16 Oct
2003
16 Oct
'03
4:13 p.m.
From my understanding, they are completely different
chips with different instruction sets. I seriously doubt the intel compiler will produce
x86-64 instructions. Not to mention the business perspective...
Taybin
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Webb <magusofthedark(a)yahoo.com>
Sent: Oct 16, 2003 11:51 AM
To:
The Linux Audio Developers' Mailing List
<linux-audio-dev(a)music.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Athlon64 .. performance boost ?
I know the Intel C++ compiler isn't free software (you
can get it free as in beer to compile open source
apps, though), but it's avail for Itanium.. I don't
know how well it works with AMD's stuff. It's my
compiler of choice.
--- Robert Jonsson <robert.jonsson(a)dataductus.se>
But... guessing is but all we can do (i guess),
until gcc (or similar?)
supports this processor well...unless they already
do so(?)...
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16 Oct
16 Oct
6:44 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Athlon64 .. performance boost ?
Taybin Rutkin wrote:
Yep Taybin is right, AMD64 and IA64 (Itanium)
instruction sets are
completely different.
Anyway Juan will soon retract his float vs int resamplers claim that int
resampling is much faster:
it depends from the CPU you use. On older CPUs it is true, but Juan and
I made some tests today while hanging out on #lad
and the Celeron P4 CPU took 4.5secs for integer resampling while it took
4.5 for float resampling.
I think the integer advantage will soon be gone (and as you see on the
P4 it becomes a disadvantage) with new generations of CPUs that are
equally fast in handling ints or floats.
floats do have the advantage that you do not need to fiddle around with
bitshifting, scaling, clipping etc.
PS: some infos about the unpleaseant surprises that await you when
running a 64bit AMD CPU on Windows:
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,112749,pg,6,00.asp
In short you have 2 choices:
- stick with 32bit Windows and have your Ferrari CPU unable to switch
gears past the 3rd out of 6 available.
Wait 2004 Q1 (I doubt billy boy will meet the deadline) for a crippled
64bit version of Windows: basically you it will require most drivers to
be ported to 64bit even trivial stuff like joystick drivers.
This means lots of compatibility issues which will convince most of the
Windows people to stick to their 32bit Windows for long time.
PS2: I see a big problem with the "schism" of the 64bit instruction sets
(between Intel Itanium and AMD64).
Basically it puts Microsoft in an uncomfortable position:
- increases the amount of development resources
- incompatibilities between Itanium and AMD 64: if you bought MS Office
for AMD64 it will not run on Itanium and viceversa.
Users will say "hey, it's always windows why is this incompatible ?"
AMD is risking too because users usually stick with the strongest one
thus it could be that when Itanium arrives on the
desktop it will eclipse the AMD64 because of these Windows
incompatibility problems.
Of course in the server domain the instruction set does not matter that
much but in the desktop field it matters alot.
What will happen in your opinion ? Will Microsoft be tempted to stick to
the Wintel paradigm or will they try to avoid it
in order to not risking loosing sales to the competition (aka Linux).
It's a complex equation I see no easy solution.
Perhaps Linux will be the salvation of AMD64 on the Desktop (if it can
get a foothold in that domain) ?
Anyway we should be grateful to the kernel developers that made Linux a
solid cross platform product that can run on
almost any CPU including Itanium and AMD 64.
cheers,
Benno
From my
understanding, they are completely different chips with different instruction sets. I
seriously doubt the intel compiler will produce x86-64 instructions. Not to mention the
business perspective...
Taybin
-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Webb <magusofthedark(a)yahoo.com>
Sent: Oct 16, 2003 11:51 AM
To:
The Linux Audio Developers' Mailing List
<linux-audio-dev(a)music.columbia.edu>
Subject: Re: [linux-audio-dev] Athlon64 .. performance boost ?
I know the Intel C++ compiler isn't free software (you
can get it free as in beer to compile open source
apps, though), but it's avail for Itanium.. I don't
know how well it works with AMD's stuff. It's my
compiler of choice.
17 Oct
17 Oct
2:42 a.m.
New subject: Getting [OT] Re: [linux-audio-dev] Athlon64 .. performance boost ?
Hi,
PS2: I see a big problem with the "schism" of the 64bit instruction sets
(between Intel Itanium and AMD64).
Basically it puts Microsoft in an uncomfortable position:
- increases the amount of development resources
- incompatibilities between Itanium and AMD 64: if you bought MS Office
for AMD64 it will not run on Itanium and viceversa.
Users will say "hey, it's always windows why is this incompatible ?"
AMD is risking too because users usually stick with the strongest one
thus it could be that when Itanium arrives on the
desktop it will eclipse the AMD64 because of these Windows
incompatibility problems.
From what I've heard there is likely not going to
be a problem. There just
won't be many desktop utilizations of Itanium. It is
simply not targetet
towards this kind of thing (which is reflected in the pricing).
Instead it is quite likely that intel will release their own take of a 64-bit
x86 cpu.... but... this will probably, once again, mean that there are two
BIG cpu's in the wild that support "similar" instructionsets. No telling
what
that might do to fragment the desktop-space...
Of course in the server domain the instruction set does not matter that
much but in the desktop field it matters alot.
What will happen in your opinion ? Will Microsoft be tempted to stick to
the Wintel paradigm or will they try to avoid it
in order to not risking loosing sales to the competition (aka Linux).
It's a complex equation I see no easy solution.
Perhaps Linux will be the salvation of AMD64 on the Desktop (if it can
get a foothold in that domain) ?
I don't know if you read about the recent flurry of live-game-cd's. When it
comes to gaming, people has always been keen on getting the latest hardware
to improve their FPS count :). In this particular situation they are in a bit
of a problem though. Window doesn't support 64-bit for another year (possibly
shorter but I doubt it).
Since Linux is already available in 64-bit versions it has started to happen
that gaming firms (especially the ones who make free games, but I'm sure
others will follow) are starting to produce linux based live-game-cd's with a
specific game preinstalled. And that game is ofcourse compiled for 64-bit to
maximize performance!
The entire concept makes me all warm inside ;-P, such a great idea.
/Robert
1:30 p.m.
New subject: [linux-audio-dev] Athlon64 .. performance boost ?
On Fri, 2003-10-17 at 01:37, Benno Senoner wrote:
- incompatibilities between Itanium and AMD 64: if
you bought MS Office
for AMD64 it will not run on Itanium and viceversa.
Users will say "hey, it's always windows why is this incompatible ?"
AMD is risking too because users usually stick with the strongest one
thus it could be that when Itanium arrives on the
desktop it will eclipse the AMD64 because of these Windows
incompatibility problems.
AMD64 architecture is performs very well with old 32-bit stuff, while
Itanium sucks on this field. Athlon64 runs old 32-bit Counter Strike OK,
Itanium doesn't... ;)
AMD64 is also getting heavy support from motherboard manufacturers while
Itanium support is absent.
Time will show, but I think AMD64 as a great platform and also makes
transition from old 32-bit apps to new 64-bit apps smooth.
--
Jussi Laako <jussi.laako(a)pp.inet.fi>
8006
days inactive
8007
days old
linux-audio-dev@lists.linuxaudio.org
3 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Benno Senoner -
Jussi Laako -
Robert Jonsson -
Taybin Rutkin