8 Apr
2005
8 Apr
'05
6:56 p.m.
Hi,
I think a part of the conversation I had with Con Kolivas may be of
interest here:
<jmspeex> I still don't understand why this [unprivileged real-time]
hasn't gone in the kernel a long time ago.
<con> demand
<con> noone demands it
<con> no distro needs it
<con> no market for it
<con> noone coded it
<con> all of the above
<jmspeex> con: Everyone doing audio demands it, perhaps just no on lkml
<con> jmspeex we talked about this; the developers think they know what
users want
<jmspeex> Just look at how many people are complaining about audio skips
<con> jmspeex where? I see none
<con> what audio skips?
<con> find me a report anywhere that shows a properly configured 2.6
system is skipping audio even with a mainline kernel
<con> the demand for real time is from the professional audio people
which there are but few
<jmspeex> con: Search for "xmms" and "skip", or
"jackd" and "xrun"
<con> ordinary desktop users get good enough low latency out of normal
scheduling
<con> jackd xrun != audio skipping on normal desktop usage
<jmspeex> con: In my case, I needed your patch just so I could play and
record at the same time on an 8-chan card.
<con> aah record
<con> that's not normal desktop usage
<con> see what I'm getting at?
<con> you're claiming it is required for ordinary audio playback
<con> it is most definitely not required for ordinary audio playback
<jmspeex> con: There's more people doing serious audio than you may
think.
<con> jmspeex ok now you're at the crux of the problem
<jmspeex> Most people perhaps don't know what to do about it.
<con> the crux of the problem is the potential userbase is not well
known
[...]
<con> a tiny bit of history for you - when the realtime LSM got knocked
back for the professional audio people, I stepped up and defined what
they needed, and offered to create what they needed...
<con> that's when I started coding up the SCHED_ISO work
[...]
<con> jmspeex since lkml is so hopeless as a forum for that sort of
thing, feel free to start an online petition to show how many people
there are. 1 of 2 things will happen - 1. you'll have thousands signing
up, or 2. there are less people doing it than you think
Jean-Marc
Le vendredi 08 avril 2005 à 16:28 -0400, Lee Revell a écrit :
On Fri, 2005-04-08 at 16:14 -0400, Jean-Marc Valin
wrote:
--
Jean-Marc Valin <Jean-Marc.Valin(a)USherbrooke.ca>
Université de Sherbrooke
As far as I see it, we'll at least get
listened to by Con, Ingo and
Andrew Morton. I've had a long discussion with Con recently and from his
point of view, the problem is that not enough people ask (loud enough)
for such features. For instance, I'm still the first and only user of
his real-time patch.
I think many of the kernel developers have fallen into the trap of only
listening to the distros on the assumption that if enough users want
something that they'll hear from RedHat or SuSE. Clearly this is
necessary to some extent, as the distros have to filter out the
actionable bug reports, etc., and works for 99% of what users want, but
the other 1% who use a specialized distro that does not have kernel
hackers on the payroll have a hard time getting heard.
But they will listen if people make enough noise on the mailing list.
Lee