[linux-audio-dev] Re: Behringer

[Jan Depner]

On Wed, 2004-12-01 at 17:07, Dave Robillard wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-30-11 at 17:51 -0600, Jan Depner wrote:
> > On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 16:32, Dave Robillard wrote:
> > > Ditto.  A closed driver is not fine at all.  It's worse than no driver
> > > at all, since it sets a /very/ dangerous precedent.  (If you don't think
> > > it's a dangerous precedent you just have no foresight and havn't
> > > actually thought about the implications at all)
> > > 
> > > If you want to use proprietary drivers, go use Windows or Mac OS or
> > > Solaris or whatever suits you.... seriously.  Both Windows and MacOS are
> > > extremely superior in terms of support for Audio hardware (and
> > > software).  Go use them.  The solitary reason to use Linux you clearly
> > > don't care about so... why use it?  It just doesn't make sense.
> > > 
> > > I'd rather not have people with this ignorant 'closed drivers = good'
> > > opinion turning Linux into yet another Windows.  If you want a sh***y
> > > proprietary OS, there's plenty to choose from already.  Do the rest of
> > > us a favour and don't advocate turning Linux into yet another one.
> > > 
> > 	Jeez Dave, think you could insult some more people?  I won't purchase a
> > firewire device from RME because it's not supported at all.  On the
> > other hand I will continue to recommend buying NVIDIA video cards at
> > work for our Linux systems because there is no alternative.  I have to
> > have 3D acceleration and there is no other choice.  Would you rather I
> > stopped supporting Linux (drop a couple of hundred Linux systems) where
> > I work and just let them all use Windoze?  This may be a religion for
> > you and Marek but it's not for me.  Just as I don't appreciate having
> > some one bang on my door and tell that I should believe what they
> > believe I don't like it much in print either.  Your point of view has
> > been heard, you don't need to be obnoxious about it.
> > 
> > Jan
> 
> Well I don't appreciate people advocating ideas like "closed support is
> better than no support", essentially advocating the long-term
> destruction if my personal favourite operating system.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, it shows an incredible lack of respect for free
> software authors (particularly the GNU project) and I don't doubt that
> many of them would find it insulting.
> 
> So frankly I don't care if you find my comments insulting, because I
> find your comments equally insulting.  So we're even.
> 
> And yes, I'm aware that practical matters may force people like you to
> use a proprietary solution.  That does not make it a good thing, and it
> CERTAINLY doesn't make closed drivers a good idea.  It's a shame things
> are in such an awful state that you were forced into that situation.  
> 
> Just because things are that way make it okay?  Do you really think like
> that?  If Linus or RMS or hundreds of thousands of other developers had
> your attitude, there wouldn't even be a Linux - this list wouldn't even
> exist.  Hell, the Internet as we know it probably wouldn't even exist.
> 
> Lucky for all of us not everyone has that attitude.
> 
> Your acceptance of proprietary software I don't find insulting - you're
> entitled to not give a s*** about whatever you please.  Your implication
> that I shouldn't be allowed to voice my opinion (which, for the record,
> I have in hopes that some day people won't be forced into situations
> like yours) I do find insulting, and disrespectful.
> 
> Anyway, there is a difference between being forced into a proprietary
> situation and advocating more proprietary crap in Linux is a good idea.
> Please don't put words into my mouth - I never once said anything
> negative about people forced into proprietary solutions, you simply
> assumed I did.
> 

	I wasn't advocating proprietary drivers.  I just happen to agree with
Lee and many others.  I'll take proprietary until someone else writes an
open source driver for NVIDIA that is as fast as the closed source one. 
I have no choice.  I am an open source developer (not just audio
either).  I've been using Linux since 0.99.  I care about Linux.  I've
been through every OS there is starting in the early 70s with the
dreaded OS-360.  I don't want to go back to 15 different UNIX operating
systems.  Also, you must not have read my post very well - I said your
point had been heard, not that you had no right to your opinion.  I also
asked you to not be so obstreperous in your posts.  You'll get more
respect and attention by being polite.

Jan