9 Feb
2010
9 Feb
'10
4:26 p.m.
http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/36698-from-windows-to…
From Windows to Linux: a sound decision
Some excerpts:
Five years ago, when Geoff Beasley decided to move his sound studio
business from a Windows-based one to a Linux-based setup, he had one
simple bit of logic driving him: things could not be worse under
Linux.
...
"There's a great difference between working with commercial software
and Linux," says Beasley. "One is the speed at which things get fixed
- it is simply amazing. Another thing is that though I am always
running software which is in a constant state of development, it is
incredibly stable. It is not possible to get fixes at this speed from
commercial vendors - the guys I work with are driven by the sheer
elegance of their software and its flexibility. And I am constantly
amazed at what I can do with my limited knowledge."
...
Beasley's set-up:
SYSTEM SOFTWARE
All 5 of the production machines have the following subsystem:
Arch Linux system custom 2.6.31,6-rt19 kernel with RT preemption
(essential for Xrun avoidance - click and pops) Desktop consisting of
openbox, Adeskbar and pypanel. Display manager is Slim
AUDIO
jack2-svn (contains netone; which is netjack1 within jack2)
Qjackctl-svn
Rtirq (RT pci priorities for sound cards; also essential for Xrun avoidance)
LinAS
LinAS is the audio master machine. It hosts 4 Hoontech C-Ports
(ice1712-based chipset) in an Alsa multi-array providing 40 channels
of audio to the other machines via 'netone'. jack is running with 2
periods @ 48kH and 64 frames giving a 'round-trip' latency (in and
out) of 2.66 ms . Can be run @ 32 frames (half the latency) but the
samplers struggle at this low a frame rate.
Uses Gjacktransport to control the jack transport here and therefore
the netone slaves via jack transport.
LinDAW
The Digital Audio Workstation hosts 'Ardour' as the main DAW software
and also Mhwaveedit and Audacity for audio editing, Qjadeo for
synchronous video playback with Ardour, K3b & GDC Master for CD
mastering.
LinSeq
The midi sequencer machine. Runs MusE 1.01-svn and Linuxsampler with
the Fantasia (java) frontend. Magic. Mscore is the Linux music scoring
program, started by the creator of MusE, Werner Schweer.
LinSampler
Uses the program fst (free software studio) by Torben Hohn to run
vsti's (virtual studio technology instruments) under wine. The two I
run are Kontakt 2 and Sampletank 2. Both work 100 percent maybe better
than under Wine.
LinVS
This is the 'Video Server" This one specialises in distributing video
throughout the complex via webcams using 'Cheese' to mount them.
Kdenlive and capture cards are used to take interviews of Composers
and Performers for web-based content enhancement. Qjadeo is used to
playback vision also piped throughout.
LinFX
Essentially hosts the Jc_Gui front end for Fons Adriaensen's
Jconvolver. Using open source Impulse Responses. Gives reverbs to the
mixing desk.
--
A. C. Censi
accensi [em] gmail [ponto] com
accensi [em] montreal [ponto] com [ponto] br
9 Feb
9 Feb
4:43 p.m.
Thanks for the link. It is great to see a Linux creative system work
well for a larger studio(larger being relative to my desk in a corner).
I want to go play in it. :)
On 2/9/10 2:26 PM, A. C. Censi wrote:
http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/36698-from-windows-to…
From Windows to Linux: a sound decision
Some excerpts:
Five years ago, when Geoff Beasley decided to move his sound studio
business from a Windows-based one to a Linux-based setup, he had one
simple bit of logic driving him: things could not be worse under
Linux.
...
"There's a great difference between working with commercial software
and Linux," says Beasley. "One is the speed at which things get fixed
- it is simply amazing. Another thing is that though I am always
running software which is in a constant state of development, it is
incredibly stable. It is not possible to get fixes at this speed from
commercial vendors - the guys I work with are driven by the sheer
elegance of their software and its flexibility. And I am constantly
amazed at what I can do with my limited knowledge."
...
