On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 02:06 , Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> sent:
>eviltwin69(a)cableone.net wrote:
>
>> Aaaaaarrrrrggghhhh - knobs. One of my pet peeves. Knobs make absolutely no
>>sense in a GUI. There is no easy (or standard) way to control them. Note that
>>there are no knobs in JAMin. The parametric controls aren't even knobs. I think
>>this was the point he was making. Take a look at T-RackS. Lovely knobs and
>>litle glowing tube pictures - how lovely. But a major PITA to use. Trying to
>>make GUIs that look like some metal box is counterproductive. Just make the
>>thing work efficiently.
>>
>>
>Two words: mouse wheel. I cannot *believe* this has not come up yet.
>
It did, and it's a damn good idea. Since I don't have a wheel mouse I never
thought of it. Gotta go get one ;-)
Jan
I posted here a bit ago about implementing gibson's MaGiC protocol on
linux as a final university project.
Anyway, I was looking for other possibilities. The project can be fun and
all, but has to have some acedemic value (being able to "publish" is a big
plus). Perhaps working on that Juno9 VST?
I don't have *too* much programming experience, but I learn fast. Any
ideas for a interesting program is greatly appreciated.
...Perhaps, it'll make a good list to post online for people that wanna
help out linux audio support but don't know what's needed/wanted.
Thanks y'all
-mike
On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 20:55 , Marek Peteraj <marpet(a)naex.sk> sent:
>It all depends on how you perceive different controls (different knobs
>in different sections etc) and how you learn ot perceive them, i.e. how
>you get to know them and how you get used to them.
>
Aaaaaarrrrrggghhhh - knobs. One of my pet peeves. Knobs make absolutely no
sense in a GUI. There is no easy (or standard) way to control them. Note that
there are no knobs in JAMin. The parametric controls aren't even knobs. I think
this was the point he was making. Take a look at T-RackS. Lovely knobs and
litle glowing tube pictures - how lovely. But a major PITA to use. Trying to
make GUIs that look like some metal box is counterproductive. Just make the
thing work efficiently.
>
>Virtual 3d guis copy the real world. Try to do it the other way around,
>with widget sliders and one color for both sliders and background(most
>cases). Imagine a hw which would look like that.
>
Why would I want to imagine hardware - we are talking about software aren't we?
>Another such case is animations in UI. They improve usability aswell.
>If carefully adjusted, they help to prevent sudden changes in the UI.
>Animations are not just eye-candy.
>
Sometimes. Rarely. Usually they are just a way to sell a product.
Jan
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:40:01 +0200
> From: Benno Senoner <sbenno(a)gardena.net>
> Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Knobs / widget design
> To: "The Linux Audio Developers' Mailing List"
> <linux-audio-dev(a)music.columbia.edu>
> Message-ID: <40C79FD1.4030306(a)gardena.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Very nice knobs Thorsten !
> We could use them in LinuxSampler :)
> Rui Nuno Capela has started work on the GUI
> http://www.linuxsampler.org/screenshots.html
> For example the channel strips could use a knob for volume instead of a
> fader
> which would save some space.
>
> Thorsten in what format do you plan to release the knobs ?
> As a serie of pixmaps in various sizes ?
> ( I guess for larger knobs at least 50-100 pixmaps are needed
> to allow for smooth movements).
> Or do you use open source rendering apps thus posting the 3D source file
> with instructions
> how to render the various positions (that would be cool since everyone
> could render their
> own customtailored pixmaps).
>
> let us know, keep up with the good work.
>
> cheers,
> Benno
Hi Benno,
I've played around creating 3D knobs using a combination of Povray, Perl and
gimp-perl. Basically, you create a base file in povray, start gimp-perl
server and then run the Perl script to create incremental images and
convert them to whatever format you need. Some examples are here:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~adamjking/images/knobs/knobs.htm
The scripting is a quick and dirty hack, but it work for me.
Cheers,
Adam
Sorry, you are correct. In JAMin it's center click. Jeez, I wrote it, I should
know these things :-\
Jan
On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 08:32 , Chris Cannam <cannam(a)all-day-breakfast.com> sent:
>On Wednesday 09 Jun 2004 7:30 am, Richard Bown wrote:
>> On Tuesday 08 June 2004 20:22, Chris Cannam wrote:
>> > On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 7:46 pm, eviltwin69(a)cableone.net wrote:
>> > > Right click on any slider in JAMin and it immediately goes
>> > > to the default position, whether center or zero.
>> >
>> > Ah, now I looked for that feature but didn't find it. In
>> > Rosegarden you double-click to zero a fader. I didn't think of
>> > right-clicking.
>>
>> Actually no - you right click in RG to center a fader. Double
>> click doesn't do anything AFAICT so maybe you dreamt that.
>
>Ah well here we go again then, an inconsistency. You certainly do
>double-click to zero a fader, but (again I hadn't thought to try this
>before, but now I just have) you right-click to centre a knob. And
>that is centre, rather than reset to default, which seems odd.
>
>(btw, in JAMin it seems you actually middle-click, not right-click, to
>reset a fader. At least in the version I have here.)
