2 Feb
2004
2 Feb
'04
2:49 a.m.
Yes, this is nice, and I like, that every app has a
screenshot or
icon. This would be nice for a linuxaudiobase.org as well. Paul's
design from 2002 looks dated now, I guess it was just meant as a
prototype anyway.
RDF-ing the site would be a natural thing to do, IMO.
Data storage
might still be done inside a db server, but at least an RDF for
syndication should be provided. Then the content could get
cross-promoted on djcj.org, linuxadudio.org and similar sites.
The question is - why having dozens of sites with linuxaudio unrelated names
such as djcj.org or linuxaudiobase.org if you can have all under linuxaudio.org?
Linux Audio developers
Linux Audio users
Linux Audio advocates
Linux Audio projects
Linux Audio applications
Linux Audio documentation
Linux Audio tutorials
Linux Audio mailing lists
Linux Audio forums
Linux Audio news
Linux Audio organisation
Linux Audio you name it
Linux Audio *
Linux Audio.
You can't have a better promotion than having a domain name with exactly that name -
Linux Audio.
Marek
2 Feb
2 Feb
12:47 p.m.
On Monday 02 Feb 2004 2:02 am, Marek Peteraj wrote:
Linux Audio.
You can't have a better promotion than having a domain name with
exactly that name - Linux Audio.
Well, you see, I'm not so convinced that it is such an obvious name as
you think.
I think the apparent obviousness of it is a projection of the fact
that as developers or engineers we mostly seem to think of what we do
as "audio". I'm not so sure that "audio" is going to be the
obvious
defining word to any user who is not an audio engineer by trade.
For example, look at the website for the Sounds Expo trade show:
http://www.sounds-expo.co.uk/index2.php
To us this is obviously an audio industry trade show, but the word
"audio" does not feature in the description on that site at all.
Similarly I have copies of the latest Sound on Sound and Future Music
magazines in front of me, and the word "audio" is nowhere on the
cover of either. All of these exclusively use words like "sound",
"recording", "music". "Audio" describes a particular domain
that has
to do with frequencies and samples: it's something that engineers use
to make music products, not something that musicians use. (The
crossover between studio engineers and home studio users does muddy
this one, of course.)
Still, to me this seems like a pretty obvious distinction -- I've been
developing Linux music software for nearly a decade now, but I'm only
tangentially a Linux audio developer. And I see the "linuxaudio.org"
consortium as having a name that suggests it's targeted at the audio
industry, or at least to developers and sound engineers, not so much
the average end user. I'm not persuaded that the musician with an
interest in music software for Linux would ever think of going to
linuxaudio.org at all.
(Caveat: it's possible that the word "audio" gets more general use in
the US?)
Chris
8:27 p.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 10:57, Chris Cannam wrote:
On Monday 02 Feb 2004 2:02 am, Marek Peteraj wrote:
Ok, let's look at your flyer:
you're using the terms "audio software" "audio editor" "Linux
audio
applications" "Linux audio software"
Let's look at your description of JACK - an audio service which routes
audio.
Now suppose i change 'audio' to 'sound', that's 'sound
service' - does
it mean it's similar to wizoo sounds?
Or even better, let's call it music service - it's going to let jack
look like a music service such as iTunes or Napster.
let's take a look at http://www.sounds-expo.co.uk/index2.php as you
suggested.
"Sounds Expo is the UK event for *musicians*, producers and *sound*
engineers."
Now let's take a look at the exhibitors:
Audio Agency
Audio Media
Audio Technica
AudioState
Focusrite Audio Engineering
TL Audio
...
...
GNU Linux Audio Centre
Guys, if you think that the term 'Linux audio' isn't so important, or
that linux sound or linux music would better suit the needs of users,
why don't you just leave www.linuxaudio.org for LinuxAudio itself.
I'd be happy to buy it from Daniel and redirect it to the LAD page.
Marek
Linux Audio.
You can't have a better promotion than having a domain name with
exactly that name - Linux Audio.
Well, you see, I'm not so convinced that it is such an obvious name as
you think.
I think the apparent obviousness of it is a projection of the fact
that as developers or engineers we mostly seem to think of what we do
as "audio". I'm not so sure that "audio" is going to be the
obvious
defining word to any user who is not an audio engineer by trade.
