21 Nov
2005
21 Nov
'05
4:14 a.m.
Dear Sirs,
I used to work with Debian (for 2 years as desktop) and I purchased
amd64 3 weeks ago just to have top performance and possibility to use
some dssi software / syntezathors etc...
Just, I need some advise from Gentoo users - as I have to say, that I am
just a little bit disappointed with poor *deb repositories, problems
with dependencies and ... just I am thinking of "switch" by audio
station to Gentoo (I love Debian for philisophy of GNU && independence
and always will, however I WANT TO MAKE THE MUSIC ;) )
So, please AMD64 Gentoo guys, advise me - am I thinking right or not ?
Also, how REALTIME LSM is working with Ingo Molnars patched kernel
2.6.14* / is DSSI working properly / maybe any Audio manuals for Gentoo ?
and of course - I am interested in PURE64 architecture ;)
--
Piotr
21 Nov
21 Nov
1 p.m.
On 11/21/05, Piotr Pruszczak <p.pruszczak(a)pro.onet.pl> wrote:
Dear Sirs,
I used to work with Debian (for 2 years as desktop) and I purchased
amd64 3 weeks ago just to have top performance and possibility to use
some dssi software / syntezathors etc...
Just, I need some advise from Gentoo users - as I have to say, that I am
just a little bit disappointed with poor *deb repositories, problems
with dependencies and ... just I am thinking of "switch" by audio
station to Gentoo (I love Debian for philisophy of GNU && independence
and always will, however I WANT TO MAKE THE MUSIC ;) )
So, please AMD64 Gentoo guys, advise me - am I thinking right or not ?
I would say yes, but I never liked Debian; I always thought it had a
pretty hideous package setup even if it is better than some
competition like RPM.
You will dig the fact that Gentoo will download and install all
dependancies, but something you didn't have before is you have some
say in what those dependencies are. Since 99% of the packages are
built from source you can configure features in or out depending on
your needs. No binary package system offers this.
Most programs have ebuilds and are thus "part" of the Gentoo
distribution. I rarely find something that doesn't have a package or
has a package significantly out of date. Also, especially beneficial
to the AMD64 user like me, the gentoo package system flags packages
that work, don't work, or are untested. This is nice because it keeps
you from updating a package with something that is known to break on
your architecture.
I don't know what the DSSI thing is. I have RT in the .14 kernel and
the only problem I am having is software hibernation (suspend to disk)
crashes somewhere in the RT functions. Nobody but a laptop user like
me cares about this a great deal.
I used to use Slackware because I never enjoyed the binary package
systems offered by the other distros. When I bought an AMD64 I could
no longer use Slackware and get the benefits of the new system. I
tried Gentoo and have never looked back...I use it everywhere now. It
is, IMHO, the best distro out there.
You will run into things that don't work as well on the AMD64. Flash
doesn't work at all and you need a 32 bit version of firefox to view
these websites. Gentoo makes this really easy to set up. I do have
issues with QSynth and its underlying program (forget its name). Last
I tried it did manage to make some scratching noises but I have never
gotten it to work. Newer versions than 3 months or so might do
better. That's about it, most other shit works great. With a mix of
having mostly 64 bit programs, a kernel that has 32 bit entry
functions, and the 32 bit compat libraries and some 32 bit programs is
a great way of doing things. Most stuff is 64 and then things that
don't work or work oddly, like flash or openoffice, can be installed
as 32 bit programs and run as normal - you never notice the diff.
5:10 p.m.
Piotr Pruszczak wrote:
I have to say, that I am just a little bit
disappointed with poor *deb
repositories, problems with dependencies and ... just I am thinking of
"switch" by audio station to Gentoo (I love Debian for philisophy of
GNU && independence and always will, however I WANT TO MAKE THE MUSIC
;) )
I first installed demudi, but ran into depency problems, when I mixed
the repositories with debian ones.
(when I updated jackd, rosegarden was deinstalled and other jokes ;-)
So, my advice is not to mix repositories.
