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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/03/15 01:03, Paul Davis wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFa_cK=UQyAq_cJfcn+m68a=xd=M=6iLsn7XyT+dc5-hwJohdQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 3:29 AM, Dale
Kazakore Powell <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:dj_kaza@hotmail.com"
target="_blank">dj_kaza@hotmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span
class=""><br>
<br>
</span>But what if you want to listen to audio from a
different application connected to Jack while exporting? </blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That's basically ridiculous.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Why? I don't think it's ridiculous in the slightest! Saying I have
done it a lot I guess that should be obvious... My previous install
I had PA completely disable so everything always went through Jack
(well Jack2 dBus version I believe, if that makes a difference) and
sometimes I might want to listen to music while (batch) processing
some other audio files. If Jack went into freewheeling then it would
prevent my audio I was listening to as soon as Export was started.
It doesn't!<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAFa_cK=UQyAq_cJfcn+m68a=xd=M=6iLsn7XyT+dc5-hwJohdQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
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<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Surely
it should just disconnect from Jack (although this could
possible cause routing issues on reconnecting once
finished) and run as fast as possible using max CPU
cycles.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>You're ignoring the idea that export may involve other
JACK clients. It may involve, for example, a JACK client
functioning as a software synthesizer, or a JACK client
function as an "outboard" FX processor. Disconnecting from
JACK would be completely wrong in such cases, and special
casing the examples where we *could* disconnect from JACK
is an absurd amount of extra work given that we are using
JACK's ability to drive the process cycle AND share data
(even within Ardour itself.<br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Or rather, you're only reading half of my post and ignoring the
section where I ask questions about exactly that!!<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 20/03/15 01:03, Fons Adriaensen
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:20150319180351.GA29001@linuxaudio.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 03:29:56PM +0700, Dale Kazakore Powell wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">But what if you want to listen to audio from a different application
connected to Jack while exporting?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Not possible.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Incorrect!<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:20150319180351.GA29001@linuxaudio.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Surely it should just disconnect from Jack.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">That would work only if there are no other Jack clients in the
signal path of the export. In theory it should be possible to
isolate only those that actually are connected somehow to Ardour,
and let the rest run normally, but that is not how it works.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Yeah I realised afterwards I didn't know if it exported with
external sources. I still can't see how it can go into freewheeling
if it does that, because how does it know these sources are from
soft-synths and not real-world instrument which obviously need to be
incorporated in realtime?<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:20150319180351.GA29001@linuxaudio.org"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Actually I know I have personally exported files after normalising
while listening to different music connected through Jack so your
description seems a little strange to me...
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">That seems impossible.
</pre>
</blockquote>
Try yourself. Just double-checked here playing music through
Audacious set to output directly to Jack and exported a single audio
file as mp3 as no interruption of music. Maybe it's because it is
only a single audio file, so 100% contained within the Ardour
session...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 19/03/15 23:14, Len Ovens wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:alpine.DEB.2.10.1503190909310.32207@scott.cbbs.org"
type="cite"><br>
When you do this, does the CPU load still go to 100%? Ardour may
not be able to switch Jack to freewheeling while another
application is connected to one of the HW ports and so exporting
would be done at RT speed. This is not a good idea if you are
close to the edge with effects/softsynths as freewheeling does not
ever have xruns. Also, export speed will be improved if jack can
freewheel even in a case where cpu use is quite high in RT. <br>
<br>
-- <br>
Len Ovens <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.ovenwerks.net">www.ovenwerks.net</a> <br>
<br>
</blockquote>
Just double-checked. Exporting a 35min long mix as mp3 took a little
over one minute (so clearly nothing like realtime) and Task Manager
showed 50% usage and Top 100% usage so it appears to have maxed out
a single core. Jack CPU stayed at ~2.2% usage (very conservative
settings at the moment.)<br>
<br>
On 20/03/15 01:03, Fons Adriaensen wrote:<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:20150319180351.GA29001@linuxaudio.org"
type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Does Ardour export with
external sources (eg jack connected soft synths) so only the
internal audio? If the former then it should always be done real
time (maybe the source comes from the real world, not the digital
realm)
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">If any of the sources required for the export is not a Jack client
or not synced to Ardour or not capable of running in freewheeling
mode, you simply can't expect export to work.</pre>
</blockquote>
Surely a realtime option would get around this limit, no?? I know
Renosie added exactly that option so that external sources or
realtime knob-twidling could be included at the time of the export.
(Although have to admit I have not tested it, or really touched
Renoise since migrating to Linux, so not sure if it works with
Jack.)<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:20150319180351.GA29001@linuxaudio.org"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">if the latter then there is no real to involve Jack, or
anything related to the audio interface side of things at all!
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">No, you could still have processing in other Jack clients which
are connected to Ardour (i.e. external inserts rather than plugins).
A common example would be a mastering processer such as Jamin.
Ciao,
</pre>
</blockquote>
So why not external effect such as a hardware compressor on your
export?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Not trying to argue here, just your claims seem to go against my
personal experience so would like to understand why as you guys are
obviously much more knowledgeable than myself, especially having the
main coder of the software discussed commenting on the thread.<br>
<br>
<br>
In fact, it seems Ardour ALWAYS disconnects from Jack when not
playing!! Keep the Connections tab open start and stop playback. I
see the source popping up and disappearing with connections to my
output. There is no connection made to Jack when an Export is
started! At least when there are no external Jack clients in the
mix... This is using US14.04 with the KXStudio repos. Seems to claim
Jack uses PortAudio, and the output in Jack is named thusly.<br>
<br>
Dale.<br>
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