For example, look at the website for the Sounds Expo trade show:
http://www.sounds-expo.co.uk/index2.php
To us this is obviously an audio industry trade show, but the word
"audio" does not feature in the description on that site at all.
Similarly I have copies of the latest Sound on Sound and Future Music
magazines in front of me, and the word "audio" is nowhere on the
cover of either. All of these exclusively use words like "sound",
"recording", "music". "Audio" describes a particular
domain that has
to do with frequencies and samples: it's something that engineers use
to make music products, not something that musicians use. (The
crossover between studio engineers and home studio users does muddy
this one, of course.)
Still, to me this seems like a pretty obvious distinction -- I've been
developing Linux music software for nearly a decade now, but I'm only
tangentially a Linux audio developer. And I see the "linuxaudio.org"
consortium as having a name that suggests it's targeted at the audio
industry, or at least to developers and sound engineers, not so much
the average end user. I'm not persuaded that the musician with an
interest in music software for Linux would ever think of going to
linuxaudio.org at all.
8:40 p.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Monday 02 Feb 2004 7:40 pm, Marek Peteraj wrote:
Ok, let's look at your flyer:
Yes, I did that after I sent that email and was interested to see just
how far I'd fallen into the same trap myself, of using "audio" when I
simply couldn't be bothered to come up with the correct word. The
fact is that while Sweep is an audio editor and JACK is (as you point
out) an audio service, I am actually writing about Linux sound
production applications and music composition or recording software.
Once upon a time I would never have described Rosegarden as audio
software, and the fact that I effectively did so on that flyer just
shows that I've been subscribed to LAD too long.
Guys, if you think that the term 'Linux audio'
isn't so important,
or that linux sound or linux music would better suit the needs of
users, why don't you just leave www.linuxaudio.org for LinuxAudio
itself.
Huh? What is "LinuxAudio itself"? I've never encountered anything
called that.
My point is just that linuxaudio.org fits the bill of a name for a
consortium directed at the audio industry. But it's a pretty crap
name for an end-user portal about music software. I happen to think
linuxmusician.com has a much better name for that, although that's
not very relevant to my point here.
If you were suggesting an end-user portal strictly about pro-audio
software for sound engineering, you might have a point. Are you?
Chris
9:18 p.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 18:51, Chris Cannam wrote:
On Monday 02 Feb 2004 7:40 pm, Marek Peteraj wrote:
I'm not suggesting an end-user portal at all. And it shouldn't be about
'pro-audio'. It should be about audio in general. See how ALSA has put
pro and consumer audio cards into one bag. That's because the
limitations of MME vs. ASIO, WDM or GSI had disappeared.
To me it's not about pro-audio and consumer-audio cards anymore. It's
about higher quality cards and lower-quality cards.
The same goes for software. There's no such thing as $1000 for pro audio
software when it comes to Linux Audio software.
What i'm suggesting is that we should build upon those values we already
have. LAD is definitely one of them. There's a set of mailing lists
where people virtually meet each other and discuss various things.
Those are all Linux Audio mailing lists.
LAD has been here on the internet for 7 years which means *a lot*.
It's a traditional place. It's a Linux Audio place just like LAU or LAA.
You're trying to promote JACK but JACK was born on LAD. LADSPA was born
on LAD aswell.
www.linuxaudio.org should be a website
where developers can find:
* a place for discussion - LAD
* news - projects, events, other developer community related stuff
that's LAA redirected to front page.
* developer documentation
* their prefered project
and where users can find:
* a place for discussion - LAU
* news - new applications and new versions of applications, community
news
* user documentation
* their prefered application
It's Linux Audio that needs promotion.
Marek
Ok, let's look at your flyer:
Yes, I did that after I sent that email and was interested to see just
how far I'd fallen into the same trap myself, of using "audio" when I
simply couldn't be bothered to come up with the correct word. The
fact is that while Sweep is an audio editor and JACK is (as you point
out) an audio service, I am actually writing about Linux sound
production applications and music composition or recording software.
Once upon a time I would never have described Rosegarden as audio
software, and the fact that I effectively did so on that flyer just
shows that I've been subscribed to LAD too long.
Guys, if you think that the term 'Linux
audio' isn't so important,
or that linux sound or linux music would better suit the needs of
users, why don't you just leave www.linuxaudio.org for LinuxAudio
itself.
Huh? What is "LinuxAudio itself"? I've never encountered anything
called that.
