25 Oct
2008
25 Oct
'08
7:40 a.m.
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Hey Linuxaudio.org'ers,
It's been a while, and we're behind several announcements..
First of all: linuxaudio.org is doing fine.
Second I'll briefly mention a statement of our Director:
Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote : "We need to start thinking about the function
of the management board. This aspect has been all but dead. How about we
announce restructuring of the board and go from there? My suggestion is
to retain the core of those of us who are most active and then add key
figures in the community who will be active contributors to our cause."
No surprise there. Further discussion may or may not follow on
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/consortium/ - and last but not least:
Holger Ballweg has stepped forward and done an amazing job updating
http://apps.linuxaudio.org/. We went on to http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/
which is finally due an official announcement:
* http://wiki.linuxaudio.org
open to public (openID/CAPTCHA)
Everybody is welcome to use this wiki for gnu/Linux and FLOSS audio
related projects or communication. Feel free to ask for additional
permissions or plugins. - send your project application or suggestions
to LAD, start writing a wiki page about it or send a patch ;)
We would like to support maintained and moderated namespaces adopted by
members of the community; balancing http://linuxaudio.org/members in
favor of interest groups. We have neither intentions nor budget to take
on wiki.ubuntu.com or wikipedia. Commercial interest is tolerated.
Professional interest in linux-audio is more or less a prerequisite. The
usual exceptions apply for Music, Art, etc. see http://linuxaudio.org/policy
..and we're not going to stop there.
Here's a quick overview of HTTP services, vhosts and tasks. Any comments
and suggestions are appreciated; as is help getting there:
* http://lad.linuxaudio.org - will be consolidated into drupal
(www.linuxaudio.org) and wiki.linuxaudio.org. - Apart from the
http://lad.linuxaudio.org/events/ (lots of pictures and media) there's
only 16 HTML pages. - similarly lowlatency.linuxaudio.org should become
an entry-point to the wiki.
* http://lad.linuxaudio.org/events/ should be merged with
http://lac.linuxaudio.org
* http://portal.linuxaudio.org, http://linuxaudio.org,
http://lac.linuxaudio.org/
Drupal CMS is edited and maintained by the consortium.
We're urgently looking for 2-5 Content Maintainers (and Guitarists) so
that some of us can take a holiday break.
Besides in the longer term we're looking for volunteers to summarize or
comment on a LAD/LAU thread once in a while, and editors to write short
articles in the likes of kerneltrap.org.
* http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/ is actually the same as
http://apps.linuxaudio.org/wiki/ - vhosts will be merged, redirect..
linuxaudio.org is going to stick to /international english/ for wiki
pages - We'll gladly link to non-english LAO sites - If you're in need
we can provide hosting or bandwidth/mirroring solutions for these.
* http://apps.linuxaudio.org/wiki/request
bookmarklet in beta test. Easy way to submit new apps.
* http://lau.linuxaudio.org and http://quicktoots.linuxaudio.org/
probably remain as is. There are a lot of hidden resources there! -
Maybe some minor updates on the front-page. point to the wiki or portal.
* http://ladspavst.linuxaudio.org/ - great as it is.
* http://ccmixter.linuxaudio.org - for a short time.around
http://www.linuxaudio.org/mailarchive/lau/2007/11/15 we set up a
bare-bone ccmixter.org intended for Music-Made-With-Linux. Should you
desire to style and maintain a ccmixter community: here's your chance.
* http://radio.linuxaudio.org/
Anyone interested? shall we stream random songs from lam.fugal.net ?!
repeat talks from the LAC? or better no-stream than some weird random mix?
* for http://forum.linuxaudio.org/ we started collaboration with
http://linuxmusicians.com/
If you don't like the current style/template: We're challenging
web-designers to come up with a better one.
The consortium-site is a http://drupal.org ; apps & wiki a
http://dokuwiki.org CMS. - get in contact with us on the LAD mailing list.
thanks for your attention,
robin for the linuxaudio.org team.
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25 Oct
25 Oct
8:33 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] linuxaudio.org
On Sat, 2008-10-25 at 11:40 +0200, Robin Gareus wrote:
Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote : "We need to start
thinking about the function
of the management board. This aspect has been all but dead. How about we
announce restructuring of the board and go from there? My suggestion is
to retain the core of those of us who are most active and then add key
figures in the community who will be active contributors to our cause."
No surprise there. Further discussion may or may not follow on
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/consortium/ - and last but not least:
Seems that belongs on the consortium list and shouldn't be on LAD and
LAU!?
* http://wiki.linuxaudio.org
open to public (openID/CAPTCHA)
Everybody is welcome to use this wiki for gnu/Linux and FLOSS audio
related projects or communication. Feel free to ask for additional
permissions or plugins. - send your project application or suggestions
to LAD, start writing a wiki page about it or send a patch ;)
Nice.
We would like to support maintained and moderated
namespaces adopted by
members of the community; balancing http://linuxaudio.org/members in
favor of interest groups. We have neither intentions nor budget to take
on wiki.ubuntu.com or wikipedia. Commercial interest is tolerated.
Professional interest in linux-audio is more or less a prerequisite. The
usual exceptions apply for Music, Art, etc. see http://linuxaudio.org/policy
I'm not sure what you are talking about here and highly suspect others
will be even more puzzled. Balancing?
