Linux-audio-dev

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7516 discussions

by Ben

Thorsten, Regarding the fan display, how do you handle the case where the fader is at the very top or bottom of the screen? -Ben

21 years, 4 months

[linux-audio-dev] Draft position statement of AGNULA on ALSA firmware

by Andrea Glorioso

Dear all, after a very busy period I finally managed to find the needed time and concentration to write the first darft of AGNULA position on distributing ALSA firmware. To make a long story short, the final position I'm proposing is that AGNULA *should* distribute such firmware, but should carefully explain why it's doing it and how it thinks that this is not the optimal solution. I'd like all of you to comment on the following draft statement, whether you find it acceptable or not. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++ THE AGNULA PROJECT POSITION ON ALSA FIRMWARE For quite a long time, the ALSA project [0] has been providing a reference architecture and top-quality Linux drivers for a wide variety of sound cards. All the code of the core ALSA system and of the drivers has been released under either the GNU GPL license or under a Free Software license, as defined by the Free Software Foundation. The AGNULA project is very thankful to the ALSA team for allowing the A/DeMuDi distribution to use and distribute their software. However, AGNULA is facing a difficult problem dealing with a subtle issue: firmware. Many professional grade soundcards require "firmware" (hexadecimal blobs of data which have to be "uploaded" on the hardware for it to do work properly, or to work at all in some cases), which the ALSA project distribute in a separate package. The question arose whether AGNULA would be entitled to distribute such firmware as part of its A/DeMuDi distribution. During its funded lifetime as a European Commision IST project, AGNULA was bound to only distribute Free Software as defined by the Free Software Foundation guidelines; the participation of Free Software Foundation Europe as a member of the AGNULA Consortium was meant to guarantee this specific part of the agreement. After the end of the funded lifetime, AGNULA has become a (mostly) volunteer project; however, FSFE has registered the "AGNULA" trademark and allows it to be used only by projects which fulfill the general goal of supporting Free Software, from both the technical and the philosophical points of view. Current AGNULA volunteers have, of course, no problem with FSFE registering the trademark - on the contrary, we feel this is a useful strategy to avoid our work being misused. To make a long story short, AGNULA has reached the conclusion that it *will* distribute the firmware needed to make some sound cards properly work. To make a short story long, let us explain our line of reasoning: (1) The first question is whether we can legally distribute such firmware at all, barring for a moment the problem of its "freeness". The ALSA project has been given permission to distribute it, and our investigation showed no proof that this permission refers to the ALSA project and not to other parties; so we concluded that we could legally distribute such firmware. (2) The second question is whether such firmware is "software" (i.e. a computer program) or "data". The distinction between the two is very, very blurry. The position of AGNULA is that the firmware we are discussing about can be actually considered software (i.e. a computer program) in the sense that it is interpreted by a piece of hardware to execute some operations. (3) The third question is, given that we consider firmware as software, what is the "preferred form for modification" of such firmware. The wording we use is not random: it's the way the GNU GPL license defines the "source code" of a program. Now, if the "preferred form for modification" of said firmware is editing the hex codes themselves, then we are actually distributing the source together with the program. Unfortunately, we are quite convinced (based on our personal experience, and on us being overly cautious) that the "preferred form for modification" of such firmware is not hacking on hexadecimal values; we think the firmware is the result of some higher-level language being compiled into the resulting "blob" (no more and no less than what happens with "ordinary" computer programs). Given (1), (2) and (3) we conclude that the firmware we are discussing about can't actually be considered Free Software. However, given that: (4) without such firmware, most professional-grade sound cards won't work; (5) the Free Software community, and AGNULA specifically, has not gained enough momentum in the audio field to be able to convince any major sound card manufacturer that it should release the source code of its firmware (supposing (3) is true, of course) lest AGNULA won't distribute such firmware inside A/DeMuDi, (6) the unwillingness by AGNULA to distribute such firmware would actually *damage* Free Software, because we think most people - who for years have been using proprietary software to do their pro audio and sound work - will simply refuse to accept the extra burden of having to download a separate package and configure it outside the usual distribution mechanism; (7) we feel that providing a downloader for such firmware would be a hypocritical stance - "we don't give you X, but we give you an easy way to get X". We don't see the point in acting this way. the AGNULA project has decided that it *will* distribute the alsa-firmware package in the next releases of its AGNULA/DeMuDi distribution. Please bear with this long message a bit more. (8) We don't feel this is a completely satisfactory solution. We think the user should be in complete control of the system s/he is using, and the only way to get that is to have complete access to the source code of the software s/he is using and the possibility to modify and redistribute it without too much hassle. Media Innovation Unit - Firenze Tecnologia (MIU-FT), itself a part of the AGNULA team, is convinced that Free and Open Hardware is an interesting line of research that should be further investigated, and will allocate a part of its resources in the coming months to understand the issues involved and the possible solutions. Interested parties should contact MIU-FT technical coordinator (Andrea Glorioso <sama(a)miu-ft.org>). (9) Although A/DeMuDi distributes jMax, a program which is in and by itself Free Software but is currently depending on non-free Java Runtime Environments implementations, we don't feel obliged or compelled to distribute a non-free JRE because of our decision to distribute ALSA firmware. We feel the two situations are non-comparable: providing an alternative to those parts of jMax which depend on a non-free JRE (namely the GUI) is substantially easier, both technically and legally, than writing replacement firmware for the sound cards which need it. (10) This decision on firmware *only* applies to ALSA firmware - i.e. the firmware currently distributed by the ALSA project. We reserve the right to decide, on a case by case basis, whether we will distribute firmware which will be included into the ALSA package in the future and/or firmware for other parts of a system running our A/DeMuDi distributioon. (11) We do know that the Debian project has taken a different route than us. Although we are striving to make A/DeMuDi as much integrated into Debian as possible, we want to reserve - in this and in other occasion - the freedom to decide autonomously what we feel is better for the advancement of Free Software. On behalf of the AGNULA project, Andrea Glorioso [0] http://www.alsa-project.org/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Comments, criticisms, whatever should be sent to: <users(a)lists.agnula.org> Best regards, -- Andrea Glorioso andrea.glorioso(a)agnula.org AGNULA Technical Manager http://www.agnula.org/ M: +39 333 820 5723 F: +39 (0)51 930 31 133 "Libre Audio, Libre Video, Libre Software: AGNULA"

