[linux-audio-dev] Tracktion, JUCE and Linux

Hi everyone, About to let you all know that I took this LAU thread to Jules, Trackion's and JUCE author, and that I got some promising good news. Besides, being sorry of posting the whole thread here, I'm also cross-posting this to LAD, as I think it must be of interest there too. Read on. So to put a long story short: help is being asked to write the native Linux Audio and MIDI components of the JUCE C++ framework, which among other things, would rush the Tracktion Linux port, hopefully this very year :P Hope to be doing TheRightThing. Cheers, -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc(a)rncbc.org ========================================================================== ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Tracktion, JUCE and Linux From: "Rui Nuno Capela" <rncbc(a)rncbc.org> Date: Sun, January 9, 2005 1:59 To: jules(a)rawmaterialsoftware.com Hello Jules, Sorry for this rather long post, but I took the chance and self-initiative in bringing this to you, as I believe you're the main developer of JUCE, and for that matter, of Tracktion. Below you can find an excerpt of a recent thread that was being taken place on linux-audio-users maillist, regarding Tracktion, which is raising some interest on the Linux Audio community, myself included. As a developer, I'm quite excited to know whether the JUCE Linux port is evolving, and just in case you need help, I'll be glad to give you a hand, or two :) You can read my own posts below, regarding me and others potential in willing to help you in delivering a genuine and native JUCE port to our beloved operating system. So please, feel free to it. Most thanks for your (highly precious, in deed) time. -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc(a)rncbc.org ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: [linux-audio-user] Tracktion & Wine From: "Ryan Gallagher" <ruinaudio(a)comcast.net> Date: Thu, January 6, 2005 16:13 To: "A list for linux audio users" <linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu> Ok, First I'm a big supporter/user of Ardour (my name even appears on a contributors list) and I do think we should support FOSS alternatives above all others. Hopefully that will prevent a FOSS/Free-closed debate :P Now, as a Tape-Op subscriber I have been alerted to a Tracktion promotional offer (full functional version free). http://tapeop.com/tracktion.php This looks like a really interesting DAW and it installs under wine but dialog boxes aren't working. Has anyone gotten it functional under wine yet? Has anyone used Tracktion under a native environment? -ry -- Ryan Gallagher <ruinaudio(a)comcast.net> ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Tracktion & Wine From: "Dave Phillips" <dlphilp(a)bright.net> Date: Thu, January 6, 2005 16:40 To: "A list for linux audio users" <linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu> Hi Ryan: I also tried it this morning, got as far as a failure installing the sound device. :( Mackie reportedly announced that there would be a Linux version eventually. Best, dp ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Tracktion & Wine From: "Rui Nuno Capela" <rncbc(a)rncbc.org> Date: Thu, January 6, 2005 17:22 To: "A list for linux audio users" <linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu> I don't know if I'm telling some gross mistake, but Tracktion has been the work of one man, Jules o'something. AFAHCT Tracktion is based on his own cross-platform C++ framework, named JUCE (http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/). Yes cross-platform only between win32 and macosx, atm. However, quoted from the JUCE's to-do-list (http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/todo.html): - get the Linux port up and running.. So, given that JUCE is being released under the GPL, and if some of the LADs are willing to help, things could just happen sooner than later ;) I mean, having a Linux native Trackion port (hopefully with ALSA and JACK support). Tracktion is closed-source however, with commercial rights owned by Mackie. Or so I think. I guess the linux port will be also closed-source. But I would rather buy it, instead of running it under the nasty effects of wine ;) OK. My idea is first probing you LAUs/LADs, my self included, if it makes any sense on lobbying for the Trackion linux port. Second, our X/ALSA/JACK expertise (!) could be offered towards a early JUCE port and help Jules|Mackie in delivering a linux beta product in no time. Anyone interested? -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc(a)rncbc.org ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Tracktion & Wine From: "Ryan Gallagher" <ruinaudio(a)comcast.net> Date: Thu, January 6, 2005 18:54 To: "A list for linux audio users" <linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu> On Thu, 2005-01-06 at 17:22 +0000, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: Yes, AFAIK Tracktion is a Mackie product