[linux-audio-user] Flash audio

[Rob]

On Monday 01 September 2003 20:39, RTaylor wrote:
> > When I see someone do something as nifty as the homestar or
> > campchaos.com stuff using the hodgepodge of tools and
> > formats you're describing, I'll believe that.
>  I'm describing some pretty competent commercial tools. From
>  both sides of the linux wall. You didn't check any of those
>  links did you?

I found out that the Corel thing you're espousing doesn't even 
*support* sound.  Are you sure you didn't mean to pitch this 
thing as a PDF replacement or something?

If you'd been to the links I mentioned, you'd know I'm talking 
about art ("content" if you would argue funny cartoons aren't 
art), not tools.  All the bullet points and buzzword support in 
the world will not make a Strongbad video.

>  What do you think's getting done with all of the software
> that is capable of authoring SVG?

I'm guessing a lot of nice corporate logos and other things for 
which people have been using metafiles over the last decade, 
since SVG is essentially the new CGM/WMF/EMF.  That's certainly 
what Corel would like you to be doing.

For the third time I challenge you to show me some real world 
examples out there on the web, and when you do I'll go to the 
trouble of finding a Mandrake package of an SVG viewer.  I did 
look for the Corel viewer and it appears to only be available 
for Windows.

If it's not yet practical to do an engaging, rich, multimedia 
presentation in an SVG file yet, just say so.  (And don't forget 
that the title of this thread is "Flash audio" and we're 
speaking on a list called "linux-audio-user".   That is to say, 
don't skimp on the music and sound effects.)

>  I doubt many folk out there give a damn what extension's
>  attached to their file.

They do when they have a choice between "sbemail047.swf" and 
"sbemail047.svg", "assets/sbemail047-01.mp3", 
"assets/sbemail047-02.mp3", "assets/sbemail047-03.mid", 
"assets/sbemail047-04.js", "assets/sbemail047-05.mp3", etc....

>  As I said "most artists research their tools to a really high
>  degree {large extent, whatever}" {That that sort of thing's

We have here two vector graphic formats.  Both are freely 
available and documented with open specifications, yet for 
multimedia purposes, both require proprietary software both to 
create and to view them.  One has been deemed worthy to kiss the 
W3C's ring, the other is already in use by at least 90% of those 
people browsing the web.  That other one has also been mature 
about 5 years longer, its browser plugin is about 8 times 
smaller, it supports mp3 audio, synchronized and embedded in the 
same file, and enough interactivity that many, many people have 
written games using nothing but this other file format.

As for the W3C's chosen format... well, you might be able to 
trigger some external mp3's using Javascript or something.  And 
we heard there are some guys over there doing something with 
RealMedia and SMIL, maybe you could ask them to write some XML 
for you or something.

Sometimes what's politically correct is just not artistically 
appropriate.  Do you want your project to get headlines because 
it's brilliant, or because you made a silk purse out of a sow's 
ear?

>  gone out of favor in favor of "do only what the customer
>  requires" or "always follow the path of least resistance" is

Yeah, yeah, true artists don't care about their audience, I know.  
Just the artists that ever *have* an audience.

>  Rembrandt, Pollock, Ernst, DaVinci, TD, Puppy...

You mention Tangerine Dream and Skinny Puppy a few times as 
apparent examples in support of your cause.  The truth is, both 
artists chose to release their music in multiple formats so as 
to reach the widest possible audience, despite some of them 
being sonically and technically inferior to the others and 
despite some formats being encumbered by patents and other 
inconveniences.  Even now, you can buy Tangerine Dream on 
tape... not because it's better, but because at the time certain 
of the albums were made, that was where the *biggest audience* 
was.

To summarize this thread: Neither Flash nor SVG allows the easy 
creation of multimedia presentations including audio, using free 
software or otherwise, under Linux.  Both will cost you a lot of 
money to use in the first place and both have non-free browser 
plugins available, Flash currently reaches about 90% of the 
browsers out there, and SVG doesn't appear to have audio support 
at all.

Any questions?

Rob