12 Jun
2009
12 Jun
'09
10:25 a.m.
Hi all,
It seems the blender community is starting a new open movie project,
codename Durian: http://durian.blender.org. As usual, they will use
Inkscape, Gimp and of course Blender to make this new movie.
I'm not sure what they used for the previous projects as far as audio is
concerned. Wouldn't it be interesting for the Linux Audio community to give
them a hand with the audio part of the project ? I'm thinking of providing
those who will be in charge of making the audio part of the movie with some
advanced support from those who know their way around
ardour/jack/you-name-it.
What do you think ? Shall I send an email with a proposal ?
There is a chance we could get the consortium name and logo in the
credits...
Cheers,
--
Marc-Olivier Barre
XMPP ID : marco(a)marcochapeau.org
www.MarcOChapeau.org
12 Jun
12 Jun
4:46 p.m.
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 5:25 AM, Marc-Olivier
Barre<marco(a)marcochapeau.org> wrote:
I'm not sure what they used for the previous
projects as far as audio is
concerned. Wouldn't it be interesting for the Linux Audio community to give
them a hand with the audio part of the project ? I'm thinking of providing
those who will be in charge of making the audio part of the movie with some
advanced support from those who know their way around
ardour/jack/you-name-it.
You can offer to help I suppose. My understanding is that the
music/audio has been the only part not produced with open tools in the
previous two projects. They didn't advertise for music or audio
artists, so they may have someone in mind already. Jan Morgenstern,
who did Elephants Dream and Big Buck Bunny, is very good. :)
-r
6:48 p.m.
You can offer to help I suppose. My understanding is
that the
music/audio has been the only part not produced with open tools in the
previous two projects.
:( But there are so many good, open audio tools... as we know.
-Michael
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 2:46 PM, Ralph Giles<giles(a)xiph.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 5:25 AM, Marc-Olivier
Barre<marco(a)marcochapeau.org> wrote:
--
http://michaelclemow.com
http://semiotech.org
I'm not sure what they used for the previous
projects as far as audio is
concerned. Wouldn't it be interesting for the Linux Audio community to give
them a hand with the audio part of the project ? I'm thinking of providing
those who will be in charge of making the audio part of the movie with some
advanced support from those who know their way around
ardour/jack/you-name-it.
You can offer to help I suppose. My understanding is that the
music/audio has been the only part not produced with open tools in the
previous two projects. They didn't advertise for music or audio
artists, so they may have someone in mind already. Jan Morgenstern,
who did Elephants Dream and Big Buck Bunny, is very good. :)
-r
_______________________________________________
Consortium mailing list
Consortium(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/consortium
5:27 p.m.
Hi Daniel,
You can't do that in Ardour? I've honestly never tried to do any 5.1
work, but I imagine that even if you had to go outboard for the mix,
it wouldn't be that hard. I guess they're doing what they think is
best. But I think that their decision might be based on something
other than a lack of open audio tools. I'm probably biased... ;-)
-Mike
On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Daniel James<daniel(a)64studio.com> wrote:
Hi Mike,
--
http://michaelclemow.com
http://semiotech.org
But there are so many good, open audio tools...
as we know.
I understand that one roadblock with previous projects was the need for a
5.1 mixdown of the soundtrack.
Cheers!
Daniel
14 Jun
14 Jun
6:50 p.m.
mike clemow wrote:
Hi Daniel,
You can't do that in Ardour? I've honestly never tried to do any 5.1
work, but I imagine that even if you had to go outboard for the mix,
it wouldn't be that hard. I guess they're doing what they think is
best. But I think that their decision might be based on something
other than a lack of open audio tools. I'm probably biased... ;-)
-Mike
On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Daniel James<daniel(a)64studio.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
>> But there are so many good, open audio tools... as we know.
> I understand that one roadblock with previous projects was the need for a
> 5.1 mixdown of the soundtrack.
real men use ambisonics ;)
for the unwashed masses, they pre-render to 5.1.
ardour can do the former today, and ambdec will take care of the latter.
i'd be willing to join the effort - if somebody else produces the
content itself, i can help with mastering to surround. it would be 5.0,
though. imnsho, the .1 is one of the stupidest ideas ever...
7:20 p.m.
On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 10:50:00PM +0200, Jörn Nettingsmeier wrote:
real men use ambisonics ;)
for the unwashed masses, they pre-render to 5.1.
