20 Apr
2012
20 Apr
'12
12:02 p.m.
On Fri, April 20, 2012 11:10 am, Daniel James wrote:
Sure, we can have our own tracking/analytics if we choose to. I haven't
made any plans for any analytics or tracking but I think we have an
opportunity to provide a complete solution for any member of the community
to integrate into their website and help the channel expand. That would
have to come at a later date though and would be dependant on making some
cash first.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
Hi Patrick,
I don't see how advertising on some of the subdomains will stop any of
those institutions from continuing to support the goals of the Consortium.
If that was the case then all Universities would have to do *everything*
using not for profit solutions. I seriously doubt that the Universities of
the world want people and businesses to do everything for free. While that
is a personal political choice should the Consortium have a political
agenda against capitalism?
>> I would like to proceed with this first
"customer" and will need
>> to migrate the subdomains to the new location first.
I agree with Ico that the value of the support and goodwill that we have
from Virginia Tech and other educational institutions is far higher than
what we could reasonably expect to earn from Internet advertising.
If there are new companies that would like to support
our work, there
are other ways for them to do that - such as becoming an active member
of the consortium, hosting LAC, sponsoring conference trips and the
like. This will earn them more kudos than advertising, which would have
a pretty low response rate anyway. Free Software developers don't buy
much, they build what they need instead :-)
We should be offering those options already as that would give them access
to our immediate community. How then do we let the world know about their
support? One standard way is to provide promotional opportunities across
our online content.
Advertising and online promotions through a Linux Digital channel will
give companies exposure to anyone who happens to drop by any of the online
locations we place their advertisements. If we are going to restrict
ourselves to only focusing on institutions and people who are already part
of the community then we are missing a big opportunity for growth.
While a large part of the Linux Audio community is built on the efforts
and support of Universities and volunteers it seems like cutting our nose
to spite our face by restricting ourselves from providing support and
marketing opportunities to businesses that want to have that brand
association or leverage off the SEO potential from our combined and
continuing efforts on building out our content over the years.
The online video channel idea sounds like it could be
viable, but
looking at the economics of YouTube advertising and what it takes to
become a content partner there, I don't think our existing community is
large enough to make it pay.
Youtube advertising relies on mass market principals. Our core "selling"
point is that we have valuable brand association. This gives us the
ability to set specific rates for allowing companies to associate their
brand with ours. Another opportunity we present is access to a dedicated
bunch of eyeballs. However it will work to our advantage too if we have
highly recognised brands associated with our content. Whether you like it
or not people who are new to Linux Audio will feel more confident in
taking a leap if they see brands they recognise.
I would suggest looking at creating video tutorials on
cross-platform
Free Software like Ardour or Audacity as a related possibility. See:
http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=82839#AU
That could be useful but I don't have the time to make many videos myself
at the moment. However there is scope for other people to contribute
content for this purpose. There is already a lot out there in that regard
but I haven't had the time to collate it all and post it anywhere. I have
considered a section on lmv for tutorials but I am leaning towards a new
subdomain for that purpose. i.e journal.lao
You may need permission from software authors to
monetize videos
containing screenshots (there is no allowance for Free Software in the
policy):
http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=138161
That is a very unusual take on things. It might become an issue but I see
that as a very low risk. If anyone was upset about their software being
used to make videos or articles that are also hosted on sites with paid
advertising then we could provide a contact form for them to get in touch
with us for removal.
Did you or Dave have any issues with clearing rights for screenshots in
the books and articles that you have published professionally? That would
be useful information for an FAQ.
> Next to
that, my personal take on advertising on linuaudio.org is that
> the Net is already crippled with ads. Online marketing techniques come
> with strings attached such as the general development of pervasive
> tracking systems
I agree that Aymeric made a good point there.
20 Apr
20 Apr
9:23 p.m.