Now I'm running debian with a custom kernel and get most packages from
the debian repository. Since the debian repository doesn't have many
audio-apps, many of those I'm running are self compiled, but most other
packages are binaries from the debian repos.
Going this way, I have access to a huge amount of precompiled apps, my
audio apps are up-to-date and installation-work is limited.
Regarding 64-architecture, I have no idea.
Regards, Emanuel
22 Nov
22 Nov
12:49 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: amd64 - distro questions...
On 11/22/05, Emanuel Rumpf <x(a)branwelt.de> wrote:
Piotr Pruszczak wrote:
> I have to say, that I am just a little bit disappointed with poor *deb
> repositories, problems with dependencies and ... just I am thinking of
> "switch" by audio station to Gentoo (I love Debian for philisophy of
> GNU && independence and always will, however I WANT TO MAKE THE MUSIC
> ;) )
64 bit mandriva 2006 is running well for me music wise. using it on a
amd64 939 3000. I haven't run into any problems apart from the onboard
(ati) graphics card being too new to have drivers, so i bought a
nvidia card to replace it. All round mandriva seem to work well,
although i've needed to rebuild a number source package, but building
src.rpms with urpmi/rpmbuild is pretty easy.
Loki
25 Nov
25 Nov
2:09 p.m.
On 11/21/05, Piotr Pruszczak <p.pruszczak(a)pro.onet.pl> wrote:
Dear Sirs,
I used to work with Debian (for 2 years as desktop) and I purchased
amd64 3 weeks ago just to have top performance and possibility to use
some dssi software / syntezathors etc...
Just, I need some advise from Gentoo users - as I have to say, that I am
just a little bit disappointed with poor *deb repositories, problems
with dependencies and ... just I am thinking of "switch" by audio
station to Gentoo (I love Debian for philisophy of GNU && independence
and always will, however I WANT TO MAKE THE MUSIC ;) )
So, please AMD64 Gentoo guys, advise me - am I thinking right or not ?
Also, how REALTIME LSM is working with Ingo Molnars patched kernel
2.6.14* / is DSSI working properly / maybe any Audio manuals for Gentoo ?
and of course - I am interested in PURE64 architecture ;)
--
Piotr
Hi,
I'm a Gentoo AMD64 user and am running a pure 64-bit setup. The
audio part of it works pretty well for me, but there are a number of
limitations in the overall/non-audio system. Much web based multimedia
doesn't work at all. For browsing I'm using a binary 32-bit version of
version of Firefox, along with all the emulation libraries so that I
can use plugins that work.
There aren't too many limitations on the use of non-multimedia
application code in portage. The trick seems to be deciding when to
use ~x86 and ~amd64. That's a bit of a frustration but not a major
hinderance.
There are issues with the Radeon drivers from ATI working on the
most recent kernels and with 64-bit but I haven't worried yet about
that stuff.
I am having problems with some Wine stuff from Cedega.
Please don't look for overwhelming amounts of AMD64 support here in
Linux audio land. AFAICT not too many developers have these machines
and so when problems come up they are not likely to get addressed very
fast. For instance xfst will not compile for me right now, nor for the
last 2-3 weeks.
Overall I don't know of a better way to build a 64-bit machine
today, but granted, I haven't tried any others. This one worked more
or less out of the box for me in terms of running Ardour, Aqualung and
a few other apps. I have had to do my own kernels wit this box where
that was not necessary on my 32-bit Gentoo machines.
Hope this helps,
Mark
2:52 p.m.
On 11/25/05, Mark Knecht <markknecht(a)gmail.com> wrote:
There aren't too many limitations on the use of
non-multimedia
application code in portage. The trick seems to be deciding when to
use ~x86 and ~amd64. That's a bit of a frustration but not a major
hinderance.
I can answer that. You never use ~x86 on an amd64 running in 64 bit
mode. It can cause serious issues if you do. You may not have run
into such issues but they are there and I have (first time I installed
I decided to take that shortcut as well). The correct way to install
code is to use ~amd64 if you need to. If it is not there then you add
it if you really want the program but keep in mind that it means that
the program very well might not work on amd64 or may be incredibly
unstable.
