[LAU] LV2, DSSI and the future of plugins

[rosea.grammostola]

On 01/14/2011 12:32 PM, Louigi Verona wrote:
> Just to add a bit of an insight as a person who basically gave up 
> Linux Audio almost entirely due to the lack of plugins.
>
> The problem, in my opinion, is not in the format itself. The way I see 
> it, there are 3 major problems, in no particular order:
> 1. Lack of documentation and tools that would ease development for LV2 
> and JACK support.
>
> I could, without being a programmer, put together an audio program or 
> even a basic plugin when on Windows. On Linux I couldn't even get 
> started - it is very complex programming and even setting up JACK is 
> not very simple at all. Of course, these are the words of the 
> non-programmer, however, it does say something. Besides, I am not the 
> only one pointing out the lack of documentation and tools for rapid 
> development. A JACK library that would allow to setup JACK support in 
> an application easily, like JACK_Init() would be great, but atm it is 
> not even close to that.
>
> Of course, this point is the weakest point I bring up, I am understand 
> that as a non-programmer I might not make sense here.
>
> 2. Most good plugins on Win and Mac are not just proprietary, they are 
> commercial and their producers offer them for pretty high prices.
>
> It seems to me that most serious VST and VSTi programmers are ready to 
> go into audio development only if they are sure they get paid 
> handsomely. At least, on Linux we have Zyn and now also Phasex, two 
> only serious VSTi-like synths, which get ported all around, while in 
> the VSTi world the amount of synths of such quality and options is 
> more than 2. In fact, much more. Many serious DAWs come bundled with 
> 2-3 of them at the very least and come with a dozen of standard 
> effects like Delay, Reverb, Flanger, Chorus, Phaser, Compressor, EQ, 
> usually of pretty decent quality. On Linux Audio I have difficulty 
> finding a reverb and delay that suit me, CALF being the closest to a 
> good delay.
>
> I don't know if money is the only factor, but it is very much on the 
> surface, the difference in the offerings.
>
> Also, there is a whole bunch of decent freeware VST plugins, but as 
> far as I understand this very much depends on what I said in problem 1 
> - I know several people personally who had made pretty cool effects 
> and synths of a level that is a rarity on Linux, assisted by plugin 
> making tools that ease the development a lot, including GUI development.
>
>
> 3. Not a lot of people in the Linux Audio world seem to care much 
> about that particular type of music that requires a lot of synths and 
> fancy effects.
>
> On my site I wrote an article which many people have probably read, as 
> I referred to it often, which makes a distinction between two types of 
> music from a production point of view 
> (http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projects&s=writings&t=linux&a=linux_types 
> <http://www.louigiverona.ru/?page=projects&s=writings&t=linux&a=linux_types>).
>
> It seems to me that this, by far, is the most important reason Linux 
> Audio does not have a lot of plugins - most musicians (many of them 
> being developers at the same time) here simply do not need them. They 
> record their guitars and vocals and are pretty happy. And those people 
> that do need lots of fancy plugins, come to Linux, hang around, see 
> that nothing is in the store and leave.
>
> Again, I think that this is the main reason. If a lot of people would 
> be here who need a delay plugin with many options or a serious reverb 
> or whatever - it would pop up. Atm - I don't get a sense of that need. 
> And last year when I was very actively researching what Linux Audio 
> can offer, it seemed to be I was the only person who talked about 
> electronic music and the need for fancy effects. Obviously, I am not 
> the only one in question, but I am part of a very minor group, that's 
> for sure.
>
@Louigi, People suggested you to learn SuperCollider, which you didn't 
like because of the difficulty and time you have to invest to learn it.

But a while ago I came with the suggestion / idea to make plugins out of 
Supercollider code. There seems to be some kind of Csound to LADSPA 
plugin format / host, and there is SuperCollder to VST iirc.
Faust would be another option for such kind of stuff.

Anyway, here is that discussion 
http://lalists.stanford.edu/lau/2009/09/0447.html

Regards,

\r