On Tuesday 30 September 2008, Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Tue, 30.09.08 11:19, Gene Heskett
we're battling with M$, a generally futile
endeavor, and that is
gonna lead to a lot of profanity & name calling. This is after
all, linux, where choice is a talking point.
Hi Gene, I think that the complaint should be aimed at distributions,
really. If they choose to ship foo they should make sure it works.
Which they tend to do to some (large) extent.
In the case of Fedora, no, the buck stops there, and I'm made to be the
bad-ass. It looks to me as if they are deliberately shielding the
developers, or maybe they are locked in a closet off the lunch room living
This is utter nonsense.
There are probably no companies that are more open about what their
developers do than Red Hat. Most of us have blogs where it is very
simple to follow what we do. And most of the time they are syndicated
all around the net. Almost all our development happens upstream and
can be followed in git repos and stuff. We attend conferences where we
explain what is going on -- and a lot of them. I post regularly on
mailing lists like this one. We hang around on IRC almost our entire
If you call us shielded off then I wonder what you'd call everyone
I dunno. What I did come away with was that I
was on my own, and that PA
simply ignored the 8 line stanza in my modprobe.conf that makes it all
Just Work when PA is prevented from screwing with things.
ALSA device indexes are not stable anymore, they depend on the driver
initialization order during boot time which is not deterministic
anymore, since this happens in parallel now.
Which explains that, thanks.
That's why PA ignores
them and uses HAL UDIs for identifying audio devices instead. (I
assume that you are referring to the device indexes when you talk
Essentially, yes. Although I don't recall that randomness has ever reared it
head here, running F8, and always a bleeding edge kernel, 2.6.27-rc7-4 ATM.
Can modprobe.conf be trained to use these HAL UDI's?
meaningful docs on how to go about configuring it, if indeed
it is configurable, the easiest thing to do is remove as much of it as
possible without nukeing kde itself.
There are quite a bit of docs out there. Just check out
> >In the past all of us had to realize that the minute we wanted to
> >deviate from what a distribution considered to be a "standard system"
> >(like in your case 2 sound devices) we were pretty much on our own.
> Yes, that is a given. But in order to do this intelligently, there must
> be docs of the 'this does that effect' in existence. Apparently there are
> none or URL's would have been offered.
And now they have been. This msg marked important so kmail won't expire it,
and I'll certainly check them out when I get the video's poor performance in
hand. The R600 ATI chipset support has no acceleration written yet.
How would you like to have them offered? Maybe home
delivered as printed
books? Would that suit you?
Don't be silly. Just a simple 'man pulseaudio' should bring up a URL or two
at the bottom for questions not answered above in the man pages.
Have you ever tried to go to "pulseaudio.org"
if you had a question?
Have you ever tried this thing called "Google"? It's a so called
"search engine" that helps you find things when you don't know where
to look. It's pretty hot stuff!
ISTR I did wind up there once, and it required I setup yet another account,
complete with passwords etc before I could post. I must have 30 of them
things now & the wall is covered with cryptic postits I can no longer
remember what site the noted username & password belong to. CRS reigns
supreme for disagreeable tasks.
As for google, the most common advice I got from there was to nuke it.
Now I'm starting all over with a new motherboard, with a much better 8 channel
audio system, so I might retire the Creative SB0400, Audigy2 and forget about
skype & see if I can make it now work. vz has all the other servers blocked
anyway, so I can never get a confirmation email from any of them except
skype, and as that was 2 years ago, I expect its history now. vz can't stand
the competition I guess.
So I think there is a huge demand for more and better
the distribution side, for user tools to make not-so-standard stuff
just work as well. Which is A Lot Of Work, right? We'll get there,
slowly, I'm sure.
Probably, and at about the same pace as NM moves, which is glacial.
Dumbassed typo's fixing takes a year to make it from patch submission to
distro included. That, when it effects 90% of the users, should be a
Assuming that you mean NetworkManager by "NM": you are underestimating
how much integration work this actually is. The kernel-userspace
interfaces for networking have been total chaos in the past. And it is
getting better. Much better.
Fixing a typu should not require 6 months of testing.
I have always been able to edit the correct ethx file
in /etc/sysconfig/networking and make it work here, totally inhouse fixed
addressing. I use dd-wrt to make the network connection, running on an old
x86 box, headless, driveless. So NM is a solution looking for a problem to
fix that doesn't exist here.
And in the end: stop complaining! If you think we are
morons, then scratch your own itches and give something back for all
the apparently crappy stuff we happily give to you for free.
Were I 20 years younger, which would put me in my mid-50's when I was carving
machine code for 8 bit machines, I most certainly would. But at 74, I find
I'm doing a lot of stuff in bash only. I'm not fully groking the new c99
syntax, its a far cry from either of my K&R Ansi C manuals.
Thank you, Lennart.
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Voiceless it cries,