30 Sep
2008
30 Sep
'08
2:24 p.m.
On Tue, 30.09.08 11:19, Gene Heskett (gene.heskett(a)verizon.net) wrote:
In the case of Fedora, no, the buck stops there, and I'm made to be the
bad-ass. It looks to me as if they are deliberately shielding the
developers, or maybe they are locked in a closet off the lunch room living on
scraps?
This is utter nonsense.
There are probably no companies that are more open about what their
developers do than Red Hat. Most of us have blogs where it is very
simple to follow what we do. And most of the time they are syndicated
all around the net. Almost all our development happens upstream and
can be followed in git repos and stuff. We attend conferences where we
explain what is going on -- and a lot of them. I post regularly on
mailing lists like this one. We hang around on IRC almost our entire
work time.
If you call us shielded off then I wonder what you'd call everyone
else.
How would you like to have them offered? Maybe home delivered as printed
books? Would that suit you?
Have you ever tried to go to "pulseaudio.org" if you had a question?
Have you ever tried this thing called "Google"? It's a so called
"search engine" that helps you find things when you don't know where
to look. It's pretty hot stuff!
Assuming that you mean NetworkManager by "NM": you are underestimating
how much integration work this actually is. The kernel-userspace
interfaces for networking have been total chaos in the past. And it is
getting better. Much better.
And in the end: stop complaining! If you think we are incompetent
morons, then scratch your own itches and give something back for all
the apparently crappy stuff we happily give to you for free.
Thanks,
Lennart
--
Lennart Poettering Red Hat, Inc.
lennart [at] poettering [dot] net ICQ# 11060553
http://0pointer.net/lennart/ GnuPG 0x1A015CC4
we're battling with M$, a generally futile
endeavor, and that is
gonna lead to a lot of profanity & name calling. This is after
all, linux, where choice is a talking point.
Hi Gene, I think that the complaint should be aimed at distributions,
really. If they choose to ship foo they should make sure it works.
Which they tend to do to some (large) extent.
I dunno. What I did come away with was that I was on
my own, and that PA
simply ignored the 8 line stanza in my modprobe.conf that makes it all Just
Work when PA is prevented from screwing with things.
ALSA device indexes are not stable anymore, they depend on the driver
initialization order during boot time which is not deterministic
anymore, since this happens in parallel now. That's why PA ignores
them and uses HAL UDIs for identifying audio devices instead. (I
assume that you are referring to the device indexes when you talk
about modprobe.conf).
Without any meaningful docs on how to go about
configuring it, if indeed it is
configurable, the easiest thing to do is remove as much of it as possible
without nukeing kde itself.
There are quite a bit of docs out there. Just check out
http://pulseaudio.org/wiki/Documentation.
In the past all
of us had to realize that the minute we wanted to
deviate from what a distribution considered to be a "standard system"
(like in your case 2 sound devices) we were pretty much on our own.
Yes, that is a given. But in order to do this intelligently, there must be
docs of the 'this does that effect' in existence. Apparently there are none
or URL's would have been offered. So I think
there is a huge demand for more and better integration on
the distribution side, for user tools to make not-so-standard stuff
just work as well. Which is A Lot Of Work, right? We'll get there,
slowly, I'm sure.
Probably, and at about the same pace as NM moves, which is glacial. Dumbassed
typo's fixing takes a year to make it from patch submission to distro
included. That, when it effects 90% of the users, should be a week. Max.