New subject: Advertising Policy - linuxaudio.org
if i may:
i share ico's sentiments expressed earlier in this thread, and also
aymeric's wrt to advertising on the net.
let's not go there. the whole thing is a bureaucratic nightmare and the
prospective gains are in no relation to the pain.
as an aside: even though i'm perfectly willing to accept patrick's
judgment about the reputation of the company that is interested in
advertising, i find this request in particular a bit shady: the page in
question is totally obsolete, and to use it as an advertising platform
just because of its search engine visibility seems a very questionable
thing to do. SEO is (not only in my book) the second greatest evil on
the net after spamming, and i'm totally opposed to supporting it or
making any money off it.
if there is any need for pocket money (and so far, this is what we're
talking about), i'm perfectly willing to shell out, say, 50 USD a year
to meet any operational costs of *.linuxaudio.org which are not covered
by the donation of manpower or bandwidth from vt.
best,
jörn
--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487
Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
21 Apr
21 Apr
12:53 a.m.
New subject: Advertising Policy - linuxaudio.org
On Fri, April 20, 2012 11:21 pm, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
if i may:
i share ico's sentiments expressed earlier in this thread, and also
aymeric's wrt to advertising on the net.
Do you dislike all advertising or just advertising that is on the web?
What specific issues do you have with web advertising. It would be helpful
for building policy guidelines.
So far we have identified these concerns:
1: Tracking
2: Offending existing non corporate sponsors - Is this really an issue?
which sponsors would stop supporting Linux Audio if we allowed advertising
on specific sub domains? Don't Universities receive corporate funding
anymore? Does that mean all bars and nightclubs that host Linux Musicians
should also stop taking sponsorship to make ends meet? How far do we go if
we decide that advertising is not an acceptable way of generating funds
for consortium requirements?
let's not go there. the whole thing is a
bureaucratic nightmare and the
prospective gains are in no relation to the pain.
What is the pain exactly?
There are just a few things that need to be done in order to make this
happen.
1: Allow select subdomains to be hosted on different servers. So far no
one seems to have a specific problem with that request.
2: Agree on a policy that sets specific guidelines for the kinds of
advertising we would be prepared to accept. Just a simple discussion that
can be had over the coming weeks/months.
3: Agree on a way to manage any income received. Pretty simple process as
far as I can tell and doesn't require anyone else to make any effort at
all.
4: Populate some pages with links/ads that meet our guidelines. Again this
does not require anyone else's effort or time.
5: Get on with our lives and see where the experiment takes us over the
next decade or so.
as an aside: even though i'm perfectly willing to
accept patrick's
judgment about the reputation of the company that is interested in
advertising, i find this request in particular a bit shady: the page in
question is totally obsolete, and to use it as an advertising platform
just because of its search engine visibility seems a very questionable
thing to do. SEO is (not only in my book) the second greatest evil on
the net after spamming, and i'm totally opposed to supporting it or
making any money off it.
SEO is simply a way to increase page ranking. It is a perfectly legitimate
business practice and doesn't have to be spam. The page is an old page
with a lot of useful keywords and a high ranking which makes it a viable
location to place a link. This ad in particular is a single text link and
would cause minimal impact on the content. In addition it has only been
requested for a period of 1 year.
if there is any need for pocket money (and so far,
this is what we're
talking about), i'm perfectly willing to shell out, say, 50 USD a year
to meet any operational costs of *.linuxaudio.org which are not covered
by the donation of manpower or bandwidth from vt.
I concede that this particular offer is a small start but the discussion
is not about having pocket money for server maintainance at LAO. It about
allowing ourselves to generate an income by leveraging some content that
is hosted under the LAO domain as a product rather than a gratis service
to the community. All the content I am proposing as suitable has been
carefully compiled by me over the past 10 years and is released to the
public domain.
I don't see how advertising on *some of the subdomains/content* that we
host is going to ruin our reputation. It is simply a way to increase
funding and could actually motivate people to make more active
contributions if we are able to reward them financially for their efforts
instead of expecting everyone to work for free. That is a nice thing to do
but not everyone has the luxury of having enough time/money to volunteer.
Considering the state of the economy and that there are several people in
the community that we could potentially help make ends meet if we had a
regular flow of income to keep them motivated I think it is a callous
disregard for our potential as a community focused organisation if we
restrict ourselves to the high ground and expect people to do everything
for the love of it.