21 years, 4 months

[linux-audio-dev] [ANNOUNCE] Yatm 0.1.0

by Mario Lang

Hi. It is small, dumb, and simple, but I just couldn't resist letting you all know about my first Linux audio application written in C (well, actually C++, but I had no choice!) What is it? Yatm is a small command-line mp3 player with tempo variation capabilities. It uses libao for audio output, libmad to decode MPEG audio, and libsoundtouch to do the tempo changing. A sample usage case would be for listening to audiobooks at a different tempo than originally recorded. It could also be used as a backend for DAISY Digital Talking Book format player in the future (see http://www.daisy.org/). The name Yatm stands for Yet Another Time Machine :-). Where is it? http://delysid.org/yatm-0.1.0.tar.gz TODO: * Add support for seeking and timed playback (using the original time of the audio file, such that indexes into a file do not need to be translated according to current tempo) * Add support for playing RIFF WAV files and OGG/Vorbis. * Add a simple command-line interactive mode to be able to change tempo during playback without interrupting the program. * Add the ability to define several indices at startup which will be reported to stdout when reached. This could be used to advance a reading cursor when presenting a DAISY book which does have detailed index information. Since this is my first Linux Audio app, comments are highly appreciated. -- CYa, Mario | Debian Developer <URL:http://debian.org/> | Get my public key via finger mlang(a)db.debian.org | 1024D/7FC1A0854909BCCDBE6C102DDFFC022A6B113E44

