18 Mar
2005
18 Mar
'05
8:54 p.m.
Il giorno ven, 18-03-2005 alle 09:35 -0800, Mark Knecht ha scritto:
There is no reason that these two
orgranizations/projects couldn't
leverage off of each others work. Gig files are indeed forst and
foremost a collection of wave files, but gig files support many things
beyond just the wave files so making a good gig file is more than just
collecting the wave files together into a single gig file.
Note that to date there is no work going on to make a Gig file editor
under Linux that I know of. I still use the ones that come with the
different versions of GigaStudio.
I think that swami already support editing of gig file. Yes swami could
be improved but is a good starting point in sampling editing [1][2].
It could be posted a tutorial on oneshotsampler about creating good
Gigafile instead of simple wave file.
If linuxaudio consortuim could give the hardware infrastructure for
hosting Gigafiles in oneshotsampler we could have an usable sampling
free software/free sampler banks infrastructure in linux (like
gigastudio and sampletank in windows), hoping that Swami will improve as
SoundFont 2.0, DLS and GigaSampler frontend editor/manager.
What do u think about this solution?
Cheers,
Stefano
[1]http://swami.sourceforge.net/
[2]http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=6272148&forum_…
18 Mar
18 Mar
9:31 p.m.
New subject: [Linuxsampler-devel] Re: linuxsampler and oneshotsampler
Hi Stefano,
I think that swami already support editing of gig
file.
According to the website, that feature is in the development version.
It could be posted a tutorial on oneshotsampler about
creating good
Gigafile instead of simple wave file.
If someone from the linuxsampler project has that information then it
would good to disseminate it - maybe as a 'quicktoot'. I personally
have some good microphones, and record plenty of real instruments
that could provide samples.
If linuxaudio consortuim could give the hardware
infrastructure for
hosting Gigafiles in oneshotsampler we could have an usable
sampling free software/free sampler banks infrastructure
I'm afraid linuxaudio.org does not currently own any hardware which it
could donate, but you could try asking member projects. AGNULA Libre
Music hosts complete works, but I don't think they are doing samples
as yet.
If you're talking about the really large samples, I think they might
exceed disc space and bandwidth limitations quite quickly on any
hosted machine. Perhaps a peer-to-peer infrastructure based around
BitTorrent would work.
Cheers
Daniel James
Director
http://linuxaudio.org
9:48 p.m.
New subject: [Linuxsampler-devel] Re: linuxsampler and oneshotsampler
Il giorno ven, 18-03-2005 alle 19:40 +0000, Daniel James ha scritto:
Always from a mail of Josh Green 2005-01-03 in swami-devel mailiglist:
I"m getting ready to unveil an online instrument database for sharing
instruments. It already supports GigaSampler, SoundFont and DLS. It
needs a bit of beta testing though before going public. I"ll definitely
announce it on the Swami devel list when I could use some testers.
////
Probably there is only need the hard disk space for uploading samples, the better choice
for distributing free giga collection could be done done trough bittorrent files on the
site.
Probably oneshotsample could collaborate with this archive of Josh Green (swami
developer)?
Cheers,
Stefano
Hi Stefano,
Nice to hear that linuxsampler is improving, I hope they provide an API
for it to be used generically for other than GigaSampler files (I must
admit I"m biased towards that proprietary format). There is still a bit
of work to do to add GigaSampler support to libInstPatch/Swami. I"m
working now to get Swami 1.0 fully functional, and that in itself still
needs a bit of work. Once that is done I will look into adding more
complete GigaSampler support. Right now it will just load it as a DLS
file (samples are parsed and instrument names, but not much else), and
there is no save support for GigaSampler yet.
I think that swami already support editing of gig
file.
According to the website, that feature is in the development version.
From a mail of Josh Green 2005-01-03 in swami-devel mailiglist: It could be
posted a tutorial on oneshotsampler about creating good
Gigafile instead of simple wave file.