Right.
ardour can do the former today, and ambdec will take
care of the latter.
i'd be willing to join the effort - if somebody else produces the
content itself, i can help with mastering to surround. it would be 5.0,
though. imnsho, the .1 is one of the stupidest ideas ever...
The .1 or LFE channel is for Low Frequency Effects such as
bombs going off at a distance that implies you won't hear
them (or anything else afterwards). It is supposed to have
10 dB more gain than the other channels at the reproduction
side.
It's *not* supposed to contain the LF part of the 5.0 signals.
If the 5.0 speakers are too small to reproduce any LF and need
the subwoofer to do that then this is taken care of at the
receiver end.
So indeed you don't need the .1 except for a type of effect
that is unlikely to be required in this case.
--
FA
Io lo dico sempre: l'Italia è troppo stretta e lunga.
8:43 p.m.
i'd be willing to join the effort - if somebody
else produces the
content itself, i can help with mastering to surround.
What kind of content are they looking for? I thought they didn't
advertise needing help and got someone else to do the sound for the
previous two films. I'd be glad to help, where I can. Content is
probably where I'd be the most help.
-Mike
2009/6/14 Jörn Nettingsmeier <nettings(a)folkwang-hochschule.de>de>:
mike clemow wrote:
--
http://michaelclemow.com
http://semiotech.org
Hi Daniel,
You can't do that in Ardour? I've honestly never tried to do any 5.1
work, but I imagine that even if you had to go outboard for the mix,
it wouldn't be that hard. I guess they're doing what they think is
best. But I think that their decision might be based on something
other than a lack of open audio tools. I'm probably biased... ;-)
-Mike
On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 5:23 AM, Daniel James<daniel(a)64studio.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
>> But there are so many good, open audio tools... as we know.
> I understand that one roadblock with previous projects was the need for a
> 5.1 mixdown of the soundtrack.
real men use ambisonics ;)
for the unwashed masses, they pre-render to 5.1.
ardour can do the former today, and ambdec will take care of the latter.
i'd be willing to join the effort - if somebody else produces the
content itself, i can help with mastering to surround. it would be 5.0,
though. imnsho, the .1 is one of the stupidest ideas ever...
15 Jun
15 Jun
7:15 a.m.
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:43:38 -0400, mike clemow <gelfmuse(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Some clarification on my first email : I never said they were looking for
people, in fact they already have people for audio it seems (Jan
Morgenstern). Looking at the content of his studio, it's certainly not a
FLOSS-oriented choice (http://www.wavemage.com/studio-en.html)... My point
was, why isn't the Linux Audio community involved ?
We have all the necessary tools, they have ways to find people to produce
content... We should be able to extend those blender projects to reach
further than only blender. Let me explain : one of the goals of those
Blender projects is improving the functionalities of Blender by initiating
a professional grade project and getting feedback from the artists actually
working on it. IMHO, the Linux Audio community could greatly benefit from a
similar process.
Now, it's probably too late for this years project, the question is : what
do we do for next year, how do we do that, and when do we start ?
Opinions ?
Ico, do you read me ?
--
Marc-Olivier Barre
XMPP ID : marco(a)marcochapeau.org
www.MarcOChapeau.org
i'd be
willing to join the effort - if somebody else produces the
content itself, i can help with mastering to surround.
What kind of content are they looking for? I thought they didn't
advertise needing help and got someone else to do the sound for the
previous two films. I'd be glad to help, where I can. Content is
probably where I'd be the most help. 
7:56 a.m.
Hi Marc-Olivier,
Now, it's probably too late for this years project
If the Blender team's soundtrack mixer made mix stems available, there
could still be a linuxaudio.org remix contest. The final Durian DVD
could be mastered with alternative soundtracks, potentially.
It would be great to have our member Harrison Consoles involved; they
have a strong interest in film audio mixing and have also contributed to
the Ardour project.
This contest could pave the way for a full Free Software soundtrack
production in future. I agree that projects of this nature are a good
way to find out what the applications really need.
I don't think the 5.1 LFE channel can be ignored, it's really essential
in digital cinema for the Kaboom! of action movies. The current
limitation with GNU/Linux is not necessarily the AC-3 encoding, it's
having an automated 5.1 panning system in your software mixer. Harrison
has a motorised and touch sensitive surround panning joystick on its
Trion control surface. It would be nice to have an affordable USB
version of that :-)
http://www.harrisonconsoles.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&tas…
Cheers!
