30 Nov
2008
30 Nov
'08
12:55 a.m.
hi...
now that the backend is mostly done, i am thinking about
a GUI for netjack.
i already found gtknetsource.py on my HD, i started mucking
with that some months ago.
i plan to extend that thingy now.
but setting up the connection, and getting IP addresses
of users is still a PITA.
i am thinking along the lines of an IM like thing,
based on jabber.
i am not seeing good options to making this available
in the various IM clients.
thats why i would rather like to have modified jabberd running
on jackaudio.org or at the consortium servers.
it would not support chatting or stuff.
only show who is online. and if a session is running.
it would only make the IP of a user available when he agrees,
to open session... blabla... security.
so basically you click on your buddy, to open a session.
buddy agrees.
IP of buddy is transmitted. tool measures connection.
provides you with some options.
ie compression ratio, number of channels, latency, who is master ?
and starts the netjack session.
thoughts ?
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
30 Nov
30 Nov
1:27 p.m.
On Saturday 29 November 2008 23:50:32 torbenh(a)gmx.de wrote:
hi...
now that the backend is mostly done, i am thinking about
a GUI for netjack.
i already found gtknetsource.py on my HD, i started mucking
with that some months ago.
i plan to extend that thingy now.
but setting up the connection, and getting IP addresses
of users is still a PITA.
i am thinking along the lines of an IM like thing,
based on jabber.
i am not seeing good options to making this available
in the various IM clients.
thats why i would rather like to have modified jabberd running
on jackaudio.org or at the consortium servers.
it would not support chatting or stuff.
only show who is online. and if a session is running.
it would only make the IP of a user available when he agrees,
to open session... blabla... security.
so basically you click on your buddy, to open a session.
buddy agrees.
IP of buddy is transmitted. tool measures connection.
provides you with some options.
ie compression ratio, number of channels, latency, who is master ?
and starts the netjack session.
thoughts ?
Does irclib for python help?
Creates a python irc client, which you can then have only the options you
propose.
Not jabber based though.
sincerely,
Marije
11:37 p.m.
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 12:27:41PM -0500, nescivi wrote:
On Saturday 29 November 2008 23:50:32 torbenh(a)gmx.de
wrote:
this might be a very good alternative.
one would need to register a second nick on freenode for this i guess.
it would still not be easy to detect the IP of a peer, if he was using a
cloak. i basically want to expose IP only if user agrees.
and detecting IP from inside NAT is not trivial.
not sure how i should tacke this. i there some service out there,
which can tell me my IP if i open a TCP connection to it ?
if you have a solution for this, irc would become my choice i guess ;D
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
hi...
now that the backend is mostly done, i am thinking about
a GUI for netjack.
i already found gtknetsource.py on my HD, i started mucking
with that some months ago.
i plan to extend that thingy now.
but setting up the connection, and getting IP addresses
of users is still a PITA.
i am thinking along the lines of an IM like thing,
based on jabber.
i am not seeing good options to making this available
in the various IM clients.
thats why i would rather like to have modified jabberd running
on jackaudio.org or at the consortium servers.
it would not support chatting or stuff.
only show who is online. and if a session is running.
it would only make the IP of a user available when he agrees,
to open session... blabla... security.
so basically you click on your buddy, to open a session.
buddy agrees.
IP of buddy is transmitted. tool measures connection.
provides you with some options.
ie compression ratio, number of channels, latency, who is master ?
and starts the netjack session.
thoughts ?
Does irclib for python help?
Creates a python irc client, which you can then have only the options you
propose.
Not jabber based though.
11:45 p.m.
Hiho,
On Sunday 30 November 2008 22:32:10 torbenh(a)gmx.de wrote:
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 12:27:41PM -0500, nescivi
wrote:
Hmm... not really.
Although.. sk wrote a http-tunnel for a project of ours once in ruby, to
tunnel osc messages to the outside world, so I could control a remote
scsynth, regardless of firewalls, that may be in between.
