 Subject: [LAU] ALSA resampling In-Reply-To: <20140915015224.GA5069@q400a.mobile.restivo.org> References: <20140915015224.GA5069@q400a.mobile.restivo.org> Message-ID: <5417E0E8.3000108@ladisch.de> Ken Restivo wrote: > I'm looking for a simple way to resample in ALSA from a capture/play > interface that supports only 48kHz, to 44.1kHz which is desired. > > Both playback and capture resampling is needed, and it seems I neeed > dsnoop and dmix. > > There's one card on this machine, a "SB LIVE!" (which means "48kHz > only!"), running the emu10k driver. This card has a wavetable synthesizer, which can dynamically resample and mix together 64 voices. You need neither resampling nor dmix. Regards, Clemens From hanswil at notam02.no Tue Sep 16 07:55:43 2014 From: hanswil at notam02.no (Hans Wilmers) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:55:43 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Sound Devices - USBPRE 2 - Status ? In-Reply-To: <1410792879.66168.YahooMailNeo@web172805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <1410792879.66168.YahooMailNeo@web172805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5417ECFF.5010602@notam02.no> On 09/15/2014 04:54 PM, OvO OvO wrote: > Hello everyone. > > Looking for a external sound card with good preamp to record. > Found the Sound Devices USBPRE 2 suits my need. > Browsing the web, the Sound Devices web site and this list, it seems to > be supported for UAC1 with no trouble but only with 48khz. > The message is now old : > http://linuxaudio.org/mailarchive/lau/2013/1/25/196179 > > Anyone can give some update about the UAC2 status with Alsa on this card > ? Please. > The USBPre2 works fine with UAC2 on recent kernels. With Fedora 19, kernel 3.14.17, I get these samplerates: 32000/44100/48000/88200/96000/192000 Excellent interface with good specs and ergonomics. / Hans From hanswil at notam02.no Tue Sep 16 08:12:36 2014 From: hanswil at notam02.no (Hans Wilmers) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 10:12:36 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Sound Devices - USBPRE 2 - Status ? In-Reply-To: <5417ECFF.5010602@notam02.no> References: <1410792879.66168.YahooMailNeo@web172805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <5417ECFF.5010602@notam02.no> Message-ID: <5417F0F4.6070700@notam02.no> On 09/16/2014 09:55 AM, Hans Wilmers wrote: > > The USBPre2 works fine with UAC2 on recent kernels. > > With Fedora 19, kernel 3.14.17, I get these samplerates: > 32000/44100/48000/88200/96000/192000 > I have to moderate that a bit: I can set up all sample rates as above, but the effective sample rate as shown by qjackctl is max. 48000. No error message is shown in case the effective sample rate is not the chosen one. Any idea why this happens? / Hans From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Tue Sep 16 13:17:26 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 09:17:26 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Sound Devices - USBPRE 2 - Status ? In-Reply-To: <5417F0F4.6070700@notam02.no> References: <1410792879.66168.YahooMailNeo@web172805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <5417ECFF.5010602@notam02.no> <5417F0F4.6070700@notam02.no> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Hans Wilmers wrote: > On 09/16/2014 09:55 AM, Hans Wilmers wrote: > >> >> The USBPre2 works fine with UAC2 on recent kernels. >> >> With Fedora 19, kernel 3.14.17, I get these samplerates: >> 32000/44100/48000/88200/96000/192000 >> >> > I have to moderate that a bit: > I can set up all sample rates as above, but the effective sample rate as > shown by qjackctl is max. 48000. > No error message is shown in case the effective sample rate is not the > chosen one. > JACK asks ALSA for the nearest sample rate available. It does not print errors when they do not match. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hanswil at notam02.no Tue Sep 16 13:29:01 2014 From: hanswil at notam02.no (Hans Wilmers) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 15:29:01 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Sound Devices - USBPRE 2 - Status ? In-Reply-To: References: <1410792879.66168.YahooMailNeo@web172805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <5417ECFF.5010602@notam02.no> <5417F0F4.6070700@notam02.no> Message-ID: <54183B1D.1040503@notam02.no> On 09/16/2014 03:17 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Hans Wilmers > wrote: > > On 09/16/2014 09:55 AM, Hans Wilmers wrote: > > > The USBPre2 works fine with UAC2 on recent kernels. > > With Fedora 19, kernel 3.14.17, I get these samplerates: > 32000/44100/48000/88200/96000/192000 > > > I have to moderate that a bit: > I can set up all sample rates as above, but the effective sample > rate as shown by qjackctl is max. 48000. > No error message is shown in case the effective sample rate is not > the chosen one. > > > JACK asks ALSA for the nearest sample rate available. It does not print > errors when they do not match. > OK, I understand. The max. samplerate we get through Alsa is 48000 then. / Hans From cbannister at slingshot.co.nz Tue Sep 16 14:14:06 2014 From: cbannister at slingshot.co.nz (Chris Bannister) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 02:14:06 +1200 Subject: [LAU] Ardour: Recorded regions in one track to individual tracks In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140916141406.GK25730@tal> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 05:10:23PM +0200, Carlos sanchiavedraz wrote: > Hello dear all. > > Some time ago, maybe years because I think it was Ardour2 at that time, > somebody asked if anyone knew a non-manual-tidious way to have all the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Automatic is probably the English word you are looking for. :) -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Sep 16 20:41:54 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 13:41:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Update to "Robust Session Management" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Sep 2014, Jonathan E. Brickman wrote: > A major rewrite; quite a lot faster and better now, was needed for an > enormous patch in the works: > > http://lsn.ponderworthy.com/doku.php/robust_session_management > > Now using Python scripts for process management, a separate hand-off method > for patch changes, and other improvements. An interesting site. I am surprised that these things are so fragile and that Jack and synths have to be restarted. However, while I do dabble in keyboard like playing (not piano), I am not a keyboard palyer at heart. SO I have not really pushed synth setups. The one thing your site does not say anything about is the "I know it must be there" MIDI controler. I am assuming Keyboard, but I don't know. It just seems it must be anoying not to be able to use the program/patch selection section of the keyboard, or do you? I guess my question is what all performance controls do you use on stage? I understand that the controler itself is probably not "open" etc. but what kind of controls are used would be interesting, keys only? patch change? are there sliders or rotary controls? It seems USB audio is less than the best thing to use. I have an old audio card with game controler MIDI, It seems pretty solid. I have never had it quit on me. My keyboard is a DX7 which means only minimal extra controls besides the keys. Do you use any external sound generation at all? -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From jeb at ponderworthy.com Wed Sep 17 00:17:35 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 00:17:35 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Update to "Robust Session Management" References: Message-ID: Thanks, Len. You make great points. A new page in the works right now :-) J.E.B. A major rewrite; quite a lot faster and better now, was needed for an enormous patch in the works: http://lsn.ponderworthy.com/doku.php/robust_session_management Now using Python scripts for process management, a separate hand-off method for patch changes, and other improvements. An interesting site. I am surprised that these things are so fragile and that Jack and synths have to be restarted. However, while I do dabble in keyboard like playing (not piano), I am not a keyboard palyer at heart. SO I have not really pushed synth setups. The one thing your site does not say anything about is the "I know it must be there" MIDI controler. I am assuming Keyboard, but I don't know. It just seems it must be anoying not to be able to use the program/patch selection section of the keyboard, or do you? I guess my question is what all performance controls do you use on stage? I understand that the controler itself is probably not "open" etc. but what kind of controls are used would be interesting, keys only? patch change? are there sliders or rotary controls? It seems USB audio is less than the best thing to use. I have an old audio card with game controler MIDI, It seems pretty solid. I have never had it quit on me. My keyboard is a DX7 which means only minimal extra controls besides the keys. Do you use any external sound generation at all? -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From janina at rednote.net Wed Sep 17 08:15:59 2014 From: janina at rednote.net (Janina Sajka) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:15:59 -0400 Subject: [LAU] mplayer no go with snd-hdsp Message-ID: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> Hi, I've recently gotten my RME Multiface up and working quite satisfactorally with current Linux kernels. I'm very happy, especially as I had a long run of it not working for some reason I never teased out. So, I find I can aplay and arecord, and I can use ecasound, and a few other cli tools. But, I can't use mplayer. Am I the only one? Anyone else tried mplayer on the Multiface? For cli tools mplayer gives me the ability to pause, or move backwards and forwards through the audio file. This is important to me because I learn music these days by ear. I know one can do this in the gui, but as a blind user the Linux gui audio apps aren't particularly friendly in my experience. Besides, it's so terribly simple, if rather imprecise, to use spacebar, left-arrow, and right-arrow. The error I get: Opening audio decoder: [pcm] Uncompressed PCM audio decoder AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 1536.0 kbit/100.00% (ratio: 192000->192000) Selected audio codec: [pcm] afm: pcm (Uncompressed PCM) ========================================================================== [AO_ALSA] alsa-lib: pcm_hw.c:327:(snd_pcm_hw_hw_params) SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed (-16): Device or resource busy [AO_ALSA] Unable to set hw-parameters: Device or resource busy Failed to initialize audio driver 'alsa:device=plughw=8.0' Could not open/initialize audio device -> no sound. Audio: no sound Video: no video Exiting... (End of file) Meanwhile, aplay and ecaplay have no problems. So, I thought I should ask if anyone else has experienced this before reporting to mplayer devs. TIA Janina -- Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 sip:janina at asterisk.rednote.net Email: janina at rednote.net Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/ From gg3137 at vegri.net Wed Sep 17 08:43:20 2014 From: gg3137 at vegri.net (Giso Grimm) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 10:43:20 +0200 Subject: [LAU] mplayer no go with snd-hdsp In-Reply-To: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> Message-ID: <541949A8.2040009@vegri.net> On 09/17/2014 10:15 AM, Janina Sajka wrote: > But, I can't use mplayer. Am I the only one? Anyone else tried mplayer > on the Multiface? I use mplayer with the jack backend on a RME hdsp card without problems. I can reproduce the problem you describe with the alsa backend. -- Giso > > > For cli tools mplayer gives me the ability to pause, or move backwards > and forwards through the audio file. This is important to me because I > learn music these days by ear. > > I know one can do this in the gui, but as a blind user the Linux gui > audio apps aren't particularly friendly in my experience. Besides, it's > so terribly simple, if rather imprecise, to use spacebar, left-arrow, > and right-arrow. > > The error I get: > > Opening audio decoder: [pcm] Uncompressed PCM audio decoder > AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 1536.0 kbit/100.00% (ratio: > 192000->192000) > Selected audio codec: [pcm] afm: pcm (Uncompressed PCM) > ========================================================================== > [AO_ALSA] alsa-lib: pcm_hw.c:327:(snd_pcm_hw_hw_params) > SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed (-16): Device or resource busy > [AO_ALSA] Unable to set hw-parameters: Device or resource busy > Failed to initialize audio driver 'alsa:device=plughw=8.0' > Could not open/initialize audio device -> no sound. > Audio: no sound > Video: no video > > > Exiting... (End of file) > > Meanwhile, aplay and ecaplay have no problems. So, I thought I should > ask if anyone else has experienced this before reporting to mplayer > devs. > > TIA > > Janina > > From silvain at freeshell.de Wed Sep 17 09:57:36 2014 From: silvain at freeshell.de (F. Silvain) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:57:36 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] mplayer no go with snd-hdsp In-Reply-To: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> Message-ID: <1409171155180.3514@freeshell.de> Hey Janina, I suggest the same as Giso. If you are learning music, you might want to use other audio apps at the same time anyway. So go for the JACK Audio Connection Kit. I've used it ever since I started with Linux. I don't have an RME, but I have a multichannel audio interface. I hope this is a viable solution for you setup. Ta-ta, Ffanci Janina Sajka, Sep 17 2014: > Hi, > > I've recently gotten my RME Multiface up and working quite > satisfactorally with current Linux kernels. I'm very happy, especially > as I had a long run of it not working for some reason I never teased > out. > > So, I find I can aplay and arecord, and I can use ecasound, and a few > other cli tools. > > But, I can't use mplayer. Am I the only one? Anyone else tried mplayer > on the Multiface? > > > For cli tools mplayer gives me the ability to pause, or move backwards > and forwards through the audio file. This is important to me because I > learn music these days by ear. > > I know one can do this in the gui, but as a blind user the Linux gui > audio apps aren't particularly friendly in my experience. Besides, it's > so terribly simple, if rather imprecise, to use spacebar, left-arrow, > and right-arrow. > > The error I get: > > Opening audio decoder: [pcm] Uncompressed PCM audio decoder > AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 1536.0 kbit/100.00% (ratio: > 192000->192000) > Selected audio codec: [pcm] afm: pcm (Uncompressed PCM) > ========================================================================== > [AO_ALSA] alsa-lib: pcm_hw.c:327:(snd_pcm_hw_hw_params) > SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed (-16): Device or resource busy > [AO_ALSA] Unable to set hw-parameters: Device or resource busy > Failed to initialize audio driver 'alsa:device=plughw=8.0' > Could not open/initialize audio device -> no sound. > Audio: no sound > Video: no video > > > Exiting... (End of file) > > Meanwhile, aplay and ecaplay have no problems. So, I thought I should > ask if anyone else has experienced this before reporting to mplayer > devs. > > TIA > > Janina > > > -- > > Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 > sip:janina at asterisk.rednote.net > Email: janina at rednote.net > > Linux Foundation Fellow > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf > Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > Ta-ta ---- Ffanci * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 17 10:13:15 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:13:15 +0200 Subject: [LAU] mplayer no go with snd-hdsp In-Reply-To: <1409171155180.3514@freeshell.de> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <1409171155180.3514@freeshell.de> Message-ID: <1410948795.3402.55.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-17 at 11:57 +0200, F. Silvain wrote: > So go for the JACK Audio Connection Kit. OT, but perhaps useful, if you should use jackd with several audio apps: http://sourceforge.net/projects/aj-snapshot/ Likely also available by a package for the distro you're using. From csanchezgs at gmail.com Wed Sep 17 15:18:24 2014 From: csanchezgs at gmail.com (Carlos sanchiavedraz) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:18:24 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Ardour: Recorded regions in one track to individual tracks In-Reply-To: <20140916141406.GK25730@tal> References: <20140916141406.GK25730@tal> Message-ID: 2014-09-16 14:14 GMT+00:00 Chris Bannister : > On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 05:10:23PM +0200, Carlos sanchiavedraz wrote: > > Hello dear all. > > > > Some time ago, maybe years because I think it was Ardour2 at that time, > > somebody asked if anyone knew a non-manual-tidious way to have all the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Automatic is probably the English word you are looking for. :) > > Well, yes and no :) Yes, an automatic *way* is what I'm looking for. But, no, those were just exactly the "word(s)" I wanted to write to give just a grain of salt to what it could just have been a formal and serious question. Life nowadays is just as serious as can be, and I consider myself quite able to compose that kind of texts in English. Thanks anyway, Chris, for your kind suggestion :) Regards. -- C. sanchiavedraZ: * NEW / NUEVO: www.sanchiavedraZ.com * Musix GNU+Linux: www.musix.es -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gianfranco at portalmod.com.br Wed Sep 17 15:45:52 2014 From: gianfranco at portalmod.com.br (Gianfranco Ceccolini) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 12:45:52 -0300 Subject: [LAU] [ANN] Super Announcement - All MOD software for your PC Message-ID: <5183ED3A-B45F-4F4C-A920-3AC41D224C70@portalmod.com.br> Hello Linux Audio Users and Developers In less than an our the MOD Duo Kickstarter campaign will go live and so it is with great pleasure that the MOD Team makes the announcement of the desktop versions for our entire software suite. Some of this software has already been announced in the past but, as part of our Kickstarter campaign, we put the necessary effort to have them running in a regular Linux environment and not just inside the MOD. All instructions in Github were also updated in order to yield working elements when followed. Most of this software has been under development for almost two years and their history is related to the development of the MOD itself. Being so, they carry some differences in workflow when compared to other LV2 programs and our current effort is being put on correcting those differences. The softwares are: MOD Client - run your LV2 plugins using the MOD interface. https://github.com/portalmod/mod-client ?????????????????????????????????????????? MOD SDK - plugin interface creator Use this program to create the HTML interface required by the MOD Client. If you don?t create an interface the plugins still work, but their icons will be a tuna fish can with just the ON/OFF button. When you click on the gear symbol on the upper right side of the icon you have access to the Plugin Settings Screen in which all parameters are visible. The MOD SDK is Python based and can be installed by typing ?pip install modsdk? As the MOD Client, it runs on your browser and requires a mod-workspace folder (or link) in which you place your LV2 bundles. Just run ?modsdk" in your terminal and point your browser to localhost:9000 There is also post on our blog about the SDK: http://portalmod.com/blog/2014/09/the-mod-sdk ?????????????????????????????????????????? LV2BM - tool for analyzing and benchmarking LV2 plugins Allows to select which URIs to test Uses minimum, maximum and default control values to run the plugins Uses several controls combinations in the full test mode The output shows the JACK load percent ?????????????????????????????????????????? Plugins - CAPS-LV2 LV2 port of the CAPS suite of LADSPA plugins. - TAP-LV2 - LV2 port of the TAP suite of LADSPA plugins. - Pitch shifters - http://github.com/portalmod/mod-pitchshifter Capo - up to 7 semitones up pitch shifting SuperCapo - up to 24 semitones up pitch shifting Drop - up to 12 semitones down pitch shifting SuperWhammy - continuous pitch shifting from -12 to 24 semitones Harmonizer - scale interval generator - Utilities - https://github.com/portalmod/mod-utilities Switchbox - A/B box for audio signal routing SwitchTrigger - 4 excluding channel selector ToggleSwitch - 4 non-excluding channel selector Gain (mono and stereo) Filters (LP, HP and BP) - 1st, 2nd and 3rd order Two way mono crossover - 1st, 2nd and 3rd order Three way mono crossover - 1st, 2nd and 3rd order - Distortions - mathematical simulations of classic distortion circuits BigMuff DS-1 Muff Fuzz - SopoperLooper LV2 simplified port of the SooperLooper. All plugins from our repository have the HTML MOD GUI included. In our Github repository - www.github.com/portalmod - we also have plugins that were forked from the original repositories. One of our aims is to trigger a dialogue with the developers, deprecate our forks and add the MOD interface to the original plugins but that depends on the developers and creators and shall be discussed in a one-to-one basis. Wish you all the best Kind regards Gianfranco The MOD Team From jeb at ponderworthy.com Wed Sep 17 18:32:42 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E. Brickman) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:32:42 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Update to "Robust Session Management" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5419D3CA.50102@ponderworthy.com> >> >> http://lsn.ponderworthy.com/doku.php/robust_session_management >> > > An interesting site. I am surprised that these things are so fragile > and that Jack and synths have to be restarted. However, while I do > dabble in keyboard like playing (not piano), I am not a keyboard > palyer at heart. SO I have not really pushed synth setups. The one > thing your site does not say anything about is the "I know it must be > there" MIDI controler. I am assuming Keyboard, but I don't know. It > just seems it must be anoying not to be able to use the program/patch > selection section of the keyboard, or do you? > > I guess my question is what all performance controls do you use on > stage? I understand that the controler itself is probably not "open" > etc. but what kind of controls are used would be interesting, keys > only? patch change? are there sliders or rotary controls? > > It seems USB audio is less than the best thing to use. I have an old > audio card with game controler MIDI, It seems pretty solid. I have > never had it quit on me. My keyboard is a DX7 which means only minimal > extra controls besides the keys. Do you use any external sound > generation at all? Len, many thanks for those questions; it has been great to get all of that info down, it's all here: http://lsn.ponderworthy.com/doku.php/keys_control_and_connections -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music 805 SW Jewell Ave, Topeka KS 66606-1610 jeb at ponderworthy.com "Normal" is however we are right now! From fons at linuxaudio.org Wed Sep 17 20:05:01 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:05:01 +0000 Subject: [LAU] mplayer no go with snd-hdsp In-Reply-To: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> Message-ID: <20140917200501.GB9387@linuxaudio.org> On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 04:15:59AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > I've recently gotten my RME Multiface up and working quite > satisfactorally with current Linux kernels. I'm very happy, especially > as I had a long run of it not working for some reason I never teased > out. > > So, I find I can aplay and arecord, and I can use ecasound, and a few > other cli tools. > > But, I can't use mplayer. Am I the only one? Anyone else tried mplayer > on the Multiface? As others have already suggested: use Jack. For everything. I have this alias for viewing videos: alias vv='mplayer -ao jack -fs' which works everywhere. Tschuss, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From gerald.mwangi at gmx.de Wed Sep 17 20:29:53 2014 From: gerald.mwangi at gmx.de (Gerald Mwangi) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 22:29:53 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Looking for people in Heidelberg/Mannheim-Germany Message-ID: <5419EF41.1040204@gmx.de> Hi, The subject says it all. I'm wondering if there are some musicians living in the rhein-neckar area in Germany, who would be interested in my Band www.jimson-drift.de (also check https://www.jamendo.com/de/list/a62900/groove-venture ). We play a mix of rock/soul and Funk and are in the process of integrating Electronica elements in our songs (not yet in the current demos). Our Drummer decided to leave the Band by the end of the year and our Bassist will probably go next year due to their jobs. I'm looking for people who want to break with the old styles by mixing them together to something new, experimental but still mainstreamy enough to get the audience moving with the groove. I'm looking for people who would drop everything else, if we had the chance to go to the top (charts, big stadium, fun) without being bent to conformity. Who's in? Lg Gerald From brent at keycorner.org Wed Sep 17 20:56:19 2014 From: brent at keycorner.org (Brent Busby) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:56:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [LAU] mplayer no go with snd-hdsp In-Reply-To: <1409171155180.3514@freeshell.de> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <1409171155180.3514@freeshell.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Sep 2014, F. Silvain wrote: > I suggest the same as Giso. If you are learning music, you might want > to use other audio apps at the same time anyway. So go for the JACK > Audio Connection Kit. I've used it ever since I started with Linux. I > don't have an RME, but I have a multichannel audio interface. I have the Multiface II, and it's nearly impossible to address through raw Alsa without some deep kung-fu. Though Jack you should be able to see all of its i/o's and use it with MPlayer or whatever you want. -- + Brent A. Busby + "We've all heard that a million monkeys + Sr. UNIX Systems Admin + banging on a million typewriters will + University of Chicago + eventually reproduce the entire works of + James Franck Institute + Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, + Materials Research Ctr + we know this is not true." -Robert Wilensky From marc at hacklava.net Thu Sep 18 00:07:43 2014 From: marc at hacklava.net (Marc =?UTF-8?B?TGF2YWxsw6ll?=) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:07:43 -0400 Subject: [LAU] mplayer no go with snd-hdsp In-Reply-To: <20140917200501.GB9387@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <20140917200501.GB9387@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <20140917200743.56cabee2@telecino> On Wed, 17 Sep 2014 20:05:01 +0000, Fons Adriaensen wrote : > On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 04:15:59AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > > But, I can't use mplayer. Am I the only one? Anyone else tried > > mplayer on the Multiface? > > As others have already suggested: use Jack. For everything. > I have this alias for viewing videos: > > alias vv='mplayer -ao jack -fs' > > which works everywhere. To avoid passing arguments or use an alias, create a file "$HOME/.mplayer/config" that contains : ao=jack fs=yes -- Marc From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Thu Sep 18 01:22:57 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 21:22:57 -0400 Subject: [LAU] mplayer no go with snd-hdsp In-Reply-To: References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <1409171155180.3514@freeshell.de> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Brent Busby wrote: > On Wed, 17 Sep 2014, F. Silvain wrote: > > I suggest the same as Giso. If you are learning music, you might want to >> use other audio apps at the same time anyway. So go for the JACK Audio >> Connection Kit. I've used it ever since I started with Linux. I don't have >> an RME, but I have a multichannel audio interface. >> > > I have the Multiface II, and it's nearly impossible to address through raw > Alsa without some deep kung-fu. Though Jack you should be able to see all > of its i/o's and use it with MPlayer or whatever you want. The multichannel RME devices do not support being opened with less than full channel counts or with the wrong sample format. Any approach that ends up using plughw:CARDNAME should work just fine. For some, using such a device name will be deep kung-fu, for others not so much. And it may depend on the application how easy it is. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From idragosani at gmail.com Thu Sep 18 01:40:35 2014 From: idragosani at gmail.com (Brett McCoy) Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 21:40:35 -0400 Subject: [LAU] mplayer no go with snd-hdsp In-Reply-To: References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <1409171155180.3514@freeshell.de> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Brent Busby wrote: > On Wed, 17 Sep 2014, F. Silvain wrote: > > I suggest the same as Giso. If you are learning music, you might want to >> use other audio apps at the same time anyway. So go for the JACK Audio >> Connection Kit. I've used it ever since I started with Linux. I don't have >> an RME, but I have a multichannel audio interface. >> > > I have the Multiface II, and it's nearly impossible to address through raw > Alsa without some deep kung-fu. Though Jack you should be able to see all > of its i/o's and use it with MPlayer or whatever you want. I use a Multiface, too, and keep Jack going 100% of the time for the machine it is on (I route audio from other sources into it also, including another computer). Multiface isn't really intended for end-user consumer-y casual use, but is intended for multitrack studio & Multi I/O kinds of things. -- Brett W. McCoy -- http://www.brettwmccoy.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden; If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world." -- Jelaleddin Rumi -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brent at keycorner.org Thu Sep 18 05:19:41 2014 From: brent at keycorner.org (Brent Busby) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:19:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [LAU] mplayer no go with snd-hdsp In-Reply-To: References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <1409171155180.3514@freeshell.de> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Sep 2014, Paul Davis wrote: > The multichannel RME devices do not support being opened with less > than full channel counts or with the wrong sample format. Any approach > that ends up using plughw:CARDNAME should work just fine. For some, > using such a device name will be deep kung-fu, for others not so much. > And it may depend on the application how easy it is. The last part is the operative part here -- using a Multiface as a general purpose audio out will depend on all your apps all being able to handle a single device with 18 i/o's. Some programs will handle that better than others, and I've seen some fairly involved .asoundrc files posted on here in the past to try and get around that for people who really badly want it to be their general desktop audio device. (PulseAudio handles the situation particularly poorly.) It's probably best to let a motherboard sound chip do that and keep the Multiface only for recording. -- + Brent A. Busby + "We've all heard that a million monkeys + Sr. UNIX Systems Admin + banging on a million typewriters will + University of Chicago + eventually reproduce the entire works of + James Franck Institute + Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet, + Materials Research Ctr + we know this is not true." -Robert Wilensky From atte at youmail.dk Thu Sep 18 06:47:00 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 08:47:00 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> Message-ID: <541A7FE4.7080400@youmail.dk> On 09/01/2014 07:42 AM, David Christensen wrote: > linux-audio-user: > > I've been running a Debian Wheezy DAW (i386, Xfce, realtime kernel, > Audacity, Rosegarden, various synthesizers, etc.) for the past week or > two. It sort of worked. But, it's clearly not ready for taking on > stage for a performance. Say what? I've been running debian stable for ages (brief detours to arch and ubuntu), and I just love it for the stability. What I *don't* want is an update to break the system a day (or even weeks) before a gig. Yes, you might have to compile some stuff yourself, to get bleed on some software, but in my experience that boils down to about a handful of packages. YMMV -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From atte at youmail.dk Thu Sep 18 06:53:21 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 08:53:21 +0200 Subject: [LAU] OT: email clients In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <541A8161.9050609@youmail.dk> On 09/05/2014 02:47 AM, Kazakore wrote: > Evolution, Thunderbird and Alpine are the ones I've tried. I use icedove (=thunderbird) and I can live with that... BTW: Are you kazakore from the renoise forums? -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 18 07:16:53 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 09:16:53 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <541A7FE4.7080400@youmail.dk> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <541A7FE4.7080400@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <1411024613.31689.1.