[linux-audio-user] Re: linux-audio-user digest, Vol 1 #564 - 12 msgs

Peter Groves pgroves at uiuc.edu
Mon Jul 14 12:33:00 EDT 2003 

Thanks for such an in depth explanation. Today will go down as one of
those days I actually learned me somethin.

| > I don't understand this whole 'drift' thing. If I'm able to listen to a
| > previously recorded drum track and record a guitar track over it (in
| > sync with the recording) with either card, how is it possible for them
| > to be out of sync with each other?
|
| Peter,
|    It's easy for people to not see this problem the first time they look at
| it, but it's usually not that difficult to explain, given a bit of basic
| engineering background.
|
|    All of these sound cards have oscillators on them to allow them to sample
| and playback at a given rate, such as 44100 Hz. the problem is that no two
| oscillators (or the crystals that drive them) produce EXACTLY 44100 cyles
| per second. They are spec'ed to be within a certain tolerance, like 1%, or
| +/- 100 parts per million, but the point is that they are not creating
| exactly the 'right' number of cycles per second.
|
|    With this in mind, if you have two sound cards (same models, different
| models, it doesn't matter) and they run from separate clock sources, then
| one of them might be operating at 44099 cyles per second, while the other is
| operating at 44101 cycles per second. If this was the case, then (in
| differeing by 2 cyles per second) after 22050 seconds they would be out of
| sync by one complete second. (The slow one would be one second behind.)
| Since the human ear can pick up very minute differences in time, the effect
| becomes noticible much more quickly than that though, and unfortunately,
| most crystals will be much further off than 1 cycle per second from the
| spec.
|
|    The reason you can play the same track back, over and over, and even on
| different sound cards, is that while 44100 samples 'represents' on second,
| it may not 'take' on second to play back. You ear is pretty insensitive to
| the idea that a song played on your CD player in the house takes 3:49.203
| seconds, while in the car it might take 3:49:542 seonds. We are just not
| sensitive enough to hear that, although the pitch in the house would be
| measureable as slightly higher.
|
|    All this said, it is NOT true that you cannot use two (or more) sound
| cards at the same time. You can, but they have to be clocked from the same
| clock. you can accomplish this on any pair of sound cards that support the
| Word Clock interface, and I've been able to do it over ADAT interfaces with
| multiple cards, but that's not for the uninitiated. ;-) It's harder to set
| up.
|
|    I hope this helps clarify the physical reasons that this is difficult.
|
|    There is a software reason also. Linux/Alsa will onlt interrface to a
| single clock, so clocks being generated by two sound cards are not something
| that Alsa is designed to handle.
|
| Cheers,
| Mark
|
|
|
|
| --__--__--
|
| Message: 7
| Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:35:33 -0700 (PDT)
| From: Brian Redfern <bredfern at calarts.edu>
| To: linux-audio-user at music.columbia.edu
| Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Success stories
| Reply-To: linux-audio-user at music.columbia.edu
|
| Well, I use Swami to build my own sound fonts, I have some quite gritty
| ones, cause my old band-mate is the producer for The Freestyle Fellowship
| (if you haven't heard of them, they've been the underground legends of Hi
| Hop for 12 years now).
|
| Anyways I find Csound to be the tool of choice for serious composition in
| a linux only environment. Personally I don't go quite that far, I use muse
| and rosegarden to sequnce my midi gear, I have an asrx pro and a korg
| electribe s. Unfortunately I've found jack/iiwusynth to be too unstable to
| work with.
|
| Thus I'm using midi and muse to sequence my outboard gear and then I use
| broadcast2000 to record the tracks and to overdub acoustic instruments.
|
| Its not completely linux only, but linux is the only computer os I use in
| making my music.
|
|
|
|
|
| On 13 Jul 2003, Hartmut Z Noack wrote:
|
| > I downloaded the track "nasty valve1" an gave it a listen.
| > Hmmm the Intro is quite impressing - lot of personality, cool groove.
| > But after 20 seconds or so i hear a GM-Drumkit wich reminds me of a
| > Yamaha middleclass PSR-Preset - not that much personality anymore -
| > quite plastic i must say.
| > I do not blame this on your friend/musician - i guess the problem is
| > iiuwsynth`s soundfont-bullshit.
| > Whithout an implementation of a real drumsampler, Muse cannot do much
| > better i fear.
| > The Synthsounds are very promising though...
| >
| > Am Fre, 2003-07-11 um 16.14 schrieb Robert Jonsson:
| > > Hi guys and gals,
| > >
| > > A friend of mine has been doing some very serious attempts at producing music
| > > with a fully linux based setup lately.
| > > There has been lots of pitfalls along the way, but since he is a _very_
| > > dedicated guy he has come a long way towards pulling of his goal.
