17 Sep
2002
17 Sep
'02
8:57 p.m.
david(a)gardena.net writes:
you can't ask units about things,
unless you have two cables - and that's not really part of the
standard
Actually, it is. The System-Exclusive Universal ID command
space is general-purpose functionality that, in many cases,
assumes units talking to each other via cable pairs. See:
http://crystal.apana.org.au/~ghansper/midi_introduction/midi_sysex_universa…
for details. The simplest example is the Generic Handshaking
instructions, which do flow-control for big Sample Dumps via
a set of commands implementing ACK, NAK, WAIT, EOF, etc.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Lazzaro -- Research Specialist -- CS Division -- EECS -- UC Berkeley
lazzaro [at] cs [dot] berkeley [dot] edu www.cs.berkeley.edu/~lazzaro
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
17 Sep
17 Sep
10:58 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] LADSPA and TiMidity++
On Wednesday 18 September 2002 00.53, John Lazzaro wrote:
Yeah, I know about that - and indeed it is a standard, but on a level
that isn't all that interesting IMHO. (After all, it's all about
transferring mostly non-stardard data...)
I was thinking about CCs, Program Change and stuff. Is there a
standard way of asking a synth for the names of it's patches, or
which CCs are assigned to what, for example?
There's no tactile "click" when connecting a sequencer CC output to a
MIDI device CC input, if you know what I mean.
//David
.- M A I A -------------------------------------------------.
| Multimedia Application Integration Architecture |
| A Free/Open Source Plugin API for Professional Multimedia |
`---------------------------> http://www.linuxdj.com/maia/ -'
.- David Olofson -------------------------------------------.
| Audio Hacker - Open Source Advocate - Singer - Songwriter |
`-------------------------------------> http://olofson.net -'
david(a)gardena.net writes:
you can't ask units about things,
unless you have two cables - and that's not really part of the
standard
Actually, it is. The System-Exclusive Universal ID command
space is general-purpose functionality that, in many cases,
assumes units talking to each other via cable pairs. See:
http://crystal.apana.org.au/~ghansper/midi_introduction/midi_sysex_
universal.html
for details. The simplest example is the Generic Handshaking
instructions, which do flow-control for big Sample Dumps via
a set of commands implementing ACK, NAK, WAIT, EOF, etc. 
18 Sep
18 Sep
4:27 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] LADSPA and TiMidity++
On Wednesday 18 September 2002 01:50, David Olofson wrote:
I was thinking about CCs, Program Change and stuff. Is
there a
standard way of asking a synth for the names of it's patches, or
which CCs are assigned to what, for example?
I was wondering aloud to Peter (iiwusynth) about this a while ago.
You could implement this kind of stuff in SysExs quite easily and if you
could strip program names from a soundfont too it might prove even more
useful. A softsynth description databurst to the sequencer on connection
could then populate the appropriate information including soft synth
version and features.
I'd love to see this kind of interface and indeed would probably have a
go at hacking one together when I'm not so busy doing more fundamental
stuff. Of course as John points out against MIDI hardware this kind of
stuff is a lot of work (but still feasible) - with timidity and iiwusynth
we could probably come to some sort of arrangement.
B
3:39 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] LADSPA and TiMidity++
On Wednesday 18 Sep 2002 07:26, Richard Bown wrote:
On Wednesday 18 September 2002 01:50, David Olofson
wrote:
If I do go ahead with my TiMidity++ LADSPA plugin effect, I can see this being
something a software package might like to know, so I'd like to include such
a feature.
I'll leave it a while longer for more feedback and then set up a sourceforge
project, maybe.
[snip]
-- Peter
I was thinking about CCs, Program Change and
stuff. Is there a
standard way of asking a synth for the names of it's patches, or
which CCs are assigned to what, for example?
I was wondering aloud to Peter (iiwusynth) about this a while ago.
You could implement this kind of stuff in SysExs quite easily and if you
could strip program names from a soundfont too it might prove even more
useful. A softsynth description databurst to the sequencer on connection
could then populate the appropriate information including soft synth
version and features.