If someone from the linuxsampler project has that
information then it
would good to disseminate it - maybe as a 'quicktoot'. I personally
have some good microphones, and record plenty of real instruments
that could provide samples.
Good idea.
If linuxaudio
consortuim could give the hardware infrastructure for
hosting Gigafiles in oneshotsampler we could have an usable
sampling free software/free sampler banks infrastructure
I'm afraid linuxaudio.org does not currently own any hardware which it
could donate, but you could try asking member projects. AGNULA Libre
Music hosts complete works, but I don't think they are doing samples
as yet.
If you're talking about the really large samples, I think they might
exceed disc space and bandwidth limitations quite quickly on any
hosted machine. Perhaps a peer-to-peer infrastructure based around
BitTorrent would work. 
19 Mar
19 Mar
12:13 a.m.
New subject: [Linuxsampler-devel] Re: linuxsampler and oneshotsampler
Es geschah am Freitag 18 März 2005 21:59 als Bluefuture schrieb:
Il giorno ven, 18-03-2005 alle 19:40 +0000, Daniel
James ha scritto:
Yes, LS is designed to support different kinds of sampler engines. We just
concentrated on the Gig format, as we thought it to offer the most promising
instrument libraries. As we meanwhile support this format quite well, we hope
to start implementing other sampler engines (that is other formats) very
soon. Personally I'm especially keen to add support for Akai and a complete
new and free sampler format. Which brings me to another point:
Shouldn't we better design a new, free sampler format instead of using
proprietary formats for free instruments? Because it will take much longer to
develop (or adjust existing) instrument loaders & editors to be fully
compliant with proprietary formats (due to missing specs) than developing
editors for a free, well defined new format. And think about all the
drawbacks of exiting, proprietary formats. E.g. I would appreciate also to be
able to edit an instrument on the console in case (tar - XML).
Hi Stefano,
Nice to hear that linuxsampler is improving, I hope they provide an API
for it to be used generically for other than GigaSampler files (I must
admit I"m biased towards that proprietary format). I think that swami already support editing of gig
file.
According to the website, that feature is in the development version.
From a mail of Josh Green 2005-01-03 in swami-devel mailiglist: There is still a bit
of work to do to add GigaSampler support to libInstPatch/Swami. I"m
I wonder if the Gigasampler format fully fits into the Swami environment.
Wouldn't it mean quite a (design) change in libinstpatch & Swami to be able
to cover the whole Gigasampler format (up to GSt 3.0) with write support?
> > It could be posted a tutorial on
oneshotsampler about creating good
> > Gigafile instead of simple wave file.
>
> If someone from the linuxsampler project has that information then it
> would good to disseminate it - maybe as a 'quicktoot'. I personally
> have some good microphones, and record plenty of real instruments
> that could provide samples.
Well, do you have GSt editor? We could provide some documentation about the
Gigasampler format if somebody's really interested. Once you know the
possiblities of the format, I guess you won't have much problems to get into
any instrument editor that supports the Gig format. But learning to produce
*good* patches might still take you some time.
As libgig already supports (reading) the Gigasampler format up to GSt 3.0
quite well and libgig is not too big, we could also add write support to
libgig without too much work. But then still somebody would have to write an
instrument editor on top of libgig.
And at the end I still doubt if it's worth the effort and if it wouldn't be
better to build on a free, well designed sampler format.
Good idea.
> > If linuxaudio consortuim could give the hardware infrastructure for
> > hosting Gigafiles in oneshotsampler we could have an usable
> > sampling free software/free sampler banks infrastructure
>
> I'm afraid linuxaudio.org does not currently own any hardware which it
> could donate, but you could try asking member projects. AGNULA Libre
> Music hosts complete works, but I don't think they are doing samples
> as yet.
> If you're talking about the really large samples, I think they might
> exceed disc space and bandwidth limitations quite quickly on any
> hosted machine. Perhaps a peer-to-peer infrastructure based around
> BitTorrent would work.
