[linux-audio-user] Re: Free Software vs. Open Source: Where do *you* stand?

[Ross Vandegrift]

On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 09:00:15PM -0600, Jan Depner wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-02-21 at 22:23 -0500, Ross Vandegrift wrote:
> > A song, novel, poem, picture, all have representations that are not
> > integers.  In particular, they are objects (though I contend
> > that the relevant fact is that they are not integers).
> > 
> 
>     Any song, picture, or novel can be represented as an integer or a
> series of numbers in the same way.  Check out Michael F. Barnsley and
> Iterated Fractal Systems.

Here's the thing though (and this will become more clear in my next
paragraph) - a representation of a song/picture/novel/etc *does not
function* as a song/picture/novel/etc.  A computer program is unique
in this aspect - it IS its integral representation.

> > Since there is no difference between some big integer and a computer
> > program, you must defend a copyright against either use.  You have a
> > computer program and I am doing math.  I email you my results, and it
> > contains the number of your program.  I am using your program without
> > a license.  After all, *you have no way to tell that I am not*.
> > 
> 
>     This is so specious it doesn't deserve an answer.  Are you trying to
> say that there is absolutely no creative process involved in
> programming?

Not at all!  I think I wasn't clear with my claim.  I am making a
careful distinction between an actual computer program (ie, the data
that my computer actually executes), and the code that we write when
we program.

> What you're doing is called reverse syllogism.

There are cases when a reverse syllogism is a valid argument.  In
particular, this is a true statement:

>     All programs are an integer.  That is an integer, therefor it is a
> program.

Of course, I never said it was necessarily a useful program.
The problem I see with making a distinction is an epistimological one.
How can you ever tell the difference? [1]

I think I might write a piece of software that demonstrates this.
I've been thinking about.  It's very easy to write a shell script that
prints the integer a program makes.

But I couldn't find anything that does the reverse, because the vast
majority of integers almost certainly don't do anything interesting.
But in principle it should be easy.

>     I definitely accept ownership of software.  If I didn't I certainly
> wouldn't be writing any open source software since ownership and
> copyright of that software is what protects my code from being usurped
> by any company around and used without my permission.  Is that what you
> are advocating, that all software should be public domain so that
> companies that don't release source code can just steal it and hide it
> from you?  Brilliant!

No - I too accept copyrighting of software for pragmatic reasons.  The
reasons you identifed are really good ones.  It's also the status quo
and it's really hard to get by otherwise.

I just find this to be a very difficult arguement to resolve.  When
someone asked about a distinction I've thought about a lot, I thought
I might stick my idea out into the world ::-)

>     A program is an artistic object or at least it can be.  Any program
> that is above the complexity of "Hello World" will be programmed
> differently by any two programmers.  My assumption from reading your
> responses is that you are not a programmer.  I've been programming
> professionally (i.e. I get paid for it) for almost 30 years.

I am a programmer, though not professionally at this point.  My
degree is in mathematics, philosophy, and computer science.  I guess
you've also figured I'm strong on the philosophy ::-)

I don't deny the creativity in software development at all.  I'm just
busy being creative in other ways right now!


[1] You know some logic - are you familiar with the proof of Godel's
Incompleteness Theorem?  If so, we're at the point after arithmetic
has been Godel-numbered: we can no longer distinguish between an
integer and an arithmetic statement.
-- 
Ross Vandegrift
ross at lug.udel.edu

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who
make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians
have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine
man in the bonds of Hell."
	--St. Augustine, De Genesi ad Litteram, Book II, xviii, 37