5:55 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] LADSPA and TiMidity++
On Wed, 2002-09-18 at 10:42, Peter L Jones wrote:
On Wednesday 18 Sep 2002 07:26, Richard Bown wrote:
If you are just looking for a SoundFont soft synth that has LADSPA
support, iiwusynth already has this. I have not used this feature yet
myself, but it is there. Of course I'm not trying to say you shouldn't
implement this for TiMidity++ :) Cheers.
Josh Green
On Wednesday 18 September 2002 01:50, David
Olofson wrote:
If I do go ahead with my TiMidity++ LADSPA plugin effect, I can see this being
something a software package might like to know, so I'd like to include such
a feature.
I'll leave it a while longer for more feedback and then set up a sourceforge
project, maybe.
[snip]
-- Peter I was thinking about CCs, Program Change and
stuff. Is there a
standard way of asking a synth for the names of it's patches, or
which CCs are assigned to what, for example?
I was wondering aloud to Peter (iiwusynth) about this a while ago.
You could implement this kind of stuff in SysExs quite easily and if you
could strip program names from a soundfont too it might prove even more
useful. A softsynth description databurst to the sequencer on connection
could then populate the appropriate information including soft synth
version and features.
4:43 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] LADSPA and TiMidity++
On Tue, 2002-09-17 at 23:26, Richard Bown wrote:
On Wednesday 18 September 2002 01:50, David Olofson
wrote:
I have also been thinking about this kind of stuff as of late and would
like to see support for retrieving this information from Swami (adding
it to iiwusynth is probably all thats needed). I've been musing over
using SysExs for custom iiwusynth features like Reverb/Chorus settings,
but it never occured to me to use SysExs for querying of patch names,
etc. I would like to be a part of this development. I did some searching
on the net for SysEx messages related to querying instrument
(program/preset/patch) names, but didn't find anything concrete as far
as a specification.
I wonder how one would go about creating such a standard? Would we need
to obtain a Manufacturer's ID for our SysEx standard? If we can find an
existing standard we could just use it (we would then be using a
companies ID). I see that a manufacturer's ID of 0x7D is listed as
"non-commercial" on one web site, and then another as educational use
only, not meant for use in distributed systems.
It might prove to be a real pain to get an ID for ourselves. Perhaps
someone in the Linux community already has one? Cheers.
Josh Green
I was thinking about CCs, Program Change and
stuff. Is there a
standard way of asking a synth for the names of it's patches, or
which CCs are assigned to what, for example?
I was wondering aloud to Peter (iiwusynth) about this a while ago.
You could implement this kind of stuff in SysExs quite easily and if you
could strip program names from a soundfont too it might prove even more
useful. A softsynth description databurst to the sequencer on connection
could then populate the appropriate information including soft synth
version and features.
I'd love to see this kind of interface and indeed would probably have a
go at hacking one together when I'm not so busy doing more fundamental
stuff. Of course as John points out against MIDI hardware this kind of
stuff is a lot of work (but still feasible) - with timidity and iiwusynth
we could probably come to some sort of arrangement.
B
5:56 p.m.
New subject: SysEx interface for softsynths [was Re: [linux-audio-dev] LADSPA and TiMidity++]
On Wednesday 18 September 2002 19:41, Josh Green wrote:
I wonder how one would go about creating such a
standard? Would we
need to obtain a Manufacturer's ID for our SysEx standard? If we can
find an existing standard we could just use it (we would then be
using a companies ID). I see that a manufacturer's ID of 0x7D is
listed as "non-commercial" on one web site, and then another as
educational use only, not meant for use in distributed systems.
Perhaps we could either approach a small company that has an ID already or
reuse one that's pretty old and likely close to defunct (again with the
owner's consent). I wonder who controls their use or if it's a case of
suck-it-and-see?
If we were going to the trouble of providing this kind of interface for
the benefit of sequencers and softsynths it'd be nice to define (and
perhaps extend) existing softsynth APIs such as the one that MuSE already
employs perhaps? Standardisation at the functional level and perhaps
defining a draft API definition could prove a worthwhile interim exercise.
B
6:26 p.m.
New subject: SysEx interface for softsynths [was Re: [linux-audio-dev] LADSPA and TiMidity++]
On Wednesday 18 September 2002 21.55, Richard Bown wrote:
[...]