Daniel
16 Jun
16 Jun
6:19 a.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Marc-Olivier Barre wrote:
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:43:38 -0400, mike clemow
<gelfmuse(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
Some clarification on my first email : I never said they were looking for
people, in fact they already have people for audio it seems (Jan
Morgenstern). Looking at the content of his studio, it's certainly not a
FLOSS-oriented choice (http://www.wavemage.com/studio-en.html)... My point
was, why isn't the Linux Audio community involved ?
I concur that we should get involved.
I talked with Ton from the Blender foundation a year ago and he was very
very interested in using FLOSS tools for that process. However..
i'd
be willing to join the effort - if somebody else produces the
content itself, i can help with mastering to surround.
What kind of content are
they looking for? I thought they didn't
advertise needing help and got someone else to do the sound for the
previous two films. I'd be glad to help, where I can. Content is
probably where I'd be the most help. We have all the necessary tools,
I don't think that's true. The two main remaining issues are 'good
soundfonts' especially for the Orchestra of movie soundtracks.
5.1 mixing is the second problem.
The latter is not necessarily a show-stopper. To mix-down one usually
hires a cinema dediated to mixing/mastering, with appropriate equipment.
- At least that's what I did for the film-soundtracks I've done with LA
and the blender foundation seems to be able to afford that.
they have ways to find people to produce
content...
That is (or was) not the main point of Blender's goals. They want(ed) to
push their 3D/Video engine and hiring someone who does the complete
soundtrack was much easier for them. - But that's where LA could come it ;)
We should be able to extend those blender projects to
reach
further than only blender. Let me explain : one of the goals of those
Blender projects is improving the functionalities of Blender by initiating
a professional grade project and getting feedback from the artists actually
working on it. IMHO, the Linux Audio community could greatly benefit from a
similar process.
Now, it's probably too late for this years project, the question is : what
do we do for next year, how do we do that, and when do we start ?
Opinions ?
Ico, do you read me ?
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6:43 a.m.
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:19:33 +0200, Robin Gareus <robin(a)gareus.org> wrote:
Ok, let's admit we lack some tools. So does Blender as far as video
production is concerned ! That's the point actually. Each project brings
it's share of improvements to the software used for production.
And as far as soundfonts are concerned, last time I checked, the gig format
was supported in Linuxsampler... :p
;)
Certainly !
--
Marc-Olivier Barre
XMPP ID : marco(a)marcochapeau.org
www.MarcOChapeau.org
Marc-Olivier Barre wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:43:38 -0400, mike clemow <gelfmuse(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>> i'd be willing to join the effort - if somebody else produces the
>>> content itself, i can help with mastering to surround.
>> What kind of content are they looking for? I thought they didn't
>> advertise needing help and got someone else to do the sound for the
>> previous two films. I'd be glad to help, where I can. Content is
>> probably where I'd be the most help.
>
> Hi all,
>
> Some clarification on my first email : I never said they were looking
for
people, in
fact they already have people for audio it seems (Jan
Morgenstern). Looking at the content of his studio, it's certainly not a
FLOSS-oriented choice (http://www.wavemage.com/studio-en.html)... My
point
was, why isn't the Linux Audio community involved ?
I concur that we should get involved.
I talked with Ton from the Blender foundation a year ago and he was very
very interested in using FLOSS tools for that process. However..
We have all the necessary tools,
I don't think that's true. The two main remaining issues are 'good
soundfonts' especially for the Orchestra of movie soundtracks.
5.1 mixing is the second problem.
The latter is not necessarily a show-stopper. To mix-down one usually
hires a cinema dediated to mixing/mastering, with appropriate equipment.
- At least that's what I did for the film-soundtracks I've done with LA
and the blender foundation seems to be able to afford that. they have ways
to find people to produce
content...
That is (or was) not the main point of Blender's goals. They want(ed) to
push their 3D/Video engine and hiring someone who does the complete
soundtrack was much easier for them. - But that's where LA could come it
6:52 a.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Marc-Olivier Barre wrote:
;)
Certainly !
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 10:19:33 +0200, Robin Gareus
<robin(a)gareus.org> wrote:
Ok, let's admit we lack some tools. So does Blender as far as video
production is concerned ! That's the point actually. Each project brings
it's share of improvements to the software used for production.