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-18 at 08:47 +0200, Atte wrote: > On 09/01/2014 07:42 AM, David Christensen wrote: > > linux-audio-user: > > > > I've been running a Debian Wheezy DAW (i386, Xfce, realtime kernel, > > Audacity, Rosegarden, various synthesizers, etc.) for the past week or > > two. It sort of worked. But, it's clearly not ready for taking on > > stage for a performance. > > Say what? > > I've been running debian stable for ages (brief detours to arch and > ubuntu), and I just love it for the stability. What I *don't* want is an > update to break the system a day (or even weeks) before a gig. Yes, you > might have to compile some stuff yourself, to get bleed on some > software, but in my experience that boils down to about a handful of > packages. > > YMMV I guess we all have a different kind of worldview regarding reliability. I remember that even a respected developer from this community and audio engineer once reported that he lost a few minutes of a concert. I'm aware that several people dislike me, especially if I write something like: "Linux is for hobby usage only". Privately I use Linux only for audio, for more than a decade. I never ever would use a computer (excepted of special stand alone devices) for professional work, or on stage. What ever OS you use, resp. assumed you are using Linux, what ever distro you're using, with or without updates, modern computers are not reliable and much of the Linux software is version 0.x, not version >= 1.x. JFTR Xfce is a good choice. I switched from Xfce to JWM. What I dislike with Xfce isn't audio related and Jwm is also very good. Tests with openbox I'm doing at the moment shows that openbox at least on my computer is buggy. I reported a few issues here, but in the meanwhile there were serious crashes. Xfce IMO is a very good choice. I use Qtractor instead of Rosegarden. I use rt kernels too, some versions caused issues on my machine, perhaps you should test different versions of rt kernels or test a full preempted non-rt kernel (the Ubuntu folks call it lowlatency kernel). Audacity is known to cause issues. It's important to know what you are using, when you say "etc.". Linux could be relatively good reliable, but you need to avoid usage of some software, e.g. plugins. Stay with Xfce, but test different applications. If a host (Rosegarden or Qtractor or Ardour or what ever) should run into issues, test the same host with using different plugins. By my experiences Ubuntu and Arch Linux don't cause that much issues as Debian does cause. You also should consider to multi-boot and test what distro does fit best to your needs. 2 Cents, Ralf From atte at youmail.dk Thu Sep 18 08:56:49 2014 From: atte at youmail.dk (Atte) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 10:56:49 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <1411024613.31689.1.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <541A7FE4.7080400@youmail.dk> <1411024613.31689.1.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <541A9E51.3020200@youmail.dk> On 09/18/2014 09:16 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > I never ever would use a computer > (excepted of special stand alone devices) for professional work, or on > stage. Which makes me wanna share an experience: Years ago I was hired to do some gigs as an added, second keyboard player. I was running linux (debian stable, but that doesn't matter) with all sounds from a homemade csound setup and three usb keyboards. My setup ran flawlessly, whereas the regular keyboard had to reboot his yamaha (motif something, I think) a few times, AFAIR even once during a gig. That much for "hardware" synths. BTW: I normally take my korg m50 on stage most of the time, when it's just regular keyboard playing. > Tests > with openbox I'm doing at the moment shows that openbox at least on my > computer is buggy. It's running smooth here... > It's > important to know what you are using, when you say "etc.". Linux could > be relatively good reliable, but you need to avoid usage of some > software, e.g. plugins. Extremely true! I prefer software developed by people with zero tolerance to bugs. Renoise (although being far from perfect) is one good example of that. I can't remember when I last had a crash in renoise, in fact not sure I ever did. Been running it since round 2009... -- Atte http://atte.dk http://modlys.dk From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 18 13:24:34 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:24:34 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <541A9E51.3020200@youmail.dk> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <541A7FE4.7080400@youmail.dk> <1411024613.31689.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <541A9E51.3020200@youmail.dk> Message-ID: <1411046674.31689.5.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-18 at 10:56 +0200, Atte wrote: > On 09/18/2014 09:16 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > It's important to know what you are using, when you say "etc.". > > Linux could be relatively good reliable, but you need to avoid > > usage of some software, e.g. plugins. > > Extremely true! > > I prefer software developed by people with zero tolerance to bugs. In my experiences Linux audio developer are quite alright regarding to this issue. They listen to the users and try to help them. I have much good experiences and just a few bad experiences, when reporting a problem. Even while my words against computers for music production often sound harsh, I'm using Linux for good reasons. When I experienced a bug while using Qtractor and I reported it to the dev mailing list, Rui usually fixed the issue within a few hours and sometimes much faster. _But_ that does mean you have to compile the software and build a package on your own, you won't find such a fix in the repositories of a distro very soon. I could add a list of developers who are as interested in bug reports and kind to fix issues as Rui does. I just mentioned him, because Qtractor is one of the most important apps for my workflow, anyway, several other developers are as kind and fast as he is. _Often_ developers are willing to help other developers, with projects that are not that important for them self, just remember the patches from Fons for Phasex. _But_ there are issues and you have to compile the software and build the package on your own, if you wont to get rid of it without waiting for the next release of your distro. There are distros that provide such fixes earlier than other distros. I'm an Arch Linux fan, it's a rolling release and provides AUR, a repository from trusted users, that even comes with "unsteady" package builds, that sometimes could be very helpful. _But_ every Linux user needs to test and select core components, such as the kernel and user space stuff, that works reliable for her/his workflow on her/his machine. No big deal when doing home recording, the software is for free! but for professional work it doesn't matter if you have to pay for the software/stand alone hardware, it does matter that you don't need to test what fits to your needs, you pay for something you need and that usually is reliable. I have to correct one statement I made. You're right. If a user spend some time to find out what is working for her/him and then doesn't upgrade the software, it will run without issues, as long as the hardware, mobo, soundcard, graphics, needs not to be replaced. Regards, Ralf From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 18 13:48:20 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 15:48:20 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <1411046674.31689.5.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <541A7FE4.7080400@youmail.dk> <1411024613.31689.1.camel@rocketmail.com> <541A9E51.3020200@youmail.dk> <1411046674.31689.5.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1411048100.31689.7.camel@rocketmail.com> > I have to correct one statement I made. You're right. If a user spend > some time to find out what is working for her/him and then doesn't > upgrade the software, it will run without issues, as long as the > hardware, mobo, soundcard, graphics, needs not to be replaced. While even analog stand alone devices suffer from a short lifespan of electronics evolution, the issue for modern computers is much more significant. I remember that a list member had to pay much money for a CEM chip to repair his Juno 106, since those chips aren't available anymore. _But_ professional stand alone gear usually ensures maintenance for a very long time. Computer hardware can't be seriously maintained, they change standards too often and you won't find replacement parts to repair you old computer if needed. Assumed your mobo breaks, would you find a new mobo that is able to use your Linux compatible sound card and graphics? Assumed you are able t get such a mobo, are you sure that this mobo will provide the same real-time audio reliability as your old, broken mobo did? From o_v_ofr at yahoo.fr Thu Sep 18 22:01:07 2014 From: o_v_ofr at yahoo.fr (OvO OvO) Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2014 23:01:07 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Sound Devices - USBPRE 2 - Status ? Message-ID: <1411077667.1177.YahooMailNeo@web172805.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> On 09/16/2014 03:17 PM, Paul Davis wrote: >>>On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 4:12 AM, Hans Wilmers > wrote: >>On 09/16/2014 09:55 AM, Hans Wilmers wrote: >>>The USBPre2 works fine with UAC2 on recent kernels. >>With Fedora 19, kernel 3.14.17, I get these samplerates: >32000/44100/48000/88200/96000/192000 >>>I have to moderate that a bit: >I can set up all sample rates as above, but the effective sample >rate as shown by qjackctl is max. 48000. >No error message is shown in case the effective sample rate is not >the chosen one. >>>JACK asks ALSA for the nearest sample rate available. It does not print >errors when they do not match. > >OK, I understand. >The max. samplerate we get through Alsa is 48000 then. > / Hans Hello. Can you try to record 30 second of anything higher than 48khz and check the file with Audacity or Mplayer ? - mplayer -identify file.wav - or whatever is your most loved application. By the way, the 48khz Max, are 16 bits or 24 bits ? You have the choise of this quantization between 16 or 24 bits ? The - almost - last word : What we can do from here...this card support UAC2 but refuse to announce itself correctly and Gnu/Linux/Alsa perfectly support UAC2 ..... Any solution ? Begging Sound Devices to update 10 lines of code in a new firmware ? Asking someone at Alsa-project to make a patch if possible ? Any clue anyone ? Best. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From czhenry at gmail.com Fri Sep 19 19:31:59 2014 From: czhenry at gmail.com (Charles Z Henry) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 14:31:59 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Debian DAW experiences In-Reply-To: <541A7FE4.7080400@youmail.dk> References: <54040759.2060308@holgerdanske.com> <541A7FE4.7080400@youmail.dk> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 18, 2014 at 1:47 AM, Atte wrote: > On 09/01/2014 07:42 AM, David Christensen wrote: >> linux-audio-user: >> >> I've been running a Debian Wheezy DAW (i386, Xfce, realtime kernel, >> Audacity, Rosegarden, various synthesizers, etc.) for the past week or >> two. It sort of worked. But, it's clearly not ready for taking on >> stage for a performance. > > Say what? > > I've been running debian stable for ages (brief detours to arch and > ubuntu), and I just love it for the stability. What I *don't* want is an > update to break the system a day (or even weeks) before a gig. Yes, you > might have to compile some stuff yourself, to get bleed on some > software, but in my experience that boils down to about a handful of > packages. > > YMMV > > -- > Atte That's exactly what my mileage does. If you're working with hardware that's 2+ years old, you can install a fine, lean system with debian stable and build the bleeding edge stuff you need. I've not tried arch--at the moment, I installed ubuntu on a new laptop, since the new-ness of the hardware called for newer OS software than I could get from debian stable. After a while, I'll discontinue my ubuntu installation, inventory the important updates and proprietary software I need and rebuild the system with debian. If you're building a DAW and running, say openbox/xfce... there's about 99% of system updates you don't care about. Just get a good set of consistent packages installed and wait until you reach some specific bug or limitation that you need to fix. Of course, I don't speak for everyone--depending on what kind of development work you do, bleeding edge OS updates may be necessary. Chuck From jonetsu at teksavvy.com Fri Sep 19 23:40:01 2014 From: jonetsu at teksavvy.com (jonetsu at teksavvy.com) Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 19:40:01 -0400 Subject: [LAU] sfArk for Linux - git repo access Message-ID: <20140919194001.05e37250@mistral> Hello, I would like to use some .sfArk files. To this effect I have found the following for Ubuntu systemes (eg. Linux Mint) which seems reasonable, but the git repo needs a username and password, which are not supplied. What could they be ? http://blogs.fsfe.org/samtuke/?p=589 Thanks. From brummer- at web.de Sat Sep 20 03:11:02 2014 From: brummer- at web.de (hermann meyer) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 05:11:02 +0200 Subject: [LAU] sfArk for Linux - git repo access In-Reply-To: <20140919194001.05e37250@mistral> References: <20140919194001.05e37250@mistral> Message-ID: <541CF046.7070907@web.de> Am 20.09.2014 01:40, schrieb jonetsu at teksavvy.com: > Hello, > > I would like to use some .sfArk files. To this effect I have found > the following for Ubuntu systemes (eg. Linux Mint) which seems > reasonable, but the git repo needs a username and password, which are > not supplied. What could they be ? > > http://blogs.fsfe.org/samtuke/?p=589 > > Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > The git clone address is wrong. Just use git clone https://github.com/raboof/sfArkLib.git instead git clone https://github.com/raboof/sfArkLib.github From jonetsu at teksavvy.com Sat Sep 20 14:51:54 2014 From: jonetsu at teksavvy.com (jonetsu at teksavvy.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 10:51:54 -0400 Subject: [LAU] sfArk for Linux - git repo access In-Reply-To: <541CF046.7070907@web.de> References: <20140919194001.05e37250@mistral> <541CF046.7070907@web.de> Message-ID: <20140920105154.3e9d4cf2@mistral> On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 05:11:02 +0200, hermann meyer wrote : > The git clone address is wrong. > Just use > git clone https://github.com/raboof/sfArkLib.git OK, this works fine for both lib and sfArk utility. There's an error in processing a sfArk file, though. The problem is even more because these soundfounts seems very, very nice ! The soundfounts are from The Jazz Page (click download link) at: http://www.thejazzpage.de/index1.html Is this sfarkxtc utility the only way to go to be able to use these files with Qsynth ? Is there any other way ? A processing run looks like: % sfarkxtc aCoUsTiCbAsS.sfArk aCoUsTiCbAsS.sf2 ======================================================================== sfarkxtc 3.0-SNAPSHOT (using sfArkLib version: 300) copyright (c) 1998-2002 melodymachine.com, distributed under the GNU GPL ======================================================================== Uncompressing aCoUsTiCbAsS.sfArk to aCoUsTiCbAsS.sf2... *** ERROR - Invalid length for .license.txt file (apparently -7976547325793271497 bytes) - This file appears to be corrupted. cpu time taken 0 ms Result: Invalid compressed data (file is corrupt) errorcode 7 *** FAILED *** From jonetsu at teksavvy.com Sun Sep 21 01:45:04 2014 From: jonetsu at teksavvy.com (jonetsu at teksavvy.com) Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 21:45:04 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Wavedrum Message-ID: <20140920214504.5e12fbe4@mistral> I offcially declare that the makers of the Wavedrum had vision. Incredible fun. I route in mono through a static Radial direct box though. That's how I get reasonable sound level control. Used to have problems before that when routing it directly into the 10101LT card. From pedro.lopez.cabanillas at gmail.com Sun Sep 21 12:24:07 2014 From: pedro.lopez.cabanillas at gmail.com (Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 14:24:07 +0200 Subject: [LAU] sfArk for Linux - git repo access In-Reply-To: <20140920105154.3e9d4cf2@mistral> References: <20140919194001.05e37250@mistral> <541CF046.7070907@web.de> <20140920105154.3e9d4cf2@mistral> Message-ID: <31363979.OKhM32ddTe@boccanegra.localdomain> On Saturday 20 September 2014 10:51:54 jonetsu at teksavvy.com wrote: > On Sat, 20 Sep 2014 05:11:02 +0200, > > hermann meyer wrote : > > The git clone address is wrong. > > Just use > > git clone https://github.com/raboof/sfArkLib.git > > OK, this works fine for both lib and sfArk utility. > > There's an error in processing a sfArk file, though. The problem is > even more because these soundfounts seems very, very nice ! > > The soundfounts are from The Jazz Page (click download link) at: > > http://www.thejazzpage.de/index1.html > > Is this sfarkxtc utility the only way to go to be able to use these > files with Qsynth ? Is there any other way ? > > > > A processing run looks like: > > % sfarkxtc aCoUsTiCbAsS.sfArk aCoUsTiCbAsS.sf2 > > ======================================================================== > sfarkxtc 3.0-SNAPSHOT (using sfArkLib version: 300) > copyright (c) 1998-2002 melodymachine.com, distributed under the GNU > GPL > ======================================================================== > > Uncompressing aCoUsTiCbAsS.sfArk to aCoUsTiCbAsS.sf2... > > *** ERROR - Invalid length for .license.txt file (apparently > -7976547325793271497 bytes) - This file appears to be corrupted. > cpu time taken 0 ms > > Result: Invalid compressed data (file is corrupt) errorcode 7 *** > FAILED *** I can confirm this behaviour when the program is compiled for 64 bits, but seems to work for 32 bit. Looks like a bug in the program, which has not been properly ported from MS VC++ to GCC/G++. Regards, Pedro From edogawa at aon.at Sun Sep 21 12:40:22 2014 From: edogawa at aon.at (Edgar Aichinger) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 14:40:22 +0200 Subject: [LAU] sfArk for Linux - git repo access In-Reply-To: <31363979.OKhM32ddTe@boccanegra.localdomain> References: <20140919194001.05e37250@mistral> <20140920105154.3e9d4cf2@mistral> <31363979.OKhM32ddTe@boccanegra.localdomain> Message-ID: <7392900.5fhqG8rAdR@edhp> Am Sonntag, 21. September 2014, 14:24:07 schrieb Pedro Lopez-Cabanillas: > > I can confirm this behaviour when the program is compiled for 64 bits, but > seems to work for 32 bit. Looks like a bug in the program, which has not been > properly ported from MS VC++ to GCC/G++. I can confirm that too for 64bit, but FWIW running this http://melodymachine.com/sfark.htm in wine got the soundfonts extracted, just to let you know in case running non-oss windows programs is an option... Edgar > > Regards, > Pedro > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user From jonetsu at teksavvy.com Sun Sep 21 13:26:13 2014 From: jonetsu at teksavvy.com (jonetsu at teksavvy.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 09:26:13 -0400 Subject: [LAU] sfArk for Linux - git repo access In-Reply-To: <7392900.5fhqG8rAdR@edhp> References: <20140919194001.05e37250@mistral> <20140920105154.3e9d4cf2@mistral> <31363979.OKhM32ddTe@boccanegra.localdomain> <7392900.5fhqG8rAdR@edhp> Message-ID: <20140921092613.430626ad@mistral> Le dimanche, 21 Sep 2014 14:40:22 +0200, Edgar Aichinger a ?crit : > Am Sonntag, 21. September 2014, 14:24:07 schrieb Pedro > Lopez-Cabanillas: > > > > I can confirm this behaviour when the program is compiled for 64 > > bits, but seems to work for 32 bit. Looks like a bug in the > > program, which has not been properly ported from MS VC++ to GCC/G++. > > I can confirm that too for 64bit, but FWIW running this > http://melodymachine.com/sfark.htm in wine got the soundfonts > extracted, just to let you know in case running non-oss windows > programs is an option... Many thanks for the replies ! I haven't tried the 32-bit way yet, so I can do that using a 32-bit Mint VM. I just tried now by coincidence the Windows version from melodymachine using wine, and although it installs OK (I presume, even though it is in C:\Program Files where ever that really is in Linux !), and although it is possible to use the GUI to navigate to a soundfile (way out there somewhere else on the Linux machine) and double-click it, the program will report 'file not found'. I'm surely missing something fundamental about how wine/Windows apps works in Linux. Cheers. From jonetsu at teksavvy.com Sun Sep 21 13:45:25 2014 From: jonetsu at teksavvy.com (jonetsu at teksavvy.com) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 09:45:25 -0400 Subject: [LAU] A tune to share Message-ID: <20140921094525.3f8c81ee@mistral> Hello all, I would like to share this that I made. Any comments welcomed ! About the music, the recording, etc... Although on youtube, there's no video, only audio: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqiJT17m1Xs Recorded using Ardour, mixed using Jamin. Linux standard soundfounts for congas, Yamaha grand and warm pad, using Qsynth. 2 Takamine acoustic guitars. Acoustic bass guitar. Soundfount congas played using the rubber pads of an Axiom 25 keyboard. Audio card is 1010LT, mic was M-Audio Pulsar. Freeverb on acoustic guitars, Echo Delay on solo guitar. Multiband EQ on all acoustic instruments. Cheers. From tito.01beta at gmail.com Sun Sep 21 17:42:03 2014 From: tito.01beta at gmail.com (Tito Latini) Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2014 19:42:03 +0200 Subject: [LAU] sfArk for Linux - git repo access In-Reply-To: <20140921092613.430626ad@mistral> References: <20140919194001.05e37250@mistral> <20140920105154.3e9d4cf2@mistral> <31363979.OKhM32ddTe@boccanegra.localdomain> <7392900.5fhqG8rAdR@edhp> <20140921092613.430626ad@mistral> Message-ID: <20140921174203.GA1841@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> On Sun, Sep 21, 2014 at 09:26:13AM -0400, jonetsu at teksavvy.com wrote: > Le dimanche, 21 Sep 2014 14:40:22 +0200, > Edgar Aichinger a ?crit : > > > Am Sonntag, 21. September 2014, 14:24:07 schrieb Pedro > > Lopez-Cabanillas: > > > > > > I can confirm this behaviour when the program is compiled for 64 > > > bits, but seems to work for 32 bit. Looks like a bug in the > > > program, which has not been properly ported from MS VC++ to GCC/G++. > > > > I can confirm that too for 64bit, but FWIW running this > > http://melodymachine.com/sfark.htm in wine got the soundfonts > > extracted, just to let you know in case running non-oss windows > > programs is an option... > > Many thanks for the replies ! I haven't tried the 32-bit way yet, so I > can do that using a 32-bit Mint VM. > > I just tried now by coincidence the Windows version from melodymachine > using wine, and although it installs OK (I presume, even though it is > in C:\Program Files where ever that really is in Linux !), and although > it is possible to use the GUI to navigate to a soundfile (way out there > somewhere else on the Linux machine) and double-click it, the program > will report 'file not found'. I'm surely missing something fundamental > about how wine/Windows apps works in Linux. The follow patch fixes the problem: diff -ur sfArkLib~/sfklCoding.cpp sfArkLib/sfklCoding.cpp --- sfArkLib~/sfklCoding.cpp 2013-12-19 00:07:11.000000000 +0100 +++ sfArkLib/sfklCoding.cpp 2014-09-21 19:29:35.925453244 +0200 @@ -633,7 +633,7 @@ if (n <= 0 || n > ZBUF_SIZE) // Check for valid block length { - sprintf(MsgTxt, "ERROR - Invalid length for %s file (apparently %ld bytes) %s", FileExt, n, CorruptedMsg); + sprintf(MsgTxt, "ERROR - Invalid length for %s file (apparently %d bytes) %s", FileExt, n, CorruptedMsg); msg(MsgTxt, MSG_PopUp); GlobalErrorFlag = SFARKLIB_ERR_CORRUPT; return false; @@ -833,7 +833,7 @@ return EndProcess(GlobalErrorFlag); } - sprintf(MsgTxt, "Created %s (%ld kb) successfully.", ReqOutFileName, Blk.TotBytesWritten/1024); + sprintf(MsgTxt, "Created %s (%d kb) successfully.", ReqOutFileName, Blk.TotBytesWritten/1024); msg(MsgTxt, 0); return EndProcess(GlobalErrorFlag); diff -ur sfArkLib~/sfklZip.cpp sfArkLib/sfklZip.cpp --- sfArkLib~/sfklZip.cpp 2013-12-19 00:07:11.000000000 +0100 +++ sfArkLib/sfklZip.cpp 2014-09-21 19:28:37.014193859 +0200 @@ -26,7 +26,7 @@ ULONG UnMemcomp(const BYTE *InBuf, int InBytes, BYTE *OutBuf, int OutBufLen) { // Uncompress buffer using ZLIBs uncompress function... - ULONG OutBytes = OutBufLen; + unsigned long OutBytes = OutBufLen; int Result = uncompress(OutBuf, &OutBytes, InBuf, InBytes); if (Result != Z_OK) // uncompress failed? { diff -ur sfArkLib~/wcc.h sfArkLib/wcc.h --- sfArkLib~/wcc.h 2013-12-19 00:07:11.000000000 +0100 +++ sfArkLib/wcc.h 2014-09-21 19:28:37.015193847 +0200 @@ -67,13 +67,13 @@ // ----- typdefs ----- typedef unsigned short USHORT; typedef unsigned char BYTE; -typedef unsigned long ULONG; +typedef unsigned int ULONG; //typedef int bool; typedef short AWORD; // Audio word (i.e., 16-bit audio) typedef unsigned short UAWORD; -typedef long LAWORD; // "long" audio word i.e. 32 bits -typedef unsigned long ULAWORD; +typedef int LAWORD; // "long" audio word i.e. 32 bits +typedef unsigned int ULAWORD; // Types used by Bit I/O (BIO) routines... typedef USHORT BIOWORD; From edogawa at aon.at Mon Sep 22 07:14:16 2014 From: edogawa at aon.at (Edgar Aichinger) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 09:14:16 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1432355.BjQYpgBTzT@edhp> Am Sonntag, 14. September 2014, 19:28:24 schrieb Brett McCoy: > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:21 PM, Bob van der Poel wrote: > > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Arnold Krille > > wrote: > > > >> On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:39:45 -0700 Bob van der Poel > >> wrote: > >> > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Ralf Mardorf > >> > wrote: > >> > > There only is one thing we can share all over the world, recorded in > >> > > different decades: analog tapes > >> > > >> > ?Well, not quite. Sheet music is quite playable after many centuries. > >> > And no special machines are needed :)? > >> > >> I think the people and orchestras hunting down historic instruments to > >> recreate the original setting for certain pieces will disagree with you > >> on this one. > >> > > > > ?Well, I did say this with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek while > > transcribing some Haydn. But, despite t?he fact that my little group will > > be playing it with totally different instruments, etc. ... I'm sure that > > Papa would recognize his tune. My point is that a piece of paper is very > > "archival" ... a piece of tape or a shiny plastic disk in 100 or 200 years? > > > > Case in point... some lute tablature from the late 1500s... > > http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/home/index.php?DRIS_ID=MS410_003 > > I for one can read that, even play sightreading right away from such a tablature, and transcribing it to a digital format (abctab or Wayne Cripps' lutetab for example) would typically take a couple of hours per piece, and give the possibility to create a midi file or even some score representation by the according interpreter or processing cli app. Anyway, AFAIK museums, collections or archives of manuscripts have to put substantial amounts of work in conserving manuscripts, as they usually start to suffer from "Tintenfra?" (ink corrosion) after a few centuries. But, isn't this getting slightly OT ? Edgar From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Sep 22 12:23:56 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 14:23:56 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Common DAW session save / import In-Reply-To: <1432355.BjQYpgBTzT@edhp> References: <385D4A28-FC57-4325-8B04-A6EA5AE93047@gmail.com> <1432355.BjQYpgBTzT@edhp> Message-ID: <1411388636.3529.2.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-22 at 09:14 +0200, Edgar Aichinger wrote: > Am Sonntag, 14. September 2014, 19:28:24 schrieb Brett McCoy: > > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 7:21 PM, Bob van der Poel > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Arnold Krille > > > > wrote: > > > > > >> On Sun, 14 Sep 2014 11:39:45 -0700 Bob van der Poel > > > >> wrote: > > >> > On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Ralf Mardorf > > >> > wrote: > > >> > > There only is one thing we can share all over the world, > recorded in > > >> > > different decades: analog tapes > > >> > > > >> > ?Well, not quite. Sheet music is quite playable after many > centuries. > > >> > And no special machines are needed :)? > > >> > > >> I think the people and orchestras hunting down historic > instruments to > > >> recreate the original setting for certain pieces will disagree > with you > > >> on this one. > > >> > > > > > > ?Well, I did say this with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek > while > > > transcribing some Haydn. But, despite t?he fact that my little > group will > > > be playing it with totally different instruments, etc. ... I'm > sure that > > > Papa would recognize his tune. My point is that a piece of paper > is very > > > "archival" ... a piece of tape or a shiny plastic disk in 100 or > 200 years? > > > > > > > Case in point... some lute tablature from the late 1500s... > > > > http://digitalcollections.tcd.ie/home/index.php?DRIS_ID=MS410_003 > > > > > I for one can read that, even play sightreading right away from such a > tablature, and transcribing it to a digital format (abctab or Wayne > Cripps' lutetab for example) would typically take a couple of hours > per piece, and give the possibility to create a midi file or even some > score representation by the according interpreter or processing cli > app. > > Anyway, AFAIK museums, collections or archives of manuscripts have to > put substantial amounts of work in conserving manuscripts, as they > usually start to suffer from "Tintenfra?" (ink corrosion) after a few > centuries. > > But, isn't this getting slightly OT ? Modern cheap paper moulders very fast and modern cheap pencil's colourants fade very soon, but it's possible to use special papers and pencils, that can last very long. Anyway, sheet music isn't a recording. Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) played by Stevie Ray Vaughan doesn't render the emotional playing of Jimi Hendrix, just a recording can do that. Two tenors have tow different voices, Enrico Caruso is Enrico Caruso. It's not OT. The recording format is important. Analog recordings don't need to be "translated", machinery is easy to build, even if the machinery, the players technology, once is forgotten. Digital recordings need to be "translated" by a special soft and hardware, that is not that clearly to realise, once the technology is forgotten. You can listen to a record using a sewing needle, a peace of paper and a pottery wheel. Than it's easy to design a new record player, providing good sound quality. It becomes hard to do that for digital format recording machinery. From rncbc at rncbc.org Mon Sep 22 17:17:25 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 18:17:25 +0100 Subject: [LAU] [ANN] Qtractor 0.6.3 - The Armed Hadron beta release! Message-ID: <542059A5.4030907@rncbc.org> Ah, the equinox... Twice a year a cherished planetary alignment checks in on schedule, once again. The little rock gets another round from its warmy solar furnax, from which were forged. The pale blue dot gets yet another round and to no surprise, another tinier dot gets here around: Qtractor 0.6.3 (armed hadron beta) is now released! Release highlights: * Revamped mixer (un)dockable panels (NEW) * Plugin preset selection sub-menu (NEW) * LV2 Time position/transport event support (NEW) * Constrained plugin multi-instantiation (FIX) * Automation curve node resolution (FIX) Qtractor is an audio/MIDI multi-track sequencer application written in C++ with the Qt4 framework. Target platform is Linux, where the Jack Audio Connection Kit (JACK) for audio and the Advanced Linux Sound Architecture (ALSA) for MIDI are the main infrastructures to evolve as a fairly-featured Linux desktop audio workstation GUI, specially dedicated to the personal home-studio. nb. Despite the old Qt4 stance, but still recommended, Qtractor does build, runs and does it all on Qt5 for quite some time now. However, the former recommendation prevails as the despicable LV2 plugin GUI X11/embedding support through libSUIL just does NOT work on modern Qt5. Website: http://qtractor.sourceforge.net Project page: http://sourceforge.net/projects/qtractor Downloads: http://sourceforge.net/projects/qtractor/files - source tarball: http://download.sourceforge.net/qtractor/qtractor-0.6.3.tar.gz - source package (openSUSE 13.1): http://download.sourceforge.net/qtractor/qtractor-0.6.3-13.rncbc.suse131.src.rpm - binary packages (openSUSE 13.1): http://download.sourceforge.net/qtractor/qtractor-0.6.3-13.rncbc.suse131.i586.rpm http://download.sourceforge.net/qtractor/qtractor-0.6.3-13.rncbc.suse131.x86_84.rpm - quick start guide & user manual (still outdated, see wiki): http://download.sourceforge.net/qtractor/qtractor-0.5.x-user-manual.pdf - wiki (help wanted!): http://sourceforge.net/p/qtractor/wiki/ Weblog (upstream support): http://www.rncbc.org License: Qtractor is free, open-source software, distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL) version 2 or later. Change-log: - Make the mouse-wheel to scroll the plugin list views, when not hovering a direct-access parameter slider. - Mixer widget gets (un)dockable Inputs and Outputs panels, also with their respective title captions. - Plugin instantiation is now constrained as much to prevent any audio channel output overriding. - Existing plugin presets may now be selected right(-click) from plugin list context-menu (ticket by Harry van Haaren, thanks). - So-called "painting" over multiple selected event values, while on the MIDI clip editor view pane below the main piano-roll (eg. note velocities, controller values, etc.) is now split into two similar painting modes, whether the sub-menu Edit/Select Mode/Edit Draw is set on (free-hand) or off (linear). - Drag-and-copy of plug-in instances across tracks or buses (ie. cloning) now also copies the direct access parameter setting (ticket by Holger Marzen, thanks). - File/Save As... now prompts and suggests an incremental backup name for existing sessions files. - Zooming in/out increment is now augmented by whether shift /ctrl keyboard modifiers are set (on a ticket request by Holger Marzen, thanks). - LV2 Time position event messages for plugin atom ports that support it is now being implemented. - Attempt to break extremely long audio file peak generation on session close or program exit (as reported by EternalX, thanks again). - MIDI Controllers Hook and Invert properties are now properly saved for tracks (after bug report by Nicola Pandini, thanks). - A segmentation fault when closing with VST plugins open has been hopefully fixed (after a patch by EternalX, thanks). - Messages standard output capture has been slightly improved as for non-blocking i/o, whenever available. - Automation curve node editing has been slightly improved in regard to time positioning and resolution. See also: http://www.rncbc.org/drupal/node/818 Enjoy && have fun. -- rncbc aka. Rui Nuno Capela From ricardo.crudo at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 16:27:55 2014 From: ricardo.crudo at gmail.com (Ricardo Crudo) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 13:27:55 -0300 Subject: [LAU] [LAD] [ANN] Super Announcement - All MOD software for your PC In-Reply-To: <5183ED3A-B45F-4F4C-A920-3AC41D224C70@portalmod.com.br> References: <5183ED3A-B45F-4F4C-A920-3AC41D224C70@portalmod.com.br> Message-ID: Hello LAU and LAD, We just register an IRC channel on freenode to discuss about MOD software: #portalmod There also a development mail list, like LAD. You can subscribe here: http://portalmod.