25 Oct
2005
25 Oct
'05
11:38 a.m.
I'm going to convert my fathers record collection over to CD. Doing
some google research.
According to http://www.tracertek.com/newway.htm they claim the "new"
and best way to do LP to CD is to use a flat preamp, record at 24bit,
96kHz and then apply the RIAA curve in software after the fact.
Either before or after the DeNoise, De-Click, etc depending. I've
also seen a few other sites that say the same type things.
tracertek sells doze software to do the whole ball of wax but I'd like
to use Linux.
I haven't found any RIAA filters yet so I guess I'm looking at
writeing one. So does anyone have any information on where to find
the official RIAA curve to make a plugin from?
They also recommend using a pink-noise record to calibrate your setup
and then adjust the curve so it matches your system.
--
Richard A. Smith
25 Oct
25 Oct
11:48 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
I haven't found any RIAA filters yet so I guess
I'm looking at
writeing one. So does anyone have any information on where to find
the official RIAA curve to make a plugin from?
Ok. So my orginal google was too tight. "RIAA cuve" yeilds this
http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/audio/riaa.htm
So now I just need to stick this in a plugin filter. Any suggestions
on the "best" way for this? LADSPA, or perhaps a filter for a
different app? Considering that I'm going to want to automate this so
I can just sic it on a directory full of LP recordings what would be
the groups suggestions.
--
Richard A. Smith
11:58 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
different app? Considering that I'm going to want
to automate this so
I can just sic it on a directory full of LP recordings what would be
the groups suggestions.
I really should learn how to use google better I guess.
So it looks like JAM already does what I want. Sweet. I'm still
takeing suggestions if anyone has any experience with this type stuff.
Perhaps some suggestions on using a pink noise LP and "adjusting" the curve.
--
Richard A. Smith
11:56 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 08:38:18AM -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
I haven't found any RIAA filters yet so I guess
I'm looking at
writeing one. So does anyone have any information on where to find
the official RIAA curve to make a plugin from?
The curve as used in most preamps is the combination of
two filtering operations:
- a -6dB / octave filter (i.e. integrator) to compensate for
the velocity response of a magnetic pickup,
- the real RIAA curve.
Combining the two gives a filter like this:
(use a monospaced font to view this)
______
\
\
\__________
\
\
\
\
The corners are at 50, 500, and 2120 Hz IIRC.
Slope is -6dB / octave, so the weighted sum of two
first order lowpass filters is all you need.
--
FA
1:07 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On 10/26/05, Richard Smith <smithbone(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Is there some sane reason for not just using a turntable preamp? The
phono signal level is quite low and i'm assuming recording it as line
level and amping in software isn't the nicest or easiest way to do it.
I really fail to see the positives. I record stuff from vinyl on a
regular basis, so i can hear my mistakes, as i'm a dj. All
professionally produced cd's mastered from vinyl (i.e any dj mix cd
like global underground) are done through normal phono preamps.
Easiest and best solution i think.
Loki
The corners are at 50, 500, and 2120 Hz IIRC.
Slope is -6dB / octave, so the weighted sum of two
first order lowpass filters is all you need.
Do you know if the RIAA_EQ in JAM includes this?
--
Richard A. Smith
1:21 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
Is there some sane reason for not just using a turntable preamp? The
phono signal level is quite low and i'm assuming recording it as line
http://www.tracertek.com/newway.htm
You use a preamp but its flat rather than RIAA. Then you de-noise,
and de-click and then apply your pink noise "corrected" RIAA filter to
the end result.
--
Richard A. Smith
1:48 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
Richard Smith wrote:
Quite a lot of words. I´m impressed. And convinced ...
... of the fact, that these guys just want to sell their stuff.
If you have a decent phono preamp, use it and forget all about that
tracertek advertising hype.
--
Klaus Kosten
Is there some
sane reason for not just using a turntable preamp? The
phono signal level is quite low and i'm assuming recording it as line
http://www.tracertek.com/newway.htm
4:35 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
Quite a lot of words. I´m impressed. And convinced
...
... of the fact, that these guys just want to sell their stuff.
