21 Jul
2010
21 Jul
'10
10:14 p.m.
People today aren't able to do a good stereo or mono mix, e.g. because
of the loudness war, but they are thinking of doing 3D mixes.
I'm unable to follow this strange evolution.
We all have 2 ears and 1 brain that has to do a lot of work, regarding
to information from the sense organs. The brain needs to do math because
usually the left and right ear are not equal, so even when wearing a
head phone the brain needs the context of the situation and the perfect
natural loudness etc. for this context.
All thoughts about doing 3D are useless until we aren't able to connect
electrodes directly to our brains and to have a rimming regarding to our
brains.
As long as Cochlear implant isn't good, any try to do 3D mixing is
laughable, resp. a pain, just try to watch AND hear a modern film, it's
a torture.
There are some good mixes for stereo and mono, but at least I never
heard a valid mix with more but one ore two channels.
21 Jul
21 Jul
10:20 p.m.
On Wed, 2010-07-21 at 22:14 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
People today aren't able to do a good stereo or
mono mix, e.g. because
of the loudness war, but they are thinking of doing 3D mixes.
I'm unable to follow this strange evolution.
We all have 2 ears and 1 brain that has to do a lot of work, regarding
to information from the sense organs. The brain needs to do math because
usually the left and right ear are not equal, so even when wearing a
head phone the brain needs the context of the situation and the perfect
natural loudness etc. for this context.
All thoughts about doing 3D are useless until we aren't able to connect
electrodes directly to our brains and to have a
rimming
TRIMMING
regarding to our
brains.
As long as Cochlear implant isn't good, any try to do 3D mixing is
laughable, resp. a pain, just try to watch AND hear a modern film, it's
a torture.
There are some good mixes for stereo and mono, but at least I never
heard a valid mix with more but one ore two channels.
10:24 p.m.
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 10:14:37PM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
All thoughts about doing 3D are useless until we
aren't able to connect
electrodes directly to our brains and to have a rimming regarding to our
brains.
Nonsense.
As long as Cochlear implant isn't good, any try to
do 3D mixing is
laughable, resp. a pain, just try to watch AND hear a modern film, it's
a torture.
A bad example is a bad example. Standard film sound systems making
a mess of it doesn't mean there is no alternative.
There are some good mixes for stereo and mono, but at
least I never
heard a valid mix with more but one ore two channels.
You've been missing a lot.
--
Ciao,
There are three of them, and Alleline.
10:31 p.m.
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 9:14 PM, Ralf Mardorf <ralf.mardorf(a)alice-dsl.net>wrote;wrote:
People today aren't able to do a good stereo or
mono mix, e.g. because
of the loudness war, but they are thinking of doing 3D mixes.
I'm unable to follow this strange evolution.
That's ok. I don't understand DSP. I don't think anybody understands
everything.
But please have some respect for other peoples projects / jobs / hobbies
etc.
We all have 2 ears and 1 brain that has to do a lot of
work, regarding
to information from the sense organs. The brain needs to do math because
usually the left and right ear are not equal, so even when wearing a
head phone the brain needs the context of the situation and the perfect
natural loudness etc. for this context.
All thoughts about doing 3D are useless until we aren't able to connect
electrodes directly to our brains and to have a rimming regarding to our
brains.
I don't fully know what your trying to get at here, but I'm sure your
aware
that
each persons ears are unique, and hence as the brain "un-filters" audio and
makes
sense of it, it takes the filtering of the ears' shape into account and can
construct
a better understanding of the audio.
This is simple not possible with sterio. Or mono for that matter.
Ambisonics, or
5.1 setups do allow for these principles to be used.
As long as Cochlear implant isn't good, any try to
do 3D mixing is
laughable, resp. a pain, just try to watch AND hear a modern film, it's
a torture.
There are some good mixes for stereo and mono, but at least I never
heard a valid mix with more but one ore two channels.
Again I'm struggling to see what your saying with regards to the cochlear
implant,
but again I'll request you to respect other people, and thier work. After
all, who knows,
maybe they wanted to do a sterio mix, but thier company said "no we do 5.1".
-Harry
22 Jul
22 Jul
12:11 p.m.
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
People today aren't able to do a good stereo or
mono mix, e.g. because
of the loudness war, but they are thinking of doing 3D mixes.
I'm unable to follow this strange evolution.
I did have a bit of mistrust in 3D (although with less extreme feelings
than yours), and especially based on cheezy and naive use in many films...
That was till we did an ambisonics recording and playback experiment,
also comparing other 2-dimensional recording configurations. You should
really try it!
Also 3D meaning more than 2 channels positioned in space has lots of
creative potential (i.e. not using it to reproduce a recorded sonic
space, but creating it from zero)
Lorenzo.
We all have 2 ears and 1 brain that has to do a lot of
work, regarding
to information from the sense organs. The brain needs to do math because
usually the left and right ear are not equal, so even when wearing a
head phone the brain needs the context of the situation and the perfect
natural loudness etc. for this context.