By the way I don't see anyone complaining when companies like Ableton
sponsor events like the LAC and plaster their name everywhere. If anything
people were very happy with that association and have even gone so far as
to publish the keynote from the director of Ableton explaining why he
*will never support* a Linux version of Ableton Live.
We have a clear track record of allowing advertising and taking money from
audio companies that wanted to support us financially so why should we be
worried about ads on some of the subdomains. Especially if these pages are
considered old and unuseful which clearly is wrong if we expand the
allowable uses for content hosted under the LAO domain.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
9:29 p.m.
New subject: Advertising Policy - linuxaudio.org
Patrick,
Arguably the only reason you have someone interested in putting ads on your page is
because it is a part of the linuxaudio.org ecosystem that typically gets over 1TB of
traffic every month. If you wish to do your own page/domain that is fine but you cannot
put ads on a page that is even remotely associated with the University as that would imply
that the University endorses the said ads and that is simply not the case at all.
More so, even if the current ad is marginally acceptable those can change at any point in
time and as such cannot be easily controlled and even more importantly have to be
continually monitored.
Long story short, if you wish to try to make some money with ads, please register a
separate domain (which I believe you already have) and do whatever you wish to do with
them. Based on the majority of the consortium members the current linuxaudio.org site will
remain ad-free.
HTH
Ico
-----Original Message-----
From: consortium-bounces(a)lists.linuxaudio.org [mailto:consortium-
bounces(a)lists.linuxaudio.org] On Behalf Of Patrick Shirkey
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 6:00 AM
To: consortium(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
Subject: Re: [Consortium] Advertising Policy - linuxaudio.org
On Fri, April 20, 2012 11:10 am, Daniel James wrote:
That could be useful but I don't have the time to make many videos
myself
at the moment. However there is scope for other people to contribute
content for this purpose. There is already a lot out there in that regard
but I haven't had the time to collate it all and post it anywhere. I have
considered a section on lmv for tutorials but I am leaning towards a new
subdomain for that purpose. i.e journal.lao
> You may need permission from software authors to monetize videos
> containing screenshots (there is no allowance for Free Software in the
> policy):
http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=1381
61
That is a very unusual take on things. It might become an issue but I see
that as a very low risk. If anyone was upset about their software being
used to make videos or articles that are also hosted on sites with paid
advertising then we could provide a contact form for them to get in
touch
with us for removal.
Did you or Dave have any issues with clearing rights for screenshots in
the books and articles that you have published professionally? That
would
be useful information for an FAQ.
> I agree that Aymeric made a good
point there.
Sure, we can have our own tracking/analytics if we choose to. I haven't
made any plans for any analytics or tracking but I think we have an
opportunity to provide a complete solution for any member of the
community
to integrate into their website and help the channel expand. That would
have to come at a later date though and would be dependant on
making some
cash first.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
_______________________________________________
Consortium mailing list
Consortium(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/consortium
Hi Patrick,
have
>> I would like to proceed with this first
"customer" and will need
>> to migrate the subdomains to the new location first.
I agree with Ico that the value of the support and goodwill that we from Virginia Tech and other educational
institutions is far higher than
what we could reasonably expect to earn from Internet advertising.
I don't see how advertising on some of the subdomains will stop any of
those institutions from continuing to support the goals of the Consortium.
If that was the case then all Universities would have to do *everything*
using not for profit solutions. I seriously doubt that the Universities of
the world want people and businesses to do everything for free. While
that
is a personal political choice should the Consortium have a political
agenda against capitalism?
If there are new companies that would like to
support our work, there
are other ways for them to do that - such as becoming an active
member
of the consortium, hosting LAC, sponsoring
conference trips and the
like. This will earn them more kudos than advertising, which would have
a pretty low response rate anyway. Free Software developers don't buy
much, they build what they need instead :-)
We should be offering those options already as that would give them
access
to our immediate community. How then do we let the world know about
their
support? One standard way is to provide promotional opportunities
across
our online content.