Beasley's set-up:
SYSTEM SOFTWARE
All 5 of the production machines have the following subsystem:
Arch Linux system custom 2.6.31,6-rt19 kernel with RT preemption
(essential for Xrun avoidance - click and pops) Desktop consisting of
openbox, Adeskbar and pypanel. Display manager is Slim
AUDIO
jack2-svn (contains netone; which is netjack1 within jack2)
Qjackctl-svn
Rtirq (RT pci priorities for sound cards; also essential for Xrun avoidance)
LinAS
LinAS is the audio master machine. It hosts 4 Hoontech C-Ports
(ice1712-based chipset) in an Alsa multi-array providing 40 channels
of audio to the other machines via 'netone'. jack is running with 2
periods @ 48kH and 64 frames giving a 'round-trip' latency (in and
out) of 2.66 ms . Can be run @ 32 frames (half the latency) but the
samplers struggle at this low a frame rate.
Uses Gjacktransport to control the jack transport here and therefore
the netone slaves via jack transport.
LinDAW
The Digital Audio Workstation hosts 'Ardour' as the main DAW software
and also Mhwaveedit and Audacity for audio editing, Qjadeo for
synchronous video playback with Ardour, K3b& GDC Master for CD
mastering.
LinSeq
The midi sequencer machine. Runs MusE 1.01-svn and Linuxsampler with
the Fantasia (java) frontend. Magic. Mscore is the Linux music scoring
program, started by the creator of MusE, Werner Schweer.
LinSampler
Uses the program fst (free software studio) by Torben Hohn to run
vsti's (virtual studio technology instruments) under wine. The two I
run are Kontakt 2 and Sampletank 2. Both work 100 percent maybe better
than under Wine.
LinVS
This is the 'Video Server" This one specialises in distributing video
throughout the complex via webcams using 'Cheese' to mount them.
Kdenlive and capture cards are used to take interviews of Composers
and Performers for web-based content enhancement. Qjadeo is used to
playback vision also piped throughout.
LinFX
Essentially hosts the Jc_Gui front end for Fons Adriaensen's
Jconvolver. Using open source Impulse Responses. Gives reverbs to the
mixing desk.
4:51 p.m.
Excerpts from A. C. Censi's message of 2010-02-09 21:26:36 +0100:
http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/36698-from-windows-to…
From Windows to Linux: a sound decision
Some excerpts:
Five years ago, when Geoff Beasley decided to move his sound studio
business from a Windows-based one to a Linux-based setup, he had one
simple bit of logic driving him: things could not be worse under
Linux.
...
"There's a great difference between working with commercial software
and Linux," says Beasley. "One is the speed at which things get fixed
- it is simply amazing. Another thing is that though I am always
running software which is in a constant state of development, it is
incredibly stable. It is not possible to get fixes at this speed from
commercial vendors - the guys I work with are driven by the sheer
elegance of their software and its flexibility. And I am constantly
amazed at what I can do with my limited knowledge."
...
Beasley's set-up:
SYSTEM SOFTWARE
All 5 of the production machines have the following subsystem:
Arch Linux system custom 2.6.31,6-rt19 kernel with RT preemption
(essential for Xrun avoidance - click and pops) Desktop consisting of
openbox, Adeskbar and pypanel. Display manager is Slim
AUDIO
jack2-svn (contains netone; which is netjack1 within jack2)
Qjackctl-svn
Rtirq (RT pci priorities for sound cards; also essential for Xrun avoidance)
LinAS
LinAS is the audio master machine. It hosts 4 Hoontech C-Ports
(ice1712-based chipset) in an Alsa multi-array providing 40 channels
of audio to the other machines via 'netone'. jack is running with 2
periods @ 48kH and 64 frames giving a 'round-trip' latency (in and
out) of 2.66 ms . Can be run @ 32 frames (half the latency) but the
samplers struggle at this low a frame rate.
Uses Gjacktransport to control the jack transport here and therefore
the netone slaves via jack transport.
LinDAW
The Digital Audio Workstation hosts 'Ardour' as the main DAW software
and also Mhwaveedit and Audacity for audio editing, Qjadeo for
synchronous video playback with Ardour, K3b & GDC Master for CD
mastering.
LinSeq
The midi sequencer machine. Runs MusE 1.01-svn and Linuxsampler with
the Fantasia (java) frontend. Magic. Mscore is the Linux music scoring
program, started by the creator of MusE, Werner Schweer.
LinSampler
Uses the program fst (free software studio) by Torben Hohn to run
vsti's (virtual studio technology instruments) under wine. The two I
run are Kontakt 2 and Sampletank 2. Both work 100 percent maybe better
than under Wine.