All thoughts about doing 3D are useless until we aren't able to connect
electrodes directly to our brains and to have a rimming regarding to our
brains.
As long as Cochlear implant isn't good, any try to do 3D mixing is
laughable, resp. a pain, just try to watch AND hear a modern film, it's
a torture.
There are some good mixes for stereo and mono, but at least I never
heard a valid mix with more but one ore two channels.
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Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
25 Jul
25 Jul
5:21 p.m.
Ralf Mardorf wrote:
People today aren't able to do a good stereo or
mono mix, e.g. because
of the loudness war, but they are thinking of doing 3D mixes.
I'm unable to follow this strange evolution.
We all have 2 ears and 1 brain that has to do a lot of work, regarding
to information from the sense organs. The brain needs to do math because
usually the left and right ear are not equal, so even when wearing a
head phone the brain needs the context of the situation and the perfect
natural loudness etc. for this context.
All thoughts about doing 3D are useless until we aren't able to connect
electrodes directly to our brains and to have a rimming regarding to our
brains.
As long as Cochlear implant isn't good, any try to do 3D mixing is
laughable, resp. a pain, just try to watch AND hear a modern film, it's
a torture.
There are some good mixes for stereo and mono, but at least I never
heard a valid mix with more but one ore two channels.
I've been to Jörn Nettingsmeier's workshop at LAC2010 and that was 3D
allright. And the good thing was, the complete recording and mixing was
done with Linux.
Best,
Jeremy
5:40 p.m.
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 05:21:17PM +0200, Jeremy Jongepier wrote:
It was 2D Ambisonics actually, using 8 speakers. 3D (with height)
is yet another experience.
--
FA
There are three of them, and Alleline.
There are some
good mixes for stereo and mono, but at least I never
heard a valid mix with more but one ore two channels.
I've been to Jörn Nettingsmeier's workshop at LAC2010 and that was 3D
allright. And the good thing was, the complete recording and mixing was
done with Linux.
6:03 p.m.
On Sun, 2010-07-25 at 17:40 +0200, fons(a)kokkinizita.net wrote:
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 05:21:17PM +0200, Jeremy
Jongepier wrote:
It was 2D Ambisonics actually, using 8 speakers. 3D (with height)
is yet another experience.
It doesn't matter. I was wrong about my general (mis)judgement about
surround. This doesn't mean that I'm fine with Ambisonics. I don't know
it until now, because I didn't tested it, but for sure I was mistaken,
because my experiences regarding to surround are outdated, resp.
Ambisonics itself is as old as I'm, but less known.
I try not to be more royalist than the king.
As I mentioned before, even for '2D' IMO = stereo, I don't use the given
abilities, because I tend to do stereo mixes compatible to mono.
I'm not fine with 5.1 (or what ever the equivalent for movies is called)
when watching a Hollywood movies. Somebody did mention that it even
isn't 5.1 what I don't like, but the usage of 5.1.
IMO more enlightenment is needed.
I'm completely outdated, other people might confuse '3D' with '2D'.
IMO the current possibilities are less known.
;)
Ralf
There are
some good mixes for stereo and mono, but at least I never
heard a valid mix with more but one ore two channels.
I've been to Jörn Nettingsmeier's workshop at LAC2010 and that was 3D
allright. And the good thing was, the complete recording and mixing was
done with Linux.
6:12 p.m.
On Sun, 2010-07-25 at 18:03 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
On Sun, 2010-07-25 at 17:40 +0200,
fons(a)kokkinizita.net wrote:
PS: Using the dummy head effects for headphones = left + right + ahead +
behind ... without headphones stereo is more limited ;).
I guess overhead and bottom is another very special issue.
On Sun, Jul 25, 2010 at 05:21:17PM +0200, Jeremy
Jongepier wrote:
It was 2D Ambisonics actually, using 8 speakers. 3D (with height)
is yet another experience.
It doesn't matter. I was wrong about my general (mis)judgement about
surround. This doesn't mean that I'm fine with Ambisonics. I don't know
it until now, because I didn't tested it, but for sure I was mistaken,
because my experiences regarding to surround are outdated, resp.
Ambisonics itself is as old as I'm, but less known.
I try not to be more royalist than the king.
As I mentioned before, even for '2D' IMO = stereo, There are
some good mixes for stereo and mono, but at least I never
heard a valid mix with more but one ore two channels.
I've been to Jörn Nettingsmeier's workshop at LAC2010 and that was 3D
allright. And the good thing was, the complete recording and mixing was
done with Linux. I don't use the given
abilities, because I tend to do stereo mixes compatible to mono.
I'm not fine with 5.1 (or what ever the equivalent for movies is called)
when watching a Hollywood movies. Somebody did mention that it even
isn't 5.1 what I don't like, but the usage of 5.1.
IMO more enlightenment is needed.
I'm completely outdated, other people might confuse '3D' with '2D'.
IMO the current possibilities are less known.
;)
Ralf
5327
days inactive
5331
days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
8 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
fons＠kokkinizita.net -
Harry Van Haaren -
Jeremy Jongepier -
Lorenzo -
Ralf Mardorf