[LAU] Linkedin - Out
louigi.verona at gmail.com
Sat Jun 18 11:38:12 UTC 2016
You know, Set, I firmly believe in the necessity of dialog. A community
that can't handle challenges to the principles it is based upon is
intellectually dead. I hope this isn't true of the Free Software world.
As for emotions and hints at my indecency simply because I happen to work
somewhere or because I've raised a certain question is something that I've
been exposed to constantly as I started to promote science and critical
thinking. The anti-science crowd is much more vile than anything I've ever
seen on our mailinglist.
And as for whether it makes sense to bring such topics on this mailinglist,
I think that this is the only place where it makes sense to bring this up.
I want to be in the dialog with people who align with the ideology and who
can correct me - or confirm - some of my concerns. John's response to my
polite argumentation perfectly demonstrates that my concerns are not
Either way, if the message that some of us take from this thread that it is
better to just shut up if you do not agree with something is a message that
is unlikely to create a world envisioned by freedom loving people. A world
where any dissent is silenced, even at the level of a mailinglist
discussion, is incompatible with human well being.
On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 12:47 PM, Set Hallstrom <public at sakrecoer.com>
> On 2016-06-17 21:55, Louigi Verona wrote:
> > [snip] What is a more reasonable assumption - that they are all paid
> > and decide to just shut up or that there is really nothing fishy
> > going on?
> well, as you say, there is no larger consiparacy. Yes i can install
> the dev-plugs in my browser and maybe understand what is happening with
> my cookies. Is this information available for all? Are we actively
> working on helping the world understand the tools that runs society? I
> doubt the world as come to understand it's own interest in that.
> However, there is no commited crime if everyone is fine with what
> happens, and as i read in quote bellow, to you it is perfectly normal to
> gather most information about anyone, as long as there is no
> human-readable name attached:
> > [snip] Data that is custom is typically standard stuff that you can
> > see in the pdf I linked to above - gender, age, country, user
> > segments. It can also be some parameters that are used to understand
> > how likely a user is to click on an ad and how likely he is to buy
> > something or register on a website and whatnot.
> For me, if this is normal, than i'm happy to wear a tinfoil hat. As I
> see it, translated to the real world it would be as accepting to have an
> agent coming with me when i speak in privacy with my mother just in case
> i would mention what i am working on and what tools i use or what my
> favourit food is. This agent would follow me into every store i visit,
> taking note of things i buy to analyze what may have attracted me. Oh,
> wait, that is already how credit cards operate...
> > With your help, I am learning about your concerns. But I also hope
> > that my experience and information can help someone else as well.
> That is good, and i hope you will come in with a different angle next
> time. As the thread teach us, pointing fingers and calling out "free
> software alarmist propaganda" on a freesoftware-list isn't particularly
> helpful. At best you create the polemic and the emotional reaction you
> try to detach yourself from, at worst you lock yourself out behind that
> wall of emotions keeping you from being listened to.
> My point here is that in /practice/ there is no difference between a
> freesoftware OS, mac or win. Mac and windows works really good for what
> is it meant to do. The major difference between "them" and FLOSS is on
> the ethical level. Of course this being a fundamental difference, it
> affects how things work and how they are being developed, because from a
> societal POV it is a disruptive difference affecting how the tools
> operate on an economical level, and the economy is the direct expression
> of power in the contemporary society. No matter how inclusive,
> proprietary-OS-friendly, tolerant and helpful you want to be, if you
> have no regards for the fundamentally political distinction this is, you
> will come off as a simple detractor: these differences in how
> intellectual propriety operates that are outlined by FLOSS directly
> deals with how the power is distributed in our ever more
> digital-societies. A factor that is vowed to attract (not only of
> course) people who have had enough with how the norm is defined. And
> this is what i for one read in the (perhaps clumsy) exclamations as the
> one Will Godfrey formulated: Give us change!
> A Bonne Entendeur,
> Set Sakrecoer
> Linux-audio-user mailing list
> Linux-audio-user at lists.linuxaudio.org
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