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/developers Will be a pleasure see all of you there, not just to follow the project, but to be part of it. We have many ideas about MOD development, hear your opinions would be very important to us. Each step forward we remind how essential the community is for us, because of this we do a huge effort to continue respecting the open source development. Best Regards, Crudo On 17 September 2014 12:45, Gianfranco Ceccolini < gianfranco at portalmod.com.br> wrote: > Hello Linux Audio Users and Developers > > In less than an our the MOD Duo Kickstarter campaign will go live and so > it is with great pleasure that the MOD Team makes the announcement of the > desktop versions for our entire software suite. > > Some of this software has already been announced in the past but, as part > of our Kickstarter campaign, we put the necessary effort to have them > running in a regular Linux environment and not just inside the MOD. All > instructions in Github were also updated in order to yield working elements > when followed. > > Most of this software has been under development for almost two years and > their history is related to the development of the MOD itself. Being so, > they carry some differences in workflow when compared to other LV2 programs > and our current effort is being put on correcting those differences. > > > The softwares are: > > > MOD Client - run your LV2 plugins using the MOD interface. > > https://github.com/portalmod/mod-client > > > ?????????????????????????????????????????? > > MOD SDK - plugin interface creator > > Use this program to create the HTML interface required by the MOD Client. > If you don?t create an interface the plugins still work, but their icons > will be a tuna fish can with just the ON/OFF button. When you click on the > gear symbol on the upper right side of the icon you have access to the > Plugin Settings Screen in which all parameters are visible. > > The MOD SDK is Python based and can be installed by typing ?pip install > modsdk? > > As the MOD Client, it runs on your browser and requires a mod-workspace > folder (or link) in which you place your LV2 bundles. > > Just run ?modsdk" in your terminal and point your browser to localhost:9000 > > There is also post on our blog about the SDK: > http://portalmod.com/blog/2014/09/the-mod-sdk > > ?????????????????????????????????????????? > > LV2BM - tool for analyzing and benchmarking LV2 plugins > > Allows to select which URIs to test > > Uses minimum, maximum and default control values to run the plugins > > Uses several controls combinations in the full test mode > > The output shows the JACK load percent > > > ?????????????????????????????????????????? > > Plugins > > > - CAPS-LV2 > LV2 port of the CAPS suite of LADSPA plugins. > > - TAP-LV2 - > LV2 port of the TAP suite of LADSPA plugins. > > - Pitch shifters - http://github.com/portalmod/mod-pitchshifter > Capo - up to 7 semitones up pitch shifting > SuperCapo - up to 24 semitones up pitch shifting > Drop - up to 12 semitones down pitch shifting > SuperWhammy - continuous pitch shifting from -12 to 24 > semitones > Harmonizer - scale interval generator > > - Utilities - https://github.com/portalmod/mod-utilities > Switchbox - A/B box for audio signal routing > SwitchTrigger - 4 excluding channel selector > ToggleSwitch - 4 non-excluding channel selector > Gain (mono and stereo) > Filters (LP, HP and BP) - 1st, 2nd and 3rd order > Two way mono crossover - 1st, 2nd and 3rd order > Three way mono crossover - 1st, 2nd and 3rd order > > - Distortions - mathematical simulations of classic distortion > circuits > BigMuff > DS-1 > Muff Fuzz > > - SopoperLooper > LV2 simplified port of the SooperLooper. > > All plugins from our repository have the HTML MOD GUI included. > > In our Github repository - www.github.com/portalmod - we also have > plugins that were forked from the original repositories. > > One of our aims is to trigger a dialogue with the developers, deprecate > our forks and add the MOD interface to the original plugins but that > depends on the developers and creators and shall be discussed in a > one-to-one basis. > > Wish you all the best > > Kind regards > > Gianfranco > The MOD Team > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-dev mailing list > Linux-audio-dev at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From murks at tuxfamily.org Tue Sep 23 18:21:30 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 20:21:30 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback Message-ID: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Hi there, I encountered a nice piano learning video including hands and animated keys, but since it is playing at original speed it is way to fast for me to learn that song. In case anyone is interested, it's this video and I think it's rather nicely done (don't hate me for the music :P): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej6MF5KjuOc I found one way which sort of works (after settings LADSPA_PATH) but it sounds quite horrible. Is there a better way to do this? http://markplusplus.wordpress.com/2006/10/01/pitch-correct-play-speed-with-mplayer/ Is there a stretchplayer for video? Regards, Philipp From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Sep 23 18:37:16 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 20:37:16 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <1411497436.838.3.camel@rocketmail.com> On Tue, 2014-09-23 at 20:21 +0200, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > I encountered a nice piano learning video including hands and animated > keys Cool request! I didn't care about, resp. didn't clicked your links, but I'm aware that there are such videos available since years. A friend, a finished masterclass guy showed me those videos, but I'm even not a piano beginner, I'm a guitarist ;). I never tried to learn from those videos. :) Ralf PS: It depends on what you want to learn, but for around 3,- ? there are amazing iThingy apps available. Books for around 80,- ? aren't that flexible and books won't produce audible music output. From edogawa at aon.at Tue Sep 23 18:39:03 2014 From: edogawa at aon.at (Edgar Aichinger) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 20:39:03 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <2212805.unkC3ODKTB@edhp> Am Dienstag, 23. September 2014, 20:21:30 schrieb Philipp ?berbacher: > Hi there, > > I encountered a nice piano learning video including hands and animated > keys, but since it is playing at original speed it is way to fast for > me to learn that song. In case anyone is interested, it's this video > and I think it's rather nicely done (don't hate me for the music :P): > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej6MF5KjuOc > > I found one way which sort of works (after settings LADSPA_PATH) but it > sounds quite horrible. Is there a better way to do this? > http://markplusplus.wordpress.com/2006/10/01/pitch-correct-play-speed-with-mplayer/ > > Is there a stretchplayer for video? VLC can do that, there's no nice GUI element for speed control, but a submenu in "playback" menu... don't expect high quality either. Edgar > > Regards, > Philipp > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user From bob at mellowood.ca Tue Sep 23 18:47:59 2014 From: bob at mellowood.ca (Bob van der Poel) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 11:47:59 -0700 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > Hi there, > > I encountered a nice piano learning video including hands and animated > keys, but since it is playing at original speed it is way to fast for > me to learn that song. In case anyone is interested, it's this video > and I think it's rather nicely done (don't hate me for the music :P): > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej6MF5KjuOc > > I found one way which sort of works (after settings LADSPA_PATH) but it > sounds quite horrible. Is there a better way to do this? > > http://markplusplus.wordpress.com/2006/10/01/pitch-correct-play-speed-with-mplayer/ > > Is there a stretchplayer for video? > ?Don't know about slowing this down ... But, that is a really hard way to learn something. Much easier to learn to read music and learn the basics of piano playing!? -- **** Listen to my FREE CD at http://www.mellowood.ca/music/cedars **** Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA ** EMAIL: bob at mellowood.ca WWW: http://www.mellowood.ca -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Sep 23 18:57:52 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 20:57:52 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <1411498672.838.5.camel@rocketmail.com> PS: Perhaps you should subscribe to receive Tracktion advertisements. I directly filter them to my junk folder, but I read them, to follow the development. A few days ago I received an advertisement about an included software for pitch correction editing, an award winner rival to the Antares thingy. We never know, perhaps in a few month, it would provide video handling too. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Sep 23 19:12:27 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 21:12:27 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <1411499547.838.7.camel@rocketmail.com> On Tue, 2014-09-23 at 11:47 -0700, Bob van der Poel wrote: > Much easier to learn to read music and learn the basics of piano > playing!? It won't show you what a video with animations does show you, when it is done by masterclass folks. And this is not only good for masterclass people who share their knowledge with other folks on the same level, it's also good for beginners with artistical gifts, who don't think in a way to learn in "school style" (left vs right cerebral hemisphere ... especially for people who can't read music, e.g. regarding to perception disorder, such as dyslexia, when the notes become ants running around the sheet). And as already pointed out, books or paying a teacher is muuuuuch more expensive than a video or iThingy app. From murks at tuxfamily.org Tue Sep 23 20:29:27 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 22:29:27 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: <2212805.unkC3ODKTB@edhp> References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <2212805.unkC3ODKTB@edhp> Message-ID: <20140923222927.7a6b18ee@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 20:39:03 +0200 Edgar Aichinger wrote: > Am Dienstag, 23. September 2014, 20:21:30 schrieb Philipp ?berbacher: > > Hi there, > > > > I encountered a nice piano learning video including hands and > > animated keys, but since it is playing at original speed it is way > > to fast for me to learn that song. In case anyone is interested, > > it's this video and I think it's rather nicely done (don't hate me > > for the music :P): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej6MF5KjuOc > > > > I found one way which sort of works (after settings LADSPA_PATH) > > but it sounds quite horrible. Is there a better way to do this? > > http://markplusplus.wordpress.com/2006/10/01/pitch-correct-play-speed-with-mplayer/ > > > > Is there a stretchplayer for video? > > VLC can do that, there's no nice GUI element for speed control, but a > submenu in "playback" menu... don't expect high quality either. > > Edgar Hi Edgar, both mplayer and VLC provide such controls, it allows to slow down or speed up the video but the audio is not pitch corrected as far as I can tell. A line like this works but requires to set the pitch beforehand and also sounds rather bad. mplayer -speed 0.5 -af ladspa=tap_pitch:tap_pitch:0:100:-90:0 Careless\ Whisper\,\ George\ Michael\,\ piano-Ej6MF5KjuOc.mp4 Regards, Philipp From tito.01beta at gmail.com Tue Sep 23 21:41:26 2014 From: tito.01beta at gmail.com (Tito Latini) Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 23:41:26 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140923214126.GA1710@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 08:21:30PM +0200, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > Hi there, > > I encountered a nice piano learning video including hands and animated > keys, but since it is playing at original speed it is way to fast for > me to learn that song. In case anyone is interested, it's this video > and I think it's rather nicely done (don't hate me for the music :P): > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej6MF5KjuOc > > I found one way which sort of works (after settings LADSPA_PATH) but it > sounds quite horrible. Is there a better way to do this? > http://markplusplus.wordpress.com/2006/10/01/pitch-correct-play-speed-with-mplayer/ > > Is there a stretchplayer for video? The audio filter `scaletempo' should be acceptable for your purpose: mplayer -af scaletempo -speed 0.5 video... it's a little better: mplayer -af scaletempo=stride=50:overlap=.25:search=20 -speed 0.5 video... From gerhard.zintel at web.de Tue Sep 23 22:36:55 2014 From: gerhard.zintel at web.de (Gerhard Zintel) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 00:36:55 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <201409240036.55570.gerhard.zintel@web.de> On Tuesday 23 September 2014, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > Hi there, > > I encountered a nice piano learning video including hands and animated > keys, but since it is playing at original speed it is way to fast for > me to learn that song. In case anyone is interested, it's this video > and I think it's rather nicely done (don't hate me for the music :P): > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej6MF5KjuOc There is a link to the Midi file. You can play a Midi file at any speed and look at the piano roll. Gerhard From deva at aasimon.org Wed Sep 24 07:53:25 2014 From: deva at aasimon.org (Bent Bisballe Nyeng) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 09:53:25 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [LAA] Announcing LibreMusicProduction.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <54227875.4010806@aasimon.org> (Sorry for bluntly moving this thread to LAU list for my reply) Thank you very much for the amazing site. I think this more or less exactly what this community needs (and maybe the result of you questionaire from a while back Gabriel?). One thing I would very much like on the site is a subscription for email notification on new articles. Would this be possible? I know you explicitly asked for feedback to go through the forms on the website, but I figured this might be of interest to others in the LAU community as well. Kind regards Bent Bisballe Nyeng On 08/17/14 12:18, Gabriel Nordeborn wrote: > Hey everyone! > > It's our great pleasure to announce Libre Music Production > (http://www.libremusicproduction.com). Libre Music Production (LMP) is a > web portal and resource aimed at helping you make music using free and > open source software. While the portal was initially developed by a > small group of people, the aim and ambition is that LMP becomes a > community project where we all help out in building a great resource for > making music using FLOSS software. At launch we have over 10k words > worth of articles and guides, as well as a little over 2 hours of > recorded video material. > > We've prepared a press release that details more about this project at: > http://libremusicproduction.com/pressrelease > > We'd greatly appreciate any help in spreading the word about this > resource, as well as any help with contributing content and so on. > Please feel free to copy+paste the press release as you'd like, and > thank you very much for any help! > > Any other feedback is also greatly appreciated. Please use the contact > forms on the website :) > > Have a nice day! > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-announce mailing list > Linux-audio-announce at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-announce > From murks at tuxfamily.org Wed Sep 24 10:50:36 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 12:50:36 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: <20140923214126.GA1710@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140923214126.GA1710@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> Message-ID: <20140924125036.393adfd0@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 23:41:26 +0200 Tito Latini wrote: > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 08:21:30PM +0200, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > > Hi there, > > > > I encountered a nice piano learning video including hands and > > animated keys, but since it is playing at original speed it is way > > to fast for me to learn that song. In case anyone is interested, > > it's this video and I think it's rather nicely done (don't hate me > > for the music :P): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej6MF5KjuOc > > > > I found one way which sort of works (after settings LADSPA_PATH) > > but it sounds quite horrible. Is there a better way to do this? > > http://markplusplus.wordpress.com/2006/10/01/pitch-correct-play-speed-with-mplayer/ > > > > Is there a stretchplayer for video? > > The audio filter `scaletempo' should be acceptable for your purpose: > > mplayer -af scaletempo -speed 0.5 video... > > it's a little better: > > mplayer -af scaletempo=stride=50:overlap=.25:search=20 -speed 0.5 > video... Thanks Tito, it sounds indeed a little better than with the ladspa plugin. I guess piano notes just sound a little weird at half speed. Regards, Philipp From murks at tuxfamily.org Wed Sep 24 10:52:11 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 12:52:11 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: <201409240036.55570.gerhard.zintel@web.de> References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <201409240036.55570.gerhard.zintel@web.de> Message-ID: <20140924125211.3cad573f@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 00:36:55 +0200 Gerhard Zintel wrote: > On Tuesday 23 September 2014, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > > Hi there, > > > > I encountered a nice piano learning video including hands and > > animated keys, but since it is playing at original speed it is way > > to fast for me to learn that song. In case anyone is interested, > > it's this video and I think it's rather nicely done (don't hate me > > for the music :P): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej6MF5KjuOc > There is a link to the Midi file. You can play a Midi file at any > speed and look at the piano roll. > > Gerhard Thanks Gerhard, I had overlooked the midi file and sheet there. It should be of great help. Guess I'll use the video then only if I'm unsure about the fingering. Regards, Philipp From philcm at gnu.org Wed Sep 24 13:08:43 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Phil CM) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 14:08:43 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Current way to get ZASF as a plugin? Message-ID: <5422C25B.3010103@gnu.org> Hi everyone I'd really like to be able to finally use the new and shiny ZynAddSubFX in Qtractor (latest from source). I tried the "zynaddsubfx_dssi" but even ghostess could not start it: ? ghostess /usr/lib/dssi/libzynaddsubfx_dssi.so ghostess: ghostess starting... ghostess: failed to load plugin library /usr/lib/dssi/libzynaddsubfx_dssi.so Then I build the full monty using the latest source tar.gz on SF , because I could not get the git master branch to compile (I'm using Ubuntu 14.04 with 3.13.0-36-generic). Now ghostess does load something ? ghostess ~/src/zynaddsubfx-2.4.4/build/src/libzynaddsubfx_dssi.so ghostess: ghostess starting... ghostess: instance 0 on channel 0, plugin 0 is 'libzynaddsubfx_dssi/ZASF/inst00' ghostess: listening using ALSA MIDI ghostess ready I get a small window with just a "UI" button ; when clicked, it reveals a window with a "Send test note" that works! :) Just a sine wave "a" but still. There are "bank" & "program" menus, but they don't seem to work. In Qtractor, I get basically the same thing, without the test sound :/ It seems to be lacking both UI definitions and instruments. I also tried building Carla and puttin bin/carla.lv2 in my lv2 dir, carla showed up in qtractor LV2 tab but failed to load with suil error: Unable to wrap UI type as type exec failed: No such file or directory read() returned 0 force killing misbehaved child 11048 (start) Carla assertion failure: "fPipeSend != -1" in file ../../utils/CarlaPipeUtils.hpp, line 422 Carla assertion failure: "fUiServer.isOk()" in file CarlaEngineNative.cpp, line 935 QVariantMap DBusMenuExporterDBus::getProperties(int, const QStringList&) const: Condition failed: action (...) How can I link all this together? Wow, I'm on it since early this morning!? Thanks to anyone who's listening. Phil PS - I tried the "zynadd" package (can't find the sources/repo) w/o any luck PPS - WAIT! I missed the " ZynAddSubFX" entry in the LV2 list! This is from Carla (I tested it by trying to remove the carla.lv2 dir) ; It does load (and a song save / qtractor restart yeld no error) only I can't neither load a new instrument (I cloned the instrument repo and selected the dir as the default) nor seem to affect the sine sound playing (I turn the knobs, say ADSR in *edit instrument* and nothing changes)) so now I don't have ZASF but can see it from where I am :) Thank you for your patience. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edogawa at aon.at Wed Sep 24 13:18:51 2014 From: edogawa at aon.at (Edgar Aichinger) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:18:51 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: <20140923222927.7a6b18ee@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <2212805.unkC3ODKTB@edhp> <20140923222927.7a6b18ee@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <2416799.UB2BrmpGWx@edhp> Am Dienstag, 23. September 2014, 22:29:27 schrieb Philipp ?berbacher: > On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 20:39:03 +0200 > Edgar Aichinger wrote: > > > Am Dienstag, 23. September 2014, 20:21:30 schrieb Philipp ?berbacher: > > > Hi there, > > > > > > I encountered a nice piano learning video including hands and > > > animated keys, but since it is playing at original speed it is way > > > to fast for me to learn that song. In case anyone is interested, > > > it's this video and I think it's rather nicely done (don't hate me > > > for the music :P): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej6MF5KjuOc > > > > > > I found one way which sort of works (after settings LADSPA_PATH) > > > but it sounds quite horrible. Is there a better way to do this? > > > http://markplusplus.wordpress.com/2006/10/01/pitch-correct-play-speed-with-mplayer/ > > > > > > Is there a stretchplayer for video? > > > > VLC can do that, there's no nice GUI element for speed control, but a > > submenu in "playback" menu... don't expect high quality either. > > > > Edgar > > Hi Edgar, > > both mplayer and VLC provide such controls, it allows to slow > down or speed up the video but the audio is not pitch corrected as far > as I can tell. Hi again, Philipp, I wouldn't have suggested it if it wouldn't timestretch (while retaining pitch), I also explicitely tested it before I sent my mail and can assure that it doesn't change pitch while slowing down, both in video and audio files... Edgar > > A line like this works but requires to set the pitch beforehand > and also sounds rather bad. > mplayer -speed 0.5 -af ladspa=tap_pitch:tap_pitch:0:100:-90:0 Careless\ > Whisper\,\ George\ Michael\,\ piano-Ej6MF5KjuOc.mp4 > > Regards, > Philipp > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 24 13:53:26 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:53:26 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Current way to get ZASF as a plugin? In-Reply-To: <5422C25B.3010103@gnu.org> References: <5422C25B.3010103@gnu.org> Message-ID: <1411566806.838.18.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-24 at 14:08 +0100, Phil CM wrote: > I'm using Ubuntu 14.04 with 3.13.0-36-generic If I were you, I wouldn't use ZynAddSubFX as a plugin, if it does cause issues. Running ZynAddSubFX and Yoishimi not as a plugin usually doesn't cause problems. Anyway, 2 days ago Rui released a new version of Qtractor, "Qtractor 0.6.3 - The Armed Hadron beta release!", is this the version you're using? If not, try this version. OT: As a side note, if you plan to do MIDI productions, you won't go far when using the generic kernel. Ubuntu repositories provide a lowlatency kernel and a script called rtirq, use the packages for those or better compile a real-time kernel and get rtirq from Rui's homepage. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 24 14:33:26 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 16:33:26 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Current way to get ZASF as a plugin? In-Reply-To: <5422C25B.3010103@gnu.org> References: <5422C25B.3010103@gnu.org> Message-ID: <1411569206.838.20.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-24 at 14:08 +0100, Phil CM wrote: > Qtractor (latest from source). Pardon ;). Consider to join https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users and https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qtractor-devel (also for users) To file the bug against the Qtractor project tracker might be an alternative. From murks at tuxfamily.org Wed Sep 24 14:36:13 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 16:36:13 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: <2416799.UB2BrmpGWx@edhp> References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <2212805.unkC3ODKTB@edhp> <20140923222927.7a6b18ee@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <2416799.UB2BrmpGWx@edhp> Message-ID: <20140924163613.2a9d8918@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 15:18:51 +0200 Edgar Aichinger wrote: > Am Dienstag, 23. September 2014, 22:29:27 schrieb Philipp ?berbacher: > > On Tue, 23 Sep 2014 20:39:03 +0200 > > Edgar Aichinger wrote: > > > > > Am Dienstag, 23. September 2014, 20:21:30 schrieb Philipp > > > ?berbacher: > > > > Hi there, > > > > > > > > I encountered a nice piano learning video including hands and > > > > animated keys, but since it is playing at original speed it is > > > > way to fast for me to learn that song. In case anyone is > > > > interested, it's this video and I think it's rather nicely done > > > > (don't hate me for the music :P): > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej6MF5KjuOc > > > > > > > > I found one way which sort of works (after settings LADSPA_PATH) > > > > but it sounds quite horrible. Is there a better way to do this? > > > > http://markplusplus.wordpress.com/2006/10/01/pitch-correct-play-speed-with-mplayer/ > > > > > > > > Is there a stretchplayer for video? > > > > > > VLC can do that, there's no nice GUI element for speed control, > > > but a submenu in "playback" menu... don't expect high quality > > > either. > > > > > > Edgar > > > > Hi Edgar, > > > > both mplayer and VLC provide such controls, it allows to slow > > down or speed up the video but the audio is not pitch corrected as > > far as I can tell. > > Hi again, Philipp, > > I wouldn't have suggested it if it wouldn't timestretch (while > retaining pitch), I also explicitely tested it before I sent my mail > and can assure that it doesn't change pitch while slowing down, both > in video and audio files... > > Edgar Hi Edgar, it was a mistake on my side. There is an option that needs to be enabled. It can be found under Tools -> Preferences -> Audio and there in the effects section is an option called 'Enable Time-Stretching audio'. If enabled the pitch is corrected. Regards, Philipp From philcm at gnu.org Wed Sep 24 17:24:03 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Phil CM) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 18:24:03 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Current way to get ZASF as a plugin? In-Reply-To: <1411566806.838.18.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <5422C25B.3010103@gnu.org> <1411566806.838.18.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <5422FE33.7090200@gnu.org> On 24/09/2014 14:53, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-09-24 at 14:08 +0100, Phil CM wrote: >> I'm using Ubuntu 14.04 with 3.13.0-36-generic > If I were you, I wouldn't use ZynAddSubFX as a plugin, if it does cause > issues. Running ZynAddSubFX and Yoishimi not as a plugin usually doesn't > cause problems. Well, it depends on what you mean by "problems" :) Last time I tried to do this, I could not find a way to both restore the audio connections, the effects and the patch settings in Yoshimi at song loading-time. I lost a lot of studio time, and the song never made it to mixdown. And you have to create a bus to do this, there is no straightforward, documented procedure that I know of. Also, from what I read around, the ZynaddSubFX code base is now up-to-date, *and* comes with a DSSI plugin. I guess my question really was * Has anyone managed to get the build/src/libzynaddsubfx_dssi.so file to work? > Anyway, 2 days ago Rui released a new version of > Qtractor, "Qtractor 0.6.3 - The Armed Hadron beta release!", is this > the version you're using? If not, try this version. I am using this very version. > > OT: As a side note, if you plan to do MIDI productions, you won't go far > when using the generic kernel. Ubuntu repositories provide a lowlatency > kernel and a script called rtirq, use the packages for those or better > compile a real-time kernel and get rtirq from Rui's homepage. Oh, I forgot about this, thanks. It does run more smoothly now (3.13.0-36-lowlatency) ; I really hope that I'll manage to get ZASF to work as a plugin. Is anyone here using it this way? Phil > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philcm at gnu.org Wed Sep 24 18:34:54 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Phil CM) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 19:34:54 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Current way to get ZASF as a plugin? In-Reply-To: <1411569206.838.20.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <5422C25B.3010103@gnu.org> <1411569206.838.20.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <54230ECE.2050800@gnu.org> On 24/09/2014 15:33, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Wed, 2014-09-24 at 14:08 +0100, Phil CM wrote: >> Qtractor (latest from source). > Pardon ;). > > Consider to join > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users > and > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qtractor-devel > (also for users) > > To file the bug against the Qtractor project tracker might be an > alternative. Hey, I tried again (using this procedure) | ? sudo add-apt-repository ppa:kxstudio-debian/kxstudio ? sudo apt-get update ? sudo apt-get install kxstudio-repos ? sudo apt-get update ? sudo apt install carla-plugins-lv2 | And YAY I got it!! THANKS TO EVERYONE!! Phil > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Wed Sep 24 18:57:33 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 20:57:33 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Current way to get ZASF as a plugin? In-Reply-To: <5422FE33.7090200@gnu.org> References: <5422C25B.3010103@gnu.org> <1411566806.838.18.camel@rocketmail.com> <5422FE33.7090200@gnu.org> Message-ID: <1411585053.838.22.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-24 at 18:24 +0100, Phil CM wrote: > Last time I tried to do this, I could not find a way to both restore > the audio connections, the effects and the patch settings in Yoshimi > at song loading-time. I never used effects, but patch settings at least can be saved and loaded manually, it's one step to save all sound settings for all 16 channels (including volume and panning etc.). To restore audio and MIDI connections aj-snapshot does the trick. From goemusic at yahoo.fr Wed Sep 24 19:12:47 2014 From: goemusic at yahoo.fr (Frank Kober) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:12:47 +0200 Subject: [LAU] QMidiArp-0.6.1 maintenance release In-Reply-To: <1368053937.90511.YahooMailNeo@web172404.