We could offer quite some GB for patches and we have a large bandwith. But on
the long term I agree we might have to use a distributed solution like
bittorent.
CU
Christian
[http://www.linuxsampler.org]
1:24 a.m.
New subject: [Swami-devel] Re: [Linuxsampler-devel] Re: linuxsampler and oneshotsampler
On Fri, 2005-03-18 at 23:17 +0100, Christian Schoenebeck wrote:
Not really, libInstPatch was designed to handle multiple instrument
formats (it already supports DLS which as you know GIG is an extension
of). You may be thinking of older Swami 0.9.x and libInstPatch which
were very SF2 oriented. Granted, native GigaSampler write support isn't
a priority for me, since I consider it one of the more proprietary of
the currently supported formats. I'd much rather someone store to a
more open format but still be able to leverage off of gig files,
although I would love to see good native support in Swami for gig.
Yes, LS is designed to support different kinds of
sampler engines. We just
concentrated on the Gig format, as we thought it to offer the most promising
instrument libraries. As we meanwhile support this format quite well, we hope
to start implementing other sampler engines (that is other formats) very
soon. Personally I'm especially keen to add support for Akai and a complete
new and free sampler format. Which brings me to another point:
Shouldn't we better design a new, free sampler format instead of using
proprietary formats for free instruments? Because it will take much longer to
develop (or adjust existing) instrument loaders & editors to be fully
compliant with proprietary formats (due to missing specs) than developing
editors for a free, well defined new format. And think about all the
drawbacks of exiting, proprietary formats. E.g. I would appreciate also to be
able to edit an instrument on the console in case (tar - XML).
Yes, I agree it would be good to design an open standard. SF2 is a
rather open standard, but rather limited. DLS is pretty open standard
and much more flexible, but it is hard to get free documentation on the
DLS2 format (they want you to buy it). XML and FLAC/WAV sounds good to
me. I've been thinking, that with the current OO nature of libInstPatch
it would be pretty easy just to export the object properties to XML
which would lead to a "standard" for storing any formats that
libInstPatch supports.
My particular interest in linuxsampler is in writing a linuxsampler
plugin to Swami for supporting multiple instrument formats (like what is
currently possible with FluidSynth, albeit in a SoundFont oriented way).
There is
still a bit
of work to do to add GigaSampler support to libInstPatch/Swami. I"m
I wonder if the Gigasampler format fully fits into the Swami environment.
Wouldn't it mean quite a (design) change in libinstpatch & Swami to be able
to cover the whole Gigasampler format (up to GSt 3.0) with write support?
CU
Christian
[http://www.linuxsampler.org]
Cheers.
Josh Green
1:35 a.m.
New subject: [Swami-devel] Re: [Linuxsampler-devel] Re: linuxsampler and oneshotsampler
Il giorno ven, 18-03-2005 alle 15:37 -0800, Josh Green ha scritto:
Yes, I agree it would be good to design an open
standard. SF2 is a
rather open standard, but rather limited. DLS is pretty open standard
and much more flexible, but it is hard to get free documentation on the
DLS2 format (they want you to buy it).
There are free download pdf[1] of :
DLS-1: Downloadable Sounds Level 1.x
* Overview of DLS (c1997)
* DLS Level 1 Specification Free Download (pdf)
(New! Sept 2004 edition contains a correction for response to
"Reset All Controllers".)
DLS-2: Downloadable Sounds 2.x
* DLS Level 2.1 Specification (c2000)
* Amendment 1 to DLS Level 2 ("DLS Level 2.1") (c2001) Free
Download (pdf)
(Note: Document corrections were made in September and November
2004.)
There is something other than this specs?
Cheers,
Stefano
[1] http://www.midi.org/about-midi/dls/abtdls.shtml
2:56 a.m.
