27 Jun
2005
27 Jun
'05
8:11 a.m.
Greetings,
you may have seen the recent mail on this list looking for an author
doing a LADSPA article in a german Linux magazine; I've decided to
step in.
Now, while I do have some knowledge of the technical nature of LADSPA
I can't truthfully say I know all the plugins and hosts out there as
well as they deserve.
So, I'd love to hear from you: what do you write or use (hosts and
plugins, realtime or offline, a shameless plug for your efforts is
welcome too!), any issues you take with it, LADSPA vs. VST, the DSSI
expansion etc etc; in short, anything you find worth noting is
appreciated.
Thanks, Tim
27 Jun
27 Jun
9:23 a.m.
On Mon, Jun 27, 2005 at 12:06:10PM +0200, Tim Goetze wrote:
So, I'd love to hear from you: what do you write or use (hosts and
plugins, realtime or offline, a shameless plug for your efforts is
welcome too!), any issues you take with it, LADSPA vs. VST, the DSSI
expansion etc etc; in short, anything you find worth noting is
appreciated.
I use the great modular synth Om (http://www.nongnu.org/om-synth/) that
comes with a small numer of internal modules for i/o, but realies on
ladspa and dssi plugins for everything else.
Currentyl it's all about sound synthesis for me, but later on I might
try doing modular effects. For simple things like just a reverb I prefer
to use a fx slot in MusE.
Using Om as engine, there's Lachlan 'Loki' Davison's Smack drum
synthesizer (http://smack.berlios.de/). He's working on LADSPAs for
physical modeling handdrums. I guess you don't find something like that
as VST.
Having installed almost all plugins I could get, plugin selection
dialogs tend to be bothersome to use becuase of the long lists.
So I worked with Dave Robillard on the conception of a better
selection dialog, which he has implemented in part by now. But the
most important feature is present: incremental filtering of the
plugin list for a string in the name, type (ladspa, dssi, internal)
library or label. So for example, i start typing and with each letter
the list shortens, until "prod" result in 3 entries for Signal
Product with its variants. Every host developer should take a look
at and consider to copy this functionality.
In the context of modular synthesis, it's a bit bothersome to have
the same plugins in different versions for being equipped with
audio or control rate ports. It would be so great to just switch
between the rates.
With oscillators one never knows before trying, if an audio
frequency port works with v/oct or not.
With DSSi the only problem coming to my mind now is the GUIs taking
ages to appear on screen.
While ladspa control dialogs tend to be ugly, and things like having
sliders for boolean values sucks, I can't say i miss plugin GUIs like
I got to know while using Cubase VST much. Inconsistent eye-candy
nonsense and useless big marketing labels everywhere ...
Cheers,
Thorsten Wilms
12:05 p.m.
[Thorsten Wilms]
I use the great modular synth Om
(http://www.nongnu.org/om-synth/) that
comes with a small numer of internal modules for i/o, but realies on
ladspa and dssi plugins for everything else.
Currentyl it's all about sound synthesis for me, but later on I might
try doing modular effects. For simple things like just a reverb I prefer
to use a fx slot in MusE.
[...]
Thanks, that was very informative to read, just what I had hoped for.
On a sidenote, I agree LADSPA control ports are slightly awkward in
actual use. While you can improve the situation a bit on the host side
(usually less on the plugin side), it isn't at all easy to find simple
and effective solutions that work equally well for all plugins. And
'clever' solutions are usually the first to break ... :)
More experiences, please? Anything is appreciated!
Thanks, Tim
2:17 p.m.
So, I'd love to hear from you: what do you write
or use
(hosts and plugins, realtime or offline, a shameless plug
for your efforts is welcome too!), any issues you take with
it, LADSPA vs. VST, the DSSI expansion etc etc; in short,
anything you find worth noting is appreciated.
I enjoy jack-rack with some EQ, chorus and reverb really a
great fun when plugging in my acoustic guitar.
LADSPAS in ardour are really cool as well as using LADSPAS in
synths like ams or om directly (and om does use them
excessively).
I agree that the GUI interfaces for LADSPAs are sometimes
suboptimal, but this is due to the name of LAD_S_PAs.
Concerning DSSIs I'd like to see some cool ones popping up.
Best regards
ce
28 Jun
28 Jun
1:21 p.m.
[Christoph Eckert]
I enjoy jack-rack with some EQ, chorus and reverb
really a
great fun when plugging in my acoustic guitar.
LADSPAS in ardour are really cool as well as using LADSPAS in
synths like ams or om directly (and om does use them
excessively).
I agree that the GUI interfaces for LADSPAs are sometimes
suboptimal, but this is due to the name of LAD_S_PAs.
Yes, simple is nice. However, the API's excessive verbosity and the
1.1 kludges sometimes tempt me to expand the S into other, more
pejorative words.
At least it works reasonably well, and thanks to Steve, Fons, Tom and
all you unsung heroes out there it has become a meaningful standard.
Concerning DSSIs I'd like to see some cool ones
popping up.
Me too! :) I think we'll be getting there over time though.
Thanks for your input. Any more takers?
Cheers, Tim
1:36 p.m.
