8 Jun
2004
8 Jun
'04
5:09 p.m.
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 20:03 , Chris Cannam <cannam(a)all-day-breakfast.com> sent:
On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 7:16 pm, Frank Barknecht wrote:
They also have the advantage of a more obvious centre position than a
slider, I believe they can be significantly quicker to read, although
not to edit, and they can be placed in meaningful groups more easily.
I think they're a much better GUI element than people give them
credit for.
Right click on any slider in JAMin and it immediately goes to the default
position, whether center or zero. I did this to give you something that works
like a detent. They can be easier to read and they may take up less space than a
slider but why limit yourself to knobs and sliders. There are other ways to
graphically handle controls.
Jan
eviltwin69(a)cableone.net hat gesagt: //
eviltwin69(a)cableone.net
wrote:
Aaaaaarrrrrggghhhh - knobs. One of my pet peeves.
I actually wrote a knob GUI element for Pd, which normally only has
sliders. I see one good application for knobs: Visualizing things
that must not take up much screen space. 
8 Jun
8 Jun
5:14 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?
On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 7:46 pm, eviltwin69(a)cableone.net wrote:
Right click on any slider in JAMin and it
immediately goes to
the default position, whether center or zero.
Ah, now I looked for that feature but didn't find it. In Rosegarden
you double-click to zero a fader. I didn't think of right-clicking.
But what I meant about knobs having a more obvious centre position is
that (a) it's easier to see that one is centred, and (b) it's easier
to see that you're dealing with data that has a concept of a centre.
(Rosegarden of course craps all over this theoretical helpfulness by
using knobs for values that have no centre, as well as using knobs
whose central values are not at the top.)
Chris
7:28 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?
On Tue, 2004-06-08 at 14:22, Chris Cannam wrote:
On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 7:46 pm,
eviltwin69(a)cableone.net wrote:
It's in the context sensitive help.
Right click on any slider in JAMin and it
immediately goes to
the default position, whether center or zero.
Ah, now I looked for that feature but didn't find it. In Rosegarden
you double-click to zero a fader. I didn't think of right-clicking.
But what I meant about knobs having a more obvious
centre position is
that (a) it's easier to see that one is centred, and (b) it's easier
to see that you're dealing with data that has a concept of a centre.
(Rosegarden of course craps all over this theoretical helpfulness by
using knobs for values that have no centre, as well as using knobs
whose central values are not at the top.)
Yes, it's definitely easier to see the position of a knob (usually).
The parametric sliders in the JAMin HDEQ are a result of my not wanting
to use knobs. I think there are probably other ways to replace them as
well.
Jan
9 Jun
9 Jun
4:39 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?
On Tuesday 08 June 2004 20:22, Chris Cannam wrote:
On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 7:46 pm,
eviltwin69(a)cableone.net wrote:
Actually no - you right click in RG to center a fader. Double click doesn't
do anything AFAICT so maybe you dreamt that.
R
Right click on any slider in JAMin and it
immediately goes to
the default position, whether center or zero.
Ah, now I looked for that feature but didn't find it. In Rosegarden
you double-click to zero a fader. I didn't think of right-clicking.
5:24 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?
On Wednesday 09 Jun 2004 7:30 am, Richard Bown wrote:
On Tuesday 08 June 2004 20:22, Chris Cannam wrote:
Ah well here we go again then, an inconsistency. You certainly do
double-click to zero a fader, but (again I hadn't thought to try this
before, but now I just have) you right-click to centre a knob. And
that is centre, rather than reset to default, which seems odd.
(btw, in JAMin it seems you actually middle-click, not right-click, to
reset a fader. At least in the version I have here.)
Chris
On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 7:46 pm,
eviltwin69(a)cableone.net wrote:
Actually no - you right click in RG to center a fader. Double
click doesn't do anything AFAICT so maybe you dreamt that. Right click on any slider in JAMin and it
immediately goes
to the default position, whether center or zero.