Why not use ~x86? Think of the following scenario:
* app-theoretical has ~x86 but not ~amd64 in the latest release
because it has been reported as unstable by most people..
* app-theoretical depends on lib-theoretical.
* You have lib-theoretical installed but it is a version previous to
the reqs on this latest release of app-theoretical - many of your
programs require this lib - you have a *stable* install of this
library.
* The new release of lib-theoretical does not work on amd64 and is
known to have many issues for many people. Therefore the keyword
~amd64 is not included.
You run emerge on app-theoretical with the ~x86 accept flags and it
replaces lib-theoretical with something that does not work. Not even
updating your programs will fix the issue.
It also causes problems when you mix flags like that because of the
way emerge chooses to install requirements. You just don't do it or
eventually your system will start to act shitty. Gentoo has a good
article on this in one of their FAQ or something for the amd64.
8:05 p.m.
On 11/25/05, Noah Roberts <roberts.noah(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/25/05, Mark Knecht <markknecht(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
OK, if this is the case (cannot use ~x86 and ~amd64 on the same
machine) then my impression, from the set of apps I'm running right
now, is there there is a lot of software I cannot depend on. There are
a large number of apps that don't work unless compiled with ~x86. If I
cannot use that then I cannot run maybe 30-40% of what I want to run.
Of course, I've not hit the problems you're describing. I've been
lucky I suppose.
There aren't too many limitations on the
use of non-multimedia
application code in portage. The trick seems to be deciding when to
use ~x86 and ~amd64. That's a bit of a frustration but not a major
hinderance.
I can answer that. You never use ~x86 on an amd64 running in 64 bit
mode. It can cause serious issues if you do. You may not have run
into such issues but they are there and I have (first time I installed
I decided to take that shortcut as well). The correct way to install
code is to use ~amd64 if you need to. If it is not there then you add
it if you really want the program but keep in mind that it means that
the program very well might not work on amd64 or may be incredibly
unstable.
Why not use ~x86? Think of the following scenario:
* app-theoretical has ~x86 but not ~amd64 in the latest release
because it has been reported as unstable by most people..
* app-theoretical depends on lib-theoretical.
* You have lib-theoretical installed but it is a version previous to
the reqs on this latest release of app-theoretical - many of your
programs require this lib - you have a *stable* install of this
library.
* The new release of lib-theoretical does not work on amd64 and is
known to have many issues for many people. Therefore the keyword
~amd64 is not included.
You run emerge on app-theoretical with the ~x86 accept flags and it
replaces lib-theoretical with something that does not work. Not even
updating your programs will fix the issue.
It also causes problems when you mix flags like that because of the
way emerge chooses to install requirements. You just don't do it or
eventually your system will start to act shitty. Gentoo has a good
article on this in one of their FAQ or something for the amd64.
Thanks. Interesting info.
Cheers,
Mark
10:02 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Re: amd64 - distro questions...
Why not use
~x86? Think of the following scenario:
* app-theoretical has ~x86 but not ~amd64 in the latest release
because it has been reported as unstable by most people..
* app-theoretical depends on lib-theoretical.
* You have lib-theoretical installed but it is a version previous to
the reqs on this latest release of app-theoretical - many of your
programs require this lib - you have a *stable* install of this
library.
* The new release of lib-theoretical does not work on amd64 and is
known to have many issues for many people. Therefore the keyword
~amd64 is not included.
You run emerge on app-theoretical with the ~x86 accept flags and it
replaces lib-theoretical with something that does not work. Not even
updating your programs will fix the issue.
It also causes problems when you mix flags like that because of the
way emerge chooses to install requirements. You just don't do it or
eventually your system will start to act shitty. Gentoo has a good
article on this in one of their FAQ or something for the amd64.
Thanks. Interesting info.
Cheers,
Mark
26 Nov
26 Nov
4:03 p.m.
