[linux-audio-user] OT on LAU [was] Digital Fidelity

[tim hall]

Maluvia wrote:
> David, you had me all the way up to this point:
> 
> 
>>And argue with people like Paul Davis on *this very subject* is bound
>>to failure, if not rude.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry, but I just can't go along with this concept that some people are
> off limits to argument, debate, disagreement, criticism or questioning.

Let's remove the 'rude' bit from that sentence. Paul gets respect 
because he knows his stuff, he is _very_ good at arguing his point and 
he is largely responsible for two pieces of software that allow all of 
us on this list to create some incredible pieces of great beauty. The 
pedestal he gets put on is rarely more that 6" high and mostly so the 
back rows can see him too. Deifying people is dumb, mostly people make 
these sort of statements with the intent of expressing respect or thanks 
and I suspect there is a certain amount of dry humour going on as well. 
There are actually quite a few people on this list who Really Fucking 
Know Their Stuff. If you are getting replies from such people, you can 
be assured that you are asking reasonably good questions, even if the 
answers seem impatient. Your answers _seem_ impatient to me. It's easy 
to seem impatient. I should know. ;)

It's not that 'some people are off limits' - it's that some topics of 
conversation are generally considered OT - if I don't actually have all 
morning to carefully consider everyone's postings these are the ones 
that I don't bother reading. The main problem I'm having with your 
postings is that they are so incredibly verbose and take an awful lot of 
reading. Because you clearly do have a high degree of knowledge in the 
audio field, I find myself being drawn into considering your points and 
then personally I get frustrated because I don't understand what on 
earth you are trying to say.

> Perhaps there's some male heirarchical conditioning behind such a notion,
> but I can't accept it.

Yeah, it's called honour codes.

As you must be well aware, the fields of programming and sound 
engineering are horribly male dominated, which is unfortunate as women 
are more strongly conditioned to be good listeners than men. This is no 
more a general rule than saying that men are more honourable, of course.

> If it was not 'rude' or 'disrespectful' to argue with or insult me, then it
> is not rude to argue with Paul, or anyone else on this list.
> As far as I am concerned, every single person on this list is an
> intelligent, accomplished person in their own right, in their own fields of
> endeavor, and deserving of equal respect - and equal scrutiny.
> I also think everyone here is making useful contributions in their own way
> to this community.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

> It has not escaped my notice that certain individuals in this community are
> talked to, and about, with what borders almost on reverence and awe
> (sounding religious again ;) ) - and it makes me squirrelly, and rather
> embarassed.
> However much I may admire and respect someone, I cannot put them up on a
> pedestal - it's just not in my nature.
> I have had occasion in my life to interact with people who are considered
> powerful and famous or highly accomplished and influential in their fields,
> and I haven't felt toward or treated them any differently than I do anyone
> else. (And it has been my feeling that they have preferred it that way.)
> 
> There are many people whom I do not respect, but that has to do with their
> character and conduct - not their rank or station in life, or level of
> achievement in their respective field.
> I am not a respector of class or station or worldly accomplishment - I
> respect people for what they are inside and how they treat others.
> 
> If part of the community consensus here is that certain people are above
> others - for whatever reason - and that they are beyond questioning, I can
> no more fit in here than I did in academia.
> I hope that that is not really the case.
> 
> [Sorry for the rant, but that definitely pushed one of my buttons.] 

Ooh! what does this big shiny red one do? *prod prod*

It is not the case, no.

This list does run at quite a high technical level, when I first signed 
up I thought I'd got LAD by mistake, when the list produces 100+ 
postings some days, we do owe it too each other not to waffle on too 
much, or at least be entertaining. When people say this is not the best 
place for certain topics I would take it as friendly guidance, not as 
any kind of personal comment. Yes, there are quite a lot of shared 
assumptions and jargon to get used to, this is one reason why it is 
always suggested to lurk a bit before posting to a new list, especially 
on such heavyweight topics.

If you hang out here for a bit longer, I think you'll start to really 
appreciate the level of support this list can give.

cheers

tim hall
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