My point is just that linuxaudio.org fits the bill of a name for a
consortium directed at the audio industry. But it's a pretty crap
name for an end-user portal about music software. I happen to think
linuxmusician.com has a much better name for that, although that's
not very relevant to my point here.
If you were suggesting an end-user portal strictly about pro-audio
software for sound engineering, you might have a point. Are you?
9:46 p.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Monday 02 Feb 2004 8:32 pm, Marek Peteraj wrote:
I'm not suggesting an end-user portal at all. And
it shouldn't be
about 'pro-audio'. It should be about audio in general.
So not about music and sound in general?
All I'm saying is (as has been said before several times) "Linux
Audio" is not such an obvious name for a mixed bag of music stuff as
you think it is. Indeed, a lot of people interested in the sort of
thing you appear to be talking about wanting to promote would be
actively put off by the fact that the name suggests something
exclusively about audio -- just as I didn't subscribe to LAD until a
couple of years ago because I wasn't working on audio software,
despite working actively on music and MIDI applications. I am
equally reticent about recommending that friends with an interest in
music composition or recording should check out LAU.
Linuxaudio.org as the current consortium does not have a problem with
this, because it's targeting the same mixed bag of stuff specifically
at the audio industry, not at an equally mixed bag of end users. I
think it's a good name, not least because of the suggestion of
serious engineering -- the same reason as there are so many sound
hardware companies called this-and-that-audio as you pointed out.
Anyway, this is not particularly germane. Most of the people here are
indeed interested in audio -- as am I, just not to the exclusion of
everything else. And audio is a useful generic word when you want to
distinguish yourself from e.g. music swapping apps (although less
useful when you want to distinguish yourself from e.g. game sound
engines). I just don't believe that the word has the same ringing
rightness to the rest of the world that it has to you.
Chris
9:51 p.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
Linuxaudio.org as the current consortium does not have a problem with
this, because it's targeting the same mixed bag of stuff specifically
at the audio industry, not at an equally mixed bag of end users.
But the site says it's targeting the music, recording and broadcast
industry...
Marek
9:58 p.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Monday 02 Feb 2004 9:04 pm, Marek Peteraj wrote:
Ah well, I was just talking about how I interpreted it. I might be
wrong. Perhaps I'm just drawing from the more industrial sound of
the word "audio" (as opposed to music or sound).
Chris
Linuxaudio.org
as the current consortium does not have a problem
with this, because it's targeting the same mixed bag of stuff
specifically at the audio industry, not at an equally mixed bag
of end users.
But the site says it's targeting the music, recording and broadcast
industry... 
9:59 p.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
Marek Peteraj <marpet(a)naex.sk> writes:
But the site says it's targeting the music,
recording and broadcast
industry...
Why can't you just stop a bit and suspend your criticisms until
something gets actually done ?
The right to criticize is sacred, but I think everybody should use it
with a grain of salt.
bye,
andrea
10:11 p.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:08, Andrea Glorioso wrote:
Marek Peteraj <marpet(a)naex.sk> writes:
Because i'd like to see it done right? And help out?
But the site says it's targeting the music,
recording and broadcast
industry...
Why can't you just stop a bit and suspend your criticisms until
something gets actually done ?
The right to criticize is sacred, but I think everybody should use it
with a grain of salt.
Just think about what i'm saying and you'll start seeing that it's not
at all trolling.
Marek
3 Feb
3 Feb
1:03 a.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
Marek Peteraj <marpet(a)naex.sk> writes:
That's a matter of opinion, and just as you have criticized the way in
which the initial consortium discussions have been done (i.e. on a
closed mailing list, although I already explained the reasons why the
list was closed and I generally don't agree that *all* discussions
must or should be kept on open mailing lists) I think you can accept
the fact that the way in which *you* have presented your ideas and or
objections can be interpreted as trolling.
I mean, if one persons thinks you are trolling, s/he could be wrong.
If two persons think that, possibilities they are wrong gets lower.
If more than two persons maintain that your way of saying things
amounts to trolling, I would stop, take ad deep breath, and consider
that maybe *I* might be wrong.
Anyway..
I think I understood one of the main problematic points is the usage
of the linuxaudio.org domain. As I already said, I think we can reach
a compromise here - have www.linuxaudio.org be a generic portal (I
would anyway add a "this domain was brought to you thanks to the Linux
Audio Consortium" banner - I think that's fair) and use subdomains of
linuxadio.org for specific tasks, as have already been outlined in
previous threads.