On 11/25/05, Mark Knecht <markknecht(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/25/05, Noah Roberts
<roberts.noah(a)gmail.com> wrote:
If you say so. Since this is still a fairly soa processor that isn't
very surprising is it?
There are
On 11/25/05, Mark Knecht
<markknecht(a)gmail.com> wrote:
OK, if this is the case (cannot use ~x86 and ~amd64 on the same
machine) then my impression, from the set of apps I'm running right
now, is there there is a lot of software I cannot depend on. There aren't too many limitations on the
use of non-multimedia
application code in portage. The trick seems to be deciding when to
use ~x86 and ~amd64. That's a bit of a frustration but not a major
hinderance.
I can answer that. You never use ~x86 on an amd64 running in 64 bit
mode. It can cause serious issues if you do. You may not have run
into such issues but they are there and I have (first time I installed
I decided to take that shortcut as well). The correct way to install
code is to use ~amd64 if you need to. If it is not there then you add
it if you really want the program but keep in mind that it means that
the program very well might not work on amd64 or may be incredibly
unstable. a large number of apps that don't work unless
compiled with ~x86.
You are mistaking what ~x86 does. You are not "compiling with ~x86"
when you use that accept flag, you are saying, "I have an x86
processor and I want the latest, greatest, untested and likely
unstable programs installed." Not only that, but you are telling
emerge to also install updates that may be unstable on the x86 for all
dependencies of the program you are installing with that flag. So, if
it is untested and unstable on the x86 and you don't have an x86 then
what do you think you are saying?
If I
cannot use that then I cannot run maybe 30-40% of what
I want to run.
Not true. There is very little that you "cannot" run on the amd64.
There are some very few programs that have the -amd64 keyword because
they are known to not work and cause problems. What you do run into a
lot is areas that have not been touched by the amd64 team (though this
is getting to be less and less) and so just simply have no amd64
keyword at all. At that point it is on you to add the keyword and
test the program. You can send a bug report if it works and maybe
they will add it to the main tree.
They have made this a bit easier with the package.keywords file:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-amd64-faq.xml#keyword
This allows you to apply the ~x86 flag to a single package without the
dangers I describe. This is something I have just discovered.
Of course, I've not hit the problems you're describing. I've been
lucky I suppose.
Yeah, it worked for me too...right up until it didn't. Then I read
the website that said, "Don't do that," and I kicked myself and
reinstalled.
4:32 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Ebuild for fst
Hi,
i wrote an ebuild for fst. It can be downloaded here
http://mundaka.free.fr/ebuild/fst-1.7.ebuild .
Comments are welcome.
Guitoo
7:07 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Ebuild for fst
guillaume Meurisse wrote:
Hi,
i wrote an ebuild for fst. It can be downloaded here
http://mundaka.free.fr/ebuild/fst-1.7.ebuild .
Comments are welcome.
Guitoo
Great stuff, I had just built the latest xfst but now will start using this.
Will you be submitting this to portage?
~telengard
--
.--------------------------------------------------,--------.
| Brian Sturk - http://users.adelphia.net/~bsturk \ C/C++ | .> )\,^a__
|-------------------------. bsturk<AT>adelphia.net | Python |( _ _)/ /-."~
| http://www.telengard.com `------------------------`-------| `( )_ )/
| Telengard Technologies Inc. - NT/*nix UI & device drivers |_<_s_<_s
`-----------------------------------------------------------'
8:11 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Ebuild for fst
Brian Sturk wrote:
Great stuff, I had just built the latest xfst but now will start using
this. Will you be submitting this to portage?
~telengard
With this ebuild fst needs xfst.exe.so to be copied in the same
directory as fst. This is quite ugly. I'll try to fix this before
submiting to portage.
guitoo
1 Dec
1 Dec
5:01 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-user] Ebuild for fst
On Sat, Nov 26, 2005 at 11:19:57PM +0100, Guillaume Meurisse wrote:
Brian Sturk wrote:
cool... go ahead...
fst searches $PATH though.. so if you change line 15
to
for i in $PATH:$FSTPATH it should be ok...