You really think its just all hype? Sort of made sense to me. If you
do click and pop removal prior to the un-RIAA. Then that will go that
much further to reduce the noise since its all high-frequency.
If you have a decent phono preamp, use it and forget
all about that
tracertek advertising hype.
I don't have a preamp at all. Thats part of what led me to that page.
Recommendations?
--
Richard A. Smith
5:18 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On Tuesday 25 October 2005 14:35, Richard Smith wrote:
I don't have a preamp at all. Â Thats part of what
led me to that page.
 Recommendations?
Well, you're going to want *some* sort of preamp. One with
selectable/defeatable EQ curves would presumably be best.
This will also be dependent upon the age of the specific recordings being
transferred. Early on in the industry, each record company had their own
'proprietary' curve, and high-end players had the ability to select which
curve to use. That was why the RIAA eventually stepped in (late 40s?) and
developed a standard that all the companies could agree on.
Cheers!
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Director of Broadcast Software Development |
| | Salem Radio Labs |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to |
| choose from. |
| -- Andrew S. Tanenbaum |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
5:36 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On 10/25/05, Fred Gleason <fredg(a)salemradiolabs.com> wrote:
On Tuesday 25 October 2005 14:35, Richard Smith
wrote:
That seems to be exactly what the tracertek page was saying. There is
no one "right" way to un-RIAA a record. So why not do it in software
where you can tweak with it.
I *know* I need a preamp. The question is just which one?
Oh yeah I forgot to mention that I also have some 78's that mix and
not just 33's
--
Richard A. Smith
I don't have a preamp at all. Thats part of
what led me to that page.
Recommendations?
Well, you're going to want *some* sort of preamp. One with
selectable/defeatable EQ curves would presumably be best.
This will also be dependent upon the age of the specific recordings being
transferred. Early on in the industry, each record company had their own
'proprietary' curve, and high-end players had the ability to select which
curve to use. That was why the RIAA eventually stepped in (late 40s?) and
developed a standard that all the companies could agree on.
2:19 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On Wed, Oct 26, 2005 at 01:07:33AM +1000, Loki Davison wrote:
Is there some sane reason for not just using a
turntable preamp? The
phono signal level is quite low and i'm assuming recording it as line
level and amping in software isn't the nicest or easiest way to do it.
I really fail to see the positives. I record stuff from vinyl on a
regular basis, so i can hear my mistakes, as i'm a dj. All
professionally produced cd's mastered from vinyl (i.e any dj mix cd
like global underground) are done through normal phono preamps.
Easiest and best solution i think.
Recording without a preamp into line or mic input seems a bad idea.
A preamp is still needed to 1. get normal levels, 2. present the
correct impedance to the pickup. Mic input have relative low impedance
and will give horrible results, and line in will not be sensitive
enough.
But moving the EQ to after the 'restoration' may be a good idea.
--
FA
12:21 p.m.
On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 08:38:18 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
I'm going to convert my fathers record collection
over to CD. Doing
some google research.
According to http://www.tracertek.com/newway.htm they claim the "new"
and best way to do LP to CD is to use a flat preamp, record at 24bit,
96kHz and then apply the RIAA curve in software after the fact.
Either before or after the DeNoise, De-Click, etc depending. I've
also seen a few other sites that say the same type things.
I think Jan Depner made a jamin preset to do that.
- Steve
7:51 p.m.
On Tue, 2005-10-25 at 08:38, Richard Smith wrote:
I'm going to convert my fathers record collection
over to CD. Doing
some google research.
According to http://www.tracertek.com/newway.htm they claim the "new"
and best way to do LP to CD is to use a flat preamp, record at 24bit,
96kHz and then apply the RIAA curve in software after the fact.
Either before or after the DeNoise, De-Click, etc depending. I've
also seen a few other sites that say the same type things.
tracertek sells doze software to do the whole ball of wax but I'd like
to use Linux.
I haven't found any RIAA filters yet so I guess I'm looking at
writeing one. So does anyone have any information on where to find
the official RIAA curve to make a plugin from?
They also recommend using a pink-noise record to calibrate your setup
and then adjust the curve so it matches your system.