LinVS
This is the 'Video Server" This one specialises in distributing video
throughout the complex via webcams using 'Cheese' to mount them.
Kdenlive and capture cards are used to take interviews of Composers
and Performers for web-based content enhancement. Qjadeo is used to
playback vision also piped throughout.
LinFX
Essentially hosts the Jc_Gui front end for Fons Adriaensen's
Jconvolver. Using open source Impulse Responses. Gives reverbs to the
mixing desk.
Very interesting, thanks.
It's good to see an article about an actual studio using Linux.
Regards,
Philipp
5:08 p.m.
Excerpts from fons's message of 2010-02-09 21:52:11 +0100:
On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 06:26:36PM -0200, A. C. Censi
wrote:
Show me your 2.6.32 rt kernel ;)
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/
But yeah, 2.6.31.12-rt20 is out since a while. There won't be a 2.6.32-rt, next stop
is .33
Regard,
Philipp
Arch Linux system custom 2.6.31,6-rt19 kernel
with RT preemption
By Archlinux standards you're way behind !
Update ! Update ! I have 2.6.32 ! :-) :-)
Ciao, 
7:54 p.m.
On 10 February 2010 05:08, hollunder <hollunder(a)lavabit.com> wrote:
Excerpts from fons's message of 2010-02-09
21:52:11 +0100:
Ahh cmon..these guys do real work, and make the base work for them!
Another guy that comes to mind is Songshop. And most of us with an
Arch system have an old trusty RT kernel, because unlike the rest, we
actually need to do stuff (like production, rather than development).
The distro is really just secondary.
--
GPG/PGP ID: B42DDCAD
On Tue, Feb 09, 2010 at 06:26:36PM -0200, A. C.
Censi wrote:
Show me your 2.6.32 rt kernel ;)
http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/projects/rt/
But yeah, 2.6.31.12-rt20 is out since a while. There won't be a 2.6.32-rt, next stop
is .33 Arch Linux system custom 2.6.31,6-rt19 kernel
with RT preemption
By Archlinux standards you're way behind !
Update ! Update ! I have 2.6.32 ! :-) :-)
Ciao, 
10 Feb
10 Feb
1:24 a.m.
A. C. Censi wrote:
http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/36698-from-windows-to…
Most impressive. The studio is only 5 kms from my place so I may have to
investigate further.
Roger
From Windows to Linux: a sound decision
Some excerpts:
Five years ago, when Geoff Beasley decided to move his sound studio
business from a Windows-based one to a Linux-based setup, he had one
simple bit of logic driving him: things could not be worse under
Linux.
... 
16 Mar
16 Mar
10:23 p.m.
From: A. C. Censi <accensi(a)gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 2:26:36 PM
http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/36698-from-windows-to…
From Windows to Linux: a sound decision
Beasley's set-up:
Arch Linux system custom 2.6.31,6-rt19 kernel with RT preemption
============================
Thanks for posting this article. It's allowed me to start using Jack and Rosegarden
again.
Last November 20th or so (it's why I went totally silent, Oleg), an update came down
from Fedora 11 (I was also using Planet CCRMA repositories for audio). I only use the
stable repositories and I consequently trust all updates that come down from either Fedora
or Planet CCRMA.
That trust appears to have been misplaced.
For no readily apparent reason, I couldn't start Jack anymore. Time was extremely
short for me. I tried the suggested fixes in the Jack error log output, but it didn't
solve the problem. I next tried Fedore 12 and must have gotten the same update, since
Jack wouldn't start with the same error messages as I got under Fedora 11. I've
gone from then until Sunday, March 14th, without Jack, Ardour, and Rosegarden.
On Sunday I installed Arch Linux. No problems, except for searching the Wiki Forum to
find out the port number needed to get my network printer server recognized so I could
print under Arch Linux. I got that fixed yesterday.
I'm now running:
without PulseAudio (oh what joy!)
ALSA version 1.0.22, release 1 (if I've read that correctly from the PKGBUILD script)
Jack version 0.116.2, release 1
qJackCtl version 0.3.6, release 1
Ardour version 2.8.7, release 1
Rosegarden version 10.02, release 1
Audacity version 1.3.11beta, release 1
The other thing I like about Arch Linux is that it doesn't automatically check for
updates, and it doesn't try to push updates on you. Now that I have a system running
the way I want, I can leave this system as is for the next 10 years if I wish and there
won't be any broken programs due to buggy updates. Oh what joy, again!