and only free for a limited time (however the fact that it's been distributed for free seems to suggest a free binary for linux would not be out of the question). I'm of the opinion that choice is good, therefore having another quality (and widely used/supported) DAW would be great for linux. Also, once JUICE is ported, that will provide another great resource for future linux audio development. Finally, the fact that this project is affiliated with Mackie, a HUGE name in the "industry" could work greatly to the benefit if linux/audio. I mean if we could get a linux port of Traction on mackie ftp servers? Well, people would take notice. I'm interested (though code/coding skill deficient). -ry -- Ryan Gallagher <ruinaudio(a)comcast.net> ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Tracktion & Wine From: "Chris Cannam" <cannam(a)all-day-breakfast.com> Date: Thu, January 6, 2005 19:06 To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu Cc: "Rui Nuno Capela" <rncbc(a)rncbc.org> On Thursday 06 Jan 2005 17:22, Rui Nuno Capela wrote: Yes, he dropped by the Linux Audio stand at last year's Sounds Expo. I gave him a (by then) rather weary and incomprehensible spiel about how much fun JACK was, and he talked a bit about the sale of Tracktion to Mackie, which had just happened. Nice enough chap, but he probably thought we were a bunch of wasters. He certainly wasn't entirely unfamiliar with Linux even then though. Chris ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Tracktion & Wine From: "Ryan Gallagher" <ruinaudio(a)comcast.net> Date: Thu, January 6, 2005 20:32 To: "A list for linux audio users" <linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu> On Thu, 2005-01-06 at 12:54 -0600, Ryan Gallagher wrote: By the way JUICE is a pretty big/impressive project for one guy to have developed, let alone Tracktion a complete DAW! We need to lure this guy over to the linux side, he's a coding machine! I'm encouraged that he chose GPL for JUICE. -ry -- Ryan Gallagher <ruinaudio(a)comcast.net> ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Tracktion & Wine From: "David Baron" <d_baron(a)012.net.il> Date: Fri, January 7, 2005 7:19 To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu When that framework is "opensourced", well, I too would be interested in participating and I am good at it :-). Problem is that to get into this, a company needs a business plan far different than conventional. Sun has a two-tiered approach: Sell Star Office to those who want support, give out OpenOffice to the rest of us. Sun, however, is in the computer business. Mackie is basically a hardware house. I wish I could afford a nice mixer panel from them. Will it be profitable for them, after the giveaway ends, to sell Tracktion and add-ons for it, remains to be seen (as this is not really their focus and maintaining software can be a pain (and resource drain) in the butt). Opensourcing the whole kitandkaboodle and selling related/dedicated hardware for it might be an alternative (and the giveaway might just be testing these waters). ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Tracktion & Wine From: "Frank Barknecht" <fbar(a)footils.org> Date: Fri, January 7, 2005 13:56 To: linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu Hallo, David Baron hat gesagt: // David Baron wrote: Well, hardware is, what you can sell even to free software people, and even expensive hardware, as RME has shown. We all need speakers, for example, and Mackie (or Tapco) produces great speakers. If they would support FLOSS development, I'd be even more inclined to prefer their stuff over others'. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__ ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: [linux-audio-user] Tracktion & Wine From: "Rui Nuno Capela" <rncbc(a)rncbc.org> Date: Fri, January 7, 2005 15:01 To: "A list for linux audio users" <linux-audio-user(a)music.columbia.edu> David Baron wrote: Nice to hear. The so-called framework (JUCE) is actualy released under an open-source license (GPL), but I think its up with us, linux audio users and developers, to show Jules what our interests really are, and offer our kind help or participation in whatever will be needed to bring Tracktion to the Linux arena. IMO, the main issue is about bringing JUCE to Linux in the first place. Well, that's the whole purpose of my notice. Speaking for myself, I believe to fit both interests, as an user and as a developer. Please note that I'm not asking for Trackion being open-source. Nor am I assuming it will ever be. I'm just trying to ease the route to reach a true native Linux port. Is up to Mackie whether it will be priced or not. I have no reason to believe Mackie will release Tracktion as open-source, even though Mackie is in the hardware business, not software. OTOH, and as already noticed here, JUCE seems to be a real gem, and as open-source as I trust it is, it can be a real promising cross-platform C++ GUI, Audio and