But it required a server running a host script, which connected the tunnels.
It's a bit convoluted, and may send audio streams around with some detour,
depending where the server is, and where the participants are.
But I'm sure linuxaudio.org would be eager to give some bandwidth ;)
Maybe our LAC streamteam has some brilliant idea how to do this...
sincerely,
Marije
On Saturday 29 November 2008 23:50:32
torbenh(a)gmx.de wrote:
this might be a very good alternative.
one would need to register a second nick on freenode for this i guess.
it would still not be easy to detect the IP of a peer, if he was using a
cloak. i basically want to expose IP only if user agrees.
and detecting IP from inside NAT is not trivial.
not sure how i should tacke this. i there some service out there,
which can tell me my IP if i open a TCP connection to it ?
if you have a solution for this, irc would become my choice i guess ;D hi...
now that the backend is mostly done, i am thinking about
a GUI for netjack.
i already found gtknetsource.py on my HD, i started mucking
with that some months ago.
i plan to extend that thingy now.
but setting up the connection, and getting IP addresses
of users is still a PITA.
i am thinking along the lines of an IM like thing,
based on jabber.
i am not seeing good options to making this available
in the various IM clients.
thats why i would rather like to have modified jabberd running
on jackaudio.org or at the consortium servers.
it would not support chatting or stuff.
only show who is online. and if a session is running.
it would only make the IP of a user available when he agrees,
to open session... blabla... security.
so basically you click on your buddy, to open a session.
buddy agrees.
IP of buddy is transmitted. tool measures connection.
provides you with some options.
ie compression ratio, number of channels, latency, who is master ?
and starts the netjack session.
thoughts ?
Does irclib for python help?
Creates a python irc client, which you can then have only the options you
propose.
Not jabber based though.
1 Dec
1 Dec
1:06 a.m.
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 10:45:49PM -0500, nescivi wrote:
Hiho,
On Sunday 30 November 2008 22:32:10 torbenh(a)gmx.de wrote:
TCP is nono.
netjack handles packet loss now. you dont even hear it with celt.
we should start talking about a wireless netjack soundcard.
i bet you have some use for that ;)
celt is ported to ARM.
and even support non-fpu.
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 12:27:41PM -0500, nescivi
wrote:
Hmm... not really.
Although.. sk wrote a http-tunnel for a project of ours once in ruby, to
tunnel osc messages to the outside world, so I could control a remote
scsynth, regardless of firewalls, that may be in between.
But it required a server running a host script, which connected the tunnels. On Saturday 29 November 2008 23:50:32
torbenh(a)gmx.de wrote:
this might be a very good alternative.
one would need to register a second nick on freenode for this i guess.
it would still not be easy to detect the IP of a peer, if he was using a
cloak. i basically want to expose IP only if user agrees.
and detecting IP from inside NAT is not trivial.
not sure how i should tacke this. i there some service out there,
which can tell me my IP if i open a TCP connection to it ?
if you have a solution for this, irc would become my choice i guess ;D hi...
now that the backend is mostly done, i am thinking about
a GUI for netjack.
i already found gtknetsource.py on my HD, i started mucking
with that some months ago.
i plan to extend that thingy now.
but setting up the connection, and getting IP addresses
of users is still a PITA.
i am thinking along the lines of an IM like thing,
based on jabber.
i am not seeing good options to making this available
in the various IM clients.
thats why i would rather like to have modified jabberd running
on jackaudio.org or at the consortium servers.
it would not support chatting or stuff.
only show who is online. and if a session is running.
it would only make the IP of a user available when he agrees,
to open session... blabla... security.
so basically you click on your buddy, to open a session.
buddy agrees.
IP of buddy is transmitted. tool measures connection.
provides you with some options.
ie compression ratio, number of channels, latency, who is master ?
and starts the netjack session.
thoughts ?
Does irclib for python help?