21 years, 4 months

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Knobs, the reply

by urban schlemmer

hi@all (and sorry if this is gonna be a new thread) >I think the clicks in most mouse wheels would make it >unsuitable for >manipulating audio controls. no, wrong answer. i work with sequoia und every `click' shifts volume 0,3dB. perfect handling even for life mixes. urban http://www.nusurf.at/

21 years, 4 months

[linux-audio-dev] [OT] marketing hype

by Marek Peteraj

Paul: > <paul returns from a week away> > % f +gtk-in > % rmm cur-last > % f +gtkmm-in > % rmm cur-last > % f +new > % rmm `pick -from wine-devel` > % rmm `pick -from xdg-list` > and then i can put all those commands in script and next time just do: > % clean-mail >that's what i call a mail client. And this is exactly what explains the clutter in ardour UI. Sorry Paul, but this is your way of handling email. My way of choosing and using email clients(and other apps) is simply driven by the same needs most users have. To read, write and manage email easily. I just want to fetch my emails, click twice to respond to them, perhaps...hmm backup my mboxes so that i can import them next time with two other clicks? The only advanced feature i'm using is filters perhaps. And that's just setting up a filter so that i don't care next time, and it's damn easy in evolution. One thing you might all consider as stupid. I need it black on white to concentrate. And 19th century ncurses is driving me crazy. And yes, i'm using linux audio, using gentoo, compiling packages from sources, running jack, configuring all that stuff etc etc. Fons: > There seems to be a belief that computers and software would eleminate > the > need for education and training, that sitting at a DAW turns you > instantly > into a sound engineer, But knowing the features of a DAW isn't *at *all* the only thing you need to know in *order* to be a sound engineer. And the less it takes up the better for the rest of the things a sound engineer has to *know* in order to be a good sound engineer. > and clicking the mouse on soft synth makes you > a qualified musician. It *never* did, *even* with *tons* of perfect win/mac software. All tools there only. > This is a complete fallacy, and IMHO just one > manifestation of the global dumbing-down exercise that's happening all > around us, and that is driven by those who make money out of it. So you call not removing disturbing non-efficient and stupid UI designs which make your life harder and all that -- fallacy and dumbing-down?? :) Certain things i just don't get into my head and probably never will: * Why do some people here believe that centralising information, encouraging standards and trying to make some "proprietary/pro"-grade oss software is going to take your freedom of choice? Suppose we have say 6 different applications (DAW, drummachine, sampler, you name it)that perfecly compete with proprietary world. Does *that* take the freedom of choice? Does encouraging of toolkits(we've got two major ones) take your freedom? Did jack take your freedom to make your own audio server? No. Why? Two words - *Open* *Source* The only thing that's going to happen is that *most* users will use those 6 applications in a (what people tend to call here) dumb environment. And those users haven't even arrived here yet. Because they are the *real* non-technical users. The rest can fiddle around with configurations and code as much as they can. Not(!) so in win32 and to some extent also on mac. Can you tweak evolution code-wise? sure you can. Can you just go ahead with your own client? sure you can. Can you pick your favorite toolkit or make your own? Sure you can. But why do i have to install 280+ toolkits in order to use linux audio? Last note - i might be a dick, but i'm honest. Marek