If you download JAMin you'll find that I've already put the RIAA
curve in the sample .jam files. I've used this to record directly from
album to 24/96 with no preamp. It works fine.
--
Jan "Evil Twin" Depner
The Fuzzy Dice
http://www.thefuzzydice.com
"As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this
we should do freely and generously."
Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of
Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744
8:04 p.m.
If you download JAMin you'll find that
I've already put the RIAA
curve in the sample .jam files. I've used this to record directly from
album to 24/96 with no preamp. It works fine.
Sweet. What input did you use on your soundcard? Can I yak with you
off list? This is getting kinda OT for LAD.
--
Richard A. Smith
8:09 p.m.
On Tue, 2005-10-25 at 12:06, Jan Depner wrote:
On Tue, 2005-10-25 at 08:38, Richard Smith wrote:
Wait, let me rephrase that - with no RIAA preamp. I do use a preamp
for the signal.
--
Jan "Evil Twin" Depner
The Fuzzy Dice
http://www.thefuzzydice.com
"As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this
we should do freely and generously."
Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of
Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744
I'm going to convert my fathers record
collection over to CD. Doing
some google research.
According to http://www.tracertek.com/newway.htm they claim the "new"
and best way to do LP to CD is to use a flat preamp, record at 24bit,
96kHz and then apply the RIAA curve in software after the fact.
Either before or after the DeNoise, De-Click, etc depending. I've
also seen a few other sites that say the same type things.
tracertek sells doze software to do the whole ball of wax but I'd like
to use Linux.
I haven't found any RIAA filters yet so I guess I'm looking at
writeing one. So does anyone have any information on where to find
the official RIAA curve to make a plugin from?
They also recommend using a pink-noise record to calibrate your setup
and then adjust the curve so it matches your system.
If you download JAMin you'll find that I've already put the RIAA
curve in the sample .jam files. I've used this to record directly from
album to 24/96 with no preamp. It works fine. 
9:23 p.m.
On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 12:24:39PM -0500, Jan Depner wrote:
I don't want to bring down the great work done by Jamin's authors, but
if fidelity is among you goals then using Jamin for RIAA equalisation
would be a bad idea.
First, Jamin's FFT based filtering can be quite inaccurate at low
frequencies. For example, push up the 31 Hz slider and measure
the result. This is because of the limited resolution of the FFT
at LF, and you can probably get around this problem by trial and
error.
Second, the general 1/F slope of the RIAA curve when combined with
cartridge equalisation should produce a -90 degrees phase shift
over most of the audio band. When you synthesize such a curve with
a multiband EQ, you will not have that phase shift, and any percussive
or transient sounds will be affected. You can easily hear this on
some instruments.
It's quite simple to make an RIAA filter with for example two
first order lowpass LADSPA plugins. Put them in parallel, set
one to 50 Hz and the second to 2120 Hz. Mix the outputs in the
ratio 9 to 1, and the result will be a *perfect* RIAA filter.
--
FA
If you
download JAMin you'll find that I've already put the RIAA
curve in the sample .jam files. I've used this to record directly from
album to 24/96 with no preamp. It works fine.
Wait, let me rephrase that - with no RIAA preamp. I do use a preamp
for the signal.
9:47 p.m.
I don't want to bring down the great work done by
Jamin's authors, but
if fidelity is among you goals then using Jamin for RIAA equalisation
would be a bad idea.
Fidelity is in fact the primary goal.
It's quite simple to make an RIAA filter with for example two
first order lowpass LADSPA plugins. Put them in parallel, set
one to 50 Hz and the second to 2120 Hz. Mix the outputs in the
ratio 9 to 1, and the result will be a *perfect* RIAA filter.
Which one is 9 the 50 or the 2120?
Any suggestions on what program I can use to run these? Audacity will
do LADSPA plugings but I rather something I can script.
--
Richard A. Smith
10:48 p.m.
On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 06:47:51PM -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
Which one is 9 the 50 or the 2120?
Any suggestions on what program I can use to run these? Audacity will
do LADSPA plugings but I rather something I can script.
Filter 1: F = 50 Hz, A = 9
Filter 2: F = 2120 Hz, A = 1
and add the two outputs.