Creates a python irc client, which you can then have only the options you
propose.
Not jabber based though. It's a bit convoluted, and may send audio streams
around with some detour,
depending where the server is, and where the participants are.
But I'm sure linuxaudio.org would be eager to give some bandwidth ;)
no detours also. they add unnecesary latency and jitter.
we have the possibility for 10ms latency netjack on dfn.
why sacrifice with a tour through the states ? :)
Maybe our LAC streamteam has some brilliant idea how to do this...
sincerely,
Marije
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
1:25 a.m.
Hiho,
On Monday 01 December 2008 00:02:04 torbenh(a)gmx.de wrote:
Hmm... not really.
Although.. sk wrote a http-tunnel for a project of ours once in ruby, to
tunnel osc messages to the outside world, so I could control a remote
scsynth, regardless of firewalls, that may be in between.
But it required a server running a host script, which connected the
tunnels.
TCP is nono.
netjack handles packet loss now. you dont even hear it with celt.
we should start talking about a wireless netjack soundcard.
i bet you have some use for that ;)
celt is ported to ARM.
and even support non-fpu.
I can think of something, yes...
hmm...
sounds good.
sincerely,
Marije
PS, having a long coding night, this night?
Does irclib
for python help?
Creates a python irc client, which you can then have only the options
you propose.
Not jabber based though.
this might be a very good alternative.
one would need to register a second nick on freenode for this i guess.
it would still not be easy to detect the IP of a peer, if he was using
a cloak. i basically want to expose IP only if user agrees.
and detecting IP from inside NAT is not trivial.
not sure how i should tacke this. i there some service out there,
which can tell me my IP if i open a TCP connection to it ?
if you have a solution for this, irc would become my choice i guess ;D It's a bit
convoluted, and may send audio streams around with some
detour, depending where the server is, and where the participants are.
But I'm sure linuxaudio.org would be eager to give some bandwidth ;)
no detours also. they add unnecesary latency and jitter.
we have the possibility for 10ms latency netjack on dfn. 
9:13 a.m.
nescivi wrote:
Hiho,
On Sunday 30 November 2008 22:32:10 torbenh(a)gmx.de wrote:
this part of the lac streamteam must confess it doesn't have the
faintest... which may partly be attributed to sushi deprival syndrome.
even though i hosted stefan's nat-piercing script for one of marije's
projects, i never bothered to find out how it works... i guess it's a
reflector that actually bounces the data back and forth.
i'm very sure that's not what you want for a netjack connection if you
care for latency. plus you would burn huge amounts of bandwidth for
basically nothing.
the way i see it, if you want to netjack between two natted hosts,
there's no easy way around port forwardings on both ends. which is fine
imho, since we are not competing with skype here, are we?
for the simple case (both end points have real ip addresses), some
simple directory script (such as the icecast streamer list) might
suffice, but the cool thing about the jabber idea is you can ssl it and
maybe also use it to agree on a login procedure without having to post
your ip (and hence, your open netjack port) for all the world to see.
(btw, torben, great to hear from you again! do get in touch if you ever
need a crashpad in essen.)
best,
jörn
--
jörn nettingsmeier
home://germany/45128 essen/lortzingstr. 11/
http://spunk.dnsalias.org
phone://+49/201/491621
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 12:27:41PM -0500, nescivi
wrote:
Hmm... not really.
Although.. sk wrote a http-tunnel for a project of ours once in ruby, to
tunnel osc messages to the outside world, so I could control a remote
scsynth, regardless of firewalls, that may be in between.
But it required a server running a host script, which connected the tunnels.
It's a bit convoluted, and may send audio streams around with some detour,
depending where the server is, and where the participants are.