Regarding namespaces (nice example of coder speak not suitable for a
general audience), I see it as a problem that linuxaudio.org web
presence is so fractured already.
..and we're not going to stop there.
Here's a quick overview of HTTP services, vhosts and tasks. Any comments
and suggestions are appreciated; as is help getting there:
* http://lad.linuxaudio.org - will be consolidated into drupal
(www.linuxaudio.org) and wiki.linuxaudio.org. - Apart from the
http://lad.linuxaudio.org/events/ (lots of pictures and media) there's
only 16 HTML pages. - similarly lowlatency.linuxaudio.org should become
an entry-point to the wiki.
* http://lad.linuxaudio.org/events/ should be merged with
http://lac.linuxaudio.org
Consider conference.linuxaudio.org or conf.linuxaudio.org. Redundant
redundancy department / cryptic abbrev. ;)
* http://portal.linuxaudio.org,
http://linuxaudio.org,
http://lac.linuxaudio.org/
Drupal CMS is edited and maintained by the consortium.
I actually think portal shouldn't exist. Should be just a list of links
reachable from linuxaudio.org . Like it is, but the link name "Portal"
doesn't cut it. Maybe "Ressources"?
We're urgently looking for 2-5 Content Maintainers
(and Guitarists) so
that some of us can take a holiday break.
I suspect writing a long and partly confusing email while assuming
everyone already knows what this is all about and what you want to
accomplish is not the best way to invite contributors.
Besides in the longer term we're looking for
volunteers to summarize or
comment on a LAD/LAU thread once in a while, and editors to write short
articles in the likes of kerneltrap.org.
* http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/ is actually the same as
http://apps.linuxaudio.org/wiki/ - vhosts will be merged, redirect..
One of the URLs will be dropped? Which one? I though one is an open wiki
for content that is not necessarily tied to single applications and the
other a directory of linux audio applications?
* http://lau.linuxaudio.org and
http://quicktoots.linuxaudio.org/
probably remain as is. There are a lot of hidden resources there! -
Maybe some minor updates on the front-page. point to the wiki or portal.
Ah yes, the fragmentation. _Hidden_ resources are great for Indiana
Jones style explorers, I guess? ;)
I would rather drop old material to have a chance of introducing
something structured, where a newcomer would know where to start and had
a chance of finding stuff without using a pit lamp.
--
Thorsten Wilms
thorwil's design for free software:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/
11:13 a.m.
New subject: [LAU] linuxaudio.org
Thorsten Wilms schrieb:
I am not sure if we should not have better put up at least minimal
content, some suggested content structure, anything really but a
completely empty wiki to encourage people using it before announcing it
to the public.
I don't understand it either.
Good idea. conference.linuxaudio.org should be fine.
It's resources now, thanks for the suggestion. Also, it's a part of the
consortium site now, no longer a separate subdomain.
[...]
I completely agree. Same holds for the lowlatency site.
Burkhard
On Sat, 2008-10-25 at 11:40 +0200, Robin Gareus
wrote:
Yes.
Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote : "We need to start
thinking about the function
of the management board. This aspect has been all but dead. How about we
announce restructuring of the board and go from there? My suggestion is
to retain the core of those of us who are most active and then add key
figures in the community who will be active contributors to our cause."
No surprise there. Further discussion may or may not follow on
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/consortium/ - and last but not least:
Seems that belongs on the consortium list and shouldn't be on LAD and
LAU!?
*
http://wiki.linuxaudio.org
open to public (openID/CAPTCHA)
Everybody is welcome to use this wiki for gnu/Linux and FLOSS audio
related projects or communication. Feel free to ask for additional
permissions or plugins. - send your project application or suggestions
to LAD, start writing a wiki page about it or send a patch ;)
Nice.
We would like to support maintained and moderated
namespaces adopted by
members of the community; balancing http://linuxaudio.org/members in
favor of interest groups. We have neither intentions nor budget to take
on wiki.ubuntu.com or wikipedia. Commercial interest is tolerated.
Professional interest in linux-audio is more or less a prerequisite. The
usual exceptions apply for Music, Art, etc. see http://linuxaudio.org/policy
I'm not sure what you are talking about here and highly suspect others
will be even more puzzled. Balancing?
Regarding namespaces (nice example of coder speak not suitable for a
general audience), I see it as a problem that linuxaudio.org web
presence is so fractured already.
Thanks for saying this, Thorsten. That's exactly how I've been feeling
about linuxaudio.org for some time now. Fragmentation is our biggest
problem really. In theory it should be possible to share responsibility
for the content without fragmentation, but that's not the current situation.
..and we're not going to stop there.
Here's a quick overview of HTTP services, vhosts and tasks. Any comments
and suggestions are appreciated; as is help getting there:
* http://lad.linuxaudio.org - will be consolidated into drupal
(www.linuxaudio.org) and wiki.linuxaudio.org. - Apart from the
http://lad.linuxaudio.org/events/ (lots of pictures and media) there's
only 16 HTML pages. - similarly lowlatency.linuxaudio.org should become
an entry-point to the wiki.
* http://lad.linuxaudio.org/events/ should be merged with
http://lac.linuxaudio.org
Consider conference.linuxaudio.org or conf.linuxaudio.org. Redundant
redundancy department / cryptic abbrev. ;)
* http://portal.linuxaudio.org,
http://linuxaudio.org,
http://lac.linuxaudio.org/
Drupal CMS is edited and maintained by the consortium.
