5 Apr
2015
5 Apr
'15
11:09 a.m.
On Sat, Apr 04, 2015 at 02:24:57PM -0700, Len Ovens wrote:
Fader mapping in general has been tied to the
phyisical fader and
it's length. 4in/100mm seems to be the max real estate people want
to use. Ok so far. The mapping is set up to use that 4in in the best
way possible, but seems to be the same no matter what the use. There
are three main uses I can see:
Broadcast - Fades to oo(off) happen often
Live Mix - Fades might happen once in a performance (maybe 2 or 3)
recording - Fades are more often done with some kind of automation
maybe never on a physical fader... or maybe only
on bus faders.
For the latter practice will vary, depending on the user and the type
of material. Speaking just for myself, I never use automation in Ardour.
When necessary, levels are edited using the region gain - this keeps
the faders free for manual adjustment. IMHO, automation with anything
but a real physical and motorised fader is a kludge.
Assuming a recording/mixdown situation, would it make
sense on a
limitless fader to continue at the same db drop per movement from
+6(or 10 or whatever) to -110?
I'd say no. If you need static fader gains below -40 dB or so that
probably means something else is wrong.
My reasoning is this:
By recording, I mean DAW and so 32bit float derived from 24bitADC.
Tracks are therefor recorded with more headroom and less compression
as these can be dealt with later. DAWs do not seem to think in terms
of a channel strip trim at input so that each track can put the
fader in it's most acurate possition (right around 0db) and
something loud that is really background may end up with it's fader
position quite low. This would mean minor adjustment to that track
would be difficult.
This is why I'm really missing an input gain trim in Ardour. Even more
so because the faders go up to only +6dB, this should be at least +10
or even +15 dB.
On analog mixers the input gain trim is required in order to have a
controlled level in the pre-fader chain which may include all sorts
of inserts and/or sends. This is still so in a DAW using floating
point signals.
Would it make sense to be able to move the range
of a fader (physical or other wise) so that it goes from -10 to oo
rather than from +10 to oo? Think put one finger on a modifier key
and then move the fader from where the signal is to where on the
fader strip you want it then release modifier key. SO if the fader
is at -20 and this was done, -20 would now be at the 0db possition.
IMHO that could be very confusing. It sort invites you to control
gain only at that single point. You could easily end up with an
absurd gain structure, and without any visual indication of that
situation.
Or if using a mouse wheel, the same amount of wheel
clicks would
move the same db at any place on the fader... or a new type of fader
might make this possible too.
That would certainly be possible. There is no reason at all why fader
resolution should be limited by screen pixels.
The thing is, a fader is no longer an audio pad that
can be
adjusted, it is a data input device and as such it just has a linear
position output. There is no reason that data and it's meaning can't
change on the fly as needed. For most mixing (even live) the fader
input is either "I need more of that" or "I need less of that".
Yes, but their general position also tell you if your gain structure
is more or less right. If you have a fader at -40 dB that very probably
means that something else needs adjustment.
such a case, the sound the engineer hears is what they
go by, not
the fader position. If the fader position has to be looked at to
change it takes the engineer's mind away from the mix momentarily
rather than if the operation position is always the same. I am
thinking what would work for a blind person, and wouldn't that be
better even for someone with sight?
If you use 'real' faders you don't have to look at them. And not
having them all at 0dB actually helps to find the one you need
quickly - you know the 'skyline', even if only subconsciously.
Another solution might be to use a modifier key to
make the fader
set a channel trim.
That would make sense, faders can already be remapped to aux sends
etc. on many mixers.
Ciao,
--
FA
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It's also a pipe-dream, founded on self-delusion, nerd hubris
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