<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 9:51 PM, Fons Adriaensen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:fons@kokkinizita.net">fons@kokkinizita.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im">On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 08:52:07PM +0300, alex stone wrote:<br>
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<br>
</div>This does not make any sense. Early reflection are<br>
the first 80-100ms of a room's response. There will<br>
normally be a number of reflections in this interval,<br>
and they come from all directions. In a good concert<br>
hall there will be some strong ones from the sides.<br>
Reducing them to mono and giving them the same direction<br>
as the direct sound does not correspond to any real<br>
acoustic process. A jconv setup meant to reproduce ER<br>
should at least be stereo if your mix is stereo. You<br>
just mix it directly into the stereo master bus.<br>
<br>
Most stereo reverbs will just produce one set of ER,<br>
while they should be different for each source position.<br>
If you separate the ER from the reverb tail there are<br>
some things you can do to have more variation. One is<br>
to create a second set by just swapping L and R, or for<br>
an AMB reverb, by rotating it. Much more interesting<br>
is to play with delays and levels. For a close source<br>
the ER will be weaker and arrive later. For a more<br>
distant source the ER will be close to the direct<br>
sound, and stronger.<br>
<br>
An alternative is to use a reverb that provides a<br>
number of different ER patterns. The reverb I captured<br>
in the concert hall of la Casa della Musica does<br>
provide this, IIRC there are at least 4 ER patterns<br>
corresponding to different on-stage source positions.<br>
In the jconv configuration they have separate inputs<br>
(as does the reverb tail), and a common output. Nothing<br>
is lost by the common output, as separate ones would<br>
just all be mixed into the master bus anyway. You can<br>
enhance the set of 4 by using different delays.<br>
<br>
On each channel you should have a post-fader send to<br>
set the level of the ER and a second one for the reverb<br>
tail, and insert a short variable delay into the direct<br>
sound path (after the point where the delay send is taken).<br>
Or you put the delay into the reverb send and use it<br>
in the opposite sense.<br>
<br>
Of course doing this in Ardour is a nightmare as you end<br>
up with three of four plugins per channel. For a typical<br>
orchestra this means you'd have something like 50 plugin<br>
windows on screen, or being forced to re-open and close<br>
them for each adjustment.<br>
<br>
I'm developing a mixer app that has a more ergonomic<br>
layout for this sort of thing. It wil also do ambisonics<br>
and provide filters, dynamics, equaliser and delays on<br>
each channel.<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
</font><div><div></div><div class="h5">FA<br>
<br>
Io lo dico sempre: l'Italia è troppo stretta e lunga.<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>Fons, you're right, it doesn't make any sense, and i've found that out for myself. (I did learn something in the effort though, so it was worth trying.)<br><br>I also have the recent experience of trying to create as many sends as required in Ardour with another IR, and got past 50 down to the trombones, before i called a halt to it.<br>
<br>I shall have a go at the sala IR tomorrow, and see what happens. Hopefully i can find a balance between as 'real' as possible, and within a reasonable template that runs without a problem. When i add 70 tracks, and 40 busses to Ardour, and then add 50 odd sends, it takes a little while to make all the connections on startup, so i'll need to compromise somewhere, i think.<br>
<br><br>It's good news about your mixer project. I can see something like that taking at least some of the hard work out of a standard orchestral setup.<br><br>I wait with barely controlled excitement for the release.<br>
<br>Thanks again for all the tips, and user friendly technical advice. I'm certainly learning a lot, and that's no bad thing at all.<br><br>Alex.<br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Parchment Studios (It started as a joke...)<br>