For What It's Worth,
Stephen.
11:32 p.m.
Excerpts from Stephen Stubbs's message of 2010-03-17 02:23:56 +0100:
From: A. C. Censi <accensi(a)gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 2:26:36 PM
http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/36698-from-windows-to…
From Windows to Linux: a sound decision
Beasley's set-up:
Arch Linux system custom 2.6.31,6-rt19 kernel with RT preemption
============================
Thanks for posting this article. It's allowed me to start using Jack and Rosegarden
again.
Last November 20th or so (it's why I went totally silent, Oleg), an update came down
from Fedora 11 (I was also using Planet CCRMA repositories for audio). I only use the
stable repositories and I consequently trust all updates that come down from either Fedora
or Planet CCRMA.
That trust appears to have been misplaced.
For no readily apparent reason, I couldn't start Jack anymore. Time was extremely
short for me. I tried the suggested fixes in the Jack error log output, but it didn't
solve the problem. I next tried Fedore 12 and must have gotten the same update, since
Jack wouldn't start with the same error messages as I got under Fedora 11. I've
gone from then until Sunday, March 14th, without Jack, Ardour, and Rosegarden.
On Sunday I installed Arch Linux. No problems, except for searching the Wiki Forum to
find out the port number needed to get my network printer server recognized so I could
print under Arch Linux. I got that fixed yesterday.
I'm now running:
without PulseAudio (oh what joy!)
ALSA version 1.0.22, release 1 (if I've read that correctly from the PKGBUILD
script)
Jack version 0.116.2, release 1
qJackCtl version 0.3.6, release 1
Ardour version 2.8.7, release 1
Rosegarden version 10.02, release 1
Audacity version 1.3.11beta, release 1
The other thing I like about Arch Linux is that it doesn't automatically check for
updates, and it doesn't try to push updates on you. Now that I have a system running
the way I want, I can leave this system as is for the next 10 years if I wish and there
won't be any broken programs due to buggy updates. Oh what joy, again!
For What It's Worth,
Stephen.
I'm very glad Arch Linux works well for you, but I do have a word of
warning: If you plan to update Arch Linux in ten years you're likely to
run into lots of issues ;)
It really is designed for quite frequent updates, but if you're
selective and know what you're doing you should be fine for a while.
The point is that you're in control, you have to decide. Most of the
time the decisions are easy, but if you stick with a version of a
certain program and you need to re-compile the app because one of the
underlying libs had a so-name bump, then you could run into issues.
It's all about what you choose to do. And with passing time the required
effort might grow.
That all may sound a bit negative but I'm a very happy Arch user as well
and I'm very glad that it works out for you.
Regards,
Philipp
17 Mar
17 Mar
4:32 a.m.
On 17 March 2010 10:31, Philipp <hollunder(a)lavabit.com> wrote:
Excerpts from Stephen Stubbs's message of
2010-03-17 02:23:56 +0100:
Oo 10 years..yeah that could work. I'm not a frequent update either,
but anyway a little guesstheomatical fun:
Let's just assume that over the last 30 days, there were 200MB of
updates per client. Not a very big number, and not very small either,
and so should allow for a healthy average. That works up to 2,400MB
per annum, but assume that it is likely that a significant number of
clients would not have updated for a total of 60 days due to
schoolwork, officework, socialwork etc., so the end-of-year assumption
implies an even 2,000MB. A 10-year total would then be 20,000MB, or,
20GB.
Let's also assume that over the last 10 years global internet
bandwidth, including developing/third-world nations and their
respective socio-economical pricing plans, rose from a mere 56Kbps to
1024Kbps on the lowest end and 1024Kbps to 12228Kbps on the highest.
Here, we can say that in the following decade we can see 1024-12228
and 12228-102400, or developingNations(1Mbps,12Mbps) and
developedNations(12Mbps,100Mbps). Flawed, but probable in a layman's
opinion if we take into consideration regions continue to develop at
the same rate they have been for the past decade.
So downloading 20GB of updates after 10 years would mean it would take
1715 seconds (20971520/12228) or approx. 30 minutes on one end and 5
minutes on the other, rounded off to the nearest 5th. We must also
take into consideration that there may have ben worthy news updates to
follow to avoid system breakage, so this assumption can be 6 major
articles a year, meaning one would have to read through 60 articles
after 10 years.