And as far as soundfonts are concerned, last time I checked, the gig format
was supported in Linuxsampler... :p
..and who pays for the sounds? each participant of the contest?!?
Good quality film-orchestra sounds are a few thousand euros, which is
nevertheless still cheaper than hiring an orchestra ;)
For marzipanmovie.com I ended up recording a Quartett and did overdubs,
that worked quite well, but it was a hell lot of work editing.
Well, I don't know what Durian will be about, but there's of course the
option of an alternative - non classical - sound-track. A creative
sound-designer could orchestrate the whole thing in Csound or pure-data ;)
Marc-Olivier Barre wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 18:43:38 -0400, mike clemow <gelfmuse(a)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>> i'd be willing to join the effort - if somebody else produces the
>>> content itself, i can help with mastering to surround.
>> What kind of content are they looking for? I thought they didn't
>> advertise needing help and got someone else to do the sound for the
>> previous two films. I'd be glad to help, where I can. Content is
>> probably where I'd be the most help.
> Hi all,
>
> Some clarification on my first email : I never said they were looking
for
people,
in fact they already have people for audio it seems (Jan
Morgenstern). Looking at the content of his studio, it's certainly not a
FLOSS-oriented choice (http://www.wavemage.com/studio-en.html)... My
point
was, why isn't the Linux Audio community involved ?
I concur that we should
get involved.
I talked with Ton from the Blender foundation a year ago and he was very
very interested in using FLOSS tools for that process. However..
We have all the necessary tools,
I
don't think that's true. The two main remaining issues are 'good
soundfonts' especially for the Orchestra of movie soundtracks.
5.1 mixing is the second problem.
The latter is not necessarily a show-stopper. To mix-down one usually
hires a cinema dediated to mixing/mastering, with appropriate equipment.
- At least that's what I did for the film-soundtracks I've done with LA
and the blender foundation seems to be able to afford that. they have ways to find people to produce
content...
That is (or was) not the main point of Blender's goals. They
want(ed) to
push their 3D/Video engine and hiring someone who does the complete
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1:37 p.m.
Having had done film audio for a few months, I have to say it's a really
difficult task for free software to handle as of the current state (Ardour +
Xjadeo is not a solution).
Anyway, why not get together and provide THEM w/ content? The Blender team
wants to test their capabilities, and in order for LA to do the same, I
suggest taking the initiative first and offer something to someone instead
of waiting for an offer. I'm thinking sound design collaboration:
* Create a team (open to all LA subscribers and anyone interested in Linux +
Audio)
* Finalise registrants/team members (if you don't do this and decide to make
the whole thing informal there'll be trouble later on)
* Set up a Wiki with the tasks; each member puts their name down if they
want to undertake a task (eg. sound design for character so
and so, include a README of sort documenting the software used - can be a
logbook if you want)
* Set up a VCS repo so each member can commit his work, and it can be
reviewed and edited by others if required (perhaps a core committee; decided
upon during the registration finalising stage) eg.:
trunk
----| characters/
----------| john/
----------------| voiceover/
------------------------| vo_john_fulltake-4.5.wav
------------------------| vo_john_fulltake-4.5.txt
----------------| sounds/
------------------------| Intro/
------------------------------| cs_john_introWalking-1.0.wav
------------------------------| cs_john_introJumping-0.3.wav
------------------------------| cs_john_introWalking-1.0.txt
------------------------------| cs_john_introJumping-0.3.txt
------------------------| Undefined/
------------------------------| cs_john_midwayActions-1.4.wav
------------------------------| cs_john_midwayActions-1.4.txt
------------------------| scratchingHead/
------------------------------| cs_john_introScratch-0.1.wav
------------------------------| cs_john_midScratch-0.1.wav
------------------------------| cs_john_endScratch-0.3.wav
------------------------------| cs_john_scratchingHead-logbook.pdf
----------| doe/
----------------| voiceover/
----------| mary/
----------------| sounds/
----------| jane/
----| ambience/
----------| park/
----------| factory/
----------| weirdPlaceAtIntro/
----| music/
----------| soundtracks/
-----------------| intro/
-----------------| outro/
----------| background/
----| others/
----------| diegetic/
----------| non-diegetic/
17 Jun
17 Jun
8:12 a.m.
