24 Jun
2009
24 Jun
'09
10:05 a.m.
I dunno if you're a coder too, but those words you wrote are the words
of a user :).
By the way I'm a fan of extremes, I like KDE (only with KWin) ex 3.5.9
and Ion2, but actually I'm running GNOME and this also has is advantages
and disadvantages.
Do you agree that a dual or multi boot might be the best solution to fit
to all needs?
I would interpret your mail this way. You didn't blame any sound server,
but you make out for which usage you are fine with which sound server.
Am I wrong?
The 'palm pre' thread is uncoupled from the origin thread, that's why I
guess it's okay to speak about user needs here, nobody will disturb any
technical expert knowledge discussion at the original thread.
By the way, an rt-audio distro like 64 Studio often works OOB for
rt-audio too, not for my hardware, but it is made to fit to many
hardware combinations.
Thank you for reporting your experiences.
Cheers,
Ralf
James Warden wrote:
Just a small comment, and then I shut up:
the great thing about linux is its flexibility. I have a few boxes at home doing
different things:
- a multimedia server based on mythtv, NFS and samba
- a powerful DAW running an RT patched kernel
- a couple of laptops for AOB (any other business)
For the AOB laptops, it was nice not to do anything once I installed the distro. Things
worked OOB, and that was it.
For the DAW or multimedia server, that was another story ... but simply because
customized systems require, well, customization. The all-in-one distro is and I think will
remain a utopia.
This said, I recently upgraded my DAW to KDE 4.2 (was 3.5.9 before upgrade) and that
automatically installed pulseaudio. I had already fiddled around with pulseaudio about a
year ago due to my using VirtualBox (another story). I found pulse's features kinda
cool and I quickly understood it was not meant as a replacement or alternative to Jack.
As of today, my DAW has pulseaudio installed. But all I had to do was:
- open the KDE system settings
- disable ALL sound stuff I could find
So basically, KDE offered me the possibility to not interact at all with the sound layer.
It was obviously not a default setting but it was just a few clicks away.
So let me be straight: it should remain like that.
On average, a user installing e.g. KDE will expect desktop sounds to work (sound
notifications, mp3 players, DVD playback, what-not). That's not what I want in my DAW
at all but being myself an old linux "power user", I knew that it would do that
(experience with artsd). I mean, how could the KDE installation possibly know that it was
to be running on a DAW ?! :D
I am glad the desktop config interface allowed me to configure it the way I wanted (no
extra special services in the background, no sound system other than what I want for my
DAW).
Now, if things were to change (no longer the possibility to configure e.g. KDE the way I
want), I would definitely feel pissed-off and complain on some mailing lists. But
let's be also clear: pulseaudio is definitely NOT the worst things that could happen.
It works fine on my laptops, I don't need to do anything about it and that's what
it was intended for: a generic and multifeatured desktop sound system. But desktops are
also used in other contexts (e.g. DAW) and it would really be wise to keep desktop
components _optional_ (not only sound system but also visual effects, etc). That's
just simple wisdom and i suggest we keep it that way. The same applies to jack. It is a
highly specialized tool and should remain so.
OK, time to disappear from this discussion.
Cheers,
J.
--- On Wed, 6/24/09, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net> wrote:
--
Secret of Tux:
http://images.wallaceandgromit.com/user_uploads/forum_thumbnails/5/75/355.j…
"Gromit bit me" says HMV dog:
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/03_03/GomitHMVPA_468x319.jpg
From: Ralf Mardorf
<ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>
Subject: Re: [LAD] palm pre [was Re: [ANNOUNCE] Safe real-time on thedesktop by default;
Desktop/audio RT developers, read this!]
To: "james morris" <james(a)jwm-art.net>
Cc: linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 6:45 AM
james morris wrote:
by Fons and others,
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
On 24/6/2009, "Patrick Shirkey"
<pshirkey(a)boosthardware.com>
wrote:
> It would be helpful if things that could make a
>
big impact will
> continued to be discussed within the LAD
>
community. However this is a
> difficult situation. No matter if the
discussions
>
are starting prior to
> implementation or post implementation the
general
>
direction of the
> arguments tend to be quite emotional.
>
> Is it just because audio guys have a bit more
>
artistic temperament than
most
other developers?
I don't think this adds much to what has been stated
but perhaps it explains a little?
I'm not a hardcore audio developer like most of the
guys here, but I've
been making audio/music/noise, and coding, since
the
days of 486sx25s
and windows 3.1. Back then, and for many years
after,
it was a real
concern to be able to disable as many irrelevant
(to
audio) processes in
the system as possible (as I'm sure
you're aware).
Now I have a pretty capable system, but when I want to
run RT audio apps
I still want to disable as many irrelevant
processes
on the system as I
can.
For this reason I really dislike the big monolithic
desktop environments.
There are several applications tied into them
(some
serious, plain
useful, or just fun) which I'd love to have
working
but which force me
to install all sorts of software I really
don't want
or need - along
with all sorts of processes running in the
background.
So it feels a bit freedom eroding. The choice
seems to
be between a
system which 'just works' but which
wastes system
resources on things
I don't want, or a system which I have to
spend hours
setting up,
constantly have to deal with the idiosyncrasies
of,
but which is as fast
and powerful as it could be.
The notions of old, to raise the potential for system
resources to be
only used for the job at hand (ie audio) are
still
strongly rooted and
people don't like it when they feel their
freedom to
use systems in
this way is threatened by forcing them to install
software and have
running processes they don't want.
James.
I guess (if needed) separating rt and bread-and-butter
Linux by having a
dual-boot is an acceptable solution. A user with nearly no
knowledge
could install a comfortable distro for the everyday desktop
environment
and another for real-time usage. Even if somebody don't
have any trouble
with his Linux install, he might wish to have a safe Linux
for
productions and another Linux to have fun and fun sometimes
means to
risk things, you won't risk for a installation that needs
to be stable
all the time, that's why a dual-boot has also an advantage,
if there
will be a joint venture for distro/ desktop developers and
rt
hardliners. I have a bad mobo and for rt e.g. I need to set
irq priority
for especially the one port where the MIDI is connected to.
I don't
think things like that should be done by the desktop
environment. This
seems to be impossible.
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