Great stuff, I had just built the latest xfst but now will start using
this. Will you be submitting this to portage?
~telengard
With this ebuild fst needs xfst.exe.so to be copied in the same
directory as fst. This is quite ugly. I'll try to fix this before
submiting to portage.
guitoo
--
torben Hohn
http://galan.sourceforge.net -- The graphical Audio language
25 Nov
25 Nov
3:27 p.m.
I'm a Gentoo AMD64 user and am running a pure
64-bit setup. The
audio part of it works pretty well for me, but there are a number of
limitations in the overall/non-audio system. Much web based multimedia
doesn't work at all.
disagree. the only thing that doesnt work is silly flash animation sites, and annoying
flash banners, and a few sites that are lame enough to use flash for the navigation. no
big loss. the latest mplayerplug-in even has support for google video, and quicktime, and
windows media, providing the codec is implemented via ffmpeg or such - it usually is. its
nice to reclaim that diskspace and kernel compile time that was just so i could see silly
flash ads i didnt even want to see
For browsing I'm using a binary 32-bit version of
version of Firefox, along with all the emulation libraries so that I
can use plugins that work.
There aren't too many limitations on the use of non-multimedia
application code in portage. The trick seems to be deciding when to
use ~x86 and ~amd64. That's a bit of a frustration but not a major
hinderance.
you should use amd64 ~amd64 and manually ekeyword/emerge --digest or ACCEPT_KEYWORDS if
its missing, most stuff that hasnt been marked yet works fine
the biggest problem ive had is jack crashes a lot when compiled with gcc4. recompiling
jack and alsa-lib and the kernel driver etc iwth 3.44 brings back stability, which is
rather odd, but whatever.. and PD doesnt work, and Chuck runs and segfaults, SC won't
compile, but every other audio app works great
fast. For instance xfst will not compile for me right
now, nor for the
last 2-3 weeks.
it compiles with -m32 on a multilib system after a few tweaks with the makefile. but
running a 32bit jackd and a64 bit jackd and connecting them via UDP is kind of silly. i
guess plug:jack via alsalib might work too, but i didnt try that before deleting multilib
:)
3:40 p.m.
On Fri, 2005-11-25 at 11:27 -0800, carmen wrote:
the biggest problem ive had is jack crashes a lot when
compiled with
gcc4. recompiling jack and alsa-lib and the kernel driver etc iwth
3.44 brings back stability, which is rather odd, but whatever.. and PD
doesnt work, and Chuck runs and segfaults, SC won't compile, but every
other audio app works great
Does gentoo still compile everything with overly aggressive CFLAGS?
Lee
3:54 p.m.
On 11/25/05, Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> wrote:
On Fri, 2005-11-25 at 11:27 -0800, carmen wrote:
CFLAGS="-march=k8 -O2 -pipe"
Those are mine. I think they are the default...or where when I installed.
the biggest problem ive had is jack crashes a lot
when compiled with
gcc4. recompiling jack and alsa-lib and the kernel driver etc iwth
3.44 brings back stability, which is rather odd, but whatever.. and PD
doesnt work, and Chuck runs and segfaults, SC won't compile, but every
other audio app works great
Does gentoo still compile everything with overly aggressive CFLAGS? 
7:58 p.m.
On 11/25/05, Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> wrote:
On Fri, 2005-11-25 at 11:27 -0800, carmen wrote:
Talk about a value judgement! ;-)
Gentoo doesn't compile anything. We do. I get to take responsibility
for my flags even if I don't know what th eheck they do! On a
non-performance machine here's what we've run for just over 2 years:
CFLAGS="-O3 -march=athlon-xp -funroll-loops -fprefetch-loop-arrays -pipe"
- Mark
the biggest problem ive had is jack crashes a lot
when compiled with
gcc4. recompiling jack and alsa-lib and the kernel driver etc iwth
3.44 brings back stability, which is rather odd, but whatever.. and PD
doesnt work, and Chuck runs and segfaults, SC won't compile, but every
other audio app works great
Does gentoo still compile everything with overly aggressive CFLAGS?