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:37:26 +0800, Ray Rashif <schivmeister(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Having had done film audio for a few months, I have to
say it's a really
difficult task for free software to handle as of the current state
(Ardour
+
Xjadeo is not a solution).
Well, Blender has it's own audio track... we could also try that out
Robin: btw, how's your ardour patch going ?
Anyway, why not get together and provide THEM w/
content? The Blender
team
wants to test their capabilities, and in order for LA
to do the same, I
suggest taking the initiative first and offer something to someone
instead
of waiting for an offer.
Indeed, taking the fight to them is probably better suited. But in this
case it would not be a matter of working on durian, but taking the former
projects and making our own audio ?
I'm thinking sound design collaboration:
* Create a team (open to all LA subscribers and anyone interested in
Linux
+
Audio)
* Finalise registrants/team members (if you don't do this and decide to
make
the whole thing informal there'll be trouble later on)
* Set up a Wiki with the tasks; each member puts their name down if they
want to undertake a task (eg. sound design for character so
and so, include a README of sort documenting the software used - can be a
logbook if you want)
* Set up a VCS repo so each member can commit his work, and it can be
reviewed and edited by others if required (perhaps a core committee;
decided
upon during the registration finalising stage) eg.:
That could work. Now, where do we host ?
ICO : HELLLLOOOOOO ???
(I'm trying hard to send a signal here :D)
--
Marc-Olivier Barre
XMPP ID : marco(a)marcochapeau.org
www.MarcOChapeau.org
8:34 a.m.
Hi Robin,
Well, I don't know what Durian will be about
It's a Japanese-style anime, I believe - "epic fantasy theme with lots
of action, monsters and a girl hero!"
but there's of course the
option of an alternative - non classical - sound-track.
Yep, I've just been watching Death Note anime volume 3 DVD and they've
gone for industrial metal/thrash/punk on the theme tunes, much heavier
than the earlier volumes. No cello :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_note
Cheers!
Daniel
12:25 p.m.
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Marc-Olivier Barre wrote:
There's a git repository and gitweb available on git.linuxaudio.org,
even though it's not been used for much yet.
Furthermore the wiki allows for personal pages. eg.
http://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/user/ppalmers
There's a GTD (getting things done) plugin for dokuwiki to schedule
tasks and organize collaborations. Surely it'll need some customizing
and a certainly a moderator who manages the project(s).
We're using < 20% of our bandwidth and download.linuxaudio.org currently
has ~100GB available. OTOH. archive.org would just as well be usable to
host the audio and project files.
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 23:37:26 +0800, Ray Rashif
<schivmeister(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
Why that? Ok, it is minimalistic, but a full-screen video monitor
synchronized to the soundtrack is quite sufficient. I've done a few film
soundtracks like that.
Having had done film audio for a few months, I
have to say it's a really
difficult task for free software to handle as of the current state
(Ardour
> +
> Xjadeo is not a solution). Well, Blender has it's own audio track... we could
also try that out
Robin: btw, how's your ardour patch going ?
Frozen in ice :-/ I'm too busy with work and don't have another film
project until the end of the year that would make scratch this itch.
Anyway, why
not get together and provide THEM w/ content? The Blender
team
wants to test their capabilities, and in order
for LA to do the same, I
suggest taking the initiative first and offer something to someone
instead
of waiting for an offer.
Indeed, taking the fight to them is probably better suited. But in this
case it would not be a matter of working on durian, but taking the former
projects and making our own audio ?
I'm thinking sound design collaboration:
* Create a team (open to all LA subscribers and anyone interested in
Linux
+
Audio)
* Finalise registrants/team members (if you don't do this and decide to
make
the whole thing informal there'll be trouble later on)
* Set up a Wiki with the tasks; each member puts their name down if they
want to undertake a task (eg. sound design for character so
and so, include a README of sort documenting the software used - can be a
logbook if you want)
* Set up a VCS repo so each member can commit his work, and it can be
reviewed and edited by others if required (perhaps a core committee;
decided
upon during the registration finalising stage) eg.:
That could work. Now, where do we host ? ICO : HELLLLOOOOOO ???
(I'm trying hard to send a signal here :D)
Yeah, Mr. linuxaudio.org, what do you think?
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consortium@lists.linuxaudio.org
16 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Daniel James -
Fons Adriaensen -
Jörn Nettingsmeier -
Marc-Olivier Barre -
mike clemow -
Ralph Giles -
Ray Rashif -
Robin Gareus