## Conclusion ##
Assuming the average schooling and working Archer reads 10 articles a
day, it would take approx. 7 days or a week (inclusive of the
less-than-half-hour pacman -Syyu) to overcome this updating feat.
The size of updates may have been bigger at 200GB, and the amount of
articles may have been 100 (although http://www.archlinux.org/news/
will provide a more informed average for 8 years).
That, is the conlcusion of a best-case scenario. I didn't have
anything better to do, I have the flu since this morning.
--
GPG/PGP ID: B42DDCAD
From: A. C. Censi <accensi(a)gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, February 9, 2010 2:26:36 PM
http://www.itwire.com/opinion-and-analysis/open-sauce/36698-from-windows-to…
From Windows to Linux: a sound decision
Beasley's set-up:
Arch Linux system custom 2.6.31,6-rt19 kernel with RT preemption
============================
Thanks for posting this article. It's allowed me to start using Jack and Rosegarden
again.
Last November 20th or so (it's why I went totally silent, Oleg), an update came down
from Fedora 11 (I was also using Planet CCRMA repositories for audio). I only use the
stable repositories and I consequently trust all updates that come down from either Fedora
or Planet CCRMA.
That trust appears to have been misplaced.
For no readily apparent reason, I couldn't start Jack anymore. Time was extremely
short for me. I tried the suggested fixes in the Jack error log output, but it didn't
solve the problem. I next tried Fedore 12 and must have gotten the same update, since
Jack wouldn't start with the same error messages as I got under Fedora 11. I've
gone from then until Sunday, March 14th, without Jack, Ardour, and Rosegarden.
On Sunday I installed Arch Linux. No problems, except for searching the Wiki Forum to
find out the port number needed to get my network printer server recognized so I could
print under Arch Linux. I got that fixed yesterday.
I'm now running:
without PulseAudio (oh what joy!)
ALSA version 1.0.22, release 1 (if I've read that correctly from the PKGBUILD
script)
Jack version 0.116.2, release 1
qJackCtl version 0.3.6, release 1
Ardour version 2.8.7, release 1
Rosegarden version 10.02, release 1
Audacity version 1.3.11beta, release 1
The other thing I like about Arch Linux is that it doesn't automatically check for
updates, and it doesn't try to push updates on you. Now that I have a system running
the way I want, I can leave this system as is for the next 10 years if I wish and there
won't be any broken programs due to buggy updates. Oh what joy, again!
For What It's Worth,
Stephen.
I'm very glad Arch Linux works well for you, but I do have a word of
warning: If you plan to update Arch Linux in ten years you're likely to
run into lots of issues ;)
It really is designed for quite frequent updates, but if you're
selective and know what you're doing you should be fine for a while.
The point is that you're in control, you have to decide. Most of the
time the decisions are easy, but if you stick with a version of a
certain program and you need to re-compile the app because one of the
underlying libs had a so-name bump, then you could run into issues.
It's all about what you choose to do. And with passing time the required
effort might grow.
That all may sound a bit negative but I'm a very happy Arch user as well
and I'm very glad that it works out for you. 
4:58 a.m.
Hi,
On Wednesday 17 March 2010 08:32:15 Ray Rashif wrote:
Oo 10 years..yeah that could work. I'm not a
frequent update either,
but anyway a little guesstheomatical fun:
<snip>
## Conclusion ##
Assuming the average schooling and working Archer reads 10 articles a
day, it would take approx. 7 days or a week (inclusive of the
less-than-half-hour pacman -Syyu) to overcome this updating feat.
Having worked with gentoo and therefore knowing the update-processes in such a
setup, I can tell you that your calculation is senseless. Its not wrong in the
mathematical sense, although you can't really add up update-sizes because
after some months you will realize that not every in-between version of an app
to go from the initially installed one to the final one will have to be
downloaded and installed.
But its wrong because the time and trouble for updates aren't the download
times but the times when you configure and reconfigure services. And when you
try to manage to get your current distribution-tool to work with the
repository present in ten years. And the time to learn about which apps and
libs have been deprecated and discontinued and which new apps and libs replace
these...
I didn't have
anything better to do, I have the flu since this morning.