MIDI, all-in-one-toolkit-solution for Linux. Yes, it does seems yet another one, but this time it would be highly specific for building cross-platform DAWs :) The following should be essential linux-platform-specific "underwear" to stuff into JUCE: - GUI: Xorg, freedesktop.org - Audio: JACK, ALSA - MIDI: ALSA obviously being the cream of the crop of our Linux and Audio/MIDI technology, IMO. OK. Next step should be perhaps about asking on LAD if this whole idea makes sense, or is it a plain dead-end. Hopefully not. Then push the whole thread to Jules mailbox and see what comes about ;) Cheers. -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc(a)rncbc.org ========================================================================== ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: Tracktion, JUCE and Linux From: "Julian Storer" <jules(a)rawmaterialsoftware.com> Date: Sun, January 9, 2005 12:40 To: "Rui Nuno Capela" <rncbc(a)rncbc.org> Thanks for that. I have got a load of juce linux stuff almost ready to go (a friend of mine actually helped write it for a project he's working on), but I'm totally tied up at the moment on tracktion, and haven't had time to get it into a release-worthy state. I should be able to get it done within the next couple of months though, and I'm really keen on getting it out into the linux community. The initial juce release won't have any audio stuff in it yet, though (I'm not really a linux person, don't even have a linux machine set up at the moment) so that might be an area where I'll come over to you linux audio guys and see if anyone's interested in helping out! All the best Jules ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: Tracktion, JUCE and Linux From: "Rui Nuno Capela" <rncbc(a)rncbc.org> Date: Sun, January 9, 2005 13:50 To: "Julian Storer" <jules(a)rawmaterialsoftware.com> Hi Julian, First of all, let me thank your quick reply. Thats great news. Even if its not on a release-level state, I think me and some other LADs (Linux Audio Developers) are willing to help you and your friend in the making. You can guess that I'm really motivated in the first place, being this very mail exchange just the superficial evidence ;) First of all, I would ask you if its alright to cross-post your reply(ies) to the linux-audio-devel/user maillist, which everyone will find quite encouraging, or so I believe. Second question goes about public hosting of the JUCE project, and what's your policy about that. For example, are you willing to host JUCE under sourceforge.net, given that you're releasing it under an open-source license (GPL). This is just an humble suggestion. Your thoughts may vary of course. Let us know of your opinion, if that won't take you from what you love. (sourceforge.net's project name "juce" is available for registration, so now would be a golden opportunity; just drop a note if you need some help on this) Speaking for myself, I do have C++, JACK and ALSA skills that you may find appropriate for taking the job done. Others may apply, of course. So, just in case you didn't read the fine print, I'm stepping forward for duty ;) I'll be happy to know about your thoughts. Cheers. -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc(a)rncbc.org ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: Tracktion, JUCE and Linux From: "Julian Storer" <jules(a)rawmaterialsoftware.com> Date: Sun, January 9, 2005 19:04 To: "Rui Nuno Capela" <rncbc(a)rncbc.org> Thanks, it's really cool to see that people are interested in the project! Of course you can cross-post my reply, no problem. And yes, eventually I probably will host it on sourceforge - but again, I've just not had time to think about that kind of stuff just yet. As soon as I get a bit of a break from tracktion my next big thing will be to get on the case here and sort it all out properly.. Cheers Jules ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: Tracktion, JUCE and Linux From: "Rui Nuno Capela" <rncbc(a)rncbc.org> Date: Mon, January 10, 2005 9:57 To: "Julian Storer" <jules(a)rawmaterialsoftware.com> Julian, Fair enough. Just drop me a line, or on the linux-audio-dev list, when you're ready. Meanwhile, if that's not too intrusive of course, would you tap on your friend, the one who's dealing with the linux code, and handing him/her a note? I'm almost certain that both of you would take collaboration as a good idea. Would you forward him/her this thread? Based on what you've mentioned, I'm guessing that your friend is working on the GUI code. If that's right, that leaves the Audio/MIDI stuff for our joint venture, so to speak. I think this is really perfect timing IMO. Hope to hear from you soon, Cheers. -- rncbc aka Rui Nuno Capela rncbc(a)rncbc.org ---------------------------- Original Message ---------------------------- Subject: Re: Tracktion, JUCE and Linux From: "Julian Storer" <jules(a)rawmaterialsoftware.com> Date: Mon, January 10, 2005 10:23 To: "Rui Nuno Capela" <rncbc(a)rncbc.org> Sure thing, thanks Rui!