I actually think portal shouldn't exist. Should be just a list of links
reachable from linuxaudio.org . Like it is, but the link name "Portal"
doesn't cut it. Maybe "Ressources"?
* http://lau.linuxaudio.org and
http://quicktoots.linuxaudio.org/
probably remain as is. There are a lot of hidden resources there! -
Maybe some minor updates on the front-page. point to the wiki or portal.
Ah yes, the fragmentation. _Hidden_ resources are great for Indiana
Jones style explorers, I guess? ;)
I would rather drop old material to have a chance of introducing
something structured, where a newcomer would know where to start and had
a chance of finding stuff without using a pit lamp.
11:17 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] linuxaudio.org
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Thorsten Wilms wrote:
Well, we have lots of "members" - Half of which have their own
ALSA-settings or JACK-info page.
Generally open-source software is an extreme balance act between
communism and individual contributions. The linuxaudio website does not
reflect the community aspect. There is a long list of members and
(besides the mailing lists) little common representation.
People learn when writing pages, so we don't want to take away this
aspect by providing a central-authoritative source of information. Still
there's many common goals among the members. So the idea is to provide a
wiki-namespace grouped by task or interest, moderated by dedicated members.
We find the main cause of fragmentation (lad,lau,lac,portal,..) to be
the high setup-cost to contribute to existing websites.
old legacy issue: Conference vs. Consortium came up with LAC around the
same time: the consotrium owns the www. website, lac. is the conference.
I'm all for moving it to conference.linuxaudio.org and we'll keep a 301
redirect from lac. (the domain was used by previous conferences) Well,
it is up to the next conference organizer(s) (or their poster-designer):
http://conference.linuxaudio.org vs
http://[www.]lac2009[.linuxaudio].org etc.
IMHO these should be accessible from a 'top-menu' or banner on
www.linuxaudio.org (maybe other vhosts as well).
hehe, if I had the time I'd host a design contest; make an upload form
and write a proper announce email that will make it on slashdot at x-mas.
Concept wise apps is a subset of the wiki. At the moment it's
implemented the other way around.
The idea here is to also reduce the multitude of vhosts on
linuxaudio.org - At some point both apps and wiki could move to
http://linuxaudio.org/wiki/ and the vhosts would remain entry-points for
backwards compatibility.
Addressing web-design and host-management I'm pretty much stepping
beyond my responsibilities. Nevertheless it has been neglected for too
long and lots of legacy keeps adding to the confusion.
BTW. LAD silently celebrated it's 10's birthday in September
http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/1998/ (note the Finnish dates and wrong
ordering) - and linuxaudio.org will turn 5 on December 12 this year.
Well, we won't delete anything ;) We can mark it as "outdated" (or move
it to legacy.linuxaudio.org) and encourage Mr Jones to tag/link
interesting resource there from the wiki. Content that's worth updating
can be refreshed or imported..
so long,
robin
On Sat, 2008-10-25 at 11:40 +0200, Robin Gareus
wrote:
IMHO restructuring linuxaudio.org (not only the website) affects
linux-audio-users as well as anyone here, but you're right of course.
We'll add an open PR position to linuxaudio.org jobs listing.
(I did not include linux-audio-announce in the email. There will
separate announcements: pending how the wiki performs in beta-test and
Ico keeping up with updating the consortium site.)
Ivica Ico Bukvic wrote : "We need to start
thinking about the function
of the management board. This aspect has been all but dead. How about we
announce restructuring of the board and go from there? My suggestion is
to retain the core of those of us who are most active and then add key
figures in the community who will be active contributors to our cause."
No surprise there. Further discussion may or may not follow on
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/consortium/ - and last but not least:
Seems that belongs on the consortium list and shouldn't be on LAD and
LAU!? *
http://wiki.linuxaudio.org
open to public (openID/CAPTCHA)
Everybody is welcome to use this wiki for gnu/Linux and FLOSS audio
related projects or communication. Feel free to ask for additional
permissions or plugins. - send your project application or suggestions
to LAD, start writing a wiki page about it or send a patch ;)
Nice.
We would like to support maintained and moderated
namespaces adopted by
members of the community; balancing http://linuxaudio.org/members in
favor of interest groups. We have neither intentions nor budget to take
on wiki.ubuntu.com or wikipedia. Commercial interest is tolerated.
Professional interest in linux-audio is more or less a prerequisite. The
usual exceptions apply for Music, Art, etc. see http://linuxaudio.org/policy
I'm not sure what you are talking about here and highly suspect others
will be even more puzzled. Balancing? Regarding namespaces (nice example of coder speak not
suitable for a
general audience), I see it as a problem that linuxaudio.org web
presence is so fractured already.
The idea is to reduce fragmentation, to move most content into a CMS
from where it can be cited, exported, put into context and eventually
consolidated.
As mentioned above, while the wiki is open to the public, there could
also be some /read-only/ wikipages (eg. a dedicated
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namespace ) where well known members or
editors can publish, summarize, copy&paste articles.
besides, LAUs are no general-audience, are we? ;)
..and
we're not going to stop there.
Here's a quick overview of HTTP services, vhosts and tasks. Any comments
and suggestions are appreciated; as is help getting there:
* http://lad.linuxaudio.org - will be consolidated into drupal
(www.linuxaudio.org) and wiki.linuxaudio.org. - Apart from the
http://lad.linuxaudio.org/events/ (lots of pictures and media) there's
only 16 HTML pages. - similarly lowlatency.linuxaudio.org should become
an entry-point to the wiki.