| > >
| > > The goal in question being to produce an "album" purely in linux. (album in
| > > the sense that the songs are freely downloadable from the same web page on
| > > the net, i think ;) )
| > >
| > > He has just started to document the thing, you can have a look here:
| > > http://computerville.homeip.net/linuxmusic/, there are also some samples of
| > > what he has produced this far, in my opinion it shows that linux audio is
| > > getting 'there'.
| > >
| > > Have a nice weekend,
| > > Robert
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|
| --__--__--
|
| Message: 8
| Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:05:58 +0200
| From: mik prims <mprims at skynet.be>
| To: linux-audio-user at music.columbia.edu
| Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Success stories
| Reply-To: linux-audio-user at music.columbia.edu
|
| On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:35:33 -0700 (PDT)
| Brian Redfern <bredfern at calarts.edu> wrote:
|
| > Well, I use Swami to build my own sound fonts, I have some quite gritty
| > ones, cause my old band-mate is the producer for The Freestyle Fellowship
| > (if you haven't heard of them, they've been the underground legends of Hi
| > Hop for 12 years now).
| >
| Boundaries! Boundaries! You've got to be righteous, you've got to be free etc.
|
| m
|
| --__--__--
|
| Message: 9
| Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2003 18:12:08 -0700 (PDT)
| From: Brian Redfern <bredfern at calarts.edu>
| To: linux-audio-user at music.columbia.edu
| Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Success stories
| Reply-To: linux-audio-user at music.columbia.edu
|
| Exactly. Joe is an awsome producer, check out their albumn from 2001, Joe
| is producing and the beats are just fluid. He uses nothing but an adat
| and an asr10 keyboard, and that's it.
| Once jack gets mature then you'll be able to do more and more with just
| linux. Already I can do complete live sets just playing terminatorX on
| linux and that's it, though I usually play live guitar and sync together
| my adrenalinn with my korg es1 and then I put the audio from terminatorX
| through the korg to process it. I think linux works just as well with
| midi gear as mac/windows does, especially Suse, I've had the best results
| so far with Suse 8.2, but its not suprising given that Suse employs
| geniuses like Takashi Iwai.
|
|
|
| On Mon, 14 Jul 2003, mik prims wrote:
|
| > On Sun, 13 Jul 2003 13:35:33 -0700 (PDT)
| > Brian Redfern <bredfern at calarts.edu> wrote:
| >
| > > Well, I use Swami to build my own sound fonts, I have some quite gritty
| > > ones, cause my old band-mate is the producer for The Freestyle Fellowship
| > > (if you haven't heard of them, they've been the underground legends of Hi
| > > Hop for 12 years now).
| > >
| > Boundaries! Boundaries! You've got to be righteous, you've got to be free etc.
| >
| > m
| >
|
|
| --__--__--
|
| Message: 10
| Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:07:15 +0900
| From: Patrick Shirkey <pshirkey at boosthardware.com>
| Organization: Boost Hardware
| To: linux-audio-user at music.columbia.edu
| Subject: [linux-audio-user] [OT] Live music.
| Reply-To: linux-audio-user at music.columbia.edu
|
| In case there are still some people out there who thinks Linux musos
| don't actually have an audience or something else stupid like that, some
| of you may be interested in what we are doing here in Korea.
|
| http://www.djcj.org/gigs/ethos
|
|
|
| --
| Patrick Shirkey - Boost Hardware Ltd.
| Http://www.boosthardware.com
| Http://www.djcj.org - The Linux Audio Users guide
| ========================================
|
| Being on stage with the band in front of crowds shouting, "Get off! No!
| We want normal music!", I think that was more like acting than anything
| I've ever done.
|
| Goldie, 8 Nov, 2002
| The Scotsman
|
|
| --__--__--
|
| Message: 11
| Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 00:53:38 -0400 (EDT)
| From: Lee Azzarello <lee at fallingforward.net>
| To: Audio-User <linux-audio-user at music.columbia.edu>
| Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Success stories
| Reply-To: linux-audio-user at music.columbia.edu
|
| configure can't find fftw3f. I just installed version 3 alongside version
| 2.1.5, which is Gentoo's current version which I can't remove because many
| things depend on it. I tried setting PKG_CONFIG_PATH to /usr/local/lib but
| no luck. Could you maybe put in a --with-fftw-prefix= option to configure?
|
| -l[e^2]
| ------------------------------
| http://www.fallingforward.net/
| people experimenting with music, art and technology
|
| On 13 Jul 2003, Jan Depner wrote:
|
| > Lee,
| >
| > 	Very cool page.  I'm glad you found my ALSA_JACK_ARDOUR doc useful.