If we were going to the trouble of providing this kind
of interface
for the benefit of sequencers and softsynths it'd be nice to define
(and perhaps extend) existing softsynth APIs such as the one that
MuSE already employs perhaps? Standardisation at the functional
level and perhaps defining a draft API definition could prove a
worthwhile interim exercise.
If it's going beyond the "grab patch names" level - which would make
it very cool and useful - I think it should be implemented as some
sort of binary "markup language", describing all controls and their
relations in the form of a tree or other structure. (Maybe just
nodelist style "object A affects object B", possibly with some simple
hint as to *how* A affects B; ie scale, offset, modulate etc...)
It's probably pretty hard to have a generic application deal with
Audiality scripts as anything but raw text, though... ;-)
Then again, that's just fine with me. I've never created real sounds
from scratch as quickly as with Audiality. The only feature I'm
missing is hitting F2 in cooledit (the *text* editor :-)
automatically making the synth reload and re-run the script. (I
actually did that once, sort of, by mmapping the file. It worked on
one machine, but on another, writing the file would not write the
memory buffer... *heh*)
//David
.- M A I A -------------------------------------------------.
| Multimedia Application Integration Architecture |
| A Free/Open Source Plugin API for Professional Multimedia |
`---------------------------> http://www.linuxdj.com/maia/ -'
.- David Olofson -------------------------------------------.
| Audio Hacker - Open Source Advocate - Singer - Songwriter |
`-------------------------------------> http://olofson.net -'
19 Sep
19 Sep
6:35 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: SysEx interface for softsynths [was Re: [linux-audio-dev] LADSPA and TiMidity++]
On Wed, 2002-09-18 at 12:55, Richard Bown wrote:
On Wednesday 18 September 2002 19:41, Josh Green
wrote:
It appears to be controlled by the MIDI Manufacturers Association
(http://www.midi.org). I'm not sure I really like their policies, they
don't release much information openly on the net, you have to purchase
printed copies.
I didn't see a way to contact them via email, otherwise I would inquire
as to how to proceed in getting an ID. Perhaps if it does seem like that
is the best route, we would get an ID for LAD so we can all use it and
keep a public standard document somewhere.
I don't think it would make sense to try and piggy back off of an
existing manufacturer, since even if they are defunct, they probably
wouldn't want us trashing their defined SysEx messages. There is nothing
wrong with finding an existing defined standard though and using it
(according to one MIDI web site I saw).
I wonder how one would go about creating such a
standard? Would we
need to obtain a Manufacturer's ID for our SysEx standard? If we can
find an existing standard we could just use it (we would then be
using a companies ID). I see that a manufacturer's ID of 0x7D is
listed as "non-commercial" on one web site, and then another as
educational use only, not meant for use in distributed systems.
Perhaps we could either approach a small company that has an ID already or
reuse one that's pretty old and likely close to defunct (again with the
owner's consent). I wonder who controls their use or if it's a case of
suck-it-and-see?
If we were going to the trouble of providing this kind
of interface for
the benefit of sequencers and softsynths it'd be nice to define (and
perhaps extend) existing softsynth APIs such as the one that MuSE already
employs perhaps? Standardisation at the functional level and perhaps
defining a draft API definition could prove a worthwhile interim exercise.
IIRC the softsynth in MuSE is iiwusynth. This seems silly to me
actually, since it can also be connected via the ALSA sequencer. I
suppose it doesn't really matter though, except that I have heard that
it hasn't been kept up to date with the stand alone version.
B
Cheers.
Josh Green
23 Sep
23 Sep
2:11 a.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Re: SysEx interface for softsynths [was Re: [linux-audio-dev] LADSPA and TiMidity++]
On Thu, 2002-09-19 at 21:32, Josh Green wrote:
IIRC the softsynth in MuSE is iiwusynth. This seems
silly to me
actually, since it can also be connected via the ALSA sequencer. I
suppose it doesn't really matter though, except that I have heard that
it hasn't been kept up to date with the stand alone version.
There's currently 6 softsynths in muse. There's an older iiwu-based
synth which had some old iiwu sources hacked up but which now uses
libiiwusynth, and also a newer one that also uses libiiwusynth.
Bob
--
Bob Ham: bob(a)ham.org http://pkl.net/~node
<riaa> All your rights are belong to us
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9 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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David Olofson -
John Lazzaro -
Josh Green -
Peter L Jones -
Richard Bown