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> References: <1368053937.90511.YahooMailNeo@web172404.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2583989.d5rydKCtWu@localhost.localdomain> Here is a new qmidiarp release, some small things take some days more than 9 months, don't they? Along with a couple of (important) bugfixes and changes mainly regarding the QMidiArp LV2 plugin suite, 0.6.1 comes with only one new feature: the Arp can now step up and down octaves after a chord has been arped through, nothing more than what you would expect from an Arp right? Although this is something that was already partly possible by constructing a rather long pattern, it is now simply selectable from combo boxes. The LV2 plugins should now work fine in Ardour, Qtractor and Carla (1 and upcoming 2) including transport synchronisation and preset storage. Qt5 build is supported via configure option, but not recommended at the moment since the LV2 user interfaces wouldn't work in non Qt5 hosts, so basically nowhere. Thanks go to the reliable translators and to the bug reporters, but also to Rui and Filipe for making their plugin hosts better and better. Enjoy Frank From jeremy at autostatic.com Wed Sep 24 19:22:22 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:22:22 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Current way to get ZASF as a plugin? In-Reply-To: <54230ECE.2050800@gnu.org> References: <5422C25B.3010103@gnu.org> <1411569206.838.20.camel@rocketmail.com> <54230ECE.2050800@gnu.org> Message-ID: <542319EE.2030904@autostatic.com> On 09/24/2014 08:34 PM, Phil CM wrote: > > On 24/09/2014 15:33, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >> On Wed, 2014-09-24 at 14:08 +0100, Phil CM wrote: >>> Qtractor (latest from source). >> Pardon ;). >> >> Consider to join >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users >> and >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qtractor-devel >> (also for users) >> >> To file the bug against the Qtractor project tracker might be an >> alternative. > > Hey, I tried again (using this procedure) > | > ? sudo add-apt-repository ppa:kxstudio-debian/kxstudio > ? sudo apt-get update > ? sudo apt-get install kxstudio-repos > ? sudo apt-get update > ? sudo apt install carla-plugins-lv2 > | > > And YAY I got it!! THANKS TO EVERYONE!! > > Phil Great! That was exactly what I wanted to propose. The carla-plugins-lv2 package contains a LV2 version of ZynAddSubFX. Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From cannam at all-day-breakfast.com Wed Sep 24 20:21:59 2014 From: cannam at all-day-breakfast.com (Chris Cannam) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:21:59 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Sonic Visualiser v2.4 released Message-ID: <1411590119.3503741.171393945.73C03B29@webmail.messagingengine.com> Sonic Visualiser is an application for inspecting and analysing the contents of music audio files. It combines powerful waveform and spectral visualisation tools with automated feature extraction plugins and annotation capabilities. Version 2.4 of Sonic Visualiser is now available. This release contains some interesting new features, perhaps most noteworthy the ability to sonify (play back) continuous frequency curve layers, as well as a number of bug fixes and code quality improvements. http://www.sonicvisualiser.org/ For more information, please read the change log at: http://code.soundsoftware.ac.uk/projects/sonic-visualiser/repository/entry/CHANGELOG Sonic Visualiser uses Vamp plugins for automated audio feature analysis. For more information about Vamp plugins, including downloads and developer resources, see http://vamp-plugins.org/ Sonic Visualiser is Free Software under the GNU General Public Licence, developed at the Centre for Digital Music, Queen Mary University of London. Chris From falktx at gmail.com Wed Sep 24 20:25:22 2014 From: falktx at gmail.com (Filipe Coelho) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 21:25:22 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Current way to get ZASF as a plugin? In-Reply-To: <542319EE.2030904@autostatic.com> References: <5422C25B.3010103@gnu.org> <1411569206.838.20.camel@rocketmail.com> <54230ECE.2050800@gnu.org> <542319EE.2030904@autostatic.com> Message-ID: <542328B2.4000304@gmail.com> On 09/24/2014 08:22 PM, Jeremy Jongepier wrote: > On 09/24/2014 08:34 PM, Phil CM wrote: >> On 24/09/2014 15:33, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >>> On Wed, 2014-09-24 at 14:08 +0100, Phil CM wrote: >>>> Qtractor (latest from source). >>> Pardon ;). >>> >>> Consider to join >>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-users >>> and >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qtractor-devel >>> (also for users) >>> >>> To file the bug against the Qtractor project tracker might be an >>> alternative. >> Hey, I tried again (using this procedure) >> | >> ? sudo add-apt-repository ppa:kxstudio-debian/kxstudio >> ? sudo apt-get update >> ? sudo apt-get install kxstudio-repos >> ? sudo apt-get update >> ? sudo apt install carla-plugins-lv2 >> | >> >> And YAY I got it!! THANKS TO EVERYONE!! >> >> Phil > Great! That was exactly what I wanted to propose. The carla-plugins-lv2 > package contains a LV2 version of ZynAddSubFX. Just a heads up, soon the package will be renamed carla-lv2 and carla-plugins-lv2 will be a dummy one without content. This is because the packages are currently duplicating a lot of files and using a lot of useless space. (the discovery + linux32/64 and win32/64 bridges can take ~100Mb) I want to have carla-lv2 and carla-vst depend on carla-git to remove the need of duplicated files. But with this it will no longer being possible to use carla-plugins-lv2 without depending on carla/carla-git. I also started a separate github repo for zyn-lv2/vst plugin without needing carla, but there are currently drawing issues when used in ardour3. FLTK/NTK also has issues with top-level menus, so zyn UI will have to be external. When this work is ready I'll make an announcement. From conor.mccormack at gmx.com Wed Sep 24 21:28:57 2014 From: conor.mccormack at gmx.com (Conor Mc Cormack) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 22:28:57 +0100 Subject: [LAU] [LAA] Announcing LibreMusicProduction.com In-Reply-To: <54227875.4010806@aasimon.org> References: <54227875.4010806@aasimon.org> Message-ID: <54233799.9010309@gmx.com> Hi Bent, Conor here from LMP. We currently don't have email notifications set up for new content. We do however have an RSS feed which will notify you of any new content in the news, articles and tutorials sections of the website. We also put out a newsletter each month where we cover what's new on the website. Cheers, Conor On 24/09/14 08:53, Bent Bisballe Nyeng wrote: > (Sorry for bluntly moving this thread to LAU list for my reply) > > Thank you very much for the amazing site. I think this more or less > exactly what this community needs (and maybe the result of you > questionaire from a while back Gabriel?). > > One thing I would very much like on the site is a subscription for > email notification on new articles. Would this be possible? > > I know you explicitly asked for feedback to go through the forms on > the website, but I figured this might be of interest to others in the > LAU community as well. > > Kind regards > Bent Bisballe Nyeng > > On 08/17/14 12:18, Gabriel Nordeborn wrote: >> Hey everyone! >> >> It's our great pleasure to announce Libre Music Production >> (http://www.libremusicproduction.com). Libre Music Production (LMP) is a >> web portal and resource aimed at helping you make music using free and >> open source software. While the portal was initially developed by a >> small group of people, the aim and ambition is that LMP becomes a >> community project where we all help out in building a great resource for >> making music using FLOSS software. At launch we have over 10k words >> worth of articles and guides, as well as a little over 2 hours of >> recorded video material. >> >> We've prepared a press release that details more about this project at: >> http://libremusicproduction.com/pressrelease >> >> We'd greatly appreciate any help in spreading the word about this >> resource, as well as any help with contributing content and so on. >> Please feel free to copy+paste the press release as you'd like, and >> thank you very much for any help! >> >> Any other feedback is also greatly appreciated. Please use the contact >> forms on the website :) >> >> Have a nice day! >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux-audio-announce mailing list >> Linux-audio-announce at lists.linuxaudio.org >> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-announce >> > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user From email.rafa at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 03:13:48 2014 From: email.rafa at gmail.com (Rafael Vega) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 22:13:48 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Problems with real time kernel, thermal throttling and cpu freq governors. Message-ID: Hi all, I'm re-posting this issue here since there are more real-time kernel users here than in other lists/forums and I'm hoping to get attention into this issue. In short, when running the RT kernel from Debian Jessie repos (3.14-2-rt-amd64), the scaling governor cannot be changed and the system hangs if the cpu temperature reaches the thermal throttling threshold. More info here: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=117613&p=554270#p554270 Has anyone experienced this issue? Anyone else running that kernel version from the Debian repos? Any other RT kernels for Debian out there that I could test? Thanks! -- Rafael Vega email.rafa at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From len at ovenwerks.net Thu Sep 25 05:49:16 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2014 22:49:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Problems with real time kernel, thermal throttling and cpu freq governors. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 24 Sep 2014, Rafael Vega wrote: > In short, when running the RT kernel from Debian Jessie repos (3.14-2-rt-amd64), the > scaling governor cannot be changed and the system hangs if the cpu temperature reaches > the thermal throttling threshold. It sounds like there are two things that might work... use an older kernel (Is there something in 3.14 you must have?, maybe 3.16 will fix if you wait.) Set the default governor to performance at compile time (or maybe boot time). Personally, under stress test, I have found that with all cores at 100% Performance runs cooler than Ondemand or userspace with some cores set lower speed. The only place I find a difference is at idle performance seems a bit warmer... but at idle the temperature is way lower anyway. Is boost turned off in bios? The new kernel needs to have speed step on to use Intel's boost technology. Boost over speeds the cpu till it over heats then backs off... over simplified yes. Performance may put the chip into boost mode (performance is the highest speed after all) all the time. Can you get it into userspace? If so you could set the speed manually. I just checked. Boost speed for your chip is quite high(3.4Gh) I only have an i5 with 4 cores no HT. (maybe I shouldn't say only as yours has only two cores 4 with HT) With the cores set performance and stress set to 100% on all cores, I am still 10deg less(~60C) than Max running temp. (70C) Temperature shutdown should be a lot higher than that (over 100C ... both your chip and mine)). Are you using a temperature monitor? The temperature should settle after about 10min at a stress level. (both my tests and Intel specs agree on the 10 min thing) I am using 3.13 lowlatency, but 100% stress should do the same either way. It sounds like you machine is running really hot... or is running over 2.7G I have been using psensor to monitor temperature. Mine is not a laptop though. Just a note, any testing I have done has shown that running my 3Gh + (without boost) CPU at 800Mh (with the userspace governor) gives better lowlatency than ondemand at full speed does. Hyperthreading and ondemand: Ondemand affects even higher latency. HT only seems to be an issue for latency below jack at 64/2, at least in my tests. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 25 06:18:50 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:18:50 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Problems with real time kernel, thermal throttling and cpu freq governors. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1411625930.838.35.camel@rocketmail.com> On Wed, 2014-09-24 at 22:13 -0500, Rafael Vega wrote: > Any other RT kernels for Debian out there that I could test? Maybe I made a typo somewhere, but after fixing a typo that might be there or not, the script should work. #!/bin/sh export CONCURRENCY_LEVEL=2 # Kernel to build is version KMAJOR=3.8 KMINOR=.13 KMICRO=.14-rt30 KERNEL_UNAME=${KMAJOR}${KMINOR}${KMICRO} # Directory where the source codes should be saved SRC_DIR=/usr/src cd $SRC_DIR # Download all sources to source directory wget https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v3.x/linux-3.8.13.tar.bz2 wget https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/3.8/stable/patch-3.8.13.14.gz wget https://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/3.8/patch-3.8.13.14-rt30.patch.gz # Extracting and patching tar -jxvf linux-${KMAJOR}${KMINOR}.tar.bz2 mv linux-${KMAJOR}${KMINOR} linux-${KERNEL_UNAME} cd linux-${KERNEL_UNAME} gzip -dc ../patch-3.8.13.14.gz | patch -p1 gzip -dc ../patch-${KERNEL_UNAME}.patch.gz | patch -p1 rm ../linux-${KMAJOR}${KMINOR}.tar.bz2 rm ../patch-${KERNEL_UNAME}.patch.gz # Configuration cp /boot/config-$(uname -r) .config make oldconfig # Building the kernel make-kpkg clean make-kpkg --initrd kernel-image kernel-headers exit From murks at tuxfamily.org Thu Sep 25 09:26:10 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 11:26:10 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi Message-ID: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Hi again, what is currently the best (least jitter, reliable) way to bridge alsa and jack midi? The goal is rather simple, I want to be able to use my e-piano (connected through USB) to play aeolus. Or rather allow a friend of mine who actually knows how to play church organ to play it. The keyboard shows up as alsa midi device while aeolus requires jack midi input. It seems that aeolus can use alsa midi when run with the -A option. I got it to work somewhat using 'a2jmidi -e' but it turned out to be rather unreliable. When I ran jack with a rather low latency setting and got the first xrun a2jmidid crashed. Yes, xruns shouldn't happen and there are some more thing I could do to avoid them, but programs still shouldn't crash once an xrun occurs. I also seem to remember that there's a better way to do this in the meantime, however, the recently posted guide still only mentions a2jmidid: http://lsn.ponderworthy.com/doku.php/audio_with_midi_on_linux On a sidenote: A rather funky thing that I noticed when playing with this is that patchage (1.0.0) reliably segfaults as soon as I shut down aeolus (0.9.0). I'm not sure which program is at fault, maybe one of you knows so that I can file a proper bug report at the right place. Regards, Philipp From silvain at freeshell.de Thu Sep 25 09:55:00 2014 From: silvain at freeshell.de (F. Silvain) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 11:55:00 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <1409251150380.27667@freeshell.de> Philipp ?berbacher, Sep 25 2014: > Hi again, > > what is currently the best (least jitter, reliable) way to bridge alsa > and jack midi? JACK's option -Xseq will include all hardware MIDI devices (including USB MIDI). I never even had plug-and-play problems. > The goal is rather simple, I want to be able to use my e-piano > (connected through USB) to play aeolus. Or rather allow a friend of > mine who actually knows how to play church organ to play it. What's wrong with Aeolus' ALSA midi port? My .aeolusrc doesn't even contain -A and still gives me an ALSA midi port in addition to the JACK midi port. ... > I got it to work somewhat using 'a2jmidi -e' but it turned out to be > rather unreliable. When I ran jack with a rather low latency setting > and got the first xrun a2jmidid crashed. Yes, xruns shouldn't happen > and there are some more thing I could do to avoid them, but programs > still shouldn't crash once an xrun occurs. a2jmidi works fine here, when I have to use it. Very reliably and accurately.llly. ... Ta-ta ---- Ffanci * Internet: http://freeshell.de/~silvain From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 25 10:34:20 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:34:20 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <1409251150380.27667@freeshell.de> References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1409251150380.27667@freeshell.de> Message-ID: <1411641260.7277.1.camel@rocketmail.com> jackd --sync -Xalsarawmidi -dalsa -r48000 -p256 a2jmidid -e still is the way I go, when using jack2. Regarding MIDI jitter I don't know if nowadays something better is implemented for jack2 and/or jack1 or if jack1 nowadays provide alsarawmidi too. I guess you need to test all available options on your own. IMO you shouldn't use an USB device if you care about MIDI jitter, this seems to be the weakest point in your chain. From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 25 10:38:10 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:38:10 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <1409251150380.27667@freeshell.de> References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <1409251150380.27667@freeshell.de> Message-ID: <1411641490.7277.3.camel@rocketmail.com> PS: It's impossible to use my RME HDSPe AIO on my machine without producing tons of xruns, but a2jmidid -e never crashed on my machine. From harryhaaren at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 12:38:20 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 13:38:20 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Problems with real time kernel, thermal throttling and cpu freq governors. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:13 AM, Rafael Vega wrote: > In short, when running the RT kernel from Debian Jessie repos > (3.14-2-rt-amd64), the scaling governor cannot be changed and the system > hangs if the cpu temperature reaches the thermal throttling threshold. I've been noticing the issue of not being able to change frequency governer on -rt kernels here. I've posted to the -rt mailing list, details here (click "next in thread" to follow convo): http://marc.info/?l=linux-rt-users&m=140897493204106&w=2 In short, there seems to be something going wrong with locking / unlocking an RW lock that is used during a CPU freq scaling. I have pin-pointed the issue to a pretty specific place in /drivers/cpufreq/cpufreq.c but I don't know how to fix it. Note that I'm running 3.14.12-rt9-1-rt (Arch linux, from AUR) but the issue seems identical to me.. I have an older CPU (Core2Duo from about 7 years ago), but I read in the forum link you have an i7? That shouldn't have the same issue... I'll post to the -RT list, mentioning your email, and you system config, and see if the devs there think they're releated or different. Cheers, -Harry -- www.openavproductions.com From jhernberg at alchemy.lu Thu Sep 25 13:04:16 2014 From: jhernberg at alchemy.lu (Joakim Hernberg) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 15:04:16 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Problems with real time kernel, thermal throttling and cpu freq governors. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140925150416.777f6819@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 22:13:48 -0500 Rafael Vega wrote: > I'm re-posting this issue here since there are more real-time kernel > users here than in other lists/forums and I'm hoping to get attention > into this issue. > > In short, when running the RT kernel from Debian Jessie repos > (3.14-2-rt-amd64), the scaling governor cannot be changed and the > system hangs if the cpu temperature reaches the thermal throttling > threshold. > > More info here: > http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=117613&p=554270#p554270 > > Has anyone experienced this issue? Anyone else running that kernel > version from the Debian repos? Any other RT kernels for Debian out > there that I could test? I can confirm both issues on the archlinux 3.14-rt kernel. Maybe best to seek a resolution on the linux-rt-users mailing list. If you have a recent Intel cpu, you might be able to work around the problems using the /dev/cpu_dma_latency and /sys/devices/system/cpu/intel_pstate interfaces. -- Joakim From len at ovenwerks.net Thu Sep 25 13:18:05 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 06:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] express card on new laptops Message-ID: Is expresscard the slot that can have a firewire interface? It seems that some of the "rugged", "milspec", (expensive) laptops like this one still have it: http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/latitude-7404-laptop/pd?p=latitude-7404-laptop&view=pdetails&isredir=true I was actually looking to see if there were laptops that came with plugs with a high insertion cycle rating.... but there is no mention of that. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From jeremy at autostatic.com Thu Sep 25 13:21:09 2014 From: jeremy at autostatic.com (Jeremy Jongepier) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 15:21:09 +0200 Subject: [LAU] express card on new laptops In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <542416C5.3040103@autostatic.com> On 09/25/2014 03:18 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > Is expresscard the slot that can have a firewire interface? Yes. Jeremy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Thu Sep 25 13:22:18 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 15:22:18 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Problems with real time kernel, thermal throttling and cpu freq governors. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1411651338.7277.5.camel@rocketmail.com> On Thu, 2014-09-25 at 13:38 +0100, Harry van Haaren wrote: > I've been noticing the issue of not being able to change frequency > governer Len recommended to compile the kernel by default to what is wanted. Assumed it should work, I guess this would be a good workaround. Btw. a while ago Len made some claims about "ondemand" vs "performance" in the meanwhile I made some electricity consumption measurements and I will continue those measurements. Currently it seems to be, that my machine does consume more kWh when using "ondemand", yes, it seems to be that "performance" is consuming less kWh on my machine. There are two weak points, I don't have a good measuring instrument for this task and the workflow likely has got impact to the result too. Anyway, a lowlatency (full preempt) and a rt-kernel by default should come with "performance". From lau at kudla.org Thu Sep 25 14:06:57 2014 From: lau at kudla.org (Rob Kudla) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:06:57 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <54242181.1040401@kudla.org> On 09/23/2014 02:21 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > I encountered a nice piano learning video including hands and animated > keys, but since it is playing at original speed it is way to fast for > me to learn that song. In case anyone is interested, it's this video > and I think it's rather nicely done (don't hate me for the music :P): > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej6MF5KjuOc While it sounds like you may have found something that gets the job done, I got better quality (to my ears) than mplayer or VLC like this: $ ffmpeg -i careless-whisper-piano-orig.mp4 -an -b:v 1022k -vf "setpts=(1/0.25)*PTS" careless-whisper-piano-tutorial.mp4 $ ffmpeg -i careless-whisper-piano-orig.mp4 careless-whisper-piano-tutorial.wav $ rubberband -t4 careless-whisper-piano-tutorial.wav careless-whisper-piano-tutorial-stretched.wav $ ffmpeg -i careless-whisper-piano-tutorial.mp4 -i careless-whisper-piano-tutorial-stretched.wav -c:v copy careless-whisper-piano-tutorial-stretched.mp4 It took a while (probably 20 minutes on my underpowered laptop) but I think this is the method I'll be using the next time I want to learn a part. Not really a fan of this particular song, but stretched out 4:1 it sounds kind of mellow and what artifacts I hear just make it a little bit trippy, while making any Richard-Clayderman-esque parallel-6th abuse and other easy-listening cliches in this arrangement less noticeable. So, that's an improvement. Rob From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Thu Sep 25 14:52:41 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:52:41 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 5:26 AM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > Hi again, > > what is currently the best (least jitter, reliable) way to bridge alsa > and jack midi? > It depends on the version of JACK you are using. With current JACK1, the -X seq option is the best. With older JACK1 and any version of JACK2, using a2jmidid -e is the best option as far as timing. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From email.rafa at gmail.com Thu Sep 25 15:15:09 2014 From: email.rafa at gmail.com (Rafael Vega) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:15:09 -0500 Subject: [LAU] Problems with real time kernel, thermal throttling and cpu freq governors. In-Reply-To: <20140925150416.777f6819@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> References: <20140925150416.777f6819@tor.valhalla.alchemy.lu> Message-ID: Thanks for all the replies! I'll take the discussion to the linux-rt-users list :) On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 8:04 AM, Joakim Hernberg wrote: > On Wed, 24 Sep 2014 22:13:48 -0500 > Rafael Vega wrote: > > > I'm re-posting this issue here since there are more real-time kernel > > users here than in other lists/forums and I'm hoping to get attention > > into this issue. > > > > In short, when running the RT kernel from Debian Jessie repos > > (3.14-2-rt-amd64), the scaling governor cannot be changed and the > > system hangs if the cpu temperature reaches the thermal throttling > > threshold. > > > > More info here: > > http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=117613&p=554270#p554270 > > > > Has anyone experienced this issue? Anyone else running that kernel > > version from the Debian repos? Any other RT kernels for Debian out > > there that I could test? > > I can confirm both issues on the archlinux 3.14-rt kernel. > > Maybe best to seek a resolution on the linux-rt-users mailing list. > > If you have a recent Intel cpu, you might be able to work around the > problems using the /dev/cpu_dma_latency > and /sys/devices/system/cpu/intel_pstate interfaces. > > -- > > Joakim > -- Rafael Vega email.rafa at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From murks at tuxfamily.org Thu Sep 25 20:56:59 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 22:56:59 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:52:41 -0400 Paul Davis wrote: > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 5:26 AM, Philipp ?berbacher > wrote: > > > Hi again, > > > > what is currently the best (least jitter, reliable) way to bridge > > alsa and jack midi? > > > > > It depends on the version of JACK you are using. With current JACK1, > the -X seq option is the best. > With older JACK1 and any version of JACK2, using a2jmidid -e is the > best option as far as timing. So I remember correctly that there used to be issues with -X seq. I use jack 1 and it is the latest version, so I'll try -X seq. Thanks Paul. From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Thu Sep 25 22:17:56 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:17:56 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > on as far as timing. > > So I remember correctly that there used to be issues with -X seq. > > the -X seq option in current JACK1 is just a backward compatible hack to allow qjackctl and other tools to invoke the relevant stuff. the actual implementation is nothing to do with the old -X seq code, and is actually a2jmidid converted into an internal client. Note that JACK2 could use this client too - its source code is even in the theoretically "shared" git repo for JACK tools. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From murks at tuxfamily.org Fri Sep 26 11:17:48 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 13:17:48 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:17:56 -0400 Paul Davis wrote: > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Philipp ?berbacher > wrote: > > > on as far as timing. > > > > So I remember correctly that there used to be issues with -X seq. > > > > > the -X seq option in current JACK1 is just a backward compatible hack > to allow qjackctl and other tools to invoke the relevant stuff. > > the actual implementation is nothing to do with the old -X seq code, > and is actually a2jmidid converted into an internal client. Note that > JACK2 could use this client too - its source code is even in the > theoretically "shared" git repo for JACK tools. Is there a new, recommended way to do the same thing? I only found -X alsa_midi in the man page but it does not have the same effect. Why isn't jack2 using the same client? It seems more convenient to just use jack with -X seq rather than running another program. Regards, Philipp From murks at tuxfamily.org Fri Sep 26 12:13:24 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 14:13:24 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Slow but pitch-correct video playback In-Reply-To: <54242181.1040401@kudla.org> References: <20140923202130.0c66b5a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <54242181.1040401@kudla.org> Message-ID: <20140926141324.2e219d7d@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:06:57 -0400 Rob Kudla wrote: > On 09/23/2014 02:21 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > > I encountered a nice piano learning video including hands and > > animated keys, but since it is playing at original speed it is way > > to fast for me to learn that song. In case anyone is interested, > > it's this video and I think it's rather nicely done (don't hate me > > for the music :P): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej6MF5KjuOc > > While it sounds like you may have found something that gets the job > done, I got better quality (to my ears) than mplayer or VLC like this: > > $ ffmpeg -i careless-whisper-piano-orig.mp4 -an -b:v 1022k -vf > "setpts=(1/0.25)*PTS" careless-whisper-piano-tutorial.mp4 > > $ ffmpeg -i careless-whisper-piano-orig.mp4 > careless-whisper-piano-tutorial.wav > > $ rubberband -t4 careless-whisper-piano-tutorial.wav > careless-whisper-piano-tutorial-stretched.wav > > $ ffmpeg -i careless-whisper-piano-tutorial.mp4 -i > careless-whisper-piano-tutorial-stretched.wav -c:v copy > careless-whisper-piano-tutorial-stretched.mp4 > > It took a while (probably 20 minutes on my underpowered laptop) but I > think this is the method I'll be using the next time I want to learn > a part. Not really a fan of this particular song, but stretched out > 4:1 it sounds kind of mellow and what artifacts I hear just make it a > little bit trippy, while making any Richard-Clayderman-esque > parallel-6th abuse and other easy-listening cliches in this > arrangement less noticeable. So, that's an improvement. > > Rob Thanks a lot Rob. I finally came around to try this method and it sounds indeed better than the on-the-fly methods in VLC and so on. I find it funny that, according to Wikipedia, George Michael himself doesn't particularly like the song (at least the lyrics). I'm not a George Michael fan nor do I particularly like easy listening music, quite on the contrary, but it's a nice enough song and I figured it's not too hard to learn. Once I know how to play it I'll play with it and interpret it anyway. Let's see how that will turn out :) Regards, Philipp From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Fri Sep 26 14:50:06 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:50:06 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:17:56 -0400 > Paul Davis wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Philipp ?berbacher > > wrote: > > > > > on as far as timing. > > > > > > So I remember correctly that there used to be issues with -X seq. > > > > > > > > the -X seq option in current JACK1 is just a backward compatible hack > > to allow qjackctl and other tools to invoke the relevant stuff. > > > > the actual implementation is nothing to do with the old -X seq code, > > and is actually a2jmidid converted into an internal client. Note that > > JACK2 could use this client too - its source code is even in the > > theoretically "shared" git repo for JACK tools. > > Is there a new, recommended way to do the same thing? I only found -X > alsa_midi in the man page but it does not have the same effect. > the confusion here is that there are two sets of command line arguments when you start JACK: jackd [ SERVER OPTIONS ] -d BACKEND_NAME [ BACKEND OPTIONS ] for better or for worse, some of the option letters (e.g. -X or -p) can occur as either server options or backend options. in the "old" world, there was only -X as a backend option and it had two arguments ("seq" or "raw"). Both of them are basically not sensible to use because of the poor implementations they refer to. in the new world, the preferable use of -X is as a server option: jackd ... -X alsa_midi ... -d BACKEND .... BUT ... given the legacy of qjackctl and other control apps which don't know about this, I hacked jack1 so that it would look for the the -X seq argument as a **backend** option and treat that as if the user had used the new form. It would have been less confusing to have not done this, but that would have meant that it would be impossible/harder to use qjackctl to invoke this new MIDI bridge stuff, since it only knows about -X (seq|raw) as a backend option. Alles klar? Why isn't jack2 using the same client? It seems more convenient to just > use jack with -X seq rather than running another program. > the developers of jack2 have so far not bothered to integrate the "shared" repository for jack tools into their source code. ps. I copied the use of -X as a server option to do this sort of thing from Jack2. