Linux-audio-dev June 2004

linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org

99 participants
93 discussions

by urban schlemmer

hi@all (and sorry if this is gonna be a new thread) >I think the clicks in most mouse wheels would make it >unsuitable for >manipulating audio controls. no, wrong answer. i work with sequoia und every `click' shifts volume 0,3dB. perfect handling even for life mixes. urban http://www.nusurf.at/

21 years

[linux-audio-dev] [OT] marketing hype

by Marek Peteraj

Paul: > <paul returns from a week away> > % f +gtk-in > % rmm cur-last > % f +gtkmm-in > % rmm cur-last > % f +new > % rmm `pick -from wine-devel` > % rmm `pick -from xdg-list` > and then i can put all those commands in script and next time just do: > % clean-mail >that's what i call a mail client. And this is exactly what explains the clutter in ardour UI. Sorry Paul, but this is your way of handling email. My way of choosing and using email clients(and other apps) is simply driven by the same needs most users have. To read, write and manage email easily. I just want to fetch my emails, click twice to respond to them, perhaps...hmm backup my mboxes so that i can import them next time with two other clicks? The only advanced feature i'm using is filters perhaps. And that's just setting up a filter so that i don't care next time, and it's damn easy in evolution. One thing you might all consider as stupid. I need it black on white to concentrate. And 19th century ncurses is driving me crazy. And yes, i'm using linux audio, using gentoo, compiling packages from sources, running jack, configuring all that stuff etc etc. Fons: > There seems to be a belief that computers and software would eleminate > the > need for education and training, that sitting at a DAW turns you > instantly > into a sound engineer, But knowing the features of a DAW isn't *at *all* the only thing you need to know in *order* to be a sound engineer. And the less it takes up the better for the rest of the things a sound engineer has to *know* in order to be a good sound engineer. > and clicking the mouse on soft synth makes you > a qualified musician. It *never* did, *even* with *tons* of perfect win/mac software. All tools there only. > This is a complete fallacy, and IMHO just one > manifestation of the global dumbing-down exercise that's happening all > around us, and that is driven by those who make money out of it. So you call not removing disturbing non-efficient and stupid UI designs which make your life harder and all that -- fallacy and dumbing-down?? :) Certain things i just don't get into my head and probably never will: * Why do some people here believe that centralising information, encouraging standards and trying to make some "proprietary/pro"-grade oss software is going to take your freedom of choice? Suppose we have say 6 different applications (DAW, drummachine, sampler, you name it)that perfecly compete with proprietary world. Does *that* take the freedom of choice? Does encouraging of toolkits(we've got two major ones) take your freedom? Did jack take your freedom to make your own audio server? No. Why? Two words - *Open* *Source* The only thing that's going to happen is that *most* users will use those 6 applications in a (what people tend to call here) dumb environment. And those users haven't even arrived here yet. Because they are the *real* non-technical users. The rest can fiddle around with configurations and code as much as they can. Not(!) so in win32 and to some extent also on mac. Can you tweak evolution code-wise? sure you can. Can you just go ahead with your own client? sure you can. Can you pick your favorite toolkit or make your own? Sure you can. But why do i have to install 280+ toolkits in order to use linux audio? Last note - i might be a dick, but i'm honest. Marek

21 years

[linux-audio-dev] linux use (was [OT] marketing hype)