The first one produces the first downward 'corner' at 50 Hz, and
the second one the downward corner at 2120 Hz. The combination of
the two gives the 'upward' corner at 50 * (1 + 9) / 1 = 500 Hz.
--
FA
26 Oct
26 Oct
12:16 a.m.
Which one is 9
the 50 or the 2120?
Any suggestions on what program I can use to run these? Audacity will
do LADSPA plugings but I rather something I can script.
Filter 1: F = 50 Hz, A = 9
Filter 2: F = 2120 Hz, A = 1
and add the two outputs. The calibration only makes sense if you have a disc
with pink noise
recorded on it - the filter itself (being numerical) will be exact.
tracertek sells such a lp. Or at least they claim to. If nothing
else such a lp would let me see how various cartridges perform on the
player.
So do you think there is merit in the whole scheme or is it all just hype?
1. Sample with a flat preamp at 24/96k.
2. fix all the snap and pop.
3. Apply your dual filters with pink correction. Salted to taste.
--
Richard A. Smith
12:21 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On 10/26/05, fons adriaensen <fons.adriaensen(a)skynet.be> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 06:47:51PM -0500, Richard
Smith wrote:
In response to the noise remove and restoration, are you using decent
needles btw? Though i still recommend a real preamp much more
important are decent needles. Ortofon makes great stuff and it's what
i use. I recommend any of the OM E series, they are (relatively) cheap
and really nice. The OM 5 E works really well if it's just for
recording use. I use the concord Elektro for normal use.
Loki
Which one is 9 the 50 or the 2120?
Any suggestions on what program I can use to run these? Audacity will
do LADSPA plugings but I rather something I can script.
Filter 1: F = 50 Hz, A = 9
Filter 2: F = 2120 Hz, A = 1
and add the two outputs.
The first one produces the first downward 'corner' at 50 Hz, and
the second one the downward corner at 2120 Hz. The combination of
the two gives the 'upward' corner at 50 * (1 + 9) / 1 = 500 Hz.
--
FA
3:02 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
In response to the noise remove and restoration, are you using decent
needles btw? Though i still recommend a real preamp much more
Perhpas I need to find a pre-amp that can do both? Then I can do an
A-B comparison. Using a RIAA pre-amp certainly makes it easier.
important are decent needles. Ortofon makes great
stuff and it's what
i use. I recommend any of the OM E series, they are (relatively) cheap
and really nice. The OM 5 E works really well if it's just for
recording use. I use the concord Elektro for normal use.
The turntable is an AIWA D60 but it hasn't been fired up in many
years. I hope it still works. I found an old Realistic pre-amp and a
JVC stereo unit that has phono inputs so I will check it in the near
future.
I have no idea what kind of needle is on the player. But thanks for
the tip. Where are you buying these from? And do they also have
needles for a 78?
I read a page that said you can sample a 78 lp at a lower RPM and
sample rate and then change the sample rate to make it sound right.
Basically I cleared all this stuff out for my Dad and though it would
be cool to put all his records on CD's. Most of it are 33s but theres
one or 2 78s that belonged to my grandfather.
--
Richard A. Smith
3:35 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On 10/26/05, Richard Smith <smithbone(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The turntable is an AIWA D60 but it hasn't been
fired up in many
years. I hope it still works. I found an old Realistic pre-amp and a
JVC stereo unit that has phono inputs so I will check it in the near
future.
Fidelity is important, but you're not sure if the turntable you plan
on using even works, let alone sounds good? Have you considered
obtaining a good turntable?
4:12 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
years. I hope
it still works. I found an old Realistic pre-amp and a
JVC stereo unit that has phono inputs so I will check it in the near
future.
Fidelity is important, but you're not sure if the turntable you plan
on using even works, let alone sounds good? Have you considered
obtaining a good turntable?