* http://lad.linuxaudio.org/events/ should be merged with
http://lac.linuxaudio.org
Consider conference.linuxaudio.org or conf.linuxaudio.org. Redundant
redundancy department / cryptic abbrev. ;) *
http://portal.linuxaudio.org, http://linuxaudio.org,
http://lac.linuxaudio.org/
Drupal CMS is edited and maintained by the consortium.
I actually think portal shouldn't exist. Should be just a list of links
reachable from linuxaudio.org . Like it is, but the link name "Portal"
doesn't cut it. Maybe "Ressources"? We're
urgently looking for 2-5 Content Maintainers (and Guitarists) so
that some of us can take a holiday break.
I suspect writing a long and partly confusing email while assuming
everyone already knows what this is all about and what you want to
accomplish is not the best way to invite contributors. Besides in the
longer term we're looking for volunteers to summarize or
comment on a LAD/LAU thread once in a while, and editors to write short
articles in the likes of kerneltrap.org.
* http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/ is actually the same as
http://apps.linuxaudio.org/wiki/ - vhosts will be merged, redirect..
One of the URLs will be dropped? Which one? I though one is an open wiki
for content that is not necessarily tied to single applications and the
other a directory of linux audio applications? *
http://lau.linuxaudio.org and http://quicktoots.linuxaudio.org/
probably remain as is. There are a lot of hidden resources there! -
Maybe some minor updates on the front-page. point to the wiki or portal.
Ah yes, the fragmentation. _Hidden_ resources are great for Indiana
Jones style explorers, I guess? ;)
I would rather drop old material to have a chance of introducing
something structured, where a newcomer would know where to start and had
a chance of finding stuff without using a pit lamp. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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=uL+c
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27 Oct
27 Oct
12:39 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] linuxaudio.org
Robin Gareus wrote:
Well, we won't delete anything ;) We can mark it as "outdated" (or move
it to legacy.linuxaudio.org) and encourage Mr Jones to tag/link
interesting resource there from the wiki. Content that's worth updating
can be refreshed or imported..
da, da,da, daaaa....
Are these are the subdomains that you are referring to?
http://lau.linuxaudio.org
http://lowlatency.linuxaudio.org
http://quicktoots.linuxaudio.org
They are all linked to from the portal page and have fairly simple
structures.
lau.
- This page was designed to be very simple and provide a non threatening
or overwhelming way in for non technical uses or n00bs. If someone has
suggestions for how to make it even easier for the target reader then
please let me know. I'll see if I can find some time to add a more
obvious link to linuxaudio.org throughout all the documents. Probably
just add a new header/footer, parse the html before loading the page and
dump it into a div. Can't be bothered reworking all the existing pages.
lowlatency.
- If anyone has a suggestion for making the lowlatency page more user
friendly then please let me know. I'm more than happy to fine tune it.
The last time anyone bothered to make a suggestion was at least two
years ago. I guess that means the existing page either provides all the
necessary information or else no one uses it. Probably the latter
because the information has already been assimilated by several distro
tutorials and wikis.
I'll start a new thread to get a round up on the latest knowledge to be
added to the page.
One thing that might be useful is an rss feed with the latest updates.
Not sure exactly how it should be managed though... It may also distract
attention from the list/s which is where a lot of announcements are
currently made.
quicktoots.
- The basic design and layout of the quicktoots is not going to change
anytime soon. However if someone wants to submit a new tutorial the
space is always open. Of course if someone also wants to make a new skin
then that would be nice too. It's easy to add code for several skins to
be displayed randomly or otherwise.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd.
*
http://lau.linuxaudio.org and http://quicktoots.linuxaudio.org/
probably remain as is. There are a lot of hidden resources there! -
Maybe some minor updates on the front-page. point to the wiki or portal.
Ah yes, the fragmentation. _Hidden_ resources are great for Indiana
Jones style explorers, I guess? ;)
I would rather drop old material to have a chance of introducing
something structured, where a newcomer would know where to start and had
a chance of finding stuff without using a pit lamp.
1:50 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] linuxaudio.org
Patrick Shirkey wrote:
I'll see if I can find some time to add a more
obvious link to linuxaudio.org throughout all the documents. Probably
just add a new header/footer, parse the html before loading the page and
dump it into a div. Can't be bothered reworking all the existing pages.
Hmm. I was looking at adding a header but it appears that there is no
definitive Linuxaudio.org template. The wikis are different from the
portal pages and the various subdomains all have different templates.
So, What exactly needs to be changed?
Do I just need to add image links to linuxsudio.org in the documents
referenced throughout the lau, quicktoots, lowlatency? I would have
thought that the url would be enough for most people.
I'm not sure exactly what is wrong with the existing structure/content
of those sub domains.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd.
1:10 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] linuxaudio.org
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Hash: SHA1
Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Robin Gareus wrote:
Well, we won't delete anything ;) We can mark it as "outdated" (or move
it to legacy.linuxaudio.org) and encourage Mr Jones to tag/link
interesting resource there from the wiki. Content that's worth updating
can be refreshed or imported..
da, da,da, daaaa....