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From murks at tuxfamily.org Fri Sep 26 15:12:18 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 17:12:18 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140926171218.18e87c26@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:50:06 -0400 Paul Davis wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Philipp ?berbacher > wrote: > > > On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:17:56 -0400 > > Paul Davis wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Philipp ?berbacher > > > wrote: > > > > > > > on as far as timing. > > > > > > > > So I remember correctly that there used to be issues with -X > > > > seq. > > > > > > > > > > > the -X seq option in current JACK1 is just a backward compatible > > > hack to allow qjackctl and other tools to invoke the relevant > > > stuff. > > > > > > the actual implementation is nothing to do with the old -X seq > > > code, and is actually a2jmidid converted into an internal client. > > > Note that JACK2 could use this client too - its source code is > > > even in the theoretically "shared" git repo for JACK tools. > > > > Is there a new, recommended way to do the same thing? I only found > > -X alsa_midi in the man page but it does not have the same effect. > > > > the confusion here is that there are two sets of command line > arguments when you start JACK: > > jackd [ SERVER OPTIONS ] -d BACKEND_NAME [ BACKEND OPTIONS ] > > for better or for worse, some of the option letters (e.g. -X or -p) > can occur as either server options or backend options. > > in the "old" world, there was only -X as a backend option and it had > two arguments ("seq" or "raw"). Both of them are basically not > sensible to use because of the poor implementations they refer to. > > in the new world, the preferable use of -X is as a server option: > > jackd ... -X alsa_midi ... -d BACKEND .... > > BUT ... given the legacy of qjackctl and other control apps which > don't know about this, I hacked jack1 so that it would look for the > the -X seq argument as a **backend** option and treat that as if the > user had used the new form. > > It would have been less confusing to have not done this, but that > would have meant that it would be impossible/harder to use qjackctl > to invoke this new MIDI bridge stuff, since it only knows about -X > (seq|raw) as a backend option. > > Alles klar? Alles klar. Well, mostly. I guess that alsa_midi only makes sense when alsa is used as a backend, so I don't quite see why it is a server option instead of a backend option. Anyway, using the -X alsa_midi as server option works. Oh, and I just noticed that jack now tells which programs are blocking the audio interface. Very convenient! Regards, Philipp From csanchezgs at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 16:25:04 2014 From: csanchezgs at gmail.com (Carlos sanchiavedraz) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 18:25:04 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New EP made in Linux: A Passionate Tribute In-Reply-To: <20140915040123.GA2321@tf101> References: <20140915040123.GA2321@tf101> Message-ID: 2014-09-15 6:01 GMT+02:00 Ken Restivo : > On Mon, Sep 08, 2014 at 10:35:24PM +0200, Carlo Ascani wrote: > > "A Passionate Tribute" is a 3 song EP made in Linux. > > > > You can hear that on bandcamp: > > https://lotfi.bandcamp.com/album/a-passionate-tribute-ep > > or download the tracks from: > > > > http://carlorat.me/carpenter.flac > > http://carlorat.me/fulci.flac > > http://carlorat.me/bava.flac > > > > This is totally hobbystic, I made it just for fun, in my home. > > My setup looks like this: > > http://i.imgur.com/9cpuZLe.jpg > > And yes, the amiga is playing as a soft synth in some part. > > > > The acoustic drums were recorded in another house, and they are these: > > > http://linux-audio.4202.n7.nabble.com/A-short-story-from-zero-to-recording-the-drums-in-a-budget-td91632.html > > > > Here is a couple of words about song meanings: > > http://carlorat.me/quote/apassionatetribute/ > > > > Nice! +1 for the "They Live" sample too. > > -ken > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > Carlo, I also did like all the tracks as well. Well done, with good taste and using just a few pieces of gear from what I see in the picture. They are not repetitive and keep in some way your attention in certain parts; the samples from movies give it a nice and Proggy touch; It seems well produced, levels, instrumentation. In some passages it reminds me of works by Kevin Moore (most of all the use of samples from movies), in his solo projects and others more heavier like O.S.I. Thanks for sharing. -- C. sanchiavedraZ: * NEW / NUEVO: www.sanchiavedraZ.com * Musix GNU+Linux: www.musix.es -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rncbc at rncbc.org Fri Sep 26 16:26:15 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 17:26:15 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <20140926171218.18e87c26@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926171218.18e87c26@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <542593A7.4030206@rncbc.org> On 09/26/2014 04:12 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:50:06 -0400 > Paul Davis wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Philipp ?berbacher >> wrote: >> >>> On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:17:56 -0400 >>> Paul Davis wrote: >>> >>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Philipp ?berbacher >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> on as far as timing. >>>>> >>>>> So I remember correctly that there used to be issues with -X >>>>> seq. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> the -X seq option in current JACK1 is just a backward compatible >>>> hack to allow qjackctl and other tools to invoke the relevant >>>> stuff. >>>> >>>> the actual implementation is nothing to do with the old -X seq >>>> code, and is actually a2jmidid converted into an internal client. >>>> Note that JACK2 could use this client too - its source code is >>>> even in the theoretically "shared" git repo for JACK tools. >>> >>> Is there a new, recommended way to do the same thing? I only found >>> -X alsa_midi in the man page but it does not have the same effect. >>> >> >> the confusion here is that there are two sets of command line >> arguments when you start JACK: >> >> jackd [ SERVER OPTIONS ] -d BACKEND_NAME [ BACKEND OPTIONS ] >> >> for better or for worse, some of the option letters (e.g. -X or -p) >> can occur as either server options or backend options. >> >> in the "old" world, there was only -X as a backend option and it had >> two arguments ("seq" or "raw"). Both of them are basically not >> sensible to use because of the poor implementations they refer to. >> >> in the new world, the preferable use of -X is as a server option: >> >> jackd ... -X alsa_midi ... -d BACKEND .... >> >> BUT ... given the legacy of qjackctl and other control apps which >> don't know about this, I hacked jack1 so that it would look for the >> the -X seq argument as a **backend** option and treat that as if the >> user had used the new form. >> >> It would have been less confusing to have not done this, but that >> would have meant that it would be impossible/harder to use qjackctl >> to invoke this new MIDI bridge stuff, since it only knows about -X >> (seq|raw) as a backend option. >> >> Alles klar? > > Alles klar. Well, mostly. I guess that alsa_midi only makes sense > when alsa is used as a backend, so I don't quite see why it is a server > option instead of a backend option. Anyway, using the -X alsa_midi as > server option works. > on qjackctl settings, you can set the server prefix to "jackd -X alsa_midi" and leave the midi driver to "none", especially when NOT using "alsa" as the driver back-end. hth. cheers -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc at rncbc.org From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Fri Sep 26 16:35:07 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:35:07 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <542593A7.4030206@rncbc.org> References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926171218.18e87c26@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <542593A7.4030206@rncbc.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > > on qjackctl settings, you can set the server prefix to "jackd -X > alsa_midi" and leave the midi driver to "none", especially when NOT using > "alsa" as the driver back-end. > Yes, that's why I tried to pick my words carefully "qjackctl and other control apps which don't know about this". That technique does work, also. I was just trying to make the setup dialog continue to function in the best possible way, given that jack1 no longer has the seq or raw midi components. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Fri Sep 26 16:36:38 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:36:38 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <20140926171218.18e87c26@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926171218.18e87c26@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > Alles klar. Well, mostly. I guess that alsa_midi only makes sense > when alsa is used as a backend, so I don't quite see why it is a server > option instead of a backend option. No, this is what is so lovely about it. You can now use a FFADO backend *and* -X alsa_midi and get full bridging to ALSA MIDI just as you would do with a2jmidid. This was impossible with the old backend-based "seq" and "raw" options. This lets you interface with ALSA-only MIDI apps even when using FFADO or other JACK backends such as netjack. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From csanchezgs at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 16:36:58 2014 From: csanchezgs at gmail.com (Carlos sanchiavedraz) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 18:36:58 +0200 Subject: [LAU] A tune to share In-Reply-To: <20140921094525.3f8c81ee@mistral> References: <20140921094525.3f8c81ee@mistral> Message-ID: 2014-09-21 15:45 GMT+02:00 jonetsu at teksavvy.com : > Hello all, > > I would like to share this that I made. Any comments welcomed ! > About the music, the recording, etc... > > Although on youtube, there's no video, only audio: > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqiJT17m1Xs > > Recorded using Ardour, mixed using Jamin. Linux standard soundfounts > for congas, Yamaha grand and warm pad, using Qsynth. 2 Takamine > acoustic guitars. Acoustic bass guitar. Soundfount congas played using > the rubber pads of an Axiom 25 keyboard. Audio card is 1010LT, mic was > M-Audio Pulsar. Freeverb on acoustic guitars, Echo Delay on solo > guitar. Multiband EQ on all acoustic instruments. > > Cheers. > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > Hi Jonet. I liked the song, it has the ambient of a live jam of a few musicians recorded in the spot, when their alone in a bar, and staff if cleaning just before closing. Really acoustic and intimate, with a taste of latin acoustic music. Maybe reverb is a little over the top, but I guess it was intentionally, and it's a matter of taste. Thanks for sharing. -- C. sanchiavedraZ: * NEW / NUEVO: www.sanchiavedraZ.com * Musix GNU+Linux: www.musix.es -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Fri Sep 26 17:32:33 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 18:32:33 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926171218.18e87c26@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140926183233.1c8a2009@debian> On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:36:38 -0400 Paul Davis wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Philipp ?berbacher > wrote: > > > Alles klar. Well, mostly. I guess that alsa_midi only makes sense > > when alsa is used as a backend, so I don't quite see why it is a server > > option instead of a backend option. > > > No, this is what is so lovely about it. You can now use a FFADO backend > *and* -X alsa_midi and get full bridging to ALSA MIDI just as you would do > with a2jmidid. This was impossible with the old backend-based "seq" and > "raw" options. This lets you interface with ALSA-only MIDI apps even when > using FFADO or other JACK backends such as netjack. I confess I'm getting *more* confused about all of this :( I use up to 3 hardware MIDI ports for my compositions along with Rosegarden (which is ALSA MIDI only). Up to now I've been getting along quite well with this, as all the other software I use can work with ALSA. While I fully appreciate the issues around supporting both forms I'm getting a bit concerned by the push towards a JACK only system. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From harryhaaren at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 17:43:08 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 18:43:08 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <20140926183233.1c8a2009@debian> References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926171218.18e87c26@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926183233.1c8a2009@debian> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 6:32 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > I confess I'm getting *more* confused about all of this :( I won't claim to understand the whole eco-system: just enough to suffice for my needs. > I use up to 3 hardware MIDI ports for my compositions along with Rosegarden > (which is ALSA MIDI only). Up to now I've been getting along quite well with > this, as all the other software I use can work with ALSA. My experience of a2jmidid (or indeed the -X switch on modern Jack1) is flawless: I no longer worry about what type of port MIDI ports are: be they ALSA hardware MIDI, FFADO MIDI, or "virtual" JACK MIDI, they can all be connected to eachother. That's a +1 for UX IMO. > While I fully appreciate the issues around supporting both forms I'm getting a > bit concerned by the push towards a JACK only system. >From a techie-POV, Jack audio & MIDI is sample accurate: it stays in sync, and no matter how often its bounced between programs, the events will stay true in timing. The same can not be said for ALSA MIDI, which involves processing from a different thread, buffering, etc. That's my experience with JACK MIDI, -Harry -- www.openavproductions.com From csanchezgs at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 17:44:40 2014 From: csanchezgs at gmail.com (Carlos sanchiavedraz) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 19:44:40 +0200 Subject: [LAU] JACKDUB In-Reply-To: <59703.86.107.254.57.1407925397.squirrel@boosthardware.com> References: <59703.86.107.254.57.1407925397.squirrel@boosthardware.com> Message-ID: 2014-08-13 12:23 GMT+02:00 Patrick Shirkey : > Hi, > > Some of you might be interested in a new project I have been working on: > > http://jackdub.channellinux.com/ > > It is a fully realtime automated music playback system built with various > FLOSS tools. The system runs entirely in the cloud and doesn't even have a > sound card. > > It's a work in progress so YMMV... > > > > Cheers > > -- > Patrick Shirkey > Boost Hardware Ltd > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > Hi Patrick. Can't hear any sound from the stream. I'm interested because it's Audio+Floss+Web. Could you explain a bit more what is the project about? It says in the web "realtime song generator". -- C. sanchiavedraZ: * NEW / NUEVO: www.sanchiavedraZ.com * Musix GNU+Linux: www.musix.es -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From csanchezgs at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 17:49:34 2014 From: csanchezgs at gmail.com (Carlos sanchiavedraz) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 19:49:34 +0200 Subject: [LAU] sound fonts/patch files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2014-08-13 18:27 GMT+02:00 LM : > I'm trying to find some sound fonts/patch file sets to use with > programs like Timidity and to figure out what licenses they're > available under. Of course, there's the freepats collection ( > http://freepats.zenvoid.org/ ). freepats-20060219.tar.bz2 has GNU > GPLv2 license. Am also looking for other collections with Free > licenses. I ran across timidity_tiny at > http://edge.beemulated.net/utils/index.php which looks really > interesting because it's lightweight. However, was unable to find a > license with it. Tracked earlier copies of the files down to > KDEMultimedia's kmidi which says the license on kmidi is GPLv2 or > later. With further checking, I found out many of the files were from > timidity_wow_samples.zip, timidity_drums_samples.zip, > timidity_base_samples.zip. One sample was from propats 3 collection. > Not finding much on licensing for any of those files. Does anyone > have suggestions for lightweight (or other) instrument > collections/patch files/soundfonts with Free licenses? Thanks. > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > Musescore has a very lightweight additional package with a 6Mb soundfont, it's GM: $ apt-cache show musescore-soundfont-gm Package: musescore-soundfont-gm [...] Description-en: Small GM SoundFont for MuseScore (TimGM6mb) This is a GM SoundFont, for use with any modern MIDI synthesiser: hardware (like the emu10k1 sound card), or software (like FluidSynth). . This package provides the larger GM sound set, without the Roland Sound Canvas extensions. Homepage: http://www.musescore.org/ -- C. sanchiavedraZ: * NEW / NUEVO: www.sanchiavedraZ.com * Musix GNU+Linux: www.musix.es -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From csanchezgs at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 17:57:54 2014 From: csanchezgs at gmail.com (Carlos sanchiavedraz) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 19:57:54 +0200 Subject: [LAU] tagging sample libraries: tmsu In-Reply-To: <20140814005209.57b3e8fa@gmail.com> References: <20140814005209.57b3e8fa@gmail.com> Message-ID: 2014-08-14 0:52 GMT+02:00 renato : > Hi, since I've seen this problem mentioned here before, I just wanted to > give a heads up regarding this program I've recently discovered, tmsu. > It lets you tag files, and you can later use these tags in any program, > since it will create a virtual filesystem (using fuse), with directories > for tags and queries (like "show me all field recordings of stormy > weather done in 2013", provided of course you tagged the files with the > relevant information), all on the fly (to create a query you just > create a directory). It seems very nice for the task, very KISS, though > I have just played shortly with it > > http://tmsu.org/ > > have fun, > renato > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > Really interesting. I've always had an idea about implementing some semi-universal way of tagging things, mainly audio stuff, samples, and projects. But platforms for this are heavy on resources and databases for queries and indexes, and usually are specific for a Desktop Environment (i.e. Beagle, Nepomuk/Strigi). Bookmarked, thanks. -- C. sanchiavedraZ: * NEW / NUEVO: www.sanchiavedraZ.com * Musix GNU+Linux: www.musix.es -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fons at linuxaudio.org Fri Sep 26 19:21:13 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 19:21:13 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140926192113.GA434@linuxaudio.org> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:50:06AM -0400, Paul Davis wrote: > the developers of jack2 have so far not bothered to integrate the "shared" > repository for jack tools into their source code. And they are still using the completely broken resampling code from alsa_in/out wherever this function is needed. At my new work place (the research center of a very big corporation) I'm currently trying to push jack2 on Windows as a solution for some of the problems we're facing. We've been doing some tests this week, and the showstopper is the really abysimal performance of all of the jack2 tools that depend on resampling. If the jack2 devs don't fix this and do it very soon, then we will - by porting zita-ajbridge (where the 'a' will stand for ASIO) and zita-njbridge to Windows. And probably also by rewriting the the backend and make it use ASIO directly instead of going through Portaudio. Why on earth should a system such as Jack support anything but ASIO ? Tschuss, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Fri Sep 26 19:58:06 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:58:06 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <20140926192113.GA434@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926192113.GA434@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 3:21 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > And probably also by > rewriting the the backend and make it use ASIO directly > instead of going through Portaudio. Why on earth should > a system such as Jack support anything but ASIO ? > portaudio is significantly easier to implement support for. this seems to be the main reason it is used. i am working with another well known audio software company and when faced with implementing windows support as part of their own cross-platform efforts, they decided to use portaudio for windows rather than try to code ASIO support directly (they had already tamed coreaudio to their satisfaction). it must be possible, but apparently aspects of it appear daunting. in addition to ASIO, "modern" native windows APIs (WaveRT and WDM) are capable of providing the same low latency path that ASIO does. i don't know how many h/w makers actually provide drivers usable with these newer APIs, though. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From len at ovenwerks.net Fri Sep 26 21:09:14 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 14:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <20140926183233.1c8a2009@debian> References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926171218.18e87c26@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926183233.1c8a2009@debian> Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Sep 2014, Will Godfrey wrote: > I confess I'm getting *more* confused about all of this :( > > I use up to 3 hardware MIDI ports for my compositions along with Rosegarden > (which is ALSA MIDI only). Up to now I've been getting along quite well with > this, as all the other software I use can work with ALSA. > > While I fully appreciate the issues around supporting both forms I'm getting a > bit concerned by the push towards a JACK only system. As with audio, where the SW designer can support either ALSA, pulse or Jack for inputs or outputs, the SW designer can include either or both ALSA and/or Jack MIDI. a2jmidi could be useful to you as well as it would allow you to connect jack MIDI only SW to your ALSA MIDI only SW. True, you would have to run a jack server. From the SW designer's POV, jack provides a more stable MIDI even on systems that do not have the OS tweaked for ALSA MIDI. So why would they design for something more problematic? My personal experience (which is very small BTW) has been that the Jack MIDI API is much easier to use as well. The only downside (which I have not yet to run into) is that jack is limited in the size of the MIDI event it can deal with. An event would include a sysex and in jack this would be expected to be completed in one period (along with all audio processing too). -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From harryhaaren at gmail.com Fri Sep 26 21:13:28 2014 From: harryhaaren at gmail.com (Harry van Haaren) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 22:13:28 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926171218.18e87c26@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926183233.1c8a2009@debian> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > The only downside (which I have not yet to run into) > is that jack is limited in the size of the MIDI event it can deal with The ALSA "Seq" API allows scheduling of notes (including of note-off events) and much more. That functionality is not available in the JACK API, and hence must be implemented by each client. Side note: this is one reason why QTractor doesn't use JACK MIDI: it is currently built around the ALSA Seq API, so porting to JACK MIDI is a large task: its not just about sending standard 3-byte messages around using a different call :/ Cheers, -Harry -- www.openavproductions.com From len at ovenwerks.net Fri Sep 26 21:15:32 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 14:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi Message-ID: On Fri, 26 Sep 2014, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > Alles klar. Well, mostly. I guess that alsa_midi only makes sense > when alsa is used as a backend, so I don't quite see why it is a server > option instead of a backend option. Anyway, using the -X alsa_midi as > server option works. That is not true at all, Audio and MIDI are separate and so it is very possible (even likely) that the backend for audio may not be relevant to MIDI. MIDI is handled by ALSA, but is not treated as a part of the same audio interface as the sound that goes with it. So the user who has a FW audio IF with no MIDI would not be able to use a USB MIDI along with it if this was in the backend only. Along the same lines is the FW user who does have MIDI in their FW IF wants to use a lot of the older SW that creates ALSA MIDI ports they are again stuck if it is only available in the ALSA back end. The only thing I would like to see different in a2jmidi is the naming. (I am not sure how jack1 works) a2j opens as one client called a2j that when expanded has the alsa client name followed by the actual port name. This is hard to read and use. It is also confusing to new users who ask where the port is just because a2j has not been expanded. I would guess the best thing (from a user POV) would be for a2j to open a new jack client for each ALSA client with the ALSA name. I am not sure what other consequences this would have though :) -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From murks at tuxfamily.org Fri Sep 26 21:25:43 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 23:25:43 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926171218.18e87c26@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140926232543.20118759@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:36:38 -0400 Paul Davis wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:12 AM, Philipp ?berbacher > wrote: > > > Alles klar. Well, mostly. I guess that alsa_midi only makes sense > > when alsa is used as a backend, so I don't quite see why it is a > > server option instead of a backend option. > > > No, this is what is so lovely about it. You can now use a FFADO > backend *and* -X alsa_midi and get full bridging to ALSA MIDI just as > you would do with a2jmidid. This was impossible with the old > backend-based "seq" and "raw" options. This lets you interface with > ALSA-only MIDI apps even when using FFADO or other JACK backends such > as netjack. Ah, I think I get it now. Even though it's not relevant for my current situation it sounds nice indeed. Thanks. From fons at linuxaudio.org Fri Sep 26 21:25:58 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 21:25:58 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926171218.18e87c26@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926183233.1c8a2009@debian> Message-ID: <20140926212558.GB434@linuxaudio.org> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:13:28PM +0100, Harry van Haaren wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Len Ovens wrote: > > The only downside (which I have not yet to run into) > > is that jack is limited in the size of the MIDI event it can deal with > The ALSA "Seq" API allows scheduling of notes (including of note-off > events) and much more. That functionality is not available in the JACK > API, and hence must be implemented by each client. This is not entirely true. Jack's MIDI API does schedule events, but only within the current period. Anything that should happen later has to be remembered by the application, but this is not really rocket science. Any non-trivial app using MIDI is likely to maintain its own ordered list of events anyway. Standard data structures available from many libraries are available to do this if you don't want to write your own. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From fons at linuxaudio.org Fri Sep 26 21:31:15 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 21:31:15 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140925225659.5fb178d1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926131748.27a854a1@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926192113.GA434@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <20140926213115.GC434@linuxaudio.org> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 03:58:06PM -0400, Paul Davis wrote: > portaudio is significantly easier to implement support for. this seems to > be the main reason it is used. i am working with another well known audio > software company and when faced with implementing windows support as part > of their own cross-platform efforts, they decided to use portaudio for > windows rather than try to code ASIO support directly (they had already > tamed coreaudio to their satisfaction). it must be possible, but apparently > aspects of it appear daunting. If Portaudio handles ASIO as it should be done, then it must contain all the code required to do this. So all that is needed is to re-use that while removing whatever unnecessary layers put on top of it. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From jeb at ponderworthy.com Fri Sep 26 21:42:40 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E Brickman) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 21:42:40 +0000 Subject: [LAU] How-to for simple recording for 3.5 hours? Message-ID: Last Sunday I set up my laptop for a 3.5-hour recording session, Audacity crashed after 2.5 hours. Anyone know why this might have occurred, what to do about it, whether Audacity is in fact best for simple recording? Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | http://ponderworthy.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brouits at free.fr Fri Sep 26 21:48:11 2014 From: brouits at free.fr (=?windows-1252?Q?Beno=EEt_Rouits?=) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 23:48:11 +0200 Subject: [LAU] How-to for simple recording for 3.5 hours? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5425DF1B.8010804@free.fr> Le 26/09/2014 23:42, Jonathan E Brickman a ?crit : > Last Sunday I set up my laptop for a 3.5-hour recording session, > Audacity crashed after 2.5 hours. Anyone know why this might have > occurred, what to do about it, whether Audacity is in fact best for > simple recording? > > Jonathan E. Brickman > Ponderworthy Music | jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | > http://ponderworthy.com > Hello, If you are recording stereo only, timemachine (gtk, jack) or qjackrcd (qt, jack) might be an option since they write a single wave on disk on the fly and are simple. Maybe you can try ecasound for multitrack. But i confess i didn't try them for 3.5 hours actually. HTH, - Ben From fons at linuxaudio.org Fri Sep 26 21:48:55 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 21:48:55 +0000 Subject: [LAU] How-to for simple recording for 3.5 hours? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140926214855.GD434@linuxaudio.org> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 09:42:40PM +0000, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > Last Sunday I set up my laptop for a 3.5-hour recording session, Audacity crashed after 2.5 hours. Anyone know why this might have occurred, what to do about it, whether Audacity is in fact best for simple recording? Timemachine may fit the bill. I once used it to record the proceedings of a conference. Started it at 9:30 and let it run unsupervised until 18:00 or so. It did the job. -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Fri Sep 26 22:13:53 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 23:13:53 +0100 Subject: [LAU] How-to for simple recording for 3.5 hours? In-Reply-To: <20140926214855.GD434@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140926214855.GD434@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <20140926231353.13dd983f@debian> On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 21:48:55 +0000 Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 09:42:40PM +0000, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > > > Last Sunday I set up my laptop for a 3.5-hour recording session, Audacity crashed after 2.5 hours. Anyone know why this might have occurred, what to do about it, whether Audacity is in fact best for simple recording? > > Timemachine may fit the bill. I once used it to record the proceedings of > a conference. Started it at 9:30 and let it run unsupervised until 18:00 > or so. It did the job. Another vote for Timemachine. I've not used it for very long runs, but found it very lightweight, reliable and easy to use when transferring analogue tapes into the computer. Once done I then used Audacity to find and cut to the track boundaries. