[LAU] OT: metal, money, changes, bleg

Hartmut Noack zettberlin at linuxuse.de
Sun Apr 3 19:54:40 UTC 2011


Am 03.04.2011 18:46, schrieb Patrick Shirkey:
> On 04/04/2011 01:51 AM, Arnold Krille wrote:
>> On Sunday 03 April 2011 10:56:38 Patrick Shirkey wrote:
>>> On 04/02/2011 09:46 PM, Hartmut Noack wrote:
>>>> Am 02.04.2011 05:27, schrieb Patrick Shirkey:
>>>>> more time to enjoy your remaining days on this planet until the
>>>>> nuclear
>>>>> cloud of death from the impending atomic explosion at Fukushima of
>>>>> 1760
>>>>> metric tonnes of radioactive fuel blankets the earth and kills us all.
>>>> Could you elaborate on that?
>>>>
>>>> What makes you think, radioactive fuel could blow up in a "atomic
>>>> explosion"?
>>> What makes you think it couldn't?
>> The fact that there is not enough material there to form a critical mass.
>>
>
> How say you? Has anyone modelled how much non compressed Plutonium is
> required for it to go to critical. Considering that it is melting
> through the earths crust at more than 5000 deg C and it only takes a few
> kilos of fuel to create Kilo Tons of explosive force it is a fairly high
> risk of a worst case scenario whereby the much denser plutonium
> seperates out and goes boom.

No, it would not.
The greatest challenge whe building an atom-bomb is not to get enough 
clean fissable material, It s the the question: "How fast can you raise 
the mass from non-critical to critical?" Any mass of plutonium that 
gathers to a critical mass with the speed that is feasible by mere 
gravitation will simply go off in a *slow* burst of radiation.

That would be catastrophic for the area around the place where this 
happens but it will happen without a explosion.

> Given how bad it is already I would not be
> surprised if it did go to critical and consume the whole facility.

I think it is absolutely unacceptable, that TEPCO did not start to build 
a sarcophagus the first day after the tsunami.


> Although I have it on good authority that it is more likely to just
> explode with the force of a conventional weapon instead.

This could be a simple hydrogen-explosion as had happened 2 days after 
the tsunami. Catastrophic for the area yet not for the whole northern 
hemisphere.

> Even if it only
> makes it to that point it would make a very big mess. I'm hoping for it
> to burn it's way deep enough into the crust so that it will effectively
> be an underground nuclear test if it takes off.

So say we all...

> I shudder to think of
> the results if it is close enough to the surface to escape into the
> atmosphere or ignite the whole facility.

There is nothing to ignite -- concrete does not burn and the fuel in the 
facility is burning already.

>
>
>> The stuff in an atomic reactor is not as clean and dangerous as the
>> stuff needed
>> for an atomic bomb.
>
> There is more than enough Pu-239 in the melted cores each containing 160
> - 180 metric tonnes of fuel to create a serious problem. In addition
> reactor 3 had 5% enriched MOX to start with. That still leaves 890
> metric tonnes of "spent" fuel rods which essentially means lots of
> Pu-239...
>
>> The problem with the reactor material is when something else blows up and
>> spreads the radioactive material like a dirty bomb (this is also what
>> happened
>> 25 years ago).
>
> You mean like on Saturday 12 March or Sunday 13 March? Why do you think
> the Ronald Regan decided to haul arse out of the vicinity and then
> immediately swab the decks? It's not cause they were worried about a
> little Cesium or Iodine that's for sure!
>
>
>> Another problem is that even the non-radioactive plutonium and
>> uran are chemically bad stuff and poisonous for biological things.
>>
>
> Yep. Injesting Pu-239 will poison you first before you get cancer.

The poisoning is the cancer. But: Plutonium has a very high 
melting-point and it is the heaviest material known to be stable, it is 
not good in spreading.

> Just
> see Litvenenko for the results of that problem. However walking into a
> cloud of Cesium or Iodine which is currently blanketing The US and
> Europe will also cause you significant issues.

There is nothing even close to the clouds from the Tchernobyl-desaster 
as of now. And there are people living today even in Kiev. Berlin is as 
near to Tchernobyl as Kyushu is to Fukushima and we are still alive too...

> Remember that just cos
> the total amount of it is dispersed that doesn't mean it was dispersed
> evenly. If I was in the Northern Hemisphere I would be staying away from
> diary, meat and foods grown outside for the next few months and keep in
> mind that Cesium has a half life of 30 years but the full life is more
> like 300 years...

Dont get me wrong: the Fukushima case is indeed a catastrophe, that will 
have its impact upon the whole earth. But it is not a EOTW-event. It is 
one more good reason not to eat sea-fish though. But first and foremost 
it is another evidence for the fact, that buisinessmen have too much 
power in this world.

>
>
>> Carpe diem,
>>
>
> At least time is relative :-)
>
> My heart goes out to the Japanese in this tragedy. They are the ones
> suffering the greatest pain right now.

That is absolutely true. And to say, that this is the End of the world 
does not help them in any way to get along with that desaster.

> It's absolutely categorically
> heart breaking. I don't know how the elite can be so cruel to require
> Fukushima as clandestine weapons program when there are already enough
> nukes to kill us all anyway.

So you see yourself that there is no logic in such a "clandestine 
weapons program" and still believe, there is one?

>
> It just defies all logic and rationale.

exactly

best regards.

>
> Something needs to change! This failed system we call the global
> military industrial complex and their puppet governments is a complete
> disaster!
>
>



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