New subject: [Swami-devel] Re: [Linuxsampler-devel] Re: linuxsampler and oneshotsampler
On Sat, 2005-03-19 at 01:46 +0100, Bluefuture wrote:
Il giorno ven, 18-03-2005 alle 15:37 -0800, Josh Green
ha scritto:
Those are the only specs I know of, but you'll note that while DLS-1 has
a download-able PDF, DLS2 is by mail order only. Even then they don't
give you a PDF, so you have a nice 3 ring binder to lug around. I've
spoken with individuals at midi.org about this, but they seem to feel
that selling the documentation is a good fund raiser, and don't see that
it limits the openness and adoption of their standard (which is what I
feel about it). Tis a shame. DLS2 has some fairly significant
extensions to DLS1, but the DLS1 doc can be used as a good starting
point. I've considered writing a little addendum that would describe
the differences between DLS1 and 2, to create a convenient electronic
source of this info. Cheers.
Josh Green
Yes, I agree it would be good to design an open
standard. SF2 is a
rather open standard, but rather limited. DLS is pretty open standard
and much more flexible, but it is hard to get free documentation on the
DLS2 format (they want you to buy it).
There are free download pdf[1] of :
DLS-1: Downloadable Sounds Level 1.x
* Overview of DLS (c1997)
* DLS Level 1 Specification Free Download (pdf)
(New! Sept 2004 edition contains a correction for response to
"Reset All Controllers".)
DLS-2: Downloadable Sounds 2.x
* DLS Level 2.1 Specification (c2000)
* Amendment 1 to DLS Level 2 ("DLS Level 2.1") (c2001) Free
Download (pdf)
(Note: Document corrections were made in September and November
2004.)
There is something other than this specs?
Cheers,
Stefano
[1] http://www.midi.org/about-midi/dls/abtdls.shtml
1:08 a.m.
New subject: [Swami-devel] Re: [Linuxsampler-devel] Re: linuxsampler and oneshotsampler
On Fri, 2005-03-18 at 21:59 +0100, Bluefuture wrote:
<cut>
Probably there is only need the hard disk space for
uploading samples, the better choice
for distributing free giga collection could be done done trough bittorrent files on the
site.
Probably oneshotsample could collaborate with this archive of Josh Green (swami
developer)?
Cheers,
Stefano
Here is a link to a preview of the instrument database I am working on:
http://patches.resonance.org/patches.py
Its not quite yet ready, but it will give you an idea of whats in store.
It should work with GigaSampler at this point, but I haven't thoroughly
tested it yet.
I was thinking that bittorrent would probably not be ideal for an
instrument database. This is because generally its a lot of downloads
spread over a wide selection of files. bittorrent seems more useful for
the case when there is a new release of a large file that gets hammered,
but as the file becomes less popular the number of sources diminishes
drastically as users close their clients. I was thinking of using the
edonkey network for this reason in addition to WWW/FTP mirrors (rsynced
nightly).
Resonance Instrument Database features (some still in the works):
- ed2k links for the edonkey network
- All files compressed with CRAM (Compress hybRid Audio Media)
http://swami.sourceforge.net/cram.php
- rating/comment system
- instrument/sample information imported directly from patch files
- preview instruments using ogg streaming and a form for sending MIDI
notes (GStreamer media server using FluidSynth or other soft synth)
Not sure what kind of collaboration would make sense, but I'm open to
ideas. Cheers.
Josh Green
18 Mar
18 Mar
10 p.m.
New subject: [Linuxsampler-devel] Re: linuxsampler and oneshotsampler
Hello all, it seems that oneshotsamples is implicated in something very
interesting for me :)
If you're talking about the really large samples,
I think they might
exceed disc space and bandwidth limitations quite quickly on any
hosted machine.
It depends where the gig file is created...
I mean perhaps it could be made on the client side.
Thanks stefano to have pointing oneshotsamples as a good candidate.
Regards
Philippe
19 Mar
19 Mar
12:54 a.m.