28 Oct
28 Oct
12:01 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On 10/26/05, Richard Smith <smithbone(a)gmail.com> wrote:
ohh... AIWA D60 mmm. Well, it's not really what i'd call a famously
decent brand. Not that i no anything about hi-fi turntables but my
technics sl1200's are quite nice ;-) though probably not the price
range or style your interested in. A decent turntable will help a lot,
especially if that one is an arse to mount standard needles/headshells
on. Ortofon have specific 78 needles though it means extra cost, as
you have to buy a 78 and a normal needle. Changing the speed in
software seems like it would be horrible to me. Buy or borrow a decent
turntable. A few modern ones can play all three, for instance stuff
from stanton. Though don't touch there needles, they are crap. To
the question where am i buying these from, my local record shop or
online. Though if you're not in AU it might not be handy ;-)
Loki
In response to the noise remove and restoration, are you using decent
needles btw? Though i still recommend a real preamp much more
Perhpas I need to find a pre-amp that can do both? Then I can do an
A-B comparison. Using a RIAA pre-amp certainly makes it easier.
important are decent needles. Ortofon makes great
stuff and it's what
i use. I recommend any of the OM E series, they are (relatively) cheap
and really nice. The OM 5 E works really well if it's just for
recording use. I use the concord Elektro for normal use.
The turntable is an AIWA D60 but it hasn't been fired up in many
years. I hope it still works. I found an old Realistic pre-amp and a
JVC stereo unit that has phono inputs so I will check it in the near
future.
I have no idea what kind of needle is on the player. But thanks for
the tip. Where are you buying these from? And do they also have
needles for a 78?
I read a page that said you can sample a 78 lp at a lower RPM and
sample rate and then change the sample rate to make it sound right.
Basically I cleared all this stuff out for my Dad and though it would
be cool to put all his records on CD's. Most of it are 33s but theres
one or 2 78s that belonged to my grandfather.
--
Richard A. Smith
4:58 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On 10/27/05, Loki Davison <loki.davison(a)gmail.com> wrote:
ohh... AIWA D60 mmm. Well, it's not really what
i'd call a famously
decent brand.
Ok well maybe my fathers choice wan't so great then. :)
I guess if my source isn't so good then all this other stuff my just
be overkill. I'll just have to get it all setup and let my ear
decide.
Which brings me to my next post...
--
Richard A. Smith
29 Oct
29 Oct
1:10 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
software seems like it would be horrible to me. Buy or
borrow a decent
turntable. A few modern ones can play all three, for instance stuff
from stanton. Though don't touch there needles, they are crap. To
This may be getting too OT so let me know if I need go off-list.
I've been looking at some turntables from Stanton. How do the DJ tables fair?
Fex. The stanton STR8-100 looks sweet. It has S-PDIF, phono, and line
outputs and it will play 78's. I can get a used one off of ebay for
$100 bucks or so. Most of the other decks I saw are just a bit out
of my range.
That lets me do a flat preamp if I choose to mess with all that, but I
can also just use the S-PDIF or Line with the built in RIAA. And 78's
without resorting to software correction.
I didn't realize the S/N ratio on turntables was so low. What would
those who on have messed with this before consider acceptable?
--
Richard A. Smith
4:09 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On Sat, 2005-10-29 at 10:10 -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
i have a music hall turntable, and it is the paragon of great design
(glass platter!), reasonable cost and sweet sound. i have the mmf-5 with
a goldring cartridge, feeding a NAD phono preamp.
i am not sure what the availability is in europe, but they are made in
the czech republic so ...
--p
software seems
like it would be horrible to me. Buy or borrow a decent
turntable. A few modern ones can play all three, for instance stuff
from stanton. Though don't touch there needles, they are crap. To
This may be getting too OT so let me know if I need go off-list.
I've been looking at some turntables from Stanton. How do the DJ tables fair?
4:50 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On Saturday 29 Oct 2005 19:11, Paul Davis wrote:
i have a music hall turntable, and it is the paragon
of great design
(glass platter!), reasonable cost and sweet sound. i have the mmf-5
with a goldring cartridge, feeding a NAD phono preamp.
i am not sure what the availability is in europe, but they are made
in the czech republic so ...
I think these are basically the same thing as the Pro-ject turntables,
highly regarded, nice to look at, and widely available in Europe (and
also relatively cheap and made in the Czech republic).
http://www.project-audio.com/en/turntables.html
I use an ancient Thorens TD-150 I picked up on eBay. It's a bit
battered, but a lovely turntable. Also a Goldring cartridge (a 1042).