by vanDongen/Gilcher

Well as a profesional linux user (music is my dayjob) I can maybe describe some of the things that make linux much more productive for me than mac or windows. Jack is one of the key points. (with alsa sequencer but midi loopback is not unique, the mac has had that for ages) Workspaces and keyboard control in the window manager is another. As you say, making a production involves a lot of different pieces of software and/or equipment. I work mainly in software these days, but there are always some things easier with outboard stuff. So I need many different programs, and the fact that they can all talk to each other is great, because ,even on the mac, you always need that one small utility to fix a little thing, do a special effect etc. For instance, I had to do some songs for a children's theatre show (music for the elephant, the crocodile on the train etc). It was so nice to edit the score in rosegarden (which has pretty nice score entry) send it as midi to fluidsynth and hydrogen and record it into ardour which has the best editing/mixing facilities. I can quickly make a special special-effect in csound and run parts of a session through that, never having to quit this, start that, make batches so etc. So unless you are willing to stick with one mega-application (logic or cubase), and I have never been able to, linux is more productive in this way. The other thing that makes linux more productive for me is the windowmanager I am using: ion, a tabbed/tiled window manager which I would like to promote here as one of the most productivity enhancing piece of software I know. It is unorthodox, but it manages your windows instead of cluttering the desktop. No icons, no eyecandy. Takes getting used to, but I never ever have to hunt for a window hidden underneath somewhere, or find it on the toolbar or the thingy OSX has now (a seperate program that shows all windows in minature so you can click where you want to go). Instead I have the screens (dual head) seperated into tiles, I can navigate with my keyboard to whatever window I want, I optimize screen real-estate, so it is much easier to show many different plugin windows f.i. etc.. etc.. But I have worked a only little bit on OSX and I found it very annoying, ridiculous special effects, a toolbar that pops up,no extra workspaces to order your apps. Way to much fluff. In conclusion, I can say that I could probably make the endresult, the music, on any system, but that I can do it quicker and more to my liking on linux. But I am not your average user probably, I code sometimes as a hobby and I like looking at the internals. Gerard On Friday 11 June 2004 09:01, linux-audio-dev-request(a)music.columbia.edu From: Tim Orford <tim(a)orford.org> > i dont mean to be aggressive, i'm just really intrigued to > know how people get any music done. There is never any talk on > this list or LAU about real software usage or workflows etc. > > for most people its not enough just to be able to do something, > it has to be doable without impacting productivity or creativity. > > my personal experience is this: Music production is now an > integrated process where the synthesis, composition, programming, > recording, arrangement, and mixing of music overlap and everything > is editable at all stages. I guess i'm biased by my own desires and > studio experiences, but i do beleive this is what the majority of > people want. > > such a system is not acheivable by bedroom hackers, it requires > some cooperation and organisation. Currently all we have are > the supporting peripherals (synths, editors, fx). > > is there really noone here who is seriously interested in this? -- electronic & acoustic musics-- http://www.xs4all.nl/~gml

21 years

[linux-audio-dev] Buffer size settings - Mac/Windows

by Michael Ost

Hi. Does anyone out there know what the audio buffer size settings in Windows and MacOS really mean? If you say "128 samples" does that translate to 2 buffers of 128 samples --- one buffer playing, one buffer filling --- or 2 buffers of 64 samples? Is it 256 samples of latency or 128? I realize this isn't _exactly_ a Linux audio question, but perhaps someone out there knows something about this. We're trying to get an apples to apples comparison of our Linux/ALSA based system with a Windows/MacOS system. We set the ALSA driver to 2x128 and we get results that jibe more with the 256 setting in Windows. But when we hooked a Windows system up to a scope it looked more like the 128 sample setting was running 2x64 samples. So... we're confused. Any pearls of wisdom out there? ... mo =================================== Michael Ost, Software Architect Muse Research, Inc. most(a)museresearch.com

21 years

[linux-audio-dev] Sliders 2

by Thorsten Wilms

Hi! Worked out a design for fan-sliders: http://wrstud.urz.uni-wuppertal.de/~ka0394/forum/04-06-12_fan_slider_02.png I wanted the whole slider to appear raised, emphasizing it's clickable everywhere. Therefor the glass capsule look serves a purpose, and is not just eye-candy. The orange/yellow is supposed to give enough contrast in brightness alone, and to give a feel of energy, without being too agressive. First 3 sizes, to see how it looks like down to quadratic for replacing small knobs (not sure about that). Then on mouse-over. It must be imediately clear, that there is this functionality, and I hope this will make noobs try what happens when moving the pointer towards that area. Also doubles as alternative to the usual highlighting for now. This initial area fades out to the outside, as does the part right of the pointer position when the pointer is outside the main slider. This is for indicating that you can always move farther outwards (well, screen edges could be the limit, but shouldn't be, IMHO) I moved away from showing straightened lines on the outside (reiterating the plain slider). I thought it would make interpretation easier, but now think it only leads to a weird distorted 3d look. Note that the mouse pointer will be offset from the mark according to where the user clicked on the slider. Such behaviour might seem strange first, but I know from Blender that one can get used to it in not time, and then it's just fine. And finaly showing a little transparency. Should allow to compare with other sliders that would otherwise be hidden. But must be carefully adjusted, to not just result in a mess on screen. On mouse buttons and modifiers: - Left is clear - Right should be reserved for context menu. But who says a slider can't have one: min, max, reset/center, copy/paste ... - Middle button could be used for jump mode (value snaps to mouse position imediately) - Wheel and +/- keys could work on mouse-over already Now Ctrl is used to emulate right-click on the Mac and I believe in Blender. Therefor Ctrl-leftclick should be configurable. What about middle-click emulation? Shift could be used to open the fan area enlarged right above the slider, or any other way as shortcut to higher precison. Alt for changing the value in steps, maybe. --- Thorsten Wilms