But I'm sure linuxaudio.org would be eager to give some bandwidth ;)
Maybe our LAC streamteam has some brilliant idea how to do this... On Saturday 29 November 2008 23:50:32
torbenh(a)gmx.de wrote:
this might be a very good alternative.
one would need to register a second nick on freenode for this i guess.
it would still not be easy to detect the IP of a peer, if he was using a
cloak. i basically want to expose IP only if user agrees.
and detecting IP from inside NAT is not trivial.
not sure how i should tacke this. i there some service out there,
which can tell me my IP if i open a TCP connection to it ?
if you have a solution for this, irc would become my choice i guess ;D hi...
now that the backend is mostly done, i am thinking about
a GUI for netjack.
i already found gtknetsource.py on my HD, i started mucking
with that some months ago.
i plan to extend that thingy now.
but setting up the connection, and getting IP addresses
of users is still a PITA.
i am thinking along the lines of an IM like thing,
based on jabber.
i am not seeing good options to making this available
in the various IM clients.
thats why i would rather like to have modified jabberd running
on jackaudio.org or at the consortium servers.
it would not support chatting or stuff.
only show who is online. and if a session is running.
it would only make the IP of a user available when he agrees,
to open session... blabla... security.
so basically you click on your buddy, to open a session.
buddy agrees.
IP of buddy is transmitted. tool measures connection.
provides you with some options.
ie compression ratio, number of channels, latency, who is master ?
and starts the netjack session.
thoughts ?
Does irclib for python help?
Creates a python irc client, which you can then have only the options you
propose.
Not jabber based though.
10:22 a.m.
On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 02:06:30PM +0100, Joern Nettingsmeier wrote:
yep.... i dont want a reflector at all.
>>
>> if you have a solution for this, irc would become my choice i guess ;D
hmmm... i have a solution now: http://checkip.dyndns.org/
Hmm... not really.
Although.. sk wrote a http-tunnel for a project of ours once in ruby, to
tunnel osc messages to the outside world, so I could control a remote
scsynth, regardless of firewalls, that may be in between.
But it required a server running a host script, which connected the tunnels.
It's a bit convoluted, and may send audio streams around with some detour,
depending where the server is, and where the participants are.
But I'm sure linuxaudio.org would be eager to give some bandwidth ;)
Maybe our LAC streamteam has some brilliant idea how to do this...
this part of the lac streamteam must confess it doesn't have the
faintest... which may partly be attributed to sushi deprival syndrome.
even though i hosted stefan's nat-piercing script for one of marije's
projects, i never bothered to find out how it works... i guess it's a
reflector that actually bounces the data back and forth.
i'm very sure that's not what you want for a netjack connection if you
care for latency. plus you would burn huge amounts of bandwidth for
basically nothing. the way i see it, if you want to netjack between two
natted hosts,
there's no easy way around port forwardings on both ends. which is fine
i dont want to get around port forwarding.
there is still the possibility to use UPNP to open the
port. anybody knows a library or code fragment for this ?
it would at least provide for randomized port numbers.
(If your router supports it... mine does, but i deactivated it ;S
imho, since we are not competing with skype here, are
we?
hmmm... i guess skype is not competing with us ;)
we are providing N channel support, midi transport,
low-latency lan operation. A musical codec...
transport synchronisation.
hehe :)
i need to research the possibility for cloud DSPing :D
ie rent your lexicon to other studios... lol.
for the simple case (both end points have real ip
addresses), some
simple directory script (such as the icecast streamer list) might
suffice, but the cool thing about the jabber idea is you can ssl it and
maybe also use it to agree on a login procedure without having to post
your ip (and hence, your open netjack port) for all the world to see.
yes. this is my intent.
now with the possibility to detect own IP i can decide between irc or
jabber. i dont even need to modify jabberd.
And irc would still require cloaks to hide ips. so i guess i will go
with jabber.
jabber already has buddy list etc implemented, and i dont need to think
about this.
Paul seems to also like the idea. the problem might only be, that
dreamhost prohibits irc like services. But this is just a presence
service.
(btw, torben, great to hear from you again! do get in touch if you ever
need a crashpad in essen.)
sure. but no trips planned.