I do still buy records, mostly second-hand classical recordings.
Chris
7:04 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On Sat, 2005-10-29 at 14:11 -0400, Paul Davis wrote:
i have a music hall turntable, and it is the paragon
of great design
(glass platter!), reasonable cost and sweet sound. i have the mmf-5 with
a goldring cartridge, feeding a NAD phono preamp.
In europe there's good availability of Pro-Ject turntables
(http://www.project-audio.com). I have a Pro-Ject RPM-4 turntable with
Grado Labs' (http://www.gradolabs.com) Gold MI cartridge which goes up
to 50 kHz in frequency response. Very good for playing direct-cut
vinyls. They also have cartridges for 78 rpm. Pro-Ject also makes phono
preamps, but I have a Creek audio's preamp
(http://www.creekaudio.co.uk/main_content.asp?
catlook=obh&content=obhseries). I've transferred number of vinyls to CD
using this equipment with very good results. Wish there were open source
or even Linux software for authoring DVD-Audio discs to take full
advantage of capabilities of vinyl hardware...
--
Jussi Laako <jussi.laako(a)pp.inet.fi>
7:39 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On Saturday 29 Oct 2005 22:04, Jussi Laako wrote:
I've transferred number of vinyls to
CD using this equipment with very good results. Wish there were open
source or even Linux software for authoring DVD-Audio discs to take
full advantage of capabilities of vinyl hardware...
Do you really think you can tell the difference between an LP and the
same LP transferred to CD? (Assuming a decent CD player, and decent
hardware used to do the transfer.)
I have some pretty good equipment to hand, but much as I love the sound
of LPs, I honestly can't tell the difference between LP originals and
CDs burned from them. (I mix and match the two fairly freely, so I'm
quite confident about that.) As far as I'm concerned, the attractive
sound of LPs is a fortuitous accident of distortion rather than any
particular enhanced capability of the hardware.
Chris
9:31 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On Sat, 2005-10-29 at 22:41 +0100, Chris Cannam wrote:
Do you really think you can tell the difference
between an LP and the
same LP transferred to CD? (Assuming a decent CD player, and decent
hardware used to do the transfer.)
I have some pretty good equipment to hand, but much as I love the sound
of LPs, I honestly can't tell the difference between LP originals and
CDs burned from them.
Depends on equipment and especially on material. There's huge variation
on quality of vinyls available. Yes, with all-analog recorded direct cut
LP's and equipment capable of going up to 50 kHz. Or even better with
equipment with nice phase response capabilities, like full range
loudspeakers (electrostatics or magnetostatics).
With 24-bit, 96 or 192 kHz recording it's way much harder. With digital
recording/playback, most of the quality "problems" comes out of digital
and analog filtering involved.
--
Jussi Laako <jussi.laako(a)pp.inet.fi>
10:08 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: applying RIAA curves in software
On 10/30/05, Richard Smith <smithbone(a)gmail.com> wrote:
STR8-100 are nice. Solid, reliable and not too expensive. I've never
tried the s-pdif on it and unless you have a pretty crap sound card
(anything by creative) i'd assume it's worse than just recording the
analog. But the analog should be quite nice. Playing 78's on a modern
turntable is a cool feature. Get this and the cheapest ortofon e
needles you can get.
Loki
software seems
like it would be horrible to me. Buy or borrow a decent
turntable. A few modern ones can play all three, for instance stuff
from stanton. Though don't touch there needles, they are crap. To
This may be getting too OT so let me know if I need go off-list.
I've been looking at some turntables from Stanton. How do the DJ tables
fair?
Fex. The stanton STR8-100 looks sweet. It has S-PDIF, phono, and line
outputs and it will play 78's. I can get a used one off of ebay for
$100 bucks or so. Most of the other decks I saw are just a bit out
of my range.
That lets me do a flat preamp if I choose to mess with all that, but I
can also just use the S-PDIF or Line with the built in RIAA. And 78's
without resorting to software correction.
I didn't realize the S/N ratio on turntables was so low. What would
those who on have messed with this before consider acceptable?
