[linux-audio-user] Re: [linux-audio-dev] Tastes like chicken!

[John Check]

On Sunday 28 November 2004 07:00 pm, tim hall wrote:
> Last Sunday 28 November 2004 15:47, John Check was like:
> > >   Vocals are often a problem for people who don't particularly think of
> > > themselves as "good" singers (whatever that means: is Bob Dylan a
> > > "good" singer ?), and there's a resulting tendency to put the vocals
> > > too far
>
> No, from a technical POV, Bob Dylan is not a good singer. So what? plenty
> of people love his voice and buy his records. Never really understood it
> myself. My favourite singer, Robert Wyatt used to suffer from his fellow
> Soft Machine members deliberately rearranging songs so he couldn't fit any
> vocals in. Philistines. Beauty is in the ear of the beholder.
>

Yup

> > I say two words to my comparatively green musician friends who say "ya
> > gotta have good vox"; Tom Waites. AFAICT it's the same with every singer
> > as far as insecurity goes and I've worked with lots.
>
> Well, you _do_ have to have good vox, but what that means varies according
> to the needs of the piece and the listener.
>

Yup

> There are certain things that will improve vocal performance - Confidence,
> relaxation, good breathing. warm-ups and a good microphone & monitoring.
> Technical limitations aren't a problem if you work with them. If you've
> only got a vocal range of half an octave, don't try those Maria Carey
> songs! Find out where your strong notes are and pitch accordingly. Most
> people who tell me they can't sing are in fact trying to sing well out of
> their range (Basses who try to follow female leads at pitch for example).
>

Absolutely. One has to find ones voice.

> > > back in the mix. The thought is often to truly "mix" the vocals in with
> > > the instruments, but I suggest taking it the other way on, i.e., mixing
> > > the instruments against the voice. The song is the thing, its melody
> > > and lyrics must be clearly heard (or at least clearly sensed: I can't
> >
> > Yup. I used to work a lot with doo woppers. 'Nuff said.
>
> Absolutely. One musician friend of mine has this dreadful tendency to
> flange/chorus everything he does. He thinks this 'fattens up' the sound. I
> keep trying to explain that it in fact does the opposite, it muddies it all
> up into a chorusy wash. The best vocal sound is inevitably the least messed
> about - maybe a little compression and a natural reverb, that's it.
>

Like I used to say "you can't shine shit". Slept on the couch a few times for 
that opinion. ;)

> Best practice seems to be to set the balance of the drums and main vocal
> first and then mix everything else slightly behind, bass first, rhythmic /
> chordal instruments last and usually furthest back. Backing vocals can be
> anything from dry to lost in the wash depending on how close you want the
> harmonies and the mood of the music.
>
> > > usually understand the lyrics to Mudvayne but at least their man is out
> > > front). One of my favorite local musicians made a wonderful album years
> > > ago, but the one mistake he made on it was to mix his voice too deeply
> > > into the instrumental sounds. He told me he wished he hadn't done so,
> > > and that his decision was based on his poor opinion of his own singing.
> > > Sometimes it's best to get another opinion, I guess that's part of the
> > > function of a good producer.
>
> Definitely. The human voice is the closest instrument to our emotions and
> we are all our own worst critics. It's important to get it right as the
> vocals are also the main point of emotional contact in most songs.
> Remember, some of the great stuff about Elvis is when his voice cracks with
> emotion. The way you feel when you record the vocals is what gets
> transferred to the listener - if you feel like you're doing a tightrope
> walk and only just make it to the end or are on the edge of tears, that's
> what the listener will perceive. These are often the 'magic' takes.
>

That's what I like to call "juice". Nothing like a few spirit beads to make it 
real.

> cheers
>
> tim hall
> http://glastonburymusic.org.uk