Ah, now I looked for that feature but didn't find it. In
Rosegarden you double-click to zero a fader. I didn't think of
right-clicking. 
9:13 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?
On Tuesday 08 June 2004 20:22, Chris Cannam wrote:
and so here we have another wonderful (G)UI conundrum. i don't believe
any of the "HiG's" (Apple, GNOME etc) provide any specification for
such a thing. as a result, with just 3 apps we have:
JAMin: default value = button3 click
context menu = ??
Rosegarden: default value = button3 click
context menu = ??
Ardour: default value ctrl-button2 click
context menu = button3 click
Most *nix and win apps: context menu = button3 click
what to do?
--p
On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 7:46 pm,
eviltwin69(a)cableone.net wrote:
Actually no - you right click in RG to center a fader. Double click doesn't
do anything AFAICT so maybe you dreamt that. Right click on any slider in JAMin and it
immediately goes to
the default position, whether center or zero.
Ah, now I looked for that feature but didn't find it. In Rosegarden
you double-click to zero a fader. I didn't think of right-clicking.
9:22 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?
On Wednesday 09 Jun 2004 12:04 pm, Paul Davis wrote:
JAMin: default value = button3 click
context menu = ??
Rosegarden: default value = button3 click
context menu = ??
Rosegarden is internally inconsistent, because button3 click is for
context menu elsewhere in it. (That's probably why it had never
occurred to me to try using button3 on any of the controller widgets
there or in JAMin.) It's only on the knob widgets that button3
performs a reset.
As I said previously, double-click resets a fader in Rosegarden, so
there's a fourth alternative for your list. Actually I prefer that
to any of the above, but maybe I'm just keen on double-clicking. I
have known other people find double-click really hard to do.
Ardour: default value ctrl-button2 click
context menu = button3 click
Chris
9:38 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?
On Wed, Jun 09, 2004 at 12:31:05PM +0100, Chris Cannam wrote:
On Wednesday 09 Jun 2004 12:04 pm, Paul Davis wrote:
Middle button seems both reasonably logical and not used for anyting else
in this context (pasting into a slider?!).
I might expect double-click to open up a spinner dialogue, so I could
enter values by hand.
- Steve
JAMin: default value = button3 click
context menu = ??
Rosegarden: default value = button3 click
context menu = ??
Rosegarden is internally inconsistent, because button3 click is for
context menu elsewhere in it. (That's probably why it had never
occurred to me to try using button3 on any of the controller widgets
there or in JAMin.) It's only on the knob widgets that button3
performs a reset.
9:57 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?
On Wednesday 09 Jun 2004 12:30 pm, Steve Harris wrote:
Middle button seems both reasonably logical and not
used for
anyting else in this context (pasting into a slider?!).
Dunno about other people but I find middle-click quite hard work with
a wheely mouse, at least without wheeling the wheel accidentally at
the same time.
Chris
10:01 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?
> Ardour: default value ctrl-button2 click
> context menu = button3 click
chris - heh, i am as bad as you! i got ardour's wrong :) default value
is shift-button1. ctrl-button2 initiate MIDI binding.
7:36 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?
Don't feel bad. I got mine right and then thought it was wrong :) Go
figure.
Jan
On Wed, 2004-06-09 at 06:52, Paul Davis wrote:
>
Ardour: default value ctrl-button2 click
> context menu = button3 click
chris - heh, i am as bad as you! i got ardour's wrong :) default value
is shift-button1. ctrl-button2 initiate MIDI binding. 
