On Tue, 2006-02-21 at 17:23 -0800, Kjetil S. Matheussen wrote: Because you are taking someone's property without paying them for it. If I create something it is my right to sell it or refuse to sell it to anyone. I mean that I would not distribute my software in a country that did not have copyright law, because a powerful corporation in such a place could take my GPL'ed code and put it in a proprietary product, or take my proprietary code withoput paying me for it. Just like I would not park my car somewhere where it could be legally stolen (or driven off in, or borrowed, or whatever you call it). Lee

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006, Kjetil S. Matheussen wrote: Work is work regardless of it's type. You cannot think that you use just a copy of someone's work when it's in form of "intellectual property". Instead you are using part of the whole work. Intellectual property is not somathing that drops from the heaven. When you use intellectual property somebody has spent maybe years on creating it. He expects to get paid for that work. Since the price of a copy cannot be too high he would expect to sell certain number of copies (say N). If you are using a "copy" of the work you in fact have stolen 1/Nth of the time author spent when creating it. If you run out from barber's shop without paying it's very clearly a crime. You have stolen 1/N of barber's monthly salary. Is there anything that makes 1/Nth if artist's or programmer's salary less criminal than stealing 1/Nth of barber's salary? If you don't like the model of selling intellectual property then your moral right is to refuse using such work. But I don't think you have any rights to use the work without paying. Best regards, Hannu ----- Hannu Savolainen (hannu(a)opensound.com) http://www.opensound.com (Open Sound System (OSS)) http://www.compusonic.fi (Finnish OSS pages) OH2GLH QTH: Karkkila, Finland LOC: KP20CM

On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 13:13 +0000, Immanuel Litzroth wrote: They are both guilty, as they both ran out. And this is a pretty good argument that the government should not subsidize barbers ;-) Lee

On Tue, 2006-02-21 at 17:23 -0800, Kjetil S. Matheussen wrote: I just can't resist this. Please send me a copy of your latest song, novel, whatever. I'll post it on the internet with my name as author then we'll come back to this discussion of why Lee and I think that copyright infringement is stealing. Is this really that difficult to understand??? -- Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner The Fuzzy Dice http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/fuzzy.html "As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously." Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744

On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 06:14 +0000, peter wrote: This is a false dichotomy. I'm not worried - I think DRM will fail in the marketplace. Lee

On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 01:23 -0500, Lee Revell wrote: Damn, Lee, we're agreeing on everything except real-time. This is not normal for us ;-) -- Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner The Fuzzy Dice http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/fuzzy.html "As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously." Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744

On Sat, 2006-02-25 at 19:19 -0500, Lee Revell wrote: See. There I go, agreeing with you again ;-) -- Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner The Fuzzy Dice http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/fuzzy.html "As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously." Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744

at the same time as getting DRM, a flourishing array of unrestricted material as well. plus the good stuff still comes out on vinyl first anyway... when seeing DRM as one of many components in an increasing police-state-ization, the inability to copy an already-lossy copy of some commercial music seems rather trivial. since there are much greater ills going on with only a fringe/marginal level of disgust, i doubt there will be enough disdain against DRM to produce any kind of traffic wrt new linux or CC activity among those who dont already use it, but who knows. maybe 'old money' really does like shooting itself in the foot (when not peppering the face of its hunting partners).. it was thriving a lot more before DRM was a glimpse in any Orwell reader's eye

"Jan Depner" <eviltwin69(a)cableone.net> writes: That is plagiarism (maybe) mixed with copyright violation. And I'll send you my latest novel "Why I am a blathering Idiot" this week. Feel free. Immanuel