21 years

[linux-audio-dev] Re: linux-audio-dev Digest, Vol 9, Issue 49

by Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen

Marek Peteraj: > > > > Ouch, never be sarcastic/ironic on e-mail. I completely agree with > > you. I though that was clear by my "Oh..." comment which you had > > cut away. The point was: _i_ actually want to customize everything > > via scheme-scripts (that is true), which Tim Hockin made (some kind of) > > a joke about. And by saying that I tried to express that what Tim Hockin > > perhaps means is ridiculous, does perfectly makes sense for > > other. We need to have choises/alternatives/anarchy/etc. because > > we are all different, etc. > > Were not that different actually, we're human beings ;) > > Besides, look at the CD vs. tons of DVD "standards" issue. > Having lots of opportunities in DVD burning world can make you perfectly > incompatible with your friends. > > That's why CD still works. > Thats not a valid analogy. I was talking about customizing user interfaces. > And Kjetil - you're a perfect minority and actually being ignorant to > those who are the exact opposite. Freedom will stay on linux. It's > because it's open source. > I have a feeling you are trying to start a flame-war? --

21 years

Re: [linux-audio-dev] [OT] marketing hype

by Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen

Marek Peteraj: > > > > Personally speaking, as a free software developer I don't care if my > > programs are deemed as sucessful, they work for me, and handful of other > > people - this makes me happy :) > I'd like to see what other developers of the most popular linux audio > projects think. Because if they share your opinion, i'd rather save some > bucks and buy myself a mac. > Linux audio is perfectly unusable for me. Currently. I do this because I like to do cool things I beleive no one has ever done before. And I like unix and I love fvwm, emacs, bash, guile, etc.. I also have access to all the sources in the operating system, all the drivers I use (except for the nvidia driver :((( ), all the libraries, all the applications, the sources are available for everything. I have full control. This makes it theoretical possible to make the ultimate sound system. :) If I did this because I wanted to be a superstar or something, I would have written for windows or mac, not AmigaOS (not that much anymore) and linux which is the case now. And no, linux audio is definitely not perfectly unusable for me. Quite the contrary; pd, supercollider, snd, ladspa, alsa, jack and the very low-latish kernel make it to be a very usable platform for creative work you can't do in other OS's. --

21 years

[linux-audio-dev] [ANN] Specimen 0.3.0 released

by Pete Bessman

The latest release of Specimen, a midi controllable audio sampler for Linux, adds 4 LFOs which can modulate volume, panning, cutoff and resonance into mix. Additionally, the LFOs can be tempo synced to either midi or the jack-transport mechanism. Available for immediate leeching from www.gazuga.net, or you can download the tarball directly here: http://www.gazuga.net/specimen-0.3.0.tar.gz I'm working on a roadmap for Specimen, and I'm interested in hearing what features people are most interested in having. If there's something you want Specimen to do, let me know; the most popular features will get incorporated first. [pb]

21 years

[linux-audio-dev] Sliders

by Thorsten Wilms

Hello again! The discussion about linear or radial mouse movement for knobs finaly got me to mockup an idea i had in my mind for sometime already. For now I call it fan sliders: http://wrstud.urz.uni-wuppertal.de/~ka0394/forum/04-06-10_fan_slider_01.png It's all about concept, not style. The idea is to allow rather small sliders, but on mouse-down lines from top and button appear on one side (important for making the feature discoverable). Outside of the inital slider the pointer position is indicated by the crossing middle and vertical line. The straight horizontal extension is only meant to make reading easier. So up/down is value change, outwards increases precision (can of course be turned for stuff like pan). If the graphics do not fit on the screen, it still can work because the value is indicated by the initial slider and inclination of the center line (well, at least I hope so). Default expansion direction should be reading direction, but moving the pointer out on the other side could make it turn over. Close to the right screen edge the behaviour could be as known from menus. The first mockup has a slider where the dragable part is clearly defined. The second gives a stronger sense of value, but is not clear about where to click (I propose everywhere on the slider area, always grabbing the actual value. No special behaviour like known from scrollbars). It's also more space efficient, because the whole are can be used (with the other one a half button must be spared on both ends each.) For those concerned about precision of pointer movement / inadvertently changes to precision while adjusting value: Instead of linear spreading out, it could be stepped (lines looking like stairs). But that would be much less elegant. Comments, please! --- Thorsten Wilms

21 years, 1 month

[linux-audio-dev] Re: Knobs / widget design

by Juhana Sadeharju

Are you all on vacation because we have 60 mails per day? Horizontal motion is better than vertical. Try it! I can move the pointer horizontally 1000 pixels easily without moving my hand -- I just rotate hand and skew fingers, fast. For vertical motion I have to slide the whole arm on the table -- feels bad and is slow. Juhana

21 years, 1 month

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Linux-audio-dev June 2004