--
torben Hohn
11:21 a.m.
torbenh(a)gmx.de wrote:
hmm. i haven't looked into it, but my gut feeling is that upnp merely
adds a network transparency layer to each known exploit in the world...
but i may have grown old and grumpy, so ignore me.
i know :) what i meant is: people who want to use netjack are advanced
users who run their own linux studio. for them, setting up a port
forward is no dark magic. so we don't have to compete with skype in
terms of one-click-installability. in all other aspects, we are of
course going to have them for breakfast :)
i'd rather have this additional barrier of manual setup than to have to
activate upnp in my studio network. additionally, i might also want to
get additional firewall rules in place to permit only specific source
ips (which should be trivial to automate if the connection information
is available via jabber).
do you think that a properly setup jabberd that requires registration
would fall under this exclusion rule?
i'm running a torrent mirror at a hoster that explicitly forbids file
sharing, but when i explained to them the nature and licensing of the
material provided (it's not warez or moviez) and gave them figures of
bandwidth usage, they gave me the thumbs up.
--
jörn nettingsmeier
home://germany/45128 essen/lortzingstr. 11/
http://spunk.dnsalias.org
phone://+49/201/491621
On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 02:06:30PM +0100, Joern
Nettingsmeier wrote:
wow. now that is totally amazing technology. i wonder who rewrites the
html each time a new user connects? probably outsourced to india...
>> if you have a solution for this, irc
would become my choice i guess ;D
hmmm... i have a solution now: http://checkip.dyndns.org/ the way i see
it, if you want to netjack between two natted hosts,
there's no easy way around port forwardings on both ends. which is fine
i dont want to get around port forwarding.
there is still the possibility to use UPNP to open the
port. anybody knows a library or code fragment for this ?
it would at least provide for randomized port numbers.
(If your router supports it... mine does, but i deactivated it ;S imho, since we
are not competing with skype here, are we?
hmmm... i guess skype is not competing with us ;)
we are providing N channel support, midi transport,
low-latency lan operation. A musical codec...
transport synchronisation. hehe :)
i need to research the possibility for cloud DSPing :D
ie rent your lexicon to other studios... lol.
or record to 16 track 2 inch at some remote location that still has the
tape wizards to maintain one :-D
(and yes, the telcoms could be at yet another facility - but i'm getting
carried away...)
for the simple
case (both end points have real ip addresses), some
simple directory script (such as the icecast streamer list) might
suffice, but the cool thing about the jabber idea is you can ssl it and
maybe also use it to agree on a login procedure without having to post
your ip (and hence, your open netjack port) for all the world to see.
yes. this is my intent.
now with the possibility to detect own IP i can decide between irc or
jabber. i dont even need to modify jabberd.
And irc would still require cloaks to hide ips. so i guess i will go
with jabber.
jabber already has buddy list etc implemented, and i dont need to think
about this.
Paul seems to also like the idea. the problem might only be, that
dreamhost prohibits irc like services. But this is just a presence
service. 
12:13 p.m.
hi,
torbenh(a)gmx.de schrieb:
On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 02:06:30PM +0100, Joern
Nettingsmeier wrote:
yep.... i dont want a reflector at all.
I'll have to send you to #telepathy again. They have a code-snippet that
uses gupnp to do that.
Stefan
>> if you have a solution for this, irc
would become my choice i guess ;D
>>
hmmm... i have a solution now: http://checkip.dyndns.org/
Hmm...
not really.
Although.. sk wrote a http-tunnel for a project of ours once in ruby, to
tunnel osc messages to the outside world, so I could control a remote
scsynth, regardless of firewalls, that may be in between.
But it required a server running a host script, which connected the tunnels.
It's a bit convoluted, and may send audio streams around with some detour,
depending where the server is, and where the participants are.