Lee
8:02 p.m.
On 11/25/05, carmen <ix(a)replic.net> wrote:
I don't think my machine works quite as well as you are presenting
here, but I think I agree that it's not all that bad. I expect it will
get better.
OK, I'm glad it compiles for you. However it does not compile for me.
Please post the fixes back to Torben for his blessing so the rest of
us can benefit. I stand by my comment that it has never compiled for
me. I expect it will one of these days.
Thanks,
Mark
I'm a
Gentoo AMD64 user and am running a pure 64-bit setup. The
audio part of it works pretty well for me, but there are a number of
limitations in the overall/non-audio system. Much web based multimedia
doesn't work at all.
disagree. the only thing that doesnt work is silly flash animation sites, and annoying
flash banners, and a few sites that are lame enough to use flash for the navigation. no
big loss. the latest mplayerplug-in even has support for google video, and quicktime, and
windows media, providing the codec is implemented via ffmpeg or such - it usually is. its
nice to reclaim that diskspace and kernel compile time that was just so i could see silly
flash ads i didnt even want to see For browsing I'm using a binary 32-bit
version of
version of Firefox, along with all the emulation libraries so that I
can use plugins that work.
There aren't too many limitations on the use of non-multimedia
application code in portage. The trick seems to be deciding when to
use ~x86 and ~amd64. That's a bit of a frustration but not a major
hinderance.
you should use amd64 ~amd64 and manually ekeyword/emerge --digest or ACCEPT_KEYWORDS if
its missing, most stuff that hasnt been marked yet works fine
the biggest problem ive had is jack crashes a lot when compiled with gcc4. recompiling
jack and alsa-lib and the kernel driver etc iwth 3.44 brings back stability, which is
rather odd, but whatever.. and PD doesnt work, and Chuck runs and segfaults, SC won't
compile, but every other audio app works great
fast. For instance xfst will not compile for me
right now, nor for the
last 2-3 weeks.
it compiles with -m32 on a multilib system after a few tweaks with the makefile. but
running a 32bit jackd and a64 bit jackd and connecting them via UDP is kind of silly. i
guess plug:jack via alsalib might work too, but i didnt try that before deleting multilib
:) 
18 Dec
18 Dec
6:22 a.m.
On Fri, Nov 25, 2005 at 11:27:29AM -0800, carmen wrote:
Many people recommend keeping e-mail messages 72 chars wide.
--
Chris.
======
Reproduction if desired may be handled locally. -- rfc3
I'm a
Gentoo AMD64 user and am running a pure 64-bit setup. The
audio part of it works pretty well for me, but there are a number of
limitations in the overall/non-audio system. Much web based multimedia
doesn't work at all.
disagree. the only thing that doesnt work is silly flash animation sites, and annoying
flash banners, and a few sites that are lame enough to use flash for the navigation. no
big loss. the latest mplayerplug-in even has support for google video, and quicktime, and
windows media, providing the codec is implemented via ffmpeg or such - it usually is. its
nice to reclaim that diskspace and kernel compile time that was just so i could see silly
flash ads i didnt even want to see 
7:24 a.m.
disagree. the
only thing that doesnt work is silly flash animation sites, and annoying flash banners,
and a few sites that are lame enough to use flash for the navigation. no big loss. the
latest mplayerplug-in even has support for google video, and quicktime, and windows media,
providing the codec is implemented via ffmpeg or such - it usually is. its nice to reclaim
that diskspace and kernel compile time that was just so i could see silly flash ads i
didnt even want to see
Many people recommend keeping e-mail messages 72 chars wide.
6703
days inactive
6730
days old
linux-audio-user@lists.linuxaudio.org
20 comments
13 participants
participants (13)
-
Brian Sturk -
c -
carmen -
Chris Bannister -
Emanuel Rumpf -
guillaume Meurisse -
Lee Revell -
Loki Davison -
Mark Knecht -
Noah Roberts -
Piotr Pruszczak -
Rob Fell -
torbenh＠gmx.de