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From willgodfrey at musically.me.uk Fri Sep 26 22:17:20 2014 From: willgodfrey at musically.me.uk (Will Godfrey) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 23:17:20 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 14:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Len Ovens wrote: > The only thing I would like to see different in a2jmidi is the naming. (I am > not sure how jack1 works) a2j opens as one client called a2j that when expanded > has the alsa client name followed by the actual port name. This is hard to read > and use. It is also confusing to new users who ask where the port is just > because a2j has not been expanded. I would guess the best thing (from a user > POV) would be for a2j to open a new jack client for each ALSA client with the > ALSA name. I am not sure what other consequences this would have though :) ^ this ^ The existing arrangement makes it far from clear what the connections are. -- Will J Godfrey http://www.musically.me.uk Say you have a poem and I have a tune. Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song. From david at kenpro.com.au Fri Sep 26 23:08:04 2014 From: david at kenpro.com.au (David) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 09:08:04 +1000 Subject: [LAU] How-to for simple recording for 3.5 hours? In-Reply-To: <20140926231353.13dd983f@debian> References: <20140926214855.GD434@linuxaudio.org> <20140926231353.13dd983f@debian> Message-ID: <5425F1D4.9030000@kenpro.com.au> sox works a treat, in my experience On 27/09/14 08:13, Will Godfrey wrote: > On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 21:48:55 +0000 > Fons Adriaensen wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 09:42:40PM +0000, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: >> >>> Last Sunday I set up my laptop for a 3.5-hour recording session, Audacity crashed after 2.5 hours. Anyone know why this might have occurred, what to do about it, whether Audacity is in fact best for simple recording? >> Timemachine may fit the bill. I once used it to record the proceedings of >> a conference. Started it at 9:30 and let it run unsupervised until 18:00 >> or so. It did the job. > Another vote for Timemachine. I've not used it for very long runs, but found it > very lightweight, reliable and easy to use when transferring analogue tapes > into the computer. Once done I then used Audacity to find and cut to the track > boundaries. > -- David McQuire 0418 310312 From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Fri Sep 26 23:45:44 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 19:45:44 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> References: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 6:17 PM, Will Godfrey wrote: > I would guess the best thing (from a user > > POV) would be for a2j to open a new jack client for each ALSA client > with the > > ALSA name. I am not sure what other consequences this would have though > :) > > ^ this ^ > > The existing arrangement makes it far from clear what the connections are. > the alsa_midi internal client (based on a2jmidi doesn't change this design. the correct way to deal with this is to use the pretty-name metadata for the ports, then you can name them however you wish. for example, here is a qjackctl screenshot after I've a script that calls jack_property to set pretty-name values for my RME device: http://community.ardour.org/files/portprettynames.png (note the complete absence of "system", "capture" and "playback" in the names) of course, not much at all uses the pretty-name metadata yet, but this is definitely the right way for us all to move forward. the screenshot comes from a version of qjackctl that isn't even in svn yet :( -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From termtech at rogers.com Sat Sep 27 03:30:00 2014 From: termtech at rogers.com (Tim E. Real) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 23:30 -0400 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> Message-ID: <6790070.jaeIi7v0nz@col-desktop> On September 26, 2014 07:45:44 PM Paul Davis wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 6:17 PM, Will Godfrey > > wrote: > > I would guess the best thing (from a user > > > > > POV) would be for a2j to open a new jack client for each ALSA client > > > > with the > > > > > ALSA name. I am not sure what other consequences this would have though > > : > > :) > > > > ^ this ^ > > > > The existing arrangement makes it far from clear what the connections are. > > the alsa_midi internal client (based on a2jmidi doesn't change this design. > > the correct way to deal with this is to use the pretty-name metadata for > the ports, then you can name them however you wish. for example, here is a > qjackctl screenshot after I've a script that calls jack_property to set > pretty-name values for my RME device: > > http://community.ardour.org/files/portprettynames.png > > (note the complete absence of "system", "capture" and "playback" in the > names) > > of course, not much at all uses the pretty-name metadata yet, but this is > definitely the right way for us all to move forward. the screenshot comes > from a version of qjackctl that isn't even in svn yet :( I don't have the latest Jack with metadata. Can you tell me what kind of data exists now? If I ask a hardware port for its metadata, will I see useful data like port names? Have any conventions been established as to what to call our properties, port naming formats, tags etc? Thanks for the valuable updated info in these threads! Tim. From letz at grame.fr Sat Sep 27 06:55:06 2014 From: letz at grame.fr (=?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane_Letz?=) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 08:55:06 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9DEA7A95-AC4C-4183-B301-248549F615A0@grame.fr> Le 26 sept. 2014 ? 23:42, linux-audio-user-request at lists.linuxaudio.org a ?crit : > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 19:21:13 +0000 > From: Fons Adriaensen > To: Paul Davis > Cc: linux-audio-user , Philipp > ?berbacher > Subject: Re: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi > Message-ID: <20140926192113.GA434 at linuxaudio.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 10:50:06AM -0400, Paul Davis wrote: > >> the developers of jack2 have so far not bothered to integrate the "shared" >> repository for jack tools into their source code. > > And they are still using the completely broken resampling code > from alsa_in/out wherever this function is needed. > > At my new work place (the research center of a very big > corporation) I'm currently trying to push jack2 on Windows > as a solution for some of the problems we're facing. > We've been doing some tests this week, and the showstopper > is the really abysimal performance of all of the jack2 tools > that depend on resampling. > > If the jack2 devs don't fix this and do it very soon, then > we will - by porting zita-ajbridge (where the 'a' will stand > for ASIO) and zita-njbridge to Windows. And probably also by > rewriting the the backend and make it use ASIO directly > instead of going through Portaudio. Why on earth should > a system such as Jack support anything but ASIO ? > > Tschuss, > Hi Fons, The "developers of jack2" (?) don't have time right now to invest for this resampling code rewrite, but will be very interested to zita-ajbridge working. Concerning direct ASIO backend support, attached is some files I started to write some months ago, taking the LinuxSampler code base as a starting point. But the code is absolutely not ready as has even not been compiled?. Would "the research center of a very big, corporation" be ready to put some money to have theses development be accelerated ? (in any case, I can at least compile any new code base on the Windows development machine we have, and publish new Windows binaries, and probably do the same on OSX). St?phane -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: asio.zip Type: application/zip Size: 20130 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tito.01beta at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 07:56:14 2014 From: tito.01beta at gmail.com (Tito Latini) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 09:56:14 +0200 Subject: [LAU] How-to for simple recording for 3.5 hours? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140927075614.GA1790@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 09:42:40PM +0000, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > Last Sunday I set up my laptop for a 3.5-hour recording session, Audacity crashed after 2.5 hours. Anyone know why this might have occurred, what to do about it, whether Audacity is in fact best for simple recording? 2.5 hours, 44.1KHz, and 4 bytes for sample (i.e. floating point) require about 1.55G of disk space for 1 channel. (2.17G for 3.5h). Is there enough space on your temporary directory? (the default is /var/tmp/audacity-root). From murks at tuxfamily.org Sat Sep 27 08:10:58 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:10:58 +0200 Subject: [LAU] How-to for simple recording for 3.5 hours? In-Reply-To: <20140927075614.GA1790@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> References: <20140927075614.GA1790@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> Message-ID: <20140927101058.7acc52d4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Sat, 27 Sep 2014 09:56:14 +0200 Tito Latini wrote: > On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 09:42:40PM +0000, Jonathan E Brickman wrote: > > Last Sunday I set up my laptop for a 3.5-hour recording session, > > Audacity crashed after 2.5 hours. Anyone know why this might have > > occurred, what to do about it, whether Audacity is in fact best for > > simple recording? > > 2.5 hours, 44.1KHz, and 4 bytes for sample (i.e. floating point) > require about 1.55G of disk space for 1 channel. (2.17G for 3.5h). > > Is there enough space on your temporary directory? > (the default is /var/tmp/audacity-root). Maybe the WAV file size limit was reached? Wasn't that around 4GB? WAV64 or somesuch is more sensible for long recording sessions. Regards, Philipp From pshirkey at boosthardware.com Sat Sep 27 09:44:56 2014 From: pshirkey at boosthardware.com (Patrick Shirkey) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 19:44:56 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LAU] JACKDUB In-Reply-To: References: <59703.86.107.254.57.1407925397.squirrel@boosthardware.com> Message-ID: <65466.86.105.94.79.1411811096.squirrel@boosthardware.com> On Sat, September 27, 2014 3:44 am, Carlos sanchiavedraz wrote: > 2014-08-13 12:23 GMT+02:00 Patrick Shirkey : > >> Hi, >> >> Some of you might be interested in a new project I have been working on: >> >> http://jackdub.channellinux.com/ >> >> It is a fully realtime automated music playback system built with >> various >> FLOSS tools. The system runs entirely in the cloud and doesn't even have >> a >> sound card. >> >> It's a work in progress so YMMV... >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> -- >> Patrick Shirkey >> Boost Hardware Ltd >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux-audio-user mailing list >> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org >> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user >> > > Hi Patrick. > > Can't hear any sound from the stream. I'm interested because it's > Audio+Floss+Web. Could you explain a bit more what is the project about? > It > says in the web "realtime song generator". > It's running now. I'll try to keep it up over the weekend. I'm still hunting down the cause of various bugs that kill the stream so I have to kick it over manually occasionally. It's a system to generate music in realtime using midi files/samples and various linux/open source tools. It's not a synth system although I have plans for adding in realtime synthesis to the mix when I get some more time. It's a combination of musical toy for my own entertainment and a long term project to build out a fully automated music production system. Some people spend their money on going to a studio/band room with their mates. I decided to put everything directly on the web. -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd From tito.01beta at gmail.com Sat Sep 27 13:05:45 2014 From: tito.01beta at gmail.com (Tito Latini) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 15:05:45 +0200 Subject: [LAU] How-to for simple recording for 3.5 hours? In-Reply-To: <20140927101058.7acc52d4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> References: <20140927075614.GA1790@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> <20140927101058.7acc52d4@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> Message-ID: <20140927130545.GA1728@rhk.homenet.telecomitalia.it> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 10:10:58AM +0200, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > Maybe the WAV file size limit was reached? Wasn't that around 4GB? > WAV64 or somesuch is more sensible for long recording sessions. 4GB is the max-file-size in some file systems (fat32 is famous). I don't think it is the case because Audacity writes multiple BlockFile objects [1] in the temporary directory. [1] https://code.google.com/p/audacity/source/browse/audacity-src/trunk/src/DirManager.cpp From marc at hacklava.net Sat Sep 27 13:37:06 2014 From: marc at hacklava.net (Marc =?UTF-8?B?TGF2YWxsw6ll?=) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 09:37:06 -0400 Subject: [LAU] How-to for simple recording for 3.5 hours? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140927093706.240aa2e1@telecino> Hi Jonathan. I used QARecord from the ALSA modular suite: http://alsamodular.sourceforge.net/ It works with ALSA or Jack. in mono or multichannel. It splits the recording in 2Gb files (can be adjusted). The interface is simple, with VU meters. For command line situations, there's arecord (man arecord). It can record multichannel sessions in separate mono files, and limit the recording time. -- Marc Fri, 26 Sep 2014 21:42:40 +0000, Jonathan E Brickman wrote : > Last Sunday I set up my laptop for a 3.5-hour recording session, > Audacity crashed after 2.5 hours. Anyone know why this might have > occurred, what to do about it, whether Audacity is in fact best for > simple recording? > > > Jonathan E. Brickman > Ponderworthy Music | > jeb at ponderworthy.com | (785)233-9977 | > http://ponderworthy.com From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Sat Sep 27 14:05:46 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 10:05:46 -0400 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <6790070.jaeIi7v0nz@col-desktop> References: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> <6790070.jaeIi7v0nz@col-desktop> Message-ID: On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Tim E. Real wrote: > m a version of qjackctl that isn't even in svn yet :( > > I don't have the latest Jack with metadata. > > Can you tell me what kind of data exists now? > Malformed question. The metadata API exists for users (or systems) to add arbitrary data. So no data "exists now". > If I ask a hardware port for its metadata, will I see useful data > like port names? > Depends on whether any was added. I am probably the only person worldwide to have added pretty-name data, and I'm the only person right now to have a qjackctl hacked to display them. > Have any conventions been established as to what to call our properties, > port naming formats, tags etc? > This was all discussed on the jack-devel mailing list last year. (1) read the output of man jack_property (2) then add in the fact that well known metadata "keys" were discussed there, and the idea is for well-known ones to be URIs that resolve to actual URLs where someone could actually read a description of what the data is. So for example, we did decide upon http://jackaudio.org/metadata/* as an "official" namespace, and there was wide support for http://jackaudio.org/metadata/pretty-name and http://jackaudio.org/metadata/role (although the 2nd one needs a vocabulary which is not currently defined). Unfortunately when we "lost" the drupal jackaudio site due to hacking earlier this year, we lost the metadata/ part of the website, so the URIs do not function as URLs right now. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Sat Sep 27 14:19:10 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 16:19:10 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> <6790070.jaeIi7v0nz@col-desktop> Message-ID: <1411827550.14916.3.camel@rocketmail.com> Perhaps OT, perhaps not. [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ amidi -l Dir Device Name IO hw:0,0 HDSPMx579bcc MIDI 1 IO hw:1,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI IO hw:2,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI IO hw:3,0,0 nanoKONTROL MIDI 1 IO hw:4,0,0 USB Device 0x170b:0x11 MIDI 1 Currently I need to manually connect the TerraTec cards MIDI ports. Is there a way to give both cards an unique name? JFTR the TerraTec cards have different IRQs. It would be comfortable if e.g. aj-snapshot could distinguish both cards. From janina at rednote.net Sat Sep 27 15:46:15 2014 From: janina at rednote.net (Janina Sajka) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 11:46:15 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Jack from CLI [Was: mplayer no go with snd-hdsp] In-Reply-To: <541949A8.2040009@vegri.net> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <541949A8.2040009@vegri.net> Message-ID: <20140927154615.GA11428@opera.rednote.net> Hi, All: Thanks to everyone who responded suggesting I start using jack to solve my problem with mplayer and my Multiface. Trying to start jacd from the command line as root I fail for lack of an X-server. Starting as my ordinary user I get: no message buffer overruns JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 20 audio_reservation_init Acquire audio card Audio8 creating alsa driver ... hw:8|hw:8|256|2|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit configuring for 48000Hz, period = 256 frames (5.3 ms), buffer = 2 periods ALSA: final selected sample format for capture: 32bit integer little-endian ALSA: use 2 periods for capture ALSA: final selected sample format for playback: 32bit integer little-endian ALSA: use 2 periods for playback Using port names patch v0.1 (07.04.2010) Trying to load portnames from /home/janina/.config/jack/cards/Hammerfall DSP.ss.ports.in Trying to load portnames from /home/janina/.config/jack/cards/Hammerfall DSP.ports.in Trying to load portnames from /etc/jack/cards/Hammerfall DSP.ss.ports.in Trying to load portnames from /etc/jack/cards/Hammerfall DSP.ports.in Trying to load portnames from /home/janina/.config/jack/cards/Hammerfall DSP.ss.ports.out Trying to load portnames from /home/janina/.config/jack/cards/Hammerfall DSP.ports.out Trying to load portnames from /etc/jack/cards/Hammerfall DSP.ss.ports.out Trying to load portnames from /etc/jack/cards/Hammerfall DSP.ports.out And, things just sit there seemingly forever. All suggestions much appreciated. Please note I can't use gui tools as none are Orca friendly, afaik. Janina Giso Grimm writes: > On 09/17/2014 10:15 AM, Janina Sajka wrote: > > But, I can't use mplayer. Am I the only one? Anyone else tried mplayer > > on the Multiface? > > I use mplayer with the jack backend on a RME hdsp card without problems. > I can reproduce the problem you describe with the alsa backend. > > -- Giso > > > > > > > For cli tools mplayer gives me the ability to pause, or move backwards > > and forwards through the audio file. This is important to me because I > > learn music these days by ear. > > > > I know one can do this in the gui, but as a blind user the Linux gui > > audio apps aren't particularly friendly in my experience. Besides, it's > > so terribly simple, if rather imprecise, to use spacebar, left-arrow, > > and right-arrow. > > > > The error I get: > > > > Opening audio decoder: [pcm] Uncompressed PCM audio decoder > > AUDIO: 48000 Hz, 2 ch, s16le, 1536.0 kbit/100.00% (ratio: > > 192000->192000) > > Selected audio codec: [pcm] afm: pcm (Uncompressed PCM) > > ========================================================================== > > [AO_ALSA] alsa-lib: pcm_hw.c:327:(snd_pcm_hw_hw_params) > > SNDRV_PCM_IOCTL_HW_PARAMS failed (-16): Device or resource busy > > [AO_ALSA] Unable to set hw-parameters: Device or resource busy > > Failed to initialize audio driver 'alsa:device=plughw=8.0' > > Could not open/initialize audio device -> no sound. > > Audio: no sound > > Video: no video > > > > > > Exiting... (End of file) > > > > Meanwhile, aplay and ecaplay have no problems. So, I thought I should > > ask if anyone else has experienced this before reporting to mplayer > > devs. > > > > TIA > > > > Janina > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -- Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 sip:janina at asterisk.rednote.net Email: janina at rednote.net Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/ From fons at linuxaudio.org Sat Sep 27 16:50:12 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 16:50:12 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Jack from CLI [Was: mplayer no go with snd-hdsp] In-Reply-To: <20140927154615.GA11428@opera.rednote.net> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <541949A8.2040009@vegri.net> <20140927154615.GA11428@opera.rednote.net> Message-ID: <20140927165012.GA23713@linuxaudio.org> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 11:46:15AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > Trying to start jacd from the command line as root I fail for lack of an > X-server. Unlikely, Jack doesn't need X. But you shouldn't run it as root. > Starting as my ordinary user I get: What options do you use ? You'll need at least something like jackd -d alsa -d hw:NNNNNN where NNNNNN is the name of the soundcard to use. You can find out the name by running aplay -l (lower case L) The names you can use are those directly following the card number, you should find your Multiface in that list. You could also use jackd -d alsa -d hw:X,0 where X is the card number. Jack has many more options, use jackd --help to see them. > And, things just sit there seemingly forever. Which very probably means that all is OK. Remember that Jack is a server. You keep it running and it will do its work. Switch to another terminal for all other commands. IIRC you wanted to use mplayer. To make it use Jack, do mplayer -ao jack Audio output should appear at line outs 1 and 2. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From rncbc at rncbc.org Sat Sep 27 17:25:21 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:25:21 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> Message-ID: <5426F301.6070308@rncbc.org> On 09/27/2014 12:45 AM, Paul Davis wrote: > > the correct way to deal with this is to use the pretty-name metadata for > the ports, then you can name them however you wish. for example, here is > a qjackctl screenshot after I've a script that calls jack_property to > set pretty-name values for my RME device: > > http://community.ardour.org/files/portprettynames.png > > (note the complete absence of "system", "capture" and "playback" in the > names) > > of course, not much at all uses the pretty-name metadata yet, but this > is definitely the right way for us all to move forward. the screenshot > comes from a version of qjackctl that isn't even in svn yet :( > qjackctl has an client/port aliases scheme and renaming of its own, on a preset basis, for almost a decade now. that said, it would be awesome to merge your hack Paul. i can vaguely remember something about that from you a year ago or so, but i also remember you also recalled and scrapped it the next day, so nothing was patched yet :( is there any plans for (re)posting the "qjackctl pretty-name metadata patch" or whatever it's called? i'd be glad to review and possibly integrate with the old client/port aliases and renaming option. cheers -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc at rncbc.org From janina at rednote.net Sat Sep 27 17:35:52 2014 From: janina at rednote.net (Janina Sajka) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 13:35:52 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Jack from CLI [Was: mplayer no go with snd-hdsp] In-Reply-To: <20140927165012.GA23713@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <541949A8.2040009@vegri.net> <20140927154615.GA11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140927165012.GA23713@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <20140927173552.GC11428@opera.rednote.net> Hi, thanks for the quick help response. Comments in line below. Fons Adriaensen writes: > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 11:46:15AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > > > Trying to start jacd from the command line as root I fail for lack of an > > X-server. > > Unlikely, Jack doesn't need X. But you shouldn't run it as root. Glad to hear. I have no desire to run as root, just that some on line docs I found seemed to suggest running as root. > > > Starting as my ordinary user I get: > > What options do you use ? You'll need at least something like > > jackd -d alsa -d hw:NNNNNN > Tried several. Currently: jackd --sync -dalsa -dhw:8 hw:8 is definitely the Multiface. aplay -D plughw:8 plays there just fine. > where NNNNNN is the name of the soundcard to use. > > You can find out the name by running > > aplay -l > > (lower case L) The names you can use are those directly > following the card number, you should find your Multiface > in that list. > > You could also use > > jackd -d alsa -d hw:X,0 > > where X is the card number. > > Jack has many more options, use > > jackd --help > > to see them. > > > And, things just sit there seemingly forever. > > Which very probably means that all is OK. Remember that Jack is > a server. You keep it running and it will do its work. Switch to > another terminal for all other commands. > > IIRC you wanted to use mplayer. To make it use Jack, do > > mplayer -ao jack Strangely, this gives me: No such audio driver 'jack' Could not open/initialize audio device -> no sound. This is stock rpmfusion build of mplayer 1.1 for Fedora 20 (x86_64). I'm assuming they include jack support in their build? > > Audio output should appear at line outs 1 and 2. Yes, that's were aplay sends it. tia Janina > > Ciao, > > -- > FA > > A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. > It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris > and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) > > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user -- Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 sip:janina at asterisk.rednote.net Email: janina at rednote.net Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Protocols & Formats http://www.w3.org/wai/pf Indie UI http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/ From fons at linuxaudio.org Sat Sep 27 17:57:11 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 17:57:11 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Jack from CLI [Was: mplayer no go with snd-hdsp] In-Reply-To: <20140927173552.GC11428@opera.rednote.net> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <541949A8.2040009@vegri.net> <20140927154615.GA11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140927165012.GA23713@linuxaudio.org> <20140927173552.GC11428@opera.rednote.net> Message-ID: <20140927175711.GB23713@linuxaudio.org> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 01:35:52PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > thanks for the quick help response. Comments in line below. > > Fons Adriaensen writes: > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 11:46:15AM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > > > > > Trying to start jacd from the command line as root I fail for lack of an > > > X-server. > > > > Unlikely, Jack doesn't need X. But you shouldn't run it as root. > Glad to hear. I have no desire to run as root, just that some on line docs > I found seemed to suggest running as root. > > > > > > Starting as my ordinary user I get: > > > > What options do you use ? You'll need at least something like > > > > jackd -d alsa -d hw:NNNNNN > > > Tried several. Currently: > jackd --sync -dalsa -dhw:8 > > hw:8 is definitely the Multiface. aplay -D plughw:8 plays there just > fine. After having started Jack, in another terminal, run jack_lsp which should produce a list of Jack ports for your Multiface. I you have that it means Jack is definitely running OK. > > mplayer -ao jack > > Strangely, this gives me: > No such audio driver 'jack' > Could not open/initialize audio device -> no sound. > > This is stock rpmfusion build of mplayer 1.1 for Fedora 20 (x86_64). I'm assuming > they include jack support in their build? I begin to suspect they don't... There is another solution, copy the following to a file called .asoundrc in your home directory: pcm.!default { type plug slave { pcm "jack" } } pcm.jack { type jack playback_ports { 0 system:playback_1 1 system:playback_2 } capture_ports { 0 system:capture_1 1 system:capture_2 } } ctl.mixer0 { type hw card 0 } Then start mplayer without the -ao jack. It should then use the default ALSA card which we redefined to be a virtual one connecting to Jack. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From janina at rednote.net Sat Sep 27 18:31:06 2014 From: janina at rednote.net (Janina Sajka) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 14:31:06 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Jack from CLI [Was: mplayer no go with snd-hdsp] In-Reply-To: <20140927175711.GB23713@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <541949A8.2040009@vegri.net> <20140927154615.GA11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140927165012.GA23713@linuxaudio.org> <20140927173552.GC11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140927175711.GB23713@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <20140927183106.GD11428@opera.rednote.net> Fons Adriaensen writes: > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 01:35:52PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > > > > Starting as my ordinary user I get: > > > > > > What options do you use ? You'll need at least something like > > > > > > jackd -d alsa -d hw:NNNNNN > > > > > Tried several. Currently: > > jackd --sync -dalsa -dhw:8 > > > > hw:8 is definitely the Multiface. aplay -D plughw:8 plays there just > > fine. > > After having started Jack, in another terminal, run > > jack_lsp > > which should produce a list of Jack ports for your Multiface. Unfortunately it doesn't. It produces no output, and doesn't return. I have to Ctrl-C to get the prompt back. So, I presume this means jack isn't starting correctly? Janina From jonetsu at teksavvy.com Sat Sep 27 19:41:10 2014 From: jonetsu at teksavvy.com (jonetsu at teksavvy.com) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 15:41:10 -0400 Subject: [LAU] A tune to share In-Reply-To: References: <20140921094525.3f8c81ee@mistral> Message-ID: <20140927154110.55c26b40@mistral> Le vendredi, 26 septembre 2014 18:36:58 +0200, Carlos sanchiavedraz a ?crit : > I liked the song, it has the ambient of a live jam of a few musicians > recorded in the spot, when their alone in a bar, and staff if > cleaning just before closing. Really acoustic and intimate, with a > taste of latin acoustic music. > Maybe reverb is a little over the top, but I guess it was > intentionally, and it's a matter of taste. Thank you for the comments ! And thanks to all who listened to the tune in its entirety (according to youtube stats). Much more people that I thought ! Appreciated. From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Sat Sep 27 20:16:28 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 16:16:28 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <5426F301.6070308@rncbc.org> References: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> <5426F301.6070308@rncbc.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > that said, it would be awesome to merge your hack Paul. > > i can vaguely remember something about that from you a year ago or so, but > i also remember you also recalled and scrapped it the next day, so nothing > was patched yet :( > i didn't pass it on because i started to get some crashes with qjc that i hadn' t had before. is there any plans for (re)posting the "qjackctl pretty-name metadata > patch" or whatever it's called? > it is a pretty deep change (i threw out all support for JACK port aliases). but i will post it at some point because i don't have time to figure out the nature of the (very occasional) crash (yet) jack port aliases *should* be deprecated. it is a mechanism that should never have seen the light of day. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rncbc at rncbc.org Sat Sep 27 20:46:48 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 21:46:48 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> <5426F301.6070308@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <54272238.1090209@rncbc.org> On 09/27/2014 09:16 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Rui Nuno Capela > wrote: > > > that said, it would be awesome to merge your hack Paul. > > i can vaguely remember something about that from you a year ago or > so, but i also remember you also recalled and scrapped it the next > day, so nothing was patched yet :( > > > i didn't pass it on because i started to get some crashes with qjc that > i hadn' t had before. > > is there any plans for (re)posting the "qjackctl pretty-name > metadata patch" or whatever it's called? > > > it is a pretty deep change (i threw out all support for JACK port > aliases). but i will post it at some point because i don't have time to > figure out the nature of the (very occasional) crash (yet) > > jack port aliases *should* be deprecated. it is a mechanism that should > never have seen the light of day. there's the "jack port aliases" and there's the "qjackctl client/port aliases". they are two different things and orthogonal. the later is what i believe may be integrated with the "jack pretty-name metatada" interface. cheers -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc at rncbc.org From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Sat Sep 27 20:59:42 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 16:59:42 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <54272238.1090209@rncbc.org> References: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> <5426F301.6070308@rncbc.org> <54272238.1090209@rncbc.