As far as your desire to help out goes, that's welcome. The main
point is whether you want to help the Consortium (as a web designer,
document writer, legal advisor, whatever) or some of the sub projects
which we want to create under the linuxaudio.org umbrella (I mean the
domain, not the Linux Audio Consortium).
If you do not want to cooperate with the Consortium, that's perfectly
fine - but then I would suggest that you don't pester Consortium's
members with endless e-mails on what they are doing wrong (because
that *is* trolling). One e-mail will suffice - if we don't follow
your advice, it simply means we don't agree with you or we feel that
your concerns are not worth enough - I think that's a fine position,
at least as much as you considering the current Consortium's plans
wrong is.
bye,
andrea
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:08, Andrea Glorioso wrote:
Accusing people of "being about to destroy the importance of linux
audio" (cit.) is not a good way of helping out - I think we can agree
on this.
Marek Peteraj <marpet(a)naex.sk> writes:
Because i'd like to see it done right? And help out? But the site says it's targeting the music,
recording and broadcast
industry...
Why can't you just stop a bit and suspend your criticisms until
something gets actually done ? The right to
criticize is sacred, but I think everybody should use it
with a grain of salt.
Just think about what i'm saying and you'll start seeing that it's not
at all trolling.
1:14 a.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 23:12, Andrea Glorioso wrote:
That's a matter of opinion, and just as you have criticized the way in
which the initial consortium discussions have been done (i.e. on a
closed mailing list, although I already explained the reasons why the
list was closed and I generally don't agree that *all* discussions
must or should be kept on open mailing lists) I think you can accept
the fact that the way in which *you* have presented your ideas and or
objections can be interpreted as trolling.
No. Read my very first post which was originally private, teh one meant
for Daniel.
Marek Peteraj <marpet(a)naex.sk> writes:
No.
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:08, Andrea Glorioso
wrote:
Accusing people of "being about to destroy the importance of linux
audio" (cit.) is not a good way of helping out - I think we can agree
on this. Marek Peteraj <marpet(a)naex.sk> writes:
Because i'd like to see it done right? And help out? But the site says it's targeting the music,
recording and broadcast
industry...
Why can't you just stop a bit and suspend your criticisms until
something gets actually done ? The right
to criticize is sacred, but I think everybody should use it
with a grain of salt.
Just think about what i'm saying and you'll start seeing that it's not
at all trolling.
I mean, if one persons thinks you are trolling, s/he could be wrong.
If two persons think that, possibilities they are wrong gets lower.
If more than two persons maintain that your way of saying things
amounts to trolling, I would stop, take ad deep breath, and consider
that maybe *I* might be wrong.
I might, i might not...
Anyway..
I think I understood one of the main problematic points is the usage
of the linuxaudio.org domain. As I already said, I think we can reach
a compromise here - have www.linuxaudio.org be a generic portal (I
would anyway add a "this domain was brought to you thanks to the Linux
Audio Consortium" banner - I think that's fair) and use subdomains of
linuxadio.org for specific tasks, as have already been outlined in
previous threads.
As far as your desire to help out goes, that's welcome. The main
point is whether you want to help the Consortium (as a web designer,
document writer, legal advisor, whatever)
or some of the sub projects
which we want to create under the linuxaudio.org umbrella (I mean the
domain, not the Linux Audio Consortium).
If you do not want to cooperate with the Consortium, that's perfectly
fine - but then I would suggest that you don't pester Consortium's
members with endless e-mails on what they are doing wrong (because
that *is* trolling). One e-mail will suffice - if we don't follow
your advice, it simply means we don't agree with you or we feel that
your concerns are not worth enough - I think that's a fine position,
at least as much as you considering the current Consortium's plans
wrong is.
You simply haven't thoroughly read my messages.
Let's forget about it. Good luck with your consortium.
2 Feb
2 Feb
9:57 p.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
Marek Peteraj <marpet(a)naex.sk> writes:
www.linuxaudio.org should be a website
where developers can find:
* a place for discussion - LAD
* news - projects, events, other developer community related stuff
that's LAA redirected to front page.
* developer documentation
* their prefered project
and where users can find:
* a place for discussion - LAU
* news - new applications and new versions of applications, community
news
* user documentation
* their prefered application
I fail to see how my subdomain proposal fails to meet your requests.