Are these are the subdomains that you are referring to?
http://lau.linuxaudio.org
http://lowlatency.linuxaudio.org
http://quicktoots.linuxaudio.org
Are you Mr. Jones junior or senior? ;)
*
http://lau.linuxaudio.org and http://quicktoots.linuxaudio.org/
probably remain as is. There are a lot of hidden resources there! -
Maybe some minor updates on the front-page. point to the wiki or
portal.
Ah yes, the fragmentation. _Hidden_ resources are great for Indiana
Jones style explorers, I guess? ;)
I would rather drop old material to have a chance of introducing
something structured, where a newcomer would know where to start and had
a chance of finding stuff without using a pit lamp.
They are all linked to from the portal page and have
fairly simple
structures.
I think Thosten was not only referring to TOC article structure but also
to web-2.0 semantic structures, cross-referencing and finding information.
lau.
- This page was designed to be very simple and provide a non threatening
or overwhelming way in for non technical uses or n00bs. If someone has
suggestions for how to make it even easier for the target reader then
please let me know. I'll see if I can find some time to add a more
obvious link to linuxaudio.org throughout all the documents. Probably
just add a new header/footer, parse the html before loading the page and
dump it into a div. Can't be bothered reworking all the existing pages.
IMHO the lau front-page is just as helpful and confusing for newbies as
http://apps.linuxaudio.org/ - Instead of re-working existing pages they
could gradually be migrated into a wiki. (personally I like the
http://ubuntustudio.org/ website - but not ubuntu itself)
lowlatency.
- If anyone has a suggestion for making the lowlatency page more user
friendly then please let me know. I'm more than happy to fine tune it.
The last time anyone bothered to make a suggestion was at least two
years ago. I guess that means the existing page either provides all the
necessary information or else no one uses it. Probably the latter
because the information has already been assimilated by several distro
tutorials and wikis.
It's a very informative easily printable page that makes a nice read;
but I don't think a single page justifies for a virtual-host; besides
you should get it through http://validator.w3.org/ and adding a license
on how to reproduce lowlatency.linuxaudio.org would be nice. is this
public-domain? GFDL? CC?
In the long run the content could be maintained in a wiki (as long as
you continue to take input, you're be welcome to remain the sole
maintainer if you like). Other wiki-editors could supplement it with
distribution-specific information (back-linking to you) or you can
merge-in content. The current static page does not provide for pingbacks
or anything.
FWIW, we're planning to publish-subscribe rt.wiki.kernel.org
wiki.linuxmusicians.com and wiki.linuxaudio.org early 2009 - Federating
social networks is beyond the scope of this discussion; I'll gladly hook
you up if you're interested.
I'll start a new thread to get a round up on the
latest knowledge to be
added to the page.
One thing that might be useful is an rss feed with the latest updates.
Not sure exactly how it should be managed though... It may also distract
attention from the list/s which is where a lot of announcements are
currently made.
Not distracting at all: The email lists shall remain central to
linuxaudio.org.
We think that we can and should do better, supporting the community with
web services and representation - having a common style among the
*.linuxaudio.org vhosts should not limited to web-design but extend to
collaboration techniques. Discussion here will provide content for the web.
It should be easy to copy/paste content over to eg.
http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/lowlatency and 301 redirect
lowlatency.linuxaudio.org there. You'll get a RSS and Atom feed for free.
quicktoots.
- The basic design and layout of the quicktoots is not going to change
anytime soon. However if someone wants to submit a new tutorial the
space is always open. Of course if someone also wants to make a new skin
then that would be nice too. It's easy to add code for several skins to
be displayed randomly or otherwise.
I'd suggest to collaborate with http://flossmanuals.net/ and
http://www.digitalartistshandbook.org/
Thorsten is right in saying that we should not keep out-of-date
information and drop old material. We have more urgent issues on
linuxaudio.org than lau and quicktoots.
Cheers!
robin
PS. We're currently working on the LAC2009 site; due an announcement
later today. I've just updated apache/php/xcache and will be revisiting
apps, wiki and www with Holger and Burkhard. After this iteration we'll
make a call for designers. - please help out if you can.
The CSS theme and "printable-version" of the wiki may get fixed in the
next weeks until a redesign happens. If no one else does it: It'll be a
snowy weekend task for me in December.
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11:40 p.m.
New subject: [LAD] linuxaudio.org
On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 17:09 +0100, Robin Gareus wrote:
Thorsten is right in saying that we should not keep out-of-date
information and drop old material. We have more urgent issues on
linuxaudio.org than lau and quicktoots.
So are you suggesting that the sub domains are dropped completely or at
least not pointing to the existing content?
That's fine by me as I can host them on my own server. I have no problem
moving them back to djcj.org.
The only reason they are hosted at linuxaudio.org in the first place is
because both Ico and Daniel asked me to add host them there but that was
before the rest of the site was built out and when they were one of the
few real attempts at documenting Linux audio for n00bs in general.
Things have changed a lot of the past few years so maybe they have done
their job at lao and should be moved back to their original location on
djcj.org?
I'll give you guys a couple of days to decide otherwise I'll migrate
them at the end of the week.
Cheers.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
28 Oct
28 Oct
1:14 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] linuxaudio.org
On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 09:42 +0700, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
I'll give you guys a couple of days to decide otherwise I'll migrate
them at the end of the week.
While you are deciding what to do you may want to consider that in the
search engine world content is king and page rankings are determined by
the number of keywords found and also referring links to legacy
content.