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > On 09/27/2014 09:16 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Rui Nuno Capela > > wrote: >> >> >> that said, it would be awesome to merge your hack Paul. >> >> i can vaguely remember something about that from you a year ago or >> so, but i also remember you also recalled and scrapped it the next >> day, so nothing was patched yet :( >> >> >> i didn't pass it on because i started to get some crashes with qjc that >> i hadn' t had before. >> >> is there any plans for (re)posting the "qjackctl pretty-name >> metadata patch" or whatever it's called? >> >> >> it is a pretty deep change (i threw out all support for JACK port >> aliases). but i will post it at some point because i don't have time to >> figure out the nature of the (very occasional) crash (yet) >> >> jack port aliases *should* be deprecated. it is a mechanism that should >> never have seen the light of day. >> > > there's the "jack port aliases" and there's the "qjackctl client/port > aliases". they are two different things and orthogonal. the later is what i > believe may be integrated with the "jack pretty-name metatada" interface. > http://community.ardour.org/files/qjc-pp.png -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From termtech at rogers.com Sat Sep 27 23:59:00 2014 From: termtech at rogers.com (Tim E. Real) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 19:59 -0400 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <54272238.1090209@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <3026337.EJ7uifIrHs@col-desktop> On September 27, 2014 04:59:42 PM Paul Davis wrote: > http://community.ardour.org/files/qjc-pp.png Yes! Do it! From termtech at rogers.com Sun Sep 28 00:40:20 2014 From: termtech at rogers.com (Tim E. Real) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 20:40:20 -0400 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <542593A7.4030206@rncbc.org> References: <20140925112610.37c983ea@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <20140926171218.18e87c26@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> <542593A7.4030206@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <6694380.DpOeq3HDCj@col-desktop> On September 26, 2014 05:26:15 PM Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > On 09/26/2014 04:12 PM, Philipp ?berbacher wrote: > > On Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:50:06 -0400 > > > > Paul Davis wrote: > >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2014 at 7:17 AM, Philipp ?berbacher > >> > >> wrote: > >>> On Thu, 25 Sep 2014 18:17:56 -0400 > >>> > >>> Paul Davis wrote: > >>>> On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Philipp ?berbacher > >>>> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> on as far as timing. > >>>>> > >>>>> So I remember correctly that there used to be issues with -X > >>>>> seq. > >>>> > >>>> the -X seq option in current JACK1 is just a backward compatible > >>>> hack to allow qjackctl and other tools to invoke the relevant > >>>> stuff. > >>>> > >>>> the actual implementation is nothing to do with the old -X seq > >>>> code, and is actually a2jmidid converted into an internal client. > >>>> Note that JACK2 could use this client too - its source code is > >>>> even in the theoretically "shared" git repo for JACK tools. > >>> > >>> Is there a new, recommended way to do the same thing? I only found > >>> -X alsa_midi in the man page but it does not have the same effect. > >> > >> the confusion here is that there are two sets of command line > >> > >> arguments when you start JACK: > >> jackd [ SERVER OPTIONS ] -d BACKEND_NAME [ BACKEND OPTIONS ] > >> > >> for better or for worse, some of the option letters (e.g. -X or -p) > >> can occur as either server options or backend options. > >> > >> in the "old" world, there was only -X as a backend option and it had > >> two arguments ("seq" or "raw"). Both of them are basically not > >> sensible to use because of the poor implementations they refer to. > >> > >> in the new world, the preferable use of -X is as a server option: > >> jackd ... -X alsa_midi ... -d BACKEND .... > >> > >> BUT ... given the legacy of qjackctl and other control apps which > >> don't know about this, I hacked jack1 so that it would look for the > >> the -X seq argument as a **backend** option and treat that as if the > >> user had used the new form. > >> > >> It would have been less confusing to have not done this, but that > >> would have meant that it would be impossible/harder to use qjackctl > >> to invoke this new MIDI bridge stuff, since it only knows about -X > >> (seq|raw) as a backend option. > >> > >> Alles klar? > > > > Alles klar. Well, mostly. I guess that alsa_midi only makes sense > > when alsa is used as a backend, so I don't quite see why it is a server > > option instead of a backend option. Anyway, using the -X alsa_midi as > > server option works. > > on qjackctl settings, you can set the server prefix to "jackd -X > alsa_midi" and leave the midi driver to "none", especially when NOT > using "alsa" as the driver back-end. > > hth. > cheers Finally is it truly time to move on from the alsa seq and raw drivers? Rui, if ye have not already done so, would ye consider a wee update to qjctl to show these new slaves ? Since both Jack 1 and 2 now have slaves, perhaps a drop down list of the slaves with checkboxes beside each for choosing which ones to use. For good modern user experience and app development it would really help. Thanks! Tim. From gnome at hawaii.rr.com Sun Sep 28 04:37:13 2014 From: gnome at hawaii.rr.com (david) Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2014 18:37:13 -1000 Subject: [LAU] JACKDUB In-Reply-To: <65466.86.105.94.79.1411811096.squirrel@boosthardware.com> References: <59703.86.107.254.57.1407925397.squirrel@boosthardware.com> <65466.86.105.94.79.1411811096.squirrel@boosthardware.com> Message-ID: <54279079.5090702@hawaii.rr.com> On 09/26/2014 11:44 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > > On Sat, September 27, 2014 3:44 am, Carlos sanchiavedraz wrote: >> 2014-08-13 12:23 GMT+02:00 Patrick Shirkey : >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Some of you might be interested in a new project I have been working on: >>> >>> http://jackdub.channellinux.com/ >>> >>> It is a fully realtime automated music playback system built with >>> various >>> FLOSS tools. The system runs entirely in the cloud and doesn't even have >>> a >>> sound card. >>> >>> It's a work in progress so YMMV... >>> >>> >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> -- >>> Patrick Shirkey >>> Boost Hardware Ltd >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Linux-audio-user mailing list >>> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org >>> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user >>> >> >> Hi Patrick. >> >> Can't hear any sound from the stream. I'm interested because it's >> Audio+Floss+Web. Could you explain a bit more what is the project about? >> It >> says in the web "realtime song generator". >> > > It's running now. I'll try to keep it up over the weekend. I'm still > hunting down the cause of various bugs that kill the stream so I have to > kick it over manually occasionally. > > It's a system to generate music in realtime using midi files/samples and > various linux/open source tools. It's not a synth system although I have > plans for adding in realtime synthesis to the mix when I get some more > time. > > It's a combination of musical toy for my own entertainment and a long term > project to build out a fully automated music production system. Some > people spend their money on going to a studio/band room with their mates. > I decided to put everything directly on the web. Just tried playing it from mplayer, which timed out after trying to connect to http://178.63.94.139:8000/. Tried using Audacious' open URL, it reported no codec for it. Doesn't your URL also need to provide a .PLS file? When I point Audacious at this Shoutcast stream, that stream plays: http://yp.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein-station.pls?id=494521 -- David W. Jones gnome at hawaii.rr.com authenticity, honesty, community http://dancingtreefrog.com From fons at linuxaudio.org Sun Sep 28 11:27:40 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 11:27:40 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Jack from CLI [Was: mplayer no go with snd-hdsp] In-Reply-To: <20140927183106.GD11428@opera.rednote.net> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <541949A8.2040009@vegri.net> <20140927154615.GA11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140927165012.GA23713@linuxaudio.org> <20140927173552.GC11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140927175711.GB23713@linuxaudio.org> <20140927183106.GD11428@opera.rednote.net> Message-ID: <20140928112740.GA30222@linuxaudio.org> On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 02:31:06PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > > After having started Jack, in another terminal, run > > > > jack_lsp > > > > which should produce a list of Jack ports for your Multiface. > > > Unfortunately it doesn't. It produces no output, and doesn't return. I have to > Ctrl-C to get the prompt back. That's not normal. If Jack isn't running it should detect that and just terminate with an error. This may have to do with the 'port names patch' which seems to be applied to your version of Jack. AFAIK it allows you to change the names of the soundcard ports by creating a file in ~/.config/jack. Maybe the file *must* be there, I don't know, this is the first time I hear of this patch. Could you try to get an unmodified version of Jack, if at all possible jack1 (because I know that one better). You currently have jack2. Note: before installing any new version of Jack ensure that any others are completely removed. Having more than one version installed or even parts of another version always creates strange problems. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From gabbe.nord at gmail.com Sun Sep 28 12:24:28 2014 From: gabbe.nord at gmail.com (Gabriel Nordeborn) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:24:28 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New song: Never Stop Raising the Bar Message-ID: Hey all! After quite a long period of "no time or no space to make music", I've finally had time and peace of mind enough to sit down and make some new music. I've just published a new track to my SoundCloud, which features vocals from the user "snowflake" of ccmixter.org (a great resource for finding acapella/other remix material, which I sincerely recommend). It's a bit of hiphop/glitch mixed in there, and I hope you'll enjoy it. Please let me know what you think! :) https://soundcloud.com/zthmusic/never-stop-raising-the-bar If there's anyone who can't download from/listen on SoundCloud, just let me know and I'll arrange for an extra download through the website. The song is licensed CC-BY-SA-NC. Thanks a bunch for listening and for any feedback I get! Cheers, Gabriel/zth -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From murks at tuxfamily.org Sun Sep 28 13:30:07 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 15:30:07 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New song: Never Stop Raising the Bar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20140928153007.5e14f302@eeyore.mozart.uni-klu.ac.at> On Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:24:28 +0200 Gabriel Nordeborn wrote: > Hey all! > > After quite a long period of "no time or no space to make music", I've > finally had time and peace of mind enough to sit down and make some > new music. I've just published a new track to my SoundCloud, which > features vocals from the user "snowflake" of ccmixter.org (a great > resource for finding acapella/other remix material, which I sincerely > recommend). It's a bit of hiphop/glitch mixed in there, and I hope > you'll enjoy it. Please let me know what you think! :) > > https://soundcloud.com/zthmusic/never-stop-raising-the-bar > > If there's anyone who can't download from/listen on SoundCloud, just > let me know and I'll arrange for an extra download through the > website. The song is licensed CC-BY-SA-NC. > > Thanks a bunch for listening and for any feedback I get! > > Cheers, > Gabriel/zth Hi Gabriel, it's a nice song (and nice vocals!). I constantly wait for the song to pick up, but it never happens. It's almost always on the edge but stays mellow. I simply prefer faster/breakier stuff. Regards, Philipp From rncbc at rncbc.org Sun Sep 28 16:09:02 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 17:09:02 +0100 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> <5426F301.6070308@rncbc.org> <54272238.1090209@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <5428329E.6040503@rncbc.org> On 09/27/2014 09:59 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Rui Nuno Capela > wrote: > > On 09/27/2014 09:16 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > > > > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 1:25 PM, Rui Nuno Capela > > >> wrote: > > > that said, it would be awesome to merge your hack Paul. > > i can vaguely remember something about that from you a year > ago or > so, but i also remember you also recalled and scrapped it > the next > day, so nothing was patched yet :( > > > i didn't pass it on because i started to get some crashes with > qjc that > i hadn' t had before. > > is there any plans for (re)posting the "qjackctl pretty-name > metadata patch" or whatever it's called? > > > it is a pretty deep change (i threw out all support for JACK port > aliases). but i will post it at some point because i don't have > time to figure out the nature of the (very occasional) crash (yet) > > jack port aliases *should* be deprecated. it is a mechanism that > should never have seen the light of day. > > > there's the "jack port aliases" and there's the "qjackctl > client/port aliases". they are two different things and orthogonal. > the later is what i believe may be integrated with the "jack > pretty-name metatada" interface. > > > http://community.ardour.org/files/qjc-pp.png > ok. so i guess that means we are in tune :)-- drop the old deprecated "jack port aliases" and adopt and/or adapt the even older "qjackctl client/port aliases" as to latest "jack pretty-name metadata" interface. may i/we look at some source code or patch anytime soon ? ;) cheers -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc at rncbc.org From rncbc at rncbc.org Sun Sep 28 18:43:49 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 19:43:49 +0100 Subject: [LAU] qjackctl prettyname (metadata) patch (was: Bridging alsa and jack midi) In-Reply-To: References: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> <5426F301.6070308@rncbc.org> <54272238.1090209@rncbc.org> <5428329E.6040503@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <542856E5.2040107@rncbc.org> On 09/28/2014 07:06 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > patch from svn diff attached > i see that your patch only reads the pretty-names (metadata) if exists at runtime and uses them as the "official" port-names instead. so, who or what does the pretty-name setup? that is, who or what sets the pretty-names of each port in the first place? i was thinking about the user using the qjackctl client/port aliases functionality already in place and use it eg. to run jack_set_property() on each renamed client/port alias on jack server start (as read from Qjackctl.conf file, on a per preset basis). what you think? -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc at rncbc.org From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Sun Sep 28 19:05:36 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 15:05:36 -0400 Subject: [LAU] qjackctl prettyname (metadata) patch (was: Bridging alsa and jack midi) In-Reply-To: <542856E5.2040107@rncbc.org> References: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> <5426F301.6070308@rncbc.org> <54272238.1090209@rncbc.org> <5428329E.6040503@rncbc.org> <542856E5.2040107@rncbc.org> Message-ID: jack_property uses the JACK metadata API to set values for the pretty-name key. any other application could do the same thing. On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: > On 09/28/2014 07:06 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > >> patch from svn diff attached >> >> > i see that your patch only reads the pretty-names (metadata) if exists at > runtime and uses them as the "official" port-names instead. > > so, who or what does the pretty-name setup? that is, who or what sets the > pretty-names of each port in the first place? > > i was thinking about the user using the qjackctl client/port aliases > functionality already in place and use it eg. to run jack_set_property() on > each renamed client/port alias on jack server start (as read from > Qjackctl.conf file, on a per preset basis). > > what you think? > -- > rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela > rncbc at rncbc.org > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at linuxaudiosystems.com Sun Sep 28 19:07:34 2014 From: paul at linuxaudiosystems.com (Paul Davis) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 15:07:34 -0400 Subject: [LAU] qjackctl prettyname (metadata) patch (was: Bridging alsa and jack midi) In-Reply-To: References: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> <5426F301.6070308@rncbc.org> <54272238.1090209@rncbc.org> <5428329E.6040503@rncbc.org> <542856E5.2040107@rncbc.org> Message-ID: On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > jack_property uses the JACK metadata API to set values for the pretty-name > key. > or rather, the user can use jack_property to .... i run a post-startup script from qjc that executes jack_property to rename all my RME ports, for example. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From termtech at rogers.com Mon Sep 29 02:22:36 2014 From: termtech at rogers.com (Tim E. Real) Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 22:22:36 -0400 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <1411827550.14916.3.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1411827550.14916.3.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> On September 27, 2014 04:19:10 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote: > Perhaps OT, perhaps not. > > [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ amidi -l > Dir Device Name > IO hw:0,0 HDSPMx579bcc MIDI 1 > IO hw:1,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI > IO hw:2,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI > IO hw:3,0,0 nanoKONTROL MIDI 1 > IO hw:4,0,0 USB Device 0x170b:0x11 MIDI 1 > > Currently I need to manually connect the TerraTec cards MIDI ports. Is > there a way to give both cards an unique name? JFTR the TerraTec cards > have different IRQs. It would be comfortable if e.g. aj-snapshot could > distinguish both cards. Can you, or someone, please tell me what happens in a case like this? Each day he boots his computer, is it guaranteed TerraTec A = hw:1 and TerraTec B = hw:2 ? Thanks. Tim. From cbannister at slingshot.co.nz Mon Sep 29 03:25:04 2014 From: cbannister at slingshot.co.nz (Chris Bannister) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:25:04 +1300 Subject: [LAU] [Bulk] Re: Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> References: <1411827550.14916.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> Message-ID: <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 10:22:36PM -0400, Tim E. Real wrote: > On September 27, 2014 04:19:10 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > Perhaps OT, perhaps not. > > > > [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ amidi -l > > Dir Device Name > > IO hw:0,0 HDSPMx579bcc MIDI 1 > > IO hw:1,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI > > IO hw:2,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI > > IO hw:3,0,0 nanoKONTROL MIDI 1 > > IO hw:4,0,0 USB Device 0x170b:0x11 MIDI 1 > > > > Currently I need to manually connect the TerraTec cards MIDI ports. Is > > there a way to give both cards an unique name? JFTR the TerraTec cards > > have different IRQs. It would be comfortable if e.g. aj-snapshot could > > distinguish both cards. > > Can you, or someone, please tell me what happens in a case like this? > Each day he boots his computer, is it guaranteed > TerraTec A = hw:1 and TerraTec B = hw:2 ? I'm not sure, but would a udev rule help here? That's the first thing that springs to mind. It would seem that hw:1 and hw:2 are physically fixed or are they named during the boot process? -- "If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing." --- Malcolm X From termtech at rogers.com Mon Sep 29 04:40:45 2014 From: termtech at rogers.com (Tim E. Real) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 00:40:45 -0400 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> References: <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> Message-ID: <14421536.Da4YrEp7z3@col-desktop> On September 29, 2014 04:25:04 PM Chris Bannister wrote: > On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 10:22:36PM -0400, Tim E. Real wrote: > > On September 27, 2014 04:19:10 PM Ralf Mardorf wrote: > > > Perhaps OT, perhaps not. > > > > > > [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ amidi -l > > > Dir Device Name > > > IO hw:0,0 HDSPMx579bcc MIDI 1 > > > IO hw:1,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI > > > IO hw:2,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI > > > IO hw:3,0,0 nanoKONTROL MIDI 1 > > > IO hw:4,0,0 USB Device 0x170b:0x11 MIDI 1 > > > > > > Currently I need to manually connect the TerraTec cards MIDI ports. Is > > > there a way to give both cards an unique name? JFTR the TerraTec cards > > > have different IRQs. It would be comfortable if e.g. aj-snapshot could > > > distinguish both cards. > > > > Can you, or someone, please tell me what happens in a case like this? > > Each day he boots his computer, is it guaranteed > > > > TerraTec A = hw:1 and TerraTec B = hw:2 ? > > I'm not sure, but would a udev rule help here? That's the first thing > that springs to mind. It would seem that hw:1 and hw:2 are physically > fixed or are they named during the boot process? Thanks. Found this reeeally simple instruction for udev: http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Changing_card_IDs_with_udev Check it out Ralf. It looks like you can even set your own device names ! Awesome. A link to this may also be on the Jack website. Tim. From gg3137 at vegri.net Mon Sep 29 06:35:10 2014 From: gg3137 at vegri.net (Giso Grimm) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:35:10 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Jack from CLI [Was: mplayer no go with snd-hdsp] In-Reply-To: <20140928112740.GA30222@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <541949A8.2040009@vegri.net> <20140927154615.GA11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140927165012.GA23713@linuxaudio.org> <20140927173552.GC11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140927175711.GB23713@linuxaudio.org> <20140927183106.GD11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140928112740.GA30222@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: <5428FD9E.70904@vegri.net> On 09/28/2014 01:27 PM, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Sat, Sep 27, 2014 at 02:31:06PM -0400, Janina Sajka wrote: > >>> After having started Jack, in another terminal, run >>> >>> jack_lsp >>> >>> which should produce a list of Jack ports for your Multiface. >> >> >> Unfortunately it doesn't. It produces no output, and doesn't return. I have to >> Ctrl-C to get the prompt back. > > That's not normal. If Jack isn't running it should detect > that and just terminate with an error. > > This may have to do with the 'port names patch' which seems > to be applied to your version of Jack. AFAIK it allows you > to change the names of the soundcard ports by creating a > file in ~/.config/jack. Maybe the file *must* be there, I > don't know, this is the first time I hear of this patch. > > Could you try to get an unmodified version of Jack, if at > all possible jack1 (because I know that one better). You > currently have jack2. May this be related with dbus support of jack2? If yes, then using jack1 or recompiling jack without dbus support might help. If dbus support is needed without having X11 then there was a post on the topic by Len Ovens ('Headless jackdbus (no X11)' on July 22nd 2013). - Giso > > Note: before installing any new version of Jack ensure that > any others are completely removed. Having more than one > version installed or even parts of another version always > creates strange problems. > > Ciao, > From markus.seeber at spectralbird.de Mon Sep 29 07:04:04 2014 From: markus.seeber at spectralbird.de (Markus Seeber) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 09:04:04 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <14421536.Da4YrEp7z3@col-desktop> References: <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> <14421536.Da4YrEp7z3@col-desktop> Message-ID: <32229e24-521d-4ac2-8f34-ba59dbb54df7@email.android.com> I think this one is not linked on jackaudio.org, and the other link on jackaudio.org seems to be broken again... -- Markus -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pshirkey at boosthardware.com Mon Sep 29 08:11:22 2014 From: pshirkey at boosthardware.com (Patrick Shirkey) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 18:11:22 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LAU] JACKDUB In-Reply-To: <54279079.5090702@hawaii.rr.com> References: <59703.86.107.254.57.1407925397.squirrel@boosthardware.com> <65466.86.105.94.79.1411811096.squirrel@boosthardware.com> <54279079.5090702@hawaii.rr.com> Message-ID: <62622.86.105.94.79.1411978282.squirrel@boosthardware.com> On Sun, September 28, 2014 2:37 pm, david wrote: > On 09/26/2014 11:44 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: >> >> On Sat, September 27, 2014 3:44 am, Carlos sanchiavedraz wrote: >>> 2014-08-13 12:23 GMT+02:00 Patrick Shirkey >>> : >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Some of you might be interested in a new project I have been working >>>> on: >>>> >>>> http://jackdub.channellinux.com/ >>>> >>>> It is a fully realtime automated music playback system built with >>>> various >>>> FLOSS tools. The system runs entirely in the cloud and doesn't even >>>> have >>>> a >>>> sound card. >>>> >>>> It's a work in progress so YMMV... >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Patrick Shirkey >>>> Boost Hardware Ltd >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Linux-audio-user mailing list >>>> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org >>>> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user >>>> >>> >>> Hi Patrick. >>> >>> Can't hear any sound from the stream. I'm interested because it's >>> Audio+Floss+Web. Could you explain a bit more what is the project >>> about? >>> It >>> says in the web "realtime song generator". >>> >> >> It's running now. I'll try to keep it up over the weekend. I'm still >> hunting down the cause of various bugs that kill the stream so I have to >> kick it over manually occasionally. >> >> It's a system to generate music in realtime using midi files/samples and >> various linux/open source tools. It's not a synth system although I have >> plans for adding in realtime synthesis to the mix when I get some more >> time. >> >> It's a combination of musical toy for my own entertainment and a long >> term >> project to build out a fully automated music production system. Some >> people spend their money on going to a studio/band room with their >> mates. >> I decided to put everything directly on the web. > > Just tried playing it from mplayer, which timed out after trying to > connect to http://178.63.94.139:8000/. > > Tried using Audacious' open URL, it reported no codec for it. > > Doesn't your URL also need to provide a .PLS file? > > When I point Audacious at this Shoutcast stream, that stream plays: > > http://yp.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein-station.pls?id=494521 > The stream is playing now. It has a bug where it randomly stops playing the audio so I have to be around to keep the sounds working. I'm tracing the issue but it is a bit tricky. -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Sep 29 09:06:06 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 11:06:06 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <14421536.Da4YrEp7z3@col-desktop> References: <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> <14421536.Da4YrEp7z3@col-desktop> Message-ID: <1411981566.1718.30.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-29 at 00:40 -0400, Tim E. Real wrote: > http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Changing_card_IDs_with_udev Thank you for the Link Tim. Regards, Ralf From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Mon Sep 29 09:10:34 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 11:10:34 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> References: <1411827550.14916.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> Message-ID: <1411981834.1718.32.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-29 at 16:25 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: > It would seem that hw:1 and hw:2 are physically > fixed or are they named during the boot process? Fortunately they are fixed, or the sequence randomly always was the same when I checked it. From murks at tuxfamily.org Mon Sep 29 11:56:05 2014 From: murks at tuxfamily.org (Philipp =?UTF-8?B?w5xiZXJiYWNoZXI=?=) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 13:56:05 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <1411981834.1718.32.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1411827550.14916.3.camel@rocketmail.com> <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> <1411981834.1718.32.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <20140929135605.66e220b0@eeyore> On Mon, 29 Sep 2014 11:10:34 +0200 Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Mon, 2014-09-29 at 16:25 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote: > > It would seem that hw:1 and hw:2 are physically > > fixed or are they named during the boot process? > > Fortunately they are fixed, or the sequence randomly always was the > same when I checked it. As far they are no longer fixed since a couple of years. Not sure though, I would make certain and create udev rules using unique identifiers. From csanchezgs at gmail.com Mon Sep 29 16:10:06 2014 From: csanchezgs at gmail.com (Carlos sanchiavedraz) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 18:10:06 +0200 Subject: [LAU] JACKDUB In-Reply-To: <62622.86.105.94.79.1411978282.squirrel@boosthardware.com> References: <59703.86.107.254.57.1407925397.squirrel@boosthardware.com> <65466.86.105.94.79.1411811096.squirrel@boosthardware.com> <54279079.5090702@hawaii.rr.com> <62622.86.105.94.79.1411978282.squirrel@boosthardware.com> Message-ID: 2014-09-29 10:11 GMT+02:00 Patrick Shirkey : > > On Sun, September 28, 2014 2:37 pm, david wrote: > > On 09/26/2014 11:44 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote: > >> > >> On Sat, September 27, 2014 3:44 am, Carlos sanchiavedraz wrote: > >>> 2014-08-13 12:23 GMT+02:00 Patrick Shirkey > >>> : > >>> > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> Some of you might be interested in a new project I have been working > >>>> on: > >>>> > >>>> http://jackdub.channellinux.com/ > >>>> > >>>> It is a fully realtime automated music playback system built with > >>>> various > >>>> FLOSS tools. The system runs entirely in the cloud and doesn't even > >>>> have > >>>> a > >>>> sound card. > >>>> > >>>> It's a work in progress so YMMV... > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Cheers > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Patrick Shirkey > >>>> Boost Hardware Ltd > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Linux-audio-user mailing list > >>>> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > >>>> http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > >>>> > >>> > >>> Hi Patrick. > >>> > >>> Can't hear any sound from the stream. I'm interested because it's > >>> Audio+Floss+Web. Could you explain a bit more what is the project > >>> about? > >>> It > >>> says in the web "realtime song generator". > >>> > >> > >> It's running now. I'll try to keep it up over the weekend. I'm still > >> hunting down the cause of various bugs that kill the stream so I have to > >> kick it over manually occasionally. > >> > >> It's a system to generate music in realtime using midi files/samples and > >> various linux/open source tools. It's not a synth system although I have > >> plans for adding in realtime synthesis to the mix when I get some more > >> time. > >> > >> It's a combination of musical toy for my own entertainment and a long > >> term > >> project to build out a fully automated music production system. Some > >> people spend their money on going to a studio/band room with their > >> mates. > >> I decided to put everything directly on the web. > > > > Just tried playing it from mplayer, which timed out after trying to > > connect to http://178.63.94.139:8000/. > > > > Tried using Audacious' open URL, it reported no codec for it. > > > > Doesn't your URL also need to provide a .PLS file? > > > > When I point Audacious at this Shoutcast stream, that stream plays: > > > > http://yp.