[linux-audio-dev] Re: linuxaudio.org

[Marek Peteraj]

On Wed, 2004-01-21 at 15:45, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
> this is a somewhat heated reply, you may want to skip it entirely if you 
> have had enough of this thread already...
> 
> but since my own efforts are being drawn into the argument now, i feel 
> it's time to sound off:
> 
> Marek Peteraj wrote:
> > On Tue, 2004-01-20 at 11:01, Daniel James wrote:
> 
> >>It's true that I did initiate the arrangement whereby the Linux audio 
> >>community gets representation at a major UK audio industry trade 
> >>show, 
> > 
> > 
> > Suddenly you're now speaking as the representative of the whole Linux
> > audio community. But you're not. Neither am I. The only true
> > representatives of the Linux Audio community are the Linux Audio
> > Developers.
> 
> marek, please: it's time to shut up.
> 
> i too have been speaking as a representative of the linux audio 
> community on various occasions. frank neumann has even been so bold as 
> to organize a trade show booth in the name of the linux audio community. 
> matthias nagorni is just now and in front of everyone's eyes committing 
> the heinous atrocity of organizing a conference in the name of the linux 
> audio community.
> none of us has obtained anyone's mandate, none of us has discussed 
> everything we do on this list up to the point of consensus.
> 
> SO WHAT?????
> 
> there is no such thing as a linux audio community, except for *what 
> people do*. so daniel is as much part of it as you and i.
> this list is just a list. a means of communication. it's great at times, 
> and sometimes it's not. as pointed out before, not even everyone 
> interested in linux audio uses it.
> 
> nowhere on the whole wide web will you find a clear definition of what 
> the linux audio community is and who can speak for it. and you are not 
> going to define it either by continous nit-picking at the efforts of others.
> 
> linux audio is what people do with it. that's what free software 
> communities are about. if somebody tries to put an organisation together 
> to provide a new forum for exchange with (shudder ;) commercial 
> developers, that can only enrich the community. if it works, great, if 
> it fails, so what?
> nobody is going to take all the code away from you (thanks to the gpl - 
> chapeau, mr. stallman!), nobody is going to take all the contributors of 
> the community away. where is the problem?
> 
> there have been some valid points of criticism on how david is 
> organizing and presenting his effort. i'm sure these can and should be 
> discussed. but there is absolutely and utterly no point in bashing 
> peoples' heads in for working free-of-charge towards what they believe 
> will be for the good of linux audio.
> be pragmatic: if the linuxaudio.org effort is worth crap, then it's 
> going to die a good and honest open-source death. if it prospers, then 
> it will add another facet to the linux audio community. but how could it 
> really endanger or take away anything that the community already has?
> 
> 
> the only thing i see endangered here is the atmosphere of mutual respect 
> that has been one of the pillars of this mailing list.
> 
> 
> if you fear fragmentation of the community, well, that too is part of 
> the game. projects are forked, forks are healed, projects succeed and 
> die, communities form and disperse themselves. no harm in voicing your 
> fear of fragmentation, but why attack people and discredit their efforts?
> 
> 
> excuse me for ranting, but i too have invested a lot of free time *and* 
> money to advocate linux audio and the linux audio community. i want to 
> continue to do this *as i see fit*, to the best of my knowledge, and i 
> certainly do not want to face a stupid public tribunal such as this in 
> return for my efforts.
> 
> in my view, david first of all deserves a huge cheer for a new idea and 
> a lot of work, and then we can discuss the points that were subject to 
> criticism.
> 
> this whole thread sadly reminds me again of the zynaddsubfx flamewar 
> about the weird jesus clause its author had on his website. well, above 
> all, imnsho, if some new thing comes with strings attached that do not 
> suit you, just ignore it. you haven't lost anything, and nothing is 
> being taken away from you. it's an offer, after all.
> 
> 
> >>on the basis that we will be offering free advice and 
> >>information rather than a sales pitch. The organisers have agreed to 
> >>give us the stand at cost, which they didn't have to do.
> > 
> > 
> > So how is that different from LinuxTag or ZKM? Again, what are we trying
> > to promote? The only thing we should promote right now are the Linux
> > Audio applications. Companies have resources to promote themselves. And
> > it makes no sense to promote Linux Audio Users at such event.
> > 
> > The problem is - Frank, Joern, Matthias were doing a great job
> > organising events and helping the Linux Audio Developers to promote
> > their open source Linux Audio applications. They never called themselves
> > the directors of LAD.
> 
> nor does david. he stepped in as director of linuxaudio.org to get a 
> ball rolling.

?

>  just as matthias and frank "usurped" the role of 
> conference organizers. *to*get*something*done* !

Dear Joern, thanks for not replying to 3 of my emails i have sent during
July, August and September.

> 
> if you consider some of his actions bad style, then fine, but show some 
> style yourself when offering criticism.

I have never used uppercase just as you do, i have never called the lad
members a stupid tribunal just as you did in this mail though you're the
admin of this list, and i have never used the ironic term 'err...' just
as Daniel did several times.


Marek