By removing legacy content on LAO you are effectively making it a lot
harder to maintain a top position in the search engine rankings as you
are increasing the amount of time you have to spend making sure that the
content is up to date and new so that the site is always referenced
first.
If this is not a major issue then you may want to consider removing
anything that is older than a couple of months from the wiki as
maintaining it will surely start to catch up on you once you have a
couple of years of data in the wiki database...
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd
8:07 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] linuxaudio.org
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Hash: SHA1
Patrick Shirkey wrote:
On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 09:42 +0700, Patrick Shirkey
wrote:
> I'll give you guys a couple of days to decide otherwise I'll migrate
> them at the end of the week.
decide what?
I don't even feel I have the authority to make a decision. I do have the
obligation to keep linuxaudio.org up and running. I never touched any
page on lau or any file that you own on that machine (well, I've
disabled the mediawiki FAQ there after notifying you since it had more
than 200MB of SPAM messages).
Would you be kind and clarify a license for your content on
linuxaudio.org? - instead of writing long emails I'd volunteer to copy
the pages over into the wiki. You can have a look if you like it and
then migrate, delete or update them.
While you are deciding what to do you may want to
consider that in the
search engine world content is king and page rankings are determined by
the number of keywords found and also referring links to legacy
content.
By removing legacy content on LAO you are effectively making it a lot
harder to maintain a top position in the search engine rankings as you
are increasing the amount of time you have to spend making sure that the
content is up to date and new so that the site is always referenced
first.
I don't think so. We did a lot of optimization to score higher ranking
on some modern search-engines for apps and www. over the last year. It's
quite unrelated to adding/removing subdomains and hosting legacy
content. Besides none of your old content links to newer content.. and
while it's nice to have, we're not really after high-ranks on search
engines.
If this is not a major issue then you may want to
consider removing
anything that is older than a couple of months from the wiki as
maintaining it will surely start to catch up on you once you have a
couple of years of data in the wiki database...
We started indeed to mark all old pages on the wiki and apps as
"outdated", "unmaintained" or with a "dead_link" tag.
It won't grow on me. It'll be a task for all of us!
There's also no wiki-database - dokuwiki uses text-files. True, the
meta-infos are stored in a what could be named a database; still the
content can be exported, re-used and maintained much more easily.
cheers,
robin
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8:20 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] linuxaudio.org
Robin Gareus wrote:
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Hash: SHA1
Patrick Shirkey wrote:
If they should be kept as seperate sub domains or if I should move the
content back to my own server.
I have no intention of radically changing the content that is there. If
someone else wants to add it into any wiki which several people have
already done in part on various sites already then there is nothing to
stop any one from doing that.
On Tue, 2008-10-28 at 09:42 +0700, Patrick
Shirkey wrote:
> I'll give you guys a couple of days to decide otherwise I'll migrate
> them at the end of the week.
>
decide what?
Would you be kind and clarify a license for your
content on
linuxaudio.org? - instead of writing long emails I'd volunteer to copy
the pages over into the wiki. You can have a look if you like it and
then migrate, delete or update them.
The content is licensed as fdl it always has been. It should be on the
footer on every page.
I will never delete the pages. I think at this point it is clear that
the content as it exists now is not desired on the lao site so I will
migrate them to my own server and save the hassle of continuing the
thread. Feel free to take whatever you want from the pages and add them
to the wiki.
Cheers.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd.
7:49 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] linuxaudio.org
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Patrick Shirkey wrote:
On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 17:09 +0100, Robin Gareus
wrote:
neither. If you read my comments closely my suggestion was to have the
sub-domains (vhosts) become entry points. The content there will be the
same (or an updated version).
My original judgment on lau/quicktoots/lowlatency was: "good as is -
maybe some minor modifications" until we have the time to revisit it.
IMO updating the front-page and lad.linuxaudio.org is much more
important; as is reorganizing the /members and updating the /music page.
Thorsten is right in saying that we should not
keep out-of-date
information and drop old material. We have more urgent issues on
linuxaudio.org than lau and quicktoots.
So are you suggesting that the sub domains are dropped completely or at
least not pointing to the existing content? That's fine by me as I can host them on my own
server. I have no problem
moving them back to djcj.org.
I find it a pity that you ignore suggestions to update it and rather
pull the plug instead.
The only reason they are hosted at linuxaudio.org in
the first place is
because both Ico and Daniel asked me to add host them there but that was
before the rest of the site was built out and when they were one of the
few real attempts at documenting Linux audio for n00bs in general.
The reason why I donate time to apps, wiki etc on linuxaudio.org is that
I've missed those features when I started with linux-audio.
Things have changed a lot of the past few years so
maybe they have done
their job at lao and should be moved back to their original location on
djcj.org?
I won't know about djcj; Have a look at
http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/1998/ - I find this an amazing online
community. There's no need for anyone to crawl back under a rock even
after 10 years!
I'll give you guys a couple of days to decide
otherwise I'll migrate
them at the end of the week.
I'm very busy; maybe you can ask someone to help you?
Would anyone one the lists be interested take over maintaining the
lau.linuxaudio.org domain ?