The only point I think we could disagree on is on what should appear
on the main page (i.e. www.linuxaudio.org).
bye,
andrea
10:09 p.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:06, Andrea Glorioso wrote:
Marek Peteraj <marpet(a)naex.sk> writes:
The main page should contain fresh developer and user oriented news, and
it should have a nice set of links with easy navigation so that it's
easy for everybody to get where he wants. It should be a starting point.
Regarding organisations - we should first exactly define what efforts
are needed to promote linux audio. The organisation should then support
those efforts, make them possible, in a *legal* sense, that's financing,
providing services, providing other support, accepting grants and
donations, negotiating etc. For that, it needs to be an organisation
which is governed by law. There are lots of legal issues involved. Its
also important to keep the administration of such org to a minimum.
Not an easy task.
Marek
www.linuxaudio.org should be a website
where developers can find:
* a place for discussion - LAD
* news - projects, events, other developer community related stuff
that's LAA redirected to front page.
* developer documentation
* their prefered project
and where users can find:
* a place for discussion - LAU
* news - new applications and new versions of applications, community
news
* user documentation
* their prefered application
I fail to see how my subdomain proposal fails to meet your requests.
The only point I think we could disagree on is on what should appear
on the main page (i.e. www.linuxaudio.org). 
8:45 p.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
Marek Peteraj wrote:
Guys, if you think that the term 'Linux audio'
isn't so important, or
that linux sound or linux music would better suit the needs of users,
why don't you just leave www.linuxaudio.org for LinuxAudio itself.
I'd be happy to buy it from Daniel and redirect it to the LAD page.
Marek
Marek,
a word of advice.
persistently going on and on about this matter like a stuck record is
unlikely to persuade, in fact it is more likely to antagonise the people
you are writing to and turn them further against you.
why not accept that someone else managed to get a domain name that you
dearly wanted, but got there before you in fair competition. this
happens every day in the rest of the world, and the best thing you can
do now is to accept it and get over it. repeatedly hammering away isnt
going to do you any favours.
doctor prescribes one bunch of sour grapes at mealtimes.
m~
--
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety.
--Benjamin Franklin
|\ _,,,---,,_
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ HTTP 503: Too Busy
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL
.::. www.iriXx.org .::. www.copyleftmedia.org.uk .::.
9:24 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
marek, i must say you are getting on my nerves. people are trying to
get something done here.
if this is your idea of linux audio advocacy, i think it will be
clear at least to the others on this forum why i have so far refused
to set up a linux-audio-advocacy list (as suggested by bob ham a
while ago and more recently by marek in private mail) - exactly
because it tends to attract folks with little to say and too much
time on their hands.
please just refrain from posting if you don't have anything new to
write. stubborn repetition won't make anybody agree or give in. all
you achieve is a top rank in people's killfiles, and what's worse,
you are making such a fool of yourself that chances are nobody will
listen anymore even if you do eventually have something really new
and important to say.
nobody except you has problems with the domain name, and most people
feel it is in good hands and will be put to good use. andrea has
reacted to your concerns by suggesting sub-domains, and it looks
like something really good and useful is coming from that. so stop
bickering now, and how about writing some useful code or
documentation for a change?
jörn
(and yes, this letter may have an offending undertone. subtlety has
totally failed to work so far. i'm offended too by your postings,
too, and i'm really considering to filter your address.)
--
"I never use EQ, never, never, never. I previously used to use mic
positioning but I've even given up on that too."
- Jezar on http://www.audiomelody.com
Jörn Nettingsmeier
Kurfürstenstr 49, 45138 Essen, Germany
http://spunk.dnsalias.org (my server)
http://www.linuxaudiodev.org (Linux Audio Developers)
9:28 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:32, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
marek, i must say you are getting on my nerves.
You too Joern, how about replying to my emails next time?
people are trying to
get something done here.
k
if this is your idea of linux audio advocacy, i think it will be
clear at least to the others on this forum why i have so far refused
to set up a linux-audio-advocacy list (as suggested by bob ham a
while ago and more recently by marek in private mail) - exactly
because it tends to attract folks with little to say and too much
time on their hands.
please just refrain from posting if you don't have anything new to
write. stubborn repetition won't make anybody agree or give in. all
you achieve is a top rank in people's killfiles, and what's worse,
you are making such a fool of yourself that chances are nobody will
listen anymore even if you do eventually have something really new
and important to say.