10 Jun
10 Jun
1:03 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 20:22:24 +0100
Chris Cannam <cannam(a)all-day-breakfast.com> wrote:
On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 7:46 pm,
eviltwin69(a)cableone.net wrote:
Hi, if i might chime into this discussion. I think here's an important point to be
made about UI's that explain themselfes. I once had a look at Wings3D, a 3D-modeler
and it has this very nice feature that tells you what kind of actions are available in the
status bar. So, when you have the mouse over a slider, it could reveal it's mouse
bindings in the status bar. I made a little screenshot. Imagine the mouse pointer over the
greenly highlighted triangle..
http://www.affenbande.org/~tapas/wingsscreen.png
The info in the status bar is context sensitive, so it changes depending on what part of
the gui you use in that moment.. In a hd recorder like ardour, it could be used for
example, when the mouse hovers over a track. Then it shows what kind of action each
mouseclick does on that track, etc. Highly useful!
I have the feeling that in many apps, much power is "hidden" in the UI. So it
would be nice, if it kinda played with open cards, telling you what possible moves you can
make at any point in time. This is especially useful in apps, where much power is
concentrated in mouse manipulation of objects.. But the same applies to sliders, other gui
elements which have non-obvious mouse/key-bindings..
Florian Schmidt
--
Palimm Palimm!
Right click on any slider in JAMin and it
immediately goes to
the default position, whether center or zero.
Ah, now I looked for that feature but didn't find it. In Rosegarden
you double-click to zero a fader. I didn't think of right-clicking. 
7:05 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?
I like this idea, however, in JAMin, we were trying to save real
estate. The status bar is used for JACK status. It would be very easy
to implement this since I've already built focus change detection in for
context sensitive help (shift-F1 over any widget). I don't think I have
enough room to give you a short status for the HDEQ ;-) The help for
that is a full page.
Jan
On Thu, 2004-06-10 at 09:59, Florian Schmidt wrote:
On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 20:22:24 +0100
Chris Cannam <cannam(a)all-day-breakfast.com> wrote:
On Tuesday 08 Jun 2004 7:46 pm,
eviltwin69(a)cableone.net wrote:
Hi, if i might chime into this discussion. I think here's an important point to be
made about UI's that explain themselfes. I once had a look at Wings3D, a 3D-modeler
and it has this very nice feature that tells you what kind of actions are available in the
status bar. So, when you have the mouse over a slider, it could reveal it's mouse
bindings in the status bar. I made a little screenshot. Imagine the mouse pointer over the
greenly highlighted triangle..
http://www.affenbande.org/~tapas/wingsscreen.png
The info in the status bar is context sensitive, so it changes depending on what part of
the gui you use in that moment.. In a hd recorder like ardour, it could be used for
example, when the mouse hovers over a track. Then it shows what kind of action each
mouseclick does on that track, etc. Highly useful!
I have the feeling that in many apps, much power is "hidden" in the UI. So it
would be nice, if it kinda played with open cards, telling you what possible moves you can
make at any point in time. This is especially useful in apps, where much power is
concentrated in mouse manipulation of objects.. But the same applies to sliders, other gui
elements which have non-obvious mouse/key-bindings..
Florian Schmidt Right click on any slider in JAMin and it
immediately goes to
the default position, whether center or zero.
Ah, now I looked for that feature but didn't find it. In Rosegarden
you double-click to zero a fader. I didn't think of right-clicking.
10:28 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Is ladspa actually la-dsp-a? Is JACK the ultimate solution?
On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 15:57:14 -0500
Jan Depner <eviltwin69(a)cableone.net> wrote:
I like this idea, however, in JAMin, we were trying to
save real
estate. The status bar is used for JACK status. It would be very easy
to implement this since I've already built focus change detection in for
context sensitive help (shift-F1 over any widget). I don't think I have
enough room to give you a short status for the HDEQ ;-) The help for
that is a full page.
Nah, you would describe each mouse action. i suppose you mean the graphical EQ? list the
possible modifiers there, etc.. like <shift>-LML = start drawing, etc..
Florian Schmidt
--
Palimm Palimm!
7462
days inactive
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days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
13 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Chris Cannam -
eviltwin69＠cableone.net -
Florian Schmidt -
Jan Depner
-
Paul Davis -
Richard Bown -
Steve Harris