[linux-audio-user] Preach it! [was: Re: [linux-audio-user] Re: Behringer etc.]

Marek Peteraj marpet at naex.sk
Tue Nov 30 07:20:11 EST 2004

On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 03:17, Mark Knecht wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 19:42:32 -0600, Ryan Gallagher
> <ruinaudio at comcast.net> wrote:
> > On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 00:55 +0100, Marek Peteraj wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2004-11-30 at 20:14, Ryan Gallagher wrote:
> > > Linux users are still a minority and linux audio users
> > > > an even smaller one, downright miniscule.  We should try to stay "real"
> > > > in estimating our tiny presence in this huge industry.
> > >
> > > Ok let's get this straight.  ;)
> > >
> > > (why do we always underestimate ourselves)
> > 
> > Come on... reality check.  The mail lists for
> > Avid->DigiDesign->Pro-Tools alone dwarf LAU.
> I'm pretty sure that the PTLE list for only x86 hardware, which is
> probably closer to what 90% of LAU users are trying to do, dwarfs LAU.
>  Add in Mac PTLE users and it probably doubles or possibly triples. 
> After that the big boys are incremental. There are certainly fewer of
> them, but you can pretty much expect that there are 2 or 3 engineers
> at least from every Pro Tools based studio out there, and there are a
> lot of Pro Tools based studios.
> > 
> > The linux-audio market isn't a fly-fart in sulfur mine to these 2nd tier
> > companies (m-audio et. al.).  They're competing for crumbs from the
> > giant's (digidesign) lap anyway.
> > 
> > > Suppose that each city and perhaps a fairly large town in the US and
> > > Europe has got at least *one* linux audio user.
> > >
> > > Likely? I think so :)
> > >
> > > How much users would that be? Hundreds? More?
> > 
> > Hundreds.  And the money we (LAU's) spend on audio gear in a year per
> > company wouldn't pay the salary of the person who pushes "send" on the
> > "we don't plan support" emails for a month.
> > 
> > > Now let's look at the "tiny" linux audio market. Ask everyone what unit
> > > he has got. I bet it's going to be 2/3rd RME 1/3 Maudio.
> > 
> > I'd venture to guess that if EVERY LAU signed a petition to support only
> > one company in return for drivers/support... it'd mean nothing.  To be
> > honest, I'm grateful for any "support" official or otherwise we get.
> > IMO it's a cheritible act for these profit driven (not meant in a
> > negative way) manufacturers to spend/risk revenue on what is still
> > largely a hobby OS (speaking of linux desktop/audio here only).
> > 
> > > > 1) second the validity of your statements regarding OS representation
> > > > (LAU is a pretty insular community, sometimes it feels bigger than it
> > > > is)
> > >
> > > Sadly it's exactly the opposite.
> > 
> > Bottom line, these companies are not stupid.  They know where the money
> > is, and it ain't on LAU.  If it were, they'd be here too.
> > 
> Yep...however the smart ones look for ways to both incrementally
> increase revenue, and then also to create revolutionary changes. I
> keep thinking that one of these days Digi will come out with a closed
> system that is Linux based and includes the PC itself. Incrementally
> it wouldn't cost them all that much to add a PC to some unit like the
> 002 Rack. Most users would use external audio drives so internal
> storage requiremments aren't that high. They'd have control of the OS
> and it would be stable.
> For the last 6 months PTLE users have been caught in a bind. No PTLE
> versions run on XP Service Pack 2 so all PTLE systems have to stick
> with a bad version of Windows that isn't getting updates. I'm scared
> to do much on the net with my PTLE machine. I don't know why Digi
> hasn't fixed this. I guess it's hard. The plugin vendors have told us
> their plugins aren't stable on SP2 either, so it's a mess.
> But before we totally discount the idea of LAU/Ardour type apps
> failing in comparison to Digi I'm reminded of when I wrote a post
> there and a couple of guys jumped up and started building Planet
> machines to try it out. Problem was it was too hard to build and
> Fernando wasn't supporting it yet. Today they would have a much easier
> time. For fun I answered a year old question in that thread and popped
> it back to the top of the list.
> http://duc.digidesign.com
> Look at the PTLE on Windows forum.
> FYI - There are 48700 registered users of the DigiDesign forums...

So how big would the number of sold units be? I believe that a *lot* of
those customers had at least one problem, registered and asked on their
forums. Dobule or triple the number.

The samller card manufacturers usually deal with smaller numbers.

1000 and growing is a very interesting number to me.
*sigh* Wish i was a card manufacturer. 


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