21 years, 4 months

[linux-audio-dev] linux use (was [OT] marketing hype)

by vanDongen/Gilcher

Well as a profesional linux user (music is my dayjob) I can maybe describe some of the things that make linux much more productive for me than mac or windows. Jack is one of the key points. (with alsa sequencer but midi loopback is not unique, the mac has had that for ages) Workspaces and keyboard control in the window manager is another. As you say, making a production involves a lot of different pieces of software and/or equipment. I work mainly in software these days, but there are always some things easier with outboard stuff. So I need many different programs, and the fact that they can all talk to each other is great, because ,even on the mac, you always need that one small utility to fix a little thing, do a special effect etc. For instance, I had to do some songs for a children's theatre show (music for the elephant, the crocodile on the train etc). It was so nice to edit the score in rosegarden (which has pretty nice score entry) send it as midi to fluidsynth and hydrogen and record it into ardour which has the best editing/mixing facilities. I can quickly make a special special-effect in csound and run parts of a session through that, never having to quit this, start that, make batches so etc. So unless you are willing to stick with one mega-application (logic or cubase), and I have never been able to, linux is more productive in this way. The other thing that makes linux more productive for me is the windowmanager I am using: ion, a tabbed/tiled window manager which I would like to promote here as one of the most productivity enhancing piece of software I know. It is unorthodox, but it manages your windows instead of cluttering the desktop. No icons, no eyecandy. Takes getting used to, but I never ever have to hunt for a window hidden underneath somewhere, or find it on the toolbar or the thingy OSX has now (a seperate program that shows all windows in minature so you can click where you want to go). Instead I have the screens (dual head) seperated into tiles, I can navigate with my keyboard to whatever window I want, I optimize screen real-estate, so it is much easier to show many different plugin windows f.i. etc.. etc.. But I have worked a only little bit on OSX and I found it very annoying, ridiculous special effects, a toolbar that pops up,no extra workspaces to order your apps. Way to much fluff. In conclusion, I can say that I could probably make the endresult, the music, on any system, but that I can do it quicker and more to my liking on linux. But I am not your average user probably, I code sometimes as a hobby and I like looking at the internals. Gerard On Friday 11 June 2004 09:01, linux-audio-dev-request(a)music.columbia.edu From: Tim Orford <tim(a)orford.org> > i dont mean to be aggressive, i'm just really intrigued to > know how people get any music done. There is never any talk on > this list or LAU about real software usage or workflows etc. > > for most people its not enough just to be able to do something, > it has to be doable without impacting productivity or creativity. > > my personal experience is this: Music production is now an > integrated process where the synthesis, composition, programming, > recording, arrangement, and mixing of music overlap and everything > is editable at all stages. I guess i'm biased by my own desires and > studio experiences, but i do beleive this is what the majority of > people want. > > such a system is not acheivable by bedroom hackers, it requires > some cooperation and organisation. Currently all we have are > the supporting peripherals (synths, editors, fx). > > is there really noone here who is seriously interested in this? -- electronic & acoustic musics-- http://www.xs4all.nl/~gml

21 years, 4 months

[linux-audio-dev] Buffer size settings - Mac/Windows

by Michael Ost

Hi. Does anyone out there know what the audio buffer size settings in Windows and MacOS really mean? If you say "128 samples" does that translate to 2 buffers of 128 samples --- one buffer playing, one buffer filling --- or 2 buffers of 64 samples? Is it 256 samples of latency or 128? I realize this isn't _exactly_ a Linux audio question, but perhaps someone out there knows something about this. We're trying to get an apples to apples comparison of our Linux/ALSA based system with a Windows/MacOS system. We set the ALSA driver to 2x128 and we get results that jibe more with the 256 setting in Windows. But when we hooked a Windows system up to a scope it looked more like the 128 sample setting was running 2x64 samples. So... we're confused. Any pearls of wisdom out there? ... mo =================================== Michael Ost, Software Architect Muse Research, Inc. most(a)museresearch.com

