[LAD] [LAU] Release: New Session Manager Version 1.3

rosea.grammostola rosea.grammostola at gmail.com
Thu Jun 18 14:10:57 CEST 2020

On 6/18/20 12:34 PM, Filipe Coelho wrote:
> Hi
> On 18/06/20 10:17, rosea.grammostola wrote:
>> Quite a hijack...
>> No credits to the original author in the release announcement, which 
>> is quite disrespectful. He did finally solve the session management 
>> problem on Linuxaudio with Non-Session-Manager after several attempts 
>> by some serious skilled programmers.
> Fair point. We did mention that it is based on the NON stuff, but not 
> Jonathan's name. Sorry for that, it was not intentional.
> The "highjack" had to be done though, otherwise NSM would simply go 
> nowhere. You even say yourself "I understand in some way that a fork 
> is a logical consequence".
> We were very sad that the toxicity around one person was causing such 
> harm to such great tool.
> In order to make NSM a real thing for linuxaudio (that is, not simply 
> used by a tiny few users and apps), we *need* to get the community 
> involved.
> To quote Jonathan himself:
> > Progress will not happen on its own. It must be forced along by 
> individuals of power, wisdom, and vision; which we should all aspire 
> to become.
>> Release around midnight Europe time.
>> Very classy guys.
> Why is release time important there? (serious question)
> We released after we had everything ready. And since we usually work 
> on these things past official work-hours, that meant late in the day.
> I don't see how this changes anything, or tells anything about the 
> status of the project.
>> Disappointing.
> Might seem so from your point of you, but we tried, many many times to 
> get everyone to work together here.

You know I did a lot for NSM, and I'm probably the most likely the most 
active user in the community. Involved from the start of the project. I 
did a lot to improve the situation lately, with some success. I've had 
contact with both of you last week (IRC and mail). Nils sent me mail 
this week about NSM/Jonathan. Nothing about the fork. Besides the fact 
that I understand that at some point a fork was inevitable, next time 
you want to fork, just say it and make sure to do it in full daylight. 
This is acting like snakes on pro level and in a way very childish too. 
Quite disappointing for people who seems to have high social standards, 
but are lacking a mirror at home apparently.

On a technical level, I'm glad you are aiming to be fully compatible 
with the original Non-session-manager (NSM). I'm just afraid that you're 
underestimating the task at hand and the accomplishments being made here 
though. Not giving the original author the credits he deserves, might be 
a sign of it as well.

 From personal experience, I've still have to find someone else besides 
the original author of NSM, who understands why NSM works as a session 
manager. It works I think, because it's simple and has clear rules. I 
see a urge for new features, which are potentially harmful for the 
success of NSM. When I didn't use Linuxaudio for years and restarted it, 
it was quite a horrible experience. JACK standalone applications do have 
all kinds of features, but where crashing on me constantly (the nice 
thing about NSM, is that you've it back in one click). Totally unusable 
to make music with. I'm personally not waiting for new non-essential NSM 
features, which are making my setup less predictable, more resources 
consuming and less stable.

Raysession, I've no confidence in it. I said enough about it. Better 
spent your time in NSM support for clients.

You recommend Argodejo as GUI on the github page. I've a very hard time 
finding it better then the default NSM GUI. The simple view is not that 
simple anymore if you've a lot of sessions. The advanced view, is more 
complex then the original GUI, because it gives you so much more 
information. Duplicate was renamed as 'save as', which might cause 
dataloss for people who expect it to behave as 'save as' in other 
applications. Might be personal preferences, but all these small things 
doesn't make me very enthusiastic about NSM without the original author.

A other related experience. Feature request for Radium. NSM support in 
Radium, which is great. Author did implement accidentally server client 
osc messages. As a consequence he decides to give Radium session manager 
functionality as well. I think this design approach will harm a reliable 
and predictable NSM session environment for the user at the end.

Anyway, wasted too much time on it already probably.


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