Hope you get better soon!
Arnold
6:01 a.m.
On 17 March 2010 15:58, Arnold Krille <arnold(a)arnoldarts.de> wrote:
Hi,
On Wednesday 17 March 2010 08:32:15 Ray Rashif wrote:
Definitely, and those haven't even been factored in. And also,
packages will definitely grow to be larger than they are now.
Actually, I only wanted to say "Oh, 10 years? Good luck!"
=p
--
GPG/PGP ID: B42DDCAD
Oo 10 years..yeah that could work. I'm not a
frequent update either,
but anyway a little guesstheomatical fun:
<snip>
## Conclusion ##
Assuming the average schooling and working Archer reads 10 articles a
day, it would take approx. 7 days or a week (inclusive of the
less-than-half-hour pacman -Syyu) to overcome this updating feat.
Having worked with gentoo and therefore knowing the update-processes in such a
setup, I can tell you that your calculation is senseless. Its not wrong in the
mathematical sense, although you can't really add up update-sizes because
after some months you will realize that not every in-between version of an app
to go from the initially installed one to the final one will have to be
downloaded and installed.
But its wrong because the time and trouble for updates aren't the download
times but the times when you configure and reconfigure services. And when you
try to manage to get your current distribution-tool to work with the
repository present in ten years. And the time to learn about which apps and
libs have been deprecated and discontinued and which new apps and libs replace
these... 
2:10 p.m.
Ray Rashif wrote:
On 17 March 2010 15:58, Arnold Krille
<arnold(a)arnoldarts.de> wrote:
And I expect bandwidth will become more costly.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
Hi,
On Wednesday 17 March 2010 08:32:15 Ray Rashif wrote:
Definitely, and those haven't even been factored in. And also,
packages will definitely grow to be larger than they are now. Oo 10 years..yeah that could work. I'm not a
frequent update either,
but anyway a little guesstheomatical fun:
<snip>
## Conclusion ##
Assuming the average schooling and working Archer reads 10 articles a
day, it would take approx. 7 days or a week (inclusive of the
less-than-half-hour pacman -Syyu) to overcome this updating feat.
Having worked
with gentoo and therefore knowing the update-processes in such a
setup, I can tell you that your calculation is senseless. Its not wrong in the
mathematical sense, although you can't really add up update-sizes because
after some months you will realize that not every in-between version of an app
to go from the initially installed one to the final one will have to be
downloaded and installed.
But its wrong because the time and trouble for updates aren't the download
times but the times when you configure and reconfigure services. And when you
try to manage to get your current distribution-tool to work with the
repository present in ten years. And the time to learn about which apps and
libs have been deprecated and discontinued and which new apps and libs replace
these...
10:16 a.m.
________________________________
It's all about what you choose to do. And with
passing time the required
effort might grow.
Philipp
Oo 10 years..yeah that could work. I'm not a
frequent update either,
but anyway a little guesstheomatical fun:
That, is the conlcusion of a best-case scenario. I didn't have
anything better to do, I have the flu since this morning.
Ray
Ray, if you can do this kind of brainstorming while having the flu: I'd want you in
my think tank! Hope you get well soon.
I'm a very low-end user. I rarely use more than 30% of the available features in the
audio software. So staying up with the latest and greatest versions is not a concern of
mine. Hence maybe in 10 years I'll finally find a reason to upgrade. And then again,
maybe not. The capabilities of current Linux audio software is very impressive. Thanks
to the Community.
Best,
Stephen.>> The other thing I like about Arch Linux is that it doesn't
automatically check for updates, and it doesn't try to push updates on you. Now that
I have a system running the way I want, I can leave this system as is for the next 10
years if I wish and there won't be any broken programs due to buggy updates. Oh what
joy, again!
Stephen
6:20 a.m.
On 3/17/10, Stephen Stubbs <theother1510(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
The other thing I like about Arch Linux is that it
doesn't automatically
check for updates, and it doesn't try to push updates on you. Now that I
It's a minor point, but still: Fedora doesn't do this either. It's
PackageKit (or some such) that does, and it can be safely removed (or
not installed in the first place).
Andras
6:26 a.m.
On 17 March 2010 17:20, Andras Simon <szajmi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 3/17/10, Stephen Stubbs
<theother1510(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Actually that can be configured in every package manager's GUI
front-end (if not then that front-end itself shouldn't exist). But I
suppose what was meant was that the default behaviour of not
auto-updating (or having a GUI front-end) is appealing.
