Fwd: LS licensing (was: LV2 " isn't well thought out ?" LV2 in the Reaper sequencer)
29 Jan
2008
29 Jan
'08
8:44 a.m.
Hehe, succinctly put Christian.
Just doing a quick count of all the lines that have been written about this,
and the sometime belligerent enthusiasm attacking LS and questioning their
integrity because they're perceived as not being 'pure' by interpretation,
by some of you, and just since i've been here, there seems to be a lot of
code, sorry i mean text, written.
Makes me wonder just what the incentive is, to batter this to death over and
over again, instead of being admired for the quality and skill of coding
most of you have already proved you are capable of.
To offer a counterweight to this, have all you craftsmen considered getting
together in a concentrated team effort, free of politics, and indulge in an
intense push to expand Jack and Jackdmp (for example) to incorporate kernel
level audio, with modules, and do away with alsa altogether? Now that WOULD
be something to talk about, and a wonderful incentive for developers to come
together as one, with a common goal for the greater good. Jack is already
'king of the empire', in my humble opinion, and would expand it's grip on
the planet even further with this final step towards ONE complete linux
audio and midi solution.
I live in hope that you chaps will take a deep breath, and use those
obviously competent typing skills you're exercising at the moment, in
writing more excellent code that i can use, and continue to admire and
respect you for.
Alex.
On Jan 29, 2008 1:42 PM, Christian Schoenebeck <cuse(a)users.sourceforge.net>
wrote:
Am Dienstag, 29. Januar 2008 06:25:31 schrieben Sie:
On Sat, 2008-01-26 at 03:16 +0000, Christian
Schoenebeck wrote:
Right, just by the majority of e.g. all Windows and OS X users, hmm who
reflect the majority of all users anyway. And right, I forgot I'm
promoting a
product. Thanks Dave for enlighten us about the truth! Now I clearly see
there is only white and nothing else than white! Well, maybe black, but
the
black ones are evil by definition and don't count.
Thanks my Pope! How could I ever have doubts in your holy inerrable words.
CU
Christian
_______________________________________________
Linux-audio-dev mailing list
Linux-audio-dev(a)lists.linuxaudio.org
http://lists.linuxaudio.org/mailman/listinfo/linux-audio-dev
So get it: there is NOT only one definition of
the term "open source"
when standing alone. Like with many unspecific short terms, different
people have different opinions of those short terms.
Yours just coincidentally is shared by virtually nobody and it just so
happens that this arbitrary definiton matches exactly your software
which you wish to call 'open source' for PR reasons. 
29 Jan
29 Jan
10:16 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: LS licensing (was: LV2 " isn't well thought out ?" LV2 in the Reaper sequencer)
On Tue, 2008-01-29 at 15:44 +0300, alex stone wrote:
To offer a counterweight to this, have all you craftsmen considered
getting together in a concentrated team effort, free of politics, and
indulge in an intense push to expand Jack and Jackdmp (for example) to
incorporate kernel level audio, with modules, and do away with alsa
altogether? Now that WOULD be something to talk about, and a wonderful
incentive for developers to come together as one, with a common goal
for the greater good. Jack is already 'king of the empire', in my
humble opinion, and would expand it's grip on the planet even further
with this final step towards ONE complete linux audio and midi
solution.
PulseAudio is the ONE complete Linux audio solution (don't know about
MIDI). It is also cross-platform, which is nice.
JACK was never designed to be easy to use for desktop and office
productivity apps; PulseAudio is and has interfaces to/from JACK. The
only thing that JACK has "wanted" (to the extent that an
API/library/server can want anything) is for audio programming in
general to move to a pull model (driven by the audio interface) the way
it is with CoreAudio and ASIO, and away from the push model (driven by
the desire of the application). Even this is not strictly necessary if
the application doesn't care about latency.
Nothing would be gained by putting JACK "inside" the kernel. You seem to
be forgetting that the hard part of audio i/o is actually interacting
with the h/w devices. As much as there may be many reasons to use as
little of the ALSA user-space API as possible, something still has to
handle all the hardware. ALSA does that pretty well.
10:28 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: LS licensing (was: LV2 " isn't well thought out ?" LV2 in the Reaper sequencer)
Paul,
I'll be the first to admit i know little about Pulseaudio, and what it can
do. And i mean no offence or dismissal of Alsa and it's role.
So where will Pulse Audio take us in the future? Jack's been outstanding for
me, and as a means of porting and moving audio, and i hope midi around, i've
never found better. My...'enthusiasm ' is based on my experiences so far
with Jack and Jackdmp, and they are good. Frankly, they've been a delight to
use, and make the working day a great deal more pleasant, and less hassle.