"Arnold Krille" <arnold.krille(a)gmail.com> writes: You seem to be alone in this opinion. Good luck. Immanuel * the act of appropriating the literary composition of another author, or excerpts, ideas, or passages therefrom, and passing the material off as one's own creation. ucblibraries.colorado.edu/about/glossary.htm * The false presentation of someone else's writing as one's own. In the case of copyrighted work, plagiarism is illegal. www.brochure-design.com/brochure-design-publishing-terms.html * Copying someone else's work and then passing it off as one's own. www.morehead-st.edu/units/library/technology/glossary.html * Taking, using, and passing off as your own, the ideas or words or work of another. www.web-ezy.com/cit/main/webzglos.htm * The willful act of presenting another person's work as one's own. www.athabascau.ca/handbook/glossary.htm * is using another person's ideas or creative work without giving credit to that person. It includes: www.cgcc.cc.or.us/Library/lib-instruction/define-terms.htm * To plagiarize is to take and use another person's thoughts, writings or inventions as one's own, without acknowledging or giving the source of the ideas and expressions. www.umanitoba.ca/student/handbook/sayp.html * Plagiarism is presenting someone else’s work as if it were your own, whether you mean to or not. ‘Someone else’s work’ means anything that is not your own idea, even if it is presented in your own style. It includes material from books, journals or any other printed source, the work of other students or staff, information from the Internet, software programs and other electronic material, designs and ideas. It also includes the organization or structuring of any such material. ... www.vuw.ac.nz/home/glossary/ * Plagiarism usually uses a slightly varied brand name. The products hidden behind these names do sometimes not even exist in the assortment of the OEM. www.secutag.com/glossary.htm * The submission by a student of the words, ideas, images, or data of another person as the student's own in any academic writing, essay, thesis, research project, or assignment in a course or program of study. www.registrar.ualberta.ca/calendar/Glossary/Information/255.html * A form of cheating by means of the unacknowledged, literal reproduction of ideas and material of other persons in the guise of new and original work. See Policy on Academic Integrity. web.uvic.ca/calendar2005/CAL/TUintC.html * is the passing off as your own, the work of others'. Original sources are not given credit. fixedreference.org/en/20040424/wikipedia/Information_science_glossary_of_te… * Presenting the words or ideas of someone else as your own without proper acknowledgement of the source. www.sunysb.edu/library/tutorial/glossary/ * A form of cheating in which the work of someone else is offered as one’s own. The language or ideas thus taken from another may range from isolated formulae, sentences, or paragraphs, to entire articles copied from printed sources, speeches, software, or the work of other students. www.ipfw.edu/academics/regulations/definitions.shtml * The theft of ideas or of written passages or works, where these are passed off as one’s own work without acknowledgement of their true origin. www.bolton.ac.uk/learning/bissto/glossary/ * Taking information from another source and passing it off as your own. This may be done by not giving credit for a quote or a passage of information or by deliberately copying a written work or downloading a paper from the Internet. www.wcu.edu/library/researchref/Glossary.htm * Failure to give the source of a quotation or paraphrase in which the language, thoughts, or ideas of another person are used as one's own. (Unit 8> Giving Credit Where Credit is Due) www.usg.edu/galileo/skills/ollc_glossary.html * An academic malpractice. Plagiarism is the use of the ideas, words or findings of others without acknowledging them as such. To plagiarise is to give the impression that the student has written, thought or discovered something that he or she has in fact borrowed from someone else without acknowledging this in an appropriate manner. www.keele.ac.uk/depts/aa/regulationshandbook/sectiond.htm * To appropriate the writings, graphic representations or ideas of another person and represent them as one's own, (that is, without proper attribution). Plagiarism is a form of intellectual property violation. www.unmc.edu/ethics/words.html * Copying another person's work - claiming it as yours - without written acknowledgment to the original writer. Plagiarism is cause for dismissal in most universities. This page discusses UMD's policies. www.d.umn.edu/lib/reference/skills/vocab.html * Using the ideas or words of others without acknowledging the source. This is true even if the ideas of someone else are paraphrased or summarized. In scholarly research, plagiarism is considered unethical and dishonest. www.pddoc.com/copyright/glossary.htm * Taking ideas or content from an author and portraying those ideas or content as your own. www.library.wwu.edu/ref/howtoguides/glossary.html * Passing off someone else's work as your own. You must follow certain guidelines to properly acknowledge the use of other people's ideas in your work. The guidelines vary by academic discipline and by institution, and you should ask your instructor if you have any questions about the proper citation of sources. This is considered a serious offense at every institution, and can result in permanent expulsion from the class, and in some cases from the college. Cite your sources properly! www.netnet.org/students/student%20glossary.htm * You must cite all sources used in a particular work. If you do not acknowledge these sources, then you are plagiarising their work. Plagiarism is defined as the taking, using, and passing off as your own, the ideas or words of another. It is a very serious academic offence, and may result in your work being failed automatically. www.rmit.edu.au/browse/Our%20Organisation%2FRMIT%20University%20Library%2FI… * Plagiarism is the use of someone else’s work without giving that person the proper credit or no attribution at all (-Y΄Important Terms‘). www.uah.edu/library/turnitin/studentterm.htm * a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work * the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn * Plagiarism refers to the use of another's ideas, information, language, or writing, when done without proper acknowledgment of the original source. Essential to an act of plagiarism is an element of dishonesty in attempting to pass off the plagiarised work as original. Plagiarism is not necessarily the same as copyright infringement, which occurs when one violates copyright law. ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism

On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 14:39 +0000, Immanuel Litzroth wrote: Let me cut out the useless information and point out to you that without copyright there is no plagiarism. If you place your work in the public domain I am free to use any or all of it in any work I do without attribution. Immoral? Yes. Unethical? Yes. Downright mean and nasty? Yes. Illegal? No. -- Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner The Fuzzy Dice http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/fuzzy.html "As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously." Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744

On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 13:21 +0000, Immanuel Litzroth wrote: Your lack of talent isn't really my problem. Oh, BTW, the word is "blithering". -- Jan 'Evil Twin' Depner The Fuzzy Dice http://myweb.cableone.net/eviltwin69/fuzzy.html "As we enjoy great advantages from the invention of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously." Benjamin Franklin, on declining patents offered by the governor of Pennsylvania for his "Pennsylvania Fireplace", c. 1744