--
GPG/PGP ID: B42DDCAD
The other thing I like about Arch Linux is that
it doesn't automatically
check for updates, and it doesn't try to push updates on you. Now that I
It's a minor point, but still: Fedora doesn't do this either. It's
PackageKit (or some such) that does, and it can be safely removed (or
not installed in the first place).
8:52 a.m.
On 3/17/10, Ray Rashif <schivmeister(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 17 March 2010 17:20, Andras Simon
<szajmi(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Yes, you're probably right on both counts. And no auto-update is of
course appealing for those who don't want auto-updating. But these
users should be able to find out in a few minutes how to remove this
feature.
Andras
On 3/17/10, Stephen Stubbs
<theother1510(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Actually that can be configured in every package manager's GUI
front-end (if not then that front-end itself shouldn't exist). But I
suppose what was meant was that the default behaviour of not
auto-updating (or having a GUI front-end) is appealing. The other thing I like about Arch Linux is that
it doesn't automatically
check for updates, and it doesn't try to push updates on you. Now that I
It's a minor point, but still: Fedora doesn't do this either. It's
PackageKit (or some such) that does, and it can be safely removed (or
not installed in the first place).
2:12 p.m.
Andras Simon wrote:
On 3/17/10, Stephen Stubbs
<theother1510(a)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
The only Linux distro I've met that did that "automatic update thing
whether or not you like it" by default was Ubuntu. Debian doesn't. And
I'm sure it can be turned off even in Ubuntu.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
The other thing I like about Arch Linux is that
it doesn't automatically
check for updates, and it doesn't try to push updates on you. Now that I
It's a minor point, but still: Fedora doesn't do this either. It's
PackageKit (or some such) that does, and it can be safely removed (or
not installed in the first place). 
2:27 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:12 AM, david <gnome@.......> wrote:
The only Linux distro I've met that did that "automatic update thing
whether or not you like it" by default was Ubuntu.
Not so automatic, it let's the user know that there are updates on line to
download and install.
It is up to de user update or not. Ubuntu default to this.
Leo
2:47 p.m.
Leo wrote:
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:12 AM, david
<gnome@.......> wrote:
The only Linux distro I've met that did that "automatic update thing
whether or not you like it" by default was Ubuntu.
Not so automatic, it let's the user know that there are updates on line
to download and install.
It is up to de user update or not. Ubuntu default to this.
Yah, you're right. I need to amend my phrasing. Ubuntu is the only Linux
distro I've met that by default automatically checks and asks you to
download/install updates.
Not being a fan of Ubuntu, I've not looked into disabling that annoyance.
--
David
gnome(a)hawaii.rr.com
authenticity, honesty, community
3:17 p.m.
Hi,
On Wednesday 17 March 2010 18:47:08 david wrote:
Leo wrote:
Actually its not "ubuntu" that does the checking but that little gui-tool.
Which can be un-installed with less then five clicks if needed.
Real automatic updates have to be activated by hand in ubuntu. Probably only
by console-work. Don't know if that is also possible in gui because I only use
the console tools...
Apart from that I think ubuntu's release mode is much more suited for staying
stable then gentoo's/arch's as it allows to run "only security
fixes"/"only
minor updates" for 18 months with the regular releases and for five whole years
with the LTS-releases.
Last time I tried something like that with gentoo, I switched to ubuntu after
a day of failures...
Have fun,
Arnold
On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 10:12 AM, david
<gnome@.......> wrote:
The only Linux distro I've met that did that "automatic update thing
whether or not you like it" by default was Ubuntu.
Not so automatic, it let's the user know that there are updates on line
to download and install.
It is up to de user update or not. Ubuntu default to this.
Yah, you're right.
I need to amend my phrasing. Ubuntu is the only Linux
distro I've met that by default automatically checks and asks you to
download/install updates.
Not being a fan of Ubuntu, I've not looked into disabling that annoyance.
5152
days inactive
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21 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
A. C. Censi -
Andras Simon -
Arnold Krille -
Brian Bergstrom -
david -
fons＠kokkinizita.net -
hollunder -
Leo -
Philipp
-
Ray Rashif -
Roger -
Stephen Stubbs