New subject: [Swami-devel] Re: [Linuxsampler-devel] Re: linuxsampler and oneshotsampler
On Fri, 2005-03-18 at 21:05 +0100, Bluefuture wrote:
Il giorno ven, 18-03-2005 alle 09:35 -0800, Mark
Knecht ha scritto:
Hello,
the current development cycle for the Swami 1.x branch has been almost 3
years in the making without a fully functional release. I'm confident
in the architecture in regards to creating a multi instrument patch
format editing platform, but there is still a bit of work to do. There
is very minimal support for GigaSampler files at this point. I've
decided to make DLS the "native" format of Swami. Rather than having to
create converters from every instrument type to every other supported
type, DLS would be used as the master format that is converted to/from.
When not converting formats though, files would still be edited natively
(at least this is the plan).
Current features of libInstPatch:
- object oriented instrument editing library (uses GObject)
- support for multiple formats (SF2, DLS and partial GigaSampler
currently)
- Python binding for scripting editing tasks
- CRAM (Compress hybRid Audio Media) - a format created to compress
binary/audio hybrid files such as patch files (DLS, SF2 and Gig
supported)
- audio format conversion
- extendable sample data storage methods
Areas that need attention in libInstPatch:
- Finalize units handling and conversion system
- Implement more object converters between instrument object types
- Finish object paste system
- Cleanup the Python binding
- Finish voice caching mechanism for soft synths. Instrument objects
are rendered into voices compatible with a particular soft synth
(rendering occurs during program change for example), which can then be
accessed very quickly when note on received.
Current features of Swami:
- Object oriented user interface (drag and drop controls, split views,
etc)
- Model/view/controller parameter network for parameter controls and
MIDI event routing (change a parameter, changes all views)
- some nice GnomeCanvas based controls for sample loop editing (sample
loop crossing view), editing splits, and scalable virtual piano.
- Python shell (needs some work)
Areas needing attention:
- Interface manager needs to be even more object oriented (some cleanup)
- Preferences and XML config save/restore
- Undo state manager
- Finish FFT auto sample tuning plugin
- More object oriented device creation and config (MIDI drivers, soft
synths, etc)
- Paste GUI
- Some general love to pull the whole beast together
My development laptop recently broke, but once I get it back in order I
will return to these projects. I would really like to have more
developers involved, since this project is turning out to be quite a bit
bigger than I anticipated, so please contact me or the swami-devel list
if you are interested. There is a lot of potential for collaboration
between projects too and I think it would be good to discuss how this
can happen. There is still quite a huge TODO list for
libInstPatch/Swami though, but its getting there :) Cheers.
Josh Green
There is no reason that these two
orgranizations/projects couldn't
leverage off of each others work. Gig files are indeed forst and
foremost a collection of wave files, but gig files support many things
beyond just the wave files so making a good gig file is more than just
collecting the wave files together into a single gig file.
Note that to date there is no work going on to make a Gig file editor
under Linux that I know of. I still use the ones that come with the
different versions of GigaStudio.
I think that swami already support editing of gig file. Yes swami could
be improved but is a good starting point in sampling editing [1][2].
It could be posted a tutorial on oneshotsampler about creating good
Gigafile instead of simple wave file.
If linuxaudio consortuim could give the hardware infrastructure for
hosting Gigafiles in oneshotsampler we could have an usable sampling
free software/free sampler banks infrastructure in linux (like
gigastudio and sampletank in windows), hoping that Swami will improve as
SoundFont 2.0, DLS and GigaSampler frontend editor/manager.
What do u think about this solution?
Cheers,
Stefano
[1]http://swami.sourceforge.net/
[2]http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=6272148&forum_…
6972
days inactive
6973
days old
consortium@lists.linuxaudio.org
10 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Bluefuture -
Christian Schoenebeck -
Daniel James -
Josh Green -
Josh Green -
Oneshot Samples