| > You should check out JAMin for mastering -
| > http://sourceforge.net/projects/jamin/.  We're getting pretty close and
| > it's already useful.  I'm working on selectable scenes right now.  You
| > could add it to your list - T-RackS for $400 vs JAMin for $0.  I keep a
| > copy of the latest tarball on my site
| > http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/jamin.tgz if you can't get the
| > sourceforge CVS to work for you (it's been a bit flaky lately).
| >
| > Cheers
| >
| > Jan
| >
| > On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 18:14, Lee Azzarello wrote:
| > > I'm also rocking this steez. Here's my log of progress:
| > > http://www.fallingforward.net/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=62
| > >
| > > -l[e^2]
| > > ------------------------------
| > > http://www.fallingforward.net/
| > > people experimenting with music, art and technology
| > >
| > > On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Robert Jonsson wrote:
| > >
| > > > Hi guys and gals,
| > > >
| > > > A friend of mine has been doing some very serious attempts at producing music
| > > > with a fully linux based setup lately.
| > > > There has been lots of pitfalls along the way, but since he is a _very_
| > > > dedicated guy he has come a long way towards pulling of his goal.
| > > >
| > > > The goal in question being to produce an "album" purely in linux. (album in
| > > > the sense that the songs are freely downloadable from the same web page on
| > > > the net, i think ;) )
| > > >
| > > > He has just started to document the thing, you can have a look here:
| > > > http://computerville.homeip.net/linuxmusic/, there are also some samples of
| > > > what he has produced this far, in my opinion it shows that linux audio is
| > > > getting 'there'.
| > > >
| > > > Have a nice weekend,
| > > > Robert
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|
| --__--__--
|
| Message: 12
| Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Success stories
| From: Jan Depner <eviltwin69 at cableone.net>
| To: Audio-User <linux-audio-user at music.columbia.edu>
| Date: 14 Jul 2003 04:37:38 -0500
| Reply-To: linux-audio-user at music.columbia.edu
|
| You have to set --enable-float on the ./configure line for fftw3.
| Normally it compiles only the double precision version.
|
| Jan
|
| On Sun, 2003-07-13 at 23:53, Lee Azzarello wrote:
| > configure can't find fftw3f. I just installed version 3 alongside version
| > 2.1.5, which is Gentoo's current version which I can't remove because many
| > things depend on it. I tried setting PKG_CONFIG_PATH to /usr/local/lib but
| > no luck. Could you maybe put in a --with-fftw-prefix= option to configure?
| >
| > -l[e^2]
| > ------------------------------
| > http://www.fallingforward.net/
| > people experimenting with music, art and technology
| >
| > On 13 Jul 2003, Jan Depner wrote:
| >
| > > Lee,
| > >
| > > 	Very cool page.  I'm glad you found my ALSA_JACK_ARDOUR doc useful.
| > > You should check out JAMin for mastering -
| > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/jamin/.  We're getting pretty close and
| > > it's already useful.  I'm working on selectable scenes right now.  You
| > > could add it to your list - T-RackS for $400 vs JAMin for $0.  I keep a
| > > copy of the latest tarball on my site
| > > http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/jamin.tgz if you can't get the
| > > sourceforge CVS to work for you (it's been a bit flaky lately).
| > >
| > > Cheers
| > >
| > > Jan
| > >
| > > On Sat, 2003-07-12 at 18:14, Lee Azzarello wrote:
| > > > I'm also rocking this steez. Here's my log of progress:
| > > > http://www.fallingforward.net/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=62
| > > >
| > > > -l[e^2]
| > > > ------------------------------
| > > > http://www.fallingforward.net/
| > > > people experimenting with music, art and technology
| > > >
| > > > On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Robert Jonsson wrote:
| > > >
| > > > > Hi guys and gals,
| > > > >
| > > > > A friend of mine has been doing some very serious attempts at producing music
| > > > > with a fully linux based setup lately.
| > > > > There has been lots of pitfalls along the way, but since he is a _very_
| > > > > dedicated guy he has come a long way towards pulling of his goal.
| > > > >
| > > > > The goal in question being to produce an "album" purely in linux. (album in
| > > > > the sense that the songs are freely downloadable from the same web page on
| > > > > the net, i think ;) )
| > > > >
| > > > > He has just started to document the thing, you can have a look here:
| > > > > http://computerville.homeip.net/linuxmusic/, there are also some samples of
| > > > > what he has produced this far, in my opinion it shows that linux audio is
| > > > > getting 'there'.
| > > > >
| > > > > Have a nice weekend,
| > > > > Robert
| > > > >
| > > > >
| > > > >
| > > > >
| > > > >
| > > > >
| > > >
| > >
| > >
| >
|
|
|
|
| --__--__--
|
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| linux-audio-user at music.columbia.edu
| http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-user
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|
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