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 05:16:15 +0200, Tim Goetze wrote:
[Christoph Eckert]
Thats one point of view, but actually the LADSPA API is still pretty
cleen, in the grand scheme of things. Though it could be better of
course.
- Steve
I enjoy jack-rack with some EQ, chorus and reverb
really a
great fun when plugging in my acoustic guitar.
LADSPAS in ardour are really cool as well as using LADSPAS in
synths like ams or om directly (and om does use them
excessively).
I agree that the GUI interfaces for LADSPAs are sometimes
suboptimal, but this is due to the name of LAD_S_PAs.
Yes, simple is nice. However, the API's excessive verbosity and the
1.1 kludges sometimes tempt me to expand the S into other, more
pejorative words. 
1:59 p.m.
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 17:16 +0200, Tim Goetze wrote:
[Christoph Eckert]
Hi Tim!
A few words from a high verbosity synth maker with a few hundred too
many variables.
There is a way out! Yes really, and it is simple.
I propopse: "Virtual Simplified Synthesizers" (VSS?), where the essense
is the grouping of parameters together to produce something that is as
easy and productive as a "Polysix" or "Juno 6".
Looking at the hardware landscape, I see 8+1 sliders combined with 8
knobs is a common feature for midi controller keyboards. Some have more
and a few have slightly less.
The midi standard already have a variation on this theme geared at
adapting a fixed patch to some musical environment.
I enjoy jack-rack with some EQ, chorus and reverb
really a
great fun when plugging in my acoustic guitar.
LADSPAS in ardour are really cool as well as using LADSPAS in
synths like ams or om directly (and om does use them
excessively).
I agree that the GUI interfaces for LADSPAs are sometimes
suboptimal, but this is due to the name of LAD_S_PAs.
Yes, simple is nice. However, the API's excessive verbosity and the
1.1 kludges sometimes tempt me to expand the S into other, more
pejorative words.
At least it works reasonably well, and thanks to Steve, Fons, Tom and
all you unsung heroes out there it has become a meaningful standard.
Concerning DSSIs I'd like to see some cool
ones popping up.
Me too! :) I think we'll be getting there over time though.
Thanks for your input. Any more takers?
Cheers, Tim
--
2:34 p.m.
Am Dienstag, 28. Juni 2005 17:59 schrieb Jens M Andreasen:
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 17:16 +0200, Tim Goetze wrote:
> [Christoph Eckert]
>
> > I enjoy jack-rack with some EQ, chorus and reverb really a
> > great fun when plugging in my acoustic guitar.
> >
> > LADSPAS in ardour are really cool as well as using LADSPAS in
> > synths like ams or om directly (and om does use them
> > excessively).
> >
> > I agree that the GUI interfaces for LADSPAs are sometimes
> > suboptimal, but this is due to the name of LAD_S_PAs.
>
> Yes, simple is nice. However, the API's excessive verbosity and the
> 1.1 kludges sometimes tempt me to expand the S into other, more
> pejorative words.
>
A simple addition would be, that if the plugin has a parameter named "gui
on/off",
the ladspa host should only display this button instead of a hunderd
parameters. The pluginmaker usually knows of a better interface.
Ralf
2:55 p.m.
A simple addition would be, that if the plugin has a
parameter named "gui
on/off",
the ladspa host should only display this button instead of a hunderd
parameters. The pluginmaker usually knows of a better interface.
That's basically DSSI (although there is no explicit "gui on/off"
button, and the parameters are still available to the host).
--
Lars Luthman
PGP key: http://www.d.kth.se/~d00-llu/pgp_key.php
Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E
29 Jun
29 Jun
7:35 a.m.
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 06:55:39PM +0200, Lars Luthman wrote:
The specification supports GUI on/off (IIRC), though the hosts dont have
to offer it.
- Steve
A simple
addition would be, that if the plugin has a parameter named "gui
on/off",
the ladspa host should only display this button instead of a hunderd
parameters. The pluginmaker usually knows of a better interface.
That's basically DSSI (although there is no explicit "gui on/off"
button, and the parameters are still available to the host).
7:50 a.m.
On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 10:35 +0100, Steve Harris wrote:
On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 06:55:39PM +0200, Lars Luthman
wrote:
The specification supports GUI on/off (IIRC), though the hosts dont have
to offer it.
Right, I meant to say 'there is no explicit "gui on/off" _parameter_'
as
in a LADSPA control port. The host can of course show and hide the GUI
by sending it /show and /hide OSC commands (or just not start the GUI in
the first place).
--
Lars Luthman
PGP key: http://www.d.kth.se/~d00-llu/pgp_key.php
Fingerprint: FCA7 C790 19B9 322D EB7A E1B3 4371 4650 04C7 7E2E
A simple
addition would be, that if the plugin has a parameter named "gui
on/off",
the ladspa host should only display this button instead of a hunderd
parameters. The pluginmaker usually knows of a better interface.
That's basically DSSI (although there is no explicit "gui on/off"
button, and the parameters are still available to the host).
7082
days inactive
7084
days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Christoph Eckert -
Jens M Andreasen -
Lars Luthman -
Ralf Beck -
Steve Harris -
Thorsten Wilms -
Tim Goetze