Advertising and online promotions through a Linux Digital channel will
give companies exposure to anyone who happens to drop by any of the
online
locations we place their advertisements. If we are going to restrict
ourselves to only focusing on institutions and people who are already
part
of the community then we are missing a big opportunity for growth.
While a large part of the Linux Audio community is built on the efforts
and support of Universities and volunteers it seems like cutting our nose
to spite our face by restricting ourselves from providing support and
marketing opportunities to businesses that want to have that brand
association or leverage off the SEO potential from our combined and
continuing efforts on building out our content over the years.
The online video channel idea sounds like it
could be viable, but
looking at the economics of YouTube advertising and what it takes to
become a content partner there, I don't think our existing community is
large enough to make it pay.
Youtube advertising relies on mass market principals. Our core "selling"
point is that we have valuable brand association. This gives us the
ability to set specific rates for allowing companies to associate their
brand with ours. Another opportunity we present is access to a
dedicated
bunch of eyeballs. However it will work to our advantage too if we have
highly recognised brands associated with our content. Whether you like it
or not people who are new to Linux Audio will feel more confident in
taking a leap if they see brands they recognise.
I would suggest looking at creating video
tutorials on cross-platform
Free Software like Ardour or Audacity as a related possibility. See:
http://support.google.com/youtube/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=8283
9#AU
>> Next to that, my personal take on
advertising on linuaudio.org is that
>> the Net is already crippled with ads. Online marketing techniques
come
>>> with strings attached such as the general development of pervasive
>>> tracking systems
10:09 p.m.
New subject: Advertising Policy - linuxaudio.org
On 04/21/2012 02:53 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Bureaucratic overhead.
[..]
On Fri, April 20, 2012 11:21 pm, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
> if i may:
>
>
> i share ico's sentiments expressed earlier in this thread, and also
> aymeric's wrt to advertising on the net.
+1
Do you dislike all advertising or just advertising
that is on the web?
/me dislikes all advertisements. They're evil, deception, brainwash,
corruption,..
If I want to find information, I go ask for it; I don't want it pushed
on me by the one who pays most.
<ot>
Belgium and France have recently banned public commercial ads with the
reasoning that a person has the right to roam the public space free of
[commercial] interest. IOW Everyone must have "equal freedom of opinion
and speech" regardless of funding. The only ads currently remaining in
Paris are for cultural benefit (cinema, exhibitions, TV, language
classes, telco and - of course in France - wine, food & cognac :)
In Paris audience-counting-devices are banned by law and illuminated
advertising of all forms is restricted. This makes the city a much nicer
place!
I hope other countries will follow, and I do oppose public community
sites - such as linuxaudio.org - with ads.
</ot>
[..]
let's not
go there. the whole thing is a bureaucratic nightmare and the
prospective gains are in no relation to the pain.
What is the pain exactly? SEO is simply a way to increase page ranking. It is a
perfectly legitimate
business practice
There are a lot of perfectly legitimate business practices that I deem
to be immoral or unjust and those should not be encouraged or supported.
..another drop in the ocean.
I don't see how advertising on *some of the
subdomains/content* that we
host is going to ruin our reputation.
IMHO it's not about reputation. It's about the ideals and standards that
we want for the LA community. The message to companies should be:
"We don't want your money, we want your support, your cooperation and
compliance. - We're happy to link to your site - esp. if it offers
useful information, specs or software - but we won't sell links."
Considering the state of the economy and that there
are several people in
the community that we could potentially help make ends meet if we had a
regular flow of income to keep them motivated I think it is a callous
disregard for our potential as a community focused organisation if we
restrict ourselves to the high ground and expect people to do everything
for the love of it.
Love and enthusiasm is the basis for any successful project, commercial
or not. I also seriously doubt that we could even pay half a full-time
developer with advertisement campaigns: our ~35k unique visitors per
month don't wag the tail of any industry.
http://stats.linuxaudio.org/cgi-bin/awstats.pl?config=total
There are quite a few LAO developers who manage to get a steady income
with linux audio -- linuxaudio.org however is a x-project community
portal. The knowledge exchanged on LAO is worth a lot more than
advertising could pay for.