But I'm sure linuxaudio.org would be eager to give some bandwidth ;)
Maybe our LAC streamteam has some brilliant idea how to do this...
this part of the lac streamteam must confess it doesn't have the
faintest... which may partly be attributed to sushi deprival syndrome.
even though i hosted stefan's nat-piercing script for one of marije's
projects, i never bothered to find out how it works... i guess it's a
reflector that actually bounces the data back and forth.
i'm very sure that's not what you want for a netjack connection if you
care for latency. plus you would burn huge amounts of bandwidth for
basically nothing.
the way i see it, if you want to netjack between
two natted hosts,
there's no easy way around port forwardings on both ends. which is fine
i dont want to get around port forwarding.
there is still the possibility to use UPNP to open the
port. anybody knows a library or code fragment for this ?
it would at least provide for randomized port numbers.
(If your router supports it... mine does, but i deactivated it ;S
imho, since we
are not competing with skype here, are we?
hmmm... i guess skype is not competing with us ;)
we are providing N channel support, midi transport,
low-latency lan operation. A musical codec...
transport synchronisation.
hehe :)
i need to research the possibility for cloud DSPing :D
ie rent your lexicon to other studios... lol.
for the simple case (both end points have real ip
addresses), some
simple directory script (such as the icecast streamer list) might
suffice, but the cool thing about the jabber idea is you can ssl it and
maybe also use it to agree on a login procedure without having to post
your ip (and hence, your open netjack port) for all the world to see.
yes. this is my intent.
now with the possibility to detect own IP i can decide between irc or
jabber. i dont even need to modify jabberd.
And irc would still require cloaks to hide ips. so i guess i will go
with jabber.
jabber already has buddy list etc implemented, and i dont need to think
about this.
Paul seems to also like the idea. the problem might only be, that
dreamhost prohibits irc like services. But this is just a presence
service.
(btw, torben, great to hear from you again! do
get in touch if you ever
need a crashpad in essen.)
sure. but no trips planned.
30 Nov
30 Nov
4:01 p.m.
torbenh(a)gmx.de schrieb:
hi...
now that the backend is mostly done, i am thinking about
a GUI for netjack.
i already found gtknetsource.py on my HD, i started mucking
with that some months ago.
i plan to extend that thingy now.
but setting up the connection, and getting IP addresses
of users is still a PITA.
i am thinking along the lines of an IM like thing,
based on jabber.
i am not seeing good options to making this available
in the various IM clients.
thats why i would rather like to have modified jabberd running
on jackaudio.org or at the consortium servers.
it would not support chatting or stuff.
only show who is online. and if a session is running.
it would only make the IP of a user available when he agrees,
to open session... blabla... security.
so basically you click on your buddy, to open a session.
buddy agrees.
IP of buddy is transmitted. tool measures connection.
provides you with some options.
ie compression ratio, number of channels, latency, who is master ?
and starts the netjack session.
telepathy and tubes? jokosher imho has/had a prototype in python for some
collborative editing.
Stefan
thoughts ?
1 Dec
1 Dec
12:19 a.m.
On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 10:01:23PM +0200, Stefan Kost wrote:
torbenh(a)gmx.de schrieb:
gabble has no implementation of UDP tubes yet.
haze does not even have any tube support yet.
i will reconsider, when we are there.
its also not clear to me, how i should add my connection type into
the telepathy system without writing my own connection manager.
and i dont think clients would autodetect the new connection type
anyways.
I would be happy if you prove me wrong, because just writing a
dbus component wrapping some popen calls, would be the easiest
way of doing things.
with irclib, or some jabber equivalent i guess this stuff would
be around 200-300 lines of python code added to the current
gtknetsource.py
re tubes:
i am (just a little bit) concerned how much additional jitter,
a non SCHED_FIFO reflector would add to the mix on a higly loaded system.