21 years, 4 months

[linux-audio-dev] Sliders 2

by Thorsten Wilms

Hi! Worked out a design for fan-sliders: http://wrstud.urz.uni-wuppertal.de/~ka0394/forum/04-06-12_fan_slider_02.png I wanted the whole slider to appear raised, emphasizing it's clickable everywhere. Therefor the glass capsule look serves a purpose, and is not just eye-candy. The orange/yellow is supposed to give enough contrast in brightness alone, and to give a feel of energy, without being too agressive. First 3 sizes, to see how it looks like down to quadratic for replacing small knobs (not sure about that). Then on mouse-over. It must be imediately clear, that there is this functionality, and I hope this will make noobs try what happens when moving the pointer towards that area. Also doubles as alternative to the usual highlighting for now. This initial area fades out to the outside, as does the part right of the pointer position when the pointer is outside the main slider. This is for indicating that you can always move farther outwards (well, screen edges could be the limit, but shouldn't be, IMHO) I moved away from showing straightened lines on the outside (reiterating the plain slider). I thought it would make interpretation easier, but now think it only leads to a weird distorted 3d look. Note that the mouse pointer will be offset from the mark according to where the user clicked on the slider. Such behaviour might seem strange first, but I know from Blender that one can get used to it in not time, and then it's just fine. And finaly showing a little transparency. Should allow to compare with other sliders that would otherwise be hidden. But must be carefully adjusted, to not just result in a mess on screen. On mouse buttons and modifiers: - Left is clear - Right should be reserved for context menu. But who says a slider can't have one: min, max, reset/center, copy/paste ... - Middle button could be used for jump mode (value snaps to mouse position imediately) - Wheel and +/- keys could work on mouse-over already Now Ctrl is used to emulate right-click on the Mac and I believe in Blender. Therefor Ctrl-leftclick should be configurable. What about middle-click emulation? Shift could be used to open the fan area enlarged right above the slider, or any other way as shortcut to higher precison. Alt for changing the value in steps, maybe. --- Thorsten Wilms

21 years, 4 months

[linux-audio-dev] Re: linux-audio-dev Digest, Vol 9, Issue 49

by Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen

Marek Peteraj: > > > > Ouch, never be sarcastic/ironic on e-mail. I completely agree with > > you. I though that was clear by my "Oh..." comment which you had > > cut away. The point was: _i_ actually want to customize everything > > via scheme-scripts (that is true), which Tim Hockin made (some kind of) > > a joke about. And by saying that I tried to express that what Tim Hockin > > perhaps means is ridiculous, does perfectly makes sense for > > other. We need to have choises/alternatives/anarchy/etc. because > > we are all different, etc. > > Were not that different actually, we're human beings ;) > > Besides, look at the CD vs. tons of DVD "standards" issue. > Having lots of opportunities in DVD burning world can make you perfectly > incompatible with your friends. > > That's why CD still works. > Thats not a valid analogy. I was talking about customizing user interfaces. > And Kjetil - you're a perfect minority and actually being ignorant to > those who are the exact opposite. Freedom will stay on linux. It's > because it's open source. > I have a feeling you are trying to start a flame-war? --

21 years, 4 months

Re: [linux-audio-dev] [OT] marketing hype

by Kjetil Svalastog Matheussen

Marek Peteraj: > > > > Personally speaking, as a free software developer I don't care if my > > programs are deemed as sucessful, they work for me, and handful of other > > people - this makes me happy :) > I'd like to see what other developers of the most popular linux audio > projects think. Because if they share your opinion, i'd rather save some > bucks and buy myself a mac. > Linux audio is perfectly unusable for me. Currently. I do this because I like to do cool things I beleive no one has ever done before. And I like unix and I love fvwm, emacs, bash, guile, etc.. I also have access to all the sources in the operating system, all the drivers I use (except for the nvidia driver :((( ), all the libraries, all the applications, the sources are available for everything. I have full control. This makes it theoretical possible to make the ultimate sound system. :) If I did this because I wanted to be a superstar or something, I would have written for windows or mac, not AmigaOS (not that much anymore) and linux which is the case now. And no, linux audio is definitely not perfectly unusable for me. Quite the contrary; pd, supercollider, snd, ladspa, alsa, jack and the very low-latish kernel make it to be a very usable platform for creative work you can't do in other OS's. --

21 years, 4 months

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Linux-audio-dev