24 Sep
2003
24 Sep
'03
8:14 a.m.
Hello. Can anyone report what is going on with the EU software patents?
How they would affect immediately the audio and graphics development
we are doing? Xine? Sodipodi? Others?
Yesterday news broadcasting made not a big case how EU software
patents affects us. They were more conserned about how companies'
money escapes from research and development to the patent lawyers
when companies *have to* start patenting. (It looks like professional
politicians do not realize that nobody forces to patent anything.)
Other worry was that then big companies collects patent portfolios
and thus puts small companies to trouble. Again, no worry about
us.
It was only at evening news that one channel mentioned Linux,
but no politicians seemed to worry about Linux or us.
-*-
I would like to propose the following: if EU gets the software
patents, then should non-profit open source community and non-profit
academic researchers get patents for free. Then we would be in
equally competitive situation. IMHO, the current patent system
discriminate us.
Patenteer for sure use anything we develop, but for sure they are
protecting even triviallest "invention".
Please, don't say we have *choosed* not to patent anything. I have
choosed not to patent only because there is no income in writing
free software. I have invented tens of non-trivial and trivial
techniques. It would have been great if the free/open source
community would have a 20 years monopoly for these techniques.
(As a non-profit institution we cannot get royalties from the
patent, right? We would use them to block commercial products
for using the techniques.)
Best regards,
Juhana
24 Sep
24 Sep
9:38 a.m.
On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 12:59:32PM +0300, Juhana Sadeharju wrote:
I would like to propose the following: if EU gets the
software
patents, then should non-profit open source community and non-profit
academic researchers get patents for free. Then we would be in
equally competitive situation. IMHO, the current patent system
discriminate us.
That doesnt help. The basic problem (AFAIK) is that if a big company gets
a patenent covering something youre working on (even if you have prior
art) there nothing you can do about it, if they take you to court you cant
afford to fight them and you will either have to give in or go bankrupt.
- Steve
11:24 a.m.
On Wednesday 24 September 2003 05:59, Juhana Sadeharju wrote:
They were more conserned about how companies'
money escapes from research and development to the patent lawyers
when companies *have to* start patenting. (It looks like professional
politicians do not realize that nobody forces to patent anything.)
Certainly, nobody is "forced" to take out a patent, in the sense that there is
no *legally* compelling reason to do so. However, if you are operating in a
business envrionment where your competitors routinely patent techniques, the
result will be that you will end up having to do so as well, if only to
protect your own work from being co-opted by others and then denied to you on
the basis of some bogus patent claim. That being the case, the concerns
expressed about funds "escaping" to attorneys sound pretty much on the mark.
It'd be a bonanza for patent lawyers.
Juhana, would you happen to have any pointers to the media coverage on this?
It's been a non-issue in the North American media.
Cheers!
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Director of Broadcast Software Development |
| Salem Radio Labs | http://www.salemradiolabs.com/ |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| It is one thing to praise discipline, and another to submit to it. |
| -- Cervantes |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
12:09 p.m.
Juhana, would you happen to have any pointers to the
media coverage on this?
It's been a non-issue in the North American media.
http://swpat.ffii.org/
cheers
--
Tim Orford
1:52 p.m.
Hallo,
Juhana Sadeharju hat gesagt: // Juhana Sadeharju wrote:
Hello. Can anyone report what is going on with the EU
software patents?
How they would affect immediately the audio and graphics development
we are doing? Xine? Sodipodi? Others?
I suppose you wouldn't be allowed to control one oscillator's
frequency with the output of another oscillator using more than about
10 Hz because that is Frequency Modulation and Yamaha has a patent on
that. But I'm no lawyer.
ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
2:59 p.m.
On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 05:36:59PM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo,
Juhana Sadeharju hat gesagt: // Juhana Sadeharju wrote:
Oh that's just absurd. What are they going to do?
Sue John Chowning who claims to have invented FM audio synthesis
way back in the 70s?
Sue MIT, who have FM opcodes in csound?
Sue every radio station in the world?
--
Paul Winkler
http://www.slinkp.com
Look! Up in the sky! It's DARK THIGH WEARING A HAT!
(random hero from isometric.spaceninja.com)
Hello. Can anyone report what is going on with
the EU software patents?
How they would affect immediately the audio and graphics development
we are doing? Xine? Sodipodi? Others?
I suppose you wouldn't be allowed to control one oscillator's
frequency with the output of another oscillator using more than about
10 Hz because that is Frequency Modulation and Yamaha has a patent on
that. But I'm no lawyer.
4:22 p.m.
On Wednesday 24 September 2003 12:51, Paul Winkler wrote:
Sue every radio station in the world?
Then again, Major Armstrong did give RCA a hard time back in the 50s.
Slightly different baseband frequency range, though... :)
Cheers!
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Director of Broadcast Software Development |
| Salem Radio Labs | http://www.salemradiolabs.com/ |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WASHINGTON DC: Fifty square miles almost completely surrounded by |
| reality. |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------|
5:18 p.m.
Hallo,
Paul Winkler hat gesagt: // Paul Winkler wrote:
On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 05:36:59PM +0200, Frank
Barknecht wrote:
I should have added a :) smiley, because this was intended to be
absurd or to show, how absurd software patents can get. Everyone I
guess knows that Amazon patented the "On-Click" method. I wanted to
say that those things exist in music software, too. Maybe FM synthesis
is not a good example, because this technique is actually more complex
than Amazon's.
I suppose you wouldn't be allowed to control
one oscillator's
frequency with the output of another oscillator using more than about
10 Hz because that is Frequency Modulation and Yamaha has a patent on
that. But I'm no lawyer.
Oh that's just absurd. What are they going to do? Sue John Chowning who claims to have invented FM audio
synthesis
way back in the 70s?
I now did a bit more research on that and I was a bit wrong: The
patent is Standford's and Yamaha is a licensee. Also this patent seems
to have expired 1995. But not without achieving this:
"Stanford's FM synthesis patent, which expired two years ago, was the
second biggest money maker in campus history. It brought in more than
$20 million."
(http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/report/news/july16/sondiusxg.html)
I think, several Waveguide patents also developed at Stanford are
still valid. Also the documentation of Perry Cooks STK says:
"The basic Chowning/Stanford FM patent expired in 1995, but there
exist follow-on patents, mostly assigned to Yamaha. If you are of the
type who should worry about this (making money) worry away."
Sue every radio station in the world?
I think, the patent only covered the use of FM in a musical
instrument.
ciao
--
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
5:22 p.m.
Hello. Can
anyone report what is going on with the EU software patents?
How they would affect immediately the audio and graphics development
we are doing? Xine? Sodipodi? Others?
I suppose you wouldn't be allowed to control one oscillator's
frequency with the output of another oscillator using more than about
10 Hz because that is Frequency Modulation and Yamaha has a patent on
that. But I'm no lawyer.
7726
days inactive
7726
days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
8 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Fernando Pablo Lopez-Lezcano -
Frank Barknecht -
Frederick Gleason -
Juhana Sadeharju -
Paul Winkler -
Steve Harris -
Tim Orford