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
hi...
now that the backend is mostly done, i am thinking about
a GUI for netjack.
i already found gtknetsource.py on my HD, i started mucking
with that some months ago.
i plan to extend that thingy now.
but setting up the connection, and getting IP addresses
of users is still a PITA.
i am thinking along the lines of an IM like thing,
based on jabber.
i am not seeing good options to making this available
in the various IM clients.
thats why i would rather like to have modified jabberd running
on jackaudio.org or at the consortium servers.
it would not support chatting or stuff.
only show who is online. and if a session is running.
it would only make the IP of a user available when he agrees,
to open session... blabla... security.
so basically you click on your buddy, to open a session.
buddy agrees.
IP of buddy is transmitted. tool measures connection.
provides you with some options.
ie compression ratio, number of channels, latency, who is master ?
and starts the netjack session.
telepathy and tubes? jokosher imho has/had a prototype in python for some
collborative editing. 
30 Nov
30 Nov
6:43 p.m.
torbenh(a)gmx.de wrote:
hi...
now that the backend is mostly done, i am thinking about
a GUI for netjack.
i already found gtknetsource.py on my HD, i started mucking
with that some months ago.
i plan to extend that thingy now.
but setting up the connection, and getting IP addresses
of users is still a PITA.
i am thinking along the lines of an IM like thing,
based on jabber.
i am not seeing good options to making this available
in the various IM clients.
thats why i would rather like to have modified jabberd running
on jackaudio.org or at the consortium servers.
it would not support chatting or stuff.
only show who is online. and if a session is running.
it would only make the IP of a user available when he agrees,
to open session... blabla... security.
so basically you click on your buddy, to open a session.
buddy agrees.
IP of buddy is transmitted. tool measures connection.
provides you with some options.
ie compression ratio, number of channels, latency, who is master ?
and starts the netjack session.
thoughts ?
This sounds like things that me and Robert J fantasized about a year
ago, or probably more. We did some experiments playing 1 guitar and 1
vocal channel each, being in our respective houses (1-2 km:s away from
each other, <2ms ping) into a bad midi background version of AC/DC:s
TNT, which came from the jack master, where MusE was used to do all the
routing. It worked ok with respect to latency, however alsa-in and
alsa-out (mainly alsa-in) was pretty unstable and crashed quite a lot.
It appeared that it worked quite ok when being on the same wired LAN but
when using my WLAN these things showed up again. It appeared as if it
should be ok for us to run a session w 4 ppl realtime, but the alsa-in
crashes made it difficult to run long enough to verify that it was
actually possible since there was always someone that didn't have it up
and running.
I made a not successful attempt on trying to change alsa-in to not try
to stretch when a timeout occured, I got the feeling that there was some
kind of attempt of trying to adapt the buffer/reading to the timeouts
and that this might have been the cause of the crashes. Has anyone else
tried anything similar - perhaps there has been improvements in these
areas, I'm far from updated. The pitch-shifting stretch made our guitars
sound quite a bit strange at times as well...
So.. this sounds really cool. Via the jack homepage you could find
someone to play with, start a band, record an album, have a live gig and
split the band - all during a time period of one night. But only with
ppl living in a very short ping-time from yourself.
Anyway, one thing I can think of is that it would be nice to be able to
specify a script that is run when a client connects (if you're master -
then your favourite seq app could be told to add another input and
connect all the other ppl:s outputs to it - so you get to hear what the
other ones are playing but not have your own input echoed back) or when
you connect to a master.
Give me/us a yell if you have something that is testable.
BR,
Mathias
1 Dec
1 Dec
6:14 p.m.
New subject: [Jack-Devel] IM like GUI for netjack
torbenh(a)gmx.de writes:
i am thinking along the lines of an IM like thing,
based on jabber.
Why not just implement this with SIP?.
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
sip:b0ef@ e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
2 Dec
2 Dec
5:36 a.m.
torbenh(a)gmx.de wrote:
hi...
but setting up the connection, and getting IP addresses
of users is still a PITA.
i am thinking along the lines of an IM like thing,
based on jabber.
i am not seeing good options to making this available
in the various IM clients.
thats why i would rather like to have modified jabberd running
on jackaudio.org or at the consortium servers.
and starts the netjack session.
thoughts ?