You know what? I don't give a damn, cause it's not going to be my
problem later.
9:33 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:32, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
people are trying to
get something done here.
Oh one more thing, Joern. In case you didn't *get* it. I'd like to help
out very much. I have a degree in law. I have designed a site of one
linux audio project and the site of one of the "consortium" members.
So...
9:42 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
Marek Peteraj wrote:
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:32, Joern Nettingsmeier
wrote:
so start working with us, constructively, instead of working against us.
either that or pick up that big chip on your shoulder, and take a nice
walk in the forest.
m~
--
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety.
--Benjamin Franklin
|\ _,,,---,,_
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ HTTP 503: Too Busy
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL
.::. www.iriXx.org .::. www.copyleftmedia.org.uk .::.
people are trying to
get something done here.
Oh one more thing, Joern. In case you didn't *get* it. I'd like to help
out very much. I have a degree in law. I have designed a site of one
linux audio project and the site of one of the "consortium" members.
So...
9:46 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:51, iriXx wrote:
Marek Peteraj wrote:
So what's constructively?
Marek
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:32, Joern Nettingsmeier
wrote:
so start working with us, constructively, instead of working against us. people are trying to
get something done here.
Oh one more thing, Joern. In case you didn't *get* it. I'd like to help
out very much. I have a degree in law. I have designed a site of one
linux audio project and the site of one of the "consortium" members.
So...
9:52 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
Marek Peteraj wrote:
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:51, iriXx wrote:
not being a troll.
not boring people with incessant sour grapes.
listening, not hammering us over the head.
sit and listen to what we're doing for a while - without speaking,
without judging, just listen.
then start to think.
m~
--
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety.
--Benjamin Franklin
|\ _,,,---,,_
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ HTTP 503: Too Busy
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL
.::. www.iriXx.org .::. www.copyleftmedia.org.uk .::.
Marek Peteraj wrote:
So what's constructively?
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:32, Joern Nettingsmeier
wrote:
so start working with us, constructively, instead of working against us.
people are trying to
get something done here.
Oh one more thing, Joern. In case you didn't *get* it. I'd like to help
out very much. I have a degree in law. I have designed a site of one
linux audio project and the site of one of the "consortium" members.
So...
9:54 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:01, iriXx wrote:
Marek Peteraj wrote:
I'm sorry miriam. You think that critisism in general = trolling.
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:51, iriXx wrote:
not being a troll.
not boring people with incessant sour grapes.
listening, not hammering us over the head.
sit and listen to what we're doing for a while - without speaking,
without judging, just listen.
then start to think. Marek Peteraj wrote:
So what's constructively?
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:32, Joern Nettingsmeier
wrote:
>people are trying to
>get something done here.
>
>
>
>
Oh one more thing, Joern. In case you didn't *get* it. I'd like to help
out very much. I have a degree in law. I have designed a site of one
linux audio project and the site of one of the "consortium" members.
So...
so start working with us, constructively, instead of working against us.
10:09 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
btw Marek, all your emails seem to be datestamped two hours into the
future, which rather messes up threading. I think either your clock
or your timezone is iffy. Is that something you can fix or a problem
somewhere else?
(e.g. the one this is in reply to was dated 22:07 +0100 but arrived
here at 19:07 +0000.)
Chris
10:14 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:19, Chris Cannam wrote:
btw Marek, all your emails seem to be datestamped two
hours into the
future, which rather messes up threading. I think either your clock
or your timezone is iffy. Is that something you can fix or a problem
somewhere else?
Oh that's my fault. I tried to fix it a while back but it didn't work
out. Sorry about that.
Marek
10:19 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Monday 02 Feb 2004 9:27 pm, Marek Peteraj wrote:
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:19, Chris Cannam wrote:
Is that one of those stupid Linux distros that asks you whether your
system clock is set to local time or GMT without showing you what the
current time on the system clock is, so that you have no way to know
the right answer? And then it resets the Unix clock to the wrong
thing every time you boot? (I think SuSE does that, or used to.)
Sorry, that's even more OT.
Chris
btw Marek, all your emails seem to be datestamped
two hours into
the future, which rather messes up threading. I think either
your clock or your timezone is iffy. Is that something you can
fix or a problem somewhere else?
Oh that's my fault. I tried to fix it a while back but it didn't
work out.
