[LAU] Full-featured mixers

[Tim]

On 4/1/19 3:41 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Mar 2019 23:58:13 -0700 (PDT), Len Ovens wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Apr 2019, Tim wrote:
>>> Another user pointed out that ALSA may not be the answer for all
>>>   cards and may even get some things incorrect whereas a dedicated
>>>   mixer might not. And said "usually class compliant USB devices don't
>>>   have alsamixer volume controls".
>>
>> They can, but in general, if the USB device has physical controls,
>> then it has no need for alsa controls (there are no computer
>> controlable controls in any OS). Many USB audio chipsets (or maybe I
>> should say cheap chipsets) just do the audio with no controls. I think
>> there is a complient way of doing controls, but that may not deal with
>> more complex routing. It seems the thing these days is to make the
>> audio interface double as a digital mixer to help it actually sell for
>> the higher price asked. I don't think USB2.0 covers such a use.
> 
> Hi,
> 
> sorry for writing off-list, but the D* who runs this list banned me
> for absolutely no reason, see [1].
> 
> I already replied off-list to Tim [2], since he quoted what I've
> written at the jack mailing list.

No problem.
Your points brought me "back down to earth".

For some reason I thought ALSA could handle every card.
And that therefore every distro should have some great
  ALSA mixer like Qas. All problems solved.

But it's more complicated than that, as you say.

Again, I guess I just feel sad if some user goes away
  disappointed. I (and all of us) always try to help people,
  even newbies, have a good experience with Linux audio.

With MusE we try to make it friendly but with power behind it.
I want everyone to have a good experience and have fun.


> 
> Actually the 18i20 provides potentiometers for the 8 analog input
> channels and for 2 of them additionally "pad" switches, but it only
> provides output potentiometers for the two headphone outputs and for 2
> channels aimed as monitor output, which is quite useless without access
> to the hardware IO routing.
> 
> The ADAT device I'm using provides input level potentiometers, but no
> ouput level control.
> 
> The RME HDSPE has got no input level control at all and some
> microphones, e.g. the Brauner VM1 have their own output "pad" switch.
> 
> Nobody who has got a halfway professional workflow needs a level control
> at all stages.
> 
> I'm anyway using the Behringer replica of the mixing console Len does
> use. Btw. a friend owns an old revision of the Mackie. I didn't compare
> the audio quality directly, but at least I can say two thing. The
> Mackie is way noisier than the Behringer, but the Mackie provides more
> space between the potentiometers, so it's more pleasant to handle and
> easier to clean. I do understand that people wish to get rid of a
> mixing console. A friend likes to lend me a huge mixer, better than the
> small Mackie, Behringer and Co. mixing consoles, but I don't have the
> room for a huge mixer.

Yes, I was saying that I have a mixer sitting in a box,
  but my relatively simpler needs are such that my ten-channel
  delta1010 card pretty much does all of that for me.
I should put an analog compressor/limiter ahead of the card,
  but I'm so used to playing/recording without it.

T.

> 
> Regards,
> Ralf
> 
> [1]
> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-user/2019-February/111637.html
> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-user/2019-February/111642.html
> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-user/2019-February/111662.html
> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-user/2019-February/111663.html
> The complete thread is available by
> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-user/2019-February/
> 
> [2]
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2019 07:06:26 +0200
> From: Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf at alice-dsl.net>
> To: Tim <termtech at rogers.com>
> Subject: Re: [LAU] Full-featured mixers
> 
> 
> On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 00:07:41 -0400, Tim wrote:
>> And said "usually class compliant USB devices don't have alsamixer
>> volume controls".
> 
> Hi,
> 
> for some audio devices even the revision could make a difference.
> 
> The claims regarding the Scarlett 18i20, see
> https://lists.linuxaudio.org/archives/linux-audio-user/2019-March/111865.html
> are incorrect for the 2nd generation. IOW the 18i20 that is actually
> sold and works up to 192kHz isn't supported as described. It might work
> for second-hand 18i20 of the 1st generation that supports up to 96kHz.
> 
> Regards,
> Ralf
>