Linux-audio-dev

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7516 discussions

by Ben

> Yes, it's definitely easier to see the position of a knob > (usually). > The parametric sliders in the JAMin HDEQ are a result of my not > wanting > to use knobs. I think there are probably other ways to replace them > as > well. > > Jan As a rule of thumb, if the parameters are related to each other (i.e. channel level controls) then it is clearer to use sliders because the user can compare the relative levels. If the faders are NOT correlated, then I find it misleading to have them arrayed next to each other. Knobs work pretty well in the "uncorrelated" case because your eye doesn't even try to decipher the relative values. My biggest beef with knobs is the variety of ways the mouse movement is implemented. Most software gives you no clue ... vertically? horizontally? radially? ... and Murphy's law says your first 2 guesses will be wrong. The app "Soundplay" for BeOS takes a novel approach ... the level is shown as a knob but when you grab it, a rectangular box appears behind the knob and you adust it like a fader. This is great because it gives you visual feedback of which direction(s) to move the knob. -Ben Loftis

21 years, 4 months

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Knobs / widget design

by Ben

At Harrison we decided to avoid knobs altogether. Instead we use short, fat faders (OK there are a few knob things just to look different) That worked out pretty well. My preferences are: left-click for linear (up & down) adjustment right-click for fine adjust middle-click to return to default (if there is such a thing for this knob) double-click to edit radial just doesn't work for me. -Ben Loftis

21 years, 4 months

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?

by eviltwin69＠cableone.net

On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 21:15 , Fons Adriaensen <fons.adriaensen(a)skynet.be> sent: > >- When I saw the collection of VST plugins that Paul Davis used >to show his VST hosting in Karlsruhe, I asked myself "My god, >do they all look that childish ?". This is just to say I terribly >dislike this eye-candy style, and given the choice between that >and a (maybe boring) set of standard toolkit sliders, I'd prefer >the latter. The ideal is somewhere in between, but certainly not >to the eye-candy side. > Amen! >- Before everything went digital, multitrack mixing desks had >lots of controls and very little space to put them in. Good >layout was absolutely essential, and most of the big name >manufacturers mastered this quite well. It's done by > > - observing elementary aesthetic rules (e.g. color > combinations), Colors must always be configurable. The percentage of color blind people is much higher than most people think. > - removing all useless clutter, > - following the logic of the application, e.g. keeping > things that are related together, > - accepting culturally defined standards, such as that > a signal flows from left to right and from top to bottom. Except in China ;-) > - using hints that are picked up unconsciously, rather > than explicit labeling. > >All of this is practically the inverse of eye-candy. > >- Confucius says: When you see a piece of audio equipment >with the word "Professional" printed on it, then it probably >isn't. > >- The typical VST plugin (talking about the serious ones) >corresponds more to a JACK application than a LADSPA plugin, >not because both have a GUI, but because of the complexity. >This is just a matter of naming. We could start calling a >JACK application a JACK 'plugin' but I'd vote against. >JAMIN is a good example of this. > >- As to LADSPA plugins, we could probably give almost all >of them a very functional and nice GUI by defining a set >of a few dozens of 'widget types'. Then there are a few >options: > >1. the plugin specifies the dimensions and positions of >all the widgets, > >2. the dimensions are standard, and the plugins specifies >the positions only, > >3. the host keeps it own database of layouts indexed by >plugin ID. > Good idea but I'd think that could get real complicated very fast. Jan

21 years, 4 months

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?

by eviltwin69＠cableone.net

On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 02:06 , Lee Revell <rlrevell(a)joe-job.com> sent: >eviltwin69(a)cableone.net wrote: > >> Aaaaaarrrrrggghhhh - knobs. One of my pet peeves. Knobs make absolutely no >>sense in a GUI. There is no easy (or standard) way to control them. Note that >>there are no knobs in JAMin. The parametric controls aren't even knobs. I think >>this was the point he was making. Take a look at T-RackS. Lovely knobs and >>litle glowing tube pictures - how lovely. But a major PITA to use. Trying to >>make GUIs that look like some metal box is counterproductive. Just make the >>thing work efficiently. >> >> >Two words: mouse wheel. I cannot *believe* this has not come up yet. > It did, and it's a damn good idea. Since I don't have a wheel mouse I never thought of it. Gotta go get one ;-) Jan