10:29 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:30, Chris Cannam wrote:
On Monday 02 Feb 2004 9:27 pm, Marek Peteraj wrote:
Heh it's gentoo, so i guess it's probably my fault then. :)
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:19, Chris Cannam wrote:
Is that one of those stupid Linux distros that asks you whether your
system clock is set to local time or GMT without showing you what the
current time on the system clock is, so that you have no way to know
the right answer? btw Marek, all your emails seem to be datestamped
two hours into
the future, which rather messes up threading. I think either
your clock or your timezone is iffy. Is that something you can
fix or a problem somewhere else?
Oh that's my fault. I tried to fix it a while back but it didn't
work out. And then it resets the Unix clock to the wrong
thing every time you boot? (I think SuSE does that, or used to.)
IIRC i tried all possible options but it still ended up with +2.
Marek
10:33 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
Chris Cannam wrote:
On Monday 02 Feb 2004 9:27 pm, Marek Peteraj wrote:
oh dont be sorry, it makes a nice change from hearing a certain someone
whinge about a domain name he missed out on getting.
m~
--
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety.
--Benjamin Franklin
|\ _,,,---,,_
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ HTTP 503: Too Busy
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL
.::. www.iriXx.org .::. www.copyleftmedia.org.uk .::.
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:19, Chris Cannam wrote:
Is that one of those stupid Linux distros that asks you whether your
system clock is set to local time or GMT without showing you what the
current time on the system clock is, so that you have no way to know
the right answer? And then it resets the Unix clock to the wrong
thing every time you boot? (I think SuSE does that, or used to.)
Sorry, that's even more OT.
Chris
btw Marek, all your emails seem to be datestamped
two hours into
the future, which rather messes up threading. I think either
your clock or your timezone is iffy. Is that something you can
fix or a problem somewhere else?
Oh that's my fault. I tried to fix it a while back but it didn't
work out.
10:30 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
Marek Peteraj wrote:
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:01, iriXx wrote:
no, i think spamming my inbox with greater frequency than the MyDoom
virus, and with less purpose, is trolling.
m~
--
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety.
--Benjamin Franklin
|\ _,,,---,,_
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ HTTP 503: Too Busy
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL
.::. www.iriXx.org .::. www.copyleftmedia.org.uk .::.
Marek Peteraj wrote:
I'm sorry miriam. You think that critisism in general = trolling.
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:51, iriXx wrote:
not being a troll.
not boring people with incessant sour grapes.
listening, not hammering us over the head.
sit and listen to what we're doing for a while - without speaking,
without judging, just listen.
then start to think.
Marek Peteraj wrote:
>On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:32, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>people are trying to
>>get something done here.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Oh one more thing, Joern. In case you didn't *get* it. I'd like to help
>out very much. I have a degree in law. I have designed a site of one
>linux audio project and the site of one of the "consortium" members.
>So...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
so start working with us, constructively, instead of working against us.
So what's constructively?
10:35 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:39, iriXx wrote:
Marek Peteraj wrote:
You're pretty rude don't you think? For someone claiming he/she wasn't
threated well on LAD.
Marek
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:01, iriXx wrote:
no, i think spamming my inbox with greater frequency than the MyDoom
virus, and with less purpose, is trolling.
oh, and if you'd kindly refer to me as iriXx, as everyone else does.
only my close friends are permitted to call me by my first name. Marek Peteraj wrote:
I'm sorry miriam. You think that critisism in general = trolling.
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:51, iriXx wrote:
>Marek Peteraj wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>>On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:32, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>people are trying to
>>>get something done here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Oh one more thing, Joern. In case you didn't *get* it. I'd like to help
>>out very much. I have a degree in law. I have designed a site of one
>>linux audio project and the site of one of the "consortium" members.
>>So...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>so start working with us, constructively, instead of working against us.
>
>
>
>
So what's constructively?
not being a troll.
not boring people with incessant sour grapes.
listening, not hammering us over the head.
sit and listen to what we're doing for a while - without speaking,
without judging, just listen.
then start to think.
10:31 p.m.
New subject: [OT] Re: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
Marek Peteraj wrote:
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 20:01, iriXx wrote:
oh, and if you'd kindly refer to me as iriXx, as everyone else does.
only my close friends are permitted to call me by my first name.
m~
--
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety.