>
>
>Chris
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 22:37, Dan Hollis wrote:
> i think its possible to get your point across without being a dick.
>
> sadly, you didn't do it.
I always don't, you should already know that, i'm known for that ;)
>
> On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Marek Peteraj wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 13:17, Dave Griffiths wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 21:11, Marek Peteraj wrote:
> > > > What linux audio offers is
> > > > technology. No comfort at all. Right now it's all just academic
> > > > software.
> > >
> > > This, and the lack of marketing departments is exactly why I am here.
> > >
> > > I don't want to see linux apps turning into slickly hyped lifestyle
> > > products like the rest of the music software business. We should push
> > > the advantages we have,
> >
> > What advantages? Free as in beer?
> >
> > > rather than follow the path of steinberg etc...
> >
> > But you guys *are* following proprietary software in general. Ardour is
> > a DAW just like cubase is, while SSM resembles reaktor in its
> > philosophy. LADSPAs are plugins like VSTs are, etc etc etc. There's
> > nothing which is perfectly original.
> >
> > I've never seen such inapt community btw, which is totally ignorant in
> > organizing itself. See the gnome community which started to exist the
> > same year. They have more conferences per year, one of them being
> > huge(guadec) with sponsors, larger companies involved, and *most* of
> > *all* they're a centralised community.
> >
> > What we have is tons of links and no information. Although there are
> > some very good standards which could be successful even in another
> > domain(e.g. jack), nobody cares to promote them.
> >
> > Lots of LADders even think that this mailing list isn't really
> > important. Nobody cares that it actually represents a pretty central
> > meeting point for developers interested in linux audio, and a perfect
> > knowledgebase.
> >
> > We also have an organisation, which isn't really an organisation since
> > it's not a legal entity, and about 2/3rds of all don't seem to even
> > participate. And that organisation seems to have different goals than
> > promoting and protecting linux audio in *general*, *whether* pro or not,
> > i.e. the linux audio community.
> >
> > Centralising information and provoding easy access is a pretty good way
> > to promote linux audio so that it reaches more developers and users, you
> > don't need marketing hype for that. No matter if it concerns linux audio
> > in general or ladspa plugins.
> >
> > The gnome community already provides that, the kde community aswell.
> > Heck, there's even a linuxprinting.org community. Do i need to say more?
> >
> > >
> > > Personally speaking, as a free software developer I don't care if my
> > > programs are deemed as sucessful, they work for me, and handful of other
> > > people - this makes me happy :)
> >
> > I'd like to see what other developers of the most popular linux audio
> > projects think. Because if they share your opinion, i'd rather save some
> > bucks and buy myself a mac.
> > Linux audio is perfectly unusable for me. Currently.
> >
> > Marek
> >
>
>
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 15:15, Ben wrote:
> > Sounds interesting. This is what I do for a living. But would any
> > of
> > the linux audio developers actually follow it?
>
> You mean you're a usability engineer?
>
> Marek
>
Er, yes. In addition to graphics designer, programmer, tech supporter
and occasional gofer.
The audio industry is actually quite tiny. I doubt that ANY audio
software company has a dedicated usability engineer. I've never seen
such a position posted.
The industry probably needs a usability standard but I would be very
surprised if anybody actually followed the standard we produce.
Everybody, by definition, is a usability expert in their own usage
habits. But I'm willing to discuss it if anybody wants to bounce ideas
around on- or off-list
-Ben Loftis
Sounds interesting. This is what I do for a living. But would any of
the linux audio developers actually follow it?
-Ben Loftis
> Maybe some kind of audio app interface design proposal is in order:
> linux audio interface design - basic application control keys: LAID
> BACK
>
> Gerard
>
No, I didn't dream it, I wrote it. I may have missed a slider or two but I think
I got most of them. Of course I am talking about the latest CVS not 0.8.0.
Jan
On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 07:30 , Richard Bown <richard.bown(a)ferventsoftware.com> sent:
>On Tuesday 08 June 2004 20:22, Chris Cannam wrote:
>> On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 7:46 pm, eviltwin69(a)cableone.net wrote:
>> > Right click on any slider in JAMin and it immediately goes to
>> > the default position, whether center or zero.
>>
>> Ah, now I looked for that feature but didn't find it. In Rosegarden
>> you double-click to zero a fader. I didn't think of right-clicking.
>
>Actually no - you right click in RG to center a fader. Double click doesn't
>do anything AFAICT so maybe you dreamt that.
>
IMHO this is much bigger problem in UI design.
In ardour it is shift-click in JAMin it is right click, in Rosegarden it is
double-click.
That the sliders all look different is much less confusing than that the
behaviour is all different.
Maybe some kind of audio app interface design proposal is in order:
linux audio interface design - basic application control keys: LAID BACK
Gerard
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 14:22, Chris Cannam wrote:
> On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 7:46 pm, eviltwin69(a)cableone.net wrote:
> > Right click on any slider in JAMin and it immediately goes to
> > the default position, whether center or zero.
>
> Ah, now I looked for that feature but didn't find it. In Rosegarden
> you double-click to zero a fader. I didn't think of right-clicking.
>
--
electronic & acoustic musics-- http://www.xs4all.nl/~gml