[linux-audio-dev] Re: is this, or this not, RTP

Ah. Silly me. "so, where are the products?" (referring to RTP and RTCP). Silly author. Expecting people to productize[sic] publically owned protocols.

------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 14:58:38 +0000 From: Steve Harris <S.W.Harris(a)ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] is this, or this not, RTP? To: "The Linux Audio Developers' Mailing List" <linux-audio-dev(a)music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20040226145838.GD14603(a)login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 09:33:25AM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: I guess he was talking about routers and the like, in 2001 there weren't any that I know of, now there are plenty, eg: http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/routers/ps221/ - Steve ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:00:07 -0500 From: Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] [ANN] Website To: "The Linux Audio Developers' Mailing List" <linux-audio-dev(a)music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200402261500.i1QF07P6008166(a)dhin.linuxaudiosystems.com> absolutely! i'm calling off my talk so we can spend extra time listening to Aeolus perform. incredible work! --p ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 16:03:11 +0100 From: kloschi <linux-lists(a)web.de> Subject: [linux-audio-dev] Announcement: Camp Music 2004, techlab, call for participiants/exhibitors To: A list for linux aduio developers <linux-audio-dev(a)music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20040226160311.3b2060ea(a)magrathea.funk.subsignal.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Hi list, we are doing the camp music, a festival for electronic music on 14.o5.-15.o5.2oo4 in the 'motorpark' near magdeburg [germany]. this event includes a usual festival with 2 stages and additionally a forum for musicians and independent labels [labelforum] and also the so called 'techlab'. techlab will be a place where music-software and -hardware producers show their [new] stuff, give workshops and so on. So far companies like native instruments and emagic and some more commercial manufacturers/developers will show up. I would also like to invite free software developers with showable products, to present and give workshops, to introduce musicians and producers in the possibilities of the free software world. please contact me _soon_ at kloschi(a)seekers-event.com or kloschi(a)subsignal.org feel free to forward this announcement. kloschi ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 10:04:47 -0500 From: Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Freeze? To: "The Linux Audio Developers' Mailing List" <linux-audio-dev(a)music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200402261504.i1QF4lwA008182(a)dhin.linuxaudiosystems.com> remember: freezing has no merits at all unless you need to save CPU cycles. the problem is that in a typical DAW session, you can potentially freeze most tracks most of the time. so how can you tell what the user wants frozen and what they don't? More importantly, freezing consumes significant disk resources. Can you afford to do this without it being initiated by the user? A typical 24 track Ardour session might consume 4-18GB of audio. Freezing all or most of it will double that disk consumption (and its not exactly what you would call quick, either :) thus, either you have s/w smart enough to figure out what to freeze and then do it, which does not come without certain costs, or the user has to play a significant role in the process. sorry, but i don't think so. if i have a bus that is channelling audio in from an external device (say, a h/w sampler), you cannot possibly freeze it. --p ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 15:17:31 +0000 From: Steve Harris <S.W.Harris(a)ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Freeze? To: "The Linux Audio Developers' Mailing List" <linux-audio-dev(a)music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <20040226151731.GG14603(a)login.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 10:04:47AM -0500, Paul Davis wrote: No, but you can do it (semi-)transparently when the user presses play. I dont know if that would be acceptable or not, but if you imagine adding a few effeects, auditioning, rinse, repeat it might work out ok. I'd always go for more CPU if possible - I'm not a huge fan of multiple code paths :) - Steve ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 09:06:59 -0600 From: Benjamin Flaming <lad(a)solobanjo.com> Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Freeze? To: "The Linux Audio Developers' Mailing List" <linux-audio-dev(a)music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200402260906.59583.lad(a)solobanjo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" On Thursday 26 February 2004 09:04 am, Paul Davis wrote: I want my plug-ins frozen the instant I close the parameter editor. ;) Agreed, it's a very definite trade-off - storage space for CPU cycles. It is my observation, however, that storage space is cheap, and readilly available. However, buses which simply contain a submix of several audio tracks can be safely frozen, saving both processing power and disk bandwidth. The purpose of my project is to create a working environment which encourages songs to be organized in such a way that offline rendering can *usually* be done transparently. Thus, the hierarchal tree structure. When I finish comping the vocals for a chorus, I want to be left with 1 fader, and 1 editable audio track, for the chorus. If I need to make one of the voices softer, I can bring up the underlying tracks within a second (which is *at least* how long it usually takes me to find a single fader in a 48-channel mix). While I'm making adjustments, Tinara will read all the separate chorus tracks off the disk, mixing them in RT. When I move back one layer in the mix hierarchy (thereby indicating that I'm finish adjusting things), Tinara will begin re-rendering the submix in the background whenever the transport is idle. When the re-rendering is done, Tinara will go back to pulling a single interleaved stereo track off the disk, instead of 6-8 mono tracks. The basic idea is to turn mixing into a process of simplification. When I'm finishing up a mix, I don't want to deal with a mess of tracks and buses, with CPU power and disk bandwidth being given to things I haven't changed in days. I want to be able to focus on the particular element or submix that I'm fine-tuning - and have as much DSP power to throw at it as possible. This will also make the use of automated control surfaces much nicer, IMHO. Since there will be fewer elements in each layer of the hierarchy, fewer faders would be needed. Additionally, it would be easier to keep track of what's going on. I've worked extensively with Digi Design's Control|24, and my feeling is that things start to get messy when there are more than about 12 faders (not to mention how easy it is to get lost when there are two or more banks of 24 faders!). Just for the record, please understand that any negativity I may express toward conventional DAW systems is *not* directed toward Ardour. It's just pent-up frustration with Pro Tools ;) |) |)enji ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 11:25:33 -0500 From: Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Freeze? To: "The Linux Audio Developers' Mailing List" <linux-audio-dev(a)music.columbia.edu> Message-ID: <200402261625.i1QGPXbe015706(a)dhin.linuxaudiosystems.com> oh, you don't want to do any graphical editing of plugin parameter automation? :)) not my experience. sure, but thats a subset of all busses. its not a bus per se. have you actually experienced how long it takes to "re-render"? steve's suggestion is an interesting one (use regular playback to render), but it seems to assume that the user will play the session from start to finish. if you're mixing, the chances are that you will be playing bits and pieces of of the session. so when do you get a chance to re-render? are you going to tie up disk bandwidth and CPU cycles while the user thinks they are just editing? OK, so you do it when the transport is idle - my experience is that you won't be done rendering for a long time, and you're also going to create a suprising experience for the user at some point - CPU utilization will vary notable over time, in ways that the user can't predict. you also seem to assume that the transport being stopped implies no audio streaming by the program. in ardour (and most other DAWs), this simply isn't true. ardour's CPU utilization doesn't vary very much whether the transport is idle or not, unless you have a lot of track automation, in which case it will go up a bit when rolling. the focusing part seems great, but seems to be more of a GUI issue than a fundamental backend one. it would be quite easy in ardour, for example, to have a way to easily toggle track+strip views rather than display them all. the DSP power part seems like a good idea, but i think its much, much more difficult than you are anticipating. i've been wrong many times before though. and btw, the reason Ardour looks a lot like PT is that it makes it accessible to many existing users. whether or not ardour's internal design looks like PT, i don't know. i would hope that ardour's development process has allowed us to end up with a much more powerful and flexible set of internal objects that can allow many different models for editing, mixing and so forth to be constructed. the backend isn't particularly closely connected in any sense, including the object level, to the GUI. --p ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ linux-audio-dev mailing list linux-audio-dev(a)music.columbia.edu http://music.columbia.edu/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev End of linux-audio-dev Digest, Vol 5, Issue 57 **********************************************