[linux-audio-dev] Re: image problem [was Re: [Alsa-devel] help for a levelmeter]

[Patrick Shirkey]

Len Moskowitz wrote:
> Patrick Shirkey wrote:
> 
> 
>> >People here invest their time and effort (but usually not money for
>> >promotion), mostly because they're techies who want to to build
>> >something that they really need/want. Businesses invest money for
>> >another reason, because they want to develop and promote commercial
>> >products. They're mostly two different worlds (though there is
>> >crossover).
>>
>>Would you agree that the commercial side of Linux Audio development is
>>not currently showing much support for the community then? Would you
>>consider it to be partly (if not largely) because there is an image
> 
> problem.
> 
> I'd say that it has nothing to do with image.  Businesses have no reason to
> support general Linux Audio development.  They should be supporting the
> development and promotion of products, and at the moment Linux Audio is not
> a product, nor is it yet a stable foundation for product development.
> 
> I think that the responsibility for why there are no commercial Linux Audio
> products is shared.  Part of it is that the developers are too busy to take
> on commercial consulting and therefore the commercial community doesn't have
> anyone to help them adopt Linux.  There are exceptions, but they are few.
> 
> There are other roadblocks to commercial development, not the least of which
> is the lack of a stable Linux envorinment -- it seems that every few weeks
> (or day!  or hours!) there's a new distribution, a new CVS, a new Unstable.
> Start developing using Suze/Redhat/Debian version X.x and
> ALSA/JACK/OSS/ecasound/snd/USB-services/PCMCIA services/files system
> services version X.x and in a few weeks, if you try to get support the
> response is: "We no longer support that version -- upgrade to the latest
> one."  Developers might love that kind of world, but small companies can't
> live with that - they need a stable development environment.
> 

Fair point. However final Scratch would would suggest that things can be 
done if you are willing to take a snapshot and fine tune that. I don't 
think that there will ever be a completely stable version of anything in 
Linux.

> 
>> >Perhaps there's no need to promote Linux Audio; perhaps instead there
>> >is a need to promote useful products. If those products happen to need
>> >Linux (and ALSA & Jack) as a foundation, then Linux will get promoted
>> >as a side effect of successful products. Much like MacOS.
>>
>> >So if you want Linux Audio to be promoted, either make broadly useful
>> >products or assist the companies that want to turn your work into
>> >broadly useful products.
>>
>>Are you making an offer? ;)
> 
> 
> Yes, I am now and I have in the past.  It's not easy to find takers.
> 

Have you specific projects that you want to see done or are you looking 
for people to present you with concepts? I am particularly interested in 
making djing machines and portable recording devices. If there is 
anything I can do for you please let me know.


> 
>>If we had a community run organisation that lead by example do you think
>>it would make you feel more motivated to promote Linux as a platform to
>>your customers? Esp. If you could show them that your company has an
>>active part in supporting the community?
> 
> 
> If commercial companies could get the cooperation of the few key Linux
> developers who work on ALSA, USB for sound, drivers for sound hardware and
> recording/playback/editing software, they'd be more likely to fund the
> development and marketing of Linux-based products.
> 

In my experience I have had a lot of very useful help from core 
developers and I am not able to offer anywhere as much finacial 
assistance as companies like your own.

> But I don't think that Linux developers care much, in general, about
> developing Linux sound applications for commercial use, or for that matter,
> in promoting Linux.

I wouldn't say they don't care. I prefer to think in terms of everyone 
has strengths and software developers are not particularly reknowned for 
being great communicators. (That is an obvious stereotype which I use to 
highlight the point. I think that LADers are extremely good 
communicators). No man is an island and coding is particularly straining 
on mental facilites. Investing as much energy into promotion is a low 
priority I think.


>  I think that their motivation is more to develop useful
> tools for their own use and to be part of a larger community of their
> technical peers.  They want to do their thing, distribute it freely, and not
> have to deal with the licensing  and access issues associated with
> commercial products (most specifically Microsoft and their Windows
> products).
> 

That's true if you take it at face value but their are many ways to do 
business and the M$ way is not the only one. It's New economy vs Old 
economy. I think a lot of the developers around here would love to see 
their work being used in professional projects assuming they didn't have 
to give up their rights in the process.

> They also seem to have a bit of wariness of getting involved with a
> commercial product that might make their code less openly accessible; the
> wariness is only partly offset by the opportunity to earn some money --
> money is not what motivates them.
> 

It's a fine line.

> 
>>Eg. Official status in the form of certification or advertising space,
>>naming rights, awards in your honour...
> 
> 
> As I said before, perhaps there's no reason for companies to promote Linux
> Audio; instead they should develop and promote products which build on (and
> therefore) require Linux.  That would result in Linux having a higher public
> profile in the audio world.
> 

So what products would core-sound be willing to invest in?

-- 
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
For the discerning hardware connoisseur
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
========================================

"Um...symbol_get and symbol_put... They're
kindof like does anyone remember like get_symbol
and put_symbol I think we used to have..."
- Rusty Russell in his talk on the module subsystem