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein-station.pls?id=494521 > > > > > The stream is playing now. It has a bug where it randomly stops playing > the audio so > I have to be around to keep the sounds working. I'm tracing the issue but > it is a bit tricky. > > > > -- > Patrick Shirkey > Boost Hardware Ltd > _______________________________________________ > Linux-audio-user mailing list > Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > Listening to it right now. Patrick, I'd be interested in any documentation about this project. Does it use MMA? Which software are you using and how? Just parts on its own connected to jack or is there any multitrack thing going on? -- C. sanchiavedraZ: * NEW / NUEVO: www.sanchiavedraZ.com * Musix GNU+Linux: www.musix.es -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pshirkey at boosthardware.com Mon Sep 29 17:16:33 2014 From: pshirkey at boosthardware.com (Patrick Shirkey) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 03:16:33 +1000 (EST) Subject: [LAU] JACKDUB In-Reply-To: References: <59703.86.107.254.57.1407925397.squirrel@boosthardware.com> <65466.86.105.94.79.1411811096.squirrel@boosthardware.com> <54279079.5090702@hawaii.rr.com> <62622.86.105.94.79.1411978282.squirrel@boosthardware.com> Message-ID: <49933.86.105.94.79.1412010993.squirrel@boosthardware.com> On Tue, September 30, 2014 2:10 am, Carlos sanchiavedraz wrote: > > > Listening to it right now. > > Patrick, I'd be interested in any documentation about this project. Does > it > use MMA? Which software are you using and how? Just parts on its own > connected to jack or is there any multitrack thing going on? > I will look into MMA. I haven't used it yet so that will be a nice addition to the toolset. At the moment I use a program called jack-smf-player to loop through a playlist of pre composed midi song files while I test out the stability of the system. I added playlist support to jack-smf-player. I have jack running on the dummy driver. I use ecasound to feed the stream to icecast2 because I found it to be slightly easier to setup than other options like darkice, etc... The sound engine is running on linuxsampler. I have a selection of sf2 midi instruments that I play around with the instrument combinations. I can load various instruments with shell scripts if I feel like a change of mood. The main issue at the moment is stability. For example today it has been playing for several hours without any issues but over the weekend it was having problems. The server is a real physical machine with plenty of resources so the stability issue is most likely something wrong with the processing chain. Most likely something in jack-smf-player. -- Patrick Shirkey Boost Hardware Ltd From rncbc at rncbc.org Mon Sep 29 17:54:40 2014 From: rncbc at rncbc.org (Rui Nuno Capela) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 18:54:40 +0100 Subject: [LAU] qjackctl prettyname (metadata) patch In-Reply-To: References: <20140926231720.5cb86ef5@debian> <5426F301.6070308@rncbc.org> <54272238.1090209@rncbc.org> <5428329E.6040503@rncbc.org> <542856E5.2040107@rncbc.org> Message-ID: <54299CE0.7020507@rncbc.org> On 09/28/2014 08:07 PM, Paul Davis wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 3:05 PM, Paul Davis > wrote: > > jack_property uses the JACK metadata API to set values for the > pretty-name key. > > > or rather, the user can use jack_property to .... > > i run a post-startup script from qjc that executes jack_property to > rename all my RME ports, for example. > done. qjackctl svn trunk r787 (aka. v0.3.11.12) commit-log says: - JACK client/port pretty-name (metadata) support is being introduced (under heavy refactoring; patch by Paul Davis). (EXPERIMENTAL) all that to say that it ain't exactly your version of the patch, but maybe quite equivalent in function, or so i presume. still, it doesn't do jack_set_property()'s as from qjackctl own client/port aliases, yet. that will come next, i hope. please test && tell cheers -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc at rncbc.org From jeb at ponderworthy.com Mon Sep 29 18:15:30 2014 From: jeb at ponderworthy.com (Jonathan E. Brickman) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 13:15:30 -0500 Subject: [LAU] New content on the Yoshimi wiki Message-ID: <5429A1C2.1000801@ponderworthy.com> Greetings, everyone. I am doing some work "in fits and starts" on the Yoshimi wiki, here: http://sourceforge.net/p/yoshimi/wiki/Home/ The new page is the Overview: https://sourceforge.net/p/yoshimi/wiki/an%20Overview I am also working on an old-school "Links" page. If you have web-facing recordings with some or all content generated using Yoshimi, please shoot me some URLs; if you have any web sites discussing Yoshimi I'll very much want those as well; and if there is a third category you can think of, please do let me know. I am interested in building a page to be called something like "Innovations", which could contain some developer-thoughts of areas in which Yoshimi shines brightest. I am definitely not the one to generate or update the list of items, but I'd be very happy to format it for friendly reading. There are other pages in thought, including one called "Approaches to Setup". Suggestions on this and all pages are definitely encouraged, but I am not promising anything in particular except the above :-) -- Jonathan E. Brickman Ponderworthy Music 805 SW Jewell Ave, Topeka KS 66606-1610 jeb at ponderworthy.com "Normal" is however we are right now! From fons at linuxaudio.org Mon Sep 29 20:42:41 2014 From: fons at linuxaudio.org (Fons Adriaensen) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 20:42:41 +0000 Subject: [LAU] Jack from CLI [Was: mplayer no go with snd-hdsp] In-Reply-To: <5428FD9E.70904@vegri.net> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <541949A8.2040009@vegri.net> <20140927154615.GA11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140927165012.GA23713@linuxaudio.org> <20140927173552.GC11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140927175711.GB23713@linuxaudio.org> <20140927183106.GD11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140928112740.GA30222@linuxaudio.org> <5428FD9E.70904@vegri.net> Message-ID: <20140929204241.GA18475@linuxaudio.org> On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 08:35:10AM +0200, Giso Grimm wrote: > May this be related with dbus support of jack2? If yes, then using jack1 > or recompiling jack without dbus support might help. If dbus support is > needed without having X11 then there was a post on the topic by Len > Ovens ('Headless jackdbus (no X11)' on July 22nd 2013). Dbus and X11 should not be related. Except that both the 'session' dbus and X11 are probably launched by the same entity: the *DM login manager. And I assume that Jack2 Dbus means 'session' bus, and not the 'system' one. On a system without a graphical login (as the OP is probably using) there may not be a 'session' dbus at all. I'll be optimistic and assume that jack2 really doesn't *need* dbus even if it's capable of using it. Maybe I'm too optimistic. Even if I've seen too much 'desktop', 'session', 'seat' and whatever other nonsense creeping into a what should be a basic system. Ciao, -- FA A world of exhaustive, reliable metadata would be an utopia. It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris and hysterically inflated market opportunities. (Cory Doctorow) From len at ovenwerks.net Mon Sep 29 22:10:12 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:10:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Jack from CLI In-Reply-To: <20140929204241.GA18475@linuxaudio.org> References: <20140917081559.GD4663@opera.rednote.net> <541949A8.2040009@vegri.net> <20140927154615.GA11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140927165012.GA23713@linuxaudio.org> <20140927173552.GC11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140927175711.GB23713@linuxaudio.org> <20140927183106.GD11428@opera.rednote.net> <20140928112740.GA30222@linuxaudio.org> <5428FD9E.70904@vegri.net> <20140929204241.GA18475@linuxaudio.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Sep 2014, Fons Adriaensen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 08:35:10AM +0200, Giso Grimm wrote: > >> May this be related with dbus support of jack2? If yes, then using jack1 >> or recompiling jack without dbus support might help. If dbus support is >> needed without having X11 then there was a post on the topic by Len >> Ovens ('Headless jackdbus (no X11)' on July 22nd 2013). > > Dbus and X11 should not be related. Except that both the 'session' > dbus and X11 are probably launched by the same entity: the *DM Used to be x was launched from the dbus-launch command line, but I think it is upstart or systemd launching them these days. I have in the past been successful using dbus-launch to run screen on a headless box and been able to run pulse from one screen terminal and jackdbus from another (and other jack/dbus apps in other screen terminals). Absolutely, there is no need for X to make dbus work. I did (BTW) find pulse -> jack bridging absolutely useless in this case, except that it was a great test case to show that dbus was functioning correctly. There are not a lot of CLI audio apps that look for pulse. > I'll be optimistic and assume that jack2 really doesn't *need* > dbus even if it's capable of using it. Maybe I'm too optimistic. > Even if I've seen too much 'desktop', 'session', 'seat' and > whatever other nonsense creeping into a what should be a basic > system. Probably not. I don't know if running jackdbus is more or less useful in a headless case. The major upside I can see is the ability to control the running jack server from jack_control. Certainly jack_control stop/exit is much cleaner than killall -9 jackd. If this is worth the added complexity of having yet another service running, I don't know. In any case, I would suggest chmod -x whichever executable you are not using (jackd or jackdbus). Or if you are building jack2 just build the one you want. (the debian jackd2 package is broken IMO for including both) -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From mista.tapas at gmx.net Tue Sep 30 08:55:04 2014 From: mista.tapas at gmx.net (Florian Paul Schmidt) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:55:04 +0200 Subject: [LAU] New song: Never Stop Raising the Bar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <542A6FE8.7090109@gmx.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dope! :) Flo On 28.09.2014 14:24, Gabriel Nordeborn wrote: > Hey all! > > After quite a long period of "no time or no space to make music", > I've finally had time and peace of mind enough to sit down and make > some new music. I've just published a new track to my SoundCloud, > which features vocals from the user "snowflake" of ccmixter.org > (a great resource for finding acapella/other > remix material, which I sincerely recommend). It's a bit of > hiphop/glitch mixed in there, and I hope you'll enjoy it. Please > let me know what you think! :) > > https://soundcloud.com/zthmusic/never-stop-raising-the-bar > > If there's anyone who can't download from/listen on SoundCloud, > just let me know and I'll arrange for an extra download through the > website. The song is licensed CC-BY-SA-NC. > > Thanks a bunch for listening and for any feedback I get! > > Cheers, Gabriel/zth > > > _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-user > mailing list Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org > http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-user > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUKm/lAAoJEA5f4Coltk8Z9FQIAJbWENi+wOYuUy0yFl5KzaDW Gcd97WmlNMjXVsAefvlf/U809TsBsgdbBF1GPqsDR6LmOxmoDW0VEWLYTuJmZzFu juaM8abYrfiwgDFobiKX0ftSnC73Di3XsMsUswaQuH1BTrrZXn3Bjx0dJdLs1HdK 9Eqk08Md3Is3uuUa6uwzndEhm77ip45dDzvtFWWq34dRnvttx2JtEtFBClLftGSU ljAMcnsDVklqpflncSCgyMtz6OuX+EfoonhgvwEWHug9meVWzA4CU1nBtJpQxAt1 Shme5PquJLbibP5saVtjPRYh9m+T0oEkqsGMetywGZy9qBns2x6OEdh5OVLkhs0= =2TV/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nescivi at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 08:56:17 2014 From: nescivi at gmail.com (nescivi) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:56:17 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Creative Music Coding lab tonight - 30 sept 2014 - STEIM, Amsterdam Message-ID: <542A7031.4090907@gmail.com> Hiho, tonight is the next edition of the Creative Music Coding lab: We welcome again all creative music coders at STEIM for an evening of exchanging current work, problems and solutions - and music together. More information: http://steim.org/event/creative-music-coding-lab-14/ Entrance is free. And let us know if you plan to join (just to get an idea of how many seats, and how much coffee and tea we should prepare)! sincerely, Marije From nescivi at gmail.com Tue Sep 30 08:56:17 2014 From: nescivi at gmail.com (nescivi) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 10:56:17 +0200 Subject: [LAU] [LAD] Creative Music Coding lab tonight - 30 sept 2014 - STEIM, Amsterdam Message-ID: <542A7031.4090907@gmail.com> Hiho, tonight is the next edition of the Creative Music Coding lab: We welcome again all creative music coders at STEIM for an evening of exchanging current work, problems and solutions - and music together. More information: http://steim.org/event/creative-music-coding-lab-14/ Entrance is free. And let us know if you plan to join (just to get an idea of how many seats, and how much coffee and tea we should prepare)! sincerely, Marije _______________________________________________ Linux-audio-dev mailing list Linux-audio-dev at lists.linuxaudio.org http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev From philcm at gnu.org Tue Sep 30 11:23:21 2014 From: philcm at gnu.org (Phil CM) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:23:21 +0100 Subject: [LAU] What is wrong with jackdbus? Message-ID: <542A92A9.5030302@gnu.org> Dear LAU Whenever I'm starting to get xruns, I do a quick ps aux|grep jack and sure enough, in place of the usual (...) /usr/bin/jackd -dalsa -dhw:XStation,0 -r48000 -p512 -n3 -Xseq I get a nasty (...) /usr/bin/jackdbus auto I' suspecting pulseaudio to launch it (I use 3.13.0-36-lowlatency #63-Ubuntu SMP PREEMPT) so I edited /etc/pulse/default.pa To comment out those lines ### Automatically connect sink and source if JACK server is present # .ifexists module-jackdbus-detect.so # .nofail # load-module module-jackdbus-detect channels=2 # .fail # .endif But nope, at some point, jackdbus rears its ugly head. Then I have to reboot :[ because just killing -9 it prevents the jack server to start anew. Questions - What is wrong with jackdbus ? - How can I prevent it from starting ? Thanks -- Phil CM From marc at hacklava.net Tue Sep 30 11:57:20 2014 From: marc at hacklava.net (Marc =?UTF-8?B?TGF2YWxsw6ll?=) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 07:57:20 -0400 Subject: [LAU] What is wrong with jackdbus? In-Reply-To: <542A92A9.5030302@gnu.org> References: <542A92A9.5030302@gnu.org> Message-ID: <20140930075720.3bc19559@telecino> Tue, 30 Sep 2014 12:23:21 +0100, Phil CM wrote : > Questions > > - What is wrong with jackdbus ? > - How can I prevent it from starting ? Delete or backup : /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.jackaudio.service Or rename it to something else like : /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.jackaudio.service.orig Or comment the line : Exec=/usr/bin/jackdbus auto > > Thanks You're welcome. > -- > Phil CM -- Marc From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Sep 30 13:26:49 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 06:26:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] What is wrong with jackdbus? In-Reply-To: <542A92A9.5030302@gnu.org> References: <542A92A9.5030302@gnu.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Sep 2014, Phil CM wrote: > Dear LAU > > Whenever I'm starting to get xruns, I do a quick ps aux|grep jack and sure > enough, in place of the usual > > (...) /usr/bin/jackd -dalsa -dhw:XStation,0 -r48000 -p512 -n3 -Xseq > > I get a nasty > > (...) /usr/bin/jackdbus auto > > I' suspecting pulseaudio to launch it (I use 3.13.0-36-lowlatency #63-Ubuntu > SMP PREEMPT) so I edited > > /etc/pulse/default.pa > > To comment out those lines > > ### Automatically connect sink and source if JACK server is present > # .ifexists module-jackdbus-detect.so > # .nofail > # load-module module-jackdbus-detect channels=2 > # .fail > # .endif > > But nope, at some point, jackdbus rears its ugly head. > Then I have to reboot :[ because just killing -9 it prevents the jack server > to start anew. > > Questions > > - What is wrong with jackdbus ? > - How can I prevent it from starting ? If you run qjackctl, it may start jackdbus. In fact anything that tries to see if jackdbus is alive will start jackdbus. This does not mean it is active. The problem is with the debian (and so ubuntu) jack2 package that installs both jackd and jackdbus. There should only be one or the other on a system. I would suggest that: sudo chmod -x /usr/bin/jackdbus will fix your problem. Then, if you use qjackctl, unselect the Dbus option on the last setup page. Personally, I would use jackdbus instead if I am running dbus anyway. On my systems I have chmod -x jackd instead. The best thing is to run the one you feel most comfortable with. The problem with splitting jack2 into two packages probably has something to do with having to redo the depends for all the other packages using jack2. Because I happen to use jackdbus, my opinion is that /usr/bin/jackd should be a script that takes the normal jackd command line and uses them to run jack_control to start jackdbus. However, I am sure that lots of people would hate that idea and I am not going to make such a script either.... I am not trying to start a discusion on it :) -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From shal at free.fr Tue Sep 30 19:29:33 2014 From: shal at free.fr (shal at free.fr) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 21:29:33 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [LAU] Master Control disappears In-Reply-To: <1502705786.273845096.1412104948525.JavaMail.root@spooler2-g27.priv.proxad.net> Message-ID: <1035272738.273865750.1412105373344.JavaMail.root@spooler2-g27.priv.proxad.net> Hi, My sound card is a Edirol UA-1000 that is supported by the module snd_ua101. In the past, I have a master control in alsamixer. This sound card have a real master volume. Now, this master control has disappears in alsamixer. I am in Ubuntu 14.04. I don't want a soft volume in order to keep the sound quality. I have only control on midi: $ amixer Simple mixer control 'MIDI Input Mode',0 Capabilities: enum Items: 'High Load' 'Light Load' Item0: 'High Load' There is a way to recovered my Master volume ? Thank you. Olivier From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Sep 30 19:35:30 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 21:35:30 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <14421536.Da4YrEp7z3@col-desktop> References: <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> <14421536.Da4YrEp7z3@col-desktop> Message-ID: <1412105730.806.7.camel@rocketmail.com> On Mon, 2014-09-29 at 00:40 -0400, Tim E. Real wrote: > http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Changing_card_IDs_with_udev Hi :) I don't understand how to create the udev rule. The target is, that hw:0 is the RME card, named by it's original name hw:1 is Envy card 1 , named by it's original name hw:2 is Envy card 2 , named by a customized name any USB device should become hw:>=3 and get it's original name, even if snd_ice1712 isn't loaded. Excepted of the customized name, this is provided by /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf. The below udev rule doesn't work [1]. Regards, Ralf [1] [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ cat /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf # ALSA module ordering options snd slots=snd_hdspm,snd_ice1712,snd_ice1712 [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ cat /lib/udev/rules.d/85-TerraTec_EWX24_96_2.rules SUBSYSTEM!="sound", GOTO="TerraTec_EWX24_96_2_end" ACTION!="add", GOTO="TerraTec_EWX24_96_2_end" DEVPATH=="/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card?", ATTR{id}="TerraTec EWX24/96_2" LABEL="TerraTec_EWX24_96_2_end" [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ cat /proc/asound/cards 0 [HDSPMx579bcc ]: HDSPM - RME AIO_579bcc RME AIO S/N 0x579bcc at 0xfddf0000, irq 18 1 [EWX2496 ]: ICE1712 - TerraTec EWX24/96 TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbf00, irq 20 2 [EWX2496_1 ]: ICE1712 - TerraTec EWX24/96 TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbb00, irq 21 [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ amidi -l Dir Device Name IO hw:0,0 HDSPMx579bcc MIDI 1 IO hw:1,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI IO hw:2,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ udevadm monitor --kernel --subsystem-match=sound monitor will print the received events for: KERNEL - the kernel uevent [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ sudo modprobe -r snd_ice1712 [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ sudo modprobe snd_ice1712 KERNEL[434.220676] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2/midi2 (sound) KERNEL[434.220746] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2/dmmidi2 (sound) KERNEL[434.222669] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2/midiC2D0 (sound) KERNEL[434.222742] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2/pcmC2D0p (sound) KERNEL[434.222772] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2/pcmC2D0c (sound) KERNEL[434.222800] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2/controlC2 (sound) KERNEL[434.222823] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2 (sound) KERNEL[434.222851] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1/midi1 (sound) KERNEL[434.222880] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1/dmmidi1 (sound) KERNEL[434.222907] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1/midiC1D0 (sound) KERNEL[434.222934] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1/pcmC1D0p (sound) KERNEL[434.222961] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1/pcmC1D0c (sound) KERNEL[434.222988] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1/controlC1 (sound) KERNEL[434.223010] remove /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1 (sound) KERNEL[441.948404] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1 (sound) KERNEL[441.948627] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1/controlC1 (sound) KERNEL[441.948667] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1/pcmC1D0p (sound) KERNEL[441.948804] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1/pcmC1D0c (sound) KERNEL[441.948839] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1/midiC1D0 (sound) KERNEL[441.948973] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1/midi1 (sound) KERNEL[441.949009] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1/dmmidi1 (sound) KERNEL[441.956442] change /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:05.0/sound/card1 (sound) KERNEL[442.002086] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2 (sound) KERNEL[442.002242] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2/controlC2 (sound) KERNEL[442.002264] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2/pcmC2D0p (sound) KERNEL[442.002280] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2/pcmC2D0c (sound) KERNEL[442.002297] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2/midiC2D0 (sound) KERNEL[442.002379] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2/midi2 (sound) KERNEL[442.002399] add /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2/dmmidi2 (sound) KERNEL[442.016664] change /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card2 (sound) From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Sep 30 20:26:14 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 22:26:14 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <1412105730.806.7.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> <14421536.Da4YrEp7z3@col-desktop> <1412105730.806.7.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1412108774.841.3.camel@rocketmail.com> On Tue, 2014-09-30 at 21:35 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > DEVPATH=="/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card?", ATTR{id}="TerraTec EWX24/96_2" After changing the ATTR{id} it does work for the audio name, but the MIDI name doesn't change, so the udev rule is useless for my purpose. [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ grep DEVPATH /lib/udev/rules.d/85-TerraTec_EWX24_96_2.rules DEVPATH=="/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.4/0000:04:06.0/sound/card?", ATTR{id}="TerraTec_EWX24_96_2" [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ cat /proc/asound/cards 0 [HDSPMx579bcc ]: HDSPM - RME AIO_579bcc RME AIO S/N 0x579bcc at 0xfddf0000, irq 18 1 [EWX2496 ]: ICE1712 - TerraTec EWX24/96 TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbf00, irq 20 2 [TerraTec_EWX24_]: ICE1712 - TerraTec EWX24/96 TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbb00, irq 21 [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ amidi -l Dir Device Name IO hw:0,0 HDSPMx579bcc MIDI 1 IO hw:1,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI IO hw:2,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Sep 30 20:44:40 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 13:44:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <1412105730.806.7.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> <14421536.Da4YrEp7z3@col-desktop> <1412105730.806.7.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Sep 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ cat /proc/asound/cards > 0 [HDSPMx579bcc ]: HDSPM - RME AIO_579bcc > RME AIO S/N 0x579bcc at 0xfddf0000, irq 18 > 1 [EWX2496 ]: ICE1712 - TerraTec EWX24/96 > TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbf00, irq 20 > 2 [EWX2496_1 ]: ICE1712 - TerraTec EWX24/96 > TerraTec EWX24/96 at 0xbb00, irq 21 > [rocketmouse at archlinux ~]$ amidi -l > Dir Device Name > IO hw:0,0 HDSPMx579bcc MIDI 1 > IO hw:1,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI > IO hw:2,0 TerraTec EWX24/96 MIDI I don't think you can refer to midi by name in the same way as audio ports. For example, as above you have hw:2,0 or hw:EWX2496_1, but you can not use hw:ICE1712 - TerraTec EWX24/96. What I am saying is that EWX2496_1 is a device, not a name or description. MIDI does not have this. However, qjackctl at least does use the description. So what you want to change is the description that is shown as "Name" above. The udev rules will be different than those used to change the device because you are changing a different part of things. Because of a flood, I don't have access to any of my MIDI IFs to try things here though. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Sep 30 20:57:53 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 22:57:53 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> <14421536.Da4YrEp7z3@col-desktop> <1412105730.806.7.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1412110673.841.5.camel@rocketmail.com> On Tue, 2014-09-30 at 13:44 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > I don't think you can refer to midi by name in the same way as audio > ports. For example, as above you have hw:2,0 or hw:EWX2496_1, but you can > not use hw:ICE1712 - TerraTec EWX24/96. What I am saying is that EWX2496_1 > is a device, not a name or description. MIDI does not have this. However, > qjackctl at least does use the description. So what you want to change is > the description that is shown as "Name" above. The udev rules will be > different than those used to change the device because you are changing a > different part of things. Because of a flood, I don't have access to any > of my MIDI IFs to try things here though. The problem here is that I manually can connect 20:TerraTec EWX24/96 |- 0:TerraTec EWX 24/96 MIDI 24:TerraTec EWX24/96 |- 0:TerraTec EWX 24/96 MIDI they always are distinguished by "20" and "24", the sequence of the cards always is the same, but QjactCtl's Patchbay and aj-snapshot are unable to restore the connections automatically. From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Sep 30 21:24:45 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 14:24:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: <1412110673.841.5.camel@rocketmail.com> References: <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> <14421536.Da4YrEp7z3@col-desktop> <1412105730.806.7.camel@rocketmail.com> <1412110673.841.5.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Sep 2014, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Tue, 2014-09-30 at 13:44 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: >> I don't think you can refer to midi by name in the same way as audio >> ports. For example, as above you have hw:2,0 or hw:EWX2496_1, but you can >> not use hw:ICE1712 - TerraTec EWX24/96. What I am saying is that EWX2496_1 >> is a device, not a name or description. MIDI does not have this. However, >> qjackctl at least does use the description. So what you want to change is >> the description that is shown as "Name" above. The udev rules will be >> different than those used to change the device because you are changing a >> different part of things. Because of a flood, I don't have access to any >> of my MIDI IFs to try things here though. > > The problem here is that I manually can connect > > 20:TerraTec EWX24/96 > |- 0:TerraTec EWX 24/96 MIDI > > 24:TerraTec EWX24/96 > |- 0:TerraTec EWX 24/96 MIDI > > they always are distinguished by "20" and "24", the sequence of the > cards always is the same, but QjactCtl's Patchbay and aj-snapshot are > unable to restore the connections automatically. Odd, aconnect would use 20:0 and 24:0 as the port names. Aconnect calls this "sender, receiver = client:port" ... Why would qjc or aj-s use something different? unless you talk about jack-midi with a port like: a2j:Midi Through [14] (capture): Midi Through Port-0 This should be 14:0 somewhere in there. My first response is that this is a bug because there is enough information there that each port is unique. Unless the 20 and 24 are different each time... but I would expect it to work sometimes then. I think if it was me, and I was changing the description with udev, I would change both of them to shorter names with no spaces like TT_0 and TT_1 -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net From ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com Tue Sep 30 21:42:33 2014 From: ralf.mardorf at rocketmail.com (Ralf Mardorf) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 23:42:33 +0200 Subject: [LAU] Bridging alsa and jack midi In-Reply-To: References: <1810107.kQAFGie7WB@col-desktop> <20140929032504.GA12634@tal> <14421536.Da4YrEp7z3@col-desktop> <1412105730.806.7.camel@rocketmail.com> <1412110673.841.5.camel@rocketmail.com> Message-ID: <1412113353.841.7.camel@rocketmail.com> On Tue, 2014-09-30 at 14:24 -0700, Len Ovens wrote: > Why would qjc or aj-s use something different? I don't know, but restoring doesn't work. > My first response is that this is a bug because there is enough > information there that each port is unique. And a bug that was more than one time reported, that's why I again asked for a workaround. > I think if it was me, and I was changing the description with udev, I > would change both of them to shorter names with no spaces like TT_0 > and TT_1 Backward compatibility, at least restoring when just the first card was used should work, so keeping the original name makes sense. Anyway, for the MIDI names the udev rule doesn't work. From marc at hacklava.net Tue Sep 30 23:20:02 2014 From: marc at hacklava.net (Marc =?UTF-8?B?TGF2YWxsw6ll?=) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 19:20:02 -0400 Subject: [LAU] What is wrong with jackdbus? In-Reply-To: References: <542A92A9.5030302@gnu.org> Message-ID: <20140930192002.7336768a@telecino> Tue, 30 Sep 2014 06:26:49 -0700 (PDT), Len Ovens wrote : > > Questions > > > > - What is wrong with jackdbus ? > > - How can I prevent it from starting ? > > If you run qjackctl, it may start jackdbus. In fact anything that > tries to see if jackdbus is alive will start jackdbus. This does not > mean it is active. > > The problem is with the debian (and so ubuntu) jack2 package that > installs both jackd and jackdbus. There should only be one or the > other on a system. I would suggest that: > sudo chmod -x /usr/bin/jackdbus > > will fix your problem. Then, if you use qjackctl, unselect the Dbus > option on the last setup page. > > Personally, I would use jackdbus instead if I am running dbus anyway. > On my systems I have chmod -x jackd instead. The best thing is to run > the one you feel most comfortable with. Removing the execution bit on the jackdbus binary (using chmod -x) would not prevent D-bus from trying to start it, generating useless activity on the system, maybe resulting in errors and growing log files. I think it'd better to disable the D-bus jackaudio service. -- Marc From len at ovenwerks.net Tue Sep 30 23:57:34 2014 From: len at ovenwerks.net (Len Ovens) Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2014 16:57:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [LAU] What is wrong with jackdbus? In-Reply-To: <20140930192002.7336768a@telecino> References: <542A92A9.5030302@gnu.org> <20140930192002.7336768a@telecino> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Sep 2014, Marc Lavall?e wrote: > Tue, 30 Sep 2014 06:26:49 -0700 (PDT), Len Ovens wrote : >> The problem is with the debian (and so ubuntu) jack2 package that >> installs both jackd and jackdbus. There should only be one or the >> other on a system. I would suggest that: >> sudo chmod -x /usr/bin/jackdbus > Removing the execution bit on the jackdbus binary (using chmod -x) > would not prevent D-bus from trying to start it, generating useless > activity on the system, maybe resulting in errors and growing log > files. I think it'd better to disable the D-bus jackaudio service. Having seen your reply, I agree. -- Len Ovens www.ovenwerks.net