Cheers.
sorry, I'm not feeling very cheerful.
robin
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8:08 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] linuxaudio.org
Robin Gareus wrote:
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Hash: SHA1
Patrick Shirkey wrote:
I was only commenting on the items that I am in charge of. It seemed to
me that you were suggesting that the lau, quicktoots and lowlatency
vhosts were unnecessary time wasters and contained legacy content that
didn't need their own sub domain and should not exist on the lao
portal.Hence I offered to remove them from the mix and host them on my
own server where they were originally located. Therefore saving the lao
team the hassle of having to worry about them at all.
Now I really don't know what exactly you are proposing. Do you want me
to move all the content from the above domains to a new location in the
wiki and someone will make the subdomains point to the new location?
If that is what you are suggesting then I think it would be easier if I
just move the content back to djcj.org.
Then you can remove the subdomains and not have to worry about them any
longer.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd.
On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 17:09 +0100, Robin Gareus
wrote:
neither. If you read my comments closely my suggestion was to have the
sub-domains (vhosts) become entry points. The content there will be the
same (or an updated version).
My original judgment on lau/quicktoots/lowlatency was: "good as is -
maybe some minor modifications" until we have the time to revisit it.
IMO updating the front-page and lad.linuxaudio.org is much more
important; as is reorganizing the /members and updating the /music page.
Thorsten is right in saying that we should not
keep out-of-date
information and drop old material. We have more urgent issues on
linuxaudio.org than lau and quicktoots.
So are you suggesting that the sub domains are dropped completely or at
least not pointing to the existing content?
9:48 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] linuxaudio.org
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Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Robin Gareus wrote:
I'm sorry if it came across like that. maybe you were mixing up issues:
lowlatency is a single page on a dedicated web-server - a bit overkill,
really.
Some of the content in quicktoots is certainly out-of-date. Old ardour
manuals get a higher search-engine ranking as new ones. Still, "There
are a lot of hidden resources there!" which we must not neglect.
In the long run I think that deleting them is better than keeping them
as is. However we can also see to update or migrate them:
fi. linking some of the quicktoots on a page with tutorials from LACs,
make them available as PDF and HTML etc.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Patrick Shirkey wrote:
I was only commenting on the items that I am in charge of. It seemed to
me that you were suggesting that the lau, quicktoots and lowlatency
vhosts were unnecessary time wasters and contained legacy content that
didn't need their own sub domain and should not exist on the lao
portal. On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 17:09 +0100, Robin Gareus
wrote:
neither. If you read my comments closely my suggestion was to have the
sub-domains (vhosts) become entry points. The content there will be the
same (or an updated version).
My original judgment on lau/quicktoots/lowlatency was: "good as is -
maybe some minor modifications" until we have the time to revisit it.
IMO updating the front-page and lad.linuxaudio.org is much more
important; as is reorganizing the /members and updating the /music page.
Thorsten is right in saying that we should not
keep out-of-date
information and drop old material. We have more urgent issues on
linuxaudio.org than lau and quicktoots.
So are you suggesting that the sub domains are dropped completely or at
least not pointing to the existing content?
Hence I offered to remove them from the mix and host
them on my
own server where they were originally located. Therefore saving the lao
team the hassle of having to worry about them at all.
Now I really don't know what exactly you are proposing. Do you want me
to move all the content from the above domains to a new location in the
wiki and someone will make the subdomains point to the new location?
I can add the redirects but I won't do anything without consent.
If you don't mind just leave it as is. I'll need a few days to come up
with a proposal for lau/quicktoots but I wouldn't mind to introduce you
to the wiki, drupal or hear suggestions what linuxaudio.org could do
with the lau domain in your opinion.
IMO quicktoots is a very 90's webdesign; but I won't be able to do any
better anytime soon. My idea is to revisit the issue after we've decided
on a general interaction-design and style for linuxaudio.org
Meanwhile you could fix the dead-links on lau.linuxaudio.org to
linuxdoc.org in the "Before you start" section. and add a
http://htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/doctype.html to lau and quicktoots.
let's follow the road of many small changes.
If that is what you are suggesting then I think it
would be easier if I
just move the content back to djcj.org.
Then you can remove the subdomains and not have to worry about them any
longer.
unless we move LAU over to djcj we'll have to worry about
lau.linuxaudio.org either way.
2c,
robin
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30 Oct
30 Oct
2:10 a.m.
New subject: [LAD] linuxaudio.org
Robin Gareus wrote:
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Hash: SHA1
Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Definitely. i had no idea the subdomain got it's own server. That should
be changed if the subdomain is not ramped up to do more. I can't see
what we could do with it that is not already covered by the rtwiki site
though.
I don't think it matters where the page is hosted but I don't really
have the inclination to submit it for approval at the official howto
site. If someone wanted to take that on it would probably be accepted
with some changes. I prefer not to have to deal with the bureaucracy.
Robin Gareus wrote:
I'm sorry if it came across like that. maybe you were mixing up issues:
lowlatency is a single page on a dedicated web-server - a bit overkill,
really.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Patrick Shirkey wrote:
I was only commenting on the items that I am in charge of. It seemed to
me that you were suggesting that the lau, quicktoots and lowlatency
vhosts were unnecessary time wasters and contained legacy content that
didn't need their own sub domain and should not exist on the lao
portal.
On Mon, 2008-10-27 at 17:09 +0100, Robin Gareus
wrote:
> Thorsten is right in saying that we should not keep out-of-date
> information and drop old material. We have more urgent issues on
> linuxaudio.org than lau and quicktoots.
