Hi everyone... I guess it's been more than a year since the last time we discussed such issues here. I am sure that everyone here, aswell as myself, works very hard to mantain and improve their respective apps. Because of it, the intention of this list post is to try to inform myself, aswell as possibly other developers about the status of many things that affect the way we develop our apps under linux. As many of you might remember, there were many fundamental issues regarding the apis and toolkits we use, I will try to enumerate and explain each one of them as best as I can. Please I ask everyone who is more up to date with the status of each to answer, comment, or even add more items. 1- GUI programming, and interface/audio syncronization. As well as I can remember, a great problem of many developers is how to syncronize the interface with the audio thread. Usually, we have the interface running at normal priority and the audio thread running at high priority (SCHED_FIFO) to ensure that it wont get preempted while mixing, specially when working with low latency. For many operations we do (if not most) we can resort to shared memory to do changes, as long as they are not destructive. But when we want to lock, it is most certainly that we will suffer from a priority inversion scenario. Althought POSIX supports functionality to avoid such scenarios from happening (Priority ceiling/inheritance), there are no plans to include support for such anytime soon in Linux (at least for 2.6, from what Andrew Morton told me). Althoght some projects exist, it will not likely to become mainstream for a couple of years (well, low latency patches are not mainstream either, with good reason). I came to find out that the prefered method is to transfer data through a FIFO (due to the userspace lock free nature), althought that can be very annoying for very complex interfaces. What are your experiences on this subject? Is it accepted to lock in cases where a destructive operation is being performed? (granted that if you are doing a mixdown you will not be supposed to be doing that) the audio, or even kill voices when you do a destructive operation, but I dont know what users are supposed to expect. One thing I have to say about this also, is JACKit (and apps written for it ) low tolerance for xruns. I found many apps (or even JACKit itself) would crash or exit when such happens, I understand xruns are bad, but I dont see how they could be problem if you are "editing" (NOT recording/performing) and some destructive operation needs to lock the audio thread for a relatively long time. 2-The role of low latency/Audio and MIDI timing. As much as we love working with low latency (And I personally like controlling softsynths from my roland keyboard). In many cases, if not most? It is not really necesary, and it can be counterproductive, since working in such mode eats a lot of CPU out of the programs. Low latency is ideal when performing LIVE input and you want to hear a processed output. Examples of this are input from a midi controller and output from a softsynth, or input thru a line (guitar for example) and processed output (effects). But Imagine that you dont really need to do that.. you could simply increase the audio buffering size to have latencies up to 20/25 milliseconds, while saving CPU, preventing xruns, and the latency is still perfetly acceptable for working in a sequencer, for example or doing audio mixing of pre-recorded tracks. Doing things this should also ease the pain to softsynth writers, as they wouldnt be FORCED to support low latency for their app to work properly. And despite the point of view of many people, many audio users and programmers dont care about low latency and/or dont need it. But such scenario, at least a year ago, was(is?) not possible under Linux, as softsynths (using ALSA and/orJACKit) have no way to syncronize audio and midi, unless running in low latency mode, where it no longer matters (audio update interval is so small that works as a relatively high resolution timer). Last time I checked, Alsa could not deliver useful timestamping information for this, and JACKit would also not deliver info on when did the audio callback happened. I know back then there were ideas floating aroudn on integrating MIDI capabilities to JACKit to override this problem and provide a more standarized framework. I dont see how should also MIDI sync/clocks help in this case, since it's basically meant for wires or "low latency" frameworks. 3-Host instruments. I remember some discussion on XAP a while ago, but having been to the page recently, I saw no progrerss at all. Is there still really a need on this? (besides the previous point) or is it that ALSA/JACKit do this better, besides prooviding interface abstraction? Also, I never had very clear what is the limitation regarding the implementation of the VST api under linux, granting that so many opensource plugins exist. Is it because of the api being propertary, or similar legal reasons? 4-Interface abstraction for plugins.: We all know how our lovely X11 does not r allow for a sane way of sharing the event loop between toolkits (might this be a good idea for a proposal?) So it is basically impossible to have more than a toolkit in a single process. Because of this, I guess it's impossible and unfair to decide on a toolkit to configure LADSPA plugins from a GUI. I remember Steve Harris proposed the use of (rdf was it?), and plugins may also provide hints, but I still think that such may not be enough if you want to do advanced features such an envelope editor, or visualizations for things such as filter responses, cycles of an oscilator, etc. Has anything happened in the latest months regarding to this issue? 5-Project framework/session management. After much discussion and a proposal, Bob Ham started implementing LADCCA. I think this is a vital component, and will grow even more important granting the complexity that an audio setup can lead to. Imagine if you are runniing a sequencer , many softsynths, effect processors and then a multitrack recorder, all interconnected via ALSA or JACKit.. saving the setup for working later on can be a lifesaver. What is it's state nowadays? And how many applications provide support for it? Well, those are basically my main concerns on the subject, I hope to not have sounded like moron, since that is not my intention at all. I am very happy with the progress of the apps, and It's great to see apps like swami, rosegarden or ardour become mature with the time. Well, cheers to everyone and lets keep working hard! Juan Linietsky