[LAD] Impro-Visor created on sourceforge

[Raymond Martin]

On Friday 07 August 2009 10:07:31 Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 09:14:23AM -0400, Raymond Martin wrote:
> > On Friday 07 August 2009 08:56:30 Fons Adriaensen wrote:
> > > Which makes perfect sense. In a civilised society even
> > > a convicted thief retains all the rights to his legally
> > > acquired property. If any of it has to be seized, for
> > > example to compensate his victims, that action can be
> > > taken only by a court. Not by his victims or some self-
> > > appointed vigilante.
> >
> > Wow, do you live in some sort of utopia?
> >
> > Law enforcement in numbers of countries routinely seize peoples property
> > when they are involved in or allegedly involved in crimes when there are
> > no real victims involved. People's cars and other belonging are routinely
> > seized at border crossings if someone is attempting to enter a country
> > illegally. They never get their things back. No courts involved. So much
> > for legal property rights.
>
> The cases you mention such as border crossings are
> all related to security and not to civil justice.

Splitting hairs. The fact that it is security and not justice makes these 
cases even more extreme in their betrayal of justice.

There are cases in the US, for instance, where people growing marijuana
for their medical conditions have had their homes seized and never returned.
No justice there. That's real police stuff.

>
> Regardless of all this: a private person or group
> can't ever do this. Only law enforcement or the
> justice system can, and in the case of the first
> it is temporary (for securtiy or investigation),
> and if not it needs confirmation by a court.

Not so. In most cases of seizure at borders (e.g., US/Canada, US/Mexico)
the property is never returned, ever. The people who loose their property
never get a day in court, ever. Look it up, it is a fact.

Raymond