Jabber would be a fine choice. You could use the xmpppy library and
write a small client which runs on your system and talks to other
clients with a predefined ascii or xml
protocol. No need to hack the server, imho. The data can be wrapped in
the jabber messages. I could give a helping hand here if someone wants
to implement this app since i wrote some bots and a xmpppy tutorial 2
years ago.
-Sebastian
6:18 p.m.
On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 10:36:18AM +0100, Sebastian Moors wrote:
torbenh(a)gmx.de wrote:
ok... would be apreciated. I am gonna implement this.
but i am currently trying to fix netjack for the case,
where packet loss is around 50% ie. link bandwidth is not
enough.
in fact i was thinking about using xmpppy.
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
hi...
but setting up the connection, and getting IP addresses
of users is still a PITA.
i am thinking along the lines of an IM like thing,
based on jabber.
i am not seeing good options to making this available
in the various IM clients.
thats why i would rather like to have modified jabberd running
on jackaudio.org or at the consortium servers.
and starts the netjack session.
thoughts ?
Jabber would be a fine choice. You could use the xmpppy library and
write a small client which runs on your system and talks to other
clients with a predefined ascii or xml
protocol. No need to hack the server, imho. The data can be wrapped in
the jabber messages. I could give a helping hand here if someone wants
to implement this app since i wrote some bots and a xmpppy tutorial 2
years ago. 
3 Dec
3 Dec
2:01 a.m.
If I may suggest, why go to all of this trouble?
Just make a client that registers with a webpage, ala ninjam. (For those of
you not hip to ninjam, it is a collaborative jam-session program and each
instance can "phone home" to show the user's presence on a webpage).
In the case of local networks, advertise with avahi / mdns and be done. No
need to attach to an IM service or XMPP.
On Tue, Dec 2, 2008 at 3:13 PM, <torbenh(a)gmx.de> wrote:
On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 10:36:18AM +0100, Sebastian
Moors wrote:
torbenh(a)gmx.de wrote:
ok... would be apreciated. I am gonna implement this.
but i am currently trying to fix netjack for the case,
where packet loss is around 50% ie. link bandwidth is not
enough.
in fact i was thinking about using xmpppy.
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
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hi...
but setting up the connection, and getting IP addresses
of users is still a PITA.
i am thinking along the lines of an IM like thing,
based on jabber.
i am not seeing good options to making this available
in the various IM clients.
thats why i would rather like to have modified jabberd running
on jackaudio.org or at the consortium servers.
and starts the netjack session.
thoughts ?
Jabber would be a fine choice. You could use the xmpppy library and
write a small client which runs on your system and talks to other
clients with a predefined ascii or xml
protocol. No need to hack the server, imho. The data can be wrapped in
the jabber messages. I could give a helping hand here if someone wants
to implement this app since i wrote some bots and a xmpppy tutorial 2
years ago.
3:43 a.m.
On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 11:01:29PM -0700, Eric Shattow wrote:
If I may suggest, why go to all of this trouble?
Just make a client that registers with a webpage, ala ninjam. (For those of
you not hip to ninjam, it is a collaborative jam-session program and each
instance can "phone home" to show the user's presence on a webpage).
i only know the linux ninjam client.
added jack support to it :)
well... i find it MUCH more work to create a website and stuff,
then just using xmpppy.
With the website i would also expose users IP to ANYONE.
i am not very comfortable with this.
i would like to ask the user before handing out his IP to someone.
In the case of local networks, advertise with avahi / mdns and be done. No
need to attach to an IM service or XMPP.
avahi is planned.
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
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17 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Eric Shattow -
Esben Stien -
Joern Nettingsmeier -
Mathias Gyllengahm -
nescivi -
Sebastian Moors -
Stefan Kost -
torbenh＠gmx.de