--Benjamin Franklin
|\ _,,,---,,_
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ HTTP 503: Too Busy
|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) fL
.::. www.iriXx.org .::. www.copyleftmedia.org.uk .::.
Marek Peteraj wrote:
I'm sorry miriam. You think that critisism in general = trolling.
On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:51, iriXx wrote:
not being a troll.
not boring people with incessant sour grapes.
listening, not hammering us over the head.
sit and listen to what we're doing for a while - without speaking,
without judging, just listen.
then start to think.
Marek Peteraj wrote:
>On Mon, 2004-02-02 at 19:32, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>people are trying to
>>get something done here.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Oh one more thing, Joern. In case you didn't *get* it. I'd like to help
>out very much. I have a degree in law. I have designed a site of one
>linux audio project and the site of one of the "consortium" members.
>So...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
so start working with us, constructively, instead of working against us.
So what's constructively?
3 Feb
3 Feb
12:26 p.m.
New subject: search words for LAUD websites [wasRe: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...]
Chris Cannam wrote:
On Monday 02 Feb 2004 2:02 am, Marek Peteraj wrote:
This is an important point. Over the past few years I have found the
words that are most used in searches for the lau-guide are music and
sound. Audio is up there though.
Eg. for January:
Top 20 of 1545 Total Search Strings # Hits Search String
1 149 6.02% linux audio
2 73 2.95% ardour
3 37 1.49% vst linux
4 25 1.01% linux sound howto
5 21 0.85% alsa howto
6 21 0.85% ardour tutorial
7 20 0.81% timidity linux
8 18 0.73% linux vst
9 17 0.69% timidity howto
10 15 0.61% timidity
11 14 0.57% linux sound faq
12 14 0.57% terminatorx linux
13 14 0.57% timidity.cfg
14 13 0.53% ardour howto
15 13 0.53% linux audio howto
16 13 0.53% linux sound
17 12 0.48% linux sound cards
18 11 0.44% foomatic-rip
19 11 0.44% linux audio users
20 11 0.44% toots
Interestingly djcj.org had 27900 visits in Jan and 26465 in Dec. Not bad
for a docs site. A Daily average of between 800 and 900.
--
Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
Http://www.boosthardware.com
Http://www.djcj.org/LAU/guide/ - The Linux Audio Users guide
Http://www.djcj.org/gigs/ - Gigs guide Korea
========================================
Apparently upon the beginning of the barrage, the donkey broke
discipline and panicked, toppling the cart. At that point, the rockets
disconnected from the timer, leaving them strewn around the street.
Tethered to the now toppled cart, the donkey was unable to escape before
the arrival of U.S. troops.
United Press International
Rockets on donkeys hit major Baghdad sites
By P. MITCHELL PROTHERO
Published 11/21/2003 11:13 AM
Linux Audio.
You can't have a better promotion than having a domain name with
exactly that name - Linux Audio.
Well, you see, I'm not so convinced that it is such an obvious name as
you think.
I think the apparent obviousness of it is a projection of the fact
that as developers or engineers we mostly seem to think of what we do
as "audio". I'm not so sure that "audio" is going to be the
obvious
defining word to any user who is not an audio engineer by trade.
2 Feb
2 Feb
2:49 p.m.
New subject: linux audio base djcj linux-sound apps and midi page etc...
Marek Peteraj <marpet(a)naex.sk> writes:
[...]
Yes, this is
nice, and I like, that every app has a screenshot or
icon. This would be nice for a linuxaudiobase.org as well. Paul's
design from 2002 looks dated now, I guess it was just meant as a
prototype anyway.
RDF-ing the site would be a natural thing to do,
IMO. Data storage
might still be done inside a db server, but at least an RDF for
syndication should be provided. Then the content could get
cross-promoted on djcj.org, linuxadudio.org and similar sites.
The question is - why having dozens of sites with linuxaudio unrelated names
such as djcj.org or linuxaudiobase.org if you can have all under linuxaudio.org? You can't have a better promotion than having a
domain name with exactly that name -
Linux Audio.
I thought this was precisely the rationale behind the idea of
providing subdomains of linuxaudio.org that could point to other pages
(I don't like to force anyone to use a name for their domain).
bye,
andrea
7382
days inactive
7383
days old
consortium@lists.linuxaudio.org
32 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Andrea Glorioso -
Chris Cannam -
iriXx -
Joern Nettingsmeier -
Marek Peteraj -
Patrick Shirkey -
Richard Bown