By the way I don't see anyone complaining when
companies like Ableton
sponsor events like the LAC and plaster their name everywhere.
As I said before, the support was for the institution that hosts LAC,
not linuxaudio.org itself. In case of LAC, linuxaudio.org provides
hosting for the event which has always been under the auspices of
someone else. In most cases the commercial support was also made by
contributing equipment, bandwidth, etc and was very rarely a monetary
contribution.
nitpicking: the contributions were are also _not for advertising_, but
for _supporting the conference_. - From the contacts that I know they
were paid using HR and/or Support budget - not advertisement-budget - of
the companies in question.
If anything
people were very happy with that association and have even gone so far as
to publish the keynote from the director of Ableton explaining why he
*will never support* a Linux version of Ableton Live.
[citation needed]
I'm curious. I've been at LAC'07 and while I remember a panel
discussion, I don't recall a keynote with that message.
Anyway why is this bad? It's good to know the POV of others - especially
if you do not agree with them.
We have a clear track record of allowing advertising
and taking money
Certainly not. If anything: we take specs, bandwidth and time as
donations and thank by mentioning the donor.
Especially if these pages are
considered old and unuseful which clearly is wrong if we expand the
allowable uses for content hosted under the LAO domain.
I disagree. It'd be a step backwards.
In a commercial context, you'd need to shell out at least 500-5000 times
the money per year of what you have been offered so far to even come
close to what we currently have.
2 cents,
robin
22 Apr
22 Apr
2:34 a.m.
New subject: Advertising Policy - linuxaudio.org
On Sun, April 22, 2012 12:09 am, Robin Gareus wrote:
Perhaps Jorn can provide the link?
To what exactly?
nitpicking: the contributions were are also _not for advertising_, but
for _supporting the conference_. - From the contacts that I know they
were paid using HR and/or Support budget - not advertisement-budget - of
the companies in question.
So advertising is acceptable as long as it is not actually paid for?
If anything
people were very happy with that association and have even gone so far
as
to publish the keynote from the director of Ableton explaining why he
*will never support* a Linux version of Ableton Live.
[citation needed]
I'm curious. I've been at LAC'07 and while I remember a panel
discussion, I don't recall a keynote with that message.
Perhaps keynote was the incorrect term. However as the conference was
almost entirely "sponsored" by Ableton and the director of Ableton made a
speech where he explained very clearly his reasons for not wanting a Linux
version of Ableton Live it would appear to have the weight of a keynote
speech.
Anyway why is this bad? It's good to know the POV
of others - especially
if you do not agree with them.
I'm not saying it was "bad". I was merely pointing out that Linux Audio
has taken funds in exchange for advertising in the past. Even from
companies that were promoting an "anti Linux" agenda.
We have a
clear track record of allowing advertising and taking money
Certainly not. If anything: we take specs, bandwidth and time as
donations and thank by mentioning the donor.
Especially if
these pages are
considered old and unuseful which clearly is wrong if we expand the
allowable uses for content hosted under the LAO domain.
I disagree. It'd be a step backwards. In a commercial context, you'd need to shell out
at least 500-5000 times
the money per year of what you have been offered so far to even come
close to what we currently have.
So what you are saying is that advertising at LAO is so evil as to be not
worth any time or effort in that regard?
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
2:47 a.m.
New subject: Advertising Policy - linuxaudio.org
On Sat, April 21, 2012 11:29 pm, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
Patrick,
Arguably the only reason you have someone interested in putting ads on
your page is because it is a part of the linuxaudio.org ecosystem that
typically gets over 1TB of traffic every month.
I'm pretty sure that is the entire reason. So now this *is* my page? In
that case what does it matter if we host it on a different webserver?
If you wish to do your own
page/domain that is fine but you cannot put ads on a page that is even
remotely associated with the University as that would imply that the
University endorses the said ads and that is simply not the case at all.
How exactly does that imply the University endorses the ads? By your
reasoning anything that is written by anyone who has anything to do with
Linux Audio would have to be supported by the University.