--
Richard A. Smith
10:10 a.m.
On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 02:41 +0200, fons adriaensen wrote:
On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 06:47:51PM -0500, Richard
Smith wrote:
Which one is 9 the 50 or the 2120?
Any suggestions on what program I can use to run these? Audacity will
do LADSPA plugings but I rather something I can script.
Filter 1: F = 50 Hz, A = 9
Filter 2: F = 2120 Hz, A = 1
and add the two outputs. From quality point of view, at least I would recommend
using IIR filters
for this...
Unless digital'ish sound is preferred... ;)
--
Jussi Laako <jussi.laako(a)pp.inet.fi>
12:24 p.m.
From quality
point of view, at least I would recommend using IIR filters
for this...
Unless digital'ish sound is preferred... ;)
12:36 p.m.
On Sat, Oct 29, 2005 at 03:10:50PM +0300, Jussi Laako wrote:
On Wed, 2005-10-26 at 02:41 +0200, fons adriaensen
wrote:
Could you explain ? The (trivially simple) first order lowpass sections
will have the correct amplitude _and_ phase response.
Filter 1: F = 50 Hz, A = 9
Filter 2: F = 2120 Hz, A = 1
and add the two outputs.
From quality point of view, at least I would
recommend using IIR filters
for this... Unless digital'ish sound is preferred... ;)
What the **** is "digital'ish" sound, and how is it relevant here ?
--
FA
26 Oct
26 Oct
8:04 a.m.
On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 06:47:51PM -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
ecasound? The option format is a bit obtuse, but youve only got to figure
it out once, right :)
- Steve
I don't
want to bring down the great work done by Jamin's authors, but
if fidelity is among you goals then using Jamin for RIAA equalisation
would be a bad idea.
Fidelity is in fact the primary goal.
It's quite simple to make an RIAA filter with for example two
first order lowpass LADSPA plugins. Put them in parallel, set
one to 50 Hz and the second to 2120 Hz. Mix the outputs in the
ratio 9 to 1, and the result will be a *perfect* RIAA filter.
Which one is 9 the 50 or the 2120?
Any suggestions on what program I can use to run these? Audacity will
do LADSPA plugings but I rather something I can script.
11:06 a.m.
ecasound? The option format is a bit obtuse, but youve only got to figure
it out once, right :)
Looks like exactly what I need. The option stuff seems fairly
intuitive so far. It has the -efl option which is a low pass filter
built in but there isn't a gain setting. So I'm not quite sure on the
best way to do the gains. I'm not sure that using the amplify -ea
option will do the same thing.
Is there are particular LADSPA low pass filter that would be best
suited for this?
--
Richard A. Smith
25 Oct
25 Oct
9:52 p.m.
one to 50 Hz and the second to 2120 Hz. Mix the
outputs in the
ratio 9 to 1, and the result will be a *perfect* RIAA filter.
What's your take on the pink noise calibration? I'm not sure yet if
I'm going to go to that much trouble but if I did how easy is it to
convert that to a LADSPA filter?
--
Richard A. Smith
10:48 p.m.
On Tue, Oct 25, 2005 at 06:52:05PM -0500, Richard Smith wrote:
What's your take on the pink noise calibration?
I'm not sure yet if
I'm going to go to that much trouble but if I did how easy is it to
convert that to a LADSPA filter?
The calibration only makes sense if you have a disc with pink noise
recorded on it - the filter itself (being numerical) will be exact.
To measure the pink noise, you could use JAPA, using the slowest
mode and the 'Proportional' frequency response.
To get the correct response at HF, you really need a preamp with the
correct input impedance (50 kOhm for most cartridges, usually less
for 'moving coil' types).
But the final adjustments probably will be arrived at by listening,
and making some gentle response changes. For this, JAMIN is excellent.
--
FA
6909
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linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
40 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Alfons Adriaensen -
Chris Cannam -
fons adriaensen -
Fred Gleason -
Jan Depner -
Jussi Laako -
Klaus Kosten -
Loki Davison -
Paul Coccoli -
Paul Davis -
Richard Smith -
Steve Harris