What will Pulseaudio do that will make the process of using audio and midi
easier and more efficient?
Alex.
On Jan 29, 2008 5:15 PM, Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> wrote:
On Tue, 2008-01-29 at 15:44 +0300, alex stone wrote:
To offer a counterweight to this, have all you craftsmen considered
getting together in a concentrated team effort, free of politics, and
indulge in an intense push to expand Jack and Jackdmp (for example) to
incorporate kernel level audio, with modules, and do away with alsa
altogether? Now that WOULD be something to talk about, and a wonderful
incentive for developers to come together as one, with a common goal
for the greater good. Jack is already 'king of the empire', in my
humble opinion, and would expand it's grip on the planet even further
with this final step towards ONE complete linux audio and midi
solution.
PulseAudio is the ONE complete Linux audio solution (don't know about
MIDI). It is also cross-platform, which is nice.
JACK was never designed to be easy to use for desktop and office
productivity apps; PulseAudio is and has interfaces to/from JACK. The
only thing that JACK has "wanted" (to the extent that an
API/library/server can want anything) is for audio programming in
general to move to a pull model (driven by the audio interface) the way
it is with CoreAudio and ASIO, and away from the push model (driven by
the desire of the application). Even this is not strictly necessary if
the application doesn't care about latency.
Nothing would be gained by putting JACK "inside" the kernel. You seem to
be forgetting that the hard part of audio i/o is actually interacting
with the h/w devices. As much as there may be many reasons to use as
little of the ALSA user-space API as possible, something still has to
handle all the hardware. ALSA does that pretty well.
10:56 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: LS licensing (was: LV2 " isn't well thought out ?" LV2 in the Reaper sequencer)
On Tue, 2008-01-29 at 17:28 +0300, alex stone wrote:
Paul,
I'll be the first to admit i know little about Pulseaudio, and what it
can do. And i mean no offence or dismissal of Alsa and it's role.
So where will Pulse Audio take us in the future? Jack's been
outstanding for me, and as a means of porting and moving audio, and i
hope midi around, i've never found better. My...'enthusiasm ' is based
on my experiences so far with Jack and Jackdmp, and they are good.
Frankly, they've been a delight to use, and make the working day a
great deal more pleasant, and less hassle.
What will Pulseaudio do that will make the process of using audio and
midi easier and more efficient?
PulseAudio is an infrastructure for doing lots of things with audio that
JACK doesn't touch. Its primarily aimed at non-pro-audio/music
applications. It is there to try to solve the mess caused by the number
of different APIs for audio on Linux. At this time, it doesn't offer
what JACK offers (and it may never do that). If you are a
pro-audio/music oriented user, PulseAudio itself is not going to be of
much interest.
11:25 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: LS licensing
Paul Davis <paul(a)linuxaudiosystems.com> writes:
At this time, it doesn't offer what JACK offers
(and it may never do
that).
There is the talk about moving jack into pulse;).
--
Esben Stien is b0ef@e s a
http://www. s t n m
irc://irc. b - i . e/%23contact
sip:b0ef@ e e
jid:b0ef@ n n
30 Jan
30 Jan
7:51 a.m.
New subject: Fwd: LS licensing (was: LV2 " isn't well thought out ?" LV2 in the Reaper sequencer)
On Tue, Jan 29, 2008 at 09:15:50AM -0500, Paul Davis wrote:
The only thing that JACK has "wanted" (to
the extent that an
API/library/server can want anything) is for audio programming in
general to move to a pull model (driven by the audio interface) the way
it is with CoreAudio and ASIO, and away from the push model (driven by
the desire of the application).
This 'driven by the desire of the application' is an illusion.
Any app that produces or consumes a continuous audio stream
is sooner or later driven by the sound hardware in some way,
no matter how you twist or turn it to hide that fact. There's
no escape from that, unless you have infinite buffers or
adaptive resampling. It doesn't even matter if you use
callbacks, blocking read/write, or whatever.
The only thing that varies is the amount of buffering.
It shouldn't be so difficult to create a lib that solves
that problem for non-realtime apps using JACK once and
for all.
The real problem of 'deskop apps' w.r.t. JACK is IMHO more
the fact that JACK doesn't provide access to some parts of
some soundcards, e.g. multimedia codecs and the like.
--
FA
Laboratorio di Acustica ed Elettroacustica
Parma, Italia
Lascia la spina, cogli la rosa.
6137
days inactive
6138
days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
5 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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alex stone -
Esben Stien -
Fons Adriaensen -
Paul Davis