Considering that we have a solution for moving a couple of subdomains to a
new server we could also provide a disclaimer on any page that had
advertising to say...
"The contents of this page are not endorsed or supported by Virginia Tech
and the pages are not hosted by Virginia Tech and the domain is not owned
by Virginia Tech either."
I find your reasoning to be reactive and irrational.
More so, even if the current ad is marginally
acceptable those can change
at any point in time and as such cannot be easily controlled and even more
importantly have to be continually monitored.
You haven't even found out what the ad is yet but you have made a
prejudiced judgement. Does your remit mean you get to make these kinds of
calls on behalf of the Consortium?
Irrational and prejudiced?
Long story short, if you wish to try to make some
money with ads, please
register a separate domain (which I believe you already have) and do
whatever you wish to do with them. Based on the majority of the consortium
members the current linuxaudio.org site will remain ad-free.
So far there are only a few people who have actually contributed to this
discussion. What makes you feel that it is a majority?
Where is your justification for this conclusion?
I'm very interested in the reasons that people have for being anti
advertising. If advertising is so evil why do we allow it at all on any of
the LAO pages or events associated with the consortium ?
Surely that is a double standard and extremely hypocritical.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
7:59 a.m.
New subject: Advertising Policy - linuxaudio.org
On 21.04.2012 23:29, Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote:
if you wish to try to make some money with ads,
please register a separate domain (which I believe
you already have) and do whatever you wish to
do with them.
Let me add that neither that domain nor the content should
create the impression that they are endorsed by Linuxaudio.org.
Based on the majority of the consortium members the
current
linuxaudio.org site will remain ad-free.
+1 (probably nonbinding)
Hopefully that discussion will now end.
Cheers,
Andreas
9:17 a.m.
New subject: Advertising Policy - linuxaudio.org
On 04/22/2012 04:34 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Perhaps Jorn can provide the link?
FWIW, the conference site in question is _not_ hosted on linuxaudio.org.
we do link and proxy-redirect to the site which is hosted at TU-Berlin.
we do keep a mirror of it - just in case - because we deem the content
(papers, proceedings) valuable.
No, the TU-Berlin has taken funds. linuxaudio.org offered free-hosting
for the event.
best,
robin
On Sun, April 22, 2012 12:09 am, Robin Gareus wrote:
again: it is not advertising. We do link to sites that support the cause
- and usually do so using <a rel="external"> which - to some extend -
defeats SEO. we're also free to remove the links if we wish to do so.
Certainly it's not a black/white issue. The boundary between
referencing, thanking and advertising is a gray area.
We try hard to maintain a reasonable approach. e.g. avoid user-tracking,
don't agree to any obligations, maintain freedom about content and links
to 3rd parties that we post and apply common-sense instead of hard policy.
nitpicking: the contributions were are also _not for advertising_, but
for _supporting the conference_. - From the contacts that I know they
were paid using HR and/or Support budget - not advertisement-budget - of
the companies in question.
So advertising is acceptable as long as it is not actually paid for? If anything
people were very happy with that association and have even gone so far
as
to publish the keynote from the director of Ableton explaining why he
*will never support* a Linux version of Ableton Live.
[citation needed]
I'm curious. I've been at LAC'07 and while I remember a panel
discussion, I don't recall a keynote with that message.
Perhaps keynote was the incorrect term. However as the conference was
almost entirely "sponsored" by Ableton and the director of Ableton made a
speech where he explained very clearly his reasons for not wanting a Linux
version of Ableton Live it would appear to have the weight of a keynote
speech. Anyway why is
this bad? It's good to know the POV of others - especially
if you do not agree with them.
I'm not saying it was "bad". I was merely pointing out that Linux Audio
has taken funds in exchange for advertising in the past. Even from
companies that were promoting an "anti Linux" agenda.
9:40 a.m.
New subject: Advertising Policy - linuxaudio.org
On Sun, April 22, 2012 11:17 am, Robin Gareus wrote:
Perhaps Jorn can provide the link?
FWIW, the conference site in question is _not_ hosted on linuxaudio.org.
we do link and proxy-redirect to the site which is hosted at TU-Berlin.
we do keep a mirror of it - just in case - because we deem the content
(papers, proceedings) valuable.
I was not aware of the mirror but that is pretty funny really.
No, the TU-Berlin has taken funds. linuxaudio.org offered free-hosting
for the event.
Ok, so it was fine for TU-Berlin to present copious amounts of advertising
in exchange for sponsorship funds but linuxaudio.org is supposed to do
everything on a volunteer basis because of goodwill?
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
On 04/22/2012 04:34 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
So it's not advertising but it is a grey area and people could be confused
about it? Promoting other companies and organisations is a form of
marketing. That it was not directly paid for does not make it any less of
a promotion.
On Sun, April 22, 2012 12:09 am, Robin Gareus wrote:
again: it is not advertising. We do link to sites that support the cause
- and usually do so using <a rel="external"> which - to some extend -
defeats SEO. we're also free to remove the links if we wish to do so.
Certainly it's not a black/white issue. The boundary between
referencing, thanking and advertising is a gray area.
nitpicking: the contributions were are also _not for advertising_, but
for _supporting the conference_. - From the contacts that I know they
were paid using HR and/or Support budget - not advertisement-budget -
of
the companies in question.
So advertising is acceptable as long as it is not actually paid for? We try hard to maintain a reasonable approach. e.g.
avoid user-tracking,
don't agree to any obligations, maintain freedom about content and links
to 3rd parties that we post and apply common-sense instead of hard policy.
This is an interesting way to explain things.
Perhaps this paragraph above could become the official advertising policy
for LAO so that we can all know where we stand. The knee jerk reaction so
far does not provide a professional minded approach to the issue.
If anything
people were very happy with that association and have even gone so far
as
to publish the keynote from the director of Ableton explaining why he
*will never support* a Linux version of Ableton Live.
[citation needed]
I'm curious. I've been at LAC'07 and while I remember a panel
discussion, I don't recall a keynote with that message.
Perhaps keynote was the incorrect term. However as the conference was
almost entirely "sponsored" by Ableton and the director of Ableton made
a
speech where he explained very clearly his reasons for not wanting a
Linux
version of Ableton Live it would appear to have the weight of a keynote
speech. Anyway why is this bad? It's good to know the POV
of others -
especially
if you do not agree with them.
I'm not saying it was "bad". I was merely pointing out that Linux Audio
has taken funds in exchange for advertising in the past. Even from
companies that were promoting an "anti Linux" agenda.
4:53 p.m.
New subject: Advertising Policy - linuxaudio.org
On 04/22/2012 11:40 AM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
I was not aware of the mirror but that is pretty funny
really.
<...>
Ok, so it was fine for TU-Berlin to present copious
amounts of advertising
in exchange for sponsorship funds but linuxaudio.org is supposed to do
everything on a volunteer basis because of goodwill?
can you please stop this?
whatever tu berlin or any other LAC host in the past has has decided to
do in order to host lac
a) is their ultimately their business
b) was always handled in a way which provided a great benefit to the
linux audio community
c) is certainly not correctly described by "copious amounts of advertising".
your rhetoric is clearly bending the facts here, and i find it quite
offensive towards the people who have invested many many hours of work
into hosting LACs.
it's also totally beside the point. nobody here except you has so far
spoken in favour of advertising on the *.linuxaudio.org sites. we could
deal certainly deal with this by invoking the consortium governance
structures that exist, but at this point it doesn't even seem to me
there is enough interest to put it onto the agenda in the first place.
can't we just put this to rest, and you can then pursue this idea privately?
--
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Lortzingstr. 11, 45128 Essen, Tel. +49 177 7937487
Meister für Veranstaltungstechnik (Bühne/Studio)
Tonmeister VDT
http://stackingdwarves.net
4804
days inactive
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consortium@lists.linuxaudio.org
10 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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Andreas Kuckartz -
Ivica Ico Bukvic -
Jörn Nettingsmeier -
Patrick Shirkey -
Robin Gareus