21 years, 4 months

[linux-audio-dev] Project ideas?

by michael tewner

I posted here a bit ago about implementing gibson's MaGiC protocol on linux as a final university project. Anyway, I was looking for other possibilities. The project can be fun and all, but has to have some acedemic value (being able to "publish" is a big plus). Perhaps working on that Juno9 VST? I don't have *too* much programming experience, but I learn fast. Any ideas for a interesting program is greatly appreciated. ...Perhaps, it'll make a good list to post online for people that wanna help out linux audio support but don't know what's needed/wanted. Thanks y'all -mike

21 years, 4 months

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?

by eviltwin69＠cableone.net

On Tue, 08 Jun 2004 20:55 , Marek Peteraj <marpet(a)naex.sk> sent: >It all depends on how you perceive different controls (different knobs >in different sections etc) and how you learn ot perceive them, i.e. how >you get to know them and how you get used to them. > Aaaaaarrrrrggghhhh - knobs. One of my pet peeves. Knobs make absolutely no sense in a GUI. There is no easy (or standard) way to control them. Note that there are no knobs in JAMin. The parametric controls aren't even knobs. I think this was the point he was making. Take a look at T-RackS. Lovely knobs and litle glowing tube pictures - how lovely. But a major PITA to use. Trying to make GUIs that look like some metal box is counterproductive. Just make the thing work efficiently. > >Virtual 3d guis copy the real world. Try to do it the other way around, >with widget sliders and one color for both sliders and background(most >cases). Imagine a hw which would look like that. > Why would I want to imagine hardware - we are talking about software aren't we? >Another such case is animations in UI. They improve usability aswell. >If carefully adjusted, they help to prevent sudden changes in the UI. >Animations are not just eye-candy. > Sometimes. Rarely. Usually they are just a way to sell a product. Jan

21 years, 4 months

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Knobs / widget design

by Adam King

> Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 01:40:01 +0200 > From: Benno Senoner <sbenno(a)gardena.net> > Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Knobs / widget design > To: "The Linux Audio Developers' Mailing List" > <linux-audio-dev(a)music.columbia.edu> > Message-ID: <40C79FD1.4030306(a)gardena.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Very nice knobs Thorsten ! > We could use them in LinuxSampler :) > Rui Nuno Capela has started work on the GUI > http://www.linuxsampler.org/screenshots.html > For example the channel strips could use a knob for volume instead of a > fader > which would save some space. > > Thorsten in what format do you plan to release the knobs ? > As a serie of pixmaps in various sizes ? > ( I guess for larger knobs at least 50-100 pixmaps are needed > to allow for smooth movements). > Or do you use open source rendering apps thus posting the 3D source file > with instructions > how to render the various positions (that would be cool since everyone > could render their > own customtailored pixmaps). > > let us know, keep up with the good work. > > cheers, > Benno Hi Benno, I've played around creating 3D knobs using a combination of Povray, Perl and gimp-perl. Basically, you create a base file in povray, start gimp-perl server and then run the Perl script to create incremental images and convert them to whatever format you need. Some examples are here: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~adamjking/images/knobs/knobs.htm The scripting is a quick and dirty hack, but it work for me. Cheers, Adam

21 years, 4 months

Re: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?

by eviltwin69＠cableone.net

Sorry, you are correct. In JAMin it's center click. Jeez, I wrote it, I should know these things :-\ Jan On Wed, 9 Jun 2004 08:32 , Chris Cannam <cannam(a)all-day-breakfast.com> sent: >On Wednesday 09 Jun 2004 7:30 am, Richard Bown wrote: >> On Tuesday 08 June 2004 20:22, Chris Cannam wrote: >> > On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 7:46 pm, eviltwin69(a)cableone.net wrote: >> > > Right click on any slider in JAMin and it immediately goes >> > > to the default position, whether center or zero. >> > >> > Ah, now I looked for that feature but didn't find it. In >> > Rosegarden you double-click to zero a fader. I didn't think of >> > right-clicking. >> >> Actually no - you right click in RG to center a fader. Double >> click doesn't do anything AFAICT so maybe you dreamt that. > >Ah well here we go again then, an inconsistency. You certainly do >double-click to zero a fader, but (again I hadn't thought to try this >before, but now I just have) you right-click to centre a knob. And >that is centre, rather than reset to default, which seems odd. > >(btw, in JAMin it seems you actually middle-click, not right-click, to >reset a fader. At least in the version I have here.) > > >Chris