>
>
>
So are you suggesting that the sub domains are dropped completely or at
least not pointing to the existing content?
neither. If you read my comments closely my suggestion was to have the
sub-domains (vhosts) become entry points. The content there will be the
same (or an updated version).
My original judgment on lau/quicktoots/lowlatency was: "good as is -
maybe some minor modifications" until we have the time to revisit it.
IMO updating the front-page and lad.linuxaudio.org is much more
important; as is reorganizing the /members and updating the /music page.
Some of the content in quicktoots is certainly
out-of-date. Old ardour
manuals get a higher search-engine ranking as new ones. Still, "There
are a lot of hidden resources there!" which we must not neglect.
Well the point of leaving that older stuff up is that without it there
would be about 5 tutorials. That older stuff is fairly generic though so
it will be useful as a starter for some people. I have a long term goal
for the quicktoots to have 100 tutorials sometime int he next 20 years.
However it really depends on user contributions.
In the long run I think that deleting them is better
than keeping them
as is.
I don't like the idea of deleting hard work that has been contributed
by
indviduals on their own time. I prefer to keep them available for
historical purposes. However there is some room for making it obvious if
the article is out of date. I think they all have a date stamp displayed
but I can whip something up to that affect for the wrapper code once I
have a generic template to work with. Maybe I should just add the
template and then ask for design submissions once it is in place.
Something is better than nothing.
However we can also see to update or migrate them:
fi. linking some of the quicktoots on a page with tutorials from LACs,
make them available as PDF and HTML etc.
I am open to suggestions for lau also. I never intended to reign over
the official home page so if there are improvements to make then I'm all
ears. However the content that is their now will remain in some form on
the web even if I host it myself.
Hence I offered to remove them from the mix and
host them on my
own server where they were originally located. Therefore saving the lao
team the hassle of having to worry about them at all.
Now I really don't know what exactly you are proposing. Do you want me
to move all the content from the above domains to a new location in the
wiki and someone will make the subdomains point to the new location?
I can add the redirects but I won't do anything without consent.
If you don't mind just leave it as is. I'll need a few days to come up
with a proposal for lau/quicktoots but I wouldn't mind to introduce you
to the wiki, drupal or hear suggestions what linuxaudio.org could do
with the lau domain in your opinion.
IMO quicktoots is a very 90's webdesign; but I
won't be able to do any
better anytime soon. My idea is to revisit the issue after we've decided
on a general interaction-design and style for linuxaudio.org
Well css wasn't really around until at least 2000 so that's a touch
harsh. I agree that the design is not as beautiful as it could be. I
haven't done any real work on it for a couple of years. I could add
rounded corners if that makes it more attractive... Part of the theme
was to make it a little hard so that people didn't get the wrong
impression that Linux audio was cute and friendly.
unless we move LAU over to djcj we'll have to
worry about
lau.linuxaudio.org either way.
Ok, So it's just the low latency howto that is taking up space from a
technical pov and not literally as a waste of time having it online.
Personally I don't mind the lao portal having different themes for the
different sub domains. I think it reflects that there are many different
personalities involved in the community. I think giving lau the same
theme as the other domains is kind of bland. However we should have a
more consistent thread woven into the templates to reflect that there
are some common goals we all share in a general inclusive kind of way.
Maybe it's time to have another competition to design a template or at
least ask for some ideas from the community for viual representation of
themes?
I'll start a new thread on lau to this affect.
--
Patrick Shirkey
Boost Hardware Ltd.
25 Oct
25 Oct
11:25 a.m.
Robin Gareus schrieb:
[...]
* http://apps.linuxaudio.org/wiki/request
bookmarklet in beta test. Easy way to submit new apps.
* http://lau.linuxaudio.org and http://quicktoots.linuxaudio.org/
probably remain as is. There are a lot of hidden resources there! -
Maybe some minor updates on the front-page. point to the wiki or portal.
* http://ladspavst.linuxaudio.org/ - great as it is.
In theory this could be integrated into a broader application index. At
least it's the same kind of application - an index. Same holds, again,
in theory, for something like lam.fugal.net.
* http://ccmixter.linuxaudio.org - for a short time.around
http://www.linuxaudio.org/mailarchive/lau/2007/11/15 we set up a
bare-bone ccmixter.org intended for Music-Made-With-Linux. Should you
desire to style and maintain a ccmixter community: here's your chance.
* http://radio.linuxaudio.org/
Anyone interested? shall we stream random songs from lam.fugal.net ?!
repeat talks from the LAC? or better no-stream than some weird random mix?
I'd rather concentrate on improving the things we have than start new
ones. As it is, polishing the apps index and integrating this index and
the wiki and the consortium into one common site is quite a challenge
for us.
* for http://forum.linuxaudio.org/ we started
collaboration with
http://linuxmusicians.com/
It's just a redirect, right? What do we need it for? Nobody will ever
find this subdomain. Better to put a link to linuxmusicians.com somewhere.
If you don't like the current style/template: We're challenging
web-designers to come up with a better one.
The consortium-site is a http://drupal.org ; apps & wiki a
http://dokuwiki.org CMS. - get in contact with us on the LAD mailing list.
I started work on this and sent out a mail with some design proposals.
Never got an answer. Perhaps the mail got lost, I'll resend it.
Burkhard
5896
days inactive
5901
days old
consortium@lists.linuxaudio.org
15 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Burkhard Ritter -
Patrick Shirkey -
Robin Gareus -
Thorsten Wilms