[LAD] OT: alternative fuel for cars [was: Re: Car engine sound emulation for future electic cars. ideas ?]

[Pieter Palmers]

Patrick Shirkey wrote:
> Pieter Palmers wrote:
>> Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2008-08-05 at 23:23 +1200, Pete Black wrote:
>>>> If you want a hydrogen car, you can visit tokyo and lease one from 
>>>> Mazda whenever you like.
>>>>
>>>> http://gas2.org/2008/06/20/mazdas-new-premacy-hydrogen-hybrid-rotary-engine-car-takes-to-the-road/ 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Interesting link. There is another company in Japan that is releasing a
>>> purely hydrogen run car with no gasoline requirements. The fuel is
>>> water, which is then converted to hydrogen gas via electrolysis and
>>> burnt piped into the engine...
>>
>> You mention repeatedly mention that water is an efficient 
>> transportation form of hydrogen. While you are right, it is rather 
>> irrelevant. You don't want to transport water or hydrogen, you want to 
>> transport people/goods/... . You need energy to do this transport. 
>> Hence you have to carry along energy, whatever from it may have.
>>
>> The problem is that water is a very low-energetic form of hydrogen. In 
>> order to convert it into the high-energetic H2 form you have to 
>> provide at least the energy difference between the two forms. So what 
>> I don't understand in this story is where that energy comes from? 
>> Since electrolysis uses electricity, it probably means carrying along 
>> batteries.
>>
>> Which leads me to the next surprise... why one would bother to carry 
>> along a battery to provide power for the electrolysis to then use the 
>> resulting gasses to drive an inferior combustion engine. If you carry 
>> along electrical energy anyway, why not use it to drive an electrical 
>> engine? They are far more efficient than a combustion engine.
>>
>> Some thoughts for the masses,
> 
> In most places water is fairly easy to come by as you only have to wait 
> for the rain or go to a lake/ocean whereas electricity is slightly more 
> complex to attain and usually requires payment for the privilege.
> 
> If you can burn water directly without having to extract the hydrogen 
> first then you can utilize it in much the same way we currently use 
> petrol. i'e once you start the car you will be providing enough energy 
> to keep the engine running. It's a very efficient form of energy 
> extraction compared to current standards.

If one would be able to extract energy from "burning" water, you would 
be right. However, given my science background, I seriously SERIOUSLY 
doubt that this is possible. In fact I don't believe it.

 From my point of view comparing burning petrol with "burning water" 
illustrates a lack of fundamental understanding of chemistry and 
physics. Personally, I would only defend statements like those you're 
making if I'm VERY sure about them, and know what I'm talking about. 
Simply to not make a fool of myself.

Nevertheless I am open for new ideas. It's just that the current 
evidence is not convincing at all. Online video's don't provide the 
information required to be able to tell whether these claims are 
justified. And I'm not saying that these are lies, it's just that I 
wonder whether everything is accounted for.

And while we're at the topic of the video's... They don't really give me 
a lot of confidence due to the video's posted under the "It had to be 
done..." headline. I'm sorry, but the following statement:

"Here’s a few vids of the mighty power of hydrogen explosions. Not an 
endorsement of nuclear power but just a reference for anyone who is 
doubting the energy contained in Hydrogen."

is ridiculous. It's not because that type of atomic bomb is called a 
"hydrogen bomb" that it has anything to do with hydrogen as a power 
source. The former is about splitting the hydrogen atom itself, the 
latter is about splitting the bonds a hydrogen atom has with other 
atoms. Mixing the two as if they are comparable is a very non-scientific 
thing, since anybody that knows how these things work should know that 
they are not comparable.

Greets,

Pieter