21 years, 4 months

Re: [linux-audio-dev] [OT] marketing hype

by Marek Peteraj

On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 22:37, Dan Hollis wrote: > i think its possible to get your point across without being a dick. > > sadly, you didn't do it. I always don't, you should already know that, i'm known for that ;) > > On Thu, 10 Jun 2004, Marek Peteraj wrote: > > > On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 13:17, Dave Griffiths wrote: > > > On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 21:11, Marek Peteraj wrote: > > > > What linux audio offers is > > > > technology. No comfort at all. Right now it's all just academic > > > > software. > > > > > > This, and the lack of marketing departments is exactly why I am here. > > > > > > I don't want to see linux apps turning into slickly hyped lifestyle > > > products like the rest of the music software business. We should push > > > the advantages we have, > > > > What advantages? Free as in beer? > > > > > rather than follow the path of steinberg etc... > > > > But you guys *are* following proprietary software in general. Ardour is > > a DAW just like cubase is, while SSM resembles reaktor in its > > philosophy. LADSPAs are plugins like VSTs are, etc etc etc. There's > > nothing which is perfectly original. > > > > I've never seen such inapt community btw, which is totally ignorant in > > organizing itself. See the gnome community which started to exist the > > same year. They have more conferences per year, one of them being > > huge(guadec) with sponsors, larger companies involved, and *most* of > > *all* they're a centralised community. > > > > What we have is tons of links and no information. Although there are > > some very good standards which could be successful even in another > > domain(e.g. jack), nobody cares to promote them. > > > > Lots of LADders even think that this mailing list isn't really > > important. Nobody cares that it actually represents a pretty central > > meeting point for developers interested in linux audio, and a perfect > > knowledgebase. > > > > We also have an organisation, which isn't really an organisation since > > it's not a legal entity, and about 2/3rds of all don't seem to even > > participate. And that organisation seems to have different goals than > > promoting and protecting linux audio in *general*, *whether* pro or not, > > i.e. the linux audio community. > > > > Centralising information and provoding easy access is a pretty good way > > to promote linux audio so that it reaches more developers and users, you > > don't need marketing hype for that. No matter if it concerns linux audio > > in general or ladspa plugins. > > > > The gnome community already provides that, the kde community aswell. > > Heck, there's even a linuxprinting.org community. Do i need to say more? > > > > > > > > Personally speaking, as a free software developer I don't care if my > > > programs are deemed as sucessful, they work for me, and handful of other > > > people - this makes me happy :) > > > > I'd like to see what other developers of the most popular linux audio > > projects think. Because if they share your opinion, i'd rather save some > > bucks and buy myself a mac. > > Linux audio is perfectly unusable for me. Currently. > > > > Marek > > > >

21 years, 4 months

[linux-audio-dev] Re: UI stuff

by Ben

On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 15:15, Ben wrote: > > Sounds interesting. This is what I do for a living. But would any > > of > > the linux audio developers actually follow it? > > You mean you're a usability engineer? > > Marek > Er, yes. In addition to graphics designer, programmer, tech supporter and occasional gofer. The audio industry is actually quite tiny. I doubt that ANY audio software company has a dedicated usability engineer. I've never seen such a position posted. The industry probably needs a usability standard but I would be very surprised if anybody actually followed the standard we produce. Everybody, by definition, is a usability expert in their own usage habits. But I'm willing to discuss it if anybody wants to bounce ideas